Testosterone and Estrogen: Wondrous Hormones | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW

[Music]. welcome to stuff you should know a. production of iHeart. Radio hey and welcome to the podcast I'm. Josh and there's Chuck and Jerry's here. too back again in the trip of a lifetime. and it's the Three Amigos The Three. Musketeers the trace. caberos stuff you should know that's. right talking about e n o oi o.

hey that was pretty good Chuck I was not. expecting that sometimesi sometimes. there's like a little a little pause in. between you talking and me responding. and it's because I'm just astounded and. that was a good example of. that he did. great yeah ENT baby let's do it okay so. we're talking today about testosterone. estrogen what people commonly think of. are the two um hormones the female.

hormone the male hormone and that those. are what divides us the Sexes are binary. they're bisexual there's male there's. female gender is a totally different. topic as we'll we'll talk about a little. bit but if you have a lot of estrogen. you're a female a lot of testosterone. you're a male and it turns out that we. can trace that that's all like generally. incorrect it's such a such a um a broad. stroke explanation of EST Esten and.

testosterone that it actually has. tripped us up all all this time and just. from researching this Chuck I I learned. like wow this is if we had just never. considered estrogen female and. testosterone male I think our general. understanding of those two hormones. would be so much. deeper yeah and and it's one of those. things where we can trace back to a time. uh where that sort of whole notion came. from and of course you know it's early. science they were trying to figure stuff. out uh but start in about the mid 19th.

century is when scientists started kind. of going wild with um animals and organs. and doing things like uh hey uh Rat let. me remove your testicles and let me put. some ovaries in you and see what happens. and there was a lot of this going on. there was a British physiologist named. Ernest Starling who actually coined the. word hormone from the Greek word to. excite in. 1905 and this is sort of right around.

that time in the early 1900s when there. were other scientists and physiologists. doing all kinds of wacky experiments to. see what happened yeah and we should say. hormones are simply chemical Messengers. that that basically relay messages and. Trigger responses or keep responses from. happening in the body and that estrogen. and testosterone are two kinds of. hormones specifically steroid hormones. meaning they're made from cholesterol. which for some reason I find really. gross.

so well you might find this gross too. then uh there was an Austrian named. Eugene Stein who was doing these kinds. of experiments that I was just talking. about and he was saying like come here. frog let me uh poke around your. testicles and get some liquid out of. there um let me like I said earlier let. me take this rat let me castrate it let. me transplant some ovaries onto this rat. and then observe what happens and styo. was one of those early scientists who. kind of LED to this sort of uh binary.

idea that you know um if you do this. you're going to feminize a rat or you're. going to masculinize a rat if you do the. sort of the vice versa operation yeah. but very very quickly there were people. even back then scientists that were like. oh wait a minute this is uh it's not. quite as binary as you're making it out. to be and there's plenty of examples and. reasons why yeah you can almost lay the. entire problem at the feet of Eugene. Stein that that he was the one who. basically said that humans are bisexual.

is how we put it binary Sexes male. female and it depends on whether you. have testosterone or estrogen um and. like you said he got pushed back there. was one guy in particular an. embryologist named Karl Moore who was. like Hey Stein like stop and think about. what you're saying here like even even. without your you know mad scientist. experiments female rats do all sorts of. like quote male behaviors and vice versa. and even with your your flip-flop um you.

know ovaries and gonad rats they're. still doing behaviors that are are not. easily um assigned to one sex or the. other so I'm not 100% sure that it's. quite as cut and dried as you you um. have have explained it and Eugene Stein. had Carl Moore murdered silence. forever not true at least I don't think. it is is that true I don't think so I. hope not okay I just thought he might.

have just leaned in with the pillow and. gave him the forever hug you know that's. right so uh flashing forward a little. bit to about the turn of the 20th. century is when research got a little. more serious about it and they found. that um extracts from your ovaries could. do have beneficial treatments for things. like hot flashes during menopause uh and. it could stimulate uh what's called. estris which is uh where the word. estrogen comes from but estris is like. when an animal is in heat uh if you've. ever seen a a cat or something or a dog.

in heat uh it's pretty clear that. something uh different is going on right. and that that uh word estrogen in 1906. comes from that word estris uh which is. from the Greek word oyas which means mad. desire it also sounds like a brand of. yogurt. oyas yeah oyos yeah so once once these. guys like this is the beginning of the. 20th century very late 19th but mostly. the first couple Decades of the 20th.

