The Phil Hartman Story | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW

Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a. production of iHeart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm. Josh and there's Chuck and it's just us. Jerry's not here. And this is Stuff You. Should Know. The Invincible Duo. The. ambiguously gay duo. Yes, sir. You are. correct. That was pretty good. I love it. when there's like a a impression of an. impression. That's all I do. It's true.

That's my specialty. But you do it so. well. Yeah, that was that bit was uh. obviously Phil the great Phil Hartman, the late great uh Phil Hartman's Ed. McMahon. And that was a uh that was. something that in college and you know. my college years were generally the Phil. Hartman years on SNL. Mhm. My good. friend Eddie and I, you know Eddie, we. uh for some reason that one really and. still to this day, one of us will say. something and the other will go, "Yes,

sir." Yeah. I mean, it's timeless for. sure. Yeah. Really stuck with us. I'm. sure there's even people walking around. doing that who have no idea who Ed. McMahon is. Yeah, probably. There's at. least two. That's what I'm putting money. on. You and someone else. I know who Ed McMahon is. I'm not a. fully realized person. I know. I'm. joking. Um, we're not talking about Ed. McMahon, though. Not really. We're. talking about the first guy you. mentioned you were doing an impression. of, Phil Hartman, who turns out to be a. pretty great, complicated,

tragic, ultimately dude. Yeah. Uh, you know, actor and comedian, uh, known best for his work on probably. Saturday Night Live and The Simpsons. Mhm. Uh and Dave helped us with this and. he wanted us to shout out uh a book by. Mike Thomas called You Might Remember. Me: The Life and Times of Phil Hartman. with one N even though he was born with. two N's under the name Hartman. Right. Yeah. I thought that was pretty um. pretty crazy. He dropped the second N.

Yeah. For his his um I guess stage name. It looks like a typo. That would be my. guess. The second N. Yeah. It just looks. odd. Well, maybe they pronounced it a. little differently, too. like Phil. Hartman. probably. So, uh, so when he was born in. 1948 when he was still named Phil. Hartman, he was born in Brford, Ontario. And that might sound familiar to hockey. fans because that's where Wayne. Gretzky's from. But after Wayne Gretzky, I would say Phil Hartman's probably the.

second most famous person from Brford, Ontario. And boy, I hope you're right. I'm totally not. There's going to be. like Tony Kayan or something will be. from from Brainford, Ontario, although. she may still fall behind. um Phil Hartman. Uh she passed away too, I believe. Right. I don't know. I. stopped keeping up with her after she. and David Coverdale broke up. I think. Wayne Gretzky is alive though. Yes, he. is. Alive and slapping. That's right. Uh. Phil was a middle kid, number four of.

eight. And as often times with a middle. child, uh especially in Phil's case, when you have an older brother who is. like super athletic and handsome and a. younger sister that needed special care, uh because of a rare condition called. Angelman syndrome, Phil uh it seems like. felt like he needed to sort of just. attract attention by goofing off and. being uh the class clown, the family. clown. Yeah, that's what middle kids do. He had like Jan Brady syndrome, but. instead of wearing an afro wig, he. became actually funny person, right?

Yeah. Um I guess one of the big things. that happened to him was when he and his. family moved to California when he was. 10. Okay. Nine, eight, something like. that. Um he was around that age and. California like really suited his blood. I mean he was born in Ontario. when you. move to like Malibu area, like you're. that's a pretty good move typically. I I. love Toronto and I'm not like throwing. shade on Ontario in general, but you.

know, when you move out to Southern. California from there, it's it's a. little different, you know. Yeah. Especially if it turns out you love. surfing, sailing, and smoking weed or. smoking grass at the time, I guess you. would say. Yeah. The three S's. Yeah. because he uh something that I learned. yesterday was that Phil Hartman was a. big pthead. Yes. But the kind that the. cops wouldn't search your car if you got. pulled over, which is a lesson to all. those ptheads out there. You don't have. to look like a pthead to be a pthead.

Yeah. Yeah. He can look straight and. make the cops laugh and they'll just. say, "Go along your day. You're just a. fun kid." Exactly. I'll just totally. ignore that smell coming out of your. car. Yeah. So, um Yeah. He he was really. into Southern California life. Apparently, he was a great surfer by the. time he was 13, this guy was just full. of surprises. Yeah. Um and around this. time, maybe even a little earlier, he uh. he started to get into comedy. He. started doing the he took the steps that. every young comedian takes, and that's.

you start idolizing some different. comedians, stand-up comedians. And his. were um Bob um New Hart. Yeah. And uh. the other one and Jonathan Winters who. even if you don't know who Jonathan. Winters is but you're a Mor and Mindy. fan. Yeah. He was the giant old baby. that arrived in an egg at Mor and. Mindy's doorstep I guess. Yeah. And. Wyinners and New Hart actually they were. sort of comedians comedians back then in.

that era from like the 1950s and into. the 60s. Uh and both of them were just. incredible standups. Jonathan Wyinners. was so funny. Uh especially like with. character work and stuff like that, which New Hart didn't do. So between the. two of those, he got a pretty like. well-rounded comedy education, memorizing those albums, doing like I. did as a kid, memorizing comedy albums, performing bits uh for friends and. family, stuff like that. And uh. especially on Winter Side, those.

impressions that Jonathan Winters would. do, Phil Hartman would copy those and. then come up with his own. Yeah. Yeah. And very quickly he excelled past even. Jonathan Wyers. Like he was in Rich. Little area by the time he was probably. um you know mid teens. Yeah. There's a. great story they found. I think it was. from the book um that he and a bunch of. friends went skiing at Mammoth Mountain. outside of LA. And as the story goes, they were hanging around at the hot. springs that night and Phil's friend. said, "Hey man, start, you know, doing.

some of your your bits here for. everybody and impressions." And um this. sounds like one of those stories has. sort of, you know, grown over the years. Mhm. Because they say over over two. hours Phil uh performed basically in. front of a hundred strangers. Um I'm not. quite sure if I believe that part. because I've been to parties at ski. resorts hanging out at hot springs and. I'm sure he got a lot of jokes in, but. I'm not sure if everyone would just sit. there for two hours and watch some guy, right? And then one of his friends. announced, "Ladies and gentlemen, that.

