The Pinkerton Detective Agency | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW

Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a. production of iHeart. Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and there's Chuck and there's. Jerry and this is Stuff You Should Know. and we're keeping an eye on you, sucker. Did I throw you off when I. pre-recording? No, I'm always expecting anything from. you. We do our usual countdown everyone so we.

can sync sound and you do that. Here's a. little how the sausage is made. You do. that by counting down and then each of. us clapping. So you have a spike in the. audio wave file that the engineers and. editors can align so we match up. Right. And I clapped, but this time I also said. schlamile. Hoping you would say oh you set me up, huh? I'm sorry. Well, here let me say it. now. Schlamazle. There you go. Okay. Are. you ready to get on with our sausage.

party? Gross. Yeah, sure. Okay. Um, that. was nice of you to kind of give that. behind thescenes tour to everybody, Chuck. You know, that's why everyone. likes you more. Trade secrets. That's. not true. So, I've been on Reddit. Uh, whatever. Everybody likes you, including me. Especially me. At any. rate, um, so we're talking today about. the Pinkerton Detective Agency, and this. one strikes me as odd that we have. waited this long, 17 years, to finally.

talk about them. Yeah. And, uh, because. they're just so legendary, you know, like everybody knows what the Pinkertons. are. And if you don't, I'm not taking. that back because everyone else knows. what the Pinkertons are. Yeah. Uh, the. Pinkerton National Detective Agency. technically was the name of it, but they. were generally called the Pinkertons. uh led by Alan Pinkerton. And they're, you know, what they're known for is. being one of the first or perhaps the. first, and I say private detective.

agency, but not like we think of PIs, like not Sam Spade stuff. No, no, no. Just a detective agency that's. privatized like police kind of detective. work, right? And you know, they did a. lot of stuff, including uh as we'll see, uh busting up bank robbers and then. later busting up unions. Yeah, it took a. dark turn for sure. Yeah. But they got. their their start uh doing, you know, God's work by working in the. abolitionist move by helping to free.

enslave people. Yeah. Yeah. That's one. thing. So, there's a lot of stuff you'll. find when you dig into the history of. the Pinkerton Detective Agency. Um, it depends on who you're reading. Either they were pretty great and did. some really great work or they were evil. from the start. Um, and then apparently. also one of the things that complicates. it is Alan Alan Pinkerton was known to. um, kind of hype his own company, hype. his own exploits. Yeah. And some people.

interpret that as like personal. mythmaking. And whether that's correct. or not, a lot of historians have delved. into. And I think the answer generally. is it's a case by case thing. Whether. it's actually true, whether it actually. happened quite that way. Um, but for the. most part, from what I saw from. researching this is generally most of. the stuff can be accepted at surface. level for the most part. It's not like. if you if you buy into this story that. we're about to tell you that you you're. just being totally misled. So, for the.

most part, just relax is what I'm trying. to say. Yeah. So, we'll go back in time. and uh hop in the wayback machine to. witness the. birth. It's 1819 in Scotland, so it's. not a pretty sight. Uh no, giving birth. back then. But, uh little Alan Pinkerton. is born in Scotland. Uh he is the son of. a police sergeant. So, you know, law. enforcement was in his family roots. And.

he went to the United States in 1842. uh at the age of uh 23. And we should kind of mention just one. thing he was involved in early on uh in. Scotland before he left was something. called the Chartist Movement, which was. we're not going to get super into it, but it was basically a movement uh of. the working class over there that tried. one of the main things they tried to do. is extend voting rights to uh all all. men um non-land owners that is. Right.

Yeah. And um election of parliamentary. members, that kind of stuff. This. basically democratic reform in England. And at the time this was considered. radical politics. Yeah. And Alan. Pinkerton actually fled the country with. his family um because the fuzz was. looking for him essentially. And they. landed in the Chicago area, Dundee, Illinois, appropriately enough. Yeah. And uh he decided that he would become a. cooper. Yeah. Which is somebody who. makes barrels. And I guess he was a. pretty decent barrel maker because he.

did it for a little while. Yeah. They. It's a trade he learned in Scotland. So. he opened up that Cooperidge in in. Dundee like you said. Uh and a a. fortuitous incident happened as a Cooper. when he was on uh apparently this sort. of abandoned or maybe just not claimed. land cutting wood looking for wood for. barrels and he discovered a hideout of. some uh counterfeits. He rustled up a. posi, got some citizens together and. captured them and for his efforts got a.

lot of local notoriety and they said, "Hey, how about you become deputy. sheriff here in Kain County, Illinois?". And this was in 1846. And he said, "Well, I guess dad was a was a copper. and uh so maybe I should be too or a. quasi copper at least." Yeah. This was. actually before Chicago had an. established police force. Yeah. Um and. it was a big deal to be a cop. And if. you were a cop, they also called them. watchmen because in a lot of cases. that's what it amounted to. Like these.

these men would not go into the highest. crime areas and they would avoid the. most dangerous criminals. Um and there. were just a few handfuls of them. Uh but. Pinkerton um made a name for himself. very quickly as somebody who um had just. like a a sixth sense for um just knowing. when somebody was up to no good and. following them and seeing what they were. up to. For being fearless. Yeah. And for. um not accepting bribes. He was as. honest as the day is long as far as.

