The Puritans in America | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW

[Music]. welcome to stuff you should know a. production of iHeart. [Music]. Radio hey and welcome to the podcast I'm. Josh and Chuck's here and Jerry's here. too and this is stuff you should. know it that it you every time doesn't. it oh sure after 16 years it doesn't. take much for me to get a giggle from. you that's good I like that cuz it. should have gone the opposite a giggle.

in me from me because of you I put a. giggle in you oh oo well about that. fresh speaking of fresh Chuck you. probably would not have just said that. were you not born an American uhhuh and. was America not founded by essentially. the most radical element extremist. element that England had to offer at the. time wow nice work look at you thanks.

that's all we need to say about their. backstory you. jerk well I can sum it up in three. sentences all right let's see what you. got well we're talking about puritanism. and getting into uh just you know. English puritanism is a um a big ball of. wax very detailed and it's very easy to. get in the weeds we're going to. concentrate more on uh the Puritans or. at least my charged Olivia I was like.

you know what I think I was in. Massachusetts at the time when we were. doing our show in Medford MH and uh I. was like uh what's up with this place. Massachusetts and what was up with the. Puritans why is everybody dressed like. pilgrims yeah so we're not going to go. like super into detail about their. formation but uh we will talk a little. bit about that right now and my first. sentence and then you can just take over. uh is who the p uh the Puritans were and.

who they were was a group of. extreme um far extreme Protestants and. it was a movement that came out of the. fact that they were like hey England's. been. reformed uh the Church of England we. don't want any sniff of Catholicism. around anymore so we're going to go hard. hard toward the most extreme version of. protestantism that you could imagine. yeah and you can make a case that the. Puritans would not have existed had.

England not broken with the Catholic. church and formed its own church of. England right but these people are like. no like we're we're not going far enough. we need to just be completely off the. roads make our own thing and like you. said like there was this is a thick. thick period of English History from. like the 1530s to the. 1660s something like that um like a lot. happened during that time and and the. Puritans like they either responded to. it or were shaped by it in some way.

shape or form but you can kind of sum. the whole thing up is that there was a. lot of changing of hands of power from. monarchs to people who stage coups and. sometimes the Puritans were deeply. persecuted sometimes brutally other. times they were the ones in charge and. they would brutalize other people um and. it was enough that that it shook loose. some of the more radical groups of. Puritans of of Puritans who either. wanted to reform the Ang Anglican Church.

to be more Puritan or decided the. Anglican Church couldn't be reformed and. that they should go off and form their. own mini churches it's called. congregationalism so the upshot is. things were just in such upheaval that. it shook some groups loose some moved to. Holland and some ended up moving to. North America because stuff was just so. crazy back in England at the time yeah. they were basically like hey we can we. can go over there this was in. 16008 uh and it was a group of. separatists you were talking about these.

congregationalists they were separatists. they wanted to sort of Branch off you. know if you saw the movie uh the viit. remember that one yeah that that's kind. of what we're talking about these people. that set up their own shops and were. like hey we can just go out here on our. own and be as uh radically Protestant uh. as we can be because you know we're uh. we're based in Calvinism we we believe. in predestination we think that there. are Chosen Few that that are uh.

designated to go to heaven and you're. you're either one of those people or. you're not there's really nothing you. can do about that right and we've got. ministers that are going to decide if. you've gone through a real religious. conversion or not um and the other thing. we should point out too is that the. actual term Puritan that didn't come. along until the 1560s and it was was. like an insult right it was um I saw it. described as I think in the New World. Encyclopedia that you could you could um.

considered calling somebody like uptight. or high strung or like just a worry Ward. or something uh today that's kind of. what they were calling Puritans back. then the Puritans called themselves. Saints if that says enough to you about. what they thought about themselves but. purtin was kind of a put down because. the the people the other people in the. Anglican Church who were like things are. fine you guys are really nitpicking here. you're up in arms about some really dumb. stuff like people burning incense.

during um church services like just. stuff that doesn't matter and the. Puritans were like it does matter. because that is Satan's way of. corrupting us yeah and it's funny too. one of the other things that keeps. coming up it seems like that they really. got stuck on was like can you talk to. God directly can you pray or or not or. do you have to go through official. channels of people higher up in this. religion yeah and it seemed like that. was a fight like on and off again for a. long long time is people saying like no.

we think you can like you don't need to. be special you can pray and talk to God. and other people are like no that's Blas. with me I know and you just touched on. something that's kind of at the heart. like this was the great Puritan struggle. because one of the reasons for breaking. with the church and getting as far away. from us because the church was like to. get through God you go through US priest. Bishop Cardinal Pope like that's the way. you go to get to God you can't do it. yourself you need the church and by the. way give us a bunch of money and the. Puritans hated that so they did believe.

