SYSK’s Fall True Crime Playlist: Who Committed the 1912 Villisca Ax Murders? | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW

[Music]. Moving on with our next episode in the. playlist, this one's on a horrific and. truly saddening multiple axe murder in. Iowa in 1912. To some it looks like a. random act of violence committed by. someone who is a stranger to the. victims, but some odd clues also point. to it as the work of possibly someone. who knew all of the people who died, which included children. This one is. harrowing, interesting, and bizarre.

[Music]. Welcome to Stuff You Should Know from. howstuffworks.com. [Music]. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm. Josh Clark. There's Charles W. Chuck. Bryant. There's Jerry. Put the three of. us together, add a little mystery, a lot of mayhem, you got Stuff You. Should Know. And one axe. Yeah. Axe. How many is this? Three?

We got Lizzie Borden. Yep. Uh. Hinterkaifeck? Yep. And then this one. I. couldn't think of any more. Well, I. looked It's funny cuz I looked I was. like, I wonder if we could do a spin-off. show just on axe murders. Um. and Wikipedia had 30 listed. I'm surprised that it's It's like 10. mentioned in this this article alone. Mhm. Well, we'll see why there are so many. axe murders. This this um this whole. researching the Villisca axe murder.

kind of solved a question I've had that. I didn't realize I knew had. How to. pronounce Villisca? We just settled that by calling the. Villisca Town Hall. I know. That was a. pretty great moment. Right before we. recorded, I was like, are you sure it. isn't Villissa? And Josh called the Town Hall. and lied. I did. Well, it was kind of a bet that. you settled. We just never put money on. it. So, if you are whoever answers the. phone at the Villisca Town Hall. >> Mhm. Um first of all Thank you. Um you got a.

call today, so congratulations. And second of all, you just spoke to an. internet celebrity. I don't know, man. I. think Villisca is on the map and it is. 100% because of this this murder. Well, if you just type in Villisca Mhm. almost. all you see is stuff about this axe. murder. Well, yeah. The site. villiscaia.com. is entirely dedicated to this axe. murder. It's It's a It's a pretty big.

deal. Yeah, no. It's just It doesn't. mention it at all, but all of the copy. is just in the outline in the shape of. an X. [Laughter]. They just talk about like their boys. club and stuff that they're doing, their. 4th of July parade, but. >> Right. it's in the shape of an X. Yeah. The population and elevation is in a. drop of blood coming off of the axe. Yeah, it says population not as much as. it was. on June 9th. That's morbid. 1912. Did. you uh did you hear about this before? Well, I think after Hinterkaifeck we had.

some emails. >> Mhm. from probably local uh. Iowans. Iowans? Iowans? Iowanians. Uh saying, "Hey, you guys should If. you're into the. not into axe murders, Get a load of this. If you're into. reporting on grizzly crimes, you should. check out the one we had in 1912." Yeah. And they were right, man. This is Woo. So, before we get into it, I think it. goes without saying, listeners, that. this is a very horrific grizzly.

crime that we're going to talk about in. some detail. Right. So, uh listen at your own. discretion. Axe murder is in the title, everybody. >> Yeah, just want to make sure we cover. ourselves here. This is one of the most. brutal. crimes in American history. Yeah. And a. lot of people don't know about it. Man. Well, let's let's uh let's stop. jabbering and get to criming. Okay? All. right. Where did Where was Where was. this from, by the way? Uh well, one of the articles we. researched was from Mike Dash of the.

Smithsonian Magazine. They do great work. Great work. Um there's another guy named uh named Ed. Epperly who we have to give a shout-out. to who has like a whole site called Ask. Ed that's dedicated to this murder. Guys. researched it for like 55 years or. something like that. >> Did he write one of the two books, probably? Sure. Yeah. He's widely known. as the expert on the Villisca axe. murder. He knows everything there is to. know. And he's got a really fascinating. site. If you're even remotely into true. crime and this thing floats your boat,

go check out Ed's site and you will just. spend days poring over it. Yeah, one. thing I realized in researching this was. it was way easier to get away with. murder Yeah. in 1912. Yeah. Um Yeah, but. there's there's a lot of um agreement. that had this been done today Yeah. they. would have caught the guy. very quickly. >> Sure. But yeah, in 1912 it was like, well, you wear gloves and you just. confounded their only means of. detection, basically. So, I don't know.