bribery is concerned. And that made him. stand out. and uh he started kind of. moving up the ranks pretty quickly and. moved from Kain County to Cook County. where um he worked in the assessor's. office protecting Steven Spielberg. Well, I'm not sure I get the reference. from Blues Brothers. Remember, wasn't. Steven Spielberg the Cook County. assessor eating the sandwich when they. come to pay the taxes? Uh Frank Oz? No, Frank Oz was the the guy in the.

property room. Oh, was Spielberg in. that, too? Okay. I'm pretty sure he was. the assessor at the Cook County. Assessor's Office. I believe you. I just. I don't I shamefully don't know Blues. Brothers as well as clearly you do. So, either I'm like really just making this. stuff up, but we've had this. conversation and you were fully on board. with Spielberg being the assessor. Oh, you know me. And I mean, this was like. two weeks ago. No, it wasn't. I'm okay. It wasn't two weeks ago, but we have had.

this conversation. I know we have. I've. just turned 54, so things are slipping. All right, I I'll ease off. Uh yeah, so. that's what happened. Uh eventually he. would also be a special agent for the US. Post Office. Um and finally in 1850 he. started the uh detective agency uh the. Pinkerton National Detective Agency that. apparently was the first detective. He. was named the first detective in. Chicago, I think, previous to this at. just 31 years old. And from the. beginning from 1850 till the end of.

emancipation uh like I mentioned uh from. the outset he he worked to assist uh the. the escape and freeing of enslaved. people. Uh I think he even had a stop. like volunteered a stop on the. Underground Railroad. Yeah. So there was. one he apparently was bosom friends with. um John Brown as he put it. He had a. real chance to coin the term bosom. buddies but he didn't do it. Bosom. friends. Yeah. It doesn't have the ring. does it? No, it really doesn't. But John. Brown, the uh white abolitionist gorilla.

essentially made a raid on a few farms. in Missouri and ended up freeing 11. enslaved people and leading them uh to. Canada. And one of the one of the stops. was with Alan Pinkerton in Chicago and. Pinkerton by this time was wealthy. enough that he paid for I guess the. train ride from Chicago onto Detroit for. everybody who uh John Brown had busted. out. So he definitely was an. abolitionist and from what I read it was.

like from the moment he landed in the. United States he was an abolitionist. This wasn't like him pumping up his. image years later. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Um so a lot of the other work they were. doing they were doing other you know. work as an agency um besides working in. the in the emancipate or I guess the. abolitionist movement. Uh but this was. you know again in and around Chicago. that didn't have a real police. department at the time. and he uh they. didn't exactly work as cops though. It. was sort of this weird hybrid of a.

thing. Like they were um it wasn't like. uh police. It wasn't like a private. detective agency, but they also weren't. like full-on cops. It was kind of hard. to define at the time. Yeah. Um I think one of the big. distinction was they weren't out there. like actively seeking crime as part of. the public good. They were hired to find. like specific things, right? Specific. criminals or to prevent specific crimes. by corporations typically. And one of.

the early um employers or clients, I. guess, were the railroads because at the. time um people would steal from. railroads left and right. There were. just so many goods going across the. United States. It was just too tempting. Um, and they started, I think the first. railroad, possibly, if not one of the. first, was the Illinois Central. Railroad. Uh, and they they worked. security and did detective work for this. railroad. And this would be a. significant um client for Pinkerton to.

land throughout the rest of his life. because the corporate attorney for the. Illinois Central Railroad at the time. was Abraham Lincoln and the president of. the railroad was uh William Mlen. And. when you put those two together, you. have some high-powered Civil War people. on the Union side. And as we'll see, Alan Pinkerton joined them in the Civil. War. Yeah. If if you've ever seen uh. there weren't a lot of photographs back. then, but there's a very famous. photograph of Lincoln at Antidum. Have. you ever seen this one? Is it? Yeah, I.

was looking at it today. Yeah. So, that's Pinkerton on the left. He's with. two dudes uh standing in front of that. canvas tent. And that's uh Pinkerton on. the left and Major General John Mc. McLaren on the right of Lincoln who uh I. always just not forget but anytime you. see a photo like that where you and. there aren't many where you see like. full size the fulls size Lincoln doll, right? Yeah. Or cardboard cutout. He's. just impossibly tall for back then. Uh, and then that stove pipe hat just adds. to it obviously, but I don't know if he.

wore that hat to further imit intimidate. people, but um he was just such a tall, lanky guy. It's just oddlooking for that. time period. For sure. I have trouble. anytime I say stovepipe hat, not saying. stove top hat instead of potatoes. I was. raised on stove top stuffing. Did you eat that stuff? Yeah. H We never. got to eat that stuff. My mom didn't buy. that stuff. Yeah. Um, we ate that stuff. for sure. We ate all sorts of weird. stuff like that. Is it just like.

dehydrated bread crumbs? Yes. But very. tasty and herbs and stuff. Mhm. And what. do you do? You just mix mix it with some. or put it on a uh casserole topper. Uh. you put it in a pot um with some Wait, you boil a little water uh and then you. add it to the water. Soaks up the water. and then you add like 10 sticks of. butter, which is really what drives the. whole thing home. There you go. And then. Yeah. You put it uh in your mouth. directly from the pot typically. All. right. Well, this episode is clearly.

brought to you by Stovetop Stuffing. instead of potatoes. Hey, one other. thing, too, while we're on a tangent. I. mentioned Sam Spade earlier. I cannot. recommend enough the limited series Mure. Spade. I think it's on Netflix starring. Clive Owen. Have you seen it? I have. not. Oh my god, it's so good. But at the. same time, I've never seen such a. tightly. um constructed show just come totally. off the rails in like the last hour in a.

