The Ruby Ridge Standoff | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW

welcome to stuff you should know a. production of iHeart. [Music]. Radio hey and welcome to the podcast I'm. Josh and there's Chuck and Jerry's here. too and this is stuff you should know. the podcast the early 9s black. helicopter. Edition yeah this is uh Ruby Ridge the. incident the standoff The Siege what do. what do you call this uh the beginning.

of the the farri right militia movement. being reborn in the United States for. sure it was huge huge yeah um it was a. huge example of government overreach it. was this researching this was really. hard man this was a hard one for me it. was just it's just such an awful story. all around it's just terrible yeah so. this is uh this occurred when I was um I. guess like a third year in college or so. uh and that was you know I was I've I've.

talked on the show before about like us. not having TV or cable and stuff and so. I wasn't as newsy then as I am now right. um but this was a big deal and I. remember this and then Waco literally. right after happening which we should do. a wakeo episode at some point too yeah. unfortunately we should uh I just. remember at the time being like wow okay. I don't think I really agree with the. the these people that are having this. stand off um but at the same time it.

looks from as an outsider like the. government is just going in guns blazing. and kind of murdering people and it. turns out both are kind of true for me. yeah for sure I mean you don't have to. sympathize with the um Weavers or any of. their supporters to still be like this. is just messed up like yeah that's what. I was saying the whole Situation's. messed up I don't agree with basically. any of their views but yeah it's just I. say we get into it everybody make up.

their own minds because it's definitely. one of those stories you know yeah so. just in the broadest two sentence. overview uh Ruby Ridge was a. standoff uh in the Ruby Ridge area of. Idaho in when did it finally go down. 92 uh yes yeah. 1992 um that was uh many many many. months long in the making uh in which. the US government uh had a standoff with. a a family of children.

a couple of adults and the rest were. basically kids oh yeah um and it ended. in uh lost lives on both sides uh when. there's absolutely no reason why it. should have and this is that story of. the Weaver family yeah um I guess you. can start back at the very beginning. when the Weaver Family itself began um. Vicki uh who would become Vicky Weaver. she was born Vicky jordison and her. husband Randall Weaver got married in. 197 71 they lived in Iowa I think Cedar.

Falls right yeah uh and she was a. secretary for Sears and robu he had just. been discharged as a Green Beret. honorably from the Army and had um. gotten a job working at the tractor. Factory for John Deere you can do a lot. worse than that so they were like a very. normal working class couple just. starting out in life yeah so this was. like you said. 1971 uh they had a daughter named Sarah. and 76 and then two more kids uh a boy.

named Samy and then a daughter named. Rachel uh all over the next six years. and those were you know there was a kid. that would come later that we'll get to. uh but around the latest 70s kind of. after the the latest uh Arab Israeli. conflict came around uh Vicki. started basically kind of thought that. was a sign of the end times the biblical. uh biblical end times she kept having. these recurring dreams of these Omens.

about uh a house on a hill where they. could be safe and hide and she thought. the end times were coming and she. started sharing this stuff with Randy. yeah and apparently it really jived with. him because he got on board as well I. hadn't seen what exactly was the impetus. that triggered all that so thanks for. clearing that up but long story short. they ended up becoming religious. extremists together and also like. apocalyptic religious extremists not not. just Garden variety religious extremists.

yeah uh enough so that they moved and. not only did they move they gave an. interview to the local paper and in Iowa. saying that they were moving and in fact. they wanted to go find a place build a. place where they could have a 300 yard. defensible Kill Zone. yeah in your local Pap no but I mean. your local paper is probably like this. is hot hot news yeah for sure uh hot off. the presses local couple moving to set.

up defensible shelter uh not here right. um they moved in 83 uh I saw 15 Acres I. saw 20 acres regardless somewhere in. that neighborhood of land with a. freshwater. spring this time they were in. Idaho um near Naples in the Ruby Ridge. area and this area had become a um just. sort of a place where if you if you. didn't trust the government if you. didn't like paying taxes if you maybe. were a member of a Christian identity.

group or white supremacist group you may. end up in this sort of rural Bara area. of Idaho at the time yeah for sure um. this is like a this it's just I think. it's still very much that way too. actually um I don't know what kicked it. off but I think it started in the 70s. and Earnest so by the time they moved. there it was it was in full swing that's. just kind of where you went and they. actually built their own home from what. I saw and pictures of it are like wow. they did a really good job it's like a. two-story nice looking cabin they build.

a bunch of out buildings they basically. built themselves a um a compound and. they did it largely using scraps and. plywood and stuff like that and they. started Living the survivalist life like. living off the land U planting. vegetables they homeschooled the kids of. course uh which was illegal by the way I. didn't know that in Idaho or in the US. in the Idaho at the time at least it was. not legal to homeschool so not saying. that that was part of their you know. illegalities but I guess technically it.