that like a congregation could take care. of itself and that the minister could. help people but really you just needed. to know what it said in the Bible and. live your life accordingly and hope that. you were one of the saved who are going. to make it into heaven um that was their. whole way yet they were also a deeply. elitist group where the wealthier you. were the the more that meant you you. were favored by God and so by by. association if you were poor or.

poverty-stricken that must mean you had. some sort of moral failing right and if. that's not essentially the basis of. America still today I don't know what is. yeah it's really funny um well not funny. it's sad but you know what I mean it's I. know exactly what you mean uh so I. mentioned the group of separatists uh. that in 16008 they came from uh a. village in Yorkshire called scruby uh. you mentioned they moved to Holland and. then about 12 years later uh a little. more than 100 of them went to Plymouth.

Rock uh and founded that Colony uh here. in North America and again with the idea. they're going to create this um great. Community where they can be English uh. they don't have to compromise what they. believe in uh these were the people in. the Mayflower who a lot of them died. they had that first Thanksgiving didn't. have Christmas though right no the. Puritans hated. Christmas they did they did and like I. always thought it was because I saw. somebody EXP it that it's not in the.

Bible if it wasn't in the Bible it was. satanic right and so of course they. didn't mention Christmas in the Bible. but I also saw a more reasonable. explanation is that I think we talked. about this Christmas at the time was a. drunken rabble rousing occasion where. almost like you know Halloween can get. to be like today that's kind of what. Christmas was like so of course they. hated Christmas yeah because no one. drinks around Christmas now no everybody. observes it puritanically.

uh in 1630 if we jump ahead just a. little bit this is when and this is the. sort of the money stuff I was after this. is when the Massachusetts Bay Colony was. founded uh it was another group from. England led by a guy named John Winthrop. who was kind of a well-healed attorney. uh he was a a a Gentry member which. means he was sort of just below nobility. but you know very highly respected uh. class of people right which you know as. you'll see comes like you were saying. comes to be something that the Puritans.

were known for yeah and when we think. about Puritans in this country generally. we're thinking about the people that. came over with John winthrip the. founding of. Massachusetts um not the not the. pilgrims um not separatists because they. weren't like hey we we don't want. anything to do with the church of. England um but they were still. congregationalists yeah so the yes the. Puritans and the pilgrims were for all. intents and purposes separate groups. they live separately they were both they.

were both reformists Calvinists who. wanted the Anglican Church to either get. further away from Catholicism or split. from the Anglican Church all together so. the best way the rule thumb to to. understand both groups is the pilgrims. would have found the Puritans ungodly. and satanic like that's how radical the. pilgrims were the most radical of all of. the separatists or of all of the the um. the reformists of the Anglican Church. and the Puritans were definitely they.

would look down on us today the pilgrims. would have just run in Terror if they. saw any of us today the Puritans would. just look down on us and they would. recognize themselves in us I think a. little bit too yeah totally and we'll. we'll get to some of that a little bit. later um but the other thing is that. they had a lot more money uh than the. pilgrims did they had a lot more. financing and resources there were also. about 10 times as many um I think about. a thousand people came over in that. first group. and they weren't they were just looking.

to set up an idealized Society over. there they weren't like fleeing England. or anything um but they were also they. didn't want like freedom of religion at. the same time they were still like super. puritanical uh but winr up you know. you've heard the very famous a sermon. about the The Colony being the city on. the hill that was from winthrip when he. was talking about you know. metaphorically We Are Who everyone's. going to look up to so we got to set a. good example and Lead really Godlike. lives. yeah we don't want this thing to fail.

because everybody's watching us so. better act like Puritans essentially. exactly one of the ways they did that. also is that they would all keep a close. eye on one another because there's one. other thing to to um to understand about. the Puritans they believed quite. literally Satan was walking Among Us and. took an active interest in each. individual's vices um desires all that. stuff and if you were weak if you didn't. have your guard up at all times and live.

a very Godly life um you could be. corrupted and God would kill you and. send your send your soul to hell that. was the stakes of what what what these. Puritans were living with on a daily. basis so the best way to to root out. Satan before he can really get a. foothold in a colony is to watch. everybody down to the family level. family members would watch each other. for signs that Satan was corrupting them. well that's the vich yeah exactly that. definitely is portrayed in that for sure. yeah yeah don't turn your back on that.

