The Fall of the USSR, Pt I | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW

Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a. production [music] of iHeart Radio. >> Hey, and welcome [music] to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck, and Jerry's. here, too. >> [music]. >> And we're just a few Cold War kids. working out our ongoing fascination with. the Soviet Union. >> That's right. This is a. Man, it's been a long time since we've. done a two-parter. I was trying to. remember the last time we did this.

>> Probably ADHD. >> Yeah, maybe. I'm I'm weirdly excited by. a two-parter for some reason. >> Yeah, it is a little weird. >> It It feels like less work. >> [laughter]. >> Even though it's not. >> It's fun, also, to tackle something and. like really understand it even further, you know? >> No, I totally agree. Like smashing this. into a single 45-minute episode would it. it short-shifted it, I think. >> Uh you know we did, we scored it with a. sickle and then smashed it down the. middle with a hammer.

>> Wow. Look at you. >> Yeah. So, we are talking about the Union. of Soviet Socialist Republics, uh the USSR. For some reason, the CCCP. in Russia, Soviet Russia. I mean, how. many times are we going to do Yakov. Smirnoff in this episode? >> I'm going to try not to do it once. >> No, well, you do a better Yakov Smirnoff. than me, so I hope you will. >> Although, Branson, very nice this time. of year. >> There you go. >> [laughter]. >> So, um yeah, and in the I think the.

basically 1990. to the very beginning of 1992, this superpower, one of two superpowers. in the world, the way that the world was aligned was. based on these two superpowers. One of. them just fell over and was gone. in the blink of an eye. >> Like really quickly. >> Yeah. I mean, like just breathtakingly. fast it went away and not just the.

country the superpower. but also. um. the the Soviet communism itself. It was. just gone Chuck. Just gone. >> Gone. And and the end of an ideal. the end of a cold war like it was you. know. I I can't think of anything that was. bigger since the end of World War II. geopolitically like the This had to be. the biggest thing. >> I I think absolutely for sure. The best. part about it though at least as far as.

the world was concerned it didn't take a. nuclear World War III to make to bring. the Cold War and the the bipolar. um. I guess orientation of the world to an. end. >> Yeah and it it was a top-down thing like. it wasn't uh an uprising although as. we'll see like on the Eastern Bloc there. were definitely some uprisings and. things that happened as a result but the. [clears throat] whole thing started as a. top-down thing. >> Yeah. >> because of one guy because of uh Mikhail.

Gorbachev Is it Gorbachev or is it. Gorbachev? >> I it was I always heard both throughout. our youth. >> All right great. So I'll just say both. Uh. >> I'm just going to call him Gorby. >> It was Yeah that's right. It was because. of a series of decisions that he made to. um. to not fully westernize the Soviet Union. but to loosen the reins some to get a. little capitalism in there to get a. little more transparency relax the reins.

on the you know the hard fist of the. Soviet regime um to kind of just have a. newer sort of softer uh Soviet Union. moving forward and. boy he. I. I don't know if he didn't fully think it. through or if it was just um the domino. effect was so fast I'm sure he was. probably like wow like I didn't think. this was going to happen. >> Yeah, he he's just standing there like. looking guilty while the whole room is.

just falling down around him cuz he. touched something he wasn't supposed to. kind of. >> Yeah, for sure, but it it all sort of. started with these um two major reforms. that he set out to establish which was. uh in Russian it would be uh. perestroika and glasnost, but to us that. would be restructuring and transparency. And I guess we should talk about the. restructuring first. >> Yeah, perestroika. Um one more thing I. do want to say about Gorby though before. we move on is I didn't see anything.

anywhere that suggested that he this was. secretly purposeful. I think you're. absolutely right. I think he was. completely taken off guard by. the the consequences of these pretty. legitimate and good ideas at the time. because Gorbachev inherited a USSR that. had that was in deep stagnation by the. the mid-1980s, right? >> Yeah. >> Um it was a planned economy. and it had been moving along in that. direction for decades.

Um but by this time by the '80s it was. just. it was not in good shape. And so like. you said to kind of like jump-start the. socialist economy, not replace it but. jump-start it, he was willing to. implement some Western-style free market. ideas. >> Yeah, I mean he was a very progressive. guy for Soviet uh Russia. >> Mhm. >> You know, so uh it was the late '80s. where he launched this like uh we. mentioned the first thing the. restructuring or the uh perestroika.

