The Highway of Tears (And Maybe Hope) | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW

Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a. production of iHeart. [Music]. Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and there's Chuck and Jerry's. here, too. And this is Stuff You Should. Know, the Man, this is a bummer edition. Yeah. The the Zero Laughs edition. Uh. because we're talking about the Highway. of Tears. Mhm. And uh there's no other.

way around it. This is just a. devastating topic. Yeah. And we should tell people, I mean, The Highway of Tears is fairly famous. It's um kind of been in the in the news. and in pop culture, I guess, for a. while. Um I guess at least since the. '9s, but really in the early 2000s, I. think, is when it picked up. Regardless, it is a stretch of desolate highway that. runs from uh in British Columbia up in. Canada from the um the port city of.

Prince Roupert uh all the way into the. interior uh to Prince George and it's I. think 720 km almost 450 miles and it's. known as Highway 16 officially. But the. stretches of this highway are so. desolate, so remote, and so sparssely. populated that it is become a haven for. murderers who pick people up, mostly. women, mostly indigenous women, on this.

road and either um make them disappear. forever or murder them. And it's it's. endemic in this area. So much so that. it's caught national attention. It just. how poorly this group of women are being. treated and uh and their families as. well. Yeah. It's uh you know, as you'll. see, it's um and you know, there are. many reasons for this, but it's a a. heavily hitchhiked road and uh that can. be very dangerous. Um and so a lot of.

times these are are hitchhikers, people. just trying to get from one place to. another. Uh and like you said, they are. uh you know, either sexually assaulted. or murdered or both. Uh and this these. are the people that you know like they. found bodies. There are you know dozens. and dozens more than these dozens uh who. have survived attacks and rapes along. that stretch of highway. So um you know. it's no secret why it's called the. Highway of Tears. Uh big thanks to Livia. for enduring uh this topic and helping.

us out with it. And big thanks to Al. Jazer where she got a lot of um. information from a six-part series they. did in 2021. Yeah, there's a lot of good. sources. The CBC, the Vancouver Sun's a. good one. Um there there's been a decent. amount of coverage, but it's it's not. the kind of coverage you would get when. say like um like a a Caucasian girl goes. missing, which we'll talk about. It's. the kind of coverage about how this.

group of people have just been totally. um basically left on their own to deal. with something like this that they have. they don't have the resources to deal. with this and it's just such a terrible. story. The story is so much larger than. this collection of murders. Um but at. the core that's what it comes down to. just women who were treated like. disposable beings. Yeah. And the whole. thing starts um at the very at the very. earliest as far as anyone knows. The.

first murder that's become part of what. you would call the cannon of the Highway. of Tears murders and and abductions um. started in. 1969. Uh a woman named Levvenia Gloria. Moody uh was murdered on Highway 16 and. it went um kind of went along like that. for a while. there was but but no one. had kind of put together this whole. group of people and called it the. highway of tears and they wouldn't for. years to come. But at the time there was.

enough going on that they had coined. this term the highway murders. And by. 1981, enough um women and girls had been. murdered or gone missing along Highway. 16 that a group of Royal. Canadian-mounted police detectives from. all over British Columbia and I think. Alberta got together and decided to kind. of compare notes and see if if if they. could solve some of these unsolved. cases. Yes, absolutely. um while this. was going on uh you know when when the.

cops were sort of slowly uh coming. around to the idea that there was a. specific problem along the stretch um. the families were getting involved the. families of the missing the families of. uh those who were found dead and you. know they organized their own efforts. Um one case that really kind of brought. everything to even more of a head was. the case of Ramona Wilson. Uh this was. in June of. 1994. Uh she was 16 years old and she.

went to go meet up with a friend uh to. go to some uh you know end of the year. school graduation parties. Uh she never. got there and her mom Matilda was like. the cops don't really seem to care much. that this happened. And so the locals. got together and they started. organizing. They started doing you know. going on search parties and and looking. out for her. Um they ultimately uh you. know very sadly discovered her body. about 10 months later at an airport. Um.

her clothes were found near her um with. some rope and some cabling. And so her. her mom and her older sister Brenda and. you know other members of her family in. the community got together and said all. right the least we can do is try and. raise some awareness since no one seems. to be paying attention. Uh so they got a. memorial walk together in June of 95 uh. which became an annual thing. Yeah. There was another woman who really um. deserves a lot of credit for bringing.