Billy. Goat what was his name like Funtime. Joseph or something no what was it. something. black Freddy Fazbear Funtime black I. don't know something like that these are. the moments where people are screaming. at us in their uh cars or whatever yeah. apparently it's. anecdotally h what do you mean don't you. remember I think there was a listener. mail that came you were trying to think. of a word and it was anecdotal oh oh. yeah yeah.

um I think well maybe before we break. we'll just say this that um we also have. to talk about the finances of this it. was uh it was a puritanical group and it. was um all about religion but they also. had to make money so technically the. colony was founded by a company the. Massachusetts Bay Company which was a. stock Venture that traded uh fur they. traded fish and uh they had shareholders. and it was you know it was a business it. was but this is how the Puritans retain.

control of it the joint owners The Joint. stockholders of that company were the. ones who voted on who ran things in the. colony but it just so happens that the. owners of the stock were exclusively. people who lived in that Colony right. all of those people were Puritans and so. they were able to keep the dream alive. of this city on a hill because they held. complete power over this company and all. of its doings yeah they were the voting.

shareholders yeah but it is important to. remember too they ran a successful. company these were. elitist they were elitist um religious. people it's very it's I want to say it's. bizarre but it's not at all bizarre um. it's very common I think actually yeah. um all right so let's take that break. and we'll talk about what uh life was. like there in Massachusetts early on. right after this learning stuff with.

josua and. Sh stuff you should. [Music]. know so um when the people first arrived. in uh Massachusetts when the the. settlers that were led by John Winthrop.

they hit Salem First they um met with. some people who had kind of spread out. from pouth and they were like you guys. are a little too high strong even for us. yeah so we're going to go found Boston. which apparently is named after a town. in Lincolnshire in England where a lot. of the people were from and wiri was. they were like you're the governor. you're the guy you let us over here you. gave a great lay sermon no one's ever. heard anything better than what you just. said in fact so why don't you be become. governor and he kept getting elected and.

reelected and reelected cuz they had. annual elections it wasn't every like 2. or 4 years mhm but even still he was. like hey guys I think somebody else. should take a turn too I don't want to. accidentally become king of the. Massachusetts bayy you know yeah which. was uh I don't know maybe a little bit. surprising it was but another thing. that's surprising too is these people. are are immediately removed from England. where there is a monarch in charge the. king that has absolute authority over.

them in their lives and these guys are. holding annual elections for their. leader who directly helps them run their. own town that's bizarre but that's also. the seating of American democracy too. yeah absolutely which I'm sure they it. was pretty radical for them at the. time um all right so they in. Massachusetts they're farming nothing. huge but they're farming uh they're. fishing they're Milling Lumber they're.

building boats and ships uh the. population is is really really growing. and kind of all over New England at that. time cuz they just started spreading out. they would go found another town then. another town let's go to Rhode Island. let's go to Maine and they said what are. those places even they said well we'll. come up with the names later but isn't. the SE Seaside lovely yeah just come. this way and uh if you were a uh one of. the first people there you were known as. a proprietor you would get a little bit. of land um the religion again was still.

Central to all this stuff in every town. that was they were still you know laser. focused on that but um it was really. really growing fast and one of the. reasons was because King Charles I first. dissolved parliament in 1629 so all. these Puritan reformers who were working. in England to try and change the the. state of the church there had no like uh. recourse they were like well we've been. kicked out of Parliament so let's go to.

this new world I guess and about 20,000. of them uh moved there between 1629 and. 1640 when Parliament got back together I. know in a decade their their numbers. grew about 24 that's a big influx of. people um yeah and in that 20year period. that there was like there A lot happened. in in England as well and that was also. not just the reason why a bunch of. Puritans showed up because there was you. know the monarchy was toppled and there. was Civil War and all that but um that.

also led to the uh fleeing essentially. from the UK of well it wasn't the UK at. the time but the Scottish the Irish. other English who weren't um Puritans. French immigrants they all showed up and. they're like hey stuff's really off the. chain back in England and you know what. will eventually be the UK so we're going. to come here and hang out with you guys. but we're not Puritans so don't put that. stuff on us you keep your Hang-Ups to.

yourself and the Puritans um kind of. scratched their van djk beards for a. second and they said you know what you. look like somebody who could make me a. lot of money welcome aboard and so. Massachusetts grew not just spiritually. when all of the other Puritans showed up. but economically it really started to. make inroads because a lot of Labor. showed up a lot of Craftsmen showed up. and Merchants showed up too who were. like hey I've got connections back in.

