The Ballad of High Times Magazine | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW

welcome to stuff you should know a. production of iHeart. Radio hey and welcome to the podcast I'm. Josh and there's Chuck and Jerry's here. too and we're just hanging out feeling. iie hearing stuff you should. know did you ever I. mean I'm going to ask you two questions. did you ever read High Times much and. did you ever subscribe.

I never subscribed I was way too. paranoid to do something like that but. yes I I read it I looked at the. pictures yeah I uh I think for one year. in college I actually subscribed because. and this is High Times magazine we're. talking about everybody the uh I was. going to say notorious but not really. notorious the infamous weed magazine. sure uh but I subscribed for I think a. year because it just seemed like you. know I wanted to have that house like. that had that on the coffee table with. our dress on it and I just thought it.

was like the cool thing to do you know. yeah oh I mean it it was legitimately. cool during a certain period of Life. yeah like if you were 50 doing that it's. kind of sad but if you're like 20 or 19. or 21 or 20 and a half let's say then. yeah I get it watch what you say though. I've learned from recent emails there. may be a 50-year-old out there that. thinks High time is cool that's going to. be very upset yeah it's true but I mean. do they have it on their coffee table I.

don't know I think that's the thing. that's getting me even when I did read. it occasionally I even at the time was. like this is the Articles the way they. were written there were so many puns it. was so kind of corny yeah uh and so it. never felt like as good as I think they. might have thought it was does that make. sense yeah and also one of the other. things too um I was going to say you. could sense it but no it was just really. overt was they had an agenda in every. single one of their articles there was a.

way they wanted you to think which is. their position on it and they would like. mock the other position on it typically. the government's position on like. legalization or something like that yeah. good point over time though I mean it it. became it's an iconic magazine like yeah. for sure pretty much everybody's heard. of High Times if you've never even. picked one up there's a good chance. you've heard of High Times or somebody. referencing High Times it's like it. insinuated itself into American pop.

culture and the reason why it became. iconic is it survived all sorts of drug. culture transitions yeah like like. throughout all these different like ways. of thinking and looking at drugs and. different drugs people were doing High. Times managed to just keep plotting. along and stay relevant I guess is the. best way to put it I didn't think I was. going to say that out loud but here we. are yeah for sure from the uh yeah let's. just get into it then okay no more needs. to be added I agree I agree um so high.

times was uh founded by a guy named. Thomas King. forade and I just realized I didn't look. up any videos of people pronouncing his. name but I'm pretty sure that's how it's. spelled because I was so ready to roll. with Forcade well I've seen the little. um the little French version of the. umlout the little Devil's tale coming. off of the bottom of the sea oh okay and. that indicates a s sound if my high. school French doesn't fail me so I think.

his name was Thomas King. fad all right uh great he looks like if. you look up this guy you know when I. went to look up i' had never seen a. picture of him I expected I didn't. expect to see someone so cool looking uh. I mean he looks like he stepped right. out of the Almond Brothers band or. something I was going to say it looks. like the Almond Brothers satanic advisor. yeah for sure um and if you're thinking. like what do you mean it was like a pot. magazine why didn't you think he'd be. cool it's cuz I usually expect them to. look sort of like a.

gravy uh any like weed activists to be. just decked out in tie dye and kind of. just wearing some sort of wacky handmade. hat and this guy like he looked like he. could jump off of a chopper and like hit. the stage or something you know yeah and. you know that same 50-year-old who's. upset because I said something about. High Times on his coffee table is pretty. much a Wavy Gravy look Al like too yeah. he's wearing his own handmade knit hat. right um so this guy Thomas King fad.

it's a pretty cool name and if it sounds. made up it is made up his real name was. Gary Goodson um and it's not because his. name was Gary Goodson that he ditched. that name in favor of Thomas King fad uh. he was actually a big big time pot. dealer like not only did he sell literal. tons of pot in like the I think starting. in the late 60s and going I well into.

past the time he was um had started. publishing High Times uh he smuggled it. himself he he flew planes and he went to. Mexico he went to Jamaica and he he. smuggled pot tons of pot at a time into. the United States um he there was a. quote I found of his that he said. there's two types of pot dealers those. who need a forklift and those who don't. I need a forklift and like he wasn't he. wasn't joking like he really dealt that. much pot yeah so I mean regardless of.

how you feel about that or him or any of. it uh he wasn't just some guy saying. like hey let's try and make a little. dough off of uh this marijuana people. are smoking like he was kneed deep in. the business right uh this was after. coming out of um seemingly to avoid the. Vietnam draft um a short stint in the. air guard uh where he was discharged. after convincing them that he had. schizophrenia mhm uh and at that point. point he went back to Arizona in Phoenix.

uh changed that name which was his. mother's I'm sorry grandmother's maiden. name and uh you know got into the. underground Zen scene uh you know that. that was a big thing back in the late. 60s because of the ubiquity of like. being able to print your own stuff in a. an office or I don't know if they had. Kinkos back then but uh he got into. those and founded his own first. underground magazine uh called. orus uh which had some politics to it. but it was kind of just a little groovy. Psych thing that covered like music and.

