The Murder of Jane Stanford | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW

[music]. >> Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a. production of iHeart Radio. >> [music]. [music]. >> Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm. Josh, and there's Chuck, and Jerry's. here, too. And this is Stuff You Should. Know, true crime murder mystery edition, like in the purest form in that we do. not know who did it, sorry, [music]. who done it. Yeah. And we may never know. We probably will. never know, even though we kind of know,

it seems [music] like. Yeah. I don't. think we'll ever know. Uh this was a. listener suggestion. Okay. And I actually from from a year. ago, almost to the day. Oh, that's creepy. Some sometimes we. like to do that, you know. Sure. It's like, yeah, great idea. We'll. do it in 1 year. Yeah. We're like, great. idea. So, uh this has been sitting in the. kitty for a while. This is from Samuel. Kroll. And uh Olivia helped us out. And it's uh.

it's a real banger about the history of. uh in a way, the history of Stanford. University. It really is. And one of its. co-founders. and her pretty obvious murder. Yeah. And the Stanfords were very much. intertwined with the early years of. Stanford University. Cuz after all, you. can't spell Stanford without Stanford. And the reason that this is a murder. mystery is because one of the Stanfords. dies mysteriously. We're not going to. say who. You'll figure it out toward the.

end. I think I already did. >> um I. I say we jump in and just start talking. about Jane Stanford, who is. for the most part, the star of our show. That's right, because she was murdered. Man. I had already said it. >> big twist. Did you not hear me? Or are you just Is. this all a bit? Uh. It's a bit. Okay. >> [laughter]. >> I didn't hear you, but it is still a. bit. What did you say that was so. pivotal? >> I I said that she was murdered and then.

you said we're not going to say he was. murdered right afterwards. Oh, I didn't. hear you say that. I see. Yeah. Well, we'll just edit all this out. No, we. should leave it. So, uh Jane Stanford. was. uh. you know, she was sort of the the. prototypical Gilded Age uh wife at the. time uh supporting her husband. That was. kind of a job and not kind of it was. like a real job. Mhm. Um sort of. entertaining um keeping up with uh like. large residences when you have tons of. money, that kind of thing. Mhm. Um but.

she would go on to be a She was a very. demanding person it seems like and would. go on to be a very demanding um kind of. lead trustee at at Stanford University. and some might even say a micro manager. Oh, yeah. I think she definitely fits. that mold for sure. But as a micro. manager, she would just say, "I just. want to make sure it's done right.". Right. Right. She had some very distinct. um ideas that she wanted fulfilled with. Stanford and she had the money to back. it up basically. Yeah, for sure. But uh. she was born a little background here in.

upstate New York in Albany. in 1828. Uh. one of seven kids. Uh she was born. wealthy. Her parents were shopkeepers. and she would eventually marry a guy. named Leland Stanford. She was born Jane. Lathrop and then would be Jane Stanford. or Jane Lathrop Stanford. He was also. from upstate New York and he was an. attorney practicing in Wisconsin. I keep. wanting to say Win- Wisconsin. You can say that's all right. People in. Wisconsin don't care. Well, we're going.

to Madison in April. I can't say that in. front of them. I think you can. I I I really think. they'll support it. >> They are nice people. Uh yes, pretty much to a person. Except for that one. >> she was. >> [laughter]. >> uh they know who they are. Uh Jane was 22 at the time. and they were apart for the beginning of. their marriage though, right? Geographically. Yeah, um Jane moved back to Albany um. after they got married and they were.

living in uh Wisconsin. She wanted to. care for her father, which put that just. off to the side. It's not a huge thing, but she she cared for her father until. his death. After he died um she joined her husband. Leland. uh out west. He was a gold prospector. Um well, actually, I don't think he ever. got into prospecting. He was a um a. goods dry goods. shop owner Mhm. who outfitted. prospectors. And he fulfilled like the.

quintessential golden rule of business. in a gold rush, don't prospect, sell. shovels. That's exactly what he did. Yeah. Cuz you know what? You may not. find gold, but you can always sell a. shovel to a gold miner. That's precisely. right. Why speculate when you can. I don't know, regulate. No, I was about. to say, man, if you don't rhyme that. thing. I know. I don't even know who you are. I still. didn't do a very good job, but at least. it rhymed. No, I thought it was pretty.

good. So, uh he made some pretty good. money doing that, but he really really. got rich when he became one of the big. four robber barons that put their money. forth to finance the Central Pacific. Railroad in 1861. >> And all of a sudden, they had this big. uh life as as wealthy people uh and he. said, "Well, why not just get into. politics as well?" Well, the big four. basically got him into politics to to.

represent their interests, basically. Like they put up some of their money, but for the most part, they used Leland. Stanford's um run as the governor of. California and then later on as a. senator uh in the the United States. Senate. to basically lean on the government to. get the government to underwrite the. building of the railroad to um make. connections so that you could bribe. people more easily. Like it was a. swindle. That's how those dudes made that. railroad. They ended up with a monopoly. They. secretly bought the Southern Pacific.