England that can get us stuff we need or. who will buy the stuff that we're making. and it started to thrive pretty quickly. around that time they also scratched. their band beards and said wait a minute. we thought off the chain that was. good right they said just yeah I guess. so just shut up don't say anything about. that at least I didn't say off the hook. they would have been like what are you. talking about exactly like like people. remain on hooks um so while this is. going on uh let's say this is what. 1636 um the uh colony of Connecticut was.

founded by a guy named John hooker uh he. was a pastor in what would later be. Cambridge uh but he got a commission. from the general court uh of. Massachusetts gound Connecticut so that. happened and then Rhode Island um they. were actually Puritan dissidents that. founded Rhode Island yeah and basically. every part of New England um was founded. under some sort of religious pretense. except for new Hampshire right which is.

kind of interesting I think like I think. you can still see like remnants of that. stuff today and how New England is yeah. like I think the New Hampshire um state. license plate says Satan's country. [Laughter]. right actually says Live Free or Die oh. well yeah there you have it so um so. this this whole Venture is starting to. really kind of cook between 1630 and. before the 1600s were out it just really.

established itself they were spreading. out so much that like you said they were. founding new colonies that were seeded. from the original Massachusetts Bay. colonies the pilgrims were like nobody. likes us no one's joining our ranks. We're actually losing people now yeah we. had the first murder among Europeans in. North America here um can we come join. you and actually there's a big big. argument and debate and a Schism I think. in Plymouth who like the Practical.

leaders were like guys We're not gonna. make it unless we join up with. Massachusetts yeah the other ones were. like they're not godly enough and I. think the people who thought they. weren't Godly enough lost out and so. Plymouth was taken into was absorbed. into Massachusetts in 1691 that's right. so we talked a little bit about um what. was going on there as far as the kind of. things they were doing fishing and. lumbering and and farming a little bit. but like day-to-day life um the the two.

most important things were going to. church and going to school uh if there's. one thing we can credit puritanism with. is the fact that they put um a lot of uh. weight and importance on schooling. everybody and making sure everybody. could read so everybody could read the. Bible that's another um Legacy of. Puritans that's still around today and. that's super American is public. education yeah like a a very. extensive government overseen like.

educational system that's what the. Puritans set up they actually passed an. act the old deluder Satan Act of. 1647 which I looked it up I couldn't. find that it was ever repealed so it's. technically still on the books in. Massachusetts yeah but it basically said. if you have a town of 50 families up to. up to 50 families you have to hire a. school Master that's just law now if you. have a hundred families or more you have.

to actually build your own grammar. school and if you're the head of. household not only do your kids have to. go to school you have to make sure that. your servants kids are educated too. that's right little kids uh what would. be like I guess sort of kindergarten to. first grade second grade uh age um would. go to what was called a Dame school uh. usually an older woman of the community. would run that one then they had the. secondary schools uh if you were from a. wealthier family you would go there to.

learn stuff to prepare you for more. education mhm and if you're like what. are you talking about more education. this is 1636 guys uh we're talking about. a little college called havid because in. 1636 uh some leaders uh in the Puritan. Community established the college to. educate the clergy there and uh it was. renamed Harvard a few years after that. um after Puritan Minister John Harvard. after he said hey I got a lot of land. here I have a valuable estate I have.

this incredible Library it's all yours. and so they named the college Harvard uh. and eventually that town would become. Cambridge yes so um yeah they named it. Cambridge because John Harvard and a lot. of the other leaders had gone to school. at Cambridge which was producing clergy. as well so that's pretty interesting and. I've noticed before on Harvard's little. logo it does say 1636 and that's quite a. claim to fame in in the United States. I've noticed that. not a not a lot of things go back to.

1636 in the US so hats off to Harvard as. they say mhm as they say in the Dame. schools not hats off to. Harper I said har no lead Zeppelin. wasn't that hats yeah yeah that's right. that's the one that starts out so weird. yeah that was a weird song good one. though so um all right like we we kind. of beat around the bush a little bit. about who the like how pure Channel IAL. they were you you said that a pilgrim.

would look at a Puritan like they were. like a modern-day American you know or. something like that yeah um in our. Modern Eyes we think the Puritans were. just really you know like you said the. the derogatory name they were uptight uh. they didn't have any fun they were Dow. um but that that's really not. necessarily true that's kind of the. popular Trope in the media portrayal. right um but they had uh it was all. about money like once people started. making money and there was class.

division they were people wanted to show. it off and they were like all right well. let's let's pass some laws here that. says you know you don't have to wear. gray and black all the time uh you can. you can Splash a little color on your. house and on your clothing and you can. you can wear those things that you can. afford to buy and show them off a little. bit yeah why shouldn't you show off your. new Cadillac buggy that shows that God. clearly favors you over your neighbors. exactly should but only if you're an.

economic or social Elite if you're not. if you're a peasant or you're um just. not favored by God you have to dress in. those great clothes that we used to all. have to wear yeah a big change and that. happened in just a couple. decades sex what about sex is that what. you said sex. sex oh my god um so they did not like. extramarital sex yeah they were not big. fans of um same-sex relationships nope. they didn't even like.