pot and stuff tell them about the the. issue with the peace sign in The Bullet. Hole uh yeah there was a a PE sign on. the cover uh that actually had a a real. Bullet Hole so instead of just drawing a. bullet hole he shot them up yeah he shot. shot bundles the stacks wrapped together. with a Colt 45 handgun to really kind of. Drive the point home I mean it's. creative that is an underground Zen. right there if it has a bullet hole in. that the publisher put there that's.

really something yeah like with real. blood right you said something I think. is really worth pointing out because. there's a whole um Camp of uh people who. tell this origin story of of High Times. and Thomas King fad that it like just. some money-making scheme or just a lark. or something like that this guy in. actuality was a dedicated First. Amendment Warrior like dedicated and. also he was um very committed to the. counterculture not just because he sold.

tons of weed but he genuinely believed. in legalizing marijuana that that was a. crucial thing to do um in the United. States and he put his money where his. mouth is and like you said he started. with underground Zen and then he took up. I saw that he joined or he founded I. couldn't tell which one was correct um. what's basically like an Associated. Press for underground magazines it was. called The Underground press syndicate. and I think it changed its name to.

something else. right uh I'm not sure I always saw it. called ups but we'll just call it that. but it was like I said the AP where you. could you could like get all sorts of. news about drug busts or about you know. some spectacular pot Harvest or. something to do with underground culture. and um you could just print it in your. your local mag and the people in Phoenix. are reading the same thing as the people. in Denver but they don't know that they. just think it's like part of your.

magazine yeah and he eventually worked. his way up to National coordinator for. the underground press Syndicate and. that's where he learned how to run a. magazine basically that's how he learned. about ad deals um distribution uh. printing like efficient printing real. printing uh for a little while and I I I. figure we should probably do something. on Abby Hoffman and the yippies at some. point all right. [Laughter]. as you don't want to highlight Boomers. do you no it's not that I just think.

that guy's gotten more than enough of. his Spotlight but yes it's all right you. know what then forget it okay wow I. didn't think I was gonna talk you out on. that one hey if you want to learn about. Abby Hoffman you're not going to learn. about it here everybody go go steal his. book yeah or re very nice I got that one. uh so he did join up with Hoffman though. and his yippies again if you want to. read about them they were uh a group. that did a lot of like kind of social. pranks and media grab.

um you know activist stuff uh for their. radical causes uh in. 1970 uh forade forade you said yeah. because if you take out the. O and change or no if you change the o. to an A and take out the r you've got. facade like the front of a building. uhhuh so I'm making an educated guess. here I think you're probably right but. I'm just I've been saying it wrong all. day so in my head so it's going to take. a minute that's okay I was reading the. High Times archives and I guess they had.

some like sixth grade trained AI uh scan. and and alter or turn all of their. magazine photos into text and boy they. came up with some creative ways of. spelling that guy's name wow you also. sent me a lot of fun ads for cocaine. paraphernalia dude that was crazy there. is few things that are funner and but. also more shocking than looking at. vintage cocaine paraphernalia ads that. appeared in the likes of High Times and. other magazines yeah and there was one.

that I pointed out to you that was. just like this thing should be in the. Smithsonian it was a um a metal probably. like a goldplated Coke tube so you put. one end in the Coke and you put the. other end up your nose and you sniff. right just in case you didn't know how. to ingest cocaine how that worked um. it's shaped like a old school vacuum. cleaner and so the coke goes into the. bottom of the vacuum cleaner and comes. out the handle which is up in your nose. they call it the hoo instead of the. Hoover like whoever whoever came up with.

this is just that's dedication right. there cuz that's the kind of idea you'd. just be like man we should totally make. this but then the person actually went. and made it and sold it yeah and then. McDonald's hired them to develop their. Happy Meal PR that's right they're like. this guy's really good at these tiny. little uh bubbles exactly and if you. knew what you were doing you could clip. the ends off of all those prizes and use. them as. cook uh all right so in 1970 that's. where we were for. sad uh testified before uh Nixon's.

presidential commission on obscenity and. pornography and this is when he got a. real chance to you know take the. national stage and talk about um well he. the quote was the only obscenity is. censorship uh and it's the first and I I. feel like we talked about this in our. pie in the face episode had to uh but. it's the first incident that we know of. where a protest pie in the face happened. when he pulled out a a cream pie and uh.

face pied Dr um Dr Larson Dr Otto Larson. yeah who was the chairman of that. committee on obscenity and pornography. right yeah and that must be the the. first one I mean it cited as the first. time yeah you know not in a marks. Brothers movie somebody's like let me. make a point with this yeah it's it was. a form of protest that picked up really. quick I mean there's few things you can. do to somebody publicly that is more. disrespectful and humiliating but also. non- inous then ping them in the face.

but he did that he he was called to. testify and not only did he say that OB. um censorship is the true obscenity um. he said he said f censorship and F you. and then he pied the guy in the face and. a congressional hearing this is what he. did this is just the kind of person he. was like he wasn't somebody who just. talked a big game like this guy followed. through on the stuff that he really. believed in yeah and he also let that.

pie sit out the day before in Phoenix so. it was rotten green God yck should we. take a break um sure all right let's. take a break and we'll talk about uh the. beginnings of the magazine right after. this you should. know. [Music]. and stuff you should know.