And that was to sort of that was sort of. the economical political side of things. to kind of loosen the grips a little bit. uh because he was like the reality of. what um our ideals are. uh and what's really going on, like. there's a big gap there. Right. So, he. thought maybe if we have this program of. like political renewal and maybe some. ethics and morals. being introduced like in a like. systematically, then maybe we can. improve what's going on here and that.

was what perestroika was supposed to be. about. >> Yeah, and glasnost, both of them. together. But that So, that planned economy, Chuck, here's what Gorby inherited. The. So, you have the ruble, which was the. official currency of the USSR. It was. not accepted or recognized outside of. the USSR or outside of the Eastern Bloc, I should say, outside the Iron Curtain. >> Yeah, big problem. >> It is a big problem. Uh number two, the. Soviet government was responsible for. deciding how much of what any given.

thing was made in any given year, right? It wasn't based on supply and demand. It. was based on a planned economy. Yeah. They also set prices for those things. So, if you put all those things. together, the Soviet economy had no way. of signaling who needed what, where, and. when. And so, there were shortages. everywhere. There was lots of waste. And. there were very few businesses. All the. businesses um in this planned economy. were owned by the state.

Um There were very few of those. businesses that didn't need to also be. propped up artificially because they. were just. losing money left and right. >> Yeah. So, I mean, like you said, that. what he inherited was in bad shape. already. Uh one of the reasons and, you. know, I remember this is something we. had heard a lot like growing up as Gen. Xers. was that um. the Soviets are are trying to keep pace. in the Cold War and the space race. uh and everything else and they can't. they can't keep up that spending like uh.

we could there in the West. And that was. true. Um all that government spending. put a real dent in uh their their. financial outlook. Uh the war and. invasion of Afghanistan over a 10-year. period from '79 to '89 was very costly. >> Yeah. >> Uh and then Chernobyl. I mean, we'll. talk a little bit about just the the. cost of. like the. the um I guess ethical cost of the. cover-up and what that did to dent their. image like within. you know, Russia. >> Mhm. >> Uh in the Soviet Union, but it literally.

cost a lot of money like at least $18. billion. like 1986 dollars to. to clean it up, to contain it, and that. was on top of everything else like the. straw that broke the camel's back. >> Yeah, that was a big deal for them for. sure. Um did you ever see that Chernobyl. mini series with uh Jared. I can't remember his last name. >> Jared Harris. >> Yeah, one of the finest actors of all. time I think. >> Yeah. You bet your butt I did. It was. >> Man. >> outstanding. >> Outstanding. I wish all mini series were.

that good. >> Yeah, it was one of the best ones I'd. seen. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Agreed. >> Um so again, perestroika is is Gorbachev. coming along and being like, "Okay, uh. we're in big trouble. We need some money. fast and we need to just make some. adjustments." So some of those. adjustments were basically this was. huge. Like these were incredibly radical. um. with the backdrop of the of the Soviet. economy, right? >> For sure. >> One was allowing companies. from outside the USSR to start up.

businesses in the USSR and they would be. joint ventures co-owned by the company. and by the Soviet Union, right? >> Yeah. >> So now all of a sudden you have new. expertise, new ideas, new innovation, new high-quality products coming in. Um. and a bunch of money, outside investment. coming in into the USSR. That's a pretty. good idea, right? >> Yeah, that was a good idea. Uh as part. of that he said, "Uh maybe we should. also. get um like the locals involved. So hand.

over some of the ownerships of some of. these state-run enterprises that that. had, which is basically all business. >> Right. >> From the government only owned by the. government to a locally elected workers. collective or a series of them. >> Right. >> And so that meant that you could have. private business in the Soviet Union for. the first time. Uh and then the other one was, you know, you mentioned that they. um they had like quotas for companies. They didn't look at at market. corrections like supply and demand to. indicate how they should run stuff. Uh.

they said, all right, maybe we should. allow businesses to like you know, instead of having shortfalls of stuff. that we really need, maybe. they should fulfill beyond the quotas. for a change. And you know, you got to make the amount. set by the quota, but beyond that you. could continue making that stuff if. there's demand for it. >> For sure. Okay, so these are very. radical ideas. But. had he just gone with perestroika, my. money is on. perestroika alone would not have.