was Mr. for Phil Hartman and someday. he's going to be a big star. Remember. this night. Yeah, maybe it happened, but. it's probably apocryphal, but I I bet a. version of that story happened where. Phil was like the life of the party. essentially is my takeaway. Yeah. From. from a pretty early age, right? So, he's. clearly funny. He's really good at. impressions, but his path to um comedy, I guess, was kind of ciruitous um. because he well his brother, his older.

brother, the handsome, athletic one you. mentioned earlier, John. Mhm. John. decided he wanted to try to get into. acting. And I guess this was before Phil. could even get a chance. Uh and John. went to Hollywood, came back reporting. that he was not okay with how seedy. Hollywood was. amoral, not anything like. a an Ontarian would would be okay with. Yeah. And so he said, "I'm not going to. do acting." And I think that kind of. scared Phil a little bit or at least. guided him away from acting for a little.

while. Yeah, it seems like it. Uh John. went into the music business and. co-founded a management company uh. called Hartman and Goodman. And it seems. like they had a real um had their thumb. on the pulse. Thumb on the pulse. Sure, you can do that, right? Yeah, you could. use your thumb for that. Uh, they had. their thumb on the pulse of that Laurel. Canyon sort of um, country rock scene. because they ended up managing the likes. of Neil Young, America, Buffalo. Springfield, the Eagles, Joanie. Mitchell, Jackson Brown, Mamas and the.

Papas. Wow. Kind of that that whole. scene they were management for. That is. a mellow roster, man. It is. And. probably a lot of grass being smoked. Yes. And Phil smoked a bunch of it, too. He got brought on eventually. He went to. art school for a little while, tried to. go to the University of Hawaii, was. turned down, and I'm sure he wanted to. go to the the University of Hawaii to. surf. That's exactly what I thought. Yeah. So, his older brother was like, "Hey, man, you're not doing anything. You got some art school under your belt.

Why don't you come and work for me as a. roadie?" Because that's what people who. go to art school end up doing almost in. invariably. Yeah. Uh he hooked him up. with a little hippie rock band called. Rock and Fu. F O. Uh I don't Did you. listen to any Rock and Fu? I didn't. Um. I looked up the the band members though. One of them was uh on it was a child. actor prior to Rock and Fu. He was on F. Troop, Gunm Smoke, a bunch of other. stuff. And then another one was the. guitarist on a lot of the Monkeys hits.

Oh, that's cool. I listened to like. three Rock and Fu songs and I I liked. it. Oh, okay. I saw a photo of the band. and I was like, I'm not listening to. that. Well, it was it's probably not. your bag, baby. It It was that sort of. uh you know, kind of that again that. Laurel Canyon sort of country rock. thing. I dug it. I thought it was pretty. cool. Hey, I love America. Don't get me. wrong. I think they're great, but you're. no communist. Out of out of all of the. list of of bands that you rattled off, they're, you know, I I like that band.

the most. Yeah, it's just not your bag. I get it. I'm not I'm not uh bagging on. you. Okay. Thanks for not bagging on it. on me for it not being my bag. Yeah, I. mean you like craft work for god's sakes. and elevator music. I like I like most. stuff just going to listen to the bands. that you rattled off. Definitely no. No. Yeah, I'm violently opposed to listening. to Eagles. They they manage Sunny and. Share too. You probably like them the. most. They're fine. Okay. I don't. remember what I said on our Sunny and.

Sher episode, but I don't remember ever. being like super into their music. Yeah. Okay. I guess none of this really. matters because what we're really. talking about is Phil Hartman and him. being a roadie. Yeah. He kind of started. living the rock and roll lifestyle as a. roadie for some of these bands. And. because he had um some art school and he. was kind of a developing artist at the. time, his brother was like, "Hey, why. don't you do some of these album covers. for some of the bands?" And he did. And. and at least one of them was pretty. good. Yeah. He did um two for Rock and.

Fu. I think they only did two albums. So. he he he dominated their album cover. art. Nice. Uh he did some for Crosby. Sills and Nash or Sills and Nash. Yeah, I wrote that too. America. He did one for your favorite. band America. Yep. Uh did one for Poco. that's probably the most noteworthy uh. for their album Legend of this. It's a. very minimalist um artwork of a of a. horse. Mhm. Uh, and I wanted to mention. it is all over the internet that he did.

the cover for Steelely Dan's seminal. album, Asia, and he did not. Uh, but. it's everywhere on the internet as fact, and it's it's apparently not true. What. a weird rumor cuz that's just such an. arcane fact about him that he ever. designed any album covers, but then for. a rumor to be about him making one that. he didn't, that's really bizarre. But. that's the internet for you, right? Yeah. And I'm I'm pretty positive it. wasn't him because other people. sleuththed it out and dug up the actual. artist. And uh so if you're about to.

email and say, "Dude, he did Asia." I. think he did not. No, the one who the. guy who actually did it was Phil Hartman. with two N's, right? That's why people were confused, I. think. Yeah, good point. So, uh around. this time also, Phil, uh kicked off, and. by the way, we're on a firstname basis. with Phil Hartman, so we're just going. to keep calling him Phil. He kicked off. um what would become essentially his. trademark for his love life, which was. he would fall head over heels for a very.

very pretty um girl. And they would be. hot and heavy for a while and then he. would get married and then basically be. like, I this isn't working out after a. couple of years. And the first person he. did that with when he was, I think, 21, maybe 22, uh was a 19-year-old woman. from Malibu named Gretchen Lewis. and um she got pregnant pretty quickly. Well, they started dating, but they. didn't keep the kid, but they got. married after all. Yeah. Um they.

divorced in 1972. So, I guess either two. years or a little under two years. And. uh after that, he got his first. professional stage credit uh when he. played Harold uh Harold Hill and The. Music Man for the Santa Monica Theater. Company. Mhm. And uh Mike Thomas, the. guy who wrote the biography, had a quote. about uh from one of Phil's co-stars in. The Music Man that said, "Phil was a. true artist. He didn't really march to. the same drum as other people, although. it was a part of him that wanted to be. perceived as normal. He went through.