masturbation so you'd think of course. like I mean they're famous for the. Scarlet lighter these are the people who. branded Hester prin with The Scarlet. Letter at least put it on her clothing. right they really did that yes they did. that was a real thing Nathaniel. Hawthorne did not lie but we I think as. a modern group we've kind of. extrapolated that to mean that they did. not like sex at all like you they would. just be like some guy who followed. people around and like hit them with a. switch whenever they thought about sex. or something that's actually the. opposite of what they were like yeah.

apparently that if you were if you were. married they were like hey you go make. kids and even if you're not making kids. you go and do that that dirty deed uh I. believe the um the quote was it would. Bond couples together with Good Will and. Delight MH and they talked about the. duty of desire to like not withhold sex. from your partner uh and they would even. turn a blind eye to premarital sex with. is which is really shocking to hear this. but they'll be like hey if you're in.

there you're not married yet don't worry. about it do your thing uh but if you get. pregnant you better get married really. quickly and not tell everyone that this. happened first exactly so that was a big. one I didn't know that that they were. into sex they were fre they did not know. that or the drinking thing either no. that's another thing too you would think. that they were all tea tolers and they. were not in fact they drank about twice. as much as we drink by gallons of. alcohol pure alcohol a year which.

apparently is how they measure drinking. over the years right yeah so they would. drink all day long yeah Morning Noon. night they drank the entire time but you. had to hold your liquor because being. drunk was not okay and I don't think it. was like something they would execute. you for but it was very much frowned. upon but drinking go ahead and drink all. day long keep a keep a nice little buzz. going but that's it yeah I get the. feeling I get the feeling he had to be. pretty drunk to to get that.

scorn okay so so I he had to really. cross the line right exactly but I I. think it was hard for them because they. could hold their liquor yeah so in. 1790 the average American drank an. estimated six gallons of pure alcohol. per year that's 1790 we're thinking that. probably did not change much like go up. or down from 100 or so years before that. it started to go down in the 19th.

century right so 6 Gall today in 2021. the average American drinks 2.83 gallons. of pure alcohol a year so twice as much. the Puritans were drinking than we do. wow there all having premarital sex. they're drinking all day long yep no. wonder they're having premarital sex. they're drinking all day long sure what. else are you going to do yeah exactly um. so when it comes to the women uh in. these societies uh it was a uh a.

patriarch like there's no getting around. that and women didn't have a lot of. legal rights at the time no getting. around that but depending on which. congregation or which Community you were. in there may be women in that town that. had more say over others uh in what was. important in that town which was the. church which was what was being uh. preached uh the sermons that the. children were hearing sometimes they. would even be able to lead those sermons. which was pretty radical for the time. right yeah for sure and um I mean like.

it was very patriarchical but I read. that the Puritans did have respect. especially um Colonial Puritans in New. England had a lot of respect for women. for their um domestic abilities yeah. because they did a lot of stuff just to. keep a home going um and then also. because of they would go through. childbirth so like there was a lot of. respect for women in that sense but the. men or the oldest son were clearly the. head of the household still of course. yeah yeah um they and I know we talked.

about this in our Salem Witch Trials. episode but you know the reason that was. such a big deal is because it was a big. deal it wasn't the idea that the. Puritans were all over the place trying. to to drown and burn witches just wasn't. true um Salem was a um a pretty. exceptional incident even for the time. uh it was a big controversial thing and. a pretty unusual thing so uh if you have. it in your head that pure were just like. you know there's a witch burner it.

really wasn't like that no no no it was. remember I think we talked a lot like. Salem was super isolated yeah because. they were the most. puritanical and the most um D and they. just kind of cracked I think if I. remember correctly that was a good. episode yeah was that a. two-parter I don't remember I don't. either it was a good episode or episodes. that's right you want to take a break. yeah let's take a break okay we're g to.

take a break all right let's do it all. right with. josua and. Sh stuff you should. [Music].

all right so here's the deal um if you. were in a one of the puritanical um. communities um they did not like people. who went up against them too hard uh if. you went up against them too hard and. were a little too outspoken about how. things were were being done you probably. found yourself leaving and being ousted. and a couple of pretty notable people. that happened to was a guy named Roger. Williams and a woman named Anne. Hutcherson mhm um Williams was a a.

minister he was educated in Cambridge. not the not the American. Cambridge right yeah that's what they. call that town yeah the American. Cambridge new Cambridge uh he came to. Boston in 1631 moved around a bit he. seemed to be a little bit of a rabble. Rouser he wasn't sort of content to just. put his head down and go along with. everything everyone said and that was a. problem um that that was a big problem. at the time especially when it came to.

how they were uh their approach to. dealing with the local indigenous Native. American population yeah he was kind of. an idealized Puritan he believed in the. separation of church and state which is. something that purtin are either. credited with establishing in America or. are criticized for not having done it. just depends on which article you're. reading at the time right but he was. definitely in favor of the separation of. church and state and he also. was in favor of treating the Native.