bad way. Yeah. I mean, ultimately, compared to. the rest of the show, it's it's bad. But. it's almost like they forgot that they. had to wrap it up and they just shot a. scene and that was it. and it was like. so totally improbable and just stood out. so far from the rest of the series that. you're just like what? But luckily the. rest of the series is so great it. doesn't really damage it at all. Oh. well, you led me down the right path. with Black Dove, so I'll give it a shot. I'm I'm really glad you guys like that. Did you finish it? Yeah. Yeah, it's.

good. That one fell apart at the end, too. Uh you think? Mhm. Huh. I liked it. Maybe you just don't like things ending. Yeah, I hadn't thought about that. Maybe not. All right. Uh, back to who. are we talking about here? Pinkerton, not Stovepipe or Stuffing. Um, so like I. said, he was or like you said, I guess. he was buddies with Lincoln. Um, preivil. war and had gotten to know uh what was.

his name? Uh, William Mlen, the who had become the. general, the head of the Union forces. That's right. So, that leads us to a. story, a pretty major story early on. I. guess it's not that early on. It's about. 11 years into the detective agency. Mhm. But uh Pinkerton learned of a. assassination plot against President. elect Lincoln at the time and there was. a a barber in Baltimore uh from uh from. Corsica. His name was Cypriano. Farendini. Very nice. And he wanted to.

kill Abraham Lincoln uh when he was. coming through Baltimore when Lincoln. was on his way to Washington. Mhm. And. uh Pinkerton, you know, found out about. this and was like, "You're not gonna. kill my buddy. I'm gonna thwart your. plan." Yeah, he did. Um this was. apparently like part of a general plan. to prevent Lincoln from making it to his. inauguration in Washington. Right. Just. kill him in Baltimore. Problem solved. Right. So, um, as Lincoln got toward.

Baltimore, they they enacted a plan. where he was taken off of the train at a. stop, I think like Harrisburg or. something right before um, Baltimore. Okay. and he was disguised and he he. basically played the brother of a woman. named Kate Warren who is a detective who. we'll talk about in a second and she. escorted him on another train through. Baltimore that went through at night. again in disguise. No one knew who he. was. And one of the things that kind of.

came out of this story that was so. significant was that Kate Warren stayed. up all night and watched over Abraham. Lincoln on this train ride to Washington. DC. And um that kind of coined this term. or this slogan that they adopted, we. never sleep. And led to the logo which. was this open eye like the allseeing eye. that's watching you that never sleeps. And that that eventually led to the just. the the term private eyes, right? Yes. Exactly. Yeah. I imagine Lincoln was a.

pretty hard guy to disguise now that I. think about his height, that. mustacheless beard, and that hat. Like. they're probably like, "Take off the. hat." To begin with, very first things. first, get that hat off your head, right? Get that stove top hat off your. head. And they got a Sharpie. They drew. on a. mustache. And then they they probably. put him uh if they would have been. smart, they would have put him like in a. a wheelchair or something, which they. may have. Right. I saw that that he was. um I guess the term that you would use.

today is like he posed as a handicap. brother to Kate Warren. Oh, there you. go. Oh, and uh told him to lower his. voice. Right. You're very good to meet you. That was very shocking still when. everyone saw Lincoln and Daniel D. Lewis. came out like this. Yeah, I know. I know it was quite a choice and only. Daniel D. Lewis would have been allowed. to do that too. Totally. Anybody else? The director would have been like, "What. are you doing?" Yeah, exactly. You don't. question him. Uh, so you mentioned Kate.

War. Uh, is it Warren and not Warie? I. think it's Warren. Okay. W. Um, she's. very notable, too, though. aside from. just assisting in this uh plot to save. Lincoln or I guess action to save. Lincoln against the plot. uh she was a a detective like Pinkerton. in a very forward-thinking sort of way. in 1856. um hired her after she convinced him. like hey you got you know there are. things that women can do places we can. infiltrate information we can get in.

ways that men cannot and he saw the. value in that hired her and then I think. but four years later uh made her head of. the female detective bureau so they kind. of staffed up with some some women to. work in these undercover. Yeah. And it's really like this was. unheard of. So 1856 is when he hires. her. The first actual sworn police woman. that I could find in the United States. was a woman named Lola Baldwin in.

Portland, Oregon in Yeah. In 1908. Okay. So 44 + 8 is 54 52 years. Yeah. 52 years. ahead of schedule. Pinkerton hired a. woman and made her a very famous. detective and just super smart, you. know, cuz she was right on the money. I'm sure they were great assets to their. cause. For sure. You want to take a. break? Yeah, let's do it. [Music].