[Music]. all right so we've introduced our uh. protagonist I guess in the in the First. Act um we we can't and you know Dave uh. helped us put together this article and. he he points out that if you tried to. get I mean you could do a whole article. on this guy and talk about all the all. the wacky things he did over the years. um like concert Festival promo.

uh he he snuck allegedly pipe bombs into. into the 72 Republican convention uh. later on he followed the Sex Pistols. around and co-produced a documentary on. them called DOA yeah so he was a busy. guy doing a lot of stuff but this is. about High Times so uh the origin story. officially for High Times magazine is. that he thought of it uh with his. friends while he was huffing nitrous. oxide uh other people say it might have. been an acid trip but either way the.

early idea was hey how about um how. about a magazine mhm like a marijuana. themed magazine they've got Playboy and. some people say like the initial idea. was just a one-off kind of spoof of. Playboy but uh everyone that worked. there said no no no the idea was always. to have like a real magazine that was. cheeky and fun but also like real. journalism and Tackle real topics about. activism and marijuana and growing it. and all that stuff right exactly um. Michael Kennedy who was um farad's.

personal attorney and then came on as. High Times legal council from like the. beginning until I think 2016 when he. died um he explained it that High Times. was meant to be a way to use free speech. um to teach people how to grow pot and. that like they basically had found a. loophole um thanks to the first. amendment that they could disseminate. all this information as far and as as. they possibly could and in teaching.

people to grow their own pot um that. would eventually change attitudes about. pot and potentially lead to legalization. and as we'll see that they were. successful in that Quest that they. started back in 1974 yeah that's right. and I think I mean I think it absolutely. did that uh I think one of the missions. was um hey let's really convince people. not convince but let's really show. people what the truth is which is that. this is a plant that can be grown like.

plant versus you know uh illicit drug. you know right or illicit drug versus. illicit drug like at the time the. Controlled Substances Act of 1970 had. just been passed thanks to Richard Nixon. and marijuana um which by the way I read. is not at all racist there was a a a. Latino um I think historian who. researched it and he's like yeah that's. actually myth um so good for him uh that.

it was um a schedule one which I think. it's it's still was until like this year. which means that it has according to the. the um government no medicinal value. whatsoever and the high potential for. abuse and both of those are just. absolute lies they're just not correct. they're not true they knew this back in. 1970 and that this this um Controlled. Substances Act kicked off The War on. Drugs. which in retrospect most people now.

agree was misguided in a huge waste of. money and killed a lot of people um and. this was the the era that incarcerated. yes incarcerated it's a big one too um. but it was in this era the beginning of. this era that High Times started to kind. of um uh become not just an idea but an. actuality so they wanted to fight that. which was part of the reason they were. willing to like use mockery or just all. of their articles had a slant to it.

because they felt like they were taking. on liars and that's a legitimate way to. respond to Liars is through mockery. you're really kind of pushing your. agenda against them but that was a huge. um I think impetus for creating High. Times for sure yeah absolutely um so. that very first issue came out summer of. 74 is when it debuted uh had a a 10,000. copy print run and um it didn't really. light the world on fire I guess guess no. pun intended at first it was uh it had.

like an excerpt from a Timothy lirry. novel um of course articles about hemp. and marijuana and how great they thought. it was um there were some interviews and. very importantly they had a uh something. that would you know stay in the magazine. which was a feature called the trans. High Market uh Market quotation which is. a a listing of like hey in Chicago this. is how much a dime bag costs this is how. much it costs in New York this is what. an of weed cost in Phoenix um you know.

what they I guess they still call it. street value which I always thought was. really funny yeah uh but that's that's. what it was and it and it stayed in. there for a long time even though as. we'll talk about later it changed a. little bit over the years uh but this. first issue like I said was not I mean. they did eventually sell out of that. 10,000 but it wasn't through um it was. through a lot of hustling uh it wasn't. like hey it's on your news stand fsad. said here let me get it into head shops. let me send them to record store. apparently drug dealers bought copies.

and gave them away to people um so it. eventually did sell out the two. printings but it was the second issue is. when it really really took off because. of their you know kind of ingenious. promotion well yeah they threw a launch. party at the grar C Park Hotel in New. York and invited like a bunch of media. and just got them messed up like like. like straight. button-down media types journalists um. some like TV news people showed up and.