national attention to this. She's a a. wet soaden um nationwoman. Um and in. 1998 there was a vigil uh where she. coined the term highway of tears which I. I can't I don't think you can really. calculate how much that helped this. case. that was like, "Hey media, here's. a nice little tidy package for you to. report on. It's even got a catchy name.". Um, despite, you know, the actual. obvious emotion behind calling at the. Highway of Tears, I think it really. helped quite a bit. And Florence Nazil.

also um is credited with starting a walk. that covered the entire again 450 mile. stretch Yeah. of Highway of of the. Highway of Tears for the first time. That walk's been. made scores of times by now over the. years by family members and community. members and uh members of other nations. who've gotten involved to try to again. help ask for resources, ask to get the. police involved more because that's. another recurring theme throughout this.

Chuck is that the police have shown over. and over again opportunity after. opportunity to just not really seem to. care. Yeah, absolutely. Um, she had. already been working, you know, to raise. awareness when, uh, very tragically it. hit uh, hit home for her in a more. personal way when one of her family. members, a woman named uh, Tamara. Chipman went missing in. 2005. And, you know, all this is going. on through the, you know, I think it was.

1981 when the cops finally started sort. of getting together and comparing notes. And that was after at least 12 years. since the first known murder. Uh, and it. took all the way into the 2000s. um for things to really take a turn. And. that was uh when uh very tragically a. woman named Nicole uh Hoer um was. killed. She was 25 years old and she was. white. Uh she disappeared in. 2002. And this is what really brought.

the national attention. Uh you've heard. um a journalist named Gwen Eiffel in uh. the United States coined the term. missing white woman syndrome uh which is. the idea that it takes uh a a white. person to be um you know the victim of a. crime for anyone to kind of sit up and. take notice. And members of uh. indigenous communities or marginalized. communities are often overlooked and. underfunded and underresourced and you. know the cases are kind of swept under. the rug. And that's exactly what was. going on in Canada for many, many years.

and still is to a certain degree. Yeah. And again, the Royal Canadian Mounted. Police have been called the task time. and time and time again um for for not. taking this stuff seriously enough, not. devoting the enough resources to it. Um. but also the media is largely. responsible too. Not not just in this. case, but in any case of a missing or. murdered uh woman who's not white in the. United States or Canada, they get much. less coverage. And the intensity of the. coverage is much less too compared to to. white women. And that's not just.

anecdotal. Um I was reading at least one. um study on it from. 2006 I think in the journal of law and. criminology and they were like yes we we. analyze this stuff and it's absolutely. true. Um, so there's like a but there's. a bitter gratitude involved because the. death of Nicole Hoer, um, she like it. did bring a lot of attention to this. Yeah. And and you just can't you can't. deny that. And so that's good, but at.

the same time it's just like, man, why. does it take you? We've been having to. to we've been trying to deal with this. for decades and now this one white girl. is becomes part of the the the crowd of. of murdered girls. And like now it now. people care. It's got to be really tough. to take. And I know I called her a girl. and she was 25 so she was a woman. But. there's like this this whole group is. made up of women and girls. Yeah. I know. it's not interchangeable, but it's. important to say like some of these I.

mean what the youngest victim was 12. Monica Jax um I think died in in the. late 70s maybe 1978. Like there are. plenty of girls who were picked up and. murdered. There are also plenty of women. too. But. um and not all of them were indigenous. A lot of them were white. But the cops. as they started to get together um came. up with some criteria that they applied. to these cases that kind of um narrowed. the the the search um but also brought.

on new cases that they hadn't they. hadn't considered before as we'll see. Yeah. So, in uh 2005, this is just a few. years after uh Nicole Hoer brought more. attention to the issue, um the the RCMP, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, will. probably call them that RCMP. Maybe. Mounties. Do they still go by that? I. think so. Whether they like it or not, everybody calls them Mounties. Yeah. Um. they launched uh what was called the.