Americans who they shared this area with. um respectfully not just taking their. land because the crown said they could. but like negotiating with them like. dealing with them fairly to like. purchase land and in fact he did he. purchased a large track of land from the. narraganset I think and ended up. founding Rhode Island those a I mean. Rhode Island's the small state but. that's a pretty big tract of land in. general huge tra in plan mhm uh but. Rhode Island was open for business they. were like hey if you're a Quaker come on.

over if you're a Baptist or an. anabaptist come on over you want to. learn design come on over yeah basically. anyone who wasn't a a Puritan was. welcome uh there they weren't welcome in. Massachusetts um he himself converted in. 1639 to baptism and the very first. Baptist Church in America was is right. there or I'm not sure if it's still. there or not actually but right there in. Providence I don't think they tear stuff. down in Providence so it's. still like everything that um Lovecraft.

wrote about is basically still there. yeah there's a sign there that says. Providence First Baptist and then in. parenthesis no really First. Baptist right yeah so uh the other. person you mentioned was Anne Hutchinson. and there were also tons of denters but. these two are the famous uh most famous. I should say um and Anne Hutchinson is. is very famous because she was about as. outspoken as a person could get not just. in her time but in any time like she. just did not take any Guff she was an.

incredibly intelligent and compassionate. Midwife um and she had some sort of uh. holy conversion herself like if anybody. was went through a conversion it was. probably Anne Hutchinson but she started. out as a follower of the minister John. Cotton who is the father-in-law of. increased ma grandfather of cotton. matter and initially John Cotton um had. to flee England because he was being. persecuted for for his beliefs but then. as an Hutchinson kind of broke with him.

and became a little more of a fire brand. and a dissident he ended up turning on. her with um John Winthrop and and she. was ostracized she was excommunicated. from Massachusetts for behaving in a. manner not comely for her sex that was a. quote if you've never really heard me. talk before I don't talk like. that I I've known you for a long time. never heard you say the word cely until. just now yeah so she was actually. preaching uh like you said she went.

through that conversion and she was she. was preaching uh the Holy Spirit and she. was saying you can she was one of those. people that were like hey you got a. direct line to God and the Holy Spirit. you can talk to God uh and anyone can. get this personal connection to God. anyone can go to heaven it doesn't. matter if you're a sinner it doesn't. matter uh what kind of relationship you. have with the church um it's it's a. personal and this is what you know I got. growing up with what the Baptists really.

think about these days well and I guess. all along was that it's a very personal. relationship you have with God you don't. need to go to a uh a a church even. necessarily uh you you just have that. personal relationship and you can pray. directly to God you got an open Line. yeah that's a very Protestant way of. looking at things it's like the. antithesis of the Catholic way again. yeah but Anne. Hutchinson she was basically like you. can you can banish me but God's going to. destroy this Colony her famous quote was.

yeah her famous quote was we're on a. mission from God yeah. exactly and it didn't come to pass. Massachusetts is still there but she. went off and just kind of did her own. thing um and her family moved with her. to Rhode Island apparently her husband. was extremely supportive and she was the. mother of 15 if not 16 kids and they all. moved to Rhode Island and Roger Williams. said welcome on in he said why are you. wearing sunglasses it's nighttime 15. kids mhm that was good uh some other.

people if you want to talk about people. that uh Massachusetts didn't want around. that was the Quakers um the Puritans. didn't like them because the Quakers. were just too like probably a little too. hippie dippy for them they were all. about following your inner light uh. again having a direct line to Jesus. didn't need religious officials um they. thought the Quakers were weird so the. Massachusetts colonies like we don't. want you around here uh sometimes it.

would get uh violent and ugly I believe. um over the course of a couple of years. four Quakers were hanged uh one of which. was Mary Dyer um she was one of the um. acolytes of Anne Hutchinson um who had. you know eventually obviously converted. to quakerism but you know things got so. bad uh among persecuting Quakers that. King Charles thei in 1661 finally said. you guys got to stop killing Quakers. this is not a good look. he's like leave the Quakers alone yeah.

the thing that they hated about Quakers. that. was Quaker I guess um Dogma or whatever. if that not a contradiction in terms is. that every single person alive has a. little bit of the Divine spirit in them. which means every single person alive is. worthy of respect from every other. single person alive and that really. flies in the face of that saved elitism. that the Puritans based their entire jam. on on that was a that was a big deal. they hated the Quakers for that and also.