century scientists are starting to. isolate hormones and in particular um. sex hormones and they're like well what. happens if you give them to humans now. forget frogs and rats and all that stuff. um and and what they figured out very. quickly is like you said they like. menopause have been around for a while. and they're like well women have. menopause and estrogen seems to be the. woman's sex hormone let's give them. estrogen and see what happens and it. actually had a pretty beneficial effect. um it it's been long known that.

estrogen uh given as like a drug uh can. treat symptoms of menopause like hot. flashes and stuff and the first estrogen. um I guess prescription drug is called. Premarin which has like a perfectly um. legitimate big Pharma sound to it right. Premarin that's a great name for a drug. but it's even better if you know what it. stands for yeah and this is um well. should we say it stands for or say what.

it is and then what it stands for uh I. think you can do both simultaneously. actually uh well it's not a synthetic. estrogen it was actually a natural. isolated estrogen U derived from uh the. urine of a pregnant horse so Premarin. stood for uh pre pregnant May mayor and. the N from urine so Premarin pregnant. horse urine yeah and it was uh I believe. this is 1939 it was made of like 10.

different. estrogens and was available commercially. in the US just a few years later and by. 1992 was the highest selling drug in the. United States yeah if you want to have a. a good idea of just how crazy the the. pharmaceutical Market has become in the. US Prem Premarin was the I think you. said the most prescribed drug in the. US well the best selling so I guess that. would match yeah the hit.

exactly so this hit single Premarin in. 1997 had revenues of $1 billion pretty. not shabby it'd be about $2 billion. today Humera the second bestselling drug. in 2022 had revenues of $21. billion and isn't that nuts like that's. that's just night and day compared to. how far we've I guess how far we've come. is one way to put it but the upshot is. Premarin was it was a life saver men.

were like hey I'd like you to be. sexually available why don't you take. this horse you're an estrogen and women. were like it solves my hot flesh. problems sold so it actually really was. very popular for a while and it wasn't. until I think um 2002 that it just. dropped off precipitously right yeah and. we should mention too that this was you. know it was obviously for things like. hot flashes but they're also marketing. it uh as a way to maintain femininity as. you age.

uh none other than William masters of. Masters and Johnson's Fame sex crank. yeah said that uh women should use the. drug to avoid falling into the third sex. or the neutral gender which is very uh. off- base to say the least um but yeah. in 2002 things changed because uh there. was um the Women's Health Initiative. released a study about. attitudes um that that really like. changed everything when it comes to. women or people in general think of.

hormone therapy when they said that it. can cause breast cancer heart disease. blood clots and stroke if you take uh. what was called by this time Prim Pro. which is primin and proa as a you know. sort of a cocktail and they they meant. it so much they said we're even stopping. this study but it turns out there was. just a lot of bad reporting about that. right yeah there's a New York Times. magazine article about menopause by a. writer named Susan Dominus who basically.

reported that. um the media just jumped all over it. there was like there's a 26% increased. risk in developing breast cancer if you. take Prem Pro or or generally have. hormone replacement therapy and that's. whopping that's a big a big number a big. percentage but in absolute numbers it's. actually not that big so the average. woman had a a 2.33% chance of developing. breast cancer if you took prro you had a.

2.99% chance so like that was your 26%. increase and in real terms it sorted out. to based on the population at the time. an additional eight women developing. breast cancer out of every 10,000 uh who. were taking replacement hormones nothing. to sneeze at those eight women I'm sure. would much rather prefer not to have. breast cancer but the point was the the. risks of it were grossly overstated and. that it got but it got such a bad R. because of the reporting that for a. couple of decades just trust in hormone.

replacement therapy dropped off and a. lot of women suffered unnecessarily as a. result yeah and I think they didn't even. find that um the transdermal variety was. in fact much safer uh than the other way. of taking it yeah absolutely so like if. you take it orally which is what it was. always before pretty much it has to go. through your liver to be processed and. while it's there it can do all sorts of. nasty stuff side effects that you don't. really want like causing thrombosis and. blood clots that can lead to heart.

disease whereas if you do it. transdermally it just enters the. bloodstream and it does its thing with. minimal side effects so we've reached. the point today where there um your. average gynecologist is probably going. to say the benefits if you're healthy. outweigh the risk of taking it. especially if you are under age 60 and. especially if you're under age 70 and. you start apparently there's a if the if. you have a gap between menopause and. then starting hormone replacement.

therapy of a decade or two then it can. become pretty risky and by the way I. don't have my lab code on right now I. would advise you not to take. gynecological Health advice from me uh. instead ask your doctor but this is what. I've seen from research yeah and that I. mean you say that virtually every time. you meet someone in person I've heard. you say those same words I'm I'm big on. that for sure say hi Josh nice to meet. you I do stuff you should know please. don't take gynecological advice for me. yeah no what comes out of my mouth at.