was but I think it it does kind of like. get a point across that's a little. subtle like they they couldn't have. cared less if the state sure or the. federal government told them that they. couldn't homeschool their kids that. would just be one more reason that they. hated the government and in fact one of. the um big movements in this area was. essentially like local sovereignty where. the the highest Authority in the entire. country for a specific area was the. local sheriff.

anything beyond that was fraudulent so. um so yeah they wouldn't have listened. to the state government saying they. couldn't homeschool their kids at all. yeah for sure uh didn't have power um no. technically no like official running. water I think they were able to get. water to the house uh via that spring. but you know they were living the rural. lifestyle um they took in a a young. teenage boy who had what sounds like a. really pretty awful home life his name. was Kevin Harris and he kind of came and. went for a little while and then.

eventually basically was kind of adopted. by the family and he ended up staying. there pretty much full-time at a certain. point yes so he wasn't like they didn't. adopt him because he was like Oh I. thought I'm pretty sure it's the end. times too right he he was just like a. kid that they helped out which is pretty. great um so he was you know he would. come and go he was just kind of living. his life and he could he just knew he. had a place to stay and and a place. where he could eat uh when things got. bad at home with the Weavers which I.

think says a lot about them yeah for. sure uh and while they did um kind of. chum up to some of the Aryan Nation. groups around there they were never like. official members they would go to a. meeting sometimes uh they were very much. aligned with the Christian identity. movement uh which is I mean we we can't. get to the weeds too much here but one. of the main tenants is that uh Jews are. literally the spawn of Satan that that. Eve and the serpent uh bore you know.

Jews as as babies and that non-white. people are mud people uh from a. different. creation uh they are uh I mean how deep. do you want to go here well also that if. you are of Celtic or Germanic Germanic. descent you're the chosen people you're. the you're the people who everyone else. needs to cater to basically and that. also they're the the Lost tribe of. Israel which legitimizes them all the. way back to to pre-christian days right.

okay that's deep enough yeah so uh Randy. Weaver came on the Federal's um radar as. far back as. 1985 uh because the Secret Service. showed up one time at the compound and. said hey one of your neighbors told us. that you've been threatening to shoot. Ronald Reagan and somebody tried that. before so we take it pretty seriously um. are you going to shoot Ronald Reagan yes. no maybe right.

which bubble did he fill out he said no. he adamantly said no he said this. neighbor that told you that is basically. trying to pre- internet swap me because. they want we have we're having a. property dispute and they're just trying. to bring the heat down on me and I guess. his ex explanation was persuasive. because that's as far as it went as far. as I could tell yeah that's as far as it. went uh it could have been a I mean it. could have been that innocent because he. they you know some of their neighbors. they were friendly with some they didn't. like very much uh some of their. neighbors complained uh that kids were.

wearing Nazi. armbands um that Randy had fired shots. at that houses before uh it was you know. was pretty rough and tumble out there uh. in 1988 Randy ran for Sheriff like. you're saying sort of the highest. calling that you could have right in. that crowd and he was it was basically a. platform of like I'm I'm anti-government. um in fact I carry around these get out. of jail free cards and if you don't if. you're not a non-violent criminal then.

then you're going to get a second chance. with me and I'm not going to I'm not. going to be a a government Sheriff. basically right it's the posy comatus. movement which is kind of basically what. I was talking about that based on this. act from 1878 federal troops have to. stay out of law enforcement so yeah. those black helicopters and un soldiers. and all the stuff that everybody's. worried about were just totally illegal. and I guess by that token the FBI would. be totally illegal or the ATF or the DEA.

like there just isn't supposed to be. such a thing as federal law enforcement. that was the platform he ran on the. party yeah um I think it's a pretty good. break time what do you think yeah all. right we'll take a little early blak. early Blake take an early break Blake. just set up like yes I've been waiting. for this for 16. years and we'll be back after this. learning. froma and.

stuff you should. [Music]. know all right so this is a time in the. mid 80s uh sort of late 80s when militia. groups were starting to sort of be a. thing be in the news a little bit more. and so of course the FBI is going to. start to begin undercover Ops to. infiltrate these groups and see what the. heck is is going on and that is exactly.

what happened uh at an Aryan Nation. meeting when Randy met an undercover uh. agent his name was Kenneth uh faty and. he was going by the name Gus Gus. Mago great undercover name I guess yeah. but not exactly Germanic or Celtic in in. origin you know uh he was worked for the. uh us Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and. Firearms the ATF and over the course. like this whole operation was years and. years long because it took like 3 years.

for him to get a few different meetings. with Randy in which uh which culminated. in if you ask uh the FBI um Randy saying. Hey I want to sell you some illegal Sal. off shotguns if you ask Randy he'll say. no man I wasn't trapped I didn't want to. sell the guns the guy asked to buy guns. several times with me saying no I don't. want to do that until I eventually. relented and in these illegal Firearms.