Railroad and all of a sudden Leland. Stanford's the president of that now, too. So, just. to just kind of like just paint it with. a big brush. The Stanfords made their. money in very um. questionable ways. So, just just. remember that cuz this is like such a. it's such a great example of American. myth-making where some guy just. basically fails upward and becomes super. super wealthy and then, you know, very. shortly after that he becomes lionized.

as like this great heroic builder of. America. And that's just I'm just so. sick of that. It still goes on today. I. mean, have most of the robber barons. been kind of kneecapped? Uh yeah, I think so, but I think at. least some of them were legitimately. philanthropists. I don't think Leland Stanford was. legitimately a philanthropist. I get the. impression or I've actually seen it. written that basically they laundered. their ill-gotten gains.

through the university to to leave a. prestigious legacy for themselves. instead. All right. Well, they were. smart for the first 18 years of their. marriage and did not have kids. And then they ruined that all kind of. later in life for them. when little Leland Jr. was born. Jane. was 39 at the time, which is. especially for the time Yeah. a bit of. an advanced age to to give birth. Certainly, you know, not without risk. And. Leland Sr. was like you said, he got.

involved in politics. They also I mean. they they had their fingers in a lot of. pies. They ran a few wineries. They raised horses. This is just a little kind of fun side. note that Livia dug up, but. you know, the very famous um. Edward Muybridge uh his early motion. picture film when he set up 24 cameras. and showed like a horse running, which A. said like, "Hey, we can have something. called motion pictures." And also said, "Hey, look, that horse has all of its. four feet off the ground at the same. time." Mhm. Um that was done on their.

property, the Palo Alto uh stock farm. So, just a fun little thing and that's. where Stanford University eventually. would be. Did you ever see um the Jordan Peele. movie Nope? Uh yep. I thought that was a cool little. just a little um lagniappe. where the um. oh, I don't remember his name, but he. was also in Get Out, too. The main guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Where he he's and his. character is descended from the jockey.

that rode that horse. >> Yeah, I thought that was cool, too. Daniel something, right? I don't. remember. I feel like a total jerk, but. Well, you know, you can't remember. everything off the dome. But it turns out in real life that. jockey's name was Dom, D O M M. They think maybe Gilbert Dom. So, you know his name. Yeah, but I looked it up this morning. So, all right, that's it, smart guy. Here we go. >> everybody knows that guy's name. Here we. go. >> [laughter].

>> So, uh sadly, uh Leland Jr. would not. live very long. He died at 15. He went. to Europe with his mom. And uh it's pretty bad thing, obviously. a tragedy for the family. Uh but a very. interesting thing happened at the. funeral when a young woman named Bertha. Berner was there. and met Jane, would later write her a. letter and say, "Hey, I think you could. use a person like me in your life. Um we'll call it personal secretary or. whatever, but basically your right-hand.

person to kind of help you with. everything that you need." Yeah. Like you said, like uh the just the. classic um Gilded Age wife, right? Yeah. Okay. Along with a little spiritualism. thrown in. Yeah, that was a big one and and you. know, that gets kind of tossed around. quite a bit. Um that that the Stanfords. in particular, Jane, were really heavy. into spiritualism. Well, all out of. people were heavy into spiritualism at. this time. [clears throat] So, it was. generally looked down upon from the. halls of academia. So, in a way it was a.

little awkward for the university for. their founders to have been into. spiritualism, but it wasn't just. completely out of left field. No, not at not, you know, among. especially among sort of wealthy elites. They were into that kind of thing. But. it also, I mean, there was a that the. death of Edward or the death of Leland. Jr. was a really huge turning point. Apparently, they were kind of dabbling. in it, but after that she kind of. devoted herself to getting a message. from or getting in contact, I guess,

with Leland Jr. again. And she tried for. a long time and then I think in the end, she was um she was dissatisfied. She. couldn't find anybody that she. considered legitimate enough to actually. do it. Even though she believed it was. possible, she she found that everyone. she came in contact with was a fraud or. huckster. So, and she's probably right. Uh. so, Berner gets this job. Um you know, people from the outside were like, "Man, she really works hard for for Jane. Stanford. Like she doesn't seem to have. any time off.".