this dinner party I mean it's just a. smart thing to say it is um so this is. all going on on the estrogen side uh on. the testosterone side and we're going to. you know kind of Bot back and forth. between the two of these uh that was. isolated I believe in. 1935 uh in fact that's when the name. testosterone got its name which is sort. of the the big daddy male hormone and. we'll we'll talk about all versions of. these in a second uh and but on its own. testosterone you know wasn't doing very.

much but when they added estrone which. is a quote unquote female hormone it. became very powerful and in 1939 there. were a couple of guys dude name um I. guess one guy sorry Leopold. rosika uh oh no no there were two guys. uh and Adolf uh bant of Germany they won. the Nobel Prize for chemistry uh by. working on largely testosterone but you. know sex hormones as a whole and none.

other than Mr Adolf Hitler was one of. the early adopters when it came to. testosterone treatment yeah he had low. tea I meant to uh I meant to send you. this um and I'm sorry I didn't but I. turned up something that there's a a in. British World War II military files. there were um like a bunch of ideas of. how to like basically take neutralize. Hitler and one of them was to start. slipping um estrogen into his food and.

that over time it would basically turn. him from a um a a maniac murderous. killer psycho to maybe a little calmer. maybe a little more feminized um and the. whole idea was that if you put poison in. his food he had tasters and the tasters. would die from the poison and he would. know that he was being poisoned that. would not happen with estrogen it would. take place over such a long time they. wouldn't be able to taste it that that. apparently was never even attempted or. certainly not car out but that was.

someone's idea to take care of Hitler it. would have been hilarious dude to see to. see that transition like how they done. that and then just to be able to look. back all these years later and watch the. progression there's a Benny Hill sketch. in there somewhere for sure I think so. so initially uh medically speaking the. the first use of testosterone was to uh. try and cure homosexuality in males uh. which was a needless to say it spe. spectacularly backfired uh because all.

it did was um you know it didn't alter. any orientation it just created I guess. super tops and power bottoms and ramped. up the sex drive oh God and then of. course trans people this was you know. very early in the days of uh hormone. therapy for Trans people it it was. actually going on and in fact we we did. a whole episode uh in April 2019 called. Michael Dylan trans Pioneer uh about the. Englishman who was. uh I mean I think probably the first uh.

person at least from the female to male. transition to use that hormone in 1940. yeah yeah definitely was from what we. could tell and by the way if you go back. and listen to that episode if you're. like oh my goodness um we heard from. listeners we we goofed up the pronouns. on that one because we thought and this. is five years ago we know better now but. we thought it would be a good idea to. sort of uh let the pronouns follow the. Journey of uh of Michael Dylan's life. you know we know better now so just take.

that with a grain of salt yeah good good. COA um and while we're on that we should. probably say we're using male and female. and man and woman just generally a. shorthand a biological shorthand um with. the Advent of trans people um there. there's a much more specific way of. talking about that um specifically we. would we should be saying typically. developing assigned male at Birth or. assigned female at Birth people who. haven't altered their hormones right.

that's tough to say over and over again. rather than man or woman so please. forgive us for that we're not we're not. being disrespectful in that way we're. certainly not excluding trans people. from this because this very much has a. lot to do with trans yeah and we'll you. know that'll come in part two obviously. for sure I say we take a break and come. back and we'll start talking about. estrogen let's do. [Music]. it.

[Music]. all right so we're back with estrogen um. welcome to the studio estrogen how have. you how have you been doing uh so that. is um usually you think of estrogen as. one of the two female sex hormones uh. with uh progesterone. and it is actually a family of three.

hormones the first one being estrone and. that is the that's that's not the money. estrogen that's the weakest one uh it. menopause you know it keeps getting. produced through menopause right it's. made in the adrenal glands it's made in. the ovaries uh it's made in fatty tissue. and it can actually serve as a sort of a. warehouse uh keeping uh place for. estrogen right yeah for sure so here's. where we get to the idea that it's just. misguided to think estrogen is a woman's.

sex hormone and that's it there's so. much more to it the whole reason you. would continue producing estrogen as a. woman in some form or fashion after. menopause I mean if you're not having. sex if you can't reproduce any longer. why would you produce estrogen um you. would produce a weaker version because. it's still doing other things like it's. really important for bone growth and. muscle development and to keep yourself. active there's a lot of stuff that. estrogen does just beyond. forming the reproductive um uh system or.