Unsolved Homicide uh unit launched. something called Project E. Pana. Uh the. letter E. Um that was just the the. division of the RCMP and Pana is named. after an Inuit goddess who cares for. souls in the afterworld and they their. you know their official designation was. hey we think we have a serial killer. maybe more than one um out there on this. Highway of Tears. Um it's a pretty like. you said a pretty uh great place to get.

away with a crime like that because it's. so desolate. Uh up until recently there. were long long long long stretches where. you had no cell phone service even um so. you couldn't you know call anyone if you. were in trouble um not very many people. around and plenty of animals around to. take care of uh bodies uh and the. remains. though. Um they found some. commonalities in uh three teenage girls. Uh Ramona Wilson, who I mentioned, a. woman named um Roxan Thie uh 15 years.

old from Prince George. Uh this is a. very sad case. She was in the in the. foster system uh and the juvenile. incarceration system. And the uh she. eventually had to turn to uh survival. sex, which is uh a term for um for women. who uh are forced to resort to sex work. to uh feed and clothe themselves. Uh and. it's usually means like instead of. getting money, they get um food and. clothing and and you know items to live.

and survive. Uh, in 1994, she told a. friend she was going to meet one of her. clients. She disappeared and her body. was discovered off Highway 16. And then. finally, Alicia Germaine uh was 15 years. old. Um, last seen in 1994 at a. Christmas dinner and she was discovered. close to Highway 16. So, uh, that's when. they came up with their their criteria. to see if they could sort of narrow this. down. Right. Yeah. Uh and just one thing. um Roxan and Leah were uh or Alicia who.

also went by Leah. They were friends and. also colleagues. They um both were sex. workers who were engaged in survival. sex. Um Ramona who was not engaged in. anything like that. She I think she. worked at a restaurant or something. But. Ramona, Roxanne, and and Leah all were. murdered in the same area between one uh. Ramona was June, Roxan July, uh Leah in. December of. 1994, I think. In all their cases, like.

in in this area, everybody's like, there's something going on. The cops are. like, just give us 11 more years and and. we'll we'll come together and come up. with this new EPAN project. And right. when they did, those three just stuck. out immediately. It's like there's some. real commonalities here and they need to. be investigated. But like you were. saying, those three criteria that they. came up with from this e- pana project, uh you had to be female, you had to last. be seen dead or alive uh within a mile.

of Highway 16, and then you also had to. be involved in high-risk activities uh. like sex work, but also hitchhiking. And. we should say here too, like for those. of us who who grew up in towns with bus. service and cabs and you could walk. places and get to where you're going. easily or ride your bike, like. hitchhiking almost seems like frivolous. Hitchhiking is a way to live and survive. and get to work in this area. Uh it has. been for decades. So it's not like I.

think you can view hitchhiking as like, man, why did you hitchhike? In a lot of. cases, the women and girls who were. picked up hitchhiking were trying to get. to where they were going. Like they they. weren't like just hitting the road. Like. they that was just part of daily life. for them, unfortunately. Yeah. So once. they narrowed down this criteria, uh. they found more um cases that sort of uh. fit that and were were lumped into the. the Highway of Tears murders. Um Alberta. Williams uh was 24 and she was.

celebrating at a pub uh at the end of. summer after working there. seasonally. with her sister. This was 1989. Uh her. body was found about a month after her. disappearance. Um Delphine Nikall was 16. years old, disappeared in 1990 while. hitchhiking. Uh Lana Derek, a. 19-year-old college student, um. disappeared in October of 95. Uh we. mentioned Tamara Chipman, that was uh. the relative of Florence and Ezil. He. was 22 and the mother of a 2-year-old.

boy um disappeared while hitchhiking in. 2005. And then 14-year-old uh Aliyah. Serak Augur um went missing from Prince. George in. 2006. And she was found uh deceased in a. ditch uh right beside the highway, Highway 16. And I and Aella, I'm pretty. sure that's how you say her name. She. was the last one to be officially added. like as far as the Royal Canadian. Mounted Police are concerned. Um she's. the last Highway of Tears victim.