torn down the USSR. I think it was a combination and. probably more than anything it was. really glasnost that did it. Um. the problems with perestroika were. immediately apparent. Um there were. by investing more power. into the the um the uh republics that. all made up the Soviet Union. >> Yeah. >> Um they started to withhold tax payments. that were supposed to go to the central. government, right? They were kind of a. little bit emboldened, I guess, by that.

little extra power they were given. >> Yeah, for sure. >> Some of the ministers who had run these. places for the government were now. running them kind of like as private. citizens and they started looting. industry however they could. It just. immediately started. And then. the [clears throat] old quota system was. what they had in place of supply and. demand, but no one under the Soviet. regime had any idea. what other stuff you could use for.

supply and demand. Plus the ruble was. still artificially controlled, so they. didn't have any market signals. Nobody. knew what the heck was going on at this. point. >> Yeah, I mean, it was all brand new. Like, and we'll talk about this later. Uh. but it, you know, you can't just flick a. switch overnight. and say, all of a sudden we're a more. free market economy and let's just see. how that works because it had been so. long. >> Right. >> and so, you know, intertwined in the in the. government's iron fist, uh it was just a. mess. And so, the economy started just.

going bananas in all sorts of weird ways. and the government tried to rein that in. by spending a lot to try and like. outmaneuver all the weird things that. were happening. >> Mhm. >> And it it was just a a big mess kind of. right off the bat. >> Yes. So, it was a mess, but the Soviet. Union's economy was already a mess and I. don't think just perestroika would have. done what happened. >> It took glasnost, in my opinion, to. bring down the Soviet Union. Um should we keep going right now?

>> Are you kidding me? With a cliffhanger. like that? >> Okay. >> [laughter]. >> Oh, man. I I was like, we're taking a. message break and you're like, >> Hey, man, you convinced me immediately. >> Yeah, that's a great cliffhanger. We're. going to come back and explain what. glasnost was right after this. >> [music]. [music].

>> All right, Josh teased glasnost and that. was the the the second part of the. one-two punch to try and introduce a new. style of government in the Soviet Union. And this, uh you know, calls for this. kind of started coming after the. Chernobyl cover-up in '86. >> Mhm. >> And the whole idea behind glasnost was. was more transparency, like I said, that's what the word means. So, relax. some of this um. you know, very notorious um state.

censorship of everything. Uh and so, once that was done, all these. social ills that plagued the Soviet. Union started to be exposed a little bit. in the media. So, um you know, like mass. famine, uh the gulags, uh. you know, Soviet history basically kind. of being. uh realized for the first time uh and. displayed for people to make their own. like judgments on it was. a good idea, but again, uh once those.

floodgates were open, it was like turned. out to not be a very good idea. >> Yes. So, I believe Gorbachev was a true. believer in the idea that um. the Soviet Union needed greater freedom. of speech and greater freedom of the. press. I think he truly believed that. >> I do, too. >> This was also calculated politically as. well, and his position was, "Okay, if I. can have an open conversation with the. the Soviet people about the need for.

reforms and all the stuff we need to. implement because of these problems we. have, they're going to support my policies and. plans and me. And by doing that, I will be I will pull. the the levers of power away from the. conservatives who have managed to hang. on to power and keep things as they. were, stagnated and in trouble, um. by that censorship, by the silence, um. silencing of critics, by intimidation. and actual violence. Like, if I.

get people talking openly about the. problems, then we can have real change. So, it was politically calculated, even. though he did almost certainly actually. believe that it needed to happen, too. >> Yeah, for sure. Uh but the thing is, like what you're saying was the. conservatives had managed to hang on to. that power by keeping things as they. were, which wasn't great, but it was. stable in a way. Like it it wasn't um. it wasn't chaos. Uh it was highly. controlled and that's the way they liked.

it. So, to disrupt that system. was uh you know, it was pretty bold. move. Um he himself uh he was part of. the uh what was known as the. nomenclature, which was the sort of the. upper echelon of of Soviet society. >> Mhm. >> Uh it's like the the elite bureaucrats. and they had. they had perks that other people didn't. have. Obviously, they had like, you. know, estates and they had nicer cars. and things like that. And that was not a. part of the communist experiment, the. communist idea, or this idea of social. equality.

