The Odyssey Episode | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW

Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a. production of iHeart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the Epic Cast. This. is Josh. There's Chuck. Jerry's here, too. We're all wearing breast plates, and that means this is stuff you should. know. >> To protect our chest. >> Yes. I'm also wearing a cod piece, but. that's not unusual for me. >> To protect your cod. I know. Why is it.

called that? >> The fish of the day. >> What if you dated somebody who referred. to that as as your cod? Wouldn't you be like, "Please stop. calling it that.". >> Yeah. It's like, "Do you mind giving me. some privacy? I'm in here washing my. cod.". >> Right. They would say, "I'm sorry. I. majored in the Canterbury Tales.". >> What a weird way to start the Odyssey. >> I know. I know. And you're the one who. wrote those lines. So, >> I know that's true. Uh yeah, we're. talking about the Odyssey. You saw the.

Odyssey and you were like, "How's the. Odyssey work?" And here we are, right? >> Yeah. You know, I saw the movie. Uh I. thought it was really good. I am no. Christopher Nolan fanboy. I'm about. 50/50 with him. Maybe maybe 6040 with. ones I like. >> Which ones do you like aside from. Momento obviously? >> Well, I liked Momento. I liked the. Prestige. I liked the Batman movies. >> Yeah. um didn't love I mean Oppenheimer. was quote unquote good I guess but it. was a bit of a slog for me and like I.

never wanted to see it again. >> I could see that. >> I think you and I had the same problems. with Interstellar. >> Yeah. >> Uh I did not see Tenant because I heard. it was so bad. So yeah, he's sort of hit. or miss for me. But I really thought the. Odyssey was great. And it kind of hit me. after I saw it. I was like, it's kind of. just crazy this idea that this story. that's this old, like one of the oldest. stories like can still resonate with an. audience in 2026 and like what is it. about that story itself? And I knew.

nothing about just the the Odyssey as a. literary piece and uh I didn't know much. about Homer. Like I was an English. major, but we didn't I guess I didn't do. the classes where we studied this stuff. Well, it in your defense, it was written. in Ionic, not English. So, >> yeah, good point. >> Um, so yeah, I I can totally see where. you're coming from that this story has. legs, I guess, is how you'd put it. >> Yeah, it's just kind of fascinating to. me as a as a piece of work.

>> For sure. And let's talk about this. piece of work because there's a lot to. talk about, not just uh recounting the. highlights of the story and spoiling the. movie, I guess, for anybody who uh. hasn't paid attention over the last like. 2000 something years. >> Yeah. If you can't if you can't uh spoil. something written in the 8th century, then uh I'm just sorry. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, about almost 3,000 years. ago, the 700s BCE, right? That's where.

they think Homer first put this to. paper. Uh but the whole thing and it's. attributed to the Greek poet Homer. Uh. who I guess this would have been post. bronze age. Um like after the Bronze Age. collapse I think is is when Homer was. walking around. If Homer was even. walking around we'll talk about in a. second. Yeah. But they attribute both. the Odyssey and the Iliad, which is kind. of the prequel to the Odyssey,

uh, to Homer. And they think that it was. first written down, like I said, in the. 700s, the 8th century B.C.E., but that. it was probably around way longer than. that because the whole thing is set up. as a a form of oral storytelling. >> Yeah. I mean, you know, just you. mentioned quickly that that was sort of. a uh sequel or the Iliad was a Did you. say prequel? >> You bet I did. >> Well, the Odyssey is 24 books, one book.

for each letter of the Greek alphabet, but the Iliad that you were talking. about um talks about Agamemnon's return. from the Trojan War. And then the. Odyssey basically covers Odysius. >> Mhm. uh his return from the very long. delayed return from the Trojan War. And. what was your question that you asked. before I sidetracked us? >> Do you remember? >> I I asked you uh what um Christopher. Nolan movies you like. >> You asked me something right before. this.

>> That's the last question I remember. asking you. >> Oh, that's okay. Um but Oh, I think I. know what you said. Something about it. being uh an oral tradition that was much. older, right? >> Yeah. Yeah. I must have said right. >> That's right. >> That was my question. Am I right? >> I can't believe how good we are at this. 18 years in. >> 18 years in. >> It astounds me sometimes. Masters. >> I know. It's almost like we're both. sleepwalking right now. >> No, no, no. Not sleepwalking. >> on the phone. >> Um, so we don't know how closely the.

Odyssey, you know, resembles the story. that Homer told in 700s because you were. right. It was an oral um story. It was. an oral tradition and it was supposed to. be told. >> um by memorizing it and retelling it by, you know, from bards, telling the story. to people in a crowd, maybe changing a. thing or two. Um, you know, the idea is. that we it it's pretty likely that this. thing was a little bit like a game of. telephone, right? >> Yeah. You know, like as you learned it.

and you passed it on, you could kind of. embellish it in this way. you're like, I. don't really care that much about the. siren, so I'm not going to give them as. much play as maybe the guy who taught. you how to say this. >> did. >> And then it it it really started to take. its final shape again when it was. finally put to papyrus. I want to say. pen to paper, but probably quill to. papyrus is how it was first done, right? >> I love that. >> That's when it really kind of started to. take a solid form because now it was.