Although as we'll see there have been. plenty more who would qualify for sure. The problem is Epana is very much. underfunded and and not basically not. really operational right now. So they're. not adding people for that reason. But. when they looked into this a little. more, they basically went back to their. credit and found that there was about. 300 boxes of information and paperwork. on all these cases. And so they're like, "We can't get anywhere until we have all. this stuff logged in some sort of.

database." So they created the database. and they logged it and it took them like. a year. But after they finally got all. that stuff in, the some of those older. cases, the ones between 1969 and 1981, they started um bubbling up toward the. top and were eventually included. Um. starting with that first one with Gloria. Moody, also including Monica Jack. And. then there was also Micheline Par, Gayen. Weiss, Pamela Darlington, Colleen. McMillan, and Monica Ingis, and then.

Moren Mosy. And again, all of them were. killed between 1969 and 81, all along. Highway 16. And a lot of them were. hitchhiking as well. Yeah. And, you. know, um if if you look into these cases and. and people, you know, the volunteers. that are uh working with some of these. uh you know, a lot of them are run by, you know, families of victims. They uh. will say that the it's probably more. like, you know, 50 people. Um, advocates. say that, you know, the total is is way.

higher than they're saying it is. Um, you know, kind of for all the reasons. that we've mentioned so far. And that. seems like a good time to take our first. break. And we'll be right back. [Music].

Uh all right. So when we left off we. were saying that the the you know total. number is could be as high as 50. Um if. you look at all these cases and not a. lot of them have been solved. Uh there. are a few exceptions here and there um. that definitely showed that there were. serial killers, killer or killers uh. operating. Um there was one big one in. 2012. uh with um Colleen McMillan. She was.

murdered hitchhiking. Uh she was 16. years old. This was 1974. Uh but they. had, you know, in some of the evidence. um boxes had her blouse still. And with. the improvement in DNA matching in. databases and stuff like that, they were. able to find a match on Interpol. Uh it. was an American named Bobby Jack Fowler. who had died in prison in 2006 where he. was serving time for uh attempted. kidnapping and attempted murder on. another woman in 1995. And they found.

that he had been working as a roofer in. Canada uh when this murder and others. took place. And um you know basically. we're like it was probably two other. women as well on the list uh Pamela. Darlington and Gail uh Weiss and they. were both murdered in 1973 but he died. in prison before they could officially. pin that on him. Yes. And from what I've. read about him, Bobby Jack Fowler is the. kind of scumbag that you wish you could. go dig up and reanimate so you can.

punish him some more. Um yeah, he was. terrible. And when the Canadian cops. were like, "Hey, you guys had uh. somebody incarcerated in your prisons to. the officials in Oregon uh who killed at. least one girl here, but probably three. total. You should probably look around. at your own files." They started finding. uh I think they've said up to maybe 20. murders that they've pinned on Bobby. Jack Fowler. nothing they can prove, but. it's just likely that he committed them.

and he'll obviously never be convicted. or tried for him because he's dead. But. it just it it goes to show you like. there are human beings out there who. will just kidnap, rape, and murder and. just do it over and over again. And they. the easiest thing to do in the world is. if you're going to do that kind of thing. is take advantage of a very vulnerable. population in a very sparsely populated. area which makes Highway 16 just like. the perfect spot. Yeah. There's another.

guy, in fact, he's the only living. person convicted of one of these murders. from someone on the e panel list. His. name is Gary Taylor Handlin. uh he you know going back to the 1960s. had committed multiple rapes uh been in. jail multiple times for these rapes. Um. one was a hitchhiker in 1978 and uh he. became a suspect and the the youngest. victim 12-year-old Monica Jack that you. had mentioned earlier. Mhm. Uh, and. also, uh, Katherine Mary Herbert, uh, 11.

years old, uh, she just was not one of. the e- panic cases, but they caught him, uh, by setting up a sting operation in. which they kind of created this this. fake uh, crime enterprise where he was. answering to a undercover um, cop. playing a crime boss who got him to. confess that he abducted and strangled. Monica Jack. Uh, and this is when he. also confessed to killing uh, Katherine. Mary Herbert. Uh but that confession was. ruled inadmissible, but he was convicted. of Jack's murder in 2019. Yeah, he I.

hadn't heard of this, but that's. apparently a fairly typical sting. operation. They call him a Mr. Big. operation where you just in introduced a. successively higher up criminals in some. organization, but they're all cops. And. um the f the judge was like, "No, the. the admission to um or confession to. Katherine Mary Herbert's murder, inadmissible, but he thought that he was. basically convincing this crime boss to. get him out of the out of being tried or.

convicted for Monica Jack's murder." So. they're like, "That's totally. admissible. He completely volunteered. that." But yeah, I mean, he he went down. for it. But like you said, he's the only. living person who's ever been convicted. for one of these dozens of murders. Yeah. So, you know, we mentioned 2006 uh. is when they stopped officially tagging. names onto the official e panelist. Uh. there have still been plenty of murders. and sexual assaults along that stretch. of highway since then. Mhm. Um Cody.

