The Alien Abduction Phenomenon of the Mid-20th Century | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW

[Music]. welcome to stuff you should know a. production of iHeart. Radio hey and welcome to the podcast I'm. Josh and there's Chuck and Ben's here. again too it's pretty much the new. status quo which I have to say I like a. lot and that makes the stuff you should. know oh I was about to say Jerry might. get her feelings hurt but you know she. won't even hear that no not a chance if.

she's not you know overseeing that. episode it's not like she goes oh I. should listen in yeah I got to keep up. with these guys they're so hilarious. that's not a Jerry thing to think yeah. especially when it's more alien stuff. yeah um we've done a lot of alien stuff. and and by God every second of it's been. amazing and I don't think this is going. to be any different if you ask me no. it's it's been a while though we haven't. uh I felt like we kind of had a little. grouping of those mhm you know 10 years. ago or something I think it was like.

last year but we did was it really no it. was probably like within the last two. years we did that two-parter on Project. Blue Book oh sure I just remember years. ago at at ComiCon didn't we do an alien. thing there uh we did one on UFOs yeah. yeah for sure that's a that's a brave uh. thing for us to do at ComiCon for. sure a lot of experts there yeah yeah so. uh yeah today we're talking about. something that definitely has a lot to. do with aliens a lot to do with UFOs but. also really has a lot to do with social.

psychology and sociology and history. there a a strange moment in time where. there was a you can almost call it a. trend and I I want to say right from the. outset we are in no way shape or form. mocking anyone who believes that they. were abducted after researching this I. fully understand that people who who. believe they were abducted by aliens are. traumatized by that exper exp erience.

mhm and um show all the symptoms of a. traumatic experience and then on top of. that have the uh indignity of not being. believed by anybody and probably talked. down to fairly frequently so we're going. to try not to talk down so I'm not I'm. not um in calling it a trend I'm not. trying to diminish the experience of. anybody who's ever who who believes they. were abducted and that it had an impact. on their lives but there was a period in. time from about the 1960s and70s through.

to the '90s where there were a lot of. people running. around claiming to have been abducted. yeah it's interesting it's fascinating. because it it dawned me when I was. researching this it like I just haven't. had I haven't heard one of these in a. long time no and I I looked up um and. saw a bunch of different places that. people attribute that that to the Advent. of ubiquitous camera. phones Ah that's inconvenient yeah. exactly you can be like nope this is.

what you saw so and it dried up at. almost the exact same time okay all. right that makes a lot of sense but. before that there was there was like. people have been seeing weird stuff in. the sky and being like UFO for a while. but in our Project Blue Book um episode. we we found like the moment it really. kicked off and that was June 24th 1947. and we talked it up to a guy named. Kenneth Arnold who was a I think a um an. amateur pilot or like a hobbyist who saw.

what what came to be considered the. first flying saucer yeah uh he and the. alarming thing about this was he clocked. the speed at about 1,600 M an hour uh. which is at the time you know easily um. three times faster than anything else. could fly yeah and this is where the. term saucer came from he said they flew. like a saucer would if you skipped it. across the water and so that's kind of. where that term came from and this is.

you know this is just after World War II. and it's not like any no one had ever um. claimed to have witnessed anything. before this but basically pre this date. it was 100% uh well maybe not 100% who. knows but most people were saying like. oh that's just you know some uh enemy. technology or something that we don't. know about yeah so so Kenneth Arnold. kicked off what you you characterizes. like the modern. UFO movement I guess right yeah as in. there's an alien driving not a Russian.

yes yeah good point and also the thing. that really bolstered it within days of. that within two weeks the Roswell um. crash happened which a lot of people say. that's the that's the Advent of the idea. that aliens are actually visiting us and. that the government is covering it up. right so those two things it was a one-w. punch in 1947 in the in the summer of. 1947 um that really kind of just debuted. aliens to the world and one of the.

things as we'll see with um. abduction uh narratives or or stories or. or claims um they usually have a very. dark bad thread to them they're not a. positive experience and aliens have kind. of gotten uh in large part like that. kind of view by the public if there are. aliens out there it's not entirely clear. that they are benevolent or kind but. that's not how it was at the outset was. it yeah can chalk that up to a dude.

named George uh adamsky I guess adamsky. yeah he was uh he immigrated from Poland. and he uh founded a group called The. Royal order of Tibet in Southern. California in the 30s he was a teacher. of uh philosophy he was you know he was. he was kind of out there a little bit uh. and in 1952 he claimed um that he met an. Alien named. Oran um which is I mean it's got to be. the inspiration from Orson from Mor from.

morc right probably because these were. really popular books at the time yeah I. mean it just sounds like you're saying. Mor calling Oran with a lisp basically. exactly or how I say it now with my. tooth it's like Tyson calling. Oran but his uh narrative was a bit. different he was like Hey this this. alien Oran was a was a beautiful man he. had a high forehead he had hair which is. um as you'll see pretty unusual from uh. the Grays that follow and a uniform on a.