you know the the idea that we're all. equal that Quakers believe that's not. again not at all what the Puritans. believe they saw basically the opposite. of that like I'm literally holier than. thou because I'm richer than you. essentially was a a tenant of puritanism. and one of the reasons why they still. have a bad name today is the Puritans. went through such damaging intolerance. and persecution. time after time in England decade after.

decade and then they would just turn. right around the moment they had a. measure of power and do it to other. groups that didn't agree with them so. they're remembered as being like. profoundly hypocritical as a group. largely because of that yeah absolutely. um should we finish up with a little bit. about uh the the slave trade in. Massachusetts sure cuz I think a lot of. people are like I think you're mistaken. I think you're think talking about the. south uh he mispronounced Georgia yeah.

here's how it went down uh and we should. say it was not a robust situation as far. as enslaving people in Massachusetts um. that's a spoiler uh but the leadup into. this was uh before the Mayflower uh got. there in 1620 the uh Algonquin uh. speaking people there in Southern New. England were ravaged by uh and we've. talked about this before about illness. that came over from Europe um I think it. wiped out like 90% of the population.

over a threeyear period and over in. England King James I first is like see. this is God basically saying uh this. land belongs to you so he's killing all. these people uh you know in the name of. God so we can go over there and have. this land exactly um yeah and John winr. echoed that like that was kind of the. sentiment like clearly God had cleared. the land for the English to take take. over I mean there's losing 90% of your.

population in in 3 years is yeah yeah. puriton it's tough to not take it like. that right yeah so um all of the Native. Americans even though their society was. completely upended and I guess here's my. U chance to mention 1491 again because. it covers all of this stuff man it's. been a while it has been a while but I. can't just not mention it yeah um the. there were still healthy robust tribes. of Native Americans in the area and in.

this area specifically in Central in. southern what is now Connecticut were. the peat and they essentially ran the. show there were others the naragansett. mohigans they were in the area too but. they were subjugated by the peacott pat. who were in Alliance with the Dutch and. they controlled all of the fur trading. in the area so they were a very. substantial tough group and the English. essentially as they tried to push. further and further south into. Connecticut and Below into southern New. England they ran right into the peat who. like no this is our land you're going to.

have to stay up there the English didn't. like that at all and in Fairly short. order the first truly sustained conflict. between the English and Native Americans. uh was what came to be known as the peat. War that's right uh right there at the. Connecticut colony uh they defeated them. pretty roundly um and that's basically. how the uh what kicked off enslavement. of people the cuz they got these um the.

peats the idea was hey let's get them. far away from their Homeland so they're. in a far away place where they have you. know their their will has been basically. killed to try and return to where they. came from they have no help uh nearby. because we've taken them far from home. so they sent some of those peats um to. the West Indies to trade for African uh. enslaved people in return brought them. over and and uh basically the same aim. as as you know sending Africans to uh.

the colonies was like well they're you. know they're stuck over there now and. then now we have your pequs and they're. stuck over here um it was only a few. hundred enslaved people in The Colony so. like I said it wasn't the most uh robust. thing um nothing like it was in the. South obviously but uh just the idea. that you know that kind of thing didn't. happen up there just wasn't true right. no absolutely and that pequa war in the. following um adoption of enslavement was. a huge turning point for a lot of like.

big wakeup call for a lot of the. Puritans because if you look at the. original um seal of Massachusetts. there's a Native American on there and. there's still one there today but. originally there was a cartoon bubble. where he was saying come over and help. us really and yes and a lot of the um a. lot of the uh Puritans who did arrive. arrived with that aim they were coming. for the opportunity to save the souls of. this whole group of people who had never.

been exposed to God before right and now. all of a sudden the English had waged. Total War and slaughtered peat women and. children burned Villages and then shot. people who tried to escape it was ugly. during the peat War so some people are. like what are we doing like we need to. have a reckoning about all this and I. think the elite Puritans of the. Massachusetts colony kind of came to. these people and he said I know how. you're feeling fella will'll make you. feel any better if uh we just start. selling more Timber instead of really.

reflecting on what we've done here and. right the guy kind of like wiped a tear. from his eye and sniff a little bit like. yeah that'll make me feel a little bit. better and they just kind of move. forward and in establishing Southern New. England using those same tactics from. there on out and I should say that I got. to chalk that up to um the YouTube. channel Boston history there's a. professor Allison who did a great little. like seven and a half minute video on. that whole thing so puritanism uh. declined eventually uh gradually um kind.

