The Harrowing Story of the North Hollywood Shootout | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW

[Music]. welcome to stuff you should know a. production of iHeart. Radio hey and welcome to the podcast I'm. Josh and there's Chuck and there's Jerry. and we're just. a well Jerry's not here actually now. that I mentioned it that was just of. habit wasn't it the ghost of Jerry yeah. she's not she's still with us though. she's driving the getaway car yeah she's. not that kind of ghost no no no no no no.

she's the kind of ghost that drives a. getaway car right so uh I mentioned that. though Chuck because it's appropo of the. heist episode we're about to talk about. which I guess this would qualify as a. heist. right oh I mean heck yeah well usually. to me heists are a little more intricate. most of the time. successful um this is a little more. brute. Firepower than than any other Heist or.

most other heists so that's why it kind. of disqualifies it in my opinion oh okay. that's my essay on heists I don't even. know what the definition of heist is I. just gave it to you it's apparently a. robbery so yeah sure I mean of course. it's a robbery but um and this qualifies. as a robbery it's just it's its own. unique thing for sure oh man big time. and you know as you're reading this it's. so theatrical it's so um just totally. off the chain nuts that this actually.

happened in real life it's you have to. remind yourself from time to time like. these are like really really bad guys. and what they were doing was beyond. reprehensible it's just we're so trained. to get sucked into that kind of like. action in the movies that when it. happens in real life you have to like. kind of turn off that entertainment part. of it and bring yourself back to reality. sometimes at least I did I had trouble. doing it during research a few times no. for sure uh and we're talking about the. uh the nor North Hollywood shootout is.

what it's uh known a lot uh as the. Battle of North Hollywood sometimes M uh. and this is on February 28th in 1997. when two dudes armed to the hilt uh with. assault rifles like anything you can. think of and this is as we'll see a time. when uh and this is kind of one of the. big sort of um I guess interesting and. scary parts about this this is when cops. like people could be more out.

armed than the police that are trying to. stop them right and that's what happened. the day that they engaged when North. Hollywood became a war zone for a little. while yeah and as a matter of fact this. episode this event led directly to uh. the militarization of police forces as. we see these two guys basically pressed. that issue because yeah the the the Los. Angeles Police Department was. outgunned outarmed. and but definitely not outnumbered they.

they outnumbered the robbers but they. were still getting pinned down and they. were having no luck with anything well I. don't want to give too much away let's. just start at the beginning because. we're talking about two dudes a. 26-year-old this is back in 97 named. Larry Eugene Phillips Jr there was a. 30-year-old who he was friends with. named Emil. matanu and even though Emil was older uh. Larry was the one who called the shots. he was roundly described by family.

members as um manipulative controlling. yeah um and he had ail under his thumb. AAL was described by his family members. later as a a follower so even though he. was a little older he listened to what. Emil told him to do not just in in their. partnership as like criminals but in in. life too I read somewhere that Emil got. married because Larry told him he should. and that he he shouldn't marry an. American Girl soil went to Romania and. got himself a Romanian bribe because he. was Romanian immigrant that that level.

of control is apparently what they were. engaged in yeah totally um previous to. their meeting they met each other uh. they were bodybuilders like not. professionally but just bodybuilding. guys at Gold's Gym and Venice Beach in. 1989 and just prior to this is when uh. Phillips started his life of crime um. started kind of small I guess like most. criminals uh just a heist of. $400 from a years in Southern California.

right and then graduated to uh burglary. real estate fraud stuff like that. apparently was um sort of enamored of. like Scarface and uh ultimately the. movie Heat so if this shootout sounds. familiar it sounds a lot like the one. from heat it's because they seem to have. been inspired by that movie for sure uh. but but love not only just the the. gangsters and movies but also the white. collar criminals he would apparently. like park in front of rich people's.

houses and just sort of fantasize about. that life and wanted money like he you. know in the end this whole thing was. about uh money and like the thrill of it. all largely because of. Phillips right for sure and Phillips was. he kind of had the odd stacked against. him in succeeding in in a normal nin. to-5 life because of the family he was. born into his father um Larry Eugene. Phillips senor who would later speak.

about his son in glowing terms after. this um he was actually an escape from a. prison in Colorado when Larry Jr was. born so Larry Jr was born into an alias. his last name was false warful that's. how he was born and on his sixth. birthday apparently the FBI came in with. guns drawn to capture his dad and that. helped set up what was um referred to as. basically a lifelong hatred.

of the police and by extension the the. kind of normal society the police were. charged with. defending yeah uh as for Murano he was a. Romanian immigrant uh came into the. country when he was about 11 in. 1977 was naturalized in 88 and his mom. um we'll talk about her a little bit her. name was Valerie uh nicolescu I think. that's that definitely gets it across. sure nicolescu she says that he was.