for sexing females yeah and we also did. mention and this is probably if someone. wants more quote unquote proof uh. estrogen is found in plants like rice. yeah I mean we could just end the. podcast right. here uh testosterone is not found in. plants only in the animal world but. we'll get to that all right the next one. we come to uh that was E1 by the way E2. is uh estradiol which is is this is this. is the money estrogen this is the potent.

one this is made in the ovaries uh of. women and made in the testes of men what. CU once again uh men and women both have. each in different levels uh and this is. the one that really like kicks in during. puberty and then takes a break during. menopause not a break but more like a. retirement yeah it goes to uh. Florida yeah exactly maybe yeah Florida. sure for once I'm just just going to. stick with my original one good estriol.

is another one um this one is mostly. produced during pregnancy uh to help the. uterus grow um and it also helps with uh. breastfeeding it cre it's it leads to. most of the body changes during. pregnancy you can thank estriol for that. and there are other types of estrogen. but typically it's those three those are. the big ones and it's obviously everyone. knows estrogen is the reason that you. have breasts and that your hips f out um.

and that it has a lot to do with a. woman's monthly cycle right and that's. absolutely true that has a lot to do. with everything like that's what. estrogen does but it is again it's. important for um metabolizing uh muscles. for um preventing your muscles from. injury it also contributes to endurance. which if you read about. ultramarathons women tend to dominate. those I was reading about um like short. runs men can outrun women very easily.

marathons typically men win but then as. you get further and further and further. and actually there's a a moment I think. it's. like like 150 miles or some mindboggling. amount of of distance women start to. slowly overtake men and then the longer. you go the the further ahead women um. finish before men in in tests of. endurance like that and they think it's. because they have higher stores of. estrogen which is helping their uh. muscles work better so you also talked.

about uh good for like you know muscle. growth and muscle formation sure um also. estrogen can help facilitate brain. activity um skin elasticity yeah uh. which you know is that why like wrinkles. happen as you age is that because of. drop in among other things in. estrogen I would think so I think it's. also just they've been around the block. so many. times like skin I mean yeah yeah so if. you're a doctor Dr Clark and you're like.

no okay why am I uh why why am I going. uh wrinkly around the eyes here what's. going on with physiologically with my. body you know it's been around the block. makes what more what more can I say and. also don't take any gynecological advice. for me right they'd be like I thought. you were a dermatologist oh I'm neither. oh boy so uh estrogen is something that. uh can affect mood um but you know it's. it fluctuates I think um premenopausal. women have a range of about 30 to 40.

picograms per milliliter but it varies. from person to person and then like we. said it rises and falls during the. menstrual cycle it's not like a set. number uh I think. postmenopausal uh that drops all the way. down from literally zero to 30 and then. for men for guys like you and me yeah uh. we have a range of about 10 to 50 I'm. probably more like 55 or 60 would be my. guess so I'm right there with you buddy.

so again the reason why men would have. it at all is because it's not just the. woman's sex or a female sex hormone it. does other stuff just just I can't say. this enough because it was such a sure. you can like it was a it was such a um. Epiphany for me I'm just like oh I had. no idea that it was this that things. overlap this much yeah I mean I didn't. think it was just like cut and dry but I. knew there was some crossover I didn't. realize just how much Steinbach screwed.

us up um with that whole binary thing. yeah I was trying to make a joke about a. POP act that crossed over but I couldn't. come up with it just think someone send. in a good joke there how about ba B. Bayon she a country I heard about that. was it did you hear it is it good yeah. it's fine I'm not huge in the country. but so it's real country then huh no. it's like dance floor line dance ing. yeah sure it is real country yes but.

it's not like it's not like Hank or. anything like that but it's like a it's. more like G it's like a g Brooks song oh. geez I need to hear I thought it was. more just like hi I'm Beyonce and I put. on a cowboy hat so now no she's from. Texas you know she knows what she's. talking about no that's true uh can we. talk about the big te I don't please. don't quote me on that I'm not in the. bay. hiive I went to that concert it was. great yeah I'll bet can we talk about. the big tea oh we're here huh yeah I.

mean we're going to go back and forth. but tea needs to te needs tea is ready. to speak I think oh before we do I want. to say one other thing about estrogen it. apparently encourages physical movement. and you're like so like with low. estrogen your will to get up and move or. walk across the room or go take a walk. is depleted because your estrogen is. lower it's as simple as that isn't that. nuts yeah cool so yes now we're on to te.