like now you just basically copied it, right? you didn't have to memorize it or. anything like that, but the it was far. from the only like um legend or tale of. like Greek culture and Greek heroics and. like Greek moral lessons and all that, right? But it was just for some reason. that I don't think anyone's really put. their finger on. It just has resonated. throughout the years. So, it's the one. that we tend to think of when we think. of this whole stuff, but it was a a.

cornerstone of Greek culture. like this. is just part of your indoctrination into. growing up in ancient Greek culture. You. knew the Iliad among other things or the. the Odyssey, probably the Iliad, too, among other things. You'd at least heard. it probably more than once. And then. finally Plato comes along and he's like, "This is all rubbish. We need to start. using our noodles." So, he tried to. actually ban the Odyssey and it didn't. take because people love it that much. >> That's right. It lived on. uh you. mentioned it was uh an ionic Greek which.

is an Asiatic dialect and it's been gone. for more than 2,000 years. So if you're. wondering how we got to the point where. Christopher Nolan is working on a. screenplay adapted from a 21st century. um novelized version I guess. >> Mhm. >> Uh it's sort of a winding road. Uh the. first print copy came around in 1488 and. it was produced in Italy in that ionic. Greek and then uh the I guess about a.

100 years later or so or at least in the. next century it was finally translated. to um some European languages, some. actual living languages. And then in. 1616 uh we got our first English uh. translation of this epic poem from a. British poet uh named George Chapman. That's a pretty British name if I've. ever heard one. >> Yeah, for sure. >> So, yeah. So, then now it starts to come. into our uh our awareness, our. understanding. >> and you know him translating it and then. other people translating it from the.

original uh you know, we talked a little. bit about just the original oral. translations, but when you finally get. to like written translations, it also. took a bit of a winding road obviously. >> Yeah. because the thing was written. originally or created originally to be. spoken and it actually follows a. specific meter like the rhythm that. you're supposed to say it in. It's. called homeriic hexameter. or dctactilic hexameter I've also seen. and it's where you it there six in each.

line there's six three syllable units. and in the three in these three syllable. units these dactyls the first syllable. is stressed and then the next two are. not stressed so it's like hi how are you. doing today. guy right do you have to sing I actually. I saw somebody a video of somebody not. only reading it in English but reading. it in Ionic. >> Oh wow. >> Yeah. And I couldn't tell any difference.

from somebody just reading it normally. But that's not something that literally. translates very well into other. languages including English. So these um. the the translators basically had to. make some some big decisions. essentially. >> Yeah. I mean it it's almost like. translating the Bible, you know, through. the various translations of the Bible. over the years that there was, you know, each time someone's doing that, they're. they're writers that are doing that. So. each version is going to be a little bit. different, >> right? >> Um, you know, a language, especially,

you know, in the case of a poem, it's. going to have a unique rhythm, but. people's native tongue have unique. rhythms as well and just where they're. from. There are unique cultural. experiences that happen. Um, some of. these translate better than others, I. guess. >> Yeah. And so, you know, you're really. uh, you know, you're not rewriting and. like I don't think people made up like a. ton of stuff out of whole cloth, but. making it relevant for the audience that. they're writing it for, which would. would have been in their language for.

the people in their country because they. wanted them to get something out of it. >> Yes. Yeah. Most translators have ignored. the um there's a joke in one of the. books about laying with a goat and it. just does not translate well into modern. times. That's right. Got to leave that. one behind. And the other thing is, you. know, there's a few things here. You're. translating from a dead language, which. is a big deal. Uh we already mentioned. that there were things meant to be. spoken aloud to something read, which is. going to change it. >> And then it's just something that's just.

thousands of years old that you have to. make sense. So, it's a it's a hard job, >> right? It's a hard knock life for. translators of the Odyssey. >> That's That's right. That's what Annie. said. Uh, so there there were some. there's some like standout um. translations over the years, but the one. that everyone's talking about right now. is um from Emily Wilson. Uh, and she I. think did hers in 2017. Okay. >> 2017 is how most people say that,

>> right? And um she basically uh. she turned it into English heroic. couplets which is basically a a a. tearinking way of saying like exactly. the the kind of rhyming pairs that you. hear in any modern song. >> Yeah. And this is the one that. Christopher Nolan used specifically to. adapt his version of the story on. screen. Mhm. >> Um, I think we should probably talk a. little bit about the home question. because you you teased earlier the uh if.

Homer was really a person and that it's. sort of one of these things where you. know we don't have any hard facts when. it comes to Homer like everything that. we know um historians literary. historians have surmised from reading. the text like well is it's written in. this language so he's probably from this. place that spoke that language like. stuff that makes sense though. >> Yeah. No, there's plenty of stuff that. that makes sense. It's more just like a. question of like um did he actually.

exist? If he was a bard, if he was a. group of people, it's very similar to. the um Shakespeare question too. did an. episode on. >> But there I mean just even though. everything is a guess that we've kind of. compiled from Homer strictly from I. guess his own writing, I don't think. he's referenced in any other like. historical text or anything like that. It's just the stuff he's writing about. just kind of lines up. And they think. that he was probably from Ionia, which.

is along the west coast of Turkey today. because the whole thing was written in. Ionic. And um he almost certainly lived. during this age that they attribute it. to. And they also are like it's possible. that he might be a known historic blind. bard named Democ Democus. Demodicus. >> Yeah. That's the hardest one, I think, out of. this whole whole article.