brown. uniform and you know uh was telepathic. could like speak to uh him basically. through his brain and brought a message. of Peace saying hey uh I'm from Venus. and you guys should stop with the. nuclear weapons right um so this was. like how people kind of viewed aliens. visiting us at the time like this guy. was writing these books like they were. non-fiction and people were eating them. up yeah um so there was this idea that.

okay aliens are kind of cool they're. more advanced than us and they have our. best interests in mind and then that. took a serious like left turn um just a. few years later in the late 50s when a. farmer in Brazil named Antonio vs boas. claimed that he had been taken aboard a. spaceship uh and adamsky later claimed. that he had been on a spaceship too but. this was pretty new stuff that he had. basically been abducted and forced to. have sex with what he admitted was an. attractive alien but um was a bit turned.

off by the fact that she barked during. sex and um and then returned to his farm. and this was a this was a brand new this. is new ground essentially that Boaz um. had had started to trod yeah for sure I. mean this is I couldn't find an earlier. one that mentioned any kind of uh you. know sexual assault going on right was. this the first one from what I could. tell yeah yes all right so he was of.

course uh went to a doctor um they. examined him they said he's probably. making this whole thing up yeah but uh. there was a group uh a UFO an early. ufology group that published this. experience anyway and in 1965 it ran in. an international Journal called Flying. saer. review which I got get it copy of one of. those and uh all of a sudden you know. people all over the world are hearing. this story.

uh and this sort of you know was. happening in you know it was. International but it wasn't it didn't. hit the American uh public quite like. the story of Betty and Barney Hill which. really really kicked things off here in. the states yeah because his his thing. came out in that journal in 1965 and the. hill the hills had an experience in. 1961 um they are widely seen as the. first um credible abductees if you. believe in that kind of stuff you.

probably are focused on Betty and Barney. Hill um they were a uh an interracial. couple in 1961 in New Hampshire uh Betty. was a social worker and Barney was a. postal officer and they had taken a a a. delayed honeymoon to Montreal and were. on their way back when they noticed that. they were basically being chased by a. light in the sky and when they grabbed. their binoculars and stopped and got out. of the car they could actually see that. it was a essentially a flying saucer and. that aliens were looking at them through.

the windows and the next thing they know. uh it's 5:00 a.m. they're pulling into. their house uh about 3 hours later than. they had expected to and Barney's shoes. were scuffed and Betty's dress was torn. and they didn't know what had happened. but they were genuinely bothered by The. Experience yeah and you know we'll dive. in a little bit more with them but the. reason that uh you mentioned that they. were an interracial couple is cuz they. were doing uh a lot of work for civil. rights and stuff like that so they all.

that to say they had no reason to in. fact every reason not to kind of come. forward right with this crazy story uh. given their positions of doing like this. you know great civil rights work CU you. know it would just all of a sudden. people would call them cooks and. probably cast doubt on you know the the. genuine good work they were doing so. right they had no reason to make. something like this up and everything to. lose too yeah everything to lose um so. they're trying to figure out out and. make sense of what had happened to them.

because again as you'll see with all. these stories whether or not this. happened or not um Almost Doesn't Matter. in some cases because the trauma that's. visited upon them afterward is very much. real uh just like any kind of potential. false memory so Betty starts researching. uh goes to the library and starts um. looking at books from the ni capap which. we've talked about before n yeah Nik cap. National investigations committee on.

aerial phenomenon and that's you know. that was some retired military officers. and you know UFO enthusiasts who had. gotten together this you know pretty. early research group and uh afterward. they were you know they were suffering. from PTSD especially uh the husband he. was he had pretty severe anxiety from. this yeah he did um Betty had trouble. sleeping Barney had a bunch of anxiety. they just they were affected by this. experience and they had this missing. time that knew they couldn't account for.

and they wanted to know what happened so. they were they were earnestly trying to. look for somebody to help explain what. had happened to them and why their lives. were affected first they went to the. military and followed official channels. because this is when Project Blue Book. was an actual thing and like you were. encouraged to report any like UFO. sighting to the military because they. were investigating it and the military. was like H you know this is not an. important story sorry guys we can't help. you so they turned to their church and.

apparently their church was like this is. way out of our league yeah maybe you saw. God and they're like no it wasn't God. they're like yes sorry we can't help you. either so they turned to Psychiatry and. a psychiatrist named Benjamin Simon. agreed to help them and this was a time. where you were there was a good chance. you were going to be hypnotized if you. were on a psychiatrist couch this is the. early to mid. 1960s and so they were uh hypnotized. over a series of um of sessions and all. of a sudden there these These Memories.

