The Assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. Part II | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW

Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a. production of iHeart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm. Josh, and there's Chuck, and this is. part two of our two-parter on the. assassination of Martin Luther King Jr. That's right. Uh where we left off with. part one was the uh the funeral of. Martin Luther King Jr., And we're going. to pick up now with the investigation in. the manhunt. And while we're talking.

about that, we might as well go ahead. and say it's still perhaps um the. largest manhunt in FBI history, depending on who you ask. Cost a couple. of million bucks in those dollars. Um. 3,500 investigators. And it was all just. a bit awkward because as we all know, or. maybe some people don't know this, but. the FBI had been um tracking Martin. Luther King Jr. since uh 1956. So for 12. years uh under a program called racial.

matters uh racial matters and then and I. don't think they meant like matters like. race matters. No, I think they meant the. other way like the matters of race, right? Uh and then um in 1963 they. started tapping his bones under the. communist infiltration program and Jay. Edgar Hoover was um still around at the. time because it seems like he was there. for 300 years. Yeah. And he didn't like. Martin Luther King Jr. He called him the. most notorious liar in the country. publicly at a press conference because. King had been criticizing the FBI.

because they, you know, weren't. protecting the civil rights of black. Americans. And so Hoover didn't like the. guy, yet he was the guy kind of at the. top of this huge investigation. I read. um Martin Luther King's cool response to. Jay Garhoover calling the most notorious. liar. Get bent. No, no. He said um uh that Jay Edgar. Hoover must be under tremendous pressure. to have said such a thing like he was.

sympathetic. That's talk about the high. road man. Yeah, for sure. All right, so. the FBI gets a hold of that 30 odd six. rifle um that was determined to be the. murder weapon. uh they couldn't actually. conclusively link that bullet to the gun. because the the shell had been. fragmented, but uh it was the same. caliber and everybody was like, "Come. on, it's it's the gun. Can we all just. agree to that?" How many rifles do you. guys have just laying around in Memphis. that day? Yeah. Dumped minutes after by.

a guy who sped away in a Mustang, right? Hundreds of just 100 feet or so away. from the murder scene. So, um, yeah, they couldn't conclusively. link that to the gun, but they were able. to trace the serial number and they. traced it back to a sporting goods store. in Birmingham, Alabama called. Aerrowarine. Supply. And um, they confirmed that it. had been purchased just a few days. before MLK was assassinated. Yeah. Along. with a a scope and uh, a gentleman who.

said that he was going hunting on a. hunting trip with his brother. Okay. Uh because yeah, you have to you. have to be like that. That's believable, right? When you're buying a gun, you got. to have a cover story. Yeah. And under. an alias under the name Harvey Lommire, right? So, um two weeks after the. killing, they they figured out that the. the prints on the gun matched those of a. guy named James Earl Ray. Uh, and at the. time, James Earl Ray had been an escape.

convict from a state prison in Missouri. for basically a year. He'd been on the. run. So now we had a a suspect and we. had photos and they started circulating. it around to people who had um. putitively interacted with James Earl. Ray, including the guy at the Aeromarine. Supply Store who um sold him the gun. Yeah. So um he was like, "That's the. guy." There were witnesses uh we. mentioned earlier in part one uh at the.

Bessie Brewer boarding house. They also. looked at pictures and they were like, "Yeah, that's the guy we saw running. away." And they went to the the hotel. clerk and or the boarding house clerk. and they said, "Yeah, this guy signed. in. That's him for sure." Under the name. John Willard. Uh so he had multiple. aliases. Oh Uh, and they that portable. radio that they found in the bundle um. had a scratched out ID number and they. eventually figured out that that was his. his uh his prison radio. It had his uh. his inmate number on it. So he he.

escaped prison was like I'm taking my. radio. Yeah. It seems pretty conclusive. that James Earl Ray would have been the. shooter, right? Yeah. So they issued an. indictment for his arrest for the murder. of Martin Luther King Jr. on May 7th, a. couple months after or no, a month after. MLK was murdered, uh, and an. international manhunt began. I know the. FBI was definitely concentrating on the. United States, but they didn't rule out. the possibility that he had started to. go abroad, and so they issued it far and.