were like giving brownies and like here. try nitrous oxide and have you ever had. cocaine and I read a quote from Michael. Kennedy the legal council for High Times. he said that um he remembers three or. four lawsuits being brought against High. Times from people who got so wasted for. the first time in their lives that they. they decided to sue the magazine for it. I could see that uh apparently it was. also if not the first one of the first. times um like live television showed.

people doing drugs that was uh one of. the local news stations according to. Rolling Stone um showed people on camera. on the news snorting cocaine and I'm. sure people at home are watching this. just going like what is going on but it. was huge publicity and uh they sold out. their 50 this time 50,000 copy run in. four weeks and it became like a genuine. sensation uh that's when also the second. issue is when they started uh also as an. aage to Playboy magazine their. centerfold but of course their.

centerfold uh was always these these big. beautifully photographed pictures of uh. buds marijuana buds the first one I. would I would take issue with the idea. that it was beautiful it was a 20 PB. brick of. Swag just Brown and compressed and ugly. but at the time it was like their. Premier weed Colombian and just another. aside I'm sorry about this but I wonder. so I've always wondered in hey19 the.

Steely Dan song when he says the quero. gold and the fine Colombian is he. talking about cocaine or is he talking. about pot and I went and researched this. and I stumbled into like a longstanding. argument oh really yeah I read um an. explanation from one person and it. sounded pretty legit they said it's 100%. pot that they were talking about that's. what you called really good pot um back. in the 70s it was Colombian um and it. wouldn't have referred to cocaine in the. first place because at that time most of.

the cocaine came from Peru Colombian. Farmers hadn't really taken up Coco. production and um so most people if you. were aware of cocaine you were like this. is some fine Peruvian you wouldn't say. this is some fine Colombian so it seems. like that guy settled it at least in my. mind Hey that could have been the. original lyric you never know it it. depends on the day probably I guess it. does sure uh have you seen the yach rock. documentary yet on Max no it's pretty. good. like about the people who came up with.

yach rock well I mean the people who. came up with the the term yach Rock are. featured in it but it's about the genre. of music oh okay so like it goes back to. the 70s and. 80s yeah what else would it be. about well there's a there's a band. called yach rock that kicked it all off. and I don't know oh oh oh you mean like. the yach rock review yes no no no no. could have been going with them the term. yach Rock was was came about in the. early 2000s from a web comedy series.

okay uh which I never knew until I saw. this documentary but no it's about just. the you know Christopher Cross and. Michael McDonald and yeah Seals and. Croft all the great people you'd enjoy. it I think have you seen the um limited. series black doves with a I not that. it's a British spy Thriller like eight. or 10 episode say no more show it's. really good I mean you can say more but. I just mean I'm into that kind of thing. no I'm with you no just just go watch it.

I recommend it well see I always say. these things in we recording and then I. don't remember afterward just text me. and be like what was the thing with the. thing I don't know you're talking why. don't you text me right now while I talk. black do I don't have my phone on me. it's on the charger ah I'm sorry that's. all right so mid 7s when High Times. rolls out uh those very first years the. magazine was doing really well but um as. a as a you know sort of a new magazine. but for was not he was on the FBI uh.

surveillance list he was very paranoid. because of the massive amounts of drugs. that he was taking well but also. rightfully so the FBI and possibly even. the CIA was infiltrating the. counterculture and planting informant. and there was a time where he was like. there's an informant here in the High. Time staff and I don't know which one of. you it is there may have been yeah it's. possible like he had reason to be. paranoid at the very least but it was. definitely fueled to extremes through. his drug use for sure yeah absolutely uh.

the the magazine itself was doing well. like I said the staff I mean it was just. I mean if you think like the Lampoon and. Mad Magazine was kind of crazy in their. office like everybody in the High Times. office was huffing nitrous and smoking. weed and snorting blow like as they were. working uh but it was you know it was. creating like some really relevant uh. journalism they were exposing uh you. know government activities as far as the. drug war goes uh like when um putting. paraquat which I cannot help but think.

of big Labowski when I hear that word I. don't remember that part it's when uh. Jeff when the dude called the uh the. real Lebowski a human. paraquat when he was mad I I think he. said human even human paraquat yeah uh. but paraquat was the pesticide that was. um in marijuana Fields under orders from. the. US uh and that this article helped. promote a congressional investigation. um they interviewed the dolly Lama about.

drugs there was Hunter S Thompson and of. course William S burrow doing writing. there was uh Truman capot did a guest. interview with Andy Warhol Bob Marley. was in it like it was really the the. Heyday of that magazine as far as being. like a real like they they achieve what. they wanted to achieve in the first few. years yeah I mean that's like some. heavyweight underground stuff right. there that they got into their Pages for. sure um yeah I think think the latest. thing you mentioned was.