>> Yeah. I mean, that's a uh that's a. character in the Odyssey that like a lot. of space is devoted to. >> So, I think there are people who are. like, I wonder if this is just a standin. for him because boy, there's a lot of. stuff in there about this, you know, minor character, >> right? He's like, and let me sing the. praises about Demoticus's COD. >> Yeah. >> There's just verse after verse about. that. >> A lot of stuff. Uh, so I also think we. should talk before we break about um. sort of a central concept because in act. two everybody we're going to give you.

the cliff's notes version of the. Odyssey. >> Yeah, >> it's very exciting. >> I'm very excited. But we should uh a. little bit more before we get into that. is sort of conceptually what the Odyssey. was about in a lot of ways was uh. homecoming and hospitality uh which are. notos and Zenia in ancient Greece. And. these two things were like really big. deals in ancient Greece that figured. heavily in like their life and culture.

>> Yeah. They're not only um like things. that you should do to be like a good. host. there are actual like rules that. you have to follow and if you don't. you're actually upsetting Zeus because. this is Zeus the king of the gods the a. real god's god if you ask other gods um. this is his divine law that he's passed. down that's how important these these. rules for treating guests are. >> so yeah that Zenia is uh is a big deal. and the rules specifically are if you um.

happen to you know to hop through town. and you knock on a stranger's door, >> they're supposed to say, "Come on in. I. don't need to know anything. Here's some. food. Here's some wine. Why don't you. go? I'll draw you a hot bath.". >> Sure. >> And then we'll get to why you're here. Uh and also while you're doing this. stuff, like maybe while you're in the. bathtub, I'm going to stand sentry out. front with my sword to make sure you. stay nice and safe. >> Yeah. You have to guarantee their. protection while they're staying at your. home. Yeah. Like a a heap and helping of.

hospitality is what you're supposed to. offer. for a stranger according to. Zenia. Right. >> For sure. >> That figures in so much to the story. that essentially entire groups and. individuals are characterized by how. they treat strangers, how they act as. guests, um how they act as hosts. Like. this is a really important thread that. goes through all of the Odyssey. That's. Zenia. >> Then there's also notos, right? >> Yeah. Homecoming. I mean, that's.

basically what the Odyssey is. It's. about somebody coming home. Uh, and this. was a very big deal in Greek society. because they were seafarers. They were. um adventurers and wanderers by sea. And. so they would go out a lot and coming. home was a big deal. They would be. separated from their family. They would. have these brutal um, you know, sea. journeys. And so coming home was a very. big deal. And so it's no surprise that. these two sort of prominent things that. figure in Greek culture and society at. the time were the sort of the two big.

themes of the Odyssey. >> Right? If you're in high school and you. have a crush on somebody who likes to. read the classics. >> just go up to him and say, "Would you. like to go to Nostto with me?" And they. will there'll be putty in your hand. after that. >> That's great. I started Moby Dick by the. way just so everyone knows it's. officially happening. >> Awesome. How how's it going so far? >> Well, I read I read chapter one and then. I watched that, you know, I I mentioned. the Rob uh Delaney podcast that he's.

doing with uh the professor and so I'm. going to do that like in lockep. So, I I. did that and then I watched their. chapter one recap and it's helping a. lot. I like it so far. >> That's awesome. Uh keep us keep us. posted, will you? >> I will. So far so good. >> Okay. Uh, so that was uh I think we. covered Zenia and Nostro pretty well and. that's probably a pretty good place to. break, right? >> Yeah. And uh everyone hold on your hats. cuz act two we're going to go over these.

uh books of the Odyssey. Learning stuff with Joshua. stuff you should know.

>> All right, I'm back uh with Josh. He's. screwed his head back onto his body. cartoon style. >> And if you don't know what Chuck's. referring to, that means we edited that. thing out. >> Oh, perhaps. You never know. Uh, but. we're going to kind of do, like I said, the cliff's notes version of the. Odyssey. Um, spoilers will abound. If. you haven't seen the film and you really. don't want to know anything about it, then don't listen to this chapter. But. I, you know, I think it might help going. in to know a little bit about the story.

if you really don't know anything. Uh, and I'll also point out the actors who. feature um and and who they play. How's. that? >> I think that's great. Can you also do. their voices, maybe? No, I can't do any. of those voices. >> You can do a great Matt Damon. >> How about them apples? >> There you go. Exactly. That actually. sounded like Matthew McConna trying to. do a Matt Damon. >> It sort of did. >> All right, so let's get started. Chuck, we start with book one. And actually,

this kind of covers books one through. four. >> Yeah. And we find um we start the Trojan. War has ended 10 years before and the. Trojan War itself has taken 10 years. So. it's been 20 years since our hero. literally the hero of the story Odysius. >> Matt Damon. >> Yes. Which I'm not I'm not crazy about. that casting. I'm sorry. >> There's a lot of people upset about this. casting. >> Yes. >> Not not him like all kinds of the. casting. >> I know. Everybody's like Matt Damon's.

fine. Um, so he's been gone for 20 years. and from what I understand, like this. was initially considered a fairly quick. errand. The Trojan War started because. Paris stole Helen of Troy and now the. the I think everybody kind of set out to. to get her back and it turned into this. 10-year Trojan War. >> That's right. Uh Helen of Troy is played. by Lupita Nyongo in this film. >> and uh Elon Musk is so mad about that.