[Applause]. [Music]. Okay. All. [Music]. [Applause]. [Music]. right, so we're back uh with more on. Pinkerton. uh the Civil War would begin.

and Lincoln put uh George Mlelen, who. we've, you know, previously mentioned as. someone who knew Pinkerton through the. railroad business, put him in charge of. the Army of the PTOAC. And he said, "Hey, Pinkerton does pretty good work. I'm going to bring this guy in as sort. of a a head spy. We'll call it a like a. secret service division." and he worked. under Allan Pinkerton that is worked. under the code name Major EJ Allen and. was pretty good at rooting out spies but. not so good at intelligence gathering.

and interpretation. No. Uh he rooted out a spy ring led by a. woman named Rose O'Neal Greenhow who was. a southerner but was still like the. toast of Washington DC society and she. was really running a a like very. sophisticated and very developed spy. ring for the Confederacy and he found. her out busted everybody. It was a big. deal. Yeah. But with estimating troop. strength, no. Um he he may have.

single-handedly added years onto the. Civil War when he told Mlen, General. Mlelen, that he estimated the. Confederates had um between I think 100. or 200,000 troops. Yeah, I saw 200. Yeah. So at the time, Robert E. Lee had. 40,000 to 45,000 troops. So he grossly. overestimated it. and Mlen had something. like 76,000 troops. So they could have. very easily overwhelmed the Confederacy.

early on. Yeah. Had Pinkerton not. overestimated the troops. And had I also. saw Mlelen didn't vet that information. at all. He just took it on face. And by. the way, all of you Civil War buffs, if. you can go back and unend your emails, it's not William Mlelen, it's George B. Mlen. I'm sorry. I misspoke. Oh, I think. I said William, too, didn't I? Or did I? I led you down the wrong path. Okay. Uh. so Pinkerton would eventually leave his. role in military intelligence. Uh I.

think this was in 1862 after Mlen who. had hired him was uh demoted. essentially. He he lost his uh uh. whatever uh not rank, huh? Position. Yeah, I guess he lost his position as as. as rank leader or whatever. Those are made up of terms. not going to. be emailed by Civil War buffs at all. Uh, and then he said, "All right, let me. go back." You know, he still had his. private detective agency,

right? So, let me go back to doing that. Um, and I guess we can talk a little bit. about some of the other innovations, you. know, aside from hiring women to work as. as infiltrators and moles. Uh, he he and. I believe we've talked about this in one. of our crime episodes. Yes. Uh, did we. do one on mug shots or just I think it. came up cuz databases maybe. Yeah. Alance Bertion um or Berolon he he in. the uh I think like the 1840s came up. with the idea of mug shots, fingerprints.

using um like head measurements to to. basically create a database of criminals. so they couldn't pose as other people. And I guess that um Pinkerton heard. about this and brought it to the United. States. Yeah. But when he brought it to. the United States, he's he wanted to. sort of codify it, I guess, and make it. a more usable system and standardize. everything. So he, you know, made all. the pictures the same size. He. essentially made little yearbooks. He. made got handwriting samples and he.

would make these books and he would send. them out and uh they called it the. Rogues Gallery and it was sort of the. beginning of of the, you know, the. United States criminal database. Yeah. And each picture had a senior. superlative underneath it. So there was like most likely to. unnecessarily shoot uh someone you're. robbing in the knee. Yeah. Stuff like. that. That's good. I also saw that this. was so sophisticated that it wouldn't be. until the uh FBI was formed that um. something like a criminal database like.

this would be expanded upon basically. Did you get a senior superlative? I did. Most most likely to talk about criminal. databases. Oh, did I in in reality? I. don't think. so. No, because my my senior quote was, "Leave me alone.". We had fun ones and then real ones, like. official ones, and I got one of each. Oh, well, what were they? I got uh. actually I got two of the unofficials.

For the unofficials, I got. uh best style. Oh, nice. That's really. saying something in high school, man. I. guess so. I don't I'm not sure how I won. that one, actually. Um, and then I got. most fun on a date, which was very. ironic because I literally dated one. person my senior year and I was just the. good friend to all the girls that I. wanted to date. Wow. I was that guy. But. then the official ones that were in the. yearbook, uh, best all-around boy. Jeez, man. I see you in a different.

light now. Well, you know, it's pretty I. still got to have my t-shirt. I'll wear. it occasionally. Best allaround boy. Best allaround boy. I think that's your. new nickname. Uh B A. RB B. Well, best all around technically. Oh, I say all round, but then again, I. call stove top hats. Well, so best best. ba Barb, right? Yeah. All right. Just call me Barb from. now on. Okay, Barb. I have a beloved.

aunt named Barb. Do I do too? Or Emily. does, so she's sort of my aunt as well. Yeah, you can claim her. All right. So, uh there's another thing that um uh that. Pinkerton did to really kind of help. establish his um his agency is like just. nationally recognized and also kind of. heroes. They were considered heroes. across the United States because they. went after bad guys and they usually got. their man. They were very persistent and.

dogged. Sometimes they would pursue. criminals for years. Yeah. like it. wasn't like, "Well, we tried for a month. and we we gave up." Like they would just. keep going until they found the person. They would pursue them into Canada. sometimes um into Mexico and beyond. And. I guess one of the reasons why they were. revered is because they had a code of. conduct that was like strictly um. implemented. It was things like like we. will take no bribes, which is a big one. at the time. Oh yeah. Probably still is.

now. Um, we'll never compromise with. criminals. Yeah. Um, we will partner. with local law enforcement when. possible. Okay. This one stood out to. me. I thought this was kind of. upstanding. They wouldn't take divorce. cases or any case that could create a. scandal for anybody. Yeah. I thought. that was pretty cool. Yeah. Pretty. standup. Uh, they also turned down. reward money. Um, and they he paid his. agents pretty well apparently. Mhm. Uh, and this is just sort of business nuts.

and bolts, but he had a pledge to never. raise fees without the client knowing. Like, in other words, I'm not going to. hand you a bill at the end. That's not. what we talked about, right? Uh, and. also um would just keep all of his. clients very well informed. He they had. internal rules that were like um I think. in the pamphlet the general principles. of Pinkerton's National Detective. Agency. Mhm. Um they said things like um. the agent must be of a high order of. mind, must possess clear and honest. comprehensive understanding, force of. will, vigor of body, and you can't drink.