1978 with Truman capot and Andy Warhol. so this is all in like the first four. years that they're cramming all this. stuff in there um so yeah right out of. the gate it was it was very successful. in part Chuck because there was nothing. like this in existence before I mean. aside from some underground Zen that 50. people read before High Times it became. a national magazine a national magazine. about pot and people who love pot and. love drugs and want to see them.

legalized and here's how you do it and. here's how you grow this stuff um and. today it seems like it's not a really. big thing to talk about pot or to find. an article about people smoking pot in. Newsweek or whatever um right and that. is because High Times existed and laid. the groundwork for it yeah I mean they. by year four they had a subscribership. that was about the same as Rolling Stone. magazine yeah that's crazy which is yeah. it's just nuts um in 19. 78 uh forade had previous um attempts at.

suicide uh but he succeeded in November. of 1978 very sadly uh when he was just. 33 years old uh I saw different things. that he you know it was after the death. of a friend uh that had him really upset. and like I said there were previous. attempts so he was a troubled guy uh to. say the least but um they held his. memorial uh at top the World Trade. Center at the windows of the World. restaurant and and uh as Legend has it.

um smoked I think Keith Richard snorted. his dad's ashes supposedly but they uh. rolled up some of forcades ashes in. joints and smoked them as a staff that. always reminds me of that episode from. Six Feet Under where the daughter finds. some actors who are snorting like their. Co um their co-stars. ashes on like cocaine or something like. that and died I can't remember the. daughter's name from Six Feet Under but. she do this and just CLA she just goes.

Bonkers on them like what is wrong with. you uh it's really good it's very. satisfying that's weird for CLA to be. judgy like that she was so morally. offended by what she was seeing that she. just Unleashed on them it was weird for. her but it fit the. moment I wonder if she was upset about. her art class at the time I don't think. she was there yet I think she was. younger yeah uh So High Times this is.

before um as far as the magazine itself. before forade died they did start to. sort of um stray from their mission. statement a little bit as far as uh. coverage of harder drugs they started. writing a lot about cocaine um like in a. big big way they even started including. uh cocaine and and meth and LSD in that. um trans High Market quotation as far as. how much it should cost in different. cities M and it was sort of like I think. the adherence of the magazine even were.

a little bit like hey this is not what I. signed up for like this was a weed. magazine so they kind of got back to the. the weed thing more in the 80s uh. cocaine you know the reputation started. to get a little bit more like hey wait a. minute this stuff is like really. dangerous and there's a lot of violence. attached to it yeah and uh in the trade. and so they really um got back to the. the pot thing again in a big way uh and. they were just getting going again in. the 80s uh back to their mission. statement when the DEA launched.

something called operation green. Merchant in which they really wanted to. to Target um marijuana growth and uh not. the growth of marijuana like growing. marijuana plants and advertisements for. this equipment that was sort of thinly. veiled is like oh no this uh these. lights just help you grow your your. oregano at home or whatever yeah or your. lettuce uh and so operation green. Merchant was to to Target Those ads and. the Publications that. sort of taught you step by step how to.

do this right and so that I mean the the. DEA had tried to take down High Times. many times this is the one they almost. got them with because um it took out. their advertisers their advertisers went. to jail or were run out of business and. all of a sudden a huge amount of High. Times regular advertising dollars just. vanished like overnight because of. operation green Merchant um smoke it. went up even smoke that's right sorry uh. no it was worth it for sure um and they.

I I read a quote they were saying like. this at this point High Times was on the. verge of bankruptcy the de almost got. them but they managed to just kind of. slowly climb their way back uh and and. get back into it in the 90s this is when. I started reading High Times it was. saved by hipop yeah because before Dr. Dre's The Chronic album came out pot was. just viewed as like you know people who. listen to like hippies or burnouts like.

Judah priest fans stuff like that that's. who that's who um uh smoked pot and they. were just as likely to to sniff glue at. the same time right right then The. Chronic came along and it was it just. exploded like overnight pot was totally. in fashion again and a whole new. generation um just got into it like. really. quickly yeah and High Times magazine I. mean they roll right with it I mean. right into the 9s all of a sudden it's.

like oh well now we can put ice cube on. the cover and um you know WR about this. other sort of uh I mean I guess you call. it a subculture that you know we hadn't. been highlighting in the past and you. know beyond making it relevant again I. think they they found out they were. missing out on an entire uh like. readership that they had never targeted. before right for sure um and the one. other impact that it had too is they. helped instruct people how to set up.

your home grow system so as like. hydroponic systems started kind of going. from a thing you had to put together by. going to 50 different stores right to. like you can buy this entire hydroponic. system um through the pages of High. Times They help people learn how to do. that along the way and as a result um. pot just started at at the same time. when it became fashionable again in the. early 90s it got exponentially better. than it had been leading up to that it's.

it was like somebody threw a switch and. all of a sudden pot was what you see or. think of it now like just Sticky Buds. and gorgeous like beautiful flowers and. all that stuff um like that really was. much more potent like that happened at. about the exact same time um as as like. The Chronic and Snoop Dogg coming out. and all that like 9293 is when it really. changed I was talking to my friend uh. clay the other day uh cuz he is who. introduced us to The Chronic when we.