bullied when he was a kid he became a. computer and Video Game Nerd he ended up. going to DeVry Institute of Technology. when he was 19 and uh or I'm sorry he. got his degree when he was 19 uh but his. neighbors also said things like this guy. was bad news he threatened one of the. neighbors with a chainsaw uh because. their dog came on his property and uh. their family also had another sort of. disturbing secret right yeah they they. they had a family business uh Emil and.

his mom Valerie had a like a basically a. residential care center out of their. home for people with disabilities. usually cognitive uh disabilities or um. mental health issues and they they were. set up as a legitimate uh care um. Institute no that's not the word I guess. a care home yeah um the problem is is. they were not a good care home by pretty. much any standard um they were caught.

multiple times doing or they were. accused multiple times of mistreating. the people um one of their residents was. left in the hospital just kind of. abandoned ditched there um there was. supposedly some allegations that Amil. had been abusive toward at least one um. of the patients there uh and he was um. not allowed to come back into the house. anymore which is a problem because this. is the family house and eventually they. got shut down for fire codes and later.

on we'll see it it even got worse after. the um the the heist happened and all. the news came out when the police and. the the Press started looking into that. family and their family business just. suffice to say like his mom doesn't. appear to have been a very good person. herself from just based on the. allegations of how she treated the. people who were under her care yeah it. was pretty just I mean this is one of. the more disturbing parts of this whole. story actually and it's kind of a side. bar which is after the shootout uh they.

found a they searched her like a. commercial building that she owned in. Pasadena and found a 44-year-old. mentally disabled woman locked in a in a. room with no windows with no food or. water and then later it turns out that. uh she was charged for that initially. which was uh I mean I guess just sort of. like a neglect charge uh she was. sentenced to 10 months but then later in. 2002 I found an article in the LA times.

where because I was like why would she. do this um it was Social Security fraud. she was collecting checks in her name. and her and this other woman later on uh. she you know it was it was basically. welfare and Social Security fraud so she. got pinch for that in 2002 and if you. read kind of some of the Contemporary. articles from 1997 right after the heist. um she's kind of portrayed by the press. as like the things she says about. herself or her background the Press.

won't don't really take on face value. yeah like she's she said that she was a. opera singer from the state Opera in. Romania who defected in. 1977 and they use the words like. claim when somebody's described as. claiming something about their own. personal history that's a signal from. the press that this is probably not a a. trustworthy person yeah absolutely um. she would also say after this whole uh. shootout went down with her her son that. she was like he was depressed uh his.

wife had left him and taken his uh kid. MH and I basically think this was a. suicide mission for him so whether or. not that was true who knows that's what. she claimed right so these are the guys. who um found each other in 1989 at. Gold's Gym and became really good. friends and one of the things in. addition to bodybuilding that they had. in common was a real pronounced love of. guns yeah and not just any guns High.

powerered assault rifles in particular. and apparently um uh Larry Phillips had. a line somewhere on steel cased. ammunition he could get it from Russia. highly illegal but apparently people. weren't paying attention and I saw there. was this British National Geographic. little hourong documentary on this. called Situation critical which reminded. me of that Seinfeld movie prognosis.

negative totally um but they said that. he he managed to import rounds of this. really illegal like incredibly powerful. um steel lined Ammunition by the. thousands of rounds so not only did they. have really high powerered assault. rifles they had immeasurably higher. powerered um shells to put in those. assault rifles which made them extremely. dangerous people yeah absolutely and as.

we'll see and maybe we should take a. break here okay these two guys were. doing a lot of really dangerous criming. before that 97 shootout let's let's take. that break all. [Music]. [Applause]. [Music]. right.

[Music]. all right so before we broke I hinted. around that these guys were criming. around previous to the. 1997 uh shootout where everything ended. right and that is very much true uh in. 1993 they were pulled over in a rental. car in Glendale and cops said all right. well let me take a look in the trunk and.

they went oh you've got two 9mm handguns. uh 245 handguns two kalishnikov six. smoke grenades two homemade bombs three. machine guns two bulletproof vest one. gas mask six holsters wigs ski masks two. police radio scanners a stopwatch and. close to 3,000 rounds of ammo yeah and. they said uh we're just going to the. shooting range man and you know. sometimes we like to wear wigs or ski.

masks sure or or listen to what the cops. are doing or time each other right we're. big fans of the. police obviously um that all is you know. to an outsider obvious BS but uh. shockingly the da said you know we don't. have enough evidence to convict them of. conspiracy to commit robbery uh and they. pled down to a misdemeanor weapons. charge and about 4 months in County each.

it gets even worse than that that was. 1993 okay they were not only let off. with basically a slap on the wrist what. they had in their trunk was described by. other people later on as a a bank. robbery kit that's everything you needed. to rob a bank right there and it was so. painfully obvious that's what that was. that but they still got a stickup note. right no there wasn't anything like that. they hadn't gotten to that point but the. the craziest part of this whole thing. even crazier that they only got four.