>> Right. >> And I think he had spent so much time in. his career in the nomenclature that he. really was out of touch with what was. going on for the average sort of. day-to-day life of the average Soviet. >> Yeah, so he knew enough to know that. they were suffering and weren't fully. aware of why, but he had no idea of just. how much their suffering was promoting a. a desire for real real change. >> Yeah.

>> Not even like small incremental change, or even semi-big change like he was. proposing, but sweeping change. essentially. And that's what he found. out once he opened up glasnost. And it. wasn't immediately. uh adopted. I think the press actually. kind of hung back for a little while at. first like, is this trap? >> [laughter]. >> Yeah. >> Are you trying to are we going to be. arrested? And he was like, "No, no." I. think he said at some point like, "There's no subject that's off the. table. Everything is open for. discussion." And very quickly the press. started to do what they're supposed to.

do. They began reporting on the ills of. of um. Soviet society. >> Yeah, I mean, it was. it's crazy thing to do looking back. >> Yes. >> Uh. they you know, cuz all of a sudden the. media is writing about food shortages. and writing about the rampant alcoholism. and the pollution and the mortality. rates. We'll get to some stats later on, but. uh the second-tier sort of uh position. of women in Russian and Soviet society. >> Yeah. >> Uh state crimes. Um a lot of that was.

like under Stalin's rule, obviously, but. you know, that stuff was still going on. And so all of these. sort of, you know, true believers and as. you'll see, like especially in Mother. Russia. >> Mhm. [clears throat]. >> uh the the Eastern Bloc sort of had. other ideas, but um especially in Mother. Russia, like this is something they. really believed in and they had never. received this information. So it was. easy if you were on, you know, in the. United States or in the West to be like, "God, they're they they have no idea. what's going on in their own country.". >> Right. >> Uh because everything is being censored.

But they they really didn't. And you. know, it's if you're living in a in a. smaller town or a village and you're. looking around, you might see some ills, but if you're reading about how. everything is great, then it's going to, you know, slant your opinion of it all. >> Yeah, and even more than that, as as. we'll talk about in a little while, a. lot [clears throat] of Soviets. identities were rooted in the Soviet. experiment that now had been exposed as. being based on. torture and executions and the the.

starvation of millions and millions of. peasants, you know, like. >> Yeah. >> That it was it it shook them to their. core. It wasn't just like a loss of. faith in their government. It was a loss. of faith in their own. their themselves, I guess, in some. cases. >> Yeah, for sure. Uh and you know, like I. mentioned, especially in Russia uh cuz. that was sort of the the center of the. Soviet Union, but once this happened and. these uh formerly independent satellite. states.

like he said earlier, I think he really. underestimated how ready they all were. to really break free and and sort of. rise up. And. uh you know, there were some some. deep-seated like ancient uh, hostilities. and rivalries among some of these Soviet. states that were forced to be together. because they were part of the Soviet. Union. And you know, a good example you. found was the ethnic Albanians and the. Serbs. Mhm. They had hated each other. since the 14th century, uh, since the. Battle of the Field of Blackbirds. But.

as a part of the Soviet Union, they. were, you know, supposed to be fellow. countrymen. So as soon as they got the. chance. to hate each other again, >> Right. >> uh, they did. And that's why there was. so much fighting in the Balkans like for. basically all throughout the '90s once. this happened. >> Yeah, because the Soviets no longer. forced them together and they were like, "Okay, it's on. Let's start committing. atrocities." And they all did. Uh, the other thing that really kind of, um, happened with glasnost was the, um,

like the exposure of Western media, Western pop culture. >> Oh, yeah. >> Like this was not something that that. people had in the in the USSR. really been exposed to at this point. Um, did you ever see that documentary. where somebody was smuggling like Chuck. Norris movies into, I think, Bulgaria or. something like that? And they credited. like these bootleg American movies as. essentially like creating like unrest. among the youth and leading eventually.

to revolution? >> No. Because they were like, "Wow, there's a guy like Chuck Norris in the. world that we don't know about?". >> I Yeah. Essentially, Chuck Norris, Rambo, like they went crazy for it. And. they also now saw the Western view of. their country and their culture. And. they were like, "Wow, this Maybe maybe. you are pretty backwards. We don't have. anybody like that.". >> Well, I mean, you know, and I'm not. saying this in jest cuz you know how. much I love Billy Joel, >> Mhm. >> but that, uh, I think it was a a couple.

of concerts he did in the Soviet Union. >> Yeah. >> Uh, that was a really, really big deal. Like, no Western artist had ever. performed there. And um. yeah, I think that made a big. difference, you know, as far as opening. people's eyes to. to uh Western culture. >> Yeah, I think Metallica did, too. >> Oh, did they? Later, obviously. >> Yeah, a little later, but um you know, I. it might have been before the fall of. the Soviet Union, but probably right. around the time. Um.