that had been repressed that had um that. covered that chunk of time that they. couldn't account for started to come. forward that's right which was abduction. uh little great creatures you know this. is the sort of the beginning of the. stereotypical gray as we know them uh. gray little skinny bodies the big heads. the big oval eyes they brought them on. board the spaceship and did the you know. the usual kind of stuff which is let me.

probe you let me sample you uh. apparently they put a needle into. Betty's stomach uh which is what they. assume was like a pregnancy test yeah uh. they were very entranced by Barney's. Dentures uh and then they wiped their. memories out I guess uh Men In Black. style MH and that's where the lost time. comes from and these were like these. were real deal super emotional um. hypnosis sessions with a very qualified. psychiatrist but even after all that uh.

the psychiatrist Simon was like I don't. know I think they have a shared delusion. going on exactly yeah so um he he was. like you guys weren't abducted but you. both believe you were abducted and it's. having an effect on you he actually. drilled down a little further and. suggested that it was actually latent. racial tensions that existed in their. marriage that they weren't equipped to. deal with and were were purposely kind. of subverting into these weird you know. alien fantasies but that really that's.

what it was and they were like no dude. you're wrong we were abducted all of. these memories are real and he's like. have you heard of false memories and the. hills were like no we haven't they just. kept moving on so the Psychiatry. couldn't help them either and as they. went further and further along trying to. get answers they kind of were pushed. further and further out of the. mainstream and toward the fringes where. they were welcomed with open arms oh of. course uh the story got published in uh. 1965 a guy named John lri from the.

Boston traveler reported on this UPI. picks it up uh and then a guy named John. G Fuller uh made it into a book in 1966. called the interrupted Journey colon two. lost hours aboard a flying saucer uh. which eventually became a TV movie in. 1975 called the UFO incident which you. can watch on YouTube if you want to see. a relatively young and uh you know. pretty uh in great shape James Earl. Jones yeah it's a good movie uh did you.

watch it I kind of scrub through it. looking for the good stuff and I I. didn't watch it this time I watched it. when I was younger for sure yeah it it. like most of the movie like 85% of it. looks like it takes place in the. psychiatrist office for sure uh and I. didn't see just scrubbing through any. good alien stuff till kind of toward the. end I guess they were just wanted to. wait to uh for the big reveal or. whatever but um Estelle parsons's uh. plays the wife and Barnard Hughes from.

Doc Hollywood he was the old doctor in. Doc Hollywood played Simon and it was a. big deal movie and it was like um you. know it's a t movie at a time when TV. movies were big it's if you're around. these days and you're uh not familiar. with how things were back then a big TV. movie like this could be a sort of a. national phenomenon yeah because I mean. you had a very limited amount of choices. of what to watch on any given night so. if there was a big TV movie They.

promoted the heck out of it and all of. the the whole country could be talking. about it for the next couple weeks you'd. be reading about in the newspaper it. would be a big deal right so yeah and. this was a big deal too um you mentioned. that there wasn't much alien stuff in. there and apparently Betty Hill was very. disappointed um that James Erol Jones. and the producers had um kind of taken. this story that to her was a legitimate. alien abduction story and used it to. explore the themes of like interracial. marriage civil rights being black in a. largely white State um Barney's General.

experience as being a black man in the. in the 60s um and she was like yeah that. probably has something to do with it but. really we need more aliens right it had. a huge it's hard to argue with that. exactly and it had a huge effect too. because um it kicked off so everything. we we know about alien abductions the. the whole narrative the whole thread all. the claims that followed. um are based largely on Betty and Barney.

Hill's experience yeah and it's should. come as no surprise that after that. movie airs a lot more of these stories. start to pop up uh very famous one just. a couple of weeks later after the movie. aired 1975 is when uh the logger uh. Travis Walton in Arizona was you know. beamed up into that spaceship became a. movie Fire in the Sky in. 1993 uh he was gone for about a week.

came back said that he was examined by. what we would Now call the Grays little. short Baldi yeah and uh it just you know. things really start to ramp up almost in. lock step with stories ramping up if. that makes sense they were're kind of. feeding each other yeah by the way. Travis Walton was um roundly exposed as. a hoer and so was everybody in his group. and they they saw it attributed to his. boss the head of this Logging company. wanting to get out of a an un lucrative.

contract with the federal government so. they concocted this story it's a good. way to do that yeah that is so 70s you. know that that's how you would get out. of a. contract uh not a bad movie though Fire. in the Sky was pretty good I never saw. it yeah it's not bad TB Sweeny yeah was. he on Saturday Night Live why do I think. that uh you're thinking there was. another Sweeney Julia Sweeney I know but. I thought DB Sweeney was too no maybe. I'm in Julius Julius.