right so however it happened the feds. now had um Randy Weaver in their grips. so they thought this is a very routine. thing that federal law enforcement does. and I think local as well like they they. will bust you on some charge that's. fairly small but still enough that you. could get prison time they're going to. take you away from your family it's. going to be bad news for you but they'll. totally forget about the whole thing if. you start informing for them yeah he was. a small fish right sure right and then.

they used that that fish's bait to get. bigger and bigger bigger fish right so. he was just going to have to do what he. normally does but every once in a while. he'd meet secretly with some ATF Handler. and tell them everything he knew and who. was who and who is leading the stuff and. uh Randy Weaver thought about it and he. said you know what you can go straight. to hell I'm not going to be an informant. and you can press the charges if you. want to the ATF did not like this at all. from what I saw saw they essentially.

took that almost personally and at the. very least they came at him like they. took it personally yeah for sure uh. Vicki was pretty upset as well. apparently she wrote a warning letter. and this is in quotes to Aryan Nations. and all our Brethren of the Anglo-Saxon. race uh she filed an affidavit which you. knew trouble was coming she filed an. affidavit for the county clerk saying we. might have to defend ourselves from you. know with firearms because the federal. government govern is going to come after.

us and we want to file this affidavit. right now I it that wouldn't even cross. my mind that's pretty forward thinking. you know yeah sure so um that was. actually very preent too uh Vicky. writing that because they and they would. end up having to defend themselves by. attacks from the the federal government. um that will come a little bit later. first in January of. 1991 the um ATF I guess they didn't. arrest him on the spot when they came. and said that you know they wanted him.

to be an informant so uh a few months. later they decided to take Randy Weaver. into custody but to do that remember he. had a 300 yard Kill Zone he's got a. cabin up on a mountain you don't just. walk up and and tell somebody like that. come on you're coming with us to jail so. they actually the ATF posed as um and by. the way ATF is uh the Bureau of Alcohol. Tobacco and Firearms another ostensibly. illegal um agency um. they posed as um like their car had been.

broken down I guess on Ruby Creek Road. which is the main road that led up to. the cabin and um they basically played. on the Weaver's um propensity to help. strangers I guess yeah so they arrest. him uh they he pleads not guilty he's. released on bond a $10,000 Bond on his. own recognizance which was a little. surprising mhm uh Vicki uh his wife. again um writes a letter to the US. attorney um for the state of Idaho that.

she addressed as the uh servant of the. queen of Babylon and saying that we. refuse to bow to your evil Commandments. whether we live or whether we die um so. she you know she sent a clear message. that like we're not fooling around here. and uh I know we were on your radar but. you might as well really put us on your. radar because we're we're not coming. with you and you can't make us or take. us off your radar don't even mess with. us you know. yeah ideally So Randy had a trial set he.

remember he's been out he's out on bail. but um he still has to go to court to. face these Firearms charges and again he. sold Firearms to an undercover federal. agent a it was a federal law that he. broke so these are federal charges and. they they can be pretty serious um but. it was still again like you said it was. pretty small potatoes as far as Firearms. charges go or just um charges that you. could face in general at the time right. but it was enough that you know they had.

a trial set for him and it was set for. February 19th. 1991 and for some reason or another it. was moved by one day to February 20th. 1991 well when the government does that. or the court system does that they have. to alert you so they sent Randy a letter. saying hey uh we've moved your trial. date to uh March 20th and of course it. wasn't March 20th it was February 20th. and there was essentially a typo that. the the author of the letter a probation. officer uh had written and so of course.

Randy Weaver didn't show up on February. 20th and a bench warrant was issued for. his arrest for failure to appear yeah so. this is uh has been sort of debated here. and there about the the mistake and the. error that he didn't even have the right. court date to begin with but all. indications point to um the idea that he. was not going to come anyway um so I'm. not saying it like didn't matter at all. but they said hey we're not coming I. don't think he planned on coming even if. he had the right date um but the long.

and short of it is he didn't go and so. they you know they were really on their. radar now they're like we've got a real. situation here uh and this is when this. long like really long um surveillance. program started uh in the summer of. 1991 when they they kind of staked out. uh around the property and around the. house with you know binoculars and. things and and surveillance cameras that. they'd set up in the woods mhm they were. just tracking what this family was doing.

um they they had a couple of plans to go. in uh non-violently one of them was to. cut the water supply I guess from the. spring to the house to flush them out. cuz at certain point they weren't even. like leaving the house you know they. were having food brought in and stuff. because they knew what was going on. right um another plan they had was they. were Believers in the minstral cycle. meaning you were unclean and filthy so. when you had your menstrual cycle in. that family you had to go stay in the uh. bird thing shed on the property one of.