that's right the male. hormone in part yes and there this. that's no joke like for sure estrogen. helps form um females testosterone helps. for males and apparently in the uterus. they're both exposed to copious amounts. of testosterone it's just what. differentiates females from males or. keeps females from developing into males. because I didn't know this either Chuck. we all start out uh as females did you.

know that I think we talked about that. in our puberty episode okay so just bear. with me for a second we all start out as. females um and then we're all in we're. all kind of inundated with testosterone. but females typically have um something. called aromatase which is an enzyme that. converts testosterone into estrogen much. more prevalent in in the fet in the. placenta with the fetus and so it's. basically like batting away all the.

testosterone so the baby comes out. assigned female at Birth pretty. interesting huh like without the. injection of testosterone we would all. be females or without the presence of. aromatases we would all be males that's. right uh and then once things are you. know I guess what that's around the. seventh week or so yeah something like. that uh that's when the testicles start. to produce testosterone that's when the. factory opens up and uh I don't think we. mentioned but testosterone is a member.

of a family of Androgen hormones uh boy. do should we even try and say these or. just say the shorthand I want to say. them knock yourself out uh. andron I practiced andren. andreno yeah I think that's right. dehydroepiandrosterone also known as. DHEA sure. dehydroepiandrosterone sulfate DHEA s. and then dihydrotestosterone DHT yeah.

nice work thanks you get to move on in. our medical competition you could be a. doctor but but I'm not so don't don't. listen to me for geological advice never. never or any medical advice sure uh so. like I said um the the test uh. testosterone Factory is open in about. seven weeks and the reason we went back. and kind of name the others is because. some of that uh testosterone at that age. is converted into the uh.

DHEA right yeah I'm not going to say it. and that is the sort of the money. hormone for making the penis form and. grow and the prostate and about seven. months in is when uh the trigger is. kicked off by testosterone for. testicular descent even though that can. happen after you're born it makes a. hilarious sound oh man where's your. slide whistle I don't have it on me. maybe Jerry will work it in yeah I think.

you actually isolated some slide whistle. Cuts. so don't tell everybody I know um here's. one of the facts of the podcast to me I. had no idea about this but um so male. babies are flooded with testosterone. they don't have a bunch of Aroma taste. to convert all of it into um estrogen so. they become male and all the stuff that. you just mentioned happens but they do. have some Aroma taste and some of that.

testosterone is converted into. estradiol and that estradiol actually is. what forms the male brain so estrogen. forms the male brain starts out as. testosterone converted into estral it. causes the changes in the brain that. create the male brain whatever. snowflake I just I just think that's. awesome like it also just goes to show. you like just how so I mean I just. imagine what an intricate chemical dance.

this is and how just you just adjust. this a little bit and adjust that a. little bit and all sorts of different. outcomes can happen it's just. fascinating oh for sure uh I mean when. you're a little kid there's not a lot of. difference uh between your testosterone. levels if you're um a little girl a. little boy I think usually under 10. nanograms per deciliter uh it's it. puberty where things just go Hog Wild. right and little boys test tone just. shoots through the roof um it rises in.

girls as well but nothing like it does. in boys uh once you become a a big man a. full- grown man like. us you're going to have tea levels. between 300 and a th000 if you know if. you have nor quote unquote normal tea. right uh women have much lower levels uh. between 15 and 70 mhm and this is you. know and little boys it's what it's. what's going to trigger your voice to. change uh your your bone and muscle mass. to to grow you're you know all of a. sudden you're going to have body hair.

and facial hair and stuff like that uh. and also and I think we've talked about. this at some point but it is related to. male pattern baldness but I don't think. they're still at the level where they. can say like hey if you have um high tea. then you're more likely to be bald yes. and that's really really important to. point out dude is that we are not at a. place in um. microbiology or human chemistry where. we're like this this is what this. hormone does and this is what that. hormone does and one of the reasons why.

is because the same hormone can have. wildly different effects depending on at. what stage in a reaction it comes in or. in what tissues or what regions of the. brain or the body it's interacting with. other things so when you add all these. different not just other kinds of. hormones but also like neurotransmitters. and neuromodulators and all this stuff. it just becomes exponentially more. complicated and complex so we're still. kind of at the place where it's like. yeah testosterones for boys and.

estrogens for girls and we're making. tons of Headway but generally speaking. we're still at a very basic level in. understanding what hormones are capable. of and then also on the flip side. looking at behavior and saying like oh. well clearly aggression is related to. high levels of testosterone yeah and. we'll get to that uh coming up in a sec. for sure when there have been lots of. studies well we need to talk about. testosterone dropping over the years. because men don't experience like a a.