Uh she kind of is is run by Jane. Stanford, but they were very close and. she would be with her until the day she. died. But it been in that. Uh and in. fact, would get quite rich uh from her. death. Uh I think she she got 15 grand. Uh the other household staff got $1,000. each in the will, but uh Berner got 15. grand, which is about half a million. today. So, not too bad. No, not bad at. all. Uh I also I just want to say before we. move on, the actor's name is Daniel.

Kaluuya. Great. So, it was Leland Junior's death that. actually inspired. the founding of Stanford University. There are a couple of stories about how. that might have happened. I think Leland. took maybe the the more um. acceptable mainstream. version, which is hey, it came to me in. a dream after my son's death. But there was a medium, Maud Lord Drake, who said, "No, that actually happened in. a seance with me. It was a visitation from the afterworld.

that I mediated and he just doesn't want. to say that out loud, so he just called. it a dream." Yeah. Her famous quote was, "Who has two thumbs and was the medium. who got Leland Junior to tell his. parents that he wanted them to found a. university?" And she said, "Me." Yeah, Maud Lord Drake. Um so, yeah, and you could actually. make a case that the if the if the. university was true to form at the time, it's quite possible that they the. Stanfords claimed that it was from, you.

know, this this seance, but the. university just basically whitewashed. that over and it became a dream instead. That's right. So, Chuck, regardless of how it came. about, the Stanfords said that. although they had lost their son, now. the children of California would become. their children. And to do that, they. founded Stanford University. For those. of you who aren't familiar, it's one of. the most prestigious universities in the. world as far as I know, certainly in the. US. Um. it was the the cradle for um our current.

tech explosion. Um and it's just a really great. university. It's official name is Leland. Stanford Junior University, after Leland. Stanford Junior. Still today, that's. what it's called. And if you look at the. details of how it was founded and what. its mission was when it was opened, it's. like the the Stanfords definitely did a. good job of opening a public university. Yeah, it was pretty unique. Tuition was.

free first of all, so that was fairly. unique. So it you know, they let in. students that couldn't afford to go to. college otherwise. Yeah. Jane said, I. want to make it a co-ed school. There. were just a handful of those in the in. the United States at the time. Mhm. And. also I'm doing Sergio. You're what? I'm doing Sergio, Jane. said. >> Oh, I got you. The other sort of odd thing was that it. was not associated with a church. It was.

a Christian. university, but it wasn't like, you. know, Jane again was was dabbling in the. occult. So she she had sort of loose. sort of a loose association with. particular denominations. So it was a non-denominational Christian. school. Very much kind of a liberal arts. thing at first. It would later and in. fact it you know, it was part of the. friction between Jane and the eventual. president on what kind of school it. would be.

She wanted it more liberal arts and he. wanted it more science and research. research-based. Yeah, but even out of. the gate apparently it was for preparing. students for personal success and direct. usefulness in life. One of the things. they did was they created an extension. service for local farmers to find out. the latest agricultural techniques. They. accepted high school shop classes as. credits. Like it they they were it wasn't just. this. it wasn't an elite institution meant to. create a new generation of elites like.

say Harvard was at the time. Just at the. time. By the way, in my defense, I I didn't recognize your Jane's. Addiction line. because. I think that lyric is wrong. I think it's I'm done with Sergio. Oh, I think that's the second verse. Is it? I will say anything to to make myself. right. Okay. I just when he said doing. Sergio, I was like, who the hell is. Sergio? Why is he. >> she was doing Sergio. That's that's the.

point. Okay. He he treated her like a. ragdoll. Well, see now you're you're getting back. on the good side of history. >> [laughter]. >> Well done. Thanks. Uh all right, so. Stanford is opening up. It's October. 1st, 1891. Leland gives a great speech, Leland senior, of course. And Jane apparently had a real banger of. a speech written and she said that she. didn't have the courage to actually do. it. But had she, it would have gone over. pretty well, I think, because.