life trying to find a character that he. could present to the public that seemed. normal and wholesome." And that is also. sort of a repeated theme when you talk. to friends and colleagues and family. over the years was that no one knew the. real Phil. And I've known people like. that. It's an interesting thing to sort. of create personas rather than be. yourself. And that seemed to kind of be. the case with him. Yeah. He was heavy. into impression management basically at. everywhere in his entire life. Oh yeah. In all corners, right? Yeah. And also. just one thing about his first acting.

credit being playing Harold Hill because. he went on to play Lyall Lanley or. Lanley, I can't remember which one, who. is basically the the um Simpsons version. of Harold Hill from the Music Man in the. Montreal episode. Written by Conan. O'Brien, man. Yeah, he was one of the. better Simpson writers early on. He was. uh but on that thing about not seeing. the real Phil, there was one friend who. later said uh that there was a small. room inside Phil that no one will ever. get to. So just sort of kind of.

reinforcing that idea. Mhm. And the. friend said, "I hear it stinks of feet.". Should we take a break? I think it's. time. Yeah. All right. We're going to. take a break and come back and talk uh. about Phil's entry into the Groundlings. right after this. [Music].

So, Chuck, we've surely talked about the. Groundlings here or there. Um, there's. just no way we haven't, but just to. refresh, they are a sketch and improv. comedy troop founded in LA. uh who've. basically launched the careers of tons. and tons of comedians, including a lot. of people on Saturday Night Live. Apparently, Saturday Night Live drafts. heavily from the Groundlings, Second. City. Um and that's it. Uh but some of.

the some of the people from Saturday. Night Live who were Groundlings, including some who were groundlings with. Phil Hartman. Um John Loveitz was one. Yeah. Sherio Terry, Maya Rudolph, Kristen Wig, Will Frell. Um, and the. list just keeps going on. Forte. Got to. mention Forte. He wasn't on Saturday. Night Live, though. That's why I didn't. mention him. What was he? Will Forte was. Mcgruber, my my man. Oh, I didn't. realize that was a Saturday Night Live. character. Sorry, Will. Sorry. And the. Falconer. I didn't realize that he was.

on Saturday Night Live. I thought those. were like standalone things. No, he I. mean I I just mentioned that because. Forte is one of my all-time favorite. actors and SNL character uh members, cast members. Okay, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. to you both then. No, you didn't insult. me. I just I just love Forte. He did he. did the weirdest characters on that show. kind of consistently and I always just. respected him for that. Nice. Um well, that's great. Was he the last man on. Earth? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I like that.

too. Yeah, he's wonderful. I like him a. lot. I like him separately. I also um. like The Last Man on Earth. So, now that. the two are joined, I really like him. even more. Yeah. My only Will Forte. experience was uh I think I've mentioned. this before, but he was an attendee at a. good friend's wedding and my friend sat. me uh sat Emily and I at his table. because he knew I was such a fan. And I. partied all night with Will Forte and he. was the coolest, funnest dude. Oh, that's that's a great story. Yeah. Just. a real sweetheart. So, um Yeah. So, so.

we were talking about the groundlings, right? Yeah. And um this is I don't. know. This story doesn't seem to be. apocryphal. It seems to be actually. true. It's just exactly how it played. out is kind of under question, but there. was a a birthday party that a friend of. Phil Hartman had. I guess a group of. them went to a Groundling show and. before the show, Phil Hartman just. decided to get up on stage and start. doing some of his act. Could that be. true? I I supposedly I don't I mean.

somebody who's hungry for the stage I. guess. Yeah, I guess. Yeah, sure. Right. And so for two hours he had a hundred. strangers just totally enrapped. No, a. hot springs developed in the room. But no, apparently he he um he. definitely killed on stage and the the. the story is that the groundlings came. up to him after he got off stage and. were like, "You're in. You want to be. in?" That seems to not be true. It seems. to be that he went up to them afterwards.

like, "Hey, what do you think about me. getting a an audition now?" And they. said, "Sure." And he went and auditioned. and they said, "You're in." Yeah. See, that's the first part of the uh second. part was the part that I don't believe. Right. Cuz I don't see that how there's. any way at an improv theater, I know a. lot of people in those theaters over the. years, and for someone just to jump up. on stage and do a bit, I bet they would. not have been like, "You're wonderful. Can you join?" They would have been. like, "Dude, don't ever do that again.". Right. Exactly. Like if they went up to. him afterward, they probably would have.

said like, "Please leave." Yeah. Yeah. So, who knows? Uh, but it's a good. story. Um, I would love to eventually to. do episodes on the Groundlings Second. City in UCB is just like a little. trifecta suite. Okay, great. At any. rate, uh, no matter how it happened, Tracy Newman, who was the founding. member of the Groundlings, said that. Phil Hartman walked into the Groundlings. ready to go. Right. And that would also. there was a similar quote I think from. Lauren Michaels years later that said he. basically was ready the moment he walked.

into Saturday Night Live too. Yeah. He. was just a very dedicated actor. Um and. one of the people who really looked up. to him became one of his best friends of. fellow groundling John Lovevitz. And he. was saying that he would he called him. the king of the groundlings which is. pretty cool. Um, as he as his like. career went on, he became known as like. the most reliable actor in any group. Like he would stick to the to the the um. the sketch. Yeah. Even if it was going.

badly, he would hang in there. He. wouldn't bail on it. He would just keep. going until the end. And usually from. the impression I have is that if he was. in a sketch, if if it would have gone. badly otherwise if other people were in. it, if he was in it, it probably wasn't. going badly in the first place, which. makes it easier to stick to. Yeah, he he. just seemed kind of unflapable. Um we'll. we'll talk about some SNL stuff in a. bit, but um yeah, we I'll save it for. then, but one of his most popular. Groundlings characters was uh Chick. Hazard, who was the the hard-boiled.