wide, a wanted poster with his um his. data and his photos on it. So, the FBI. started tracking his movements. He's got. all these aliases. Uh in that year that. um he was on the lamb after the. shooting. Uh he was into politics for a. little while. Uh supporting um Alabama. Governor George Wallace uh his. presidential campaign. He was in LA for. a little while. He took dance lessons. He went to bartending school. He lived. in Mexico for like a month or so trying.

to become a pornography director under. the name Eric Salvo Galt. Uh that didn't. work out. So he left Mexico, came back. to the states, and apparently in like. the month or so before the. assassination, uh, he had been stalking. King and had followed him from Atlanta. to Memphis. Yeah. So it seemed like the. the month before he murdered Martin. Luther King Jr., he suddenly got that. idea in his head because none of his. movements suggested that he um had even.

focused on Martin Luther King at all up. to that point. Um, after the. assassination, um, James O Rey fled to Toronto. It's. eventually where he landed first. I. think you mean Toronto. Sorry. I'm. sorry, Toronto. I I know that, too. I. know. Thanks, Chuck. Um, so at the time, apparently, if you were an American. criminal, um, in Canada, they were very, very trusting at the time. They.

basically said, "If you uh swear that. you're a Canadian citizen, you give us. your name, we'll send you a passport.". And that's what crooks would do. They. would go to Canada when they were on the. run. They would look up old newspapers. at like the library and find birth. announcements um from about the same. time that they were born, finding people. who were their age. And they would get. their name. They would get their. mother's maiden name sometimes. And. apparently you didn't even need that. You just fill out this form, say your. name, say, "Yes, I swear I'm a a.

Canadian citizen." And mail off for a. passport, which would be mailed back to. you toot sweet. And now you had a a a. fraudulent but official and legitimate. passport that you could use to travel. the world with under a new alias. Yeah. And this time his alias was uh cuz you. know it was a real dude. In fact, the. guy was a cop. Pretty ironic. But his. name was uh Raymond George. Uh I guess. Sny D. I heard Snade from somebody once.

I don't know if that was definitive. Okay. Well, it's good that we spelled it. out because that'll come into play in a. in a minute here. Mhm. Um but from. Toronto, he went to London. Uh he was. actually in London a couple of times. He. passed through London on his way to. Lisbon after that first flight from. Canada. And he was going to Lisbon. because he was hoping to go to Africa um. before the murder. And then afterward, his long-term plan was to go to. Rhodesia, uh, now Zimbabwe, because in. 1965, a 5% white minority there had.

assumed independence from the UK, and he. was like, I'm going to go go to Rhdesia, and I'm going to uh integrate into this. small white minority and become a paid. mercenary. Yeah. So, I mean, he went to. Lisbon hoping to secure passage uh to. Africa. Um, and while he was there, he's. like, "I've got a great idea. Surely. that people are on my trail. The feds. are on my trail now, and they might even.

know my alias. So, I need a new alias. I'm going to go to the Canadian. consulate here in Lisbon. I'm going to. tell them that they misspelled my name. on my passport." So he went there and he. told the Canadian consulate there that. his last name actually is spelled with. an A, not a D. And they're like, "Okay, whatever. Here's your new passport with. your last name spelled correctly." And. he had a new alias, uh, Raone George. Snaya instead of Snade. So there was one. letter change and apparently that.

satisfied James Earl Ray that he had a. new alias now. Yeah. And we'll get to. who Rey was a little bit, but the one. takeaway from everything that I've read. is he was not a very smart person. Not a. criminal mastermind. He was no brain. from Pinky in the Brain. No. Uh also. because he did not throw that first. passport away and that was would be his. undoing. Um he like it like like we. said, he could not secure that passage. to Africa. So he went back to London to. figure out what his next move was. Uh he.

called a this is a sort of a weird part. of the story. He called a um reporter. named Ian Culvin at the Daily Mail's. foreign desk and I don't know if this. guy had written articles about it. mercenaries or something. I don't know. either. That's the only thing I can. figure out because he called this random. reporter and said, "Hey, you got any. contacts for these mercenaries?" Um. Coven was like, "No, but if you're I. guess if you're looking to get into that. kind of thing, check into Brussels cuz. that's where you might have better.