the out buildings during the duration of. your ministration so they were like all. right when Sarah the oldest teenager um. has her next menstrual cycle she's going. to be sent to the shed and when the kids. bringing food and stuff out there will. grab them and that they'll immediately. give up because we have the kids but. then I guess someone said well wait a. minute that's kidnapping yeah you can't. do that we don't have a warrant for any. of the children so that's we can't go. with that plan so they went with the. worst plan. uh they did go with the worst plan but.

they it was in very very it was a. terrible plan in really slow motion that. played out over a really long time. throughout which so many people had so. many chances to be like guys wait a. minute what are we doing MH this is like. a fairly small federal firearms charge. the guy sold two saw off shotguns and. then didn't appear in court like we're. spending millions of dollars on this. bringing huge resources to bear and um. and it doesn't really make sense until. you find that the ATF which was.

originally the people with this case. they brought in the Federal Marshals the. marshals eventually brought in the FBI. and the ATF told everybody else that. number one Randy Weaver was among the. the biggest Firearms suppliers in the. United States yeah not true at all with. no evidence whatsoever the only thing. that they had them on record doing was. selling two s off shotguns and the other. thing that he they told the ATF told. everybody was that he was responsible. for a string of bank robberies in.

Montana there's no evidence whatsoever. that he ever robbed a bank or had. anything to do with these bank robberies. yeah and yet those two pieces of. information transform this from there's. some weirdo family up in the mountains. with guns uh Who and the dad has a. couple of he sold a couple of sought off. shotguns and then come to court to we. need to literally bring the FBI the. Secret Service the Marshall service. everybody to camp out out for almost a. year observing this house to figure out.

how to get that guy out of there yeah it. was an extreme reaction uh I don't think. there are a lot of people that would. disagree with that no so um they're. watching this house uh the house like we. mentioned is very defensible this is the. house on the hill uh where they were to. be safe from the dreams um when they did. go out they would send usually they. would send the kids out ahead supposedly. uh with guns to kind of investigate and. see what was going on uh they had. neighbors uh recording license plates of.

people who came and went uh they didn't. the Weavers didn't have a telephone but. they tap phones at the General Store uh. the helicopters were taking aerial. photographs um they claim that uh the. feds claim that in March 92 they. actually visited and said on the. loudspeaker and via some sort of phone. call that um hey you got a surrender uh. although Randy would contend that no. until it all went down no one said. anything to me about surrendering it's a.

big deal because that's that's the first. step in a situation like that is telling. the person just go ahead and surrender. we're we just want to take you to jail. basically and that them not doing that. is huge that's a big deal again they. were watching this place for basically a. year and they had plenty of opportunity. to do that um of somebody I did not see. coming into the story is Heraldo Rivera. right and yet he he has everywhere he.

has a minor role in it in uh 1992 he. hired April of 92 he hired a helicopter. to fly over the cabin because by this. time word was out that there was this. family in Idaho that was essentially in. this long standoff with the the feds and. he said or the helicopter pilot said or. somebody said that they shot at the. helicopter when it flew over their. compound but apparently that was untrue. and I think even the surveillance team. that was watching the place at the time. so they didn't shoot at the helicopter.

but you know Heraldo he's like it's. going to be we won't get any ratings if. they don't shoot at the helicopter so. just say they shot at the. helicopter so that is that was. surprising uh the most surprising thing. to me was an appearance by another human. uh because somewhere in this in this you. know standoff while they were being. surveil uh I guess Vicki and Randy uh. got a little Randy and had another baby. it it's it in my opinion it wouldn't.

lead me to feel Amorous mhm and in the. baby making way but uh I guess things. happened MH they had a daughter in late. 1991 uh elishaba or elishaba I'm not. sure how they pronounced it I'm going. with Elba Elba okay uh right there in. that birthing shed is where they had uh. Elish Sheba. and you know so so that happened um just. know that there's a a now a a month old. baby on the scene as well yeah for some.

reason that just made me really. uncomfortable the way you put that that. happened yes so that happened I think. let's go with Elish Sheba I think you. were right the first time that makes way. more sense no I think that's what you. said no I said Elisha oh Elisha oh no I. said elisheba oh I don't know it's one. of those hey how about this we're both. right. okay so this is that was 1991 so late 91. is when she's born in the birthing shed.

on the property right that's right or. the you know menstrual shame shed right. what it depends on the situation I would. guess. right so um everything is about to go. down Chuck and it's going to go down. really hard and really publicly and the. whole thing um starts in Earnest the. standoff that everybody talks about when. they mention Ruby Ridge um is it started. on August 21st 1992 it was a Friday and. and um that morning a few I think they.

were Federal Marshals right showed up on. the scene and uh they were going to just. do some more standard surveillance and. some stated a an observation post and. some others drove up toward the road on. the way to the cabin they showed up at. like 4:30 this is not new or weird or. different but on 4:30 a.m. 4:30 a.m. you're right sorry yeah a few hours. later they were getting closer and. closer to the compound and apparently. they attracted the attention of the dogs. the Weaver's dogs and the the the.