Sweeney and GE Smith in the Saturday. Night Live band and coming up with DB. Sweeny yeah maybe so GE Smith was great. yeah I saw GE Smith in the Saturday. Night Live band backing up haul and. notes at the first ever concert I ever. saw now my friend I knew you went and. saw Halla notes I did not know that GE. Smith was in this SNL band was the band. Yes and the I think it was the sax. player who wore like the floor length. mink coats like the whole shebang it was. like they took the S live band and.

that's who was touring with Holland. notes and oats was like can you tone it. down and get rid of that coat yeah it's. competing with my hair and. mustache uh all right I think we should. probably take a break yay yay all right. and we'll be right back and talk about. more grays right after. [Music]. this.

[Music]. [Laughter]. [Music]. [Music]. all right so that was in the 60s and 70s. but basically from the 50s on through. the 70s there were all kinds of. encounters and. there were a lot of different kinds of.

aliens uh that people were were. reporting uh ranging from a headless. Wing bat kind of thing uh in England to. a pointy eared glowing eyed creature in. North Carolina and this is when UFO. research groups who are who very much. want people to believe that UFOs and. aliens are real are I get the feeling. behind the scenes are like guys we got. to consolidate around a look here. because all these weird aliens that.

people are reporting are not doing. ourselves are any favors basically so. can we settle on the Grays and they did. yeah and that that somehow or another. that is exactly how it happened and and. it ended up in mainstream pop culture. being adopted like that where like as as. the graay became more and more. widespread it was like a positive. feedback where more people portrayed. aliens as the grace because that's what. aliens look looked like and it just kept. spreading from there until the general.

streamlined understanding of what aliens. looked like was the Grays over time and. I just want to point out that probably. the greatest xfiles episode of all time. Jose chun's from outer space turns this. process on its head where there are two. gray aliens that turn out to be human. actors in costumes who themselves have. an actual legitimate alien encounter. with an alien that looks like one of the. just bizarre kind from the 50s it's like.

has fur it's a cyclops with a horn and. um it has like a chicken legs and that's. like the actual alien and I just think. that's just as as sharp as can be that. that they took that thread and just. Twisted it around I don't remember that. episode I was not an xfiles Watcher at. the time when it aired um I got into it. and the uh although when did it stop you. know like the early. 2000s okay well what I did it was.

syndicated while it was still going then. I guess because I started watching. reruns and syndication in like. 97 um and I don't I don't even know if I. kind of started at the beginning and. watched it all the way through but when. I was living in New Jersey I I ended up. watching a lot of X Files so and enjoyed. it quite a bit it's this is a standalone. episode you don't have to know anything. that's going on to enjoy it if you do. know what's going on it's even more. enjoyable but Jose Chong is this science.

fiction author who's who has a book or. something called from outer space and. that he's played by Charles Nelson Riley. amazing there's stories of the Men in. Black showing up and the Men in Black. are played by Alex tbec and Jesse The. Body Ventura as themselves but they're. Men In Black oh yeah it's a an amazing. episode it's so great so I definitely. don't remember that one you need to go. see it it's really worth it it's worth. your your 44 minutes of your time uh. were you into X Files from the beginning.

like live run or whatever mhm pretty. much yeah yeah when I watch it now. though I used to when originally I was. like God get this stupid monster stuff. out of this get back to the alien. conspiracy right now as a grownup I'm. like that alien conspiracy thing is so. played out I really enjoy the monster of. the week episode way more yeah I think. the the mix of the two was kind of what. made it so great yeah it was very smart. all right so the other thing we should. mention about the Grays is that uh when. Betty uh at one point they had her.

recreate a star map um that uh the. aliens who captured her had shown her. and when she described what she um had. seen uh a lot of people said it sounds a. lot like Zeta reticuli which is a star. system about 39 light years from Earth. and so you might hear them called Grays. but if you ever hear any anyone in the. in the biz I guess refer to the aliens. as Zeta reticulin that comes from that. yeah and like we said a lot of the um.

the just the basics of alien abduction. stories were founded by the hills um. unaccounted for missing time um being. abducted being probed uh sore butthole. yeah exactly all all that stuff. originally with the hills but it it. formed the basis or Foundation that. other people that come just kind of. slowly built on and um there was one. person who contributed quite a bit an. artist from New York named Bud Hopkins.

yeah who who said that he had a a close. encounter I guess it would be of the. second kind where they just saw like a. flying saucer over Cape Cod but it was. an enough it was enough of an experience. that he kind of became I don't know if. obsessed is the right word but deeply. interested in the idea of UFOs and. aliens so he started kind of researching. the whole thing and ended up writing a. book in 1981 called I got to take a deep. breath missing time Co. documented stories of people kidnapped.