months for these. weapons the da and the judge agreed to. give them their weapons back after they. got out of jail so they were rearmed. ostensibly so that they could sell the. weapons to pay for their legal costs but. no one followed up to make sure they did. sell the weapons they just gave them. back their assault rifles and their. handguns and probably their ski masks. everything they needed to go rob banks. and that's exactly what they did with. that stuff and this was Los Angeles yeah.

for goodness sakes I know it's crazy so. uh later on this is after the you know. the final shootout that we're leading up. to but uh later on there was obviously. all kinds of Investigations and stuff. and they learned that these two guys. were in fact uh what were known as the. high incident Bandits uh these two dudes. that robbed uh well it was technically. uh was two incidences but three Banks.

cuz they hit two banks at once uh in '95. they robbed a well not a bank but they. robbed a Brinks truck in front of a Bank. of America right uh in the valley and. they killed a guy they killed the driver. they opened up fire on these dudes. without warning without a put your hands. they just came out of nowhere and just. started firing on them oh yeah which we. you know we'll see as an obvious. precedent uh and then in 1996 uh they. robbed two Bank of Americas uh one of. which was the one that they had. previously robbed the armored car in.

front of and killed that guy and you. know it was the same type of deal they. had these automatic rifles they were you. know screaming that they're going to. kill you they had body armor ski masks. sunglasses they took their time as far. as bank robberies go by being in these. banks for uh 6 minutes and 8 minutes. that's very long which is uh that's a. long time for a bank robbery I try to. get out of there in less than three well. yeah that's you know that's what. everybody does that's our goal uh but. they made off I mean they they these. guys had a lot of money they made off uh.

with uh between 1.3 and 1.7 million. bucks combined from this these two. heists let alone whatever they got from. the Brinks robbery oh yeah absolutely. and they were you know they were well. known they were the high incident. Bandits the FBI was you know actively. tracking them and also had a theory that. they're not alone they're part of like a. larger crime ring or terrorist string. that's funding them yeah and not like. that's not only funding them with arms. but the the bankr robes are meant to. fund some sort of like right-wing.

paramilitary group or terrorist. organization or something that was the. point that was the premise they were. going on because these guys were so. incredibly well armed and um just for. just for context too $17 million for two. bank robberies is a eye popping amount. of money yeah it's up there in like the. top probably 50 um bank robberies of in. United States history like those are. really big Halls I saw at the time back.

in 1991 the average bank robbery in the. United States yielded the robbers about. $3,000 robbing a bank the the the takes. were usually so poultry that it wasn't. worth the banks money to invest in other. protections like screens that go up. really quick between the tellers and the. bank robbers it wasn't worth them. installing those in Banks because the. robbers rarely got away with more than a. few thousand so that was a huge huge. huge score for almost $2 million between.

just two bank robberies for these guys. yeah and I don't think murder usually. occurs at those bank robberies too. supposedly I can't remember the number I. think it was like 16 people died in bank. robberies over like I think 85 to 95 or. something like that and 12 of them were. the bank robber it's it was a statistic. somewhat like that so yeah yeah and I. think 85% of bank robbers get caught. it's a really high-risk usually low. reward yeah um crime but if if you do it.

like these guys did armed to the teeth. and the other reason that their yields. were so big they scouted out the banks. and they knew when the bank was going to. get some big delivery of cash usually it. was a Payday or something like that. that's why their uh robberies paid off. so well they had done their homework. ahead of time yeah and that's how they. do it in the movies and apparently these. guys were inspired by movies yeah I. guess every body else in real life. doesn't do it like the movies yeah so.

they were you know they were living kind. of high on the hog for a little while. they had a lot of money uh Phillips. himself he was the one that really sort. of idolized you know being wealthy and. all that stuff he like bought fancy cars. he bought. Rolexes uh I think mat Serano rented a. big house for his family so you know I. think looking at the Timeline one was in. June of '95 one was almost a year later. in '96. so and then this uh final one was in.

February 97 they weren't you know they. weren't doing this it's hard to say they. were being smart about it because they. were so Brazen but it seems like they. were doing this as like all right well. here's our annual salary and then we'll. go out and do it again in about a year. right yeah no they were they were it was. like their new job and their new hobby. and their new life I guess from what I. understand right so um on the day of the. the robbery their third Heist February. 28th 199 7 a Friday and since it's the.

end of the month a Payday uh they had. targeted a Bank of America it wasn't one. they had hit before but for some reason. they hated Bank of America yeah they. really I and I kind of get. why but um being a former Bank of. America account holder. myself but they um they hit one in North. Hollywood it was on Laurel Canyon. Boulevard are you familiar with this. area oh of course okay so you you knew. were you in La at the time no I didn't. didn't oh wow this is kind of right. before that though I didn't move to LA.