on the job unless you absolutely have. to. As assumed assumingly some uh part. of like some mole situation where you're. like, "Hey, do you want to go to the bar. with us?". Right. Or you better drink this rye. whiskey or else we'll know you're a. Pinkerton man. Exactly. Uh they also. unless you had a direct order from your. superior to you weren't allowed to use. alcohol to get like um uh confessions or. anything out of suspects either get.

someone super drunk. Yeah. Yeah. I mean. these are all pretty great like codes of. conduct back then. Totally. Yeah. I I. did not see any stories of like rogue. Pinkerton agents or that this was all. just you know a whitewashing and they. actually didn't behave like this at all. They do seem to have been pretty. upstanding. And then so the other thing. that really expanded the legend of the. Pinkertons and probably in part of why. we still understand or know them today. is um Alan Pinkerton wrote a bunch of. books or at least published a series of.

books under his name. Yeah. That were. like true crime detective stories. Yeah. Um this would have been in the 1860s, 1870s, I think. Um so this is like the. dawn of detective stories, I think. I. would think I don't remember when Po. wrote Murder in the R morg. Was that the. first detective story? I don't know. But. it I mean it was it was early on in the. going for sure. It was ahead of its. time. Yeah. One of the most famous ones. was the detective in the somnambulist,

right? Yes. Uh and that is one in which. he as the character and Kate Warren as. her character. Uh they catch a murder. They go undercover, of course, and catch. a murderer and a bank robber um using a. Pinkerton agent as always that posed as. a ghost to get a get a confession. Yeah, I saw there was another one where Kate. Warren posed as a fortune teller to get. a confession out of somebody. Oh, that's. pretty smart. Yeah, but these are like. the books that they're saying like this. was this is what we did. And I mean like.

if this was even remotely close, it must. have been thrilling to have been a. Pinkerton detective at this time because. this is again when they were just a. cause celeb in America and did not have. the blemish reputation that they have. today. Yeah. And and a book potentially. being like a character in a book uh. would be, you know, back then is sort of. tanamount to like they they made a TV. show about us or something. Yeah. And we. played like a semifictional version of. ourselves or something like that. Yeah,

exactly. Uh, one of the other things. they were known for, Chuck, was nabbing. outlaws in the Wild West because as the. United States expanded westward, uh, and. the frontier just kept going, it was a. wild and rockous and lawless place. You. might have a marshall. I know we talked. about the Marshall Service serving as. the law enforcement out west, but there. it was kind of far and few between. So, the Pinkertons filled a real need at the.

time because one of the first things. that developed after the Civil War was. train robberies. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, you. got these, like you said earlier, it's a. pretty good take when you rob a train. Uh, and, you know, you get them out in. the middle of nowhere, which is kind of. the great the great thing about robbing. trains, everybody. Yeah. Is you can. just, you know, ride your horses up. You've seen all the movies in the middle. of nowhere where there's no one around. to help. But in this case, the. Pinkertons are there. Um, one of the. first gangs that they got uh was the.

Reno gang. Um after the civil war they. started robbing uh trains in Indiana and. Missouri and banks and other places but. um not from Reno but they were the Renos. John Frank Simeon and William Reno. Mhm. And in October 1866 for instance they. robbed uh the Ohio and Mississippi. Express to the tune of $15,000 in 1866. money which is a huge huge hall. um were. arrested, but they posted bail and then.

started robbing again kind of right away. uh trains and banks. And so the. Pinkertons were like, "We're on the. job." Um I think the Adams Express. Company was like, "We've had enough. We. got to hire these guys." Yeah. In the. two years that the Reno gang was active, they um stole about a half a million. dollars in 1860s money. Wow. That was a. ton of cash. They were very successful. So yeah, they definitely caught the. attention of the train companies. Adams. Express hires uh the Pinkertons and um. they start hunting down the Reno gang.

and this is a good example of them just. using dogged persistence over and over. and over again. They just kind of one by. one captured the gang members. Um the. first was John Reno. Uh not Jean Renault. from Twin Peaks. I had that same joke. Um they they got him first. Yeah. He may. have been the leader as far as I know. They also caught a guy named Charles. Roseberry who was a member of the gang. And I don't know if they were expecting.

this or not, but the um the locals who. were with them when they caught Charles. Roberry um strung him up and hung him. right there. Yeah. When they when they. caught him and I didn't see like what. the Pinkertons thought about this kind. of thing. Yeah. I mean, I think a lot of. those guys were were lynched and hanged. And um yeah, I don't know. I'm not sure. if if uh that's a good question actually. if that was I mean obviously it wasn't. his call but um after he hands them over. but I wonder if he was like oh boy I.

mean how about a how about a trial at. least right this doesn't seem to jive. with the code of conduct yeah exactly I. also saw they recovered about $300,000. in cash in at least one instance so you. definitely got your money's worth when. you hired the Pinkertons to nab wild. west train robbers yeah I bet they. weren't cheap though I tried to find out. kind of how much they were paid But if. he was paying his agents well, which he. supposedly did, then I'm sure they were. not a cheap hire. No. And then things. kind of went pear-shaped for the.