compound was in a state where if the. dogs are suddenly going nuts you get. your gun and go see what the dogs are. barking at and that's exactly what they. did yeah so you know I know I mentioned. that these were kids but I just want to. drive home the point that you had Vicky. and Randy the parents that were there uh. you had a 10-year-old girl a 14-year-old. boy a 16-year-old girl and the Kevin. Harris kid that was living who was in. his mid 20s by now and then this. 10-month-old baby so teenagers and a.

baby one guy in his 20s and then the two. parents uh Samy the teenage boy Randy is. the dad and then Kevin is the mid 20s. guy that was living with him they go out. with their dog Striker a yellow lab. looking to see what's going on they come. to a y fork in the road um as The Story. Goes Randy took it one way Kevin and. Sammy and Striker went the other way and. this is where another uh record of Ute. comes in um because the US government.

says they were fired upon when they. announced their presence as federal. agents what Kevin says is no no no they. didn't announce their presence as. federal agents at all all we saw was. guys in camo and they like eyeballs. peering through the bushes and my dog. barking and one of the guys shot it and. killed it yeah there's no dispute that. the dog Striker was shot and killed when. it happened is that dispute and who. started shooting first so let's say.

according to Kevin's account they they. come up on these guys who did like you. said did not identify themselves as. federal agents they're wearing camo. they're holding guns um and they shoot. the dog Samy the teenage son says you. shot my dog you son of a and like. lifts his gun and I guess starts. shooting so a shootout ensues Sammy is. shot he turns to run according to. Kevin's account he turns to run is shot. in the back and killed now um Kevin is. uh gets away Randy gets away but a.

deputy Marshall named Bill Degan is. killed too so Striker um the dog Deputy. Marshall Bill Degan and Samy the son the. teenage son are all dead from this. sudden surprise gun battle that took. place uh outside of the compound yeah. and Kevin is the one uh to be clear who. shot and killed Deputy the deputy. Marshall okay that's that's 100%. verified yeah okay because Randy was not. a part of that shootout I gotta so yeah.

I know that he took a different road so. he wasn't there when it happened I don't. think so I mean everything I saw was. that the shootout was between the. teenage boy and the 20-some year old uh. and that you know he he shot Deputy Bill. Dean in the chest and killed him gotcha. so um either way there's a firefight. going on a shootout going on and um. Randy and Kevin Retreat back to the. compound uh but they they leave Samy's. body there temporarily. um and they're just completely fixated.

according to Kevin throughout that time. on retrieving his body this is a pretty. tight family so you don't want to leave. the dead body of your 14-year-old son. just laying in the road um you want to. go get them and this actually runs a. foul of what the marshals um were saying. the two of them they said that two of. them were pinned down by sniper fire for. 12 hours um and Kevin and the rest of. the Weavers are like that's not true at. all we were scared out of our minds and.

and um totally grieving already from. from sami's Death we weren't spending 12. hours pinning down the the marshals with. sniper fire yeah they said they claimed. at least that the only gunfire that came. from them at at that point was uh Randy. firing his gun into the air because he. was so upset about losing his teenage. son right all right so now we're at. Saturday August. 22nd um a hostage rescue team is. dispatched Ed by the. FBI and um this is when things get.

really hinky because the The Rules of. Engagement in the United States in a. situation like this are well known and. uh generally ascribed to when things are. on the up and up which is uh you do not. engage unless you are under direct. threat from uh of violence or like. somebody firing at you basically right. uh they amended this uh Rules of. Engagement and it was approved by uh the. bureau's assistant director for criminal.

investigation division Larry Potts that. basically said any armed adult man that. you see uh you can shoot and kill as. long as you're not endangering a child. yeah unprovoked just see him walking. through the compound he's holding the. gun at his side you can kill him that is. completely outside of the boundaries of. the norm like you were saying yes so um. this is that's a huge escalation Chuck. right that I mean they were already like. like you said overreacting you could say.

now this is I mean this is just out of. control escalating and um of course when. you have something like that and you. have a bunch of um snipers and you have. a bunch of law enforcement people. staking out a compound the chances of. somebody being killed just have. increased dramatically uh and that's. actually what happens um I say we take a. break and we come back and talk about a. huge turning point in this standoff how. about that let's do it. learning stuff from josua and.