detective like out of a film noir. And. that's a character that he would sort of. reprise in different ways over the. years. Mhm. Um he was a good he was just. good with his mouth and good with words. and could just rattle off really complex. long strings of uh comedic dialogue like. you know pitch perfect without missing a. beat and just just very very skilled. Like some people are funny and some. people are super skilled and he was one. that was both. Right. Yeah. Well put. Chuck. I think we can end the podcast.

there or we should talk about his second. marriage. Okay. Well, well, first. though, we should say he was with the. Groundlings for 11 years and that is. quite a while um for being a member of a. sketch comedy troop, including one that. doesn't ne has it doesn't have a TV show. or anything. It's like a live theater. group. It's a long time. Um but he I. think that's kind of like a an indicator. of the dedication that he brought to. acting, comedy. Yeah. Comedic acting. I'm not sure. Yeah. I mean, he didn't.

sort of make it uh in the public eye. until he was in his late 30s. And that's. just a long time to hang in there. Yes. Uh especially in comedy. It's not like. late 30s is old, but if you haven't made. it by that time as an actor or comedian. or something, you you're probably sort. of wondering like, well, should I take. up, you know, surfing again? Right? To. those stuff you should know listeners. out there in your late 30s trying to. break into acting still, do not be. discouraged by what Chuck just said, just keep going, guys. you. No, don't. start surfing. I mean, we I I didn't uh get into my.

career until my late 30s and didn't get. really success until my 40s. So, I'm I'm. living pretty I mean, you're younger. than me, so you were just a pup. No, that's not true. I was in my mid30s. when things started to pick up for sure. No, but I mean, it's funny that I said. that because we're good examples of. like, hey, you never know what's coming. around the corner. That Oh, that's. absolutely true. Boy, I could tell you. some stories of times when I thought. this life is not gonna work out for me. Oh boy. You and me both, man. So, um, we.

said that he got he split up with his. first wife, Gretchen, in 1972. He did the Bachelor thing for about. another decade and, uh, he ran into a. woman named Lisa Jarvis. I'm not sure. how they met or even necessarily when, but I know in 1982 they got married 10. years after his last divorce and it. basically followed the same pattern as. his first marriage. Um he just like it. just was like fireworks and then it.

cooled off and then he lost interest. Yeah. Their marriage only lasted a few. years. They divorced in 1985. Um the same year that he ended up having. some some of his first big successes. Uh, and that was because 5 years prior, uh, a guy walks into the Groundlings in. 1980 named Paul Rubin's with a character. named Peewee Herman under his, uh, arm. or under his belt. Yeah. Have you seen. the documentary yet? Uh, I still have.

not since you asked me yesterday. I. know. I thought maybe you would have. gone and watched it last night or. something, but Okay. So, no, it's it's. so close to being on my TV, you have no. idea. It's really good. Um, but he so. there's a lot about him developing the. Pee-Wee Herman character, Paul Rubin's. at the Groundlings with a lot of help. from other groundlings. Mhm. Apparently, and they show some of the early stuff um. on this documentary, he was much more. like um obnoxious. He threw Tootsie.

Rolls at the crowd. He would insult the. crowd. Wow. And then even after he kind. of started to get peee-ew like. developed, those early stage shows were. full of like sexual innuendo and stuff. that a little kid wouldn't pick up on, but adults would find funny. But there. weren't little kids at these shows. anyway, so it didn't matter. Right. Right. But one of the one of the people, my point was that really helped develop. it was Phil Hartman. And I think even up. to the first season of Peewee's. Playhouse, he played Captain Carl. His.

character was he played a character on. Pee-Wee's Playhouse for the first. season. Yeah. The the sirly boat. captain, Captain Carl. There were other. groundlings around as well. Uh either, you know, in the show with him or or. writing for him, and Phil was one of the. writers as well. Uh and they were. selling out every night. They ended up. at the Groundlings. They ended up moving. to the Roxy Theater, which was a little. bit bigger. Uh which we talked about in. our Sunset Boulevard episode. Yeah. And. or if it hasn't come out yet, we will.

talk about it on that episode. Yeah. And. then in 1980, there was a a producer. named Paula Kaufman who said she wanted. to create a kid show for adults, saw. Peewee at the Groundlings and was like, "This is it." Uh, this is the show. Yeah. Again, this documentary so like. this particular part when they're. developing the TV show is just it's just. not so amazing, right? I can't wait. So, Phil was there when um Paul Rubin's did. uh an HBO special. It was essentially.

one one I guess a HBO version of the. stage show that that it started out as. that caught the attention of other. people in Hollywood and they said, "Hey, how about a movie and they uh did. Peewee's Big Adventure together." Uh. Phil Hartman was a co-writer on that and. that was 1985. And so things are finally. starting to like pick up in ways that. that Phil Hartman had been hoping. Like. he had been writing scripts, he'd been. auditioning for TV shows. Now all of a. sudden he had a a hit movie writing.

credit under his belt. So he's thinking, "Okay, things are about to take off.". Which explains why in 1985 when Lauren. Michaels came to him and said, "Hey, do. you want to audition for Saturday. Saturday Night Live?" He said, "No, I'm. good. I'm going to pass on that." Yeah. This was uh Lauren Michaels return to. SNL. He very famously had an absence. from the show and the show kind of uh. did not farewell without Lauren Michaels. the creator. You weren't a fan of the. Tim Kazarinsky years. Uh I mean no some.

of that stuff is okay but just as a. general um success the show was kind of. going downhill. Yeah. But I did I I get. your joke first of all. Tim Kasarinsky. He was funny though. I like that. Oh no. He was he was like perfect for the. characters he played like on um Police. Academy. I can't remember his his. character's name. He was great on that. Same guy. I forgot about that. Yep. Uh. but Lauren came back to save the save. the show uh in 8586. Um he again like you said asked Phil to.

come aboard. He said no because he was. uh you know he thought he could make it. as an actor you know in just regular. comedies. And John Levitz joined. instead. And then John Levitz got him. another audition in 8 for the 8687. season. Mhm. He went in uh he had. already met Lauren a couple of times. Uh. one when he met Lauren Michaels I. believe at the uh I think when when. Reuben's hosted SNL for the first time.