in it there was a a plea to the students. like, "Hey, we're a new school. Um you. know, got to work out the kinks here. Maybe be a little patient. And hey, if. you're a young male student here, you. know, you have girls around, please. treat these young ladies with great. deference. And you might have some kids. who don't come from wealthy backgrounds. because it's a free school. And maybe. treat them well, as well." So, you know, she has this great letter written and. never says it publicly, unfortunately. No, but I mean. all of these points supported our.

overall point, like we said, which is. they they did a pretty good job of. founding a university. Like the mission. was great, the details were pretty. great. Better than we've done. For sure. Ours is still kind of getting. off the ground. It's just basically. a grift right now. Right. But hopefully. we'll be able to build it into something. real. Yeah. Um there is a. an issue with finding a president. Apparently the presidents they were. looking for were like, "I'm good here. I. don't feel like moving out west." I. think that was a big part of it. Like. California was not like California as it.

is now. The Stanford University helped. make northern California what it is now. Mhm. Um so it was still rugged, you. know? They couldn't get all any just any. eastern college president to to hop from. his college out to Stanford, they. finally found a former president of. Indiana University named David Starr. Jordan, who was also an ichthyologist by. training and trade. Um, he he finally took them up on the. offer. That's right. Uh, and he also had.

a lot of pretty um, gross views on things. Yeah, like super. In retrospect, he was uh, into eugenics. Uh, he thought scientific racism was. pretty great and that if you're. uh, unfit, like if you're disabled or if. you're in prison, maybe we should just. sterilize you. And yeah, women should. get educated, but um, just so they can. like be smarter in the home as. homemakers. He was also like a vocal pacifist, which.

you're kind of like, oh, okay, that's. that's not bad. The reason why he was a. pacifist was because he felt war. promoted racial degradation because you. send the fittest young men off to die. That leaves the weak to stay home and. procreate and it degenerates the race or. society back home. That was the reason. he was a pacifist and anti-war. Oof. Yeah, there was nothing he could do. right, basically, with all that set of. views. Yeah, I agree. Um, I think we. should probably take a break.

Yeah. >> Set the stage for Stanford's founding. Sure. And uh, we'll be right back with. more on Jane Stanford. If you want to. know, [singing] then you're in luck. Just listen to. Josh and Chuck's. Stuff You. Should Know. >> [singing]. >> Stuff You [singing] Should. Know. Stuff. You Should Know.

>> [singing]. >> Okay, so uh, we're whittling down the. people who could possibly have been. murdered because Leland Jr.'s dead now. Now Leland Sr. dies. There are very few. people left of the Stanfords. Two have. been the murder victim. Now it's just. Jane, if that gives anything away. That's right. Uh so, Jane was left as. the basically the only trustee of the. early university. And she had a situation going on with. the US government where they were like. there was a lawsuit. Uh 15 million bucks.

in 1893 dollars and uh. the kind of central point of it was they. the government was like, "Hey, um. because you were or your husband and. your family was part, you know, like. founded and has ownership shares of the. Central Pacific Railroad Company, you. should also be responsible for that. company's debts. And we helped finance. this thing, so like you need to pay us. back for these bonds that we sold.". >> That's right. >> And she actually won that case, which. all of a sudden.

um you know, they kind of had frozen her. assets, so all of a sudden these assets. were open and she gave a huge chunk of. 1899 dollars to Stanford in the to the. tune of 10 million bucks. Yeah, and we. should say to her credit, before that, so this went on for six years from what. I can tell. During that six-year time, the court. gave her a 300 in today's dollars, about. a $365,000. a month allowance. And she spent most of it, she gave most. of it to Stanford to run Stanford with.

So she wasn't just like, "Well, I'm. good. Good luck, Stanford." So and then yeah, after her assets were unfrozen, she was. like, "Hey, how about 10 million. dollars?" And everyone said, "God, this. is great. How wonderful." And she's. like, "But but but but Wait a second. There's a couple of strings I'm going to. attach to this." And they were um. strings that you would find hard to. swallow. Like the kind of strings you. would put down your nose and pull out. your mouth at the same time, back and. forth. They were those kind of strings.