would uh I think I've said this before. but we went over to his house and play. like the Nintendo uh whatever the system. was what was the one back then the um it. was the it wasn't the 64 was it Super. Nintendo 64 was it 64 okay yeah so we go. over there and play Street Fighter and. Mortal Kombat and Clay one day was like. dude listen to this yeah put puts on The. Chronic and Snoop Dogg's voice came out. of the speaker and we were all into. hip-hop at the time but Snoop Dogg he. didn't sound like anybody else at the. time no so when he his voice came out we.

were like who is this guy yeah it's like. oh my God and like how funny and I was. talking to him the other day I was like. how funny back then like would you ever. think that now Snoop Dogg is like this I. mean one of the most famous people in. the world I know the mascot of USA. Olympics from past working with Martha. Stewart it's like I I don't think. anybody saw that coming oh that was a. good documentary too by the way oh I. haven't seen that one yet is it good M. hey I don't know if everyone knows this.

Jerry's been to Martha Stewart's house I. didn't know that did I yeah she told us. a while ago at one point she was uh. doing something with the company I don't. know if whatever happened with that but. Jerry like went to her house and she. said it was a real mess that's crazy I. believe it though there's probably like. felt scraps everywhere and like half. half debone chicken and things like that. just sitting around hodge podge bottles. just spilled all over the place. no perfect uh So High Times back to High.

Times from 88 to 2013 there was an. editor-in Chief named Steph uh Hagar. that ran the the joint and he was God. man I'm not even meaning. to I swear I'm not he ran High Times. magazine uh this is when they I mean. they had always talked about. legalization but this is when they. really really got into writing and. beating that drum about about not. decriminalizing but like legalizing weed. for everybody yeah like they moved the.

that Overton window and made just the. concept of legal weed um something it. they took it from something like a dorm. room conversation to uh this is how you. would do it here's a path to. legalization the States you know yeah. yeah um and they just made it like a a. potential thing like a real concept they. brought it into existence or and helped. push it along I should say they covered. the people who were out there like.

coming into or bringing it into. existence or really thinking about it. but through covering them and exposing. them to millions of people every month. that kind of got the whole idea out. there yeah the normal uh. nml that was it right yeah Thomas farsad. helped bankroll them in their early days. the National Organization for the. rethinking of marijuana legislation. reform of mar mariju. legis realization reform yeah reform I.

went to one of the uh Norm the Atlanta. peut Park used to have in the 90s the uh. the normal pot rally concerts you went. to that I went to one of them one year. when the Black Crows played and it was a. lot of fun it was a great show I I liked. them for a little while back then and it. was really good you were sitting amid a. sea of brass bowls with like the tie Dy. little plastic midds that you would hold. on to yeah well nobody was smoking weed. it was really weird that a little weird. that's so Atlanta so yeah they were. advocating it such that uh there was an.

article in 2013 in the nation that said. High Times magazine may be the most. influential publication of our era so it. wasn't just you know cheeky uh articles. and and pictures of beautiful buds it. was like they were doing real real work. toward uh sea change and it worked yes. and yet at the same time especially in. like the magazine industry they're just. dismissed as you know they're just. stoners they're potheads right um and. they don't care they don't seem to to.

they don't go after Awards they don't. like submit their their um their writers. work for awards and stuff like that they. genuinely don't seem to care about that. kind of stuff because they're off doing. like their own thing and they're. actually doing it but I saw a citation. of how popular culture thinks of High. Times um from they cited a Saturday. Night Live skit featuring Jack Black and. he played High Times top reporter and he. was like um I think get a press. conference or whatever and he would.

stand up to ask a question and then he. would forget what he was going to say. every time yeah of course Oh I thought. it was hilarious I didn't even see no no. it's funny I'm not saying it wasn't I'm. just saying like yeah that's got to be. the sketch is that he he has no memory. right but I could not find it anywhere. and um it's uh I just read about it like. all the other stuff I'm talking about I. I didn't experience it firsthand I've. just read about it I feel like I saw it. back then but I do remember that one of. the issues I had and this had to be from.

the 2000s was uh Tenacious D was on the. cover yeah and I think Jack Black. himself was as well well I mean he is. one half of Tenacious D you mean just. without Kyle he's like let me do one. without that guy. yes uh all right we have been remiss and. not taking a second break MH so we're. GNA do that now and we're going to talk. about what has happened uh over the last. decade or 20 years or so right after. this. [Music].

stuff you should. know and. [Music]. Sh stuff you should. [Music]. know okay Chuck so um we were talking. about how uh Steven Hager guided High. times through like a really prolific ERA.

this is like in the '90s I feel like and. I don't maybe I'm just talking because. that was the the time I came in contact. with it it feels like that's when it. really transitioned into like an iconic. thing that was never really going to go. away even if it went away you know what. I'm saying yeah agreed so uh in 2004 as. I understand it I believe Hagar um. retired in 2003 and so the the. replacement they brought in for. editor-in chief uh as far as I know I. think we've both seen conflicting stuff. right yeah I might have said 2013 too.