Char stuff you should. [Music]. know so Chuck by this time this is. Saturday August 22nd um blood's been. Shed from the shootout uh and now the um. hostage rescue team and their snipers. from the FBI have the authority to to.

shoot to kill unprovoked the people in. the compound as long as it's a adult. male holding a gun and um there was a. guy one of those snipers an FBI sniper. named Len huchi uh he was about 200. yards away from the compound and he'd. been briefed on this revised altered um. Rules of Engagement that the FBI had. authorized and he saw Randy Sarah and. Kevin all leaving the the cabin the main. building and they started to uh make.

their way toward the birthing shed uh. they later said that they were heading. to the birthing shed to start preparing. sami's body for burial they' retrieved. it by this time uh and huchi following. these altered Rules of Engagement uh. took a shot and he shot um Kevin no he. shot Randy in the arm so of course from. that point on they they immediately. scattered because all of a sudden. somebody's shooting at them. yeah so they are headed back to the.

cabin uh they get to the door um Vicky. the mom is holding her 10-month old uh. daughter in her arms and kind of holding. the door open getting people in and this. is when Lon huchi takes a second shot um. he said he was going for Harris but it. went squarely through the head of Vicki. um through her head and hitting Uh Kevin. then in the chest and uh she apparently. was still holding her infant daughter.

when she hit the floor dead immediately. yeah um so that was like I said an. enormous turning point now uh the son. has just been killed by the feds now the. mom has just been killed by the feds but. at this time um the the FBI doesn't. realize that they've killed her I don't. know if Len hor Uchi like went home and. didn't tell anybody what had happened I. I'm not sure I don't know how you could. shoot someone in the head and not. realize that you'd done that but. apparently it was not immediately.

understood by the FBI running this uh. negotiation that that Vicky um Weaver. was dead uh and and also by this time we. should say there is a ton ton of. cops a lot of estimates put it in the. hundreds yeah Federal County State local. law enforcement all showing up to to. basically help out or contain or do. whatever and one of the things they did. almost immediately was block the roads.

and those roadblocks became a sight of. protest for people who showed up and. were like this is messed up man these. these this family needs to be let free. yeah and these are you know these are. people from the Aryan Nation groups and. some other militia groups uh that it's. basically they're saying hey this is. going down exactly how we say this kind. of stuff goes down right um so that. that's going on they blocked off the. roads like you said um mom's dead body.

now is under the kitchen table where it. remains Uh Kevin is in pretty bad shape. cuz he was shot in the chest so he's in. and out of Consciousness uh they're not. quite sure you know what what's going to. happen to him at this point um and we. should also mention that Lon huchi is uh. a sniper that also had a lot of. controversial um was also controversial. in the Waco Siege like very soon after. this yeah so this same guy was at both. of these Siege. and both times was a part of a a pretty.

controversial um shooting incident I. okay well I didn't know that about wo i. I had heard that he had not fired a shot. at Waco but I guess that's not correct. well I didn't I looked into it a little. bit but then I started going down the. rabbit hole and thought we should just. cover Waco okay but I think he was one. of the guys that was charged with firing. um like the the incendiary rounds into. the building but uh I might be wrong on. that but um we'll save it for the wo. yeah and let's put it this way like you.

can't find anything about Lon huchi now. like yeah we know he's still alive but. I'm I'm sure he's not available for you. know interviews if you know what I mean. for sure yeah so like I said they um the. feds apparently didn't know that Sammy. was dead and they also didn't know that. Vicky Weaver was dead um they started. destroying buildings around the cabin so. now they're closing in this perimeter. it's not just any longer like in this. 300 yard Kill Zone they're starting to.

move in and they're destroying buildings. as they go and I guess when they. destroyed the birthing shed they. discovered sami's body and were're like. oh uh one of the family members is dead. and he happened to be a teenager um yeah. again they still didn't know that Vicki. was dead and I guess because she had. been the ones writing the uh emphatic. letters um to the servant of the queen. of Babylon Etc and filing the affidavits. the um hostage Rescue Team presumed that. she was the one who made the decisions.

in the family so they continued to. address her even after she had been. killed by the FBI sniper um and so they. would speak directly to Mrs Weaver. through the their loudspeakers and the. family was just they they didn't realize. that the FBI didn't realize that they. had killed Vicki so they thought that. they were just adding like horrible. torment onto the injury of losing their. mom and wife yeah and you know depending. on who you listen to there are also.

people that say no they knew that she. was dead and the things that they were. saying were deliberate uh trying to. provoke them and cause further upset uh. by you know speaking to Mrs Weaver who. they they knew well was dead but again. it's just it's one of those you know. you're never going to get the truth out. of a matter like this uh because they're. there are two sides but they're trying. to lure them out saying hey we had. pancakes for breakfast once you bring. the kids out I bet they'd love some. pancakes uh they send down a robot a.

remote control robot with uh a telephone. so they could you know this is one of. the Huges um ways they broke protocol is. that in a situation like this you've got. to be in contact and negotiate with. someone in a standoff and they didn't do. that until well into it when they tried. to get him a phone on this remote. control robot that had a gun mounted to. the front of it which wasn't a good idea. because of course they saw that they. were like I'm not going near that thing. right why would you even do that to. defend the robot I mean that doesn't.