Yeah, I mean she she basically had total. and complete control of what happened. there. Um including like how many trustees. there would even be so she wouldn't get. a lot of pushback. Uh, like I said, she was a micromanager, um, but not to her. To her, she just. wanted things done right. Sure. And she. basically had complete control over the. university, um, said, you know, like who could get in, who could get out, uh, what teachers. they could hire as staff. Um, there she. said that they they capped, even though.

it was her idea to make it a coed. school, which is great, she capped it at. 500 women. Mhm. Um, because she didn't. want it she thought after that people. may think it's a a women's college and. that men might stop applying and that. cap was in place for a while even after. she died until they got rid of it. Yeah, I read that she also, um, had been. told rumors that the men students were, um, being distracted by the women. students. And Susan B. Anthony wrote her and was.

just appalled and was like, "What are. you doing?" She stuck with it. She was. very adamant about that and like you. said, I don't think it was until the. '30s where they finally were like, "We. can't just keep it at 500." So they. lifted that. Yeah, so Star, uh, the. president did not like this at all. He. didn't like having someone, um, sort of. that much in the business. Uh, it seems like they had a a pretty, um, friction-riddled relationship. >> Yeah. Uh, especially, you know, she she. tried to get some of the spiritualism in. there. Um, I mentioned before that she.

wanted to focus on the liberal arts but. she also wanted to create an academic. chair in psychic psychology. Uh, she also tried to hire this, um, philosopher named William James, who was. a guy who was very much involved in the. paranormal as a visiting professor. Yeah, he was also, um, the father of. psychology so he would have been quite a. catch but I think just his association. with the paranormal made, um, Jordan kind of like dismiss everything. else. Yeah, I could see that. Uh, she.

finally got this guy named Julius uh, Gerbil. Not Gerbils. He He I don't know if he. dropped that S or not. But or I guess this was pre-World War. II, so he didn't even know yet. But he. It seems like he was hired basically to. kind of look out. over the shoulder of David Starr Jordan, which he certainly didn't appreciate. No, and he reported back to Jane. Stanford that Jordan was basically a. patron of the science department and.

anti liberal arts departments and that. that he was basically running the. university like that. He was He was. going behind Jane Stanford's back to win. that argument over whether it should be. a science or a liberal arts college. And. then one thing that really kind of made. huge waves as far as her micromanagement. went, you said that she wanted to have. control over who was hired, she also. felt like she was totally within her. rights to to say fire that guy for. whatever reason. And there was a.

professor named Edward A. Ross who was a. social scientist and he was very much. vocal in his support for William. Jennings Bryant who was a Democrat. And. she did not like that. She was not in. favor of William Jennings Bryant, so she. told Jordan to fire him and Jordan. eventually buckled under pressure and. this became like a national scandal. about whether there was academic freedom. at all at Stanford. It was a huge deal. Well, I think everyone sees where this.

is headed. and this I guess we'll just classify as. murder attempt number one. In January of 1905, there was a servant. that put some water on her nightstand. before Jane Stanford was going to to bed. in there in San Francisco. She drank some of it, said this doesn't. taste quite right. So she went and. gagged herself and made herself throw up. and then. gave it to her secretary and said, "Here, you try this." Right. She tried.

it and was like, "Yeah, this doesn't. taste right." So, they sent it to a. pharmacy and found that it in fact was. poison. It was uh it was rat poison. Um. not not full strychnine, but just sort. of over-the-counter rat poison. Yeah, which is bad enough. I mean, it. can kill you for sure. Um so, this was I. mean, I I can't imagine that. Like, if. if somebody had put rat poison in your. water, um so, she was like, "I'm I'm. getting out of here." I guess after the. the report came back a few weeks later. that it was rat poison. She went to.

Hawaii. I read that she was ultimately. on her way to Japan and that Hawaii was. just a stop. I also read that she was. trying to get out of dodge and get away. from having been poisoned. Oh, yeah. So, news of this poisoning started to spread. and Jordan, president of Stanford, was. like, "Nope, no scandals, please. We. just had that huge deal with firing. Edward A. Ross. Uh there was no. poisoning. Jane Stanford doesn't think. she was poisoned. It's all just some, you know, misunderstanding. So, nothing. to see here, everybody.".