I I Alf, I mean, once they found out. that Alf was on TV, they're like, "It's. It is over for Communist Russia.". >> Well, the big thing that really um. allowed the uh the the satellite states. outside of Russia itself to really um I. guess feel like they had a um a real. chance at uprising. >> Mhm. >> was when Gorbachev renounced the. Brezhnev Doctrine, which was the. doctrine that said, "Hey, uh we're going. to defend everybody here. We're going to. defend socialism with this massive um uh.

army. We're all together. Uh the Soviet. block is as one, and we will all defend. each other." Sort of like a NATO thing. >> Mhm. >> Uh and in its place, Gorbachev was like, "You know, you guys pursue your own. reforms, and you know, govern govern. with the support of the people." Like, all these satellite states. And again, just the pedal to the metal that. happened after that, and once the they. knew that they didn't have Moscow's. military support, like removing that. show of force,

it that was kind of holding everything. together. So, once that went away, it. just started to crumble. >> Yeah. Now, I think you've created a really. good um. cliffhanger. >> Oh. >> So, what do you say? Should we take a. our second break here? >> Yeah, let's do it. >> Okay. We're going to do that, guys. Chuck just agreed. >> [music]. [music].

[music]. >> Okay, Chuck. So, where we last left off. was when Gorbachev. abandoned the Brezhnev Doctrine that. said, "We're going to show up with our. military if there's any unrest in any of. the satellite states or republics.". And without that show of force, that was that was probably, like you. said before the break, the thing that.

really kind of gave rise or gave support. to these nationalist movements. And each. time one of the like the satellite. states So, we're we're focusing now on. satellite states. We should. differentiate. So, there were 15. republics in the USSR. It included like. Latvia, Estonia, Turkmenistan, a bunch of others. And then there were satellite states. that were ostensibly independent. countries like Czechoslovakia, Hungary,

Poland, Albania, a few others. Those are. considered satellite states. You put all. of them together. So, you have the USSR. with the 15 republics and the satellite. states. Now you have the Eastern Bloc. and all that's behind what they called. the Iron Curtain. That whole portion of. the world was. turned in on itself, had turned its back. on the rest of the world, and was. focused on its own socialist experiment. aside from helping out other countries. that wanted to try their own socialist. experiments, which is why there was.

secret fighting in like Nicaragua and. why Cuba had missiles nuclear missiles. aimed at the United States. For the most. part though, the Eastern Bloc paid. attention to itself and kept the rest of. the world out. >> That's right. And kept them in. But once. there was freedom of movement and travel. from behind the Iron Curtain, this was. like a really a really key to like the. weakening of the Union. And they were. like, "You know what's really nice is. is Budapest and that's just you know, a.

handful of hours by train into Austria. So all of a sudden you had tens of. thousands of East Germans defecting. >> Mhm. >> Um most people wanted to stay in like in. their houses though. Like people want to. live where they have their have lived. their whole lives and so it wasn't like. everybody left. Like citizens of other. Soviet Republics, East Germans, most of. them wanted to stay in their homes, but. they wanted things to be different. So. as soon as sort of the door was open. politically and all of a sudden you. could vote for different candidates, like those candidates.

completely swept every election that. happened. >> Yeah. Poland was the first one. It's. also probably the best example of them. all. Um because. being in the Eastern Bloc, there was one. party. When you went to vote, you voted. for one party and that was the Communist. Party of the Soviet Union. Even if you. had an independent country, the. Communists had your country, your. government on lockdown, right? And and. at one point um as part of like this.