Uh he's going to make his own AI version. uh that he thinks is uh more. historically accurate. That's what he's. >> I heard about that. I'm waiting for its. IPO. >> I'm sure it's going to be great. Uh so. Matt Damon is Odysius. He's been gone. for those 20 years like you said. He has. a wife named Penelopey played by Anne. Hathaway in this film. >> And he has a son uh called Tymicus uh. who's played by Tom Holland who you. might know more as Spider-Man. >> Yeah. All right. So, where we pick up. with them, they are living in their.

their big, you know, house, their their. mini mansion, and there are a hundred. suitors vying for Odysius's throne and. the hand of Penelope to marry. >> Yeah. >> Um the the most villainous in the film. at least is uh Antinis, played by Robert. Patson. >> I'll bet he's he's does a great job. >> He's great. The acting is really really. good in this entire film. But, uh, these. guys are all living there kind of, uh, really have made themselves at home, let's just say, >> and not keeping up their end of the.

Zenia bargain, which is I don't I don't. even know if we mentioned as a guest, you're also supposed to be awesome in. return, and these guys are not. >> We left that out. It was It's not just. incumbent on the host. >> That's right. >> So, yeah, they're being pretty terrible. And one of the main things they're doing. as suitors, this whole hundred of them. who've taken over um Odysius's home, they're like really pressing Penelope to. be like, "Your husband's dead. It's been. 20 years. You need to choose a husband. to sit on the throne next to you and. become king of Ithaca. Who are you going.

to choose?" And she keeps hemming and. hawing. hemming literally because she um. she says that when she finishes the. funeral shroud that she's weaving for. Odicius's elderly father Gary, she um. she will make this this decision, right? And then every night after she uh has. woven all day, she goes and undoes the. weaving that she did that day so that. she will never finish. And this I guess. the suitors are all idiots and it's.

working quite well because they still. haven't caught on. I guess. >> you know sometimes when we get emails. that are like I can't believe Josh said. that Odysius's father's name was Gary. Didn't he read it or do his research? I. wonder if people even know you. >> I do too. after 18 years. You know, >> so barren desert dry. Like, get with it, people. He knows it's. not Gary.

>> Chuck, I love how well you know me. Thanks, man. >> I mean, you still fool me, so I guess I. shouldn't throw stones. >> I want to take issue with that. You're. You're There's probably. 98% of the time you're just like moving. on. Not that you don't think it's funny, not that you don't get it. You're just. like, we're we're burning up time here. That's enough of your shenanigans. I'm. just going to let that sit. >> All right. Thanks, Gary. So, Penelopey. and uh Tmicus are, you know, it's been.

20 years. So, they're are also they're. also losing hope that dad is and husband. are gone. Sure. >> Like for good. >> So, Athena, played by Zenaia in the. film, uh the goddess of wisdom and. warfare, >> um she's on Odysius's side this whole. time. She's like, "Hey, uh, kid, why. don't you go out and like actually do. something and see if you can find out if. your dad's alive? That'd be a good. start.". >> Is uh I'm guessing uh Zenaia does a. great job. Or Zenaia.

>> Is it Zenaia? Yeah, she's she's awesome. She's a really good actor, I think, in. everything. >> I heard recently that people thought of. her as like a Nepo baby or something. like that. I don't know where that's. coming from, and I think she's really. good at everything I've ever seen her. in. >> Who are her parents? Are they famous? >> I don't know. I don't know. I'll have to. go back and double check that, but I saw. somebody reference it and I'm like, I. don't know what you're talking about. She's great. >> Yeah, she's great. And she was also in. Spider-Man the Movies. So, it's a. reunion of sorts. >> Yes. And uh Benny, I can't remember.

He's one of the creators of Uncut Gyms. And. >> Benny Safy. >> Yes. He's in this movie and he directed. Robert Patson in Good Times. >> That's right. He plays Benny Safy plays. Agaminmon. >> Yeah, >> man. Look at all this. >> Yeah. Go ahead. though. I'm sorry for. sidetracking us so badly. >> Oh, that's okay. So, um she says, "Why. don't you go out and see if your dad's. still alive? Uh he goes and meets with. uh John Bernthal from The Walking Dead, who plays uh King Menaus in Sparta, >> and from him learns, hey, your dad's.

alive. He's sort of being held captive, but in the best way he can be held. captive on Calypso's island." And that's. where book five picks up, >> right? Calypso is a nymph, a goddess. nymph who has basically turned Adysius. into a sex toy after he washed up on her. island after a shipwreck, which we'll. come to later. That's another cool thing. about the the Odyssey. It's not. completely linear. It actually spins.

around. There's different like this. entire part we're talking about is a. flashback as we'll see. >> Yeah, this this starting with book five. Yeah. >> Yes. Um thank you. Uh, and so Calypso. falls in love with Adysius and uh, she's. like, "Don't forget I'm a goddess nymph, not just a nymph, so I can make you stay. here." And she does. She holds him. captive there for I think something like. seven years. And then finally, Athena, who has really chosen Adysius as like. one of her favorite humans and really.

intervenes on his behalf throughout this. whole um, I guess odyssey. Uh, she goes. to Zeus and is like, "You got to get. this guy out of Calypso's clutches." And. Zeus is like, "Sure, I'll I'll see what. I can do.". >> That's right. Um, Calypso, by the way, is played by Chariss Therone. So, uh, again, he was being held captive as a. sex slave for seven years to Charize. Throne. >> Mhm. >> And still wants to leave. >> Right. He's like, "My god, it's.

exhausted.". Uh, so he has resumed his journey home. to Ithaca. He leaves on a raft. Um, Poseidon, Poseidon is a real jerk. throughout this whole story. Really. doesn't like Odysius, so he destroys. >> Who plays Poseidon? Sorry. >> No one plays Zeus or Poseidon in this. >> Oh, are they CGI? >> No, no, no. They he bite your tongue. He. uses very little CGI. >> Yeah, I heard it's all practical. effects, but I don't understand what you. mean. They're just offscreen. >> They're not in the movie like uh at all.