Lebikov, I believe is how you pronounce. that. It sounds right. uh killed three women and a 15-year-old. girl between 2009 and 2010. So that was. after the official list. Uh two of those. victims were indigenous and the cops. caught him when they just pulled him. over for a speeding violation and found. blood on him and they found the body of. 15year-old Lauren Don Leslie uh and then. you know realized that they could link. him to uh and I believe he was convicted. too of killings of uh three other women.

Jill Stacy, uh, Stachenko, Cynthia. Francis Moss, and Natasha Lin. Montgomery. Yeah. Um, and so all three. of them were from Prince George, which. is the eastern most town considered part. of the Highway of Tears. Um, and Cody. was 19 when he killed the first of them, Jill Stacy Stachenko. Um, he's not the. youngest serial killer in Canadian. history, but he too, um, like the other. guys, was a scumbag and still is. Uh he.

was sentenced to no less than 25 years, four times, but it appears that his. sentences are concurrent. So he's. serving 25 years for four murders. Uh. and the judge reminded him that he could. apply for parole as early as 15 years. in. So that's four years from now that. this guy might be able to get out after. being convicted of murdering four three. women and a girl. I don't like that. Yeah. So you mentioned Florence Nazil. earlier having organized her own walk.

Um this was in. 2006. Um they called it the Highway of. Tears Awareness Walk and they walked 2. weeks. Uh they walked through. snowstorms, they walked through some you. know terrible weather and conditions and. eventually ended um at the Highway of. Tears Symposium in Prince George. Uh and. again this wasn't something organized by. the cops or anything. It was organized. by indigenous groups and victims. families themselves. But uh they did. have 500 delegates from the Mounties. there as well as some um representative.

from you know the Canadian government. there. And it was basically a symposium. where they had recommendations on what. they could do um you know not only to. help solve these crimes to but to. prevent more of this from happening. And. we'll get to you know what's happened. since then because they have done some. things that seem like they should. probably help. Mhm. Uh but also, you. know, how to support these families, how. to support these communities a little. better because it was, you know, not. wellunded and any kind of work was very. sparse up until that point. Yeah. So,

Brenda Wilson, Ramona Wilson's uh. sister, um she works for Caria Sakani. Family Services, and she's the one um. employee of the Highway of Tears. Initiative, and she frequently has to. work for free because there they just. are like, "We're we're out of money. again. wait till next quarter uh for the. check to come in. Um and obviously she's. extremely dedicated, but that's a a kind. of a par for the course thing. Like the. just the funding is just not there. And. if you follow like government funding,

that usually goes to stuff that people. care about or like a lot of people care. about. So if you don't get funding, it's. a kind of a big slap in the face in. addition to, you know, really tying your. hands from doing the work you're trying. to do. Yeah. And you know, there's a lot. of distrust uh for the uh for the. Mounties there and for good reasons in a. lot of cases. We'll see. There's a woman. named Glattis uh Ratic who was an aunt. of Tamara Chipman, one of the victims, and she uh she leads a cause called.

Tears for Justice, the number four. um she has a lot of distrust of the. police because as a teenager she ran. away uh and was hitchhiking and was. picked up two different times by RCMP. officers who raped her. Um. so I mean as far as the RCMP is. concerned, they're like, "We're going to. investigate this stuff and we're going. to treat uh anyone within our ranks who. does something like this just like we. would any common criminal." Um, but the. fact that that stuff happens, uh, period.

and that, uh, there like a human, uh, there's a human rights watch report that. came out in 2012 that documented police. abuse against indigenous women and. girls, right? Um, and that's like. literal abuse and sexual assault that. cops are are taking part in um, at the. worst. Uh, then all the way down to um, just being hostile or uninterested in. what happened to these crime victims and. families. Yeah. Um because as the. Canadian government has said many times.

and is um recognized and apologized for. Canada's history of how they've treated. their indigenous populations like. putting them in residential schools. Apparently in the 60s there was a second. wave of that kind of thing but rather. than residential schools they took kids. from their family homes and put them in. with foster families. Um and so there. was a lot of breakup of the culture and. and families in the indigenous tribes in. the area. Um and as a result like. poverty began, violence really set in.