Pinkertons. As far as I can tell, this. was the first time the Pinkerton's. reputation took a a real hit with the. James Gang. Yeah. They went after the. James gang led by Frank and Jesse James. I didn't know this. Yeah. But they were. um terrorists, Confederate terrorists. during the Civil War in Missouri. That's. where they were from. Mhm. And Missouri. was um this powder keg that actually. kind of helped kick off the Civil War. because. um I guess abolitionists and pro-slavery.

people came together to settle Missouri. and they did not get along. And during. the Civil War, one of the things the. James gang did was murder union. supporters in Missouri. Yeah. Not even. on the front lines. These weren't even. soldiers. These were civilians. They. were just running around killing and. terrorizing. Yeah, for sure. Uh and you. know after the war of course they gained. further notoriety uh by robbing. everything in sight you know trains, banks, stage coaches, you name it. Mhm. And Jesse sort of built up this uh.

oh what do you call it? Like a sort of a. of legendary status among the the poor. and working class that he was some kind. of a a Robin Hood type even though. there's no indication that he was ever. like robbing to give to the poor, right? But people would, you know, hide them. and take care of them and stuff like. that for some reason. Um but at any. rate, in 1874, the Pinkertons were hired. to catch these guys, uh Frank and Jesse, and they sent um an agent in to. infiltrate the gang. His name was. Joseph, uh Witcher, and he did a pretty.

good job until they found out that he. was an informant and he was murdered, which uh kind of started the downhill. tumble. Yeah, Alan Pinkerton took this. quite um personally. Oh, yeah. There's a. quote from him saying that as far as. capturing Jesse and Frank James, there's. no use talking. They must die. Yeah. So, if they were wanted dead or alive, he. was going to bring him in dead for sure. And in 1875, early on in the year, they.

went to the James' family home in. Missouri. And um Jesse and Frank James. weren't home. They've been tipped off. that the Pinkertons a bunch with a bunch. of local pro-UN supporters were going to. be there to capture them. So, they. weren't there. But apparently the um the. Pinkertons and their assistants didn't. know this. Somebody the Pinkerton said. this was a local that did this that they. did not do this. Um somebody threw a. lantern into the home. I saw in the. hopes of illuminating things better.

Well, the lantern exploded. Yeah, exactly. Um, the lantern exploded, killed their 8-year-old half-brother. Archie, and blew their mom Zeralda's arm. off. So, they've killed a young boy and. maimed an older woman, and the. Pinkertons are the ones who took the the. hit reputation wise. Yeah. And after all. that, you know, PR work, um, a lot of. that was undone or, uh, because of this, basically. Um, but it's not like they've. shut down or anything. And didn't they.

go after some other gangs, too? Yeah, very famously they they were the ones. that chased uh Butch Cassidy and. Sundance, the Sundance kid down to. Bolivia where the Bolivian army killed. them. And they were famous for catching. and sumearily executing all the members. of the Apple Dumpling gang. All right, we'll take a break now. Okay, I'm going to contemplate that joke and. we're going to come back and talk about. what the Pinkertons were kind of known. for from this point forward. Right after.

this. [Music]. [Applause]. [Music]. [Music]. [Applause]. H. Okay. So, uh, after the Wild West.

kind of came and went, they got into, um, corporate affairs firmly on the side. of the corporation. At the time, there. was a lot of labor movements, a lot of. workers rights stuff going on. And don't. forget, Alan Pinkerton had to flee uh, the UK because he was such a radical um, labor supporter. Mhm. Now his agency is. the premier. um security group and labor organization.

infiltrators. This is what they started. doing and this is where their the bad. name, the blemish on their name that's. still around today really started to. develop because they they would at this. point do whatever corporations wanted. them to do as long as they paid them. Yeah. And you know what corporations. generally wanted them to do was bust up. the unions. uh was to infiltrate the. companies and bust up unions uh which is. what they ultimately started doing for. you know a lot of money. Um it started.

out as an employee testing service in. 1855 and sort of grew over the next few. years. And initially it was like hey. let's get uh some moles in there and see. if we can uncover like. um illegal activity people stealing from. the company and stuff like that. But. then that's understandable. Yeah. Totally. But then that sort of expanded. and I guess the people hiring were like, "Hey, since you're in there, why don't. you kind of let us know what's going on, what they're talking about, and like if. they like management, if they're.

discontented, um, and if they're, you know, most. importantly, if they're starting to. organize and talk about forming a a. labor society, which, you know, of. course would ultimately be a union.". Yes. Uh this became such a a a part of. their job that the order of railway. conductors started warning their members. that there's Pinkertons undercover who. are watching you and not just watching. you to to see if you're stealing, they're watching you to see if you want. to form a union. And this was the I mean.

this was a terrible direction for them. to start to go down because this was. such a um militant time. I mean there. were like anarchists running around like. throwing bombs in the United States. There were labor unions that soldiers. were sometimes brought out to shoot. I. mean, it was a really rough time as far. as like labor and management goes. because there was just this struggle to. say who owns the the fruit of our labor. Yeah. You who's paying for the raw. materials or us who's actually turning.

those raw materials into the end. product. And maybe it's not one or the. other, but I guarantee it's more than. the share that you're giving us. Uh. factory owner and this so this struggle. became violent in many many times and. again like I said the Pinkertons landed. firmly or started out firmly on the side. of corporations and they stayed there. Yeah. Uh we should probably highlight. the Molly Magcguiars that was one of the. more famous cases. um they were a secret. society in Ireland initially and then in.