Okay. They're just referenced. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> Like Poseidon really did me dirty. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> So, he Poseidon wrecks the raft uh as. punishment because he blinded his son, which was a Cyclops. And we'll we'll get. to that in a minute because that's. coming uh by way of flashback. >> uh a little bit later. And Odysius is. shipwrecked once again and taken in by. the I guess the Fian. >> and they are showing some serious Zenia.

They are like great hosts to him. Uh say. come on into the royal court. Here's. everything you need in the way of food. and wine and protection. >> Right. And the reason we said that book. five starts as a flashback because. Odysius is being really well taken care. of by the Facians and the Facian king I. guess one night while they're feasting. says hey man tell us your story. What's. what's going on with you buddy? And. Odysius basically tells the story of the. Odyssey. everything he's been through up. to that point. And um this is kind of uh.

I mean this is the part where. everybody's like when they talk about. the Odyssey, this is the stuff they're. talking about where he's recounting his. adventures in flashback to the Facians. >> That's right. And this is the real. flashback, I guess. I mean, we sort of. misspoke earlier, but I think everyone. gets it, right? >> Sure. >> Okay, great. This this is the part where. Matt Damon goes. >> So, as soon as Odysius uh leaves with.

his big fleet of ships, they're about. 600 soldiers. They're all headed home. from uh the the war at Troy once again. Um Athena sends some storms that way, veer the ships off course. Uh Athena is. mad at this point about war crimes that. they committed um in the the battles. when they conquered Troy. >> Yeah. and they land at the initially the. land of the lotus eaters um which are. you know they're eating lotus so they're. very blissful and you know they're. basically sort of doing drugs.

>> and Odysius's crew is like this place is. awesome can we stay here. >> yeah I was curious what that's an. allegory for what drug or whatever you. know. >> I mean I guess it was Lotus at the time. right. >> I guess but I've tried Lotus and it. doesn't get you messed up. >> okay. >> but Yes, this is what these people were. doing. And Odysius's crew is like, I'm. not sure we need to keep going back. home. Like, this is pretty great. These. Lotuses are amazing. The Lotus Eaters. are great people. Let's just stay here.

And Adysius has to drag every single one. of his men, all 600 of them, back to. their ships where he ties them up until. he finally gets the last one and is able. to set sail again from the land of the. Lotus Eaters. That is far and away the. best experience that these guys have on. the the Odyssey as it as a as a whole. because the next thing that happens to. them is actually the turning point that. really brings on everything else. All of. their misfortune. They seem to have.

started and then Adysius really drives. it home uh on the island of the Cyclops. >> That's right. uh obviously oneeyed. beasts uh cannibalistic even and they're. end up trapped in a cave there. Uh we. mentioned Poseidon's son is a cyclops. that's uh polifamus and he's just eating. these guys. Uh if you if you see the. movie um this is an actual puppet. It is. not CGI which is incredible. >> Um looks amazing. Yeah,

>> I'll bet. And Odysius blinds Polifamus. to get everyone out of there uh out of. the cave. And they are able to flee the. Cyclops. uh and then suffer another attack by a. tribe of giant cannibals called. >> the Lregonians. >> Yeah, nice work. >> So I just want to go back to um is it. Polyphamus or Polyphimmas? >> Polus. >> I would say Polyphamus. >> Okay. So like you said, he's a son of.

Poseidon. I read that Adysius and his. men came onto the island of the Cyclops. and just started eating all of. Polifamus's sheep and like basically. made terrible guests of themselves. Is. that not correct? >> Uh well that I don't know if that's in. the movie. I can't remember. >> Okay. But either way, I read that it wasn't just completely. one-sided that that Polamus was wronged. first. At any rate, um, after they. escape the lestreonians, this, which is another tribe of giants,

but I believe they're more humanlike, right? >> They're not in the movie either. >> Okay. >> Everything I know about the Odyssey, I. know from a little research and then. seeing that movie. >> Okay. Gotcha. So, in the book, the Lest. Dregonians, they come right after the. Cyclops. Um, and they are another tribe. of giant cannibals, but from what I saw, they're more humanlike. They're like. soldiers, but giant. They eat a bunch of. guys. And after that, um, there's the. shipwreck. And the reason why there's.

the shipwreck is because Polyphamus, son. of Poseidon, prays to his father and. says, "Please mess Adysius's junk up.". >> That's right. And so they end up on the. island of uh Cersei, who was a a a. goddess, sort of enchantress, sort of. portrayed like sort of witch-like. >> Yeah. and she falls in love with. Odysius. Um, she turns the guys, his his. dudes into pigs and Odysius gets a. little help from the gods and forces her. to turn them back into men so they can.