series of decisions that just took this. rolling snowball and and just turned it. into an avalanche um was Gorbachev. saying um. no longer are alternative parties. outlawed. We can have other parties. And. that first started in Poland with the. Solidarity Party, which had been a trade. union for a decade or so. Um. and it had turned into a populist. anti-authoritarian party. And now that. it was possible for Solidarity to run.

against the Communists, um like you. said, the board was just totally swept. by then. >> Wasn't that. uh Lech Wałęsa? >> Mhm. >> Yeah, I remember. I mean, all this stuff was on the news, but I was in late high school into early. college and that wasn't you know, I I. wasn't paying attention like I do, you. know, as you get older, I think, same as most people. >> You didn't have a Solidarity Party. t-shirt in the It looked like a Smirnoff. label. >> [laughter]. >> But I remember, you know, all of this. stuff was in the background always on.

the news. >> Yeah. >> Uh but yeah, once the Solidarity Party. um had a chance to run, it was it was a. sort of partially free election because. what they did was they said, "All right, you can have a new party, but it's not. just for 100% of the available seats. The Solidarity Party can have 35 like a. up to 35% of the seats uh in their you. know, the Polish equivalent of the House. of Representatives or House of Commons. >> Mhm. >> The other 65% were still reserved for.

the Communist Party. So, they would. still hold on to power, uh and then they. also had a newly created Senate. So, 100. newly created Senate seats, and. Solidarity won. uh 99 out of the 100 Senate seats. Uh. the one independent that won later. switched to Solidarity, >> Mhm. >> and they completely obviously filled the. the 35% allotment that they were uh. well, allotted uh in the house, uh and. the communists were so unpopular, they. didn't even get all the votes they. needed to fill the other 65%.

>> Yeah. Yeah. So, Solidarity showed the rest of. the world like, we like, we have been. under the the Communist thumb, the. Soviet thumb. We don't want that. Not. only do we want to be independent, we. don't want to be communist anymore. >> Yeah. >> And they weren't after that. I mean, once Solidarity came into power, uh. Poland very quickly was like, "We're. we're not associated with them anymore, everybody. Come on over to Poland. We. have amazing sausages, um and all sorts of other good things.

that you'll find out when when you get. here.". >> That's right. We're Please, no jokes. >> [clears throat]. >> Uh we've heard about all that stuff, but. yeah, leave those at home. >> Right. [laughter] Our uh submarines do. not have screen doors on them. >> That's right. I've never understood. that. I've always meant to look that up. on why that was a thing. >> Oh, because um if you what like once. it's submerged all the water would come. through the screen door. >> Now I remember jokes about Polish. people. I never knew the background to. that. >> I I think they just got picked on. It's.

one of those things where it's like so. this group has all the jokes against. them so then you start to just think. they're all stupid so that just begets. more jokes against them I think. >> It's like Detroit. >> Yes, exactly. >> [laughter]. >> Just kidding Detroit. We love you. Uh so the. the Berlin Wall comes down obviously. That was a big deal. Uh Germany was. reunified. Um. you know, sort of been a model of the. West and that was just like that was. less than a year after.

uh the Polish elections of of 1989. So. like things were really happening at a. fast clip. >> Yeah. >> Uh the leader of Bulgaria retired. Um. the Czechoslovak government was. replaced. Um the only place kind of. shockingly that you had a bloody. revolution was in Romania and Ceaușescu. >> Yeah. Took that happened in a few months in. 1989. All of that all of those satellite. states just communism fell.

So I mean I can't I wish I'd been a. little older. I remember when the Berlin. Wall fell and I was like mom we got to. go. We got to get on a plane. We have to. get there. This is amazing. She wanted. to so bad but she just we didn't. Um. >> You're like I've always wanted to see. East Germany. >> Exactly. >> [laughter]. >> And this is our only chance. >> Yeah. >> Um but I wish I'd been a little bit. older so I could be so I could have paid. attention to this because I can't. imagine what it was like paying. attention to this over just these few. months from the time that Poland's.

elections were held in June to the end. of 1989. Um like just country after country's. communist regimes fell. And like you. said only Romania's uh turned bloody and. you can pretty much fully blame the. Ceaușescu regime for for starting it. They started it essentially. >> Yeah, he was the Romanian dictator. there, Nicolae Ceaușescu, and his wife. Elena who uh was also appointed in a in.