1860s in Pennsylvania kind of reemerged. from uh Irish immigrants because they. were coal miners there and at the time. they were facing a lot of discrimination. uh the job conditions were not good uh. working long hours they were very. dangerous uh and they were you know a. lot of times living in company housing. paid in company script that they could. only spend at the company store they. were just completely folded into this. corporation as um almost enslaved people. in some ways. Um you know ultimately.

they had their freedom of course but it. was they were they were owned by the. company essentially. Uh finally in the. 1860s supervisors started. uh receiving these coffin notices. basically from the workers saying hey. we're the Molly Magcguires and uh coffin. notice means that your time on earth is. is nigh and you're not going to be. around very long. Uh, so the writing was. on the wall that things were about to. turn violent. Yeah. And it did start to.

get violent and I saw that the Molly. Maguiers started murdering and. assassinating some of the um some of the. members of the corporation like Foreman. Yeah. Who were the the people they. worked with the most directly and who. were the most brutal toward them. But I. also saw that this was in retaliation. for members of the Molly Maguires being. murdered first. Yeah. Either way, it. turned violent pretty terribly. Uh what. the Molly Maguiers did not know is that. there was a Pinkerton man uh who they. knew as James McKenna, but whose real.

name was James McParlland, who had spent. two years by now working undercover and. ingratiating himself with the Molly. Maguiars or even beyond the Molly. Magcguiars, just the Irish coal miners. who worked in and lived in this area. So. much so he became the secretary of the. the local lodge of the ancient order of. Hiberians, an Irish Catholic fraternal. organization. So he really worked his. way into it and he got a lot of intel on. them and ultimately turned states.

evidence and got 20 men uh. executed almost exclusively on his. testimony. Yeah, for sure. On charges of. murder, arson, and kidnapping. Uh 10. were hanged in. 1877, 10 were then hanged in 1878, I. guess. Mhm. And this is one of the most. like insider jobs of all time. Uh I. think there was a historian Harold Arand. who said it was one of the most.

astonishing uh astounding excuse me. surreners of sovereignity in American. history because what happened was uh. Franklin Gowen who was the guy who ran. the company who hired the Pinkertons to. begin with he was the uh chief. prosecutor. So it it was all this inside. job. These guys were uh arrested by a. private police force and then the coal. company's attorneys prosecuted them and. the the only thing that that the state.

did was like here use this courtroom and. use our our uh gallows or whatever and. other than that it was all just a. private job to like find and execute. these guys. Yeah. Many of whom who were. considered to have been innocent. They. were innocent men who were executed. again almost exclusively on James. McParlland, this Pinkerton man's. testimony. Um, and yeah, it was just a a. total travesty from start to finish. And. Pennsylvania did pardon uh one of the. men, John Kho, in 1979, about a hundred.

years too late for John Kho, but it was. kind of a symbolic thing saying like, "Yeah, we we really screwed up in. letting this company essentially form. their own court and trial and. executions." Probably more famous though. is the um Pinkerton's role in the. Homestead strike in Homestead, Pennsylvania at one of the Carnegie. steel mills. Yeah. So in 1892 there was. a union contract that expired for that. steel company in in Pennsylvania there.

in Homestead and Henry Clay Brick and. Andrew Carnegie couple of robber barons. we've talked about in the past uh said. all right we're going to cut wages back. we're going to break the this union. which was the Amalgamated Association of. Steel and Iron Workers and Carnegie said. I'm out of here. I'm going to leave the. country. Uh Henry Clay uh Henry. Clayfrick got involved sort of doing uh. the the dirty work on the ground. Yeah. And he said, "All right, I'm going to. hire the Pinkertons. Uh we're not even. negotiating yet. I'm going to bring.

these guys in to to essentially act as. as guards to lock these people out.". Yeah. And so 300 Pinkertons showed up on. July 6th, 1892. They were pulled down. the river on barges and they were all. armed to the teeth with Winchester. rifles and Colt 45s and all the modern. guns you could hope for. Um, and when. they arrived they were met with I think. two or 3,000. uh homestead um not just steel workers.

but neighbors, community members, just. people who were supporting the strikers. Angry too. Yeah, they were really mad. not just because they they were in the. midst of the strike, but because this. private police force had shown up to. intimidate them or possibly kill them. the way that they were armed. And so a. battle ensued. Like there's no other. word for it. It was a 12 or 15 hour. battle. Um only a dozen people died, but. it that's amazing to me. As violent as.

this battle was, they tried to they or I. should say they pushed a flaming train. car at the barges to try to kill the. Pinkertons. Like that was just one thing. that the strikers did. Like it was. really violent. Yeah. I mean, it is. shocking that only a dozen people died. Uh I guess it's a testament to how bad. of a shot they were. Yeah, it really was. collectively. Um of course the workers, you know, they they surrendered. the. Pinkertons did because they were just so. far outnumbered even though most of the.

um I think most of the dozen were the. workers that died but the Pingertons. knew that they were vastly outnumbered. Yeah. So they surrendered but the. workers lost because uh Henley uh Henry. Clayf frick man I have a hard time with. that one. You keep wanting to say people. I know Henry Clay people got 8,500. National Guard troops sent in um after. the Pinkertons left and of course you. know they broke the Union and said we're. going to decrease your wages. we're. going to increase how much you have to. work. And this just became sort of a.

cyclical thing that was happening. Um. the the Pinkertons uh early on they were. pretty good at infiltrating, but when it. came to breaking these unions, the. federal government would come in with. the troops and do a far better job uh at. doing so. Yeah. Because strikers. typically recognize federal troops as. more legitimate than a private police. force showing up, you know. Yeah. And. just more people with more arms. Yeah. They had gatling guns like as. demonstrated at the end of the Wild. Bunch. That's right. You don't want to.