Yes. Uh is when he first met Lauren but. then he was also had a small part in. Three Amigos which Lauren produced. And. then if you if you ever have a chance. just sit down on YouTube and watch the. Phil Hartman audition for SNL. Um he did. that Chick-hazard character first. He. did a one of the fake commercials and. that's where you can tell just how. skilled he is because it's one of those. fast talking commercials where he's. talking like this about a product but. it's not, you know, he's not reading. qards. It's just in his brain and. memorize and he just it's flawless. Uh.

and you hear something that you just. never hear in an SNL audition, which is. people laughing. They're very famous for. just sort of sitting there stonefaced. Yeah. Even if you're doing well and you. hear people laughing in the background, right? Yeah, that is very telling for. sure. Um, so there one there's one part. of his audition reel um where he does an. impression of a German comedian doing. impressions of famous people. It was so. good. He said the the most f the.

funniest man in Germany, Gur Johan, right? Yeah. And so Gutter does. impressions of like Jack Nicholson, John. Wayne, Jack Benny, but they're all. speaking German. And it's just like a. spot-on impression of of John Wayne. Yeah. speaking German and he's doing an. a a German an impression of a German. comedian doing these impressions. It's. just amazing. He goes right into it. Yeah. It just it really does show off. his talent. Plus, it's also hilarious, too. Yeah. You know, a lot of times when.

you talk about people being funny, it it. loses its funniness. Yeah. So, just go. watch it. Agreed. Totally agree. Uh he. was hired with pretty rockstar cast. Um, all new members, Jan Hooks, Dana Carvey, uh, Victoria Jackson, and Kevin Neland. Man, what a dream team. Yeah, pretty. good. Uh, and that really kind of helped. bring the show back. And how I mean, to. me, that's like the the golden age. I. think it destroys the 70s. The 70s was. cool and like amazing and and, you know,

really um, energetic, but the 80s were. just like pro, okay, to me. Okay. So, it. could be just that's one the one I grew. up with. Who? Who knows? But I mean. there there is that theory that whatever. age you were in high school, I think is. your favorite what you think is the best. SNL cast. Okay. Well, I I might. subscribe to that theory. No, I I love. that era. So, um. let's back up a second because you said. that he met Lauren Phil Hartman met. Lauren Michaels when Paul Rubin's Peewee.

hosted Saturday Night Live in 1985. Mhm. And the reason that he was there was. because um Paul Rubin brought Phil. Hartman along and another collaborator. from the Groundlings, John Paragon, as. his his writers to work with the the. Saturday Night Live writers to make good. sketches for Peewee Herman for that that. episode. Right. So Peewee or Paul. introduced Phil to Lauren. Lauren comes. to call in the next year and the year. after that and um eventually Phil says,

"Hey Paul, I've got to go. I'm I' I. finally got my break. I'm going on a. Saturday Night Live and um Paul was not. happy about that. If you've seen the. documentary, which I know you haven't, they covered this. I I watched it real. quick just now. Okay. So So you know. then they covered this in the. documentary. Apparently, it's not a very. well-known or it's kind of a forgotten. story, but they had a falling out and. they didn't really talk or ever. reconcile for the rest of Phil Hartman's. life because Paul was, and there's.

really no other way to put it, very very. jealous. He felt spurred. Um, jilted. Spurned jilted. Spurred to action. Um, and he he was also, yeah, very jealous. because he had tried out for Saturday. Night Live and did not get picked up. Oh, and I can't remember who got the the. spot instead of him. And then um yeah, and then Phil Hartman left PeeWee's. Playhouse to go to Saturday Night Live.

So Paul was kind of a not the most. forgiving person from what I can tell. from the documentary. So he just held. that grudge for the rest of Phil. Hartman's life. Oh man, that's sad. It. is sad for sure. I hate hearing that. I. might pause that part or skip over it. when uh I watch the documentary tonight. Okay, it's at 12336 is when it starts. Uh shall we take our final break? Uh. yeah. All right, let's take another. break and we'll talk about uh a meeting.

in 1985 that would change the course of. Phil Hartman's life right after this. [Music]. All right, as promised, uh, a meeting in. 1985 would change the course of Phil.

Hartman's life. And that is when Phil. met a woman named Brenndall. at a party. Uh she was a tall, beautiful. blonde um from Minnesota but moved to LA. to be a model or an actress or both. And. previous to meeting him in the late 70s. and early 80s, she had um an alcohol. problem. She had a cocaine problem, but. had gotten sober to her credit and was. looking for a good dude to um hook up. with. And when she met Phil, he was, this is sort of right before um Peewe's.

Big Adventure came out and he got the. offer to uh you know be on SNL. So he. was at a pretty low point auditioning. and his coming out of that second. marriage. And so he was like, "All. right, this beautiful woman loves me.". And then maybe validates me in a certain. way. And so they got together. They did. Um, and it was just like all the other. ones except this one was like when it. burned red hot that could also be really. bad too. Yeah. It wasn't just like two. people super into each other. It was.

also two people who like couldn't. couldn't like just just clashed a lot, right? So, they would get in really big. fights and then they would make up and. they would get in another fight and then. they would make up. And despite this. early on, they still ended up getting. married and went on to have two kids, uh, Shawn and Bergen. I think Sean was. the oldest uh and he was the boy and. Bergen was their little girl. And um. from all accounts like uh Brinn was a. really good mom and really loved Phil.