by UFOs and then returned with their. memories. erase yeah he didn't want to leave. anything to chance as far as people. misunderstanding what his book was about. yeah colon does that make sense. right colon I'm talking about aliens. baby uh so that was uh you know a pretty. big book and it established that pattern. that we've been talking about of these. abduction stories where you see the UFO. and sometimes you don't remember. anything and you just wake up in bed or.

whatever not accounting for the time um. there was a young woman uh in the book. it was the first time that anyone had uh. claimed to have been um abducted twice a. young woman named Virginia Horton uh. when she was six well I guess she was a. little girl then uh and then at 16 years. old and this also follows a pattern and. that in the second one she followed a. deer into the woods and then woke up at. home with a bloody nose M and following. an animal into the woods is a story that.

pops up kind of uh quite a bit when. you're talking about alien abduction yes. exactly so one of the other things that. bud Hopkins contributed was the idea. that people were being um repeatedly. abducted some people were and that he's. like probably what's going on is they're. being impregnated and then you know uh. they they they give birth and then this. hybrid alien human baby is is born and. that's really what's going on here and. then they take that baby they yeah but I.

I think he also suggested that this was. for the benefit of the human race that. this was that they were actually. benevolent as as um brutal or or um um I. guess uncomfortable as their tactics may. have seemed yeah for sure um so things. are really cooking at this point uh. finally we get to a very very popular. book there was a guy named Whitley. striber um who was a a writer already. and this this really helped you know the.

fact that he was already a writer and. had like the backing of Publishers get. this book out there but he was a horror. and science fiction writer and in ' 87. published the book communion which had. if you if you look up the cover of. communion the illustration that was done. by Ted Jacobs uh along with you know uh. striber because he was like this is what. I saw you got to draw this right that. that is as. stereotypical uh Alien head as you could. imagine on the cover of this very. popular book yeah like if if the graay.

had kind of been percolating throughout. pop culture this is like where all that. all those different threads got pulled. into one Alien image and then from that. moment on that's essentially what the. Graze looked like that that cover. illustration because it was just such a. widely read book um and striber says and. always has said said from what I can. tell he's never broken character if this. was a hoax he's never ever even. intimated that it was. um he's he said that until he started.

realizing that he had been abducted um. he had never really been much into. aliens had never done much research so. um he was giving the impression that all. of his his accounts were were fresh he. went into him fresh like George castanza. right he didn't know what he was talking. about when he when he was writing about. this this was a legitimate memory um and. as he remembered more and more and more. um he realized that this had been going. going on since childhood and that entire.

chunks of his life were fabricated. memories that had been implanted by the. aliens that abducted him to cover up the. memories of his actual abductions and. what they were doing to him on their. ships and so in addition to that cover. alien of the image of the Grays one of. the big things that Whitley striber. contributed to the the whole um I guess. phenomenon is the idea of screen. memories that no no longer was it just. missing time you might not be missing.

time you might not even remember having. been abducted but you just knew you'd. been abducted and if you thought about. it enough or if you went and tried to. get to the bottom of your repressed. memories those screen memories would. fall away and the true memories of your. abduction would bubble up to the surface. yeah and it was a very very big book uh. it became a movie in 1989 Christopher. walking movie um I pretty sure I saw it. back then I don't know if I saw it in. the theater or not feels like a a VHS. movie to me yeah for sure um but Walkin.

played him the if you look up the. trailer on YouTube it's it's a. terrifying trailer uh it it's really. unsettling you should watch it okay uh. with the music and everything they they. portray it as like a horror movie. basically um but he is one that also uh. striber that is who never also claimed. like officially that they were space. aliens he was just like hey this. happened to me me um I'm not saying. they're space aliens necessarily uh he.

actually said they could come from. another dimension or maybe it could be. something else uh I know in one of our. UFO. episodes I talked about the fact that. there are some people who think that uh. the Grays are um just humans from the. future yeah and that that's what we. eventually evolve to look like cuz our. brains get bigger and bigger so our. heads bigger and the actual outer ear is. superfluous to the real hearing. mechanism so that's why they don't.

appear to have ears or noses they just. have ear holes and nose holes and you. know on as we go on the ey eyes are. supposedly getting bigger as we evolve. so that's you know that's one Theory. right or another one is that they're. From Another Dimension not necessarily. from space um one of the other things. that striber contributed uh was the idea. that um you would be probed anally or. sexually in some way shape or form. remember um Boaz the Brazilian farmer.

was the one who contributed being. sexually assaulted aboard a spaceship a. UF by by a hot parking alien woman. exactly yeah but apparently most. Scholars trace the anal probe Trope to. Whitley striber he said that there was a. large object with a network of wires on. the end that was inserted into his. rectum and what's interesting is that. bears a strange um resemblance to what. Barney Hill claimed too he said that he.