An eyewitness. Pretty much. Yeah. So we. keep saying 1912, specifically like you. said, June 9th, 1912. >> Well. In the little town. >> Well, it was one of those things where. it crossed over into midnight. So June 9th, 10th. Depends on if you're. still at partying. Potato, potato. Villisca, Villissa, right? >> Yeah. But at 508 East Second Street in. Villisca, Iowa, which is in the county. of Montgomery. in the southeast of the state, I. believe. Not as far from here as I.

thought. No. I didn't. >> looked at a map and I was like, wait. I. was there. I thought Iowa was like. basically in Canada. No. Huh. Where is it? It's Well, right in the. middle of the country. I did not realize. that. >> Like it doesn't look further west than. like Dallas. I I can believe that, but it was the. north that gets you, the northern the. northward direction. That's what gets. you? Sure. So, on this night, June 9th, 10th. 1912, in this little house there were.

eight people sleeping. There were a mom and a dad Yeah. Joe and. Sarah Moore. Uh-huh. And then their. four kids. Um what were their names, Charles? I. believe uh Herman, Catherine, Boyd, and. Paul. >> Right. And then downstairs, there were. two additional people sleeping in the. house, little Lena and Ina Stillinger. And they were just having a sleepover,

right? Yeah, they were friends of. Catherine, the oldest daughter or the. only daughter, I guess, of the Moores. Um and the whole group had been at. church. They were Presbyterians. And they had been at church um. that day. It was Sunday for a special. Children's Day mass. that Mrs. Moore had helped put on and. the kids had all participated in. Sure. And at that mass, uh Catherine had asked. her two friends, Lena and Ina, the. sisters, to spend the night. And so they.

came back home with the Moores from the. Children's Day mass, and by I think 10. or 10:30, they were all at home in bed. and the lights were out and the house. was settled and dark. Yeah, man. The. Stillinger girls I mean, this is all. very sad, but anytime I hear of a. fateful turn like, "Oh, yeah, we just. spent the night there that night." And. things go bad, that always I don't know, bothers me more. >> Yeah, for sure. Twists of fate are. terrible, especially when they result in. terrible deaths. So, uh.

very late at night, like you said, after. midnight, um someone crept in to the. back of the house, which was not locked. Uh that's up for debate. Oh, yeah? Mhm. All right. Locked or unlocked, they got. in without raising suspicion at least. >> Right. Yeah. Uh two-story house. And this is a small town. This is um. there were I don't even think 2,000. people living there then and I think. even less now. than they were back then. Yeah. One of those places. Mhm. Um So, this.

person, and I think by all accounts we. can safely say it was a man. uh creeps in this house. uh with an axe. from the property. Yeah, it was Joe. Moore's own axe. Yeah, and as we will. see, apparently um they call these uh. weapons of convenience because. back in the day. every single house in the US had an axe. like in the front or backyard. That just. explained it. That was the question I. didn't realize I'd had. Why were there.

so many axe murders at a certain period. of time in American history? It's. because everybody had an axe. Yeah, and. you would leave it just, you know, uh like chopped into the the stump that. you used. as the chopping block or whatever. It'd. be like a weapon of convenience. Yeah, these days you would have to kill people. with like a mailbox. Right. Just some something that everyone. has. >> Like a silicone spatula. Or a high-speed internet cable. There you go. Chop somebody with that.