drop off in testosterone like women do. with uh menopause and estrogen but uh it. does decline in both men and women. testosterone by about a percentage a. year starting in your 30s uh sort of. early to mid-30s generally although that. can vary as well and it can vary just. from time to time too a man's uh level. of testosterone can can go up or down. fairly dramatically for different. reasons over short periods of time yeah.

and just like with estrogen testosterone. is also responsible for bone growth and. development in remodeling apparently the. testosterone is useful for the hard. outer layers of the bone and estrogen is. for the spongy interior layers mhm it's. cool and also something else that stood. out to me is men's estrogen levels are. roughly similar to women's testosterone. levels under normal. circumstances yeah yeah I guess so right. yeah I think it's pretty interesting I'm.

looking at the numbers they add up well. you were talking about aggression um I. mean should we take a break and talk. about that or should we wait I say we. take a break now we've already the. monkey's already flown the CP. right all right the monkey's out of the. bag the cat is out of the cage we'll be. right. [Music]. back. [Music].

okay Chuck so we're back um we found the. cat put him in the Cradle with the sil. spoon so everything's back to normal. sadest song oh it is it is pretty sad. especially if you like your. dad especially if you had problems with. your dad oh yeah I guess so I guess so. yeah yeah is there any any circumstance. where that wouldn't be a sad song I.

don't know maybe the perfect amount of. care and love from your father and with. with no accompanying abuse gotcha. perfect I I don't know I'm sure that's. very prevalent yeah um so yeah we're. talking about testosterone we're talking. about sex we're talking about aggression. um all of those things seem to be very. much intertwined in the public. Consciousness about testosterone right. the more testosterone you have the more. Stallone esque you are the more likely.

you are to wear like a floor length Mt. coat with no shirt underneath which I. have to say if I could wear that I. definitely would if I could rock that. look it's a good look and uh Josh I. think if you remember I wore that the. exact code in the movie in my film. Nighthawks is that what that was from I. think he wore MTT cod in Nighthawks okay. although he was a cop in Nighthawks you. couldn't afford a Mt coat no way not on. a cop salary not an honest cop. underrated mov. so is it yeah I don't know if it holds.

up great but I thought it had a pretty. good uh ending we won't spoil no no it's. and it's definitely spoil for sure but. and that was my Stallone by the way. people are just like what are you even. talking about why did Chuck slur there. for a little while I thought it came. through loud and clear okay good but the. idea is that like the whole reason the. Rambo films were made particularly two. and three is because Sylvester stillone. experienced a massive spike in. testosterone and had to get it out in. some productive way right oh I thought.

it was because Rambo was no. Expendable I haven't seen those. movies huh no no no it was a joke from. Rainbow to oh well he was also in The. Expendables yeah I know I wonder if that. had anything to do with that line. probably not could be at any I'm sure. there's some people are like shut up and. talk about aggression and testosterone. you're making me aggressive well what if. you neuter a male dog that's a good sort. of first example that's a great entree. Chuck um most people would say that if.

you if you neuter if you remove the. testicles of a a male dog it's going to. become much more submissive much Chiller. probably a lot more fun at parties um. will'll come pick you up if your car. breaks down that kind of thing and there. is some um data that shows that that's. the case that that some dogs are calmer. once they're neutered but the the other. Studies have shown like the exact. opposite is true that dogs can become. actually more aggressive when they're.

neutered which is a head scratcher of a. Puzzler if you ask me yeah I mean I just. went through this with Gibson and um. he's not more aggressive because that's. a aggressive is a weird word cuz. aggressive isn't the same thing as like. you know um heaper no just like a a. excitable puppy like that's not. aggression necessarily yeah but it. definitely did not chill him out at. all yeah yeah I don't know that it's. supposed to but yeah I think some people.

think it does but the idea that it would. make a a dog more aggressive so it had. like no impact on him as far as like his. his energy level went is what you're. saying yeah so imagine if he was. generally like that before and then you. neutered him and then he started like. biting people that's that's what happens. with some dogs and they're like well. that doesn't make any sense whatsoever. one of the explanations is is that we. think testosterone is TI up with. confidence more than aggression and that.

a dog that has this chemical confidence. removed through neutering can actually. become more more nervous and nervous. dogs frequently will bite or bark more. than they they did when they had. confidence via testosterone yeah and. that make that ties in perfectly to the. fact that and this to me is one of the. the facts of the show but they have done. studies and uh male athletes like you. know superior male athletes uh actors. believe it or not blue collar workers.