which was it was probably 2003 oh gotcha. um okay so Richard Stratton came in as. the editor-in chief and he had bonafides. he served eight years in federal prison. for dealing pot Oh I thought you were. gon talking about uh editor and chief. bonafides sorry no he didn't have those. that was the other thing he was a. journalist he' reinvented himself as a. journalist he I think he had some books. under his his Bel he wasn't like a bad. pick he made a bad pick yeah uh he was.

very good friends with Norman maor and. in fact one of the reasons he went to. prison is he refused to implicate Norman. maor in his pot dealing activities and. when he became editor-in-chief of High. Times he hired Norman maor's son John. Buffalo maor who was 25 at the time yeah. hired him as executive editor and um. yeah I like his name John Buffalo mailer. had zero publishing experience. whatsoever and the whole thing it was.

just this is a bad time for High Times. yeah it was illc conceived uh I think. they didn't quite know where to go after. the um sort of it's not like the hip-hop. era ended any you know mention of of. weed or anything like that but it was it. was sort of past that you know. everything changes from decade to decade. culturally and they didn't quite know. what to do I think uh so they said hey. why don't we do this why don't we try. and sort of change the image of the. magazine and become just more of a sort. of a a cultural.

magazine uh like essentially let's stop. writing about weed exclusively and let's. really stop writing about weed almost. altogether and that lasted for about a. year uh they they did not like that the. readership was like what are you doing. the whole point of this magazine is that. it's high times and it's not you know. about Freedom it's about freedom to. smoke weed specifically and grow it. specifically and like I said about a.

year later uh in fact it was one year. later I think they were like we really. screwed up here and so they went back in. 2005 uh with a big cover that said the. buds are back uh and 30 pages of pot. piics on the inside and everyone was. like oh thank God and it was one of. their best selling issues of all time. yeah and they brought um Steve Hager. back in to kind of write the ship again. ah okay and he did um like this times. started the idea that we should legalize.

marijuana worked at it ceaselessly for. decades and finally was still around. when the the that change started. happening and states started talking. about actually legalizing pot not. decriminalizing but legalizing pot like. you said not just for medicinal purposes. but hey if you're an adult and you want. to smoke pot go ahead and smoke pot. you're not going to get in trouble. because we don't have any laws against. it anymore like this was starting to. happen and High Times was right there.

totally poised to just just step up and. accept its Kudos and its um huge like. rise to prominence as this new changed. culture around pot was about to just. explode and around this time private. Equity got involved and everything went. down the toilet yeah I mean that's the. irony of this whole thing is right when. they achieved all that is when they they. they tanked uh because of what's called. the green Gold Rush uh Wall Street of. course anytime they're like oh wait a.

minute somebody's making money over. there doing something mhm uh a lot of. money well how can we get involved and. that's exactly what happened they. started investors started throwing money. money at every cannabis startup you. could think of uh as states were rolling. out uh legalization and making tons and. tons of money and so they realize hey. this High Times magazine is just sitting. there it's a very recognizable brand um. the Magazine's okay their websites are. right but they make like 80% of their. dough from What's called the Cannabis.

Cup which is I think it started out as a. smaller thing in Amsterdam but then. became like the official High Times. Cannabis Cup in the United States in. 2010 which is a a you know a weed. growing competition so like bring in. your new strains of like exotic cross. breeds and and and like high potency uh. Buds and you can win the the Cannabis. Cup and it's a big deal it received a. lot of coverage they were uh they did. concert they did festivals they did. trade shows and it was you know a big.

money maker so I think they were like. hey we can invest in High Times uh we. can open up a casino in Vegas maybe we. can they bought up a dozen dispensaries. and made them High Time smoke shops uh. they talked about delivery services and. all they talked about an IPO for a while. which never happened yeah uh but all of. this stuff um a lot of these big deals. never came to fruition and so they found. themselves eventually uh a $100 million.

in debt as these deals fell apart after. going through just a string of CEOs. which is never it's always a bad sign. for a company you know when you have. that kind of CEO turnover yeah and a lot. of those dispensaries closed and in the. in the middle of the boom of the real. marijuana industry High Times was. struggling and basically dead again. because private Equity got involved. that's right there's a really good. itical article called The Long fall of. High Times by Ben shreer yeah and it's.

really worth the read it's very long but. it's good uh and um that article puts. the blame on Adam Len who uh ran Ora. Capital he's the one who came in as the. private Equity guy and made all of these. terrible decisions did Shady stuff like. the announcements for you know some of. these business ventures like they would. announce them publicly and then the. other company involved would have to. come out publicly and be like they. haven't even approached us about this.

what they just said is not true so. that's not a good thing to do um that. IPO was a big deal too because if you. have investors the they want you to go. public and then they can really start. making money off the company uh he just. couldn't get it together to get the IPO. out the door yet that didn't keep them. from selling pre-sale shares at $11 a. piece to High Times readers promising. them they were getting in on the bottom. floor before the IPO even happened just.