Right. So, the media is not fully buying. this. Uh at least the local media. They. they continue to kind of speculate and. write about it. And investigate, you know, people that. were on the scene, notably the servants. that were in the house at the time. Um for a little while, they kind of. cooked up a case um because it seems. like fully about uh anti-Chinese. prejudice going on in California at the. time um of her Chinese cook. But, there. was no motive, no evidence at all. So, that kind of went away. And then the. police did come in. They questioned some. of the servants, but everybody was.

uh exonerated by the cops in the end. Yeah, every single one. Um so, Stanford. also hired um Stanford the university, I. guess through Jordan, hired a private. detective and he did a um he did a an. investigation and basically was like, "Okay, sure. There was rat poison in the. water. It was added after the fact for. one servant to frame another. And I. don't think any of the servants were. named. It was just a theory that was.

like good enough. We're not even going. to publicize that one. Let's just let. this die. Meanwhile, Jane Stanford has. gone to Hawaii. Remember, she's in. Waikiki at the Moana Hotel, which is. still there. And she's taken two people with her. Bertha Berner, the secretary uh who's. been with her for years now. Um who she. was like, "Here, you taste this.". And a new maid, May Hunter, who was not, I don't believe, even on the staff at. the time of that first poisoning.

attempt. She took both of them to Hawaii. with her. Yeah, so she's holed up there. Um. we should point out that Berner did not. want to go. She had a ill mother in. California and she wanted to stay and be. with her. Jane Stanford said, "Nope, you're coming to Hawaii with me." Yeah, that's why I pointed out her how Jane. Stanford went back to Albany to care for. her father until he died. That's right. So, a couple of weeks. uh into Hawaii, uh this is February. 28th. We'll call this uh murder um well,

successful murder, not murder attempt. number two. Um she said, "Hey, I I got a little. upset tum-tum. Go get me some baking. soda and water.". And uh Berner went and did that and. around 11:00, she's. not feeling too good. She was like, "I'm. really, really sick. I think I've been. poisoned again." And they call in uh a. local doctor, um Francis Humphris, who came to the hotel room and by that. time, uh Jane Stanford was in pretty bad. shape. Yeah, her um her she was showing some.

telltale signs of strychnine poisoning. Remember, they somebody put rat poison. in her Poland Spring water. Um that's. strychnine. And if you take strychnine, some very, very telltale things uh take. place over your body because strychnine. interferes with your nerve receptors or. your muscle receptors, I guess, along. your spinal column and you suddenly are, um, having like massive violent, involuntary muscle clenching. And they.

follow like certain patterns or whatever. and Jane, um, was following these these. the same, um, I guess, progression of. strychnine poisoning is certainly what. it looked like and ultimately she died. with her body clenched still and, um, I. think she died at 11:40 about. a little over 30 minutes after she had. gotten up and said she thought she'd. been poisoned. Uh, yeah. And, well, I think that's a. perfect time, actually, for act three to.

resume. Yeah? This is where the gun goes. off. All right, right after this we'll. be right back. If you want to know, [singing] then. you're in luck. Just listen up. to Josh and Chuck. Stuff you should. know. Stuff you [singing] should. know. Stuff. you should know.

>> [singing]. >> All right, so Jane Stanford is now dead. Uh, her last words were, "This is a. horrible death to die." That's terrible. >> Uh, allegedly. And Jordan was like, "All right, this is. no good. Um, you know, it's no good if. she was murdered, it's no good if it was. suicide. Like, this is all just bad. news. Um, we have to kind of get this. thing taken care of so the university. can, um, not be tainted by the death of. this woman. And he gets a trustee,

uh, he flies out there with I get this. guy, Timothy Hopkins, to Hawaii. Um, they said they were going to get the. body. and there was, uh, also a couple of San. Francisco police detectives that went, uh, guy named Harry Reynolds and Jules. uh, Callan. of the Morris Detective Agency. They go. there obviously to investigate this. death cuz at the time Hawaii is very. rural sort of. I think they there wasn't a lot of trust. in like either of the well both the. local cops and the local doctors. Yeah, I think it'd been a territory for either.

3 years or 5 years at that point. It was. considered a backwater essentially. I. think also Jordan was getting there so. he could do whatever he could to control. the narrative. And those two detectives were working at. the behest of the university essentially. not the public. So the a coroner's jury was convened on. March 8th. Remember she died on February 28th so. about a week later and they heard 3 days. of testimony and after the 3 days of. testimony they adjourned for 2 minutes.

before they came back and said she was. murdered by poison. That's right but that was no good for. Stanford University so Jordan. was like all right, let me see if I can. rewrite this narrative. He gets another. physician in there. A guy named Dr. Waterhouse. has his own separate private. investigation. Waterhouse doesn't. examine the body. He just goes on the. description of events as they happened. He heard Berner say.

hey you know when we were at this picnic. she really ate a lot. and she had tummy trouble. That's why I. was getting her that soda water at the. end of the night. And he put out a. four-page report that said that was. fully announced to the media that no it. was not poisoning. She died of heart. failure. And the local doctor and the local cops. were pretty furious. Yeah, so this is what Waterhouse came up. with and this is what Jordan took back. to the mainland and presented to. everybody and said this is what really.