make any sense I tried to find out but I. couldn't find anything that that was. rational so I don't know that's crazy so. that didn't happen they weren't able to. establish contact aside from shouting at. them through loudspeakers right but it. wasn't a back and forth or anything like. that and the Weavers just dug in they. stayed in their cabin um for days. remember this started on Friday August. 21st the following Friday August 28th. this thing was still going on mom was.

still dead under the table um and they. agreed to speak with a guy named Bo. Gritz he was also a Green Beret a. lieutenant colonel so essentially what's. happening now is Colonel Troutman for. Rambo is showing up to tell the. authorities that Randy Weaver will eat. stuff that will make a billy goat puke. like it's it's uncanny how closely this. resembled that part of of Rambo right um. and Bo Gritz was able to get in and make. make contact along with an ex cop from.

Phoenix named Jack mclam now both of. them are were huge and I believe still. are in the conspiracy theorist um. circles that Randy Weaver ran in um so. it's not like they were just some. average people like they could they. could communicate with him and talk his. language and he he knew enough about. them I don't know if he knew them. personally or not but their reputation. was enough that he let them come inside. to the to the cabin and talk yeah so. they brought some food for the baby and.

milk for the baby which is great and uh. kind of talked to uh talked Randy into. um ultimately coming out but initially. just kind of got him in a better state. of mind um they are the ones when they. came back out that told the Feds hey. Vicki's dead and there under the table. Randy's wounded um Kevin is wounded like. big time wounded um and they were like. what that's news to us so on Sunday the. 30th Kevin uh finally surrendered Randy.

said it's okay you need to go get. medical help he was uh helicoptered out. to. Spokan and I believe he's in serious. condition but he. recovered uh and then they also allowed. um grits and a friend named Jackie Brown. strangely enough to uh take his wife's. body away and the pets they had a couple. of pet parakeet that they took away as. well right so Kevin's out it's now just. Randy and his three daughters Sarah.

elisheba and Rachel yeah uh and they. were alone in this cabin still under. siege um and so there were a lot of. supporters who were like well I mean we. know how this is going to end Randy's. going to come out with guns blazing and. take out as many of these feds as he can. before he gets taken down and um very. reasonably and wisely Randy did not do. that uh he made sure that he and his. three um daughters were able to come.

down safely uh ostensibly under the care. of a an attorney named Jerry Spence uh. he represented the estate of Karen. silwood who also deserves an episode too. but essentially she was a whistleblower. who was mysteriously who mysteriously. died in a mysterious car crash um so he. he was pretty famous as far as defense. attorneys and he had said I'll represent. this guy if he'll come out um I don't. know if did did he uh I don't know okay.

well let's presume that he did and and. didn't go back on his word but. regardless they some people think that. that uh Public Announcement by Jerry. Spence may have had at least some role. in getting um Randy Weaver to come out. um peaceably yeah and he had to talk his. daughters into it you know they were uh. they were ready to go they were both. brandishing guns so he said you know um. 14-year-old Sarah put down your 9mm and. 10-year-old Rachel put down that 38. we're going to get out of here alive and.

they did that uh Randy and Kevin were. ultimately charged with murder. conspiracy. assault um and the girls went to live. with their uh in-laws I believe uh. Vicky's parents in Iowa right and so of. course they're they're like you said. they're charged so their trial begins in. April of. 1993 and I don't know if ironic is the. term but the the trial started just. before Waco ending uh and if you don't.

know um how Waco ended and you can't. wait till our episode on Waco ended. really badly a lot of women and children. died um it was just a bad Jam so this is. happening as this trial at for the Ruby. Ridge standoff is starting um and the. whole thing lasted for months I think. finally in on July 9th not only were. there months of testimony the jury. deliberated for 20 days that is a really. long. toate and they came theyed Kevin Harris.

of all charges and you had said he. definitely killed um the uh the deputy. Marshall right um so he was acquitted of. that and everything else and um Randy. Weaver was acquitted on everything. except for his failure to appear in the. original Firearms case that was it yeah. so clearly this Idaho jury. was like yes the the feds very much.

overstepped their bounds and overreacted. and this is like so much so that like. we're we don't think these people should. be should go to jail for anything they. did in response yeah I mean it was sort. of The Facts of the case too like. everything I saw it didn't seem like it. was just some uneven jury where they. were just sympathetic to the locals. right uh once the facts that the case. came out it was pretty clear they. changed Rules of Engagement when they. shouldn't have they didn't follow. protocol setting up you know. Communications uh they went in guns.

blazing and just basically murdered. people um they uh in 94 the family filed. wrongful death lawsuits against the FBI. and the US Marshals uh they settled it. the jod settled the suits they paid. about a million bucks to each of the. girls 100 Grand to Weaver uh Harris many. years later in 2000 won another. settlement for. $380,000 and Lon huchi the sniper who uh. you know where things really took a turn.