Yeah. Okay. All joking aside, so this uh this. dude creeps in there. He's got this axe. He gets and this is very key here. He. gets the the lamp, an oil lamp from uh. the dresser inside the house. He takes. off the the chimney, the glass uh you. know, chimney. >> Cover. And takes it off, bends the wick. in half uh so the flame is smaller, lights the lamp, and then turns it down. really low, and then commences creeping. Yeah. With an axe in hand and this.

low-light um oil lamp in the other. >> Chimneyless lamp, which we'll see is a. big clue. Yeah. So, he goes up the. stairs. Apparently. so he passes the Stillinger girls first. >> Yep. Goes up the stairs. He He passes the children's bedroom, and. then opposite, I believe, the landing. from the children's bedroom are Joe and. Sarah's room or is Joe and Sarah's room. They're sleeping. And he sets the oil. lamp down, I believe at the foot of the.

bed. And he raises the axe over his head. and using the flat. the flat end, flat side of the axe, not. the the sharp blade side, but the other. side. He delivers a blow to Joe's head. Joe, I believe was lying on his back, even though the Smithsonian article says. something different. >> Yeah, raised it so high he even gouged. the ceiling, correct? >> Yeah. Brought it down hard on Joe's. head, probably killed him instantly from. that one blow. >> Yeah. Then, apparently, he didn't.

disturb Sarah at all because he did the. same thing to her, and both of them were. found in a a position that they would. have been sleeping, and there wasn't. like the bed clothes weren't ruffled, there wasn't a their arm wasn't up to. defend themselves. Right. They they died. in their sleep, it appeared, right? Yes. Uh so, he kills the parents um. either immediately or they they die. probably pretty quickly. Uh leaves the. room and goes next door, and this is. really just almost too awful to talk.

about, but he kills all the children in. their sleep. >> One by one, but again, without waking. any of them. Yeah. Uh by the time he got. to the Stillinger girls uh downstairs, um. it seemed evidence points to the fact. that they may have awakened finally. One. of them, the older one, Lena, I believe. is the older one. And then he he. dispatches with both of uh them in the. same manner. Yeah. Grizzly, awful, awful. murder. So, that's bad enough, right?

This guy just went around and murdered. eight people, six of them children under. the age of 12 yeah, or 12 or under. um with the blunt end of an axe. That's. bad enough. But then, it just gets a million times worse, and. this is probably why this axe murder is. is. just part of American history, whether. we like it or not. So, what the guy does. next is um Well, he took the axe and he. flips it over and he takes the um. the sharp side and he goes around and he.

starts bashing everybody's head in, one. by one. Um apparently, Joe was later. found to have been struck as many as 30. times in the head with the axe. >> Yeah. Um just one by one, he went around. and. completely caved in the head and face of. all of his victims methodically. throughout the house after they were. dead, which is a bizarre, horrible thing. to do. Yeah. So, then it gets.

a little bit strange. He um. He goes around to the rooms and all over. the house, really, and does different. things in each one. He covers uh windows. with sheets and things. He covers. mirrors. >> Yeah, all the mirrors in the house were. covered. >> the faces of I believe all the victims, right? Yeah, one way or another, um I. believe all of their faces were covered. >> With either sheets or pillowcases, or I. think in the case of the girls, he. pulled their dresses up over their.

faces. >> Yeah, we'll talk about that in a second. Uh. yeah, it's it's very um. I I I think in the serial killer or. psychopath mode, though, I've heard of. stuff like that before, though. Right, like. you you get the idea that they they. don't the the murderer doesn't want the. victim looking at them. >> Yeah. Which may also explain why he. bashed their faces in. >> Yeah. Um so, the guy. apparently, hangs out for a little.

while. Um. >> He does other weird things, though, with. the bacon. He grabbed a 2-lb slab of. bacon, and I saw elsewhere that there. was another slab of bacon found in the. house, but. there was at least one 2-lb slab of. bacon that he wrapped in a dish towel. and then left on the floor of one of the. bedrooms. >> So weird. >> There was a bowl of bloody water that. was later found. He he washed himself. off. He washed off the axe. Um although. he left it behind. Um and he apparently.

hung out for a little while in the house. before leaving, sometime before 5:00. a.m. So, the murders took place around. midnight. Yeah. And then come 5:00 a.m., the house is dark still. It's 5:00 a.m., so that's not the weirdest thing, although we're talking about Iowa, so. plenty of people were up at 5:00, including the neighbor, a woman named. Mary Peckham. And she noticed that there. wasn't anybody up at the house, which.