a high office by her husband. So, they. were. you know, they were uh. a power couple, I guess. Uh. but they had mass protests breaking out. and Ceaușescu went to the military and. he said, "Kill them. Fire on these. unarmed civilians." And he thought that. would have been like, "All right, we're. going to quash this really quick.". >> Sure. >> But the military was like, "Bro, that's. we're not into that." And so, they. defected just like a few days after he. ordered them to fire upon them. Not only. did they not do that, they defected to.

the protester side. And he and Elena saw. the writing on the wall and they're. like, "We need to get the heck out of. here." But the military caught them. Uh. technically had a military tribunal. It's pretty short form though. And they. were found guilty and executed by firing. squad. >> Yeah, and strung upside down by their. ankles for public viewing. >> Yeah, harsh stuff. >> There was a rumor, too. Do you remember. hearing this? That um Ceaușescu. >> Sort of. >> the Ceaușescus were fed to dogs. >> Yeah.

>> after they were dead. And um that is a. rumor. From what I can tell, it did not. happen. But the reason that rumor came. about um is twofold. One, Ceaușescu was. very famous, especially in Romania, for. having appointed his favorite Labrador. as a general. >> Yeah. >> So, there's a dog theme with that. And. then, he was blamed specifically for the. terrible problem with feral packs of. dogs, what used to be family dogs, roaming Romania, at times like killing.

children and stuff, right? Like it was a. bad problem. And the reason why it. existed was because he had ordered a. bunch of villages bulldozed so he could. build these new agrotechnical centers. And then after he bulldozed them and. before he could build the centers, he. just kind of lost interest in it and. moved on. And so a lot of people lost. their homes, so did a lot of dogs and. that's where they got their feral dog. problem from. >> Yeah. >> And then. I remember this. I've I will never. forget it. This wasn't like it jogged my.

memory. I think about this joke every. I don't know, year and a half I would. say. >> Dennis Miller, yeah. >> Do you remember that? >> Uh I do. I I was I thought Dennis Miller. was very, very funny when he was SNL. news guy. >> Yeah, not bad, but he was never funnier. than when he was on Monday Night. Football. >> Oh god. >> [laughter]. >> Yeah, what was the Ceaușescu joke? >> So yeah, on on Weekend Update on. Saturday Night Live like a couple weeks. after the Ceaușescus were executed and.

the rumor was that they were fed to the. dog, Dennis Miller said that Purina had. released a new um a new product, Puppy. Ceaușescu. >> Yeah. You remember that one? >> What happened next? >> Uh well, I mean, this is the end of 1989. basically and the only communist state. still left west of the Soviet Union was. Albania. And you know, Gorbachev could have. like stepped in. He had a very non. interventionist.

way about him. Um I think he knew also that like. the genie was out of the bottle and like. trying to to bottle it back up is. impossible and resuming the Cold War. again is a bad idea. >> Yeah. >> So he stayed out of it and. you know, it it fell like you said in. just a handful of months. Like right. before the world's eyes. >> Right. And so far we're talking just um. satellite states. Already independent. ostensibly independent nations. took their independence back Um, in.

1989. The USSR is still together and. Gorbachev is not pushing for it to break. up. He's kind of trying to figure out. how to. um, balance these reforms he just. introduced with keeping the USSR. together and it proves impossible for. him. >> Yeah, I mean, he sees what's happening. all around. And uh, you know, he abandoned communism basically. He. voluntarily devolved power. Which again, it just all these years later looks like.

a crazy thing to do. Uh, but just seating all that power when. all they had ever known and all the West. had ever known was just just how. powerful the Soviet Union was in. controlling everything. >> Mhm. >> And to just loosen the knot on all of. that was uh, was just really a a. pretty wacky wacky thing to do. >> Yeah, I mean, especially unilaterally. I. don't know quite enough about modern. Russian history to know who else like. who his advisers and aids were.

>> Yeah, yeah, for sure. >> just seems like this is Gorbachev doing. it himself and I'm sure he did have. help. But, in the end, it was Gorbachev. doing this himself. Like this wasn't. some coalition with other people. Like. he was the head of the Soviet the. Communist Party of the Soviet Union, the. CPSU, the ruling body of the entire. Eastern Block at one point up until very. recently. He used his position as the. head of the CPSU to dissolve the CPSU.