mess with those. So yeah, from those of. us like looking back today, you might. think, well, that's just what they did. back then, which is messed up, but. that's just that was the norm. Not true. Congress actually investigated this. incident. They were like, that is pretty. screwed up that you hired the Pinkertons. and brought in the National Guard to. essentially put this town under martial. law. And as a matter of fact, um, Congress urged states to like pass laws. to make it so that corporations couldn't. hire private companies to break to break.

unions, and Ohio went so far as to say. the Pinkertons themselves are now. illegal here. Yeah. Yeah, that's true. Um, so I mean, that really changed. everything for the Pinkertons. They're, as far as strike breaking goes, it took. a huge hit. Uh, couldn't get a lot of. work after that. But they did go on. They did uh anti-UN espionage work, of. course. Uh this is something I never. knew at all was that they they just they. kept going. They were acquired in 1999.

Yeah. By Securitas. And uh I had no idea. um that they went on that that much. further after Pinkerton's death. After. Alan Pinkerton's death. Yeah. They they. trade on the name still for sure. Um, but it's it's a massive company, I. think, with like 50,000 employees and. and um offices all over the world. Uh, but they still use the Pinkerton name. Like you can hire Pinkerton for. corporate security. Uh, apparently. they'll ride along on container ships to. protect against pirates. Wow. They. served as guards at Marilyn Monroe's.

funeral. Yeah. Back in the 60s. I also. saw that same year they escorted the. Mona Lisa from France to the US. Oh, which is, you know, they could probably. just do that under an overcoat. That. thing's pretty small. It is fairly. small. Uh, and then one other thing. where they pop up, and this made me. wonder if this is where this idea came. from. Apparently, they're bad guys in. the video game Red Dead Redemption 2, which I know for a fact that you've. played. They very much are. Uh, figure. very heavily into that story line if you.

play the the story part of that. Is that. where you got the idea to do one on. them? No, because I haven't played that. in a long time. Um, I'm not sure where I. got it. It may have. been I don't know. I'm not really sure. Uh they also figure in a bunch of. movies, of course. Uh they were in. Deadwood. Uh they were in The Long. Riders in the 80s. Uh and friend of the. show Paul Schneider. Mhm. Uh was in the. great great movie from 2007, The. Assassination of Jesse James by the. coward Robert Ford. And they the the.

Pinkerton's figure pretty heavily in. that movie, too. That was a good movie. Um we should talk about the death of. Alan Pinkerton real quick, Chuck. Yeah, it's pretty unusual. Uh he died July. 1st, 1884, uh right before his 65th. birthday. And as the story goes, he. slipped on a street in Chicago and bit. his tongue. Uh something which I did. when I was a kid. I had 12 stitches. across the center of my tongue to put. that thing back together when I was like. 12. Uh but I did not die because I'm.

still here. But uh Pinkerton died as a. result of this because it turned. gangrous. Yeah. He wouldn't go get it treated and. it just kept getting worse and that was. it for him, man. Yeah. He uh was put to. rest near his wife. Um and very uh. interestingly, he also um in his family. plot buried Kate Warren because he so. admired this is the first female. detective ever hired. He so admired her. and her work that he had her buried with.

him. She was uh still alive and was very. unhappy about this, but he he admired. her that much. That's super cool. So, she's there with with him. Uh maybe I. guess some of his sons are there and his. uh his wife Joan. Yes. Wonderful. Nice, Chuck. Uh you got anything else? I got. nothing else. That's it for the. Pinkertons, everybody. At long last, and. since I said at long last, I just. triggered listener mail. That's right. Uh there's a little. follow-up on the GPS episode. Uh toward.

the end, I kind of poked fun at Garmin. as being something that uh you know, like my mom uses uh and not like a more. modern system. But it turns out Garmin. is still very popular because Deanna. sent me an email saying, "Hey, a lot of. cyclists use this stuff." And I asked. her why. I was like, "Oh, that's super. interesting." I said, "Do you know why. they have, you know, they're used by. cyclists are still around in that. capacity?" And she said, "Good question. I think there are a couple of reasons uh. why it's still the go-to for GPS. They've been around forever. Uh they've.

been making GPS for planes and boats. since the late 80s. So, they had a. really big head start. And then number. two, constant refinement. Uh while. others were just starting to develop. their products, uh Garmin was already. fine-tuning theirs and they had a. 20-year head start. So, they packed in a. ton of extra features. Uh for example, they introduced the first bike radar. system years before anyone else. And the. radar still blows the competition away. Uh, I even have a buddy. He works for. Wahoo and he still uses a Garmin radar. Very nice. Also, uh, Diana says, "They.

built a lot of brand loyalty, especially. in the cycling world. Many of us still. use them, even though the quality has. slipped just a bit in recent years. Uh, we don't like using phones on our bikes. because they're bulky and drain the. batteries really fast. And Garmin just. feels more polished and reliable for our. needs." Uh, who was that from? That was. from Deanna. Deanna Garmin. Yeah, that's. right. Thanks, Deanna. We appreciate. that. That was a great email. And if you. want to be like Deanna, you can email. us, too. Send it off to suffodcast@.

iheartradio.com. Stuff You Should Know. is a production of iHeart Radio. For. more podcasts, iMheart Radio, visit the. iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or. wherever you listen to your favorite. shows. [Music].