was a little odd. It was a Monday. morning now. And um. by 7:00, she thought it was just. downright eerie that there was no sign. of life at the house. She went over and. let the Mores' chickens out so that they. could peck around and feed. Um she called Joe Mores'. um store and said, "Hey, has has Joe. showed up?" and found from the employee. that he hadn't. And finally, one of. those two gets in touch with a guy named. Ross Moore, Joe Moore's brother. And. Ross comes over and unlocks the door.

The front door was locked. And um he. goes inside and he comes almost. immediately rushing back out, calling. for the local marshal to be called. Yeah, basically, he gets Hank Horton is. the marshal's name. He gets him on the. scene. And this this is where things just kind. of go berserk. It's it's such a small. town, such a grizzly crime. Mhm. Um. any chances of preserving a crime scene,

and this is 1912. I don't even know how. much a small town like this knows about. preserving a crime scene at the time. Um. but any hopes were lost within those. first few hours after the discovery. because. by all accounts, there were 100 or more. people that went through that house from. doctors to coroners to investigators to. just towns people Right. >> that were allowed to just go in there. and check things out. >> Yeah, so the the first group that comes.

with the um. the marshal, Hank Horton, right? Was two. two doctors and a minister. J. Clark. Cooper. >> Right, great doctor name. Uh J. Clark. Cooper and Edgar uh Huff and Wesley. Ewing, who was the minister of the. church. >> They were the first contingent to make. it into the house after Ross Moore came. running out. >> Yeah. So, they go in and uh they know. enough to not disturb things too much. >> Yeah. Another guy gets brought in, um.

L.A. Lingquist. He's the coroner. >> Yep. Uh he tries to take some notes. about the crime scene, but the person. who um got the most information was. another doctor. His name was um F.S. Williams. >> Yeah, F.S. Williams was the one who. examined the body, and at a later. inquest, um he had the most details to. offer about the bodies, the positions, all that stuff. So, when those guys. walked in, they were. at least well-versed enough to know. not disturb.

things as much as possible, or at least. more than the towns people knew. >> Yeah. And F.S. Williams allegedly came. out of the house pretty shaken and said, "Don't go in there, boys, or you'll. regret it till your last day." Yeah. And. the towns people said, "Nuts to you, we're going inside. We want to see some. dead bodies.". >> And they all regretted it probably till. their last day. >> Yeah, cuz they they not only messed with. the crime scene, they poked around. There was supposedly the town drunk took. fragments of Joe Moore's skull as. mementos. Like the the crime scene was.

toast, like you said. If if it could. have ever been preserved, it was toast. And even the local druggist showed up. with his camera to help preserve the. crime scene cuz he heard that the towns. people were were tramping all over it. Um and Ross Moore, not understanding. what he was doing, threw the guy out, thought he was just being a ghoul trying. to get pictures. So, the crime scene is. utterly and completely lost. Yeah, and. uh one of the things about uh. Velasca, I almost said Vasila,

is that it it was a train town. There. were about 30 trains every day that went. through there. And so, by this time, unless this person was local and maybe. hiding out locally, um by all accounts, the murderer had. probably hopped the train was out of. there by that time. But they didn't they. didn't realize this until they had. already released some bloodhounds, they. searched the countryside. Um there was. like a pretty pretty big search to find. whoever did this, and they didn't find. anybody. So, the town was just.

terrified. Town of 2,000 people, eight, including six children, had just been. murdered with an axe in your town, and. now the sun's starting to go down, and. nobody's been caught. All right, so. let's take a break, and we'll come back. and talk about uh suspect number one. right after this. [Music].