had been anally probed uh and that there. was a a needle with a network of wires. or something along that line he didn't. use that exact phrase but that it had. been left out of the book by John G. Fuller that detail had it was only um it. was it only showed up in a 1965 naikap. report so it wasn't well known at the. time although it's entirely possible. that if Whitley striber was a hoer you. can imagine as a writer he would have. done enough research to go back and read. a 1965 report about the quintessential.

abduction experience yeah uh and as far. as the anal probe goes I've given this a. lot of thought over the years uhuh I so. like why that's always a thing and the. only thing I could come up with is that. you know there are only so many holes. only so many areas of. Entry right in your body you know yeah. uh and there are reports of you know. nose probes and bleeding noses and and. stuff like that and I think the. uh the the hidden quality the hidden.

nature of the. butthole might entice aliens to be like. you know they're they see the nose they. see the ears they see all the obvious. ones and then there's like ooh there's a. hidden one right like what treasure. awaits us yeah that's Universal not just. among humans but around the universe. like what is in that. butthole yeah that's a great Theory man. I like that uh so uh yeah that's a. that's just kind of like a little like a. lot of people chalk that up to whight Le. striber which may or may not be correct.

but that is interesting um that was 1989. that the movie Community came out what'. you say 1987 for the book that had a. huge effect the X Files like we said. came along and took all this stuff like. if you watch The X Files back then or. now or whenever all of this is just so. familiar like Chris Carter apparently. read up on the abduction um phenomenon. and just turned it into different plot. lines right so yeah pure gold yeah and. so that just that just spread it out.

into the pop culture even further and. then there was a guy named John Mack who. was the head of Harvard Psychiatry. Department who um was Far and Away the. most credentialed person to to come out. and say um I'm pretty sure these people. are telling the truth in some way shape. or form yeah and everyone was like you. sure you want to go out with this yeah. and he did very bravely he uh he was one. of those people who railed against s. just kind of having its own dogma and.

keeping its head in the sand about. things it couldn't explain he didn't. like that very much so that kind of fit. with his his vibe from what I can tell. but he kind of Lent a little bit of. legitimacy especially if you were on the. fringes the fact that he was saying the. stuff just just gave you so much support. right then yeah he had a book in 94. about 13 different abduction cases. called abduction colon uh human. encounters with alien uh parenthesis BTW. I I teach at Harvard right did I mention.

yeah uh so I say we take another break. and come back and talk about what. Scholars who don't buy the fact that the. these are actual alien abductions make. of all this yeah it gets pretty. interesting after this I. [Music]. think.

[Music]. [Laughter]. [Music]. okay Chuck um there's a couple of nuts. and bolts things you should know about. UFO subculture and um it's so extensive. and it's been around for so long and the. people who are into it are so into it. that just by glossing over we're. probably going to get stuff wrong or.

we're just going to walk past some stuff. we're not experts we've never claimed to. be experts and we're not Experts of UFO. subculture so just want to caveat that. probably should have said that at the. outset of this episode but in UFO. subculture from the the research I've. seen there's a you can kind of divide. people into two groups one are contes. people who have met. aliens and the other is abductees. and those are people who have been taken. by aliens and if you'll remember back to.

our Project Blue Book episode there was. an astronomer named Jay Allen heinik who. was a debunker of UFOs until he just. became a True Believer he's the guy who. came up with the the close encounters. classifications yeah he left off with uh. Close Encounters of the Third Kind. contact what abductees brought to that. was close encounters of The Fourth Kind. where you were taken against your will. into a spaceship and among those two. different groups there's two very. different views of aliens between.

contactees and. abductees yeah for sure if you're a. contact te you're much more likely to uh. relate a positive experience basically. um I I think a lot of the contactees uh. I've read that they feel like they're um. like a feeling of being chosen uh like. in a good way um abductees it's kind of. the other way around there's all kinds. of stories of probing uh consensual. encounters uh medical procedures going.

on uh you know all the stuff that that. you hear about shoving things in. different holes of your body are not. positive experiences for most abductees. uh and it's really interesting I think. that um that the contactees can feel. like chosen or touched whereas the. abductees feel violated it is it's super. interesting um there's also kind of a. subgroup of abductees um those are the. people who have no memory of being. abducted but they're sure that they were.

abducted they probably have unaccounted. time in their in their life that they. can look back on and think like what. happened there they just get the sense. that they're abducted too right so yeah. which is interesting it is super. interesting um I the the thing is this. is really really important I I saw this. in a lot of different places with people. who research UFO abductees they they say. that there are definitely people who are. hoaxers yeah there are definitely people. who have like serious mental illness and.

are actually delusional but that by and. large on the whole UFO abductees are. sane sincere genuine people who who. truly believe that they were abducted by. aliens and whose lives have been in a. lot of cases wrecked by it because they. display the symptoms of trauma they have. post-traumatic stress disorder symptoms. from being abducted and so if you're. like well you know I don't really buy.