happened. This doctor said so that she. had overeaten tongue sandwiches, undercooked gingerbread, lots of coffee, bunch of chocolate candy, had a basically indigestion, made. herself hysterical from the indigestion, and got so hysterical that her heart. stopped. That's how she died. That's basically. what President Jordan came back and and. told the world. And it actually worked. It worked because he was a white man in. a prominent position, and people just. listened to him because who are you.

going to listen to? This guy or the. Hawaii authorities? Yeah, and you know, the media was covering and in Hawaii, the media was covering kind of their. side of things, but in the lower 48, especially in San. Francisco, that Jordan narrative was the one that. got out. Um he was criticizing the local. doctors. He was criticizing the local. cops. Um he said in fact he he flat out. accused the local doctor there of adding. strychnine after the death to make it.

look like a murder. Mhm. And said, you. know, Berner was a very close friend. Uh. there's no way that she would have um. been any part, you know, she was her. trusted secretary for years. There's no. way she that she had any part in any of. this. And again, the San Francisco PD. and the public and the press were like, "Okay, good enough for us. You said that. the one person who was present at both. poisonings is A-OK in your book? Great. She's off the hook. We're not even going. to investigate her thoroughly.". Yeah, and it kind of went away from.

there. For a little while, the the local. papers in San Francisco covered it. Um. you know, they said that there was still. investigations ongoing and that people, you know, would be brought in and. arrested or at least um you know, investigated. And that lasted for about. a month, and no charges were ultimately. filed at all. And it was kind of like that's the way. it went until the early 2000s. It just. kind of went cold until a writer named. Robert W. P. Cutler, who was a neurology.

professor at Stanford and a physician. put out a book called uh The Mysterious. Death of Jane Stanford. Yeah, and this. was a big deal to question the orthodoxy. which was, like you said, for a century. that she died of natural causes. That's. just what the official line was and. that's, you know, the idea that she'd. been poisoned just completely fell out. of the public awareness or imagination. until Cutler brought it back in 2003. And he was a neurology professor from. Stanford. So he had like a certain.

amount of um. medical background that he applied into. this research. And one of the first. things he did was investigate whether uh. Robert S. Jordan had any basis in um. questioning the the qualifications of uh. Dr. Humphris and the other doctors that. were there. And he found that no, actually, they did a a really good job. of trying to revive her. And then all. once they once she was dead preserving. the evidence because it was so clear to.

these guys that it was um strychnine. poisoning cuz she was showing all the. telltale signs. So they preserved. evidence in the uh in the room with her. They preserved the um. sodium bicarbonate, I guess, jar, the. spoon, the glass that it had been served. in, uh the chamber pot, and some vomit. of hers. That's gross. It is gross, but not only. did they preserve it, they got a judge. to come in who was served as a witness. while they handed it over to the.

sheriff. Then the judge accompanied the. sheriff while he took this evidence to. the chief sanitary officer at the um. Board of Health for Hawaii. And when. they when they carried out this autopsy, there were seven doctors and a. toxicologist who worked on this autopsy. Um three of the doctors hadn't been at. the scene, so they hadn't they hadn't. seen They were just working with just. the body and all the evidence that they. got from the body. And they had a. mortician and a morgue assistant act as. witnesses. Essentially, you could not do.

a better job of handling a suspected. murder poison case than these guys did. in Hawaii. Yeah, he also found a letter from Jordan. to the president of the Board of. Trustees that had, you know, just a lot. of different explanations. He said, "If. the tonic theory of strychnine is not. acceptable, you have the other that it. was put in by the doctor just to bolster. up his case." And after he had time to. read up on the symptoms a little, he's a. man without professional or personal. standing. So, he was uh it seems like it.

was just such a clear cover-up that he. was offering up all these different. theories of what could have happened. besides the obvious. >> Yeah. And uh Cutler was like, you know, it is. super obvious. Uh he didn't come out and like accuse. anyone, but he did sort of offer some. ideas. Um maybe Berner, the personal. secretary, uh maybe she was there and. had the opportunity to do something even. though she didn't have much of a motive. Uh Jordan certainly had the motive, but. he wasn't there, so maybe those two were.