Hartman, but there was a huge issue in. that she was an aspiring actress and she. wanted to I think she wanted Phil to. help her career more than he was. comfortable helping it. Yeah. Uh and I. totally get this. He was not the kind to. like be like, "Hey, can you get my wife. on your show?" Or, "Yeah, you know, have. you seen my wife? She's great. Why don't. you give her a shot?" He just would not. do something like that, right? So, that. then and there caused um some pretty.

pretty serious static between the two. And then on top of that, after they got. together, his career actually started. taking off. So, in in addition to him. not helping her, he she was like living. in his shadow. So that was a big source. of conflict between the two. Yeah, for. sure. So he's got this marriage that. starts, you know, that's, you know, Rocky, like his other relationships had. been, but it has staying power more than. the others. Mhm. Uh he was 37 when SNL. started, right? Kind of when they got.

together. And his nickname on SNL was. the glue. Uh you kind of talked earlier. about how he was always sort of looked. at as a stabilizing force in the. Groundlings and SNL. and uh his nickname. was the glue because he was just perfect. basically whenever he performed. Um we. got to talk about some of his best. characters. Uh Phil Donahghue uh was one. of my favorites when he did Phil. Yeah. Um Ed McMahon of course uh the. aforementioned Ed McMahon was one of my. favorites. Uh, I really for some reason.

loved the Frankenstein tonto Tarzan bit. that he and Kevin Nean and John Levitz. did when they did Little Drummer Boy. It. was so silly, but I loved it. It was pretty good. He was Frankenstein, right? He Yeah, he was Frankenstein. I. think Love it was Tanto and Ne was. Tarzan. If you haven't seen it, look it. up. But basically the whole point is. none of them uh speak English and so. they would do like Christmas songs and. Frankenstein would just go.

and Love did Tanto and and uh you know. looking back it was a probably a fairly. racist depiction of a Native American. Yeah. And then you said Nean was Tarzan. and uh I don't even know what Tarzan. did. Probably just like jungle grunting. It was it's very good. I mean, like, basically, we could just sit here for. the rest of the episode and talk about. Phil Hartman sketches because each one. was better than the last. Like, um, unfrozen caveman lawyer. Yeah. First of. all, what a what a like just an.

exceptional idea to start with, but he's. he just pulls it off so perfectly. This. smarmy lawyer who's a an unfrozen. caveman who went to law school and. became a smarmy um uh I guess a personal. injury lawyer. Yeah, I think so. And. again, like we can talk it out and it. will kill any funniness to it. Just go. watch that one. Go look up Colon Blow, the Saturday Night Live commercial. Yeah. Classic. It is. Um and uh then. Ronald Reagan mastermind. Did you watch.

that one? Yeah, I Yeah, I remember. I. didn't rewatch it, but I remembered it. I rewatched it and I remembered it. It. came out around the time the Iran Contra. affair scandal broke. And at the time, Ronald Reagan was like, I I don't know. anything. like I didn't I didn't know. Who knows who knew? Like I didn't know. this was going on. So they make fun of. him. Um and his public persona just kind. of being this daughtering old man who. who does doesn't really have his finger. on the pulse of his own administration. to this when people aren't around and.

it's just him and his staff. Him just. like barking orders and being totally. super sharp and being the the mastermind. behind everything. It's and like the his. just turning public Reagan on and off. and then turning that private like. aggressive Reagan on and off. It's just. I mean like you really see like this guy. was amazing like like one of a kind. basically. I can't think of anybody who. could do the stuff that he did before. him or since. Yeah, for sure. Uh.

absolutely well said. Um he would go on. to do another president very famously in. '92 when Bill Clinton won the presidency. and he had a just a dead-on Clinton. impersonation just not only the voice. but just his sort of uh the smarmy kind. of Bill Clinton thing and the ego like. they they lampuned him very very well. very effectively. Yeah. He there's uh. one where he was jogging into a. McDonald's while he was running for. president doing like a campaign stop and. he's like, you know, about to kiss a. baby and he looks past the baby and and.

says to the mom like, "Hey, are you. going to eat the rest of those French. fries?" And it just goes from there. Oh. my god, it's perfect. So, um, one of the. things about Saturday Night Live that I. learned even as a young viewer, if. you're on beyond a certain number of. years, it's starts to have a certain. kind of look like it kind of shows the. world like you are perfect for Saturday. Night Live, but for some reason it's not. clicking outside of that. So, you just. hang in there as long as you can at. Saturday Night Live. And what's.

astounding and nuts is that that. happened to Phil Hartman. He was there. through a couple of cast changes, like. big time, huge cast changes where it. went from like Kevin Neland and Jan. Hooks to Chris Farley and David Spade. Um, and Chris Rock too at the same time. as well. I think Sarah Silverman came in. around that time too. So like he was in. for a huge transition. He straddled two. big transitions of Saturday Night Live. And that's a just like with the. Groundlings, this is a really long time. to be a member of Saturday Night Live.

And I think he felt um overlooked. because a lot of his colleagues were. starting to get their own movies and he. was not. Yeah. I mean he was on for. eight seasons. Uh over those eight. seasons he did he was in more sketches. than any other cast member. Uh when he. retired from SNL they gave him on the. show they gave him a a little statue of. an Elmer's glue like aix to a a trophy. kind of thing because of his nickname. the glue. But yeah, he he definitely was. getting side parts in these movies. Like. he was in So I Married an Ex-mer, he was.

in Coneheads, but he wasn't the star. And by the time he was uh Rock and. Sandler and those guys came along in. Farley, he was in his 40s and he was. kind of playing the straight man roles. like the old man of the family. Uh one, you know, sort of obvious example is the. uh Matt Foley um you know, the living in. a van down by the river, the. motivational speaker sketch. Phil. Hartman was the dad and you know no one. remembers that because everyone. remembers Chris Farley. Um quick aside. that sketch was created and written by.