get on with stuff. >> Yeah, I saw I've read that that was like. the coolest, most disturbing scene in. the whole movie. Is that right? >> I mean, I don't know. It was great. Okay. So, uh, Adysius ends up getting. kind of hooked up by Cersei, um, who. basically says, "Head on to the land of. the dead because you're going to get a. lot of important, valuable information. there." He meets Agamemnon there, who. who was killed, uh, in the Iliad, and he. meets his mom there, which is nice. And.

then, most importantly, he meets. Tyreseius, who is a prophet of Apollo, who, as a side note, became a woman for. seven years. It's kind of interesting. And then um Tyreseius basically says, "You really need to make an offer to. Poseidon, some sort of sacrifice or. something, because he's really mad that. you blinded Polifamus, his son, the. Cyclops. And one other thing, this is. very important. Do not let anyone eat. the sun god's sacred cattle on the.

island of Helios. You're going to end up. on Helios. By the way, I'm a prophet, so. I know.". >> Yeah. So he says, "All right, check. Do. not eat sacred cattle." Got it. So. before going on to Ithaca, uh, Odysius. goes back to Cersei's Island. >> She's like, "I'm going to I'm going to. hook you up even further. Here's some. beeswax cuz you're not you're not going. to want to hear that siren song.". >> Sure. >> Protect all your guys. Uh, you need you. need to steer towards Sila because as. we'll see, there's a very narrow sort of.

passage that's very fraught. >> Yeah. M. >> and she says go towards Sila and not uh. not uh Kuribdus because that's the the. bad way. >> Um and also by the way I don't know if. anyone's mentioned this but man do not. eat any of that guy's cattle. >> So so now the second person to mention. this which suggests strongly that they. are definitely going to eat the cattle. >> Yeah, for sure. So, uh, after leaving. Cersei's island and setting sail, remember, every time they set sail, they're going toward home, toward.

Ithaca, and they just keep getting. delayed and shipwrecked and and. Poseidon's really messing with them. Uh, as per Polyphamus's request, the next. challenge that they go to is the sirens, which is why Cersei, like you said, gave. Adysius earwax. And Adysius is like, I. got to see what all this is about. So he. gives the earwax to all of his men and. says, "Lash me to the mast. I want to. hear it, but um no matter what I say, while I'm under the spell of the siren.

song, do not untie me.". >> And uh apparently it works out pretty. great. >> Yeah, he he uh he makes it through that. Uh they all survive and then they reach. that straight that Cersei had warned him. about uh which has monsters on both. sides. That's uh Sila and uh Kuribdus. Uh on the Sila side, you got a. six-headed beast who are is going to eat. you. >> On the Kibbda side, you're going to. encounter some massive whirlpools that. will destroy your ship like it's going.

down a toilet. >> And so Adysius is like, "All right, she. said to steer. >> uh to avoid that whirlpool and steal. toward steer toward that monster, towards Sila." Mhm. >> Uh, and they do that and the monster. eats a lot of those guys, but Adysius. managed to escape with with all but I I. think like six guys that get eaten, >> right, which is a pretty good trade-off. It's like a utilitarian lesser of two. evils, right? Lose the whole ship to the. whirlpool or lose six guys to Sila. It's. a pretty smart move, honestly. And if. you're like, "Wow, he really didn't have.

a good option." Uh, that's because. caught between Sila and Kuribdus is the. original version of caught between a. rock and a hard place. That's where that. came from. >> That's right. Uh so they eventually land. at Helios. Uh those sacred cattle are. everywhere. Uh they've gotten the two. warnings by now. And of course, like. Josh said, the Odysius's men eat that. cattle pretty quickly. >> Uh and more divine punishment is is. wrought upon them. And Zeus, because. Helios is like, "You got to do something.

here, Zeus." Zeus destroys the ship when. it departs the island. And at this point. now, Odysius is the only one still. living. and he washes ashore to meet. Calypso. And that is where the flashback. ends, >> right? Uh and then so let's go take a. break and we're going to come back and. wrap up the Odyssey and talk a little. more about uh what it means for. everybody. >> All right, we'll be right back.

Learning stuff with Joshua. stuff you should know. >> Okay, Chuck. Uh, now we're at book 12. The last 12 books are about his. homecoming, his notos, uh, which shares. the root with nostalgia. And like you.

said, the Facians are excellent hosts. So they they get him directly to Ithaca, finally get him home. But his homecoming. is not just him showing up and. everything's great. Like his kingdom has. fallen to shreds uh in in in the 20. years that he's been gone. Penelope has. been doing everything she can to hold it. all together, but she can only do so. much. So he's got to disguise himself, which he does as a beggar, to kind of. get the lay of the land to figure out. how to put things right again. >> That's right. So, in disguise, uh, only.

his old dog and his childhood nurse, uh, played by John Leguisamo, >> recognize him, but he, you know, he. doesn't sell him out. He keeps it a. secret. >> And he is being mistreated at the palace. by these suitors, of course, who I think. we've established are big jerks. >> Sure. >> Um, uh, Tyicus returns from his journey, and he's like, "All right, this is my. son. I I he's a grown-up Spider-Man now. and when I left him, he was just a. little kid. And so I got to like at.