Um deaths of despair like suicide and. alcoholism and drug overdoses. Um and. just an inability to take care of. themselves. And then you couple that. reality with somebody coming to the. police and saying, "My daughter hasn't. come home since Friday." And they're. like, "Friday? Huh? What was she doing. last?" "Well, she went to a party." Then. she's probably just on a week-l long. bender. Just give her a few days. From. all the stories I've read, I would say. 90% of the families said that that was.

the first response they got from police. Yeah. Uh and not only that, but they've. been shown to um uh get rid of. information. So in 2015, Elizabeth. Denham, uh she is the commissioner for. the information and privacy um uh for. British Columbia. She um put out a. report that said uh officials removed uh. like 150 emails about the Highway of. Tears from their database uh which was a. violation of the Freedom and Information.

and Protection of Privacy Act, right? Uh which was obviously didn't in. foster any further trust with the Royal. Canadian Mounted Police. Um, and I guess. in response in 2018, the commissioner of. the Mounties, Brenda Lucky, um, actually. issued like a formal heartfelt apology. for um, the the problems that the. families have been facing and the lack. of support they've been getting from the. Royal Canadian Mounted Police. Um, which. has been few and far between, but I. think when it does when it something.

like that does happen, it goes a long. way. And I think the families are kind. of like, okay, let's let's get back to. work with the Mounties again. Yeah. So. what this represents though is a a. larger population seen not only in. Canada but the United States and all. over the world where minority. communities are um although they. represent you know sometimes a small. part of the population they make up a. much larger part of people in prison uh. of people who were killed by police uh. and that's certainly the case in in.

Canada. Um, I think, uh, you know, part. of the reason that EPANA has gotten. mixed, not only results, but mixed. reviews over the year for their work is. because they've just been, you know, they came out with a bang and then. they've sort of just been slowly waning. over the years. I think they went from. 60 assigned officers down to six by. 2022. Yeah. Uh, and there's a guy, a. staff sergeant named Wayne Clary who um. said, you know, we we probably aren't. going to be able to make any more.

arrests in these cases. Um, that most of. them are stranger on stranger violence. So, there's basically no motive other. than to um sexually assault and kill. It's really hard to track somebody down, especially when you don't have many. leads. So, we're probably going to have. to get used to the fact that these. murders are going to go unsolved. Um, but from what I was reading, there's a. lot of families who are like, "This. wasn't a stranger. We know the guy who. did it. He lives over there and they're.

not getting listened to." Um, and then. also there was a a report from 2016, an. analysis of 32 cases. Um, did you see. this part about where um the police had. said um that there was no foul play in. these murders uh of indigenous women and. this analysis is like that's kind of a. weird thing to say because some of them. were found nude. Some of them had. unexplained injuries. Uh in some cases. the coroner contradicted the idea that.

there was no foul play and yet they have. been logged as no foul play and. therefore they're not being investigated. because they're not considered murders. Yeah. And you know, along the lines of. what I was talking about before, uh this. is not just a Canada problem. There's an. official name uh for something like. this, uh missing and murdered indigenous. women and girls, MMI, WG. Um and that. has happened, you know, all over North. America and other places in the world. Uh there's some estimates that uh say. indigenous women and girls are 12 times.

more likely than the general population. to go missing or to be murdered. uh in. Canada and 10 times more likely in the. US and there have been people trying to. bring attention to this as well. Uh. there's an artist named Jamie Black who. made these uh really powerful. installations uh that is sometimes the. most powerful ones are very simple and. that's the case here where uh it would. hang empty red dresses in public places. and it really caught on and since 2010.

um Canada has recognized May 5th as red. dress day. Yeah. Um, let's take our. second break and we'll come back. How. about that? All right. [Music].