any of this as as being alien in in. nature like how would you explain it and. so sociology and psychology have set. about trying to explain it and neither. one's really kind of rung the Bell fully. yet yeah for sure um there is uh there's. plenty of research that's been done um. even though they haven't you know like. you said they haven't come to like a. great conclusion about it but. abductees uh uh their memories um the.

idea is like if you're an abductee or. you claim to be an abductee then you're. probably more prone to false memory and. there are some different tests they can. do uh one is called the uh de rodiger. McDermot uh task. DRM and that's where they give you a. bunch of words that are sort of linked. together but there's a one word they. call it a lure uh word that's missing so. Livia put together an example of uh. snooze blanket snore dream uh pillow bed.

uh they don't use the word sleep in. there very key but obviously that's the. one lure word that's missing and the. people that uh are asked to sort of. recount this and if they insert the. missing word uh that was never mentioned. like if they say sleep then they're. saying all right well you're more. susceptible to a false memory cuz we. never said sleep so there yeah that's. exactly how they present it too at the. end of the study it's very humiliating.

uh but yeah that's kind of one of the. general premises that people who believe. that they were abducted by UFOs and. whose lives are really affected by it. negatively just are more susceptible to. generating false memories and some. research backs that up um there have. been studies that show that they they. they do report more critical lure words. than other people who don't believe they. were abducted other studies say we try. the same thing and. found no difference whatsoever between. the two but we did find differences in.

other psychological traits like dis. associativity like having um like. reality seems unreal to you absorption. which is a predisposition to get deeply. immersed in sensory or um mystical. experiences uh the likelier to have. paranormal beliefs uh likelier to. believe that they have psychic abilities. fantasy proness to difficulty. differentiating between fantasy and. reality and a tendency to hallucinate.

and that so these people are like no. it's not um proness to developing false. memories it's all these other traits. that are basically they're luring these. people into this kind of fantasy world. that they're not distinguishing from. reality um and that that essentially has. become part of their life to them. they've adopted that as part of their. life those seem to be the two dominant. rival psychological explanations for. this yeah and there's another sort of uh. not sort of it sounds incredibly cruel.

uh test that was done or a study rather. when they got kids together um either. seven or eighty olds or 11 and 12 year. olds and they said you were abducted by. an alien when you were four years old um. in fact here's your mom and she's going. to re reinforce this by telling you this. happened and here's a fake newspaper. well they don't say fake but here's a. newspaper report uh that talks about. these abductions being you know pretty. common uh it's it's totally made up of.

course and then if these children go on. to describe uh a lot more detail about. the memory of being inducted abducted. when they were four years old than. they're classified as having false. memories and I just I can't believe that. they were allowed to get away with doing. this yeah from what this one I think a. British. Psychological Association or Society. article found that they could find two. studies that tried to implant false. abduction um memories into kids one was.

from. 1984 um and they actually ascribed. abductions to um basically suppressed or. repressed memories of being born and. then this one from 2009 with Oar and. friends right and like yeah it's deeply. unethical and they they debriefed the. kids they said no this is all just a. study or whatever so you know don't walk. around thinking like this actually. really happened to you but who knows if. that that really worked but it it it. raised a really important point and it.

really as unethical as it was showed how. easy it is for false memories to be. implanted especially if you are being. told that by um someone in a position of. authority like you're psychologist or. therapist or psychiatrist right yeah and. there's a really big um Rift in the. field of psychology in Psychiatry um. between whether you whether traumatic. memories can can be repressed uh and if. so that means they can probably be.

recovered through good therapy or if you. don't actually repress traumatic. experiences and that if you do try to. recover memories what you remember is. going to be false memories that are. accidentally implanted so that whole. premise that you have missing time and. that if you go see a therapist who's. sympathetic and understands what you're. going through they will help you recover. those memories it strongly suggests that. all those are our false memories even. though again they're causing real. legitimate pain in these people's lives.

yeah for sure um and I know we talked. about this and in maybe Project Blue uh. book but some others as far as what else. this could be uh why you're having these. false memories and sleep paralysis uh. always seems to come up uh we did a. episode on this about 15% of the. population experiences it um it's when. you you know wake up in the middle of. the night you can't move you might hear. some buzzing sounds you might see. flashing lights you almost always it.

seems like see um pretty frightening. shadowy figures in your room maybe. hovering above you or at the foot of. your bed uh so sleep paralysis could. explain some of this or theoretically it. could uh and then another one which is. interesting uh uh as far as the. hypothesis goes is magnetic disturbances. by plate tectonics that are causing. hallucinations and uh this is what's. really interesting to me distorted. Recollections of medical procedures.