least meet this guy and reveal myself to. him. And he does that. So he reveals. himself to his son at least. >> He does. Uh and his son's like, "Great. Let's figure out how to get the the. house back, right? And your kingdom and. everything." So they get together and. start planning how to get everything. back. And meanwhile, Penelope is finally. like, "Okay, my husband is dead." And uh. I'm going to hold a um a contest for all. of you suitors. Whoever can shoot an. arrow through 12 axe heads in a row,

which only Odysius has been able to do. Whoever can do that, I will marry. And. so they hold a contest or she does. And. every single one of the hundred suitors. misses. He can't do it. Then Odysius is. the beggar is like, "Can I have my try?". And she allows it. and he successfully. shoots the arrow through the 12 axe. heads and she knows that that's Odysius, but she still has a test for him. >> That's right. Well, before that though, the the big part of that is uh being.

able to string that bow. Uh because. apparently it's just some bow that's so. powerful that no one has ever been able. to even string it. >> Wow. >> Um so Adysius, of course, once he. strings that thing, everyone's like, "Oh, is that the dude?". >> Okay. Uh, and then the shooting the. arrow through is almost like the cherry. on top. >> Gotcha. Okay. >> Yeah. >> And then of course the suitors are like, well, if they suspect who he is or now. they know who he is, a huge battle takes. place with Adysius and Tmicus.

vanquishing is probably the best word. for it. All hundred suitors, right? And. I'm sure it's very satisfying to see. them all get their due. >> Yeah, they get their due. Uh, and after. the battle, Penelope, who is at this. point, she's like, I think that might be. my guy. like uh first of all, he looks. just like him, >> right? >> And second of all, he could string that. bow and no one else could. And then he. made that shot. So, it's just one of. those things where you have to suspend. disbelief a little bit. It's an ancient. text. >> Mhm. >> Uh you know, cuz you would think as soon.

as her husband walks through the door, he'd be like, "Honey, I'm home." And. she's like, "Oh my god, it's you.". >> Sure. >> Uh but she suspects that it's him and. confirms it in this way. Uh in front of. Adysius, she's asked for a servant to. move their marital bed. like, "Hey, can. you move this over here? I'm doing a. little redecorating.". >> And Odysius knows, he was like, "You. can't move that thing. I carved that bed. from a still live olive tree, so that. thing is still like literally rooted to. the ground. And I know that it can't be. moved." And she's like, "It is him.".

>> Yeah. And so they get back together. It's very sweet, I'm sure. Um there. Tmicus is there. Everything's going. really great. Um then a civil war breaks. out among the suitors families who many. of them are ready to avenge the death of. their family members. And before things. can get really out of hand, Athena, who's also the goddess of war in. addition to wisdom, steps in and says, "Stop this war. That's enough war for. now." And everybody lays down their arms. and Adysius is finally home and things.

are back to normal. It's like the end of. a Brady Bunch episode. Everything's just. back to normal. That's right. Except. cousin Oliver is there. So, everyone's. kind of wondering where he came from. >> So, we should probably talk a little bit. more about um just the history because I. wondered after I saw it because I again. I hadn't studied this so I didn't know a. lot about it. I was like I mean what. about like was any of this true? Was. there a a sort of standin for Odysius. and was there even a Trojan war and all.

this stuff? And it turns out like. probably not, right? >> Well, they do think that there is. probably a Trojan war. They do think. that they've kind of identified Troy. Um. it's a now it's a town that's called. Hizarlic. There's a mountain nearby. called that Hizarlic. And they're like, "We're pretty sure this is the actual. Troy that was originally discovered in. the 19th century by Hinrich Schlean.". And they it shows evidence of having. been burned and rebuilt time after time.

after time. But there's one lever or. layer, layer seven, that they're like, "This coincides with Homer's time, and. they found some things like they found a. a pile of rocks that they think is. slingshot ammunition outside of the. city, and they're like evidence of war.". So there historians seem to think that. this is probably Troy and it conceivably. gives some some backup to the idea that. there was a Trojan War and it did take. place during Homer's time,

>> right? Uh whether or not there was a. Trojan horse, uh there have been some. archaeological finds uh that were pre-. Odyssey that depicted men climbing out. of a giant wheeled horse. So you might. think like boom, of course there was. >> Yeah. Uh, but a lot of people think it. was probably like symbolic or maybe a. metaphor that Homer adapted. Um, there. are definitely routes and paths that. they sail that um are, you know, historically accurate throughout the. Mediterranean Sea, right? >> Although they don't know like the exact. path and if that's like a real thing. Um.

but they think that a lot of the stuff. like the monsters may be again symbolic. about uh seafaring um things that you. had to navigate around basically like. Sila and uh Kuribdus are the opposing. currents of the straight of Messina or. the sirens or maybe the shors along the. Mediterranean that are dangerous. >> Right? Some somebody uh pointed to Mount. Etna on Sicily as the cyclops, oneeyed.

cyclops, which was really destructive. >> Sure it does. Seems like a stretch to. me, but the the idea that these are. metaphors for navigating um commi. conditions that you have to look out for. makes a lot of sense because the this. these stories were told by seafaring. people. So that definitely holds a lot. of weight for sure. >> Yeah. Uh so my initial question is like. why is this thing still interesting to. people and it's you know it's because of. the story like it is a a truly timeless. story because and it has a lot of.

universal appeal because it's it's about. homecoming and everyone can identify. with that kind of thing at one point. >> Um you know a hero's struggle that's. certainly nothing new like that's still. a thing and you know almost every movie. Um, you know, there's coming of age, there's there's regret, there's. adventure, uh, there's family, there's there's good. guys and bad guys. It's like a lot of. just the tenants of great movie making. uh, are just kind of right there in.

black and white or I guess papyrus and. whatever color they printed uh, ink. with, >> right? And I think it also goes to show. like it touches on values that are so. universal at least you know to western. eyes and ears that they we still hold. those same values today. They still make. sense to us. They don't seem totally. foreign. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> Uh what else you got? Anything else? >> Yeah, I mean there's been adaptations. over the years uh beyond this movie. obviously. Uh 1922, the novel Ulyses by.