luck." It's a very strange little side. part of this story for sure. It really. is. So, James O Re was like, "Thank. thank you much." And and um starts. booking a flight to Brussels from. London. Uh and it was in London on his. way to Brussels that he finally got. nabbed. But not because somebody noticed. his mug shot or wanted poster and saw. that he was him, but because he had. those two Canadian passports and he had. them in the same wallet. Yeah. Two. different names. Yes. and the passport.

checker noticed that he had two. passports and um asked him about it and. I guess a cop was standing nearby and. stepped over and was like, "Hey, why. don't you join us in the back room? We've got some questions for you." And. that was it for uh Ramon George Snaida. Yeah. Uh he was quickly identified as. James Earl Ray. He had a 38 caliber. pistol tucked in the back of his pants. going to board a plane. You could do. that back then cuz they didn't even have. metal detectors. Yeah. As long as you.

didn't shoot it off because you were. excited during takeoff, right, in on on. in the plane, then they didn't really. care. Yeah. So, uh, he was confirmed as. James or Ray. He was taken into custody. and on July 19th was flown back to the. US to stand trial. And that seems like a. great place for our first break. [Music].

Okay. So, James Earl Ray's been um taken. into custody and he's flown back to the. United States on July 19th to stand. trial and the whole world is watching.

Mhm. They want to know why the man who. assassinated Martin Luther King Jr. did. that, why he murdered MLK, what was the. point, what was the reason. They also. wanted to know if he had been working. with other people because from the. outset um people were the public was. just openly skeptical that there was. some conspiracy that that had resulted. in MLK's murder. And um the world got. none of that because James O Rey plead.

guilty uh instead of going to trial. And. there was a paper reporting on the the. case who was at this hearing where he. plead guilty and said that it brought a. shockingly swift ending to the case. And. everybody was like what just happened? Uh and and that was essentially that. there was no um trial ever and there. there were no facts presented. So it was. just like yep I did it. send me to jail. Yeah. His uh attorney at the time, uh.

Percy Foreman said, "Well, you know, if. you go to a jury trial, you're probably. going to get a death sentence uh because. of uh you know, because of the murder. and and its impact on the country.". Basically, like you're not going to. avoid the electric chair. So, uh if you. plead guilty, you can get the maximum um. life sentence uh which is 99 years in. prison. Mhm. And uh in Tennessee. and he. said, "Uh, that's that's probably the. the right route to take." So, Ray took.

it. It was a 2-hour affair in court. No. one got the satisfaction of hearing any. of the evidence. Um, it also meant he. wouldn't be eligible for parole for 30. years, whereas, uh, if he had gotten a. life sentence and not the 99, he could. have gotten out in 12 and a half, right? Um, but just 3 days after he pleaded. guilty, he recanted and tried for the. rest of his life to get a new trial. Uh, tried to escape. He did escape. Uh, in. fact, if you listen to our Barkley. Marathon episode, uh, he escaped. successfully for three days in.

1977. Uh, and was picked up in Brushy. Mountain where that race takes place. Uh, but he would eventually die in. prison in 1998 at the age of 70. Uh, which would also been the year he was. first eligible for parole. Yes. Uh, and you said earlier that we. were going to talk a little bit about. James Ray and his criminal career. That's right. So he was born in Illinois but mostly. grew up in Missouri and he was the. oldest of nine kids and his f his family.

was impoverished. His father was a. convict himself who didn't work very. often. Uh his mother was as James Earl. Ray put it a woman of very limited. intelligence, barely able to communicate. and she also drank very heavily. Um, and. there was a report card from grade. school that said his attitude toward. regulations was that he violates all of. them. Uh, this was him as a kid and he. didn't improve very much as an adult. He. dropped out of high school at 16, worked. for a while and then he joined the army.

Yeah, he joined the army. Um, yeah, he. dropped out of high school at 16. King. was in college at 15. So, just contrast. the two situations. Um, in 46 he joined. the army uh after being laid off from. his civilian job uh in the army. He was. charged with uh drunkenness with. breaking arrest. He served 3 months in. the army clink uh hard labor for that. He was discharged uh less than honorably. for quote ineptness and lack of. adaptability to military service in.

1948. So just a couple of years in the. army and then was a drifter and a and a. petty criminal. Um he was in and out of. jail over and over. Yeah. Um and he was. serving a 20-year sentence for robbery. in Missouri. Uh he started it in 1960. when he broke out in 1967 and began that. year on the lamb that culminated in the. assassination of MLK. Yeah. And you. know, it was it was really a 20-year.

prison sentence for everything. Uh cuz. it was a pretty small like robbery at. Kroger. uh that wouldn't have gotten a. 20-year, but he had other armed robbery. convictions. He had mail fraud. convictions. um and escape attempts. So, it was like, "Hey, we're just going to try and put. you away for a while." Right. Uh and if. you're curious how he escaped, he hid in. a bread delivery truck that was leaving. the prison. I heard I heard that, too. Yeah. You would have found me eating. loaves of bread, too, with your little.

portable radio. Prison radio. That's. right. Just snapping my fingers with a. mouthful of bread. Um, so his criminal. history, just because you're a lifetime. criminal doesn't mean you're good at it. Yeah. And James Earl Ray is an excellent. example of that. Um, Time magazine. described him back in. 1977 as a bungling petty gunman and. burglar whose life of crime has mostly. been one fizzle after another. And they. weren't lying because some of his. greatest hits that they went on to site.

was that at one um crime scene he. dropped identification. He dropped his. ID. Yeah. One hold up uh in a neighborhood. He got. lost drive and as he was making his. getaway, ended up back driving back into. the neighborhood where he just robbed. somebody and was caught by the police. who'd arrived on the scene by then. Yeah. Who were apparently surprised. I. imagine they were like, "Oh, wait a. minute. Is that him coming back?" Yeah. Get a load of this guy. Uh, another time.

he came back uh to to re-robed. uh re-entered the window to to get more. stuff. That is a no no. That is crime. 101. Yeah. Like get out of there. I'm. not a criminal, but I would get out of. there. So even when he was in London too. when he was on the run um after. assassinating MLK, he carried out not. one but two bungled robberies. It's. crazy. One was a bank and he managed to.

only get a 100 pounds from a bank. Yeah. The other was a jewelry store where he. got nothing because the owner knocked. the gun out of his hand and pressed the. alarm. So James Oay ran away. And the. these are the Londoners. They're not. used to knocking guns out of hands. And. this guy still managed to do it. That's. right. You know, yeah, he just was not a. very good criminal even though he tried. it over and over again. And he was. successful. I mean, like he did. successfully rob people and break into. places and all that. But if you put it. all together, um he didn't have like a a.

violent criminal rap sheet. He was just. kind of this petty criminal. Well, that's how he supported himself in life. as as a criminal who went from that to. murdering one of the most important. Americans in history in one single. action seemingly overnight. And a lot of. people say that just doesn't add up. Yeah. And you know, we don't lend our. show and ourselves to conspira we're not.

conspiracy-minded generally. No. Um but. you don't have to be to um to look at. this and say he probably didn't act. alone. It just doesn't add up like you. said. So um there have been. congressional committees over the years. There have been uh family members of. Martin Luther King Jr. that said, "Yeah, this was this was part of a conspiracy.". Um there's never been any uh solid. agreement on what kind of conspiracy and. who else was behind it. Mhm. Um, and. we're not going to get into the. nitty-gritty of all the there's a lot of.

there's a lot of um discounted stuff and. stuff that you rabbit holes you. shouldn't even go down. Yeah. Uh, so. we're not going to get into those, but. we are going to talk about um the the. legit idea of a conspiracy and and who. could have been involved like um for. real. Yeah. Because again, how did this. petty criminal plan an assassination. that he successfully carried out and. then also panic in a panic like dropped. this the murder weapon and ran off in a. place where it would be found within a.

minute or two? Yeah. Um where did he get. the funding that he would need to. support himself for a year on the lamb. and then to travel abroad um to flee. after the assassination? Um, these are. just a few of the questions people have. come up with. And the the obvious. solution is that he had help in some. way, shape, or form. But another really. big question that I think that a lot of. people overlook is why? Like why did he. murder Martin Luther King Jr.? He wasn't.

known as a fanatic. This he was a racist. and like we said, he supported George. Wallace for his segregationist. presidential bid, but he wasn't he. wasn't like a fanatic. And also like he. didn't have any particularly deep. emotions one way or another for MLK. He. just was his murderer. And this just. does not make a lot of sense. Yeah. So. after uh he retracted that confession. just days after um his conviction, he. started saying, "I was set up and I was.

set up by a guy named Raul." So, uh, supposedly he had a lot of interactions. with this RA guy, but, um, he went from. describing him as a Latino with blonde. hair to a French Canadian with red hair. Nobody ever witnessed him with anyone. that looked like either one of those. people. Um, a lot of people think there. is no Raul at all. Um, but he still. could have had help, you know, from. someone else. Yeah. So, you mentioned. congressional committees who that. concluded that there was some sort of.

conspiracy. One of them was uh House. Select Committee on Assassinations in. 1978. They said that there was a. likelihood of conspiracy in the. assassination of Dr. King, but they. didn't think it like Raul was involved. or anything like that. They it was much. more pedestrian and mundane and in my. opinion than much more likely uh as far. as the conspiracy theories go. But they. put it on two um prominent but shady St.

Louisans. I'm pretty sure that's what. you call people from St. Louis. Uh, one. was a former stock broker who became a. motel owner. His name was John R. Kaufman. The other was a patent lawyer. in town named John H. Sutherland. And. both of them were dead by the time the. committee hearings were held in 1978. Um, but they they supposedly put a. bounty on MLK's head and James Earl Ray, whose brother was a tavern owner in St. Lewis at the time heard about this.

bounty and decided that he would go. ahead and murder MLK and collect on the. bounty. And I also saw that he probably. believed that as a white man he would. never be convicted of murdering a black. man in the South. And even if he did, George Wallace was definitely going to. win the 1968 election and George Wallace. would pardon him. So if you put all that. together, it really seems like a pretty. legitimate um explanation for the whole. thing. Yeah. Um, as far as uh Martin.

Luther King Jr's widow, Ketta Scott. King, she was, um, she always thought. the FBI might have had something to do. with it. Um, she knew that they had been. surveiled and their phones had been. tapped. Um, she thought they, you know, were a a possible um, you know, bad. actors. Uh they even, you know, this is. sort of startling and in fact it. startled the country in the late '9s. U. but they came around to believing James. Or uh Dexter Scott King, one of his sons.

visited James or Ray in prison. Uh they. pushed for him to get an appeal. Uh he. apparently asked him point blank like. did you kill my father? And James Earl. Ray said no I didn't. No. And then uh. apparently he also said but like I like. I say sometimes these questions are. difficult to answer. Sometimes you have. to make your own evaluation and maybe. come to the conclusion I think that. could be done today but not 30 years ago. which is none of that makes any sense. No, because it it it isn't difficult to. say you either did or you did not commit.

murder. Yeah. But um as shocking as this. meeting was, uh they they got on board. and said, I I don't think you did this. I think you were py. I think you were. set up. And um a lot of Americans were. um confused and a lot were offended. uh. Pulitzer Prizewinning uh biographer of. Martin Luther King Jr., David Garrow, uh. said that Dexter King's support was um. of Ray was egregious and embarrassing. Yeah. Um I say we take a break and we. come back and and kind of get stick with.

the the late 90s because they were kind. of the 90s were a big decade for. conspiracy theories and the MLK. assassination. How about that? Yeah, let's do it. [Music].

So, there's an attorney named named. William Pepper who is a very conspiracy. theoryminded attorney. Uh he became. James Or's attorney eventually and he's. not someone that a lot of people thought. a lot of uh in his career. Um he'd been. described as disgraceful by some uh the. most gullible person I've ever met by.

someone else. Uh he. was readily and willing to just uh. malign innocent people to get his. theories out there. Uh and I remember. this happening. I didn't watch it, but. on the 25th anniversary of uh King's. Murder, so I guess somewhere in the mid. '90s, um he sold. HBO um on producing and uh broadcasting. a mock trial TV special of James Ray in. which Ray was acquitted by the mock. jury. Yeah. And so that was, you know,

that's crazy, but it's a mock trial on. HBO and it's a mock jury. It doesn't. mean anything. It just basically. promoted William Pepper and his. theories. Um, but after that special was. aired, conspiracy theories about the MLK. assassination got a real boost because a. guy named Lloyd Jawers came forward. He. said he was inspired to come forward by. the series and come clean essentially. after all of these years. and he owned a. tavern in Memphis called Jim's Grill,

which just happened to be located. beneath Bessie Brewer's boarding house. where the fatal shot that killed MLK was. fired from. And Lloyd Jawers said that. he was part of a big giant conspiracy to. murder MLK that included the Memphis. police, the um FBI, the mafia, uh. himself, and some other just, you know, tangential players who were all coming.

together to kill King uh in order to. collect on a bunch of money. Uh he Lloyd. Jawer said that he was him just him. alone was offered $100,000 to basically. project to manage the the contract. killing. Yeah. I feel like if you're. floating a a conspiracy about an. assassination, if you just throw out. like local cops and mafia Mhm. then. you're probably halfway there. Yeah, for. sure. Yeah. Oh, definitely. That'll get. everybody's attention. Uh so Martin.

Luther King Jr.'s family sued him for. wrongful death in civil court. Um, again, this is not a a criminal trial or. anything. Um, they didn't want money. They wanted a hundred bucks. They. basically wanted to get all these claims. heard in court and have it, you know, public, you know, out in public. And, um, they, this is sort of shocking as. well, the family was represented by that. attorney, William Pepper, who had. represented James Hoy. Uh the jury did. decide that Jouers and others including.

government agencies had been responsible. for King's death. So they actually won. that civil trial. They did. And uh I I. read two things. I read that Dexter King. basically said like we we did this so. that you know to prove that the. investigation needed to be reopened. And. then he also said regardless of whether. it gets reopened or not, this is like. the period on the sentence for us. like. this this just basically supports. everything we've always said, right? Um. the Justice Department, their civil.

rights division had simultaneously. launched an investigation into Lloyd. Jawers's claims. I guess they seemed. legitimate enough, but also um this. investigation entailed claims made by a. former FBI agent named Donald Wilson. And Wilson said that he had been I guess. he had been one of the people who had. searched through the Mustang that uh. James Oay got away in and that he had. found some papers in this Mustang that. um had info about the uh JFK.

assassination. Okay. I think um Donald. Wilson's like, "How can I get people to. listen JFK?" Uh he also said that the. name Raul was mentioned in it as well in. these papers. And so the justice. department starts looking into it and. they concluded in a report in 2000 that. um this is all just kind of BS to. paraphrase. Yeah. Basically he he was. out for a book deal is what they. concluded. Um Percy Foreman, the.

original attorney for James or Ray, uh. as far as he was concerned, he thought. Rey acted alone. uh um his biographer. William Bradford Huey um also said yeah. I think he acted alone and he was trying. to just um become a bigger criminal and. like impress larger criminals uh that he. was a valuable guy to work with right. yeah uh there was an investigative. reporter too who investigated James Ray. as investigative reporters do his name. was George McMillan he interviewed a.

bunch of um Ray's fellow prisoners from. the Missouri prison that he broke out of. in 1967 seven and they were like, "Yeah, he was a huge drug dealer in prison. Like, he was rolling in it." One of them. claimed that he was able to to smuggle. out. $6,500 from the prison. Yeah. And in. today's money, that's about $60,000. Yeah. So, that alone, if true, satisfies. that really big question about how could. he's this petty criminal, support.

himself for a year on the lamb. But 60K. can go a long way, especially if you're. committing other crimes. Um, but yeah, it sounds like he blew a lot of it on. bartending school and dance lessons. Still, you could live for a year on 60K, no problem. Yeah. And he had to buy some. of that camera equipment because he. tried to be a porn director in Mexico. That's right. you know, uh, so I guess. we're at the point now where we can kind. of talk a little bit about, you know, had the sliding doors gone another way. and had, um, that march gone forward on.

April um, 4th and maybe James or Ray. doesn't get that shot, um, what would. have happened had King been around. Um, I guess we'll talk at first about what. happened um, since that that did occur. was that he was an instant martyr. um um. you know, for all practical purposes, he. was he was fainted in that moment. Mhm. Uh it was just so sudden, it was so. violent. And um the polling, you know, we talked about polling in episode one. about how white Americans felt about. him. Um in 1966, um people pled uh 36%.

of all Americans had a favorable opinion. of King, 27% of white America. And in. 2011, um, that number had gone to 93% of. white Americans had a favorable view of. King and 81% of all American adults said. he had a positive impact on the US. So. that's from 66 to 2011. But that was. also happening at the time like in the. days and months before and after there. was a stark difference, right? Yeah.

There was an almost immediate change in. opinion of him after he died. Um it was. like the band Cinderella said, you don't. know what you got till it's gone. That's. right. Um there was this just complete. happen stance um study that had been. carried out in February and March of. 1968 where they sent 10,000 um surveys. to college and university. trustees I guess to take a pulse on the. university and college trustee um.

subculture. Yeah. that asked, among. other things, how they felt about um. Martin Luther King, how they felt about. his views, how much they aligned with. their own views. And after MLK was. assassinated, they they went through and. they separated the surveys that they'd. received before his death and after his. death. And there was a stark difference. Before he was assassinated, 36% of the. respondents said that they held similar. views to King. After the assassination, that rose to 50%. This is within a.

couple weeks. Yeah. Before the. assassination, 30% more than 30% said. that King's views were very unlike. theirs. Afterward, it dropped down to. 19%. Yeah. So, um that it was happening in. real time and we we know that thanks to. that that poll. Yeah. And it's really. hard to overstate the effect the. immediate effect that his assassination. had on the conscience of the United. States. I think it really made a lot of.

probably everyday racist Americans. really rethink themselves. You know that. at the time you could dislike Martin. Luther King Jr. He was alive. He was. railing against Vietnam and going on. about poor people and everything, but. now he's gone, murdered. And it just. something like that can really shock. people into focusing more on themselves. and on their viewpoints than than. otherwise you would. Yeah, for sure. Um,

I mean, one thing that definitely came. out of this was, uh, Lyndon Johnson kind. of used this to get the Fair Housing Act. of 1968 passed. It had failed in ' 66. and '67. So, it wasn't a bill that. looked like it had an immediate future. So, uh, he kind of did the same thing. with the Civil Rights Act of ' 64, right. after JFK was assassinated. So, you. know, very politically savvy to kind of. get these things passed through when the. nation would have been more on board. with that and politicians would have. been more on board.

Um maybe wouldn't have been able to get. it passed through in ' 68 and then uh he. had already announced that he wasn't. running for election before the. assassination. So given what happened uh. with Nixon and then Reagan coming in, if. King had lived, it's doubtful that he. would have had the kind of relationship. that he had with Johnson that with those. two guys. Yeah. But remember also that. he and Johnson had already had a rift. because of MLK's more open vocal stance. against Vietnam. Yeah. And you know, he.

would have definitely kept railing. against Vietnam. So that rift would have. widened even further. Um, and also. general Americans opinions of him. probably would declined even further. because remember after that 1967 Vietnam. speech, um, his popularity, especially. among white Americans, just plummeted in. part because he called the US government. the greatest purveyor of violence in the. world today. That's a pretty direct shot. against the, you know, the government.

And if you are all about the government. and this, you know, black civil rights. leader saying stuff like that, you're. going to take your angst out on the. black civil rights leader who's saying. it rather than stopping and questioning. whether he's right. Yeah, for sure. Um, a lot of people point out that like the. the uh he would have continued to work. for civil rights for black Americans. Americans, but um also may have started. um championing the cause of the LGBTQ uh. rights as a community. Um, Ketta Scott.

King vocally supported this stuff, you. know, after his passing. Mhm. And, um, Martin Luther King Jr. worked very. closely with a gentleman named Bayard. Rustin, um, an openly gay uh, civil. rights um, uh, advocate who, uh, who. could have kept himself in the closet, but very much was out. And so people. think that, yeah, King probably would. have taken up that cause as well later. on. Yeah. We did an episode from 2015 on. the March on Washington. We talked about. Bayard rusted a lot. Yeah, he's also.

often compared to Nel Nelson Mandela. Had MLK lived, they they people say like. he might have followed some sort of. trajectory similar to Nelson Mandela's. Um, but Mandela became president of. South Africa. Would MLK have ever run. for president? From what I saw, most. historians say, probably not. That was. never an aspiration of his. Yeah. And in. fact, he actually turned down an offer. to run on a third party ticket, the. People's Party ticket for the 1968. election with um pediatrician, the the.

author of the very famous baby book, uh. Dr. Benjamin Spock, uh who had turned. anti-war activist as his vice president. So, he probably would not have ever run. for president, but he still would have. remained a very potent, powerful voice. for civil rights for everybody. But had. he not been assassinated, it I I don't. think his legacy would be anything like. it is today. Yeah. How how great though. would it have been to be able to uh.

source a King Spock 68 t-shirt or bumper. sticker? I I guess somebody um like. dummy that up or else really it got far. enough that somebody made buttons. because I saw an image of that on the. internet. Um yeah, I don't know if it. was made up or not. You can't tell these. days, you know. You can't. Uh and then. this all culminated finally with um. Martin Luther King uh Jr., the national. holiday. Uh the campaign for that.

federal holiday began just a few days. after he was uh killed in. 1968. And um it would be uh in installed. in 1983. Took a little while. Um, Representative John Conurs, a Democrat. from Michigan, uh, reintroduced that. legislation every single year, uh, with. the backing of the Congressional Black. Caucus, uh, which he helped found and it. was denied every single year, uh, until. 15 years later when, uh, President. Ronald Reagan signed that bill, making.

the third Monday in January a federal. holiday. Uh, and then it was first. observed in 1986, uh, by everybody um, very famously. except for Arizona. Mhm. Um they were. the last hold out. I remember this. happening very well. Oh, me too. Uh. mainly because of the the great great. song by the time I get to Arizona by. Public Enemy that came out. Uh so we got. that out of it which is pretty great. But uh the NFL was like, "You know what? Um you're not getting the Super Bowl in. 1993." Uh and then after that they said, "All right, we'll get on.

board so we can have a Super Bowl. Whatever it takes by any means. necessary. Arizona, get it together.". They did. That was way back in 1993. Those pe those those policy makers are. all dead and gone by now. I know. I. lived in Arizona. I love that place. Oh, yeah. That's right. Yuma, right? Yeah. Do you ever take the 310? Uh, no. No trains. Uh, okay. Well, since. I made Chuck laugh, I think that we. should end on a high note here and uh.

say that it's time for listener mail. That's right. By pointing out a Josh. math error. Oh, great. So, sorry. Let's. do it. Uh, hey guys. I always laugh when. hearing uh when you quickly correct. yourselves before the email start. I. didn't hear that one today, though. And. I'm sure you'll get more than just this. email. Um, actually, Andrew, we didn't. You were the only one that caught this. Oh, nice. Way to go, Andrew. This was in. the uh uh what would this have been? Um. GPS, I guess. Okay. Oh, by the way, I.

never posted that that that. uh what do you call it when things. intersect? The vin diagram that I sent. you that said bingo. I need to put that. on our Instagram. Yeah, please. I'll do. it. Uh, hey guys. When Josh was. describing the 2D trilateration. um, circles and distance from Denver, he. said to draw a circle around the named. city with a diameter of distance. describe, but that would be a circle. half too small. You need a circle with a. radius for that distance or a diameter. of twice that radius. Your compass would.

be set to the width of the distance you. are from the city. And you draw that. circle which would give you a circle. around a city where every point on that. circle is that described distance from. city center point. That makes sense. And. this is from an electrical engineer uh. in Knoxville, Tennessee, Andrew White, who said, "It makes me happy to listen. and learn from you all each day." So I I. trust you, Andrew, because you're an. electrical engineer. Yeah. Andrew White, the fastest compass in Tennessee.

Uh, thanks a lot, Andrew. I I totally. get that. That was very well explained. Better than I explained it, for sure. Uh, and if you want to be like Andrew. and correct my math, there's not really. much sport in it, but you can still do. it anyway by sending us an email to. stuffodcast@. iheartradio.com. Stuff you should know. is a production of iHeart Radio. For. more podcasts, iHeart Radio, visit the. iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or.

wherever you listen to your favorite. shows. [Music].