It was as simple as that. And once that. happened, if you don't have the party. who is pushing everybody around and. censoring everything, if they don't. exist anymore, now it's a free-for-all. And that was what he did at the uh, I. think the end of 1990. >> Yeah, he he created a uh, what we would think of as the House of. Reps in their Congress, the People's. Deputies, that was, you know, mostly. kind of uh, fairly elected. Uh, at least compared to what it had. been. He ended like he we said earlier,

you know, he opened it up to other. political parties, which is just going. to completely weaken the grip of. communism. by virtue of doing that. And then he. created an office of president. He. appointed himself president. So it's not. like he was elected, but this was in. March of 1990 and it was a brand new. office. And you know, that was a that. was a big deal to have like an eventual. elected president. >> It was. And. the the [clears throat] reason why he. did that is because he did he dissolved.

the Communist Party, so he couldn't be. the head of the USSR because he was the. head of the Communist Party if the. Communist Party didn't exist anymore. So. now he's like, I call president of the. USSR. He also introduced elections. So each of. the the 15 Republics had what's called a. Supreme Soviet, which was their own. parliament. And he said, "Hey guys, why. don't you start having free elections. with alternative parties legalized and. let's see what happens. I'm Gorby. I'm.

pretty sure that the USSR is going to. want to stay together. And I hope you. didn't put any money on that because he. would have lost big time. >> Yeah, and. you know, we already covered kind of. what Poland kicked off. The Baltics. really helped set a tone as well. Pretty. much immediately Lithuania said, "All. right, we're we're seceding. We're not a. part of the USSR anymore. This is in. March of 1990. Very quickly after Latvia.

and Estonia said, "Yeah, we're going to. secede, too. The Georgians did, the. Armenians did. And this these were, you. know, kind of small time as far as the. the might of the Soviet Union. Like they. could have still had a Soviet Union. after this even with these I guess. secessionists. But it was really. Ukraine. Like Ukraine was a was and is a. very big and powerful country and just. second after Russia. And so, that is A,

that's why, you know, after Ukraine. I think they held a referendum and 90%. of the voters voted for independence. And after Ukraine left, the writing was. really on the wall, but that's also why, if you just want some modern context of. why Putin has uh why Ukraine um. means so much to him personally, is because Putin is is of the old, you. know, as we'll see later when he came. into power, it was on a wave of. nostalgia for the old days. And Ukraine.

leaving was a real big thorn in his side. and just the side of. sort of their history, the Soviet. history. >> Yeah, he said publicly that it's. ridiculous Estonia is an independent. country. Like he does not see these as. independent countries. He sees them as. republics of the Soviet Union that. should be brought back together with. Russia, right? And that's what happened. I mean, this is so 1989, you saw the. satellite states break out of the. Eastern Bloc. And then now, 1990 to. 1991, now it's happening with republics.

Like actual the actual Soviet Union is. starting to break up because the. republic states are now saying we're. independent, we're not part of the USSR. anymore. And now, now everyone's looking. to Russia. Which, being a Cold War kid, I always basically used Russia and the. Soviet Union as interchangeable. But. Russia was a republic of the Soviet. Union, far and away the most powerful. one. That's where the seat of Soviet. government was, but it was still a.

republic just like Latvia and Estonia. Um, and so now everybody's like, "Okay, what are you going to do? You guys going. to try to carry on as your own kind of. Soviet Union? You going to start World. War III? What's going on next?" And I. say, Chuck, that we end this episode. here. >> Yeah, that's the end of part one, everybody. And as per tradition, we. don't do listener mails at the end of a. part one. Uh. I think we just say you know. tune in on Thursday, right? >> Yeah, we we go out in stunned silence.

>> Uh I feel like do do do we usually say. anything? It's been so long. Aren't you. the one that handles this? >> Yeah, yeah, I know, but it's fun to. watch. >> [laughter]. >> So, thank you everybody and we'll be. back with part two of the dissolution of. the Soviet Union. >> That was great, but don't forget to tell. them what our email address is. >> Uh do we have to do that? >> We usually do. >> All right, what is it? I heart uh. stuffpodcast@iheartmedia.com. >> iHeartRadio. >> iHeartRadio. I see, I never say it. This. is your job.

>> You did great. >> All right, we'll see everyone Thursday. >> Stuff You Should Know is a production of. iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from. iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen. to your favorite shows.