and confidence artists conmen they all. have above average levels of. testosterone yeah so have it so too all. right case closed so too though and this. is the state of of um study right now. with studying this stuff where we're. relating human behavior to hormones like. testosterone or estrogen like there's. results like that out there but that we. arrive at the question well wait a. minute do do people who have higher.

levels of testosterone naturally. gravitate to those professions or does. being in a profession like acting or. being a con man raise your testosterone. level they're like well hold on okay I. got this we're going to go study. prisoners specifically violent criminal. offenders and see what their. testosterone levels are like sure enough. they found that their testosterone. levels were above average um but that's. still raises the question uh do higher.

levels of testosterone make you more. prone to any social violent Behavior or. does being in prison raise your levels. of testosterone we still don't know at. this point yeah yeah it's pretty. interesting because I think a lot of. people like the general just old way of. thinking was like of course it does. right and what what they're finding they. think is that it's more um that. testosterone is released when you need. it yeah it meets the occasion right it's. not the thing that's driving the.

behavior it's like oh this guy says it's. go time we better release some some. testosterone to keep it going yeah uh. this next thing is super interesting to. me um you know moment to moment. throughout your day you're going to your. testosterone is going to rise and fall. some uh and they have found that if you. lose uh like a running race or a one-on. or basketball game or or a arm wrestling. match or even a chess.

match you will lose testosterone so it's. it's not even necessarily can be. something as cerebral as a chess match. but losing reduces your testosterone. winning increases and boosts your. testosterone and they even found this is. crazy to me uh that uh they sampled male. voters for like an election and just. your candidate losing causes a drop in. testosterone. yeah isn't that. nuts that was among McCain voters.

because it was the 2008 election yeah. it's crazy yeah it's it's like it's. unbelievable like winning and losing. even if you're not uh participating. other than voting yeah so um they they. also found that they think that social. expectations can kind of modulate. behavior right and this this kind of. ties into that idea that um testosterone. kind of um helps Foster a response.

rather than triggering a response right. right so essentially what they found is. that with testosterone levels we can. correlate it as far as if if you are. having if you're faced with a fight ORF. flight situation and you choose to fight. you probably are experiencing an up uh. tick in testosterone levels again that. you didn't have testosterone and now. you're choosing to fight they think the. exact opposite is true that you've. chosen to fight and your testosterone. levels go up on the other hand they.

found that if you choose to flee or say. not be aggressive your cortisol levels. your stress hormone levels increase so. our response seems to be based on what. we think Society will either reward or. punish and then based on our decision. from that our hormones kick in to help. kind of carry out whichever response we. decide to go with so one other thing. that I found was that um that surprised. me is that testosterone isn't just made. uh in like the testes or the ovaries.

depending on your sex assigned at Birth. um but that it's actually made locally. in the brain and that testosterone can. also be transformed into different types. of estrogen in the brain too and they. think that locally produced is what it's. called um testosterone in like our our. neurop Pathways um has much more of an. effect on Behavior mood that kind of. stuff than the stuff that's made in the. testes or the ovaries and that actually. accounts for some of the baffling. results we've gotten where you know if.

you if you take the a blood sample of. somebody and find that they're they they. were just being aggressive but their. blood doesn't show any kind of Spike and. testosterone well that would account for. that because it's not the stuff that's. floating around in their blood that's. making them do that it's the locally. produced testosterone in their brain um. that's you know connecting with their. amydala or something like that it's. making um that's helping them their. aggressiveness I guess along and now I. know everyone wants to get to the uh the. part about sex and what what.

testosterone does there and testosterone. um does you know sort of directly ramp. up the sex drive in men and women uh and. they have done trials where they have. shown that it increases the libido but. um just because your tea Falls doesn't. necessarily mean it's going to uh. decrease your libido it can but it. doesn't it doesn't mean it has to right. uh um yeah again that's just there's. baffling results we get sometimes from.

um just studies of of what we presume. has to do with testosterone or estrogen. and and it just doesn't quite Jive all. right so I guess now we can sort of. finish up with um some talk of interex. people and where we stand now with. hormone therapy right yeah because one. group that there's a lot of different. people besides um postmenopausal or per. menopausal women who take a hormone. replacement therapy um inex people. people who are born with ambiguous.

genitalia because like we mentioned that. that whole amazingly intricate dance of. chemicals and hormones uh during um. development fetal development can just. take one step to the left or one step to. the right and all of a sudden there's. just a different outcome that happens to. some people and some people take hormone. replacement therapy to um either become. more like uh the the gender they presume. that they would have been assigned at. Birth or the gender that they feel like. they were assigned at Birth but their. genitalia doesn't quite match there's a.