Bob Odenkirk. Oh I I forgot he wrote for. Saturday Night Live too. Yeah. And the. reason I know that is because I watch. Kevin I follow Kevin Neon on Instagram. and he does this I don't know if he. releases them as a podcast. I'm going to. have to look. but he does these hikes. through um one of the you know canyons. there in LA in the Hollywood Hills and. he interviews people on these hikes and. he was interviewing Bob Odenkirk and. they were talking about that sketch. That's awesome. Yeah, it's cool. It is a. great sketch. But you can kind of see. how like Phil Hartman's super pro um.

really contained and perfect um delivery. and style. It it it doesn't jive well. unless he's just playing it straight to. somebody like Farley just going berserk, right? You know, totally. So, yeah, he. finally he left. He left on great terms. He just killed Saturday Night Live. He. became a legend on Saturday Night Live. Um and he went on to still have a pretty. great career. He went on to do four. seasons of News Radio, which is one of.

the great um underrated office comedies. along with um Working the Fred Savage. was in. Did you ever see that one? No. It was good. And Just Shoot Me is the. other underrated Office comedy of all. time, I think, from the '9s at least. But he was on four episodes of News. Radio. Had a great character. Four. seasons. Yeah. Four, what' I say? Episodes. Yeah. Seasons for sure. Um had. a great character, Bill McNeel, and um. he just basically picked up a second. part of his career. And then also.

simultaneously he was doing The. Simpsons, too, which is where a lot of. people fell in love with Phil Hartman. Yeah. just a little show called The. Simpsons. Uh he was asked in 1990 to do. some voiceover workh for that show and. he said, "Yeah, I'll do it but just one. time." Because he apparently had a. pretty bad experience doing voiceover. anim um for animation for the Dennis the. Menace animated show. I remember that. Uh but he said, "I'll do it just once.". But then of course that didn't last. because he was great on it. and he.

started working with the writers, started developing characters and for. eight seasons uh he voiced some of the. most iconic characters uh of course the. great Troy Mccclure and uh Lionel Hut's. attorney at law are the two sort of most. notable um because you know they would. come on as their little side bits here. and there but Troy Mccclure actually. ended up getting a pretty major. storyline when he hooked up with um. which one was it? I think Patty. I don't. remember. One of Margie's two sisters. I couldn't.

remember if it was Patty or uh Oh god, watches Selma. Yeah, that's right. But. it was one of them. Yeah, they fell in. love. And uh that's from one of my. favorite lines from Troy Mccclure was. after they went out on a date, he sees. her the next day and his famous line. was, "You may remember me from whatever. uh like acting role that he was in." And. in this case, he said, "Uh, I'm Troy. Mccclure. You may remember me from. certain dates like last night. Yeah, he was well known for that. You.

may remember me from such educational. films as The Decapitation of Larry. Leadfoot. Oh man. Or Here Comes the. Metric system. Yeah. He was great. Yeah. And like he had one episode where he was. big, but the rest of the time it was. just like you said, a little side thing. And he still created a legendary. character times two. And as a matter of. fact, when he died, the Simpsons are. like, Lionel Huts and um Troy Mccclure. will never appear on the Simpsons again. They just couldn't no one else could do. it. Yeah. So, speaking of him dying,

this is going to go long because this is. kind of an involved story, but um he uh. like I said, he and Brinn had a lot of. tension. Apparently, Phil Hartman had a. anxious avoidant attachment um style. Mhm. Uh when she wanted to talk, when. she was confrontational, he would get. basically get in a sailboat and sail off. to Catalina Island. Um alone, I I take. it, but he was just he would withdraw. You couldn't get to him. Uh that was the. way that he dealt with it. And she did. not like that. I think it made her feel.

very lonely. And then again, she was. living in a shadow. He wasn't helping. her career. They had two kids. And. again, she was a really, really good mom. by all accounts. She also had um some. former demons that she had conquered, including um an alcohol addiction and an. addiction to cocaine. Uh and she was. clean when she and Phil met. And she. stayed clean for a while. Uh but she got. back on the cocaine train um after she. did coke with Andy Dick at a news radio. party, Christmas party in 1997.

Yeah. I mean, we don't know if that's. the first time she started back again, but as the story goes, uh, he offered. her cocaine. Um, he said that he didn't. know that she had had a drug problem. before. Uh, did not know that, um, apparently she had been clean. And John. Loveitz for many, many years was very, um, public about blaming Andy Dick, um, for, you know, for her falling off the. wagon. And it led to a a crazy story. where in 2007 John Loveitz assaulted.

Andy Dick at the Laugh Factory and like. got into a uh I mean I was going to say. a fist fight, but it doesn't sound like. it was punchy, but more John Loveitz, at. least as the way he tells it, um ramming. Andy Dick's head back into the bar like. repeatedly and said, "I would have kept. doing it too, but the bartender stepped. in. I'm Frenchie." Yeah, he uh. apparently he he took over for Phil. Hartman um after Phil Hartman died on. news radio and like one of the first.

days he said to Andy Dick, "I wouldn't. be here if you hadn't given cocaine to. Brin." So he blamed um Andy Dick for the. death of Brinn and Phil. Uh so Andy Dick. didn't like that. Later on he said he. saw they they saw each other at a. restaurant. He said, "I put the Phil. Hartman hex on you. You're the next to. die." And then the next time they saw. each other is when John Loveitz beat up. Andy Dick, which I mean had no idea. about that. Did you? No, I I didn't know. that story until uh today or yesterday.

or whenever you sent it over, which is. just one of those crazy stories. Um but. very sadly uh it was May 27th and you. know we should say Bren at this point um. she was upset about Phil's uh. you know smoking too much weed. Mhm. Um. she was had an anxiety problem. She was. suffering through some depression. Um. she got on anti-depressants. Uh started. drinking again. Not sure who started the. cocaine thing. Maybe Andy Dick, but she.

got back into cocaine and was in a. pretty bad state of mind. And on May. 27th, 1998, she had gone out for drinks. at uh an Italian restaurant and wanted. to go to another bar, but her friend. didn't want to. So, she called up her. old uh drug and buddy from the 70s and. early 80s, guy named Doug. And Doug was. clean now, but said, "Why don't you come. over to my house?" She had some more. drinks over there and was basically. complaining about her marriage, about. Phil smoking too much pot and them not. getting along and, you know, being just. at at loose ends. And at 1 in the.

morning, he's like, "You know, you need. to go home. You need to go home to your. husband." So, she she did. I don't think. she had much of a choice. Doug was like, "You you got to leave." Um, and I guess. when she got home shortly after that, she and Phil got into an argument. Phil. went off to bed, managed to fall asleep. And remember, Brenn is on Zoloft has. been drinking for hours now and is on. cocaine. And she went and um got one of. their guns, a 38 special, and walked up. to Phil while he was sleeping and shot.