in cahoots or something. Yes. Um. so, that's kind of where it sat. This. this 2003 book, The Mysterious Death of. Jane Stanford, it got some pretty good. press um that's still around today that. um you know, book reviews and stories. and stuff like that. Um. and that just kind of faded away again. Uh even though he he he had kind of. upset the balance that had been around. for a hundred years, there wasn't. anything major about it until about 20.

years later, another book from another. Stanford professor, the historian named. Richard White, came out. And he just. came out and said it, Who Killed Jane. Stanford? was the title of his book. And. he, like Cutler, did a really good job. of digging into the story and finding. new evidence that as far as he's. concerned pointed to the murderer. Yeah, I mean, he said that Jordan. definitely covered this thing up. Uh. but he said, "I don't know if he would. have been the murderer though because. just her dying period was not good for.

the university. Uh. you know, either way, if it was suicide, that's no no good. Uh if it's murder, that's certainly no. good. Um so, he doesn't he didn't think. that um Jordan would have gone that far. because Jordan really wanted to protect. Stanford at all costs.". >> Yeah, and you might be like, "Well, uh. what's the what's the problem with. that?" Well, the murder, that's a. scandal. The suicide was a legal problem. because it would call into question her.

her um. her uh mental fitness at the time that. she had uh offered that grant. And so, all of a sudden, heirs, people connected. to him, relatives would have come out of. the woodwork uh challenging that $10. million grant and saying, "No, that that. money's supposed to go to us instead.". So, he really did have every reason to. cover this up, and it definitely seems. that that's that was his motivation. He. but like you said, he probably had. nothing to do with the murder. Instead, Richard White trains his spotlight on.

Bertha Berner, and he disagrees with. Cutler, who Cutler was like, "She didn't. really have a motive even though she had. opportunity." He was like, "They weren't. the best motives, but there are a couple. of motives that she had. One, she knew. that she was getting an inheritance, and. maybe she wanted it sooner than later. And two, she could have just gotten sick. of. basically being um. having to devote her life to Jane. Stanford because that's what was. expected of her. Yeah, the job that she. voluntarily asked for. Yes, but Jane.

Stanford like tried to keep her from. having any kind of personal life, and. that was not the kind of person Bertha. Berner was. So, that was just a constant. source of tension between them. Um and. who knows? Supposedly, both of them were. like, "No, we're actually good friends.". But uh there were people for on the. outside who were like, "It's kind of I'm. not sure if they're actually friends.". That's right. So, that's it. That's the. death of Jane Stanford. Uh probably. never be solved. Uh Jordan continued to. work there as university president until.

1913. Uh Berner lived um pretty well, you. know, cuz she got had all that dough. from uh the will. And she, you know, people were suspicious of her, but she. basically lived a pretty decent life. until she died in 1945. Yeah, she wrote two biographies on Jane. Stanford before she died. And um. neither one of them revealed much of. anything. So, it's almost teasing, tantalizing, if you. will. That's it. Well, since Josh said that's. it, it's time for listener mail. You.

bet. Uh I'm going to call this weird. coincidence because we have these. episodes that come out [music] from time. to time that line up with the news. And that's what happened with our lasers. episode. Uh it came out in real time today, the. day after. uh we learned that a laser was used to. shoot down a drone at the El Paso. airport and closed the airport down. Wow. So, uh this is uh Josh and Chuckers. equal deep state. Um secures chin strap to my tin foil.

hat. I'm officially on to you guys. You. release an episode about lasers the day. after the FAA closes the El Paso. airport. And their cover story is they. had [music] to shoot drones with their. new lasers. You might slip this one past. some of the other sheep listening, but. oh, no, not this guy. I want to know who. you really work for, guys. Is it Jerry? Or does it go all the way to the top? Uh. we'll consider not blowing the whistle. on this conspiracy if you did an episode. on bicycles or the history of mountain. biking. Those are my demands, and that.

is from [music] Dan. Yes, Dan, we work for Jerry. Jerry's. actually an acronym like SPECTRE, but. we're not at liberty to say what it. stands for. [music]. I love it. Uh thanks a lot, Dan. You got us figured. out. Um, we're going to have some goons. come to your house and [music] it's not. going to be pleasant for you. Maybe. that'll teach you not to email and shoot. off your big mouth from now on. If you want to be like Dan. >> [music]. >> and have things happen to you, you can. send us an email, too. Send it off to. stuffpodcast@iheartradio.com.

Stuff You Should Know is a production of. iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from. iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen. to your favorite shows. [music].