The Amazing Life of Christine Granville | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW

[Music]. welcome to stuff you should know a. production of I Heart Radio. [Music]. the podcast I'm Josh and there's Chuck. and Jerry's here too. um and this is stuff you should know oh. Jerry left. she was here I think just long enough. for the interest so that counts wow all. right sure how are you doing I'm great. I'm kind of excited about this one.

because this is one that ow. you got an intro yeah you ready yeah. let's hear it Chuck. yes have you ever heard of World War II. [Laughter]. oh I miss those. well uh sure the big one okay the. granddaddy of them all the the big game. no wait that's a Super Bowl I don't. think they called it the big game well. it turns out Chuck that in World War II. arguably one of the greatest spies an.

amateur no less. came out of Poland. it was a woman. that's right can you believe that. I can. but that's the whole premise of this. well that's not the whole premise of it. but it's a premise of a lot of stuff. like get a load of this this lady what. she did and then when you add it all up. you're like oh my goodness she really. was possibly the greatest spy and her. biographer named Claire Molly put it she. wrote a book called The Spy Who Loved.

there's a colon in there somewhere I. think it's the Spy colon Who Loved maybe. no no. but in her book The Spy Who Loved she. describes this woman who we'll call. Christine Granville for now. um more Bond less Bond girl and I was. like you go girl oh that's a good. descriptor yeah I thought so too. inappropriate uh this is one of those. where you know I'm always harboring. about oh there should be a movie this. should be and it sounds like it is going. to be a movie uh and we'll get to that.

at the end but I do want to give a shout. out we've been taking or at least I have. I think you have two more and more. suggestions from listeners uh I found is. the well uh seemingly it runs drier that. it's nice to get these ideas from people. hmm. good ones right yeah. we get plenty of good ideas a lot like. every every day we get a few good ideas. I would say yeah I would say so and I. keep a list of good ideas and I I very. kindly say thank you to the people whose.

ideas aren't great they're good ideas. but just maybe not for the show. sure you know what I'm saying you tell. them that no no I tell everybody thank. you for the great idea right but I well. I guess that would be outing myself if I. say what I told the people these ideas I. really like uh so I'm just gonna keep. that to myself but this one came from uh. Jen spotta in Seattle. and basically said yeah this is. Christine granfalls is close to our real.

life James Bond as you can get yep and. uh I'll go on to say this is a another. way of precursoring this episode uh Jen. says she was a spy for the British in. World War II okay and her stories are so. insane they're almost unbelievable yeah. but her story is not very well known so. Jen. this one's for you. yeah and it's for everybody who's ever. wanted to learn more about women's spies. in World War II totally uh Christine. Granville was kind of an awesome ba yeah.

she really was. um her Christine Granville was just a. cover name that's what she's fairly well. known as best. um because she kept that after the war. because she was so proud of what she'd. accomplished with that name but she was. born. um in Poland to uh an aristocratic. father and a wealthy mother from a. Jewish banking family the father was not. wealthy he just had a he was. aristocratic so you put the two together. and you have a suddenly very powerful. family and her birth name was Christina.

scarbeck which is a I mean Christine. Granville you can see Christina to. Christine the Granville throws me off a. little bit from skarbick but I guess. that's the point of a a new identity you. don't exactly want to be like wait a. minute that sounds a lot like Christina. scarbeck is that who you are. yeah and different spellings the. Americanized I guess Christina with a CH. uh well literally like Christian uh and. then the Polish version was uh. k-r-y-s-t-y-n-a and if I may just read.

her full name because it's pretty great. her full given name was Maria Christina. Janina scarbeck and I have to say her. dad's name because there are two. men in this story with his first name. and I've never heard of it his name was. Jersey. j-e-r-z-y so I looked it up and in. Polish it's like yurtzy your tea okay I. figured and it's the Polish version of. George oh okay so no wonder it sounds a. little more common than I would think.

but it is a pretty pretty great name in. the spelling and the fact that there's. two yurtzees in her life very prominent. ones I I think that's astounding too. that you go from zero to two. overnight basically that's right uh her. mom was a goldfelder of the uh Jewish. banking goldfelder family and that's. where they got their money but when. Christine. um was growing up you know she was very. privileged but then eventually after. World War One the goldfilder bank tanked.

uh and the depression that followed and. her dad left the family uh died when she. when Christina was in her early 20s and. she ends up you know not having a lot of. money living in an apartment in Warsaw. with her brother and her mother. yes. um yeah her dad just abandoned the. family when the money ran out that's. pretty awful yeah what a jersey she. right she um she ended up kind of living. the high life as best she could she.