uh when he got involved he uh it kind of. went back and forth in uh different. appeals in different cases over the. years of pursuing criminal charges um. against him so uh involuntary. manslaughter was the initial charge I. think they moved it to a federal. district court who dismissed it uh. saying that he was acting in his you. know official capacity so you can't. convict a guy for that um and there were. a bunch of appeals and ended up up in. him escaping any um Justice by having.

the charges dropped so the justice. department had their own inquiry and. they found out that this whole thing was. pretty much a cluster from beginning to. end the Senate held hearings in 1995. featuring Fred thomton who would go on. to play the da in law and order for a. couple of Seasons That's back when he. was a senator for Tennessee uhhuh um and. they also found that the whole thing was. basically a cluster from beginning to. end um and one person who did actually. due time for this is actually a FBI.

agent the guy who one of was one of the. people running the operation eichel K he. he was sentenced to 18 months in federal. prison because he destroyed an after. action report about the operation he. said he was acting in what he thought. was the bureau's best interests and that. he didn't want the local Idaho. prosecutor getting a hold of the thing. uh and using it I would guess against. Lon huchi I don't know but he was the. only person to uh actually do time from. this whole thing yeah uh Randy uh just.

died a couple years ago at the age of 74. he kind of abandoned a lot of the um. just sort of further out there religious. ideas that is uh was in his marriage um. seemingly because of Vicki and uh he was. still like a a you know sort of CB in. the anti-government world um and Sarah. the oldest daughter has uh it is very. very easy to find interviews with her uh. she wrote a book at it about it called.

from Ruby Ridge to freedom and in that. book she forgave those federal agents. yeah it's pretty amazing I was reading. an interview with her she's a big. commentator on that part of America and. um it its response to the federal. government and how each one needs to. kind of interact with one another she's. very peaceful now it seems like yeah. seems like it and like you said Ruby. Ridge was like a huge impetus that was. that gave like all of these farri.

movements a shot in the arm and this is. 1993 within two years all of that. momentum would just be completely. scuttled when Timothy McVey came along. and said hey I'm going to blow up a. federal building in Oklahoma City kill. 168 people including 19 children in a. daycare and it's in retaliation for Ruby. Ridge and wakeo and it was so abhorent. that all of those people who were like. yeah Ruby Ridge we're suddenly like whoa. I'm I don't want to have anything to do.

with militias anymore because this is. what people do I'm not I don't want to. have anything to do with it it wasn't. until the early 2000s that it started to. come back again which is slowly. developed over time until we are where. we are now where there're essentially. public um public office holders in some. cases yeah uh this is a tough one so. maybe let's do wo in one year and then. we can do the Oklahoma City bombing in. two years have you ever been to to. Oklahoma City in that site I have not. it's insane to stand there it's just.

nuts so yeah we should do one on that. too for sure but we got to space these. out oh I agree you're saying every. December like a Christmas episode there. you go good idea American Tragedy toy. episode and then our holiday episode. yeah uh okay well Chuck apologized just. a second ago so that means it's time for. listener mail. yeah here's a correction about. porcupines that I don't think we got.

when that initially came out but it must. have been released as a uh Saturday. edition right bet your sweet bippy it. was. okay uh hi guys my name is uh uh j o and. I'm an undergraduate at UC herbine. setting biology I wanted to write about. a correction in your porcupines up Chuck. was discussing the fact uh of how new. world and Old World porcupines evolve. independently of each other uh the. phrase for that would actually be.

convergent evolution not. co-evolution oh so I think I misspoke. and that actually we could probably. clear that up in our peacock's episode. coming up oh good idea Chuck convergent. evolution is what we need to remember um. co-evolution is a term where. interactions between two species have a. reciprocal effect on each other's. Evolution uh which is completely. different uh convergent evolution is. when two separate population uh. populations in distinct Geographic. locations undergo similar phenotypic.

changes due to selective pressures I. want to finish by thanking you both for. always peing my. interest it's peing I know. oh you got me again that's really I. thought you were just messing with me a. couple of months Chu wow okay um and. then later on I tell I was like I. mispronounced peing peing and Josh. totally called me on it but I tricked. him. uh peaking my interest in a variety of. random topics I didn't know I needed.

until I did looking forward to learning. more and that once again is from uh j o. thanks j j o is O their last name uh it. is ji-. Tao but they put a handy pronunciation. next to it that's why I'm saying that. well thanks a lot GA that was a great. name GRE email and best of luck to you. with your biology degree we need more. biologists running around out there so. bless you for that and if you want to be. blessed by Pope Josh or Pope Chuck you.

can send us an email as well send it off. to stuff podcast at iheartradio.com. [Music]. stuff you should know is a production of. iHeart radio for more podcasts my heart. radio visit the iHeart Radio app Apple. podcasts or wherever you listen to your. favorite shows. [Music].