of like how Society goes things became. um a little less uh zealous as far as. religion goes a little more open-minded. a little more change with the times and. that was kind of the end of of. puritanism or at least you know that. kind of. puritanism um England in the 16 1680s uh. they you know really cracked down on the. independent politics in the colonies um. they said hey you got to have uh freedom. of religion over there uh if you want to.

move forward and and roll with the times. um but you know Christianity still has. plenty of those puritanical aspects to. it um in New England and then as it. spread you know throughout the rest of. the colonies for sure yeah for sure um. and there's still a huge Legacy of. puritanism today which we've kind of. peppered throughout the the whole. episode A Sterling example is me an. American Born man feeling completely. fine with being holier than thou toward.

the the Puritans that's puritanical in. nature sure um it like it so is. intolerance of others um a love of um. income inequality or at least a respect. of it among a lot of people but then. there's also like a lot of really good. stuff that are chalked up to the. Puritans too like um the American work. ethic the idea that you can pull. yourself up from your by your own. bootstraps that came out of colonial. Massachusetts for certain they had those.

food straps they did they had literal. well the buckles at least pull yourself. up by your brass. buckles um we already talked about. schooling and education yeah that was. another big one too that we can thank. them for um thriftiness not being. wasteful which I'm not sure that that. really survived into the 21st century. but that was a thing for a while in. America drinking all day yeah although. funny enough remember I said that it. started to take a downturn in the 19th. century those same descendants of the. Puritans went through what was known as.

a a Great Awakening and one of the. things that they took aim at was alcohol. consumption and so it's funny that we we. associate um looking down on alcohol. consumption with Puritans but it is kind. of descended from their descendants um. yeah yeah they were like we got a this. tailgating is getting out of hand. everybody. right uh boy that was a pretty good one. I've got one more thing there was an. American journalist who really disliked. puritanism his name's HL Menin great.

journalist um and he summed the whole. thing up I think quite nicely um he very. famously said puritanism is the haunting. fear that someone somewhere may be. happy that's good uh Chuck said that's. good I quoted HL M obviously everybody. that customarily means listener males. here yeah this is just a very sweet. email occasionally we read these from. time to time when people are just just. very very kind and uh show a kindness.

toward us so I'm going to read it okay. uh Hey guys uh and Josh Chuck Jerry Dave. by the way sure um I've been trying to. compose this email for over three years. but y'all have been on such a role. lately with topics that I feel obligated. to spill my grateful guts I hope this. isn't verging into parasocial but you. guys have been with our family for. countless road trips housework sleepless. nights commutes the birth of our twins. 12 weeks in the nicku. uh weddings vacations out ofate. surgeries for our youngest uh during a.

few of our Hospital trips we were asked. to fill out a sign on the front door. that said what our child's uh name was. and what they like or their favorite. thing and it was always between stuff. you should know and Bluey and each time. I told our nurses to put Stope you. should know that's high praise it is. High Praise I would have put Blue uh. your voices have had a soothing effect. on all of us through Monumental personal. life events through gut-wrenching Global. catastrophes uh we got the audio version. of your book and have listened through. the end of the world multiple.

times nice that's amazing you haven't. even listened to it multiple. times that's okay I don't expect you to. uh your book movie podcast article. recommendations carry loads of clout as. they are never anything short of. exceptional we have in turn recommended. you to many friends family students. healthcare workers comrades of all ages. and walks of life uh thank you for help. helping us cultivate an intellectually. stimul environment for our young ones. and inspiring us grown-ups to remain.

flexible and curious uh you expand our. understanding of the world as it is as. it has been and help us move forward in. humility towards creating a just and. Equitable future wow I know you got the. wrong email address here they're like. this is smartless right yeah. exactly uh if I keep trying to say all. the nice things I think and feel about. y'all and your show I'll be stuck. editing this email for another 3 years. hope to see you in Chicago admiringly. Nelson and Nelson sent in pictures of uh.

their beautiful family um and I. responded and said hey if you can come. to Chicago for this show then uh we. would love for you to Be Our Guest and I. haven't heard back yet so we'll see yeah. it's a cute family I saw that email too. and I was heartwarming by it just a. wonderful thing so uh and when we say Be. Our Guest that means free tickets by the. way not just we're going to give you a. welcome after you buy tickets. right they I I also love Nelson wrote in.

parenthesis after they signed it like. Mandela or months yeah hats off Nelson. uh thank you very much that was a super. kind sweet email and we really. appreciate it I I can say quite. confidently speaking for you as well. right Chuck absolutely if you want to be. like Nelson and send us a super sweet. email you can bet we love that kind of. thing just wrap it up spank it on the. bottom and send it off to stuff podcast. iheartradio.com. stuff you should know is a production of.

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