liked to go out on the town she was a. runner-up for Miss Poland beauty contest. I saw that she used to hang out at a. very chic ski resort and while there. this is a great great example of the. kind of how she could straddle multiple. worlds like the people that she was. there with were all very wealthy. um you know. trusting kids in like aristocratic kids. but while she was at the ski resort she. also connected with the criminals there. and learned the smuggling routes and.

would go into the foreign like. neighboring countries to buy cheaper. cigarettes and bring them back and sell. them. um more expensively in Poland that's a. great example and this this is what she. was doing in her early 20s yeah I mean. she sounds like a few things a real. firecracker yeah uh someone who was. eager for adventure and not one to just. sort of go the expected route of a young. woman at the time in any way. and the reason we mentioned this next.

part is because it's very it's very sort. of prevalent thing for the story is she. was very attractive and very charming. and used her looks and her charm uh in. her life as a spy to great effect and. also ended up as a result having many. many uh Affairs which was not the kind. kind of thing that uh you know a woman. of repute was to do back then right she. didn't care about that kind of thing she. did not she was James bonding her way. around Europe in a way yeah I saw that.

she was described as having a near. pathological enjoyment of dangerous. situations yeah like something was. Fearless not only that she seemed to be. attracted to fear so yeah. um she married a couple of times her. second husband yertzie gezecki. um I'm pretty sure that's how it's. pronounced he was a diplomat for Poland. in Ethiopia and. um while they were moving to Ethiopia or. they had already moved and they were.

traveling around South Africa Germany. invaded Poland yeah and one of the. things you have to know about Christina. scarbeck is she was incredibly patriotic. like she she was not happy about Germany. invading Poland at all and but she. actually did something about it she. figured out how to get a meeting with. the secret intelligence Services. um George Taylor which became MI6 the. spies in in Britain she got a meeting.

with him and said hey I want to. spy for you guys and and work with the. Polish resistance let's make this happen. yeah and that's not the way things. usually went uh usually didn't go. knocking on the door of MI6 first of all. you probably don't know where that door. is right uh but if you happen to find. out where that door is you don't go. knocking on it and ask for a job you are. generally found and recruited and asked. to be to become a part of it. um I have a feeling this George Taylor. guy was he was an Australian businessman.

turned Saboteur yeah and I think maybe. because he uh was a a civilian who got. involved he might have had a. um maybe a soft spot for this person who. and again attractive and Charming that. certainly didn't hurt right but maybe he. had a soft spot for her like being so. eager to sign up as a civilian and would. eventually uh he would eventually run. what was known as the soe the Special. Operations executive which were.

civilians they were volunteer civilians. that were saboteurs that they uh except. for it sounds like Christine Granville. would recruit to work for them and do. you know sneaky spy missions during. World War II yeah including sabotage and. stuff I saw one example of what they did. was um that's what a saboteur does the. second the second Panzer Division. um were a real problem in Europe for the. allies and one of the missions the soe.

carried out was to remove the the Axel. grease from the trains that were. transporting the Panzer Division and. their tanks. um and replace it with some sort of. corrosive abrasive oil so just. completely wrecked the trains and set. them back for days if not weeks they did. stuff like that and again these are just. ordinary people from ordinary life who. wanted to do something and the fact that. they were Ordinary People and could. blend in made them intensely valuable to.

carry out sabotage missions Behind Enemy. Lines yeah absolutely uh so she goes to. Taylor she's like I have an idea first. of all I want a job and not only do I. want a job but I've got an idea for that. job already of how I can just hit the. ground running I want to go to Hungary. which at the time was neutral in World. War II and I can produce propaganda. there I'm an excellent snow skier so I. can then ski across the tatra mountain.

range get into Poland set up. communications there with you guys and I. can get a whole network I've got people. that will you know from the Polish. resistance that'll help me along and I. can I can do this over and over to your. heart's content in this Australian guy. said well I was going to do an. Australian accent. but I decided not to at the last minute. I don't know why it froze up he said. sure lady. that was a different Choice yeah so he.

signed her up he said welcome aboard how. about you do your Murray impression of. of him hiring her everybody says that. yeah maybe he's New Englander I think. isn't he yeah he is but even in. Australia they think it's awesome oh. okay he said present. so so he he hires her but you can't you. know at the time be like a soe agent. overtly you have to have some sort of. cover. and um so she was officially hired as a.

first aid nursing Yao monri at Fanny. person which had been around for a while. and it was usually made up of wealthy. women who donated their own time money. clothes expenses paid their own expenses. to basically volunteer for World War one. that was carried over and it made a lot. of sense because it also meant that. those women were typically left alone. not only were they women they were women. volunteers and they were wealthy women. volunteers so you just didn't mess with. them that much so it was a really great. cover for a woman who was a soe.

operative yeah she was also commissioned. as a flight officer for the British. women's auxiliary air force again just. another cover job. uh but they let her do that first plan. they were like not only can you come. aboard but we think that sounds pretty. good to us uh she was successful she got. a Olympic skier uh an olymp a Polish. Olympic skier and Mountaineer named uh. Jan marasarts uh to help her along. across the border they skied across this.