Okay, Chuck. So, um you uh said the. magic word missing and murdered. indigenous women and girls. It's a. thing. Um and Canada launched a a. inquiry into uh that group and um some. people in the Highway of Tears community. gave testimony for it. They released a. report in 2019 and they said, "Look, let's just cut to the chase here. Um, it's not like Native American tribes uh.

were living in poverty and destitution. and engaged in sex work and alcoholism. and drug addiction before we. Euroanadians came along and just. completely disrupted their culture. So. this is actually this this problem of. missing and murdered indigenous women. and girls. It's it's part of a larger. bigger picture, a history of um being. exploited and left vulnerable and not.

protected by the people who were. supposed to protect them. This is not. new. Yeah. And I mean this is horrific to to. look at, but one of the um one of the. problems is they found that whenever. they have a very large group of only men. around in a desolate area for one reason. or another, um sexual assaults and. murders happen and that is the case in. these uh isolated parts of Canada where.

the fossil fuel industry is. So, um, what'll happen is they'll they'll, you. know, go to work on a pipeline or. something and they have what's called a. man camp, um, with like a thousand dudes. on site working out in the middle of. nowhere together. And historically. speaking, not just here, but kind of. everywhere this has happened. Uh, dating. back to the 1800s, uh, when this. happens, um, there are going to be, uh, sexual assaults and murdered and. disappeared women and girls nearby.

Yeah, there's reports that show like a. an actual like correlation like a man. camp shows up, sexual assaults of. indigenous women goes up in the area. too. And unfortunately, this part of. northern British Columbia that the. Highway of Tears runs through, that's. like the central area for Canada's. resource extraction. So, there are a lot. of man camps there and there's plenty. more coming. Um, so that in and of. itself is a problem. Um, and it's not. just in Canada. Apparently, um, North. Dakota, uh, underwent an oil boom back.

in the 2000 as, uh, as more and more people were brought. in as laborers, sexual assault of. indigenous women there went up, too, because they're also pretty vulnerable. here in the United States as well. Yeah. I mean, this happens everywhere all over. the world that that uh is the case. Um, it's not just North America. Um, they've. taken some steps. I mentioned earlier. some of the uh things that they're doing. that uh seem like they would help out. Uh one is uh we got to stop people from.

hitchhiking or at least uh reduce the. rate of hitchhikers. Um they don't have. any other way to get around sometimes. like you mentioned. So uh in 2017, British Columbia uh transit um moved. forward on uh something that came out of. that 2006 summit. So, well, 11 years. later, um that launched three new bus. routes along Highway 16. Um but that. didn't work for very long because that. worked in conjunction with Greyhound and.

just 2 years after that and like 5,000. people were now using the service, uh. Greyhound cut back on the routes there. because they weren't turning a profit. and so all of a sudden, uh hitchhiking. was back on the map again. Yeah. Um. Yeah. And just a lot of people just. don't have cars. And if you do have a. car, it's probably being used by. somebody else. I remember uh what was. the movie Smoke Signals? I think they. talk about the res car where it's just. like a car everybody just kind of shares. and it just gets handed from person to.

person when you need it. Um so yeah, hitchhiking is going to be a lot more. convenient in some cases. Cell phone, you said also cell phone service is a. big deal too, right? Yeah, I mean just. not being able to call 911 very simply. is a problem. So, uh, in 2021, I mean, just 4 years ago, uh, it's astounding. that it took this long. Um, the. provincial and federal governments, um, said, "All right, we'll chip in 4.5. million bucks out of what will.

eventually cost 11.5 million, uh, total, um, to get, uh, Rogers Communications to. put to get coverage all along this. highway with cell phone towers." And I. think by the end of last year, the good. news is uh nine of those 11 towers were. up and hopefully soon the entire 450ish. mile stretch uh you'll at least be able. to call the cops. Yeah. And that was a. big one of the uh 231 calls for justice. that came out of that symposium in 2015.