lot of different outcomes uh that are. basically considered conditions that you. can kind of help alleviate with hormone. replacement yeah for sure uh another one. and I'm pretty sure we talked about this. in our female puberty episode was uh. starting in the 1940s and maybe even. before that um estrogen therapy and. hormone uh treatment could help uh. basically what they would say like you. know you don't want your daughter to. grow too tall so they would use a uh a. hormone blocker yeah you don't see that.

as much today it was called precocious. puberty which is you know still a thing. that can happen I think if you enter. puberty I think it's like a year or two. too or what's considered too early or. you know just with outside of the normal. range um you can also use these hormone. blocking drugs uh I mean they still use. them today but that it's not like so you. don't grow Too Tall it's basically just. to save off puberty and to Halt. precocious puberty and it's tracks uh. also if you are a trans kid uh you can.

use a hormone blocker to just sort of. Hit the pause button to give you a. little time to decide what kind of. puberty to go through yeah because once. you go through puberty uh particularly. if you think it was the wrong puberty. for the gender you identify with there. are going to be changes that are. essentially irreversible aside from. surgery like if you go through female. puberty uh but you a trans male um you. you're still going to have breasts that. have to be removed or if you're.

transwoman and you went through male. puberty your vocal cords are going to. think you're going to have a deeper. voice and maybe an Adam's apple surgery. will have to remove that that's how. powerful the the hormones that get. released and the amounts that they get. released in during puberty so if you're. not quite sure which gender you belong. to yet using hormone blockers can. actually help kind of like you said buy. you some time until you figure out which. way you want to go yeah as far as. testosterone therapy goes uh if you have.

a a deficiency in testosterone because. of hypogonadism or maybe from HIV or. something like that it's obviously um. going to help with that uh also problems. like and here's where it gets a little. tricky um depression uh low muscle mass. low energy there's some evidence that. can improve sexual function but not as. much that it can increase your low. energy if you're just sort of losing. testosterone at that normal rate of like. one uh what was it I can't remember the.

um 1% a year I think is it 1% yeah 1% a. year um but if you have an actual. deficiency they've shown that it can. improve uh sexual function and just. don't have as much proof with energy. level so does that mean that the ad that. has Frank Thomas and Doug fluty in it. talking about how they're like crushing. their workouts that actually doesn't. work well I I don't know if they're just. saying if they're claiming they just. have a natural decline an age or if they. had a deficiency to begin with cuz. that's that seems to be the.

differentiating factor yeah for sure. yeah who knows I mean let's call up Doug. fluty and let's get him on the horn. exactly uh you got anything. else uh no I got nothing else I got. nothing else either this is a very. enlightening podcast episode I should. say a lot of stuff I didn't know about. and now I know more and you still. shouldn't take my advice medically. speaking never uh since Chuck said no. ever after a nice hearty chuckle it. means it's time for listener.

mail hey guys I was turned on your show. about 6 months ago and have been uh. rapidly consuming multiple episodes each. day going back and forth to work I heard. this the school bus yellow episode this. morning and thought you might not have. found this little nugget uh you pointed. out Mr seir uh sire was credited with. the standardization uh I believe you. also noted some other districts had. already turned to Bright paint jobs on. school buses but on March 23rd 1931 the. Pleasant Hill tragedy near toer Colorado.

uh was because had a blizzard that came. in that morning School shut down sent. the kids home and one of the school. buses ran off the road stuck in the snow. for 30 plus hours resulting in the death. of five of the 20 students and the bus. driver oh my God uh the aftermath. theorized that a brightly painted school. bus would have been much easier to spot. in the white out and might not have sat. waiting so long to be found so buses in. Colorado adopted the yellow Stander by. 1939. and the proposal for Mr sire uh became a.

National Standard uh unfortunately it. was a reactive not proactive solution. brought on by by a spring blizzard on. the plains of Eastern Colorado that is. from John Colts and I was just curious. John didn't say I guess that school bus. might have been white I would think so. yeah not a great color in snow no for. sure uh thanks a lot John that was a. really amazing email never heard of that. one that's terrible uh if you want to. bring us down terribly like John did you. can send us an email wrap it up spank it.

on the bottom and send it off to stuff. podcast at iheartradio.com. stuff you should know is a production of. iHeart radio for more podcasts my heart. radio visit the iHeart Radio app Apple. podcasts or wherever you listen to your. favorite. [Music]. shows.