him three times, once in the head. And I. I never saw if he woke up or if he even. knew it happened. Hopefully not and he. just died while he was asleep. That. would be what I would hope, but he died. instantly. Um because he was shot three. times at close range. Yeah. So, uh about. an hour after that, she called up her. friend Doug, who she was just with. She. was super super drunk at this point. Uh. Doug said, "You need to just sleep this. off." She didn't tell him at that point.

when it happened. Mh. And about 20. minutes later, she shows up back at. Doug's house saying that she killed Phil. and he doesn't believe her. And then. apparently, as the story goes, while she. was there, the gun fell out of her. purse. And he was like, "What is going. on?" He helps her sober up over the. course of a couple of hours. um drives. her back over at about 6:00 in the. morning to their house and he sees Phil. dead and uh he calls the cops and at. that point Brenn locks herself in the. bedroom with Phil's body and that's.

where she was when the cops arrived. Yeah. Um I both of their kids were in. the house at the time. I think uh Shawn, the oldest, woke up and Doug was like, "Let's get you out of here." And took uh. Doug took Shawn outside to the police. But the whole time Bergen's sleeping. through like her mom just murdered her. dad and then it just gets worse. actually. Yeah. So she is barricaded in. the room with Phil. Uh the cops are. there. She's making phone calls to. friends and family saying, you know,

confessing basically to what she had. done. And finally her last call was to. her sister Kathy. Uh she said, "Take. care of my children. Just let them know. how much I love them." She got a second. gun and laid down on the bed next to. Phil and shot herself and killed. herself. Yeah. and became one of the. most hated people in America, if not the. world, almost overnight. I remember. hating her guts when I heard about this. Me, too. Um, as an older person, I I. have a little more empathy for her. Um, just the amount of loneliness, and then. also being on anti-depressants, cocaine,

and alcohol definitely is not a good. combination, especially when you have. guns in the house. But, um, yeah, I've. changed my approach to her a little bit. And I was kind of um happy to read that. at the at the funeral um Phil's brother. John was asking the people in attendance. like please try to find it in your heart. to forgive her for this. Like this. wasn't this is this was a horrible thing. but it's not like she was evil. She was. a a loving mo a loving wife and a loving. mother and like let's try to remember.

her for that. Yeah, for sure. and. especially at the funeral to to have the. guts to say something like that was. pretty pretty standup thing to do I. think. Um yeah, a good a good like life. lesson there. U Phil was he was going to. come back to news radio. It's not like. he was done with the show. He was going. to come back for season 5 but like you. mentioned John Loveitz took over. Uh the. first episode of season 5 dealt with the. death of the character. It was called. Bill Moves on. Yeah. Very emotional. episode. Uh, and I think you already.

mentioned that they, you know, The. Simpsons was like, "We're never ever. going to get someone to do Troy Mccclure. or Lionel Huts again." Yeah, it's true. And then he finally got his, um, star on. the Walk of Fame in 2014. Yeah. And we. should mention, uh, Bin's sister Kathy. respected her wishes and she's who. raised the kids. Yeah. Along with her. husband. Yep. So, good for her. Yeah. Good for them. Uh, that's Phil Hartman. Um, one of the sad outcomes of all this, Chuck, I think, is when you search Phil. Hartman, just Phil Hartman, most of what.

comes up on the first couple pages of. search engines is about the murder. Yeah. Yeah. Not like look at all the. hilarious stuff he did. So maybe look up. Phil Hartman SNL videos and just go from. there. Totally. That's all we have to. say about Phil Hartman for now. So I. guess Chuck, it's time for listener. mail. Uh, this is from Katie Josiah, a. six-month old baby. Oh, wow. And Chris, this is amazing. Hey guys, my wife and I.

were just uh listening to the William A. Mitchell story from a few weeks ago. We. heard that Bill was the inventor of. Tang. My wife is from Georgia, but I'm. from the Midwest, so we always like to. talk about things we grew up with, different foods and traditions, restaurants, etc., and how they were. similar or sometimes very different. Well, I found out that I consumed Tang. in a very unique way, apparently. Hot. No, I thought he was gonna say right up. the nose. When I was young in the winter. months in Ohio, my dad would warm up the. kettle and mix Tang in boiling water. It. was a warm drink that we could have.

whenever we played out in the snow, and. my sister and I loved it, and he called. it hot Tang. Okay. And I just thought uh. all Tang was consumed hot, which is. pretty funny. Um I've actually never. drank cold or even room temperature. Tang. Uh hope all is well with you and. yours. with love from North Georgia, Katie, Josiah, 6 months old, and Chris. I would try that especially with like a. cinnamon stick. Yeah, it sounds like a. You ever have like Theaflu or something. when you're sick? Man, or hot or hot. totty. I love the taste of the flu so. much. I would drink it once in a while.

when I'm not sick. It really puts you to. sleep, man. It really does. If you get. the good stuff, I I too love the flu. The warning on the box about your liver. is like it scares me. So, I only do it. once in a while. Yeah. I mean, we we. should get them on as a sponsor, man. We. should we should drink it on on the. podcast once in a while. Yeah, but I bet. Tang Hot Tang is pretty similar. And I. bet a little whiskey in there would be. pretty good. Yeah. Well, don't get Katie. started this early. She's only 6 months. old. No, the Katie is the wife. Oh, okay. Well, who is 6 months old? That.

What was it? Josiah. Oh, okay. I thought. Katie's last name was Josiah. I see. There was a comma in there that I wasn't. aware of. Yeah, Chris wrote the letter, right? He married Katie. Okay. And they. had Josiah 6 months ago. Okay. Gotcha. Well, I I guess I should just say. congratulations to Katie and John. Yeah. Yeah. For Josiah and everything else. There you go. Uh yeah, and thank you. also for uh sending the email. That was. a great one. Hot Tang sounds wonderful.

We'll go try it. And if you want to be. like Katie, Josiah, and Chris, who I may. have just called John, I'm not sure. Uh, you can send us an email too at. stuffodcast@iheartradio.com. [Music]. Stuff you should know is a production of. iHeart Radio. For more podcasts, iHeart. Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple. Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your. favorite shows. [Music].