Okay, so suspect number one um might be. a little surprising when you first hear. that he was a state senator. Uh very. um. well well well-respected by some as a. local businessman and um a very. prominent Methodist. Uh seems the town.

was pretty sharply divided between. Methodist and Presbyterian. You know, those days. Right. And that stuff mattered to those people. Um. and his name was Frank Jones. And. uh. Methodist immediately said, "No, uh he's he's got to be innocent. This is. a fine upstanding member of our church. Presbyterians are like, "No, it's got to. be him.". And at first I was like, "Well, why. would it be the state senator? None of. this makes sense." There were a couple.

of big. things that made people believe that he. could be the guy. Joe Moore worked for him. for 7 years and was one of his best. salesmen. on his farm equipment. team. And apparently he left in 1907. and was not too happy with the work. hours, which were 16-hour days, 6 days a. week. Who would be? It's like us. And then set. up a rival business and even took one of. the clients, the John Deere company.

Yeah, that was a big one. I'm sure. So. big that when Sarah Peckham called. Joe Moore's. employee to tell him the news. >> Yeah. Joe Moore's employee called the. John Deere people in Omaha to let them. know. Oh, sure. They were like the third. people called after the bodies were. discovered. So he takes John Deere with. him. So this set up an obvious rivalry. And. worse than that, apparently um. I don't know if this is super confirmed,

but. at least the rumor was that Joe Moore. had slept with. Jones' daughter-in-law. From what I. understand, beyond a shadow of a doubt. that's been that's understood as true. >> That's true. Yeah. So he slept with his. daughter-in-law who apparently. kind of had several affairs in town and. was not very discreet. Yeah, apparently according to Mike Dash. at Smithsonian, she used to set up her. her meet-and-greets. over the phone.

>> I think it's called a liaison. Oh, that's right. Over the phone and this was at a time. when there was a switchboard operator. running the phones in the town. >> Yeah, they could listen in on. everything. >> and listened, yeah. And this lady. obviously didn't care. So. apparently it was pretty well known that. that Joe Moore had had an affair with. F.F. Jones' daughter-in-law. Yeah. Which. is huge. You put those two things. together. They were not friends. The. fact that apparently they used to cross. to the other side of the street to keep. from from from encountering one another.

>> Yeah. Um. that that's that's a big deal in that. town, you know, small town, right? Yeah. >> So suspicion fell on to F.F. apparently. from what I understand within a couple. hours of the bodies being discovered. Yeah, and and suspicion not that he may. have done it, that Jones was actually. the killer, but maybe Jones, cuz he was. 57 years old and and probably had some. pretty good money, clearly. >> Oh, yeah, he was wealthy. He was. building a bank overseeing his his new. bank being built when he got the news. that the bodies were discovered. >> a bank, you're you're rolling in it.

>> Yeah. So everyone thought that he. probably hired somebody out to kill him. And there was a a very the Burns. Detective Agency there was a detective. named James Wilkerson who said, "You. know what? I think you're right. I think. he hired someone. I think that man's. name was William Mansfield." William. Blackie Mansfield. He was already. No, he wasn't already. He would later be. I believe convicted of an axe murder. himself. Yeah, which is probably one of. the chief reasons he was suspect. Well,

no, that that came a couple years after. I believe. That was like 1914 or 15 that. he murdered his wife her parents and. their child their child, his child. >> with an axe, right? This guy was a bad. dude, but there was one problem with. James Wilkerson's theory. Blackie. Mansfield had. an airtight alibi. He was in Illinois. hundreds of miles away when the crimes. occurred. Not only did the foreman vouch. for him, but the payroll records showed.

very clearly that he. had not been in Villisca that day. and couldn't have done it. Yeah, so he. was exonerated, but um. a lot of townspeople still thought that. that you know how it was back then and. still is today to a certain degree. >> Sure, especially in a small town. >> Yeah, people were convinced that he was. the guy and a lot of people probably. went to their graves thinking that. So. even though Chuck that Mansfield was. exonerated and and like you said, a lot. of people thought that Jones, F.F. Jones.

apparently went by F.F. did have something to do with it. The. Stillinger girls' father and Ross Moore, Joe Moore's brother, both thought F.F. Jones was behind this. >> Right. And and Wilkinson made it like. his personal mission to take