Shady stuff and so this lasted for just. a couple of years before the um magazine. the whole brand went into receivership. meaning that there was a counterpointed. like person who was in charge of their. assets who would try to figure out how. to help them get out of bankruptcy or. how to help them get out of a hole. without going into bankruptcy while at. the same time paying off their creditors. and I guess it didn't really work. because in I guess May of last year the. receiver um said hey we're going to have. a fire sale everybody step up get out.

your checkbooks let's do this thing yeah. uh 7 million bucks we'll get you the. magazine the Cannabis Cup um the. dispensaries that we still have open. nobody came forward which is uh shocking. uh I think the most shocking thing to me. and I'm going to say this publicly I'm. going to call out publicly even why. hasn't Snoop Dogg and and freaking. Martha Stewart they they would miss $7. million they wouldn't even know it's.

gone right why have they not bought this. brand because that sort of public like. purchase with those two names or even if. it's a Snoop Dog but Martha Stewart. would add a funny sort of cache to it. yeah like it would all of a sudden be a. relevant thing again and I don't know. it's just it's shocking that nobody came. forward to buy it I hope that that ends. up being like your shark NATO thing or. like the Jared from Subway thing or like. your Hugh Jackman great showman thing I. hope that comes true thanks to you maybe.

somebody who knows Snoop hears this and. they're like hey Snoop he may not even. know it's for sale you know it's. possible he's he's been on the cover a. bunch but he might not be paying. attention you know yeah they could say. Snoop High Times is for sale you should. buy it and he would say for. snizzle. right so um I read a great quote from. pot Culture magazine um so high times is. just stopped they they put out their. last published issue in.

2024 and the fact that they were still. putting out a print magazine actually. says how strong the brand was at one. point because they went right through. that time where magazines were just. folding print anything was just folding. left and right and yet they still had. the print magazine and they had a pretty. um heavyweight um uh website too high. times.com had their whole archive all. the magazines on it um and yet the. website hasn't been updated since June. 2024 the last issue was September 2024.

if you go on to the site none of the. images work they're all gred out. rectangles very disappointing and pot. Culture magazine put it that the once. Mighty High times.com is gone reduced to. an error message that is reminiscent of. finding your favorite uncle dead on the. floor I saw that quote I don't think. anybody could have put it better than. that yeah for sure uh I also just. realized. as with the ultimate 50-some year old. white guy I think it would probably be.

for shizel and not for schizzle cuz for. sure would be for shizzel right sure it. would be for sure but I think that the. things have evolved so much that that. you're fine okay okay good um so yeah. Snoop Martha please do buy High Times. because the it's such an ignominious and. is that is that the right word or was I. just deletrius to my own vocabulary. minus ignominious ignoramus I think is. what you meant no uh such a um unclassy.

end yeah it's just like that magazine. deserves better than that yeah maybe. Jack Black he's not going to miss seven. million bucks maybe maybe I mean he. might miss it for the afternoon but then. he would say but I've got this magazine. now no I'm with you I think Martha. Stewart has that much laying under imp. piles under her hodge podge bottles that. you were talking about you know yeah. you're probably right uh okay well. that's it about High Times uh if you. want to know more about there's tons of.

tribute articles all over the web to. read that are kind of fun uh and while. you're doing that it's time for listener. mail uh yeah this is from Rosal Le and. it's uh just a very kind sort of gentle. reminder which is always nice to hear MH. uh hey guys it's taking me a while to. get this into words and I hope it comes. across with care it does but why do you. suck so much yeah exactly as a woman in. science who does. uh science every day I just want to. point out that technicians are still.

scientists in your episode on chemistry. sets you rightly pointed out all the. sexism in the past and uh and present. and how Sciences presented to girls. versus boys but you also feed into it a. little bit when you said that girls were. funneled into technician jobs instead of. being the scientist there are a lot of. ways to be a scientist and technician is. definitely one of them that's like. saying that nurses aren't healers like. doctors are uh a more accurate. description is that women were and are. funneled into technician and now. communication jobs The Sciences and men. to the professors and principal.

investigators uh it is better than it. has ever been I have to say but Academia. still hasn't figured it out among other. things and that uh I'm glad to know that. Rosalie and that's from Rosalie malti. that was a great reminder we love love. love being reminded or when it's pointed. out to us that yes we fed into something. that we were just totally unaware of. especially if it's unjust you know yeah. technicians are scientists of course. they are that's right that should be a. teach featured um maybe it will be well. thanks a lot Rosie we appreciate that.

big time and if you want to be like. Rosie and send us an email like that you. can send it off to stuff podcast at. iheartradio.com. [Music]. stuff you should know is a production of. iHeart radio for more podcasts myart. radio visit the iHeart Radio app Apple. podcasts or wherever you listen to your. favorite shows. [Music].