Um and for I mean that's lightning fast. if if like for this kind of stuff that. it happened that that fast. So, just two. more to go everybody. Let's get it done. in 2025. Yeah, absolutely. Um there's also like a. little bit of a certainly I wouldn't. call it a tussle or anything, but. there's a um a a growing kind of. disagreement on how to approach this. Um. up to uh basically I guess. 2023, the approach was exclusively this.

is a horrific situation. This is tragic. This is super sad and it doesn't need to. be portrayed any other way. That's just. what it is. And the uh Carrier Sakani um. center, remember they uh run the Highway. of Tears initiative. They're like, "What. if we just kind of alter this a little. bit? What if we make this more of a. hopeful thing?" Um for a very long time, there's some famous billboards along the. Highway of Tears. It had pictures of. three of the victims, Ramona, Deline,

and Cecilia, who isn't included in the. canonical um victims, but she was. Deline's cousin. They went missing. within six months of each other. Um, and. I think Cecilia's never been found. again. Their pictures were on this. billboard and on the billboard it said, "Girls, don't hitchhike on the Highway. of Tears. Kill her on the loose." Well, um, that was helpful for years and years. and years, but Carrier Sakcon is like, you know, there's a way that some people.

who don't understand our way of. hitchhiking, why we do it, could. possibly see that as like there's some. sort of victim blaming in there. So, what if we just kind of remove that and. make this whole a more hopeful message? And they unveiled, I think, four. billboards that kind of change things a. little bit, right? Uh, yeah. They say we. are hope, we are strength, keep Highway. 16 safe. Uh, and you know, they're. obviously critics of that messaging. Uh, because they're saying, "We don't want. to say that there's hope because right.

now with the way things are going with. the Mounties and the investigations, like there is no hope. So why say that. if it's not hopeful, right?" Yeah. Um, and I think the billboards coexist and. and the critics of that were like, "Okay, these billboards can coexist. That's a great billboard. We're fine.". But it was when they proposed, I think, um, yeah, Carrier Sakani proposed, "Hey, let's um, let's rename the Highway of. Tears, officially the Highway of Hope,

when activists and and um, supporters. like Glattis Ratic were like, no, we are. definitely not there yet. A lot of these. cases are not solved. there there's not. much traction still like that's. ridiculous and we're not going to do. that but hopefully someday it will it. will reach that status you know. Yeah. So until then that's the highway of. tears. Uh here at stuff you should know. we say rest and peace to all the victims. and we hope peace can come to all their.

families uh who have to live with this. and the ongoing frustration of not. getting the help they need. Uh and since. I said all that, it's time for listener. mail. Uh, I'm going to call this mushroom. fruit. Uh, and this is from Mike. Uh, hey guys, I'm a mushroom farmer from St. Louis and thought I needed to write in. and give Josh some bad news listening to. the catacombs episode and the mushroom. uh, guys is the fruit of its organism. I. know. Uh, the plant that it is grown. from is called uh, mycelium there.

Furthermore, not all fungi produce fruit. aka mushrooms. Uh if you or your family. use mushrooms in supplement form like. mushroom uh powder or something like. that, be sure to look for made with. fruing bodies only on the packaging or. something of that nature. A lot of. manufacturers are using. myiliated grain without any mushrooms to. make these products. That's like going. to the grocery store for apples and. leaving with most of an apple tree. Uh. there's a lot more to that discussion,

but at the moment and with the current. data, uh I say that if it advertises. mushrooms, then it needs to have. mushrooms. Uh include uh I've included. some pics of the farm and uh my fur. babies. If you come to uh St. Louis, please come to the farm for a tour. And. there are some great pictures of these. beautiful fruing mushrooms. uh one. terribly lazy uh looks like golden. long-haired golden retriever type uh. laying with a candy cane lovey and a.

awful terrible tabby cat laying on a box. as cats do. Very nice. That was a very. mean email. Who is that? Mike. That's. Mike. But I get your point, Mike, and I. appreciate that because I've been. studiously avoiding any mushroom. supplement that has the word fruing on. it. So maybe I should just bite the. bullet, you know? I could put a piece of. like electrical tape over that part and. just take the supplements as needed. Yeah, bite the mushroom. If you if you. want to be like Mike and get in touch.

with us and turn my stomach, you can do. that. Send us an email to stuffodcast@. iheartradio.com. Stuff you should know. is a production of iheartradio. For more. podcasts, iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart. Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever. you listen to your favorite shows. [Music].