James Joyce was a big one because. Ulisses is the Latin version of Odysius. So that's what he's writing about in. that. >> Yeah. >> Uh there was a great novel. Um I haven't. read it yet, but I want to. Margaret. Atwood in 2005 wrote a novel called uh. the Penelopeiad. The Penelopeiad. How do. you say that? >> The Penelopead is what I'm. >> The Penelopead, I guess. >> Yeah. Like the Iliad and Penelope. It's. Penelopey. She combined those two. because it's the Odyssey told from.

Penelopey's point of view. >> Yeah, that's kind of cool. >> And then, oh brother, where art thou is. obviously an allegory for the Odyssey. I've never noticed it before. I I've. heard that ever since the movie came. out, and I never I still didn't ever. notice it, but I wonder now if I went. back and watched it if I would get it. >> I think so. I mean, it opens with a. quote from Homer on screen, so they they. clearly tell you like what this is, >> right? uh upfront and you know George. Clooney's character is named Ulyses. uh which is again the Latin version of.

Odysius. >> Okay. >> Uh it it's their journey home. >> Sure. >> Uh very you know sort of plainly uh. Penelope uh in the movie his wife's name. is Penny Holly Hunter. >> Okay. >> Uh there are suitors trying to uh take. her hand that he has to fight. >> Stay out of woolsworths. >> Exactly. There's a blind prophet uh that. is um you know there's just a blind. prophet in the movie. There's like a. blind seer, right?

>> Uh the psych the cyclops is big Dan. Teague, John Goodman's character. >> Why is he the Cyclops? >> Oh, he has a patch over his eye. That's. right. I forgot. >> Yeah. So, he's a Bible salesman. Uh the. sirens are like very clearly in there. They're like literally singing at the. creek and like they're under their. trance. Mhm. >> Uh Cersei and the pigs is more like the. toad. They told us you was a toad. >> Yeah, that's right. >> So it turns John into a toad instead of. a swine in this case.

>> Okay. All right. I guess I'm convinced. now. >> Yeah. And there's also like a Poseidon's. wrath is in there. Uh there's the the. song the suitors in the song when they. sing Man of Constant Sorrow. It's like. it's very kind of directly taken from. the Odyssey and only the way that the. Cohen brothers could do something like. that. >> They're great. They're so great. And there's a sequel, too, right? >> To the Oh, brother, where art thou? >> No, to the Odyssey. >> Yeah, the Teleggony, which is about. Odysius's other son that's not mentioned. in the Odyssey, but it's it supposes.

that he had a son with Cersei. >> on that island. And uh they produced the. son Tleggonus. And Tleggonus um is not. quite as loyal to his father as Tmicus. is because he goes home and kills. Odysius and he marries Penelope. Tmicus. just shrugs and says, "Okay, well, I. guess I'll marry Cersei to get back at. you." And they all become immortal. >> That's right. Uh they believe it was.

written by a Greek poet named uh Yugamon. ofSirene. Um the funny thing about this. one is it was actually lost to history. So what we know about the tleggony has. is references from other writings about. it. So. >> uh maybe one day if the Odyssey is ever. truly lost to history. >> that you will listen to this podcast. >> Oh yeah. >> to write the next version. >> Man, that was amazing. Uh that's it for the Odyssey. We could.

turn this into a 20 part series if we. wanted to, but we don't. Uh and if. you're like, I really like the movie. I. really like this episode. There's so. much to read about interpreting the. Odyssey that's just super fascinating. So, go forth and multiply your awareness. of the Odyssey. And in the meantime, everybody, I think it's time for. listener mail. >> Uh, this is about rope. Hey guys, uh, longtime listener. I love the rope. episode. I especially enjoyed the. history of rope making, the explanation. of how something so seemingly simple is.

actually a pretty ingenious piece of. technology. >> I do think you guys missed a cool. opportunity, though. uh to talk about rope as a. transformative lifting technology. Uh I. think we might have like briefly said. something about raising houses, but. maybe not even. >> Yeah. >> Uh while sailing ships were undoubtedly. critical to connecting the world, rope, especially combined with bullies, it's. what allowed us to turn human and animal. muscle into something enormously more. useful. Think about how much of ancient. civilization depends on moving very. heavy things upward. Temples, city. walls, aqueducts, bridges, you name it.

Rope didn't just rig the ships and build. civilizations. help build the. civilizations themselves. Uh anyway, great episode, guys. Thanks for making. me spend the rest of the day thinking. about rope. Not something I expected to. do. That is from Jonathan. >> Thanks a lot, Jonathan. You make a great. case just like you did, Chuck, with um. comparing O Brother and the Odyssey. >> Okay. Uh if you want to be like. Jonathan, and send us an awesome email, we love that kind of thing. Uh, you can. wrap it up, spank it on the bottom with.

a sword and send it off to stuffodcast@. iheartradio.com. Stuff you should know is a production of. iHeart Radio. For more podcasts, iMheart. Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple. Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your. favorite shows.