while you're under anesthesia like as. you're going out I think anyone who's. ever done the Twilight sleep thing for. some you know or major you know surgery. uh when you're fully under it that that. six or seven seconds where you're laying. there with the bright light above you. and people hovering over you it gets. weirder and weirder. and people think that this could be. associated with that because a lot of. the people. who had uh reported abductions had.

undergone surgery recently yeah that's. pretty pretty interesting as far as. coincidences go that's anesthesia. awareness and I think we I think we did. a whole episode on it the idea that you. can have memories if you're not under. quite enough and that if it's a medical. procedure yeah you could remember that. as aliens you know probing you or. whatever sure yeah um that's what it. feels like yeah I would guess so for. sure um I just remember being like man. I'm so.

wasted and reminding myself like oh yeah. I'm allowed to be these people got me. wasted right uh sociology for their part. has has done some study too and just. kind of quickly what they've come up. with is that if you uh are very. religious you're probably less likely to. believe in aliens and even less likely. to believe you were abducted by aliens. but um if you are untrusting of the. government you're far Liker to uh no. surprise yeah to believe that you were.

abducted by aliens yeah that makes a lot. of sense and also the fact that um uh. who is it the Joseph o Baker is a. sociologist who studies this stuff a lot. and he's like post Watergate you saw a. lot of this stuff happening and that's. you know when a lot of people had big. distrust of the government so it sort of. there's a correlation there at least for. sure and then um I say we we wrap it up. on that study by Bud Hopkins the artist. who got real deep into abduction lore.

yeah let's do it okay so um in the 90s. Bud Hopkins worked with some academics. and came up with like a legitimate. random survey um that sought to see how. many of the population like what. percentage of the population believes. they were abducted and they came up with. a like five like a questionnaire that. got to the bottom of whether somebody. felt like they had experienced five. different aspects of abduction right. waking up parall ized with a sense of. strange presence in the room losing an.

hour or more of time that lost. unaccounted for time feeling of flying. which could also correlate with. witchcraft seeing strange lights in a. room and then finding odd scars on your. body and being like I have no idea where. the scar came from yeah so they did that. uh this in the early 1990s they um did. some uh they you know controlled the. data or did some controlling for the. data and they found that 2% the sample. had four of those five related. experiences happen to them which is.

about 3.7 million. Americans uh that number I think U. ufologists and you know people who study. this stuff say you know that number is. really really high uh it's probably more. like thousands um but 3.7 million people. experience at least four of those five. things yeah a lot of people so a lot of. people use that in um in like articles. and stuff on that like 3 7 million is a. big number but yeah I just want to point. out they they had a really ingenious way.

of separating out the fibers from the. outset one of the questions was you know. does the word Trant mean have special. meaning for you and about one% of. respondents said yep that really does I. you know what I'm talking about and Tron. is a madeup word that they use to catch. fibers and I think Tron Don is like a. really great band name too especially. because of the background pass yeah. Space Rock uh good one uh you got.

anything else no yeah I mean the whole. thing's still ongoing there's plenty of. people out there who believe they were. abducted and psychology is still. struggling to to get to the bottom of it. fully so hopefully it will so it can. help all those people whose lives are. affected by it negatively yeah and at. the very least we've gotten some fun. movie and TVs out of it for sure uh if. you want to know more about alien. abductions there's a lot to read out. there and you can do that and in the. meantime we're just going to go ahead. head and have listener.

mail uh Hey guys been listening since. 2013 uh since then you've been with me. through college graduation brain surgery. wow a wedding Co at my teaching career. IVF and our new baby wowe uh since Amber. was born last July I've been catching up. on missed. episodes um in August 2023 I think you. had a couple of UPS about language. acquisition uh this is so in my. wheelhouse because I'm a middle high. school Spanish teacher and it maybe. think of this anecdote relating to. language acquisition I frequently pepper.

Spanish into my daily vocabulary and. also hate squirrels I this is right up. here alley Josh uh I frequently refer to. them in Spanish uh one day last summer I. asked my husband who's a gringo what he. thought the Spanish word for squirrel. was he hesitated and then guessed. bendjo I'll let you look up what that. word actually means but it's definitely. not squirrel uh after listening to the. paros uh social relationship episode I. got too embarrassed to tell you this.

anote anecdote right away after the. language episodes but I decided to send. it anyway now currently listening to the. 2023 Halloween special and hope to be. caught up by June and that is from Becky. Hill thanks a lot Becky and. congratulations to you and your husband. on the birth of Amber and from what I. know about Ben Deo like that's a pretty. accurate term for squirrel yeah okay uh. if you want to be like like Becky and. get in touch with us and just share some. great stuff about your life we love to.

hear that you can send it off in an. email to stuff podcast at. iheartradio.com. stuff you should know is a production of. iHeart radio for more podcasts myart. radio visit the iHeart Radio app Apple. podcasts or wherever you listen to your. favorite. [Music]. shows.