2 000 meter uh you know set of Alps and. apparently as the story goes and we. should say some of the stuff is. completely verified and some of this. stuff are stories that were told that. maybe you know lathered up a little bit. apparently she was known to sort of. lather up her own stories but they're. still great stories but as The Story. Goes they skied by dead bodies of like. frozen people uh to get into Allied. territory.

yeah this seems pretty believable to me. that people were trying to escape Poland. and just froze to death on the way to. Hungary makes for a good movie scene. sure. um yeah they're really it really kind of. soaks in just what the stakes are what's. at stake for their mission do you know. what I mean yeah and also I will say if. the makers of this movie are listening. cast Josh and I as Frozen dead people. that'd be great how about what an Easter. egg that would be that would be. wonderful I'd be sitting there trying. not to smile Frozen.

you want to take a break real quick they. could be like look at him he seemed. happy when he passed right they say it's. a good way to go yeah let's take a break. and uh I'm gonna work in my my frozen. dead body we'll be right back. [Music].

so Chuck you were saying that. um the the myths around Christine. Granville are. questionable but it's probably one of. those things that there's some sort of. Kernel of Truth to them sure yeah yeah. but one of the other things that makes. her so. um compelling is that some of them it's. tough to to distinguish the myth from. the actual stories because ones that are.

documented are just as mind-blowing as. the ones that are like is that true and. then in a lot of cases the story is true. but say whoever the bad guy is in that. story might be mixed up and then maybe. they're not quite as scary as the bad. guy that got you know inserted into the. story later on but the story is still. true and that was confusing but later on. everybody I'll point out the example I'm. talking about okay is that the one we're. about to talk about no it's a different.

one the one we're about to talk about I. say is the one where she was on a train. smuggling documents yeah so this is. during that that same sort of. um. mission that she had originally proposed. she ended up doing that like I don't. know six or eight times so it wasn't. just a one-off uh she was just skiing. back and forth all the time past Josh. and Chuck you know didn't care about us. uh but at one point there was a train uh. headed to Warsaw that she boarded uh she. saw that there were armed guards you. know you know asking for papers and.

possessions going through people's stuff. and so she turns on that charm and bats. her eyes at a Gestapo officer and was. like here would you mind holding this. package it's I shouldn't have it it's. black market tea I'm trying to bring it. to my mother who really loves this stuff. but you know I don't want to get caught. and so he's like sure for all I know. I'll hold that for you but of course in. that box were illegal documents that. this guy was unknowingly hiding from his. gestapo uh counterparts yeah I mean like. he like that surely would have cost her.

her life had he opened the box but sure. she's capable of charming even gestapo. agents and that was part of it too like. it wasn't it wasn't. um just the same type of charm for every. person that that was like a catch-all. type of charm she was also emotionally. intelligent enough to be able to read. individual people or even whole groups. of people to figure out what they what. they wanted to hear what would charm. them the most so she could be very you. know rigid and commanding she could also.

be like flirtatious and helpless like. whatever it called for yeah she just. could recognize what the best course of. action was and it worked more often than. not for yeah she was really good at what. she did uh eventually she would get. married uh. well she met a guy named on how would. you pronounce that it's Andre oh it is. Andre koworski boy I tell you what. Polish people have so many extra letters. I just celebrate that so much I have. polish friends and it's always amazing.

to me to look at the amount of letters. and those names yeah so Andre is in this. case is spelled. a-n-d-r-z-e-j and then z e j really. comes as a surprise at the end of us. English speakers it really does anyway. great names so she met this guy he was a. war hero he was polish he had one leg he. was also a spy and she was still married. to uh Kazuki but nevertheless she. started up a relationship with kaworski.

uh it would be sort of a sort of a. lifelong love on and off even though. again she would also have many other. sort of short Affairs and flings some. job related some seemingly not. yeah there's a very um popular story. about her that um she had a really men. would become obsessed with her so. sometimes it was easier than others to. get rid of guys. um and in one case in Budapest uh she. had a knock on her apartment door and a.

former Suitor who she you know Left. Behind was begging her to come back and. threaten that if if she didn't he would. shoot himself in his genital organs that. was a direct quote Yeah and apparently. he tried but he missed and he ended up. shooting himself in the foot so he was. quite serious about that and I just. can't help but Wonder like what her. response was to that like did she bring. him in her apartment and help nurse him. did she go get help what did she do. because I could see her like taking care.

of the guy but also at the same time. being like this is this doesn't mean. we're back together I just you know. don't want you to bleed to death from. shooting yourself in the foot kind of. thing it really depends on who plays him. in the movie. the guy yeah if he's a Sad Sack she. might be like get in here what have you. done to yourself like you literally shot. yourself in the foot right uh if it's. played by some creep then you know she. shuts the door and says hobble off yeah. good riddance. so uh to you know her dad had split and.

died at this point but we did want to. follow up about her mom uh she was. teaching at a secret school in German. occupied territory right uh not a good. place to be because I don't think we. mentioned that her family although she. did convert to Catholicism I believe for. marriage uh she was Jewish and she was. wealthy and she wouldn't stop teaching. at that school so she would not leave. the country with her daughter and she. was eventually captured and uh everyone. basically agrees that she was probably. killed yes.

um so both of her parents I think are. dead already died in her 20s I'm not. sure if we said that or not so both of. her parents are gone she has a younger. brother but for the most part she's just. kind of free to live her life oh she has. a husband back home by the way but he's. off doing his own thing for the Brits as. a secret agent too yeah and really for. all intents and purposes she's a common. law married to Andre kaworski despite. having all of these separate flings that. she's carrying out for her duties as a. spy in the soe yeah and koworski was.

also a spy yes exactly so her life is. just dangerous from moment to moment so. I'm sure she's just loving every second. of it. um and like you said she just kept going. back and forth across the Polish. Hungarian border faring people and. weapons and money and info and she was. working inside Poland with a group. called The Musketeers who will pose a. problem for her later on because they. were like a resistance group like um you. know uh from the top secret yeah that.

kind of thing but they were French. because of Chocolat moose and what were. the other ones. uh. uh I don't know okay I don't know what. you're talking about but they're the. Musketeers so of course they were French. so no they were polish. now you said they were French I'm saying. in the movie Top Secret they were French. oh the Musketeers were polish I get what. you mean yes so the the upshot that was. totally unnecessary by the way but the. upshot of it is that from the Musketeers.

she she managed to cement her reputation. among the spies both professional and. amateur working for Britain when she. brought information to the Brits. um that the Nazis were about to break. their non-aggression pact with the. Russians and invade the Soviet Union and. it turned out that they invaded on the. very day that her Intel said that they. would yeah but Winston and Churchill. himself called her out and said she's my.

favorite spy. and everyone said is that a thing sure. it is a little little known fact Chuck. Winston Churchill sounded exactly like. Murray from Flight of the conflict. just FYI uh this is a pretty good story. uh and a lot of these are just little. bits from her life of course that make. for you know good stories and eventually. a good movie but uh she was uh in. January of 1941 she had been arrested by. Hungarian secret police along with. kaworski who she was you know she's.

doing spying with him and after a couple. of days of being interrogated she uh. very clandestinely bites into her tongue. enough that it starts bleeding man and. she starts coughing up blood as if she. has TB and everyone freaks out because. nobody wanted TB and so they released. them it's a great idea yeah you know. I've been in possibly the very rooms. that she was being interrogated in in. Budapest they've turned some of those.

places into museums that you can go and. visit oh cool wow this is where the. secret police like interrogated people. it's it's nuts it's really well done no. I didn't yeah but it's a like real I. can't remember the name of the museum. there can't be too many of them but. Budapest has a few attractions like that. or kind of dark tourist attractions that. are really worth visiting if you ever go. I'll have to ask Emily because she went. to museums there I bet I bet that was. one of them I'll bet it was no but she.

also went to the hospital in the Rock. which was a literal underground Hospital. built into a cave system that they. preserved it's they have wax dummies. like hanging out that makes it even. cooler do any of them look like us no. but one of them smiling inappropriately. okay. um so all right eventually she and um. korski uh are exposed as spies like. their their cover is blown and they. still want to do their job so they uh.

adopt new identities this is when she. finally becomes uh Christine Granville. uh korski became Andrew Kennedy uh which. is kind of funny what do you think about. it and she like you said at the. beginning she was she was Granville from. there on out because that's sort of. where she became even more famous and. wanted to hang on to that name uh and. this is where her birthday gets a little. confusing because she gave herself a. different birth date obviously to assume. this new identity which made her. probably like six to eight years younger.

and so whenever there are stories about. her there can be some confusion about. whether or not she was like in her early. to mid 20s or like mid-30s when a lot of. this is going on yeah so um she ended up. bouncing off to Cairo to spy on the. Polish intelligence service so get this. for confusing Poland is occupied by Nazi. Germany but the Polish intelligence. service still exists and is working. against Nazi Germany and at the same. time the soe in part is has infiltrated.

Poland with Polish civilians working as. operatives and they as far as the Polish. intelligence service is concerned is. working against the Polish intelligence. Services interests and is making life. hard on them so there was a rivalry. between soe operatives in Poland and the. Poland polish intelligence services that. ended up actually becoming problematic. for. um for Christine Granville because the.

the intelligence Services basically. denounced she and kaworski as um. if not Spies Like double agents then. they were being manipulated by double. agents in the Musketeers I told you the. Musketeers would become problematic for. them this is where that happened yeah I. think because the Musketeers were this. freelance civilian group uh and you know. maybe they had been infiltrated by axis. buys uh they at the very least were. thought to have been infiltrated so they.

uh and we mentioned that um. that joseki her her still husband was. also a spy he heard about what was going. on he seemed like a pretty stand-up guy. because he heard about what was going on. to her and to now Andrew Kennedy a. previously kaworski and he was like you. know what I I'm not going to stand for. this uh I'm out of here. and that was kind of a real stand-up. thing to do he resigned. um eventually uh she said you know I.

don't know if you're trying to like get. back together with me but I'm still with. I'm still with this guy kaworski so I. appreciate what you did but that's not. gonna end he's like oh I I see like yeah. yeah right man poor guy so um that kind. of settled that I think he kind of bows. out of the story at this point right. yeah but did they stay married. I don't know it's a Olivia who helped us.

with this said the relationship. dissolved but it already sounded fairly. dissolved I just don't know if they were. officially not married at that point. yeah I don't think it would have. mattered much practically speaking no. you're right but she and kaworski now. Kennedy hung around Cairo. um for the the next year while the Brits. investigated them and whether they were. actually spies or not and the Brits. later on said they were fully aware that. they weren't spies and that they were. loyal and that there there was really no. problem but they were having to indulge.

the Polish intelligence service is. because they needed the Polish. intelligence services and yet it was the. Brits who had gotten the whole thing. stirred up by commanding. um kaworski not to report to the Polish. intelligence services and only to report. to them and so that's what brought the. first animosity up between kowersky and. then by association Granville. um with the Polish intelligence Services. who denounced them later as spies. unfairly but they got cleared ultimately. from that investigation and they got.

back to work yeah she got back to work. in uh in France actually July of 1944. she goes to France now she is using the. name uh Pauline Armand she literally. parachutes into the south of France. um she's going there to uh you know get. get involved in the resistance there and. start to sort of help out which. um eventually the American Invasion so. she was laying the groundwork of what. was to come for the United States.

involvement uh she was and this guy ends. up being pretty important she was the. second command to a guy named Francis uh. how do you pronounce that last name. Frenchie. yeah because the the RTS would would all. be pronounced okay well that sounds. about right he led the soe's independent. French uh he was organizing sabotage. um Grill operations Saboteur missions. stuff like that uh and Olivia also. points out in true movie fashion that uh.

when she was in France she had cyanide. tablets and knives sewn into the hems of. her skirt yeah I think the knife was. strapped to her thigh but it was roundly. described as razor sharpened that she. carried it with her at all times and yet. she so she knew her way around a knife I. guess she didn't like guns very much her. her weapon of choice get this Chuck was. grenades yeah because she could take out. multiple people at once so she's like of.

course I'm gonna use grenades so I mean. just one more thing that it's like wow. this this lady is really astounding like. her favorite weapon was grenades that's. not the quest that's not the answer most. people people are expecting when you're. asked that question no uh and that that. grenades actually play a part in one. story that and this is one that you know. could be a little gussied up because. it's written differently in different. biographies again would make for a great. movie scene but she stopped at the.

Italian border uh you know they say put. your hands up and she's got you know. grenades she you know she holds up her. arms and she's got grenades and she said. I'm gonna I'm gonna blow you all up and. the Germans run screaming in the movie. version right so this was the story I. was referring to earlier where if you. switch out the bad guys it's still an. amazing story but not quite as thrilling. yeah so this was um described the the. she was stopped by German officers and.

the German officers fled so she scared. off Nazis with this Bluff or it might. never even been a bluff in reality the. other biography says these were Italian. conscripts so these were soldiers who. had basically been forced into. soldiering who were patrolling the. Border probably pretty low-level. soldiers. that you can imagine might run off a. little faster than maybe Nazi officers. at the time so that's what I was talking. about the story is probably true but you. just kind of add a little thing here and. take this person out there and all of a.

sudden it's just eye-popping yeah. absolutely at one point in another story. she was carrying and this is this is. cool kind of spycraft stuff I never. thought about if you carry a paper map. and you're getting patted down that map. might wrestle and crunch and make some. noise so they would carry silk Maps so. they wouldn't make any noise and she got. caught with one of these silk Maps but. before they could find it. she yanked off her silk headscarf and. tied up her map into her head and spoke.

perfect French I don't think we. mentioned but of course she spoke. several languages right perfectly yeah. and impersonated a local and apparently. got out of there funny enough she spoke. zero German. yeah I mean she might not have needed to. if she was pretending to be everything. but Sherman she spoke German Shepherd. though. oh God this is the best one I think can. you go ahead no you no you. all right there's one story where you. know the Germans send in the German. Shepherd to to root them out and uh I.

guess they were in the bushes or. something and the German Shepherd finds. her and she is able to charm this German. Shepherd into just kind of laying down. and getting scritches while the Germans. are whistling for this dog to come back. uh this German Shepherd was like no this. is my new mama right they're the Germans. were like Fritz here yeah. that better be in the movie oh it would. have to be yeah but what would be great. is if they use that like 1950s film. trick where they just play the dog.

standing up in Reverse to make it lay. down. that always look so funny it's sort of. uncanny it's like wait what was it what. just happened yeah something someone was. off with that oh that's great so um and. I'm a extra in the background in the. bush is just smiling like I think it's. hilarious they're like wait isn't that. the dead polish. so um and you guys might be out there. thinking like guys you're just sitting. there rattling off story after Story. this is essentially a timeline of what.

what she went through like everything we. just said after she got to France. happened in France like that's how. incredibly uh prolific she was. um I think this was this all would have. happened in. 1943 1944 I believe yeah so I mean this. stuff is happening to her on like a. daily basis and I should say not. happening to her she's going out and. finding this kind of thing and loving. yeah loving life right absolutely. um and then finally in 1944. um he undertook what became like her.

most legendary Mission and it sounds. like she kind of took it on herself. which is something you could do as an. soe agent to a large extent as long as. you were screwing up the enemy they were. fine with whatever you were doing and. then I guess it was the next year in. August of 1944. um she undertook what was probably her. most well-known most celebrated Mission. and from what I can tell Chuck she. undertook it on her own accord she was. not ordered to do this she just was like.

I'm I'm going to go do this. a great time for a cliffhanger okay all. right we'll be back with the rest of the. story right after this. [Music].

all right great Cliffhanger my friend. you really know how to set them up. thanks sure you know how to knock them. down. say our show is it scripted that's a. great line reading. uh actually we're the people that say. that yeah um so this is August 1944. uh. Khmer is that how it's pronounced you. said why not all right come here and a. couple of other French Resistance. members were captured Again by the. gestapo and they're about to be put to. death and guess who steps in to save the.

day. uh. [Music]. uh I don't know. Christine Granville take it away oh okay. so she shows up at this um I guess a. French prison that they were being. interrogated at and were about to be. executed and said hey I am the niece of. General Bernard Montgomery who's on his. way with a whole bunch of allies that. are about to overtake this and you. French collaborators you're going to pay. a dear dear price if you execute these.

men right before they get here they're. going to take it out on you and you're. going to hate life and apparently they. said all right we're properly scared. but can you sweeten the pot a little bit. yeah and she said okay what about 2. million francs and they said sold so she. handed off the bribe and they took off. and left these three really really. important French Resistance leaders. um to live she's saved their lives and. apparently after they left the prison.

they were like I can't believe you just. did that and she said it just kind of. hit her finally like just how dangerous. it was it hadn't even occurred to her. that they might be like uh no we're not. and you're captured now too and we're. going to execute you as well because she. was just so focused on what she needed. to do and going to do it and knowing she. could do it it didn't even occur to her. that she was actually putting herself in. incredible danger yeah it was amazing. apparently she turned in her report uh. typed it up handed it into the soe and. their reaction was quote good reading.

I'm going to make sure that I keep on. Christine's side in the future and. another agent said so am I she frightens. me to death very nice yeah thank you so. the the Allies won the war spoiler alert. and especially in Europe I should say. um and as a result Granville was awarded. some pretty hefty Awards. um she actually wanted to remember she's. a civilian a Polish civilian and yet she.

was given the honor of Officer of the. order of the British Empire yeah if you. get that medal you are a man British and. at least a lieutenant colonel she was. none of those things and they still said. you you were so amazing if on our you. know on our behalf we're going to give. you that and she also got another one. the George medal too. or the in Poland they would call it the. Jersey Jersey here's the medal wait who. is the other Jersey did we even find him.

her second husband the Diplomat to to. um to Ethiopia was years that's right. that's right okay and Dad all right just. want to make sure we covered that uh. what was that the French award she went. to the the quad together yes. the cross of wars did just that's right. uh so this all seems like oh great this. is amazing I bet you after the War the. British government really took care of. her and saw to it that she you know had. the best job in government uh not true.

uh they kind of turned their back on her. in a lot of ways uh she tried to get. citizenship and it took her quite a few. years to get it uh all the way until. 1949 uh they cut off her financial. support uh they basically said well you. know what kind of job can she get a. quote she cannot type she has no. experience whatever for office work uh. and is all together not a very easy. person to employ uh which uh maybe she. wasn't the easiest person to employ in. those regards but.

she was an exceptionally intelligent. crafty resourceful human and the fact. that they couldn't find work for her is. shameful. yeah so or wouldn't find work for her. wouldn't I think that's it because. Churchill lost re-election shortly after. the war and he was the protector of the. soe and especially Granville who he. decided was his favorite spy which is a. big deal. um Churchill loved the soe he instructed. them to set Europe Ablaze was his quote.

but with him out of power they didn't. have that cover from on High. um anymore and just like with the Polish. intelligence service the professional. intelligence people very much resented. the amateurs thinking that they were. doing the same work with the same. quality as the professionals so they. were I don't think it was just her. specifically but I think a lot of the. soe was turned out. um although I think some actually were. kind of brought aboard to be.

professionals but she definitely wasn't. no so where did she work she worked as a. housekeeper she worked as a switchboard. operator she worked as a cruise ship. waitress. uh this is what her life was after that. you know exciting time of War doing some. of the most dangerous things you could. imagine many of which Upon Our Own. initiative and she ends up working as a. housekeeper and a switchboard operator. and other sort of smaller jobs uh.

eventually she uh would live in a house. run by the Polish Relief Society. um there is another rumor and this is uh. good stuff for the movie but the. character of Vesper land and Casino. Royale the great James Bond novel and. films apparently was based on Granville. because she reportedly had an affair. with Ian Fleming the author of the James. Bond novels yeah pretty neat did you. know I think we talked about it before. but Ian Fleming and Roald Dahl the guy. who's uh who created Charlie and.

Chocolate Factory they were both spies. for the Brits in America yeah I just. find that endlessly fascinating yeah. there's we should do an episode on that. stuff it's good okay. so um Christine Granville actually had. reached the point in her 40s where she. was ready to settle down with koworski. um it was like okay we're gonna he's a. Kennedy after all right we're just gonna. start um he was definitely afraid of. Wi-Fi and she was like what's Wi-Fi he's. like just wait and see so.

um she was ready to settle down started. a new normal everyday life and um she. was visited at that polish Relief. Society hotel or boarding house by a guy. that she had either had an affair with. or had turned down who was a co-worker. on the cruise ship with her his name was. Dennis Muldowney and he stalked her and. approached her in the the lobby of that. boarding house and stabbed her in the. heart and killed her because he was so.

obsessed with her he he said later that. to kill is the final possession which is. a awful awful sentiment and I mean good. God and he also said that he was still. very much in love with her so he. murdered her out of just jealous. Obsession like if he couldn't have her. no one could and that's how Christine. Granville after all the danger she put. herself in after all the services she. provided to the Allies the good guys. objectively the good guys in World War. II.

she she was murdered by a jealous jerk. yeah and in her what sort of early 40s. uh still a young woman very very sad uh. yeah by this crazy stalker uh kaworski. for his part uh AKA Kennedy lived till. 1988 uh and his ashes at his request. were flown to London to be interred. alongside granville's uh kaworski and we. mentioned that uh Khmer guy was a good.

guy then three other guys said who had. been close to with Granville. um they formed the panel to protect the. memory of Christine Granville after her. death to you know she had a life full of. um you know marital Affairs and sexual. encounters and things like that and they. didn't want her story to be just sort of. scandalized I think after her death and. for people to focus in on that kind of. thing so they actually blocked. biographies successfully for a while for. coming out blocked articles from coming.

out eventually though articles and. biographies would come out that would. tell the the full sort of proud story of. her life and not in a scandalous way. right and the whole thing kind of like. uh tilted the world showed that it was. ready for to appreciate Christine. Granville when um Claire Molly the. historian uh released the book The Spy. Who Loved colon the secrets and lives of. Christine Granville that came out in. 2012 and it's like the definitive.

biography on Granville and it was. extremely well received and Chuck you. can rest assured that there's a good. chance we will be frozen extras in the. movie because they are making at least. one movie about it yeah uh at one point. Kate Winslet was attached to something. would have loved to have seen that. because Kate Winslet is the best but. there's one called the partisan that's. supposedly shooting now uh with Roman. polanski's daughter uh Morgan playing.

Grandville yep who knew I didn't know I. had a daughter. I didn't know either but that that adds. up French polish actress sure yeah. Malcolm McDowell's in it too. I I don't I can't I just can't. I can't feel settled when he's on the. screen. now he's I mean he's old who would he be. playing I don't know maybe Churchill. um that's got to be Gary Oldman or. somebody right uh you know that's Andy. McDowell's father right.

no no I swear to God that's Andy. McDowell's father. Malcolm McDowell yes. I thought she was like from the American. South she is she was born and raised in. North Carolina but that is her father. wow I had no idea yeah you know Margaret. quality is his granddaughter then I. guess yes and she's married to Jack. no wait Andy McDowell's not his daughter. yes she is oh no okay then she's Roddy. McDowell's daughter.

oh. British same last name. one was Caligula one was um the dude. from clock performance well now I feel. like I don't have to check you but now I. got to look up Roddy McDowell no that. one I'm sure of. look it up are you sure yeah we'll wait. all right well say something else like. you know why don't you read listener. mail or something oh well how about this. I'll set you up for listener man while. you're looking and you can tell us on. the other side of the chime whether I'm. right or not okay if you want to know.

more about Christine Granville you can. check out Claire Molly's book the spy. who loved and there's plenty of other. great stuff on the internet to read. about her too and then look out for me. and Chuck in the movie and since I said. look out for me and Chuck in the movie. it's time for a listener mail. all right I'm going to call this uh. Roddy McDowell was actually gay and. never married. good Lord. reverse this course who is Andy. McDowell's father well that's what I was.

gonna say that would be the the sensible. thing to do uh I do know Margaret. quality is her daughter I know that no. that's definitely true she was in um. made have you seen made I you know I. never saw that it's on the list it is. really good Andy McDowell who I'm not. usually a huge fan of as an actress I. don't think she's well used very very. much as far as characters go she really. Nails it as Margaret qualey's kind of. like. um near do well mom who's still trying. to be in her life it's just a just a.

really great. kind of gut-wrenching movie. yeah and I can also recommend while. we're here the movie sanctuary. it was out last year with Margaret quali. and uh uh who's that guy I really like. him a lot he was in girls. uh Christopher Abbott. of course and it's a sort of a. two-person movie and it's really really. good highly recommended and by the way. in case you wondered Andy McDowell's dad. uh was a lumber executive from South. Carolina named Malcolm McDowell who's.

also the actor Marion the Saint Pierre. McDowell oh boy. wow that was a journey I've got another. movie for you since we're talking about. movies I got two as a matter of fact one. let's hear it my niece Mila is in a. movie that's out on the big screen. called the another one yes okay it's. called the hill it's a super duper. Christian movie. um like legitimately like they they call. out Jesus Christ but the the preacher's. not like set up to be like a. demonstration of of hypocrisy he's.

actually like a preacher. um usually not my genre but and I. probably wouldn't have seen it have my. knee stop in it but it is actually. really good and Dennis Quaid is the the. father of the main character and he does. an excellent job and it's just a it's. worth seeing it's pretty uplifting and. Mila just knocks it out of the park as. the young version of the main dude's. love interest the white Mila is just. killing us yes and that is so great you. guys must be so excited oh yeah it was.

so cool to go to them like just a normal. movie theater and get popcorn and then. see our niece up there on the big screen. I love it that is amazing the other one. was the black hole the Disney one from. 1979. I just had an itch to watch it and. man does it hold up. you think so okay. yep it's even better than I remembered. as a kid all right okay so that was it. Chuck I'm gonna call this uh 10 year old. request we don't usually read requests. but we like hearing from our young. listeners and this is from Henry uh dear.

Josh and Chuck my name is Henry and I'm. 10 years old really love your podcast. and I'll listen to it every day on the. way to school I'm writing in mainly. because I think you should make an. episode about the psychology where if. you paint all the walls of a room black. or a different dark color it makes the. said room feel much smaller now I know I. could just read an article about this. but that would just be boring plus I'd. rather hear it from you guys so whatever. time of day you're reading this A. Farewell to you I would I would love to. see that episode come out bye and that.

is Henry and Henry I think that would. make a great short stuff yep uh how. color affects the perception of size I. love it nice thanks a lot Henry we. appreciate that we appreciate your. Charming character as well thank you for. adding that to the email it could have. been totally boring and straightforward. and you didn't do that so thanks that's. right go Henry do you want to be like. Henry and have us say go Henry but with. your name instead of Henry you can send. us an email to stuffpodcast. iheartradio.com. [Music].

stuff you should know is a production of. iHeartRadio for more podcasts my heart. radio visit the iHeartRadio app Apple. podcasts or wherever you listen to your. favorite shows. [Music]. foreign.