till uh 2000 okay yeah and North. Hollywood just for references you know. Hollywood Central Hollywood is kind of. right in the middle of sort of Central. LA and then just over the mountains as. you go into the valley that's where. North Hollywood is right and that's. where Hank the chesan gangster in the. HBO show Barry uh is from that's why. they call him no ho Hank I need to do. Barry. you do it's one of those shows that gets.

insanely off the rails and yet they. still manage to make it work it's really. good I you know I watched a little bit. of it years ago when it first started. and just got distracted and never got. back around to it but I i' love everyone. in that show I yeah I think you should. you should give it another shot all. right I I'll bury up soon it's weird. though it's it's um deceptively gritty. mhm it's a comedy through and through.

and it's just bizarre and all that but. there's if you really kind of get into. like the the the violence the meat of it. it's it's pretty hardcore it's it's a. crazy show it's hard to pin down but. it's worth seeing all right I'll follow. up so um Friday February 28th 1997 Larry. Phillips and Emil. maturano um walk into a Bank of America. and they are covered head to toe in. tactical gear. masks um it turns out Larry Phillips is.

is covered from neck to ankle in body. armor yeah that he help he apparently. sewed it himself and it was really. effective Emil mosanu has a um a trauma. plate basically a a like a bulletproof. plate uh covering his chest and his. vital organs and um they walk in and. apparently the first thing they did was. started firing into the air from their. AK-47s and you would think that that. would capture the attention of the.

police but that's a moot point cuz the. police watch them walk into the bank. from the first moment this started boy I. mean you can do all the planning in the. world as a bank robber but you can never. count or discount bad luck for them good. luck for everyone else sure but. literally there was a police cruiser. that were like sitting there and watched. two guys walk into this Bank armed like. this and I'm sure they were like what.

the and immediately called This is 917. and they immediately called for backup. obviously and I think once they saw and. heard the shots and everything they all. immediately knew that these were the. high incident Bandits yes and for those. fans of Snoop Dogg and Dr Dre and Ice. Cube and NWA you're well aware that what. the police called in was a 211 an armed. robbery in. progress. that's good so um one of the things a.

little detail that kind of emerged later. on apparently Larry uh Phillips and and. ail um were not drug users whatsoever in. any way shape or form but apparently. they had taken Fina barbital just before. the bank robbery to basically calm their. nerves they were the kind of bank. robbers that you see in the movies but. that don't actually exist in real life. these guys existed in real life they. would knock down old ladies and put guns. in their faces. they would tell moms that if they didn't.

shut theirs up they were going to kill. theirs they fired wildly into the air. they fired wildly into the bank they. just shot everything up everywhere um. they were really abusive they were. really tough they were really scary um. and they were also really on point as. far as like knowing where the money is. knowing who would have access to the. money and just making this whole thing. work they had also figured out that they. had about 8 minutes before the average. response time they hadn't noticed the. cops watching them walk in and so they.

had timer stopwatches on during this. whole 8 Minute. robbery yeah which is what they had in. the trunk when the cops pulled them over. four years earlier yeah the stopwatch. yeah uh so yeah I mean they had this. thing planed out but they also didn't. know certain things like uh they asked. the bank manager to uh open up the ATMs. and he's like I I can't open the ATMs. like I literally can't do that so he. tried to shoot them open which did. nothing to get into the ATM but of.

course it you know bullets ricocheted. everywhere and injured the bank. manager uh they also you know would. shoot I think one of them Phillips. wasn't it who literally shot into a safe. uh and like shot up a lot of the money. that they could have gotten ruining that. out of anger they learned that the the. um Brinks truck that was supposed to be. delivering hundreds and hundreds about. 3/4 of a million dollars by their. estimate um was running late or had been. rescheduled to throw off bank robberies.

and out of anger Emil just shot into a. safe and and basically just ruined a. bunch of cash that they could have taken. yeah uh there was also a cell phone on. the scene which is not the most common. thing in 1997 for sure uh but it was LA. and they locked a bunch of the uh there. were about you know 30 bystanders or you. know just people doing Bank business. They Se they separated them out from the. tellers and put them in a vault and shut. the door and one of the uh I believe one.

of the women inside had a cell phone. right and I'm not sure how much it. helped but she was at least able to be. in touch uh with the cops sort of. describing what she was hearing while. all this was going on right this is at a. time before people knew what lol meant. and one of the cops she was texting with. was like lol meaning lots of love but. she didn't take it that way lots of love. mhm I thought it was laugh out loud. right that's what it means the cop.

didn't know that he thought he was. saying like hang in there LOL I got you. I got you okay I miss I'm a little thick. today that's all right I stole that joke. from Family Guy. anyway uh in the end though they did get. a you know a pretty good take they got. about. $300,000 worth of cash and then uh I. guess we should probably take a break. here but then they exited the bank and. all H double hockey sticks broke loose. yeah.

[Music]. [Applause]. [Music]. okay Chuck it's about. 9:25 I believe 8 minutes has passed the.

timer's gone off on their stopwatches. and uh ail M Sanu and Larry Phillips are. now planning on leaving the bank they. have a duffel bag with about 300 grand. in cash and supposedly right when they. walk out the door the die packs in the. bag go off and completely ruin the cash. so the cash that they thought was going. to be there wasn't there the cash that. they did get was now completely ruined. forever because of the die packs and um.

they come out and realize that the cops. have them surrounded that this 8 Minute. response time thing doesn't count when. the cops watch you walk into the bank. with ski masks and. AK-47s yeah like what kind of surrounded. are we talking about here we're talking. about surrounded on every side with. police helicopters hovering overhead. that's what they walked out of the bank. into yeah uh in the end there would be. more than 300 cops from five different. agents. that were engaged in this shootout so.

300 against. two uh that gives you a little insight. into just how much more heavily armed. these guys were that it lasted this long. but they walked out to that scene and. immediately turned North Hollywood into. a war zone um I I've watched a lot of. video this stuff and this is one of the. remarkable things is a lot of this stuff. is on video you know La is notorious for. you know anytime something like this is. happening there there's six helicopters.

news helicopters overhead like within. minutes just kind of live streaming uh. or I guess you wouldn't have called it. live streaming then what would you just. say broadcasting live broadcasting there. you go oh man it's been so long you're. so 2020s I am uh so yeah live. broadcasting this thing from above so. you can watch a lot of this take place. uh which is horrifying but again if. you've seen enough movies you're like. yeah it looks like a lot of movies I've. seen um but a lot of the interviews that. you know since then that have happened. with cops that were there and taking.

place basically said like these guys. just came out and started shooting at. every that moved citizens cars buildings. uh police cars at the Times uh at the. time didn't have Kevlar sighing in their. doors and stuff so like hiding inside a. police car was no good hiding behind a. police car was better CU a bullet going. all the way through it at least is going. to you know Ricochet around and probably. not go like straight into. um but you know they were it was all of.

a sudden it was like Vietnam out there. in North Hollywood so here's the thing. when the cops had them surrounded and. were waiting for them to come out um. number one in the cops mind they had no. idea if the whole place inside had just. been SL massacred because most most. robbers don't walk in and start shooting. into the air again that's movie stuff. that these guys were influenced by so. they heard like like I think 50 rounds. of automatic rifle fire in the bank. while they were waiting for these guys. to come out and they didn't know if. everyone inside was just completely.

killed that was number one but number. two the cops also presumed based on. experience in history um that when these. guys came out and saw they were. surrounded not just by cops and cop cars. but also helicopters that they would. just you know put their guns down and. put their hands up so they were. surprised at the response that these two. guys took on just even just this first. initial wave of dozens of cops um and. then they were further surprised when. the guys bullets started going right. through any Kevlar vests started going.

right through the police cars started. going through buildings through concrete. buildings there was a concrete locksmith. like kind of like a photo mat in the. parking lot that they were taking. shelter behind the bullets were going. through them this was it just suddenly. turned completely 180° from their. expectations and then even worse than. that they were finding their own guns. were having basically just pinging the. bullets were were pinging off of these. guys because they were wearing so much. body armor so this is about the moment.

almost immediately out of the gate when. the cops were like this is nothing like. anything we've ever experienced before. and we are outgunned right now yeah and. this sounds unbelievable but it's true. it was so bad right away that the cops. realized that and said if there's any. available units go to the gun store down. the street and get everything you can. like they literally went to a gun store. to to rearm or you know I guess uh what.

would you call it when you re to arm. raise your Armament yeah I guess so they. leveled up on their guns and uh they did. get guns apparently according to like um. recovered ammunition and stuff they. didn't actually end up using those in. the firefight cuz I guess you know the. whole thing didn't last that long and. I'm sure it took a while to you know. talk the store owner into giving up. these guns and getting the matching. ammunition and all right but they sent. for for backup for themselves by going.

to a gun store which is just crazy to. think about uh and they were like we. need the SWAT team this is uh we're. police cruiser guys and that we have. revolvers or 9 mmers and this ain't. happening SWAT team is downtown took him. about 18 minutes to get there and they. got there though they finally showed up. and uh apparently it was such a quick. sort of uh let's get their quick thing. that one of the SWAT officers was about. to go on a jog and he shows up in like. jogging shorts yeah if you watch like.

the footage of the um of them taking. maanu he's the first one to him and it's. kind of silly looking to be honest yeah. but um so yeah this first wave of cops. that they encountered I don't know how. many Cruisers there were but let's say. there's probably six and maybe a dozen. or so cops there were also two um two uh. bystanders who got caught in the. crossfire both of whom ended up getting. shot by those Ricochet bullets going. through cop cars that they were hiding. behind um cops were getting shot like.

through their Kevlar vests I think a. number of cops were injured and even. worse they were pinned down they were in. what's called The Kill Zone like these. guys were very easily able to shoot any. of these people who were fairly close to. them and so these these cops had to. basically Retreat um or be pinned down. and some of them were pinned down. because they were shot so if you if you. kind of watch some of the footage or you. um you know read about it that that kind. of gets left out and that was something.

I thought that the situation critical. documentary really kind of drove home. like there were there were some people. who were in grave grave danger in the. first like 10 15 minutes of this. firefight before backup arrived um and I. also saw it described that um Phillips. and and matanu at one point especially. when they were engaged with that first. wave of cops who were totally un. unprepared and unequipped to deal with.

them that they could have made a getaway. and that they seem to have decided that. they were wanted to stay in fight. instead yeah that's. unusual and I'm curious about the wisdom. of. that like if they had left if these guys. just would have went and got in their. car and tried to get out of there I. don't know who knows I mean I I don't. know the fact that they had a helicopter. on them would have made it pretty. difficult but who knows could have been. way worse it could have been shorter who. knows what could have happened but they.

I think the point was that they like. bank robbers don't try to stick around. when they're given the option to try to. make a run for it and these guys did. yeah I'm not going to Monday Morning. Quarterback this thing years later in my. podcast. Booth uh because I wasn't the one you. know getting shot at on the street so uh. there was one uh citizen hero among this. crowd which was uh dentist Dr Jorge. Montes had a office office across the. street and two cops that were injured.

like crawled up the stairs to his office. and he it sounds like he had saved at. least one of their lives he treated them. immediately and one of the cops had a. shrapnel in his ankle and um Montes was. smart enough to be like we should leave. that in there like I'll treat you but. I'm not taking that out because it could. get worse and that officer later said. that he probably saved my life cuz I. probably would have bled out yeah that's. pretty great um so. a few minutes before 10 this firefight.

has been going on for 30 30 plus minutes. now okay um Phillips and mosanu um. decide this is a really fateful decision. and no one has any idea why probably. will never know why but M Sanu gets in. their white Chevy Celebrity the ugliest. gateaway car ever um oh there's one. other thing about that white Chevy. Celebrity they had it backed up to the. bank in a parking space and so when they. came out and they were shooting at the. cops and everybody that that moved for.

30 minutes with their assault weapons um. whenever their assault rifle would like. run out of ammo or Jam or something they. just throw it down go to the trunk of. the car and come back with a brand new. assault rifle and they had like drums. like 100 round drums as Clips so they. were really doing a lot of damage and at. some point they decided let's head out. matanu gets in the Chevy Celebrity and. um rather than get in with him uh Larry. Phillips decides to walk alongside just.

firing at everybody while matanu slowly. drives with him and then the really. fateful decision is made where they. decide to split up and Larry Phillips. peels off from matanu and starts walking. down the sidewalk of a street the side. street that a residential street into a. residential area yeah yeah it's I you. know I think I read a lot about this too. I think he might have thought he was. providing some initial cover and the.

whole split up thing is just you know. judging from the movies I think. sometimes that's just what they decide. to do like you know instead of. concentrating everything on us if we. split up that'll that'll split the you. know the burden or whatever yeah I mean. I get that I also I based on how quickly. things happened after that it also makes. me wonder if it was like I'm just going. to go take my last stand well maybe I. mean who knows we're never going to know. basically and you'll soon find out why. uh so in the end Phillips was uh shot 11.

times he's walking down this side street. yeah he's still walking after some of. the most of these shots yeah he's. walking down the side street he's firing. at everything he can and he gets just. like in the movies like an old western. or something a cop shoots his hand like. shoots the gun out of his hand by. shooting his hand he reaches down picks. it up puts it under his chin and in an. attempt to kill himself and uh pulls the.

trigger and you know it's it was sort of. a bang bang thing no one's sure which. was the kill shot but sort of right. along that time either right when it. happened or right after he fell a cop. had shot him uh True Romance style. through the side of his body where there. was no uh protection no protective vest. cuz that stuff is usually like it's on. your back it's on your chest but kind of. not through the side and he severed his. spine and he was dead immediately from.

one of the two wounds so um Larry. Phillips is now dead one way or another. either by his own hand or by the cop's. um shot uh and that is not the end of. things because matanu is still on the. Move he's in his white celebrity um. moving down the street past where. Phillips has just died um and here's. here's what's crazy because as we'll see. the lap TD is very much FedEd after this. for having saved North Hollywood taken.

on these guys who outgun them um but. there's a really critical point that I. think people just move right past when. they were moving up archwood this. residential street it was not closed off. so people were driving past Emil. matanu within feet like a handful of. feet of this guy and they were confused. they didn't know what was going on and. he's strapped with like this AK driving. the white celebrity which now has his. tire shuted out looking for another car.

and at least three or four pass him uh. before he finally stops and picks one. and start shooting at the car and that. was a huge huge failure on the lapd's. part because those guys could have gone. anywhere on archwood street and started. taking hostages easily what was the. failure that they didn't close the. street off like I don't understand how. you could they had bank robbery you. could close it off somewhere back there. there was through traffic still coming. down archwood like right by the bank if. you watch it it's crazy that that's no I.

know I I I just don't I don't know man I. think that's also Monday morning. quarterbacking I don't know if they. could have they were in the middle of a. a shootout I just I don't know I mean. the whole LAPD was focused on this. shootout I feel like they could have. shut the street down it's just crazy to. me all right agree to disagree okay at. any rate he's firing at cars he gets in. this guy's uh Jeep pickup truck and the. guy got injured he was fine he ran out. of there and you know got away at least.

and he starts you know he still thinks. he can get out of there I guess he's. transferring weapons from that Chevy to. the truck and three SWAT guys drive over. there uh he comes out again and all of a. sudden there's another shootout on the. Street movie Style with both of them. kind of Crouch Behind these cars and the. cops do a very smart thing which is. shoot underneath the car at his feet at. his legs whatever they can hit and they. end up hitting him 28 times and dropped. him yeah man can you imagine taking 28.

shots in your legs and feet I can't. imagine one he put his hands up he he he. gave up he surrendered um and was laying. behind the celebrity uh I think in the. end when they when they captured him 12. officers had been injured had been shot. somewh in pretty bad shape miraculously. all survived eight bystanders have been. injured all all of them survived. everyone in the bank survived and it. turned out that the only two people who.

didn't survive were Larry Phillips and. Emil matanu who ended up bleeding to. death from his injuries lying in behind. that Chevy Celebrity isn't that nuts. Chuck I think 17 or 1,800 rounds were. fired in this 44-minute firefight and. only two people died the the bank. robbers yeah and that became a matter of. uh just sort of of further scrutiny. because Mattis Serano you know he's. laying there he's bleeding and he says.

you know why don't you put a bullet. through my head and when the EMTs show. up the cops keep them away they say. don't come over here emt's never. examined them examined him and he slowly. uh bled out basically over the next hour. and died uh they were you know heavily. scrutinized I think there was an. attorney that ended up filing a suit on. behalf of the kids uh that said hey you. know regardless of whether this guy was. a bank robber you can't you know you.

still have an obligation to treat an. injured human on the ground as a cop the. cop's response was like we didn't know. if there were other people involved if. they were around if they had a sniper if. they had explosives on their body we. didn't want to put those EMTs in danger. and in the end uh they dropped I'm sorry. it was a a deadlock jury at first uh so. it was a mistrial and then they decided. not to go further with another case cuz. they might be countersued for malicious.

prosecution well put did you read the LA. Times article on that oh yeah they. really went to town putting this thing. together and no one came out looking. okay you know no and it was you know the. LA PD has always had a checkered. reputation so like at first they were. Heroes CU this was all over the news and. this was you know a handful of years. after Rodney King when they had probably. an alltime low. opinion rating so they were like look. look at the cops like protecting you and.

and putting their lives at risk so it. was good for p at first but then this. they let him bleed out in the street for. an hour I'm sure a lot of people were. like good and a lot of people are like. yeah you still can't do that sure so um. one of the other outcomes of this was. that it changed police forces across the. United States forever like the the. police realized that they were not. equipped for something like this to. happen in not only Los Angeles but every. other town in the United States and in.

the defense uh spending act I think of. 1997 they passed a section called um. 1033 that said that the Department of. Defense can sell any excess um Armory. weapons material what to local police. departments now that's a new thing and. it turned into what's been roundly. considered the militarization of the. police that's had all sorts of knock. effects including according to multiple.

studies um an increase in death at. during police shootings and that's a big. criticism of this that rather than. people saying let's reduce the Public's. access to things like assault rifles. that can kill tons of people and have. firefights like this instead the push. has been to Let's arm the cops equally. to these these um criminals that can be. armed to the teeth as well um to make it. even which there's a logic to it sure.

but you could also reduce the Public's. access to those kind of things as well. and that didn't really happen well one. of the good things that came out of it. was. PTSD uh counseling for police officers. was not such a big thing at the time and. after this it became much more uh just. sort of implemented across the country. yeah that is a good thing for sure. anything else got nothing else I think. there's a the in Grand Theft Auto 5 one. of the heists the petto score is based.

on this. too and there's a movie called 44. minutes that was made for TV on FX and. it's. terrible I bet um if you want to know. anything else about the North Hollywood. shootout there's plenty to see and read. about that um and while you're reading. and seeing about the North Hollywood. shootout I think it's time for listener. Ma. I'm going to call this uh follow-up that. I feel pretty bad about uh we did our.

podcast episode on Kinton grua uh Grand. Canyon River Adventure not too long ago. and we actually heard from his uh wife. Michelle guua who was uh she not a stuff. you should know listen her but someone. told her about it she listened and she. wanted to clear up some things uh and so. I'm going to read it uh it's a little. lengthy but I feel like we a tour her uh. Hey guys uh I was surprised to be. informed by a friend of your podcast. about my late husband Factor uh yes our.

children and I all called him factor. that was his preferred name I appreciate. that you obtained most of your. information from Kevin's book The. Emerald mile which is for the most part. accurate there are some things that you. said that are not accurate and uh. depictions of factor that I'd like to. set straight uh these things are likely. only important to me our children and to. his two brothers uh if they were to ever. hear your podcast I can tell that you. appreciated his adventurous Spirit and. the grandiosity of the things he did but. I would gently suggest that you might. consider the feelings of those left. behind with regard to the way you depict.

someone uh he's not just some character. and a really cool story he's someone's. husband father and brother who is sorely. missed I do not expect any kind of. retraction uh public retraction I just. wanted to let you know about the. inaccuracy uh so you could have a more. clear picture of him he was the most. humble gracious generous respectful. considerate fear Soul I've ever met. truly one of a kind and the greatest. factor in my my life uh regarding the. description of him really liking booze.

uh and Hiking out to obtain extra liquor. the passengers on that particular. commercial trip are the ones who. requested extra booze and given that. there's no delivery into the canyon he. offered to hike out and procure a. resupply for them uh regarding the. moccasins he was a purist and his. reasoning was that the ancient weins. who' lived in the canyon had likely worn. moccasins and he wanted to pay homage to. them and not have any unfair modern. advantage like hiking boots uh he had. scouted the route before and the first. through hike attempt had uh he had.

placed food CES uh cases cashes cashes. for that hike as well is doing so the. second time as an insight into his. character he hiked back in to remove all. of them after the hike leaving no Trace. you said that he was obsessed if you can. say that about someone who smokes that. much pot uh I feel like you may have. missed a key element of kenton's. character in you're reading about him. that he had a fierce intellect an. intense focus and once he got a hold of. an idea he ruminated on it turned it. over and over in his mind until he.

worked out all the details not. consistent with the Sleepy image you. conjure up when thinking about a typical. Stoner it also Bears mentioning that the. original idea was w-e wrists uh Wally. Rudy and Kinton did the original speed. one but w-e was no longer working on the. river in 83 and thus not able to partake. this time around uh kitten came up with. the idea to put a second set of orlocks. on the boat. so you could have two rowing stations to. tackle the flat water at the far west of.

the canyon as far as the fine uh the. fine that was imposed as reportedly $500. but I have the cancel check to the. cocino County magistrate in the amount. of $250 paid by Kenton so so your. assertion that uh he couldn't afford it. is not accurate uh he never mentioned. any imposition of community service to. me as well uh and we are also quite sure. of how he died he died uh not due. Collision or impact but from the. spontaneous aortic dissection not an.

aneurysm he was found unresponsive on. the trail by a hiker while the kids and. I were home awaiting his return He was. not dead when the hiker found him uh he. was taken to the local hospital where. resuscitation efforts failed he wasn't. laying in a peaceful position the hiker. said he was still as stride as bike and. it appeared that he had just tipped over. uh indeed he had a little cut over his. ear where his sunglasses dug into the. side of his head when he landed uh as a. physician myself I can tell you he was. probably in significant chest pain uh.

and he died about 200 yards after. passing through what would have been a. busy trail head parking area so he was. probably pedaling like hell to get home. just a couple of miles away but. dissected and lost Consciousness less. than a minute after passing through the. lot I only discovered it when he was 2. hours late getting home from the ride. and called the hospital where I worked. to see if they had any mountain bikers. that had come in they said yes yes but. they weren't able to identify him and. that was the last moment of true peace.

that I had I am glad you found the story. so compelling I'm sure he's glad people. are hearing of it and he doesn't have to. do the telling himself but accur. accuracy is important please don't paint. him as a. caricature uh best uh Michelle guua and. I emailed her a very long email back and. I felt terrible about all this and she. was very sweet and much more uh graceful. than I would have been in her position. so yeah I was going to say I mean if if. you're going to get taken to task by a. living relative of someone we profile.

it's about as as nice as it can get for. sure yeah so thank you Michelle for that. and uh just publicly I'm sorry for. anything we did that causes you any. upset yeah agreed it was definitely not. our intent to to create a caricature out. of him that's never our intent so sorry. that that happened inadvertently and. thank you for taking the time to write. all that and thank you Chuck for reading. all of it certainly uh if you want to. get in touch with us like Michelle Gru. did uh you can use email as she did as. well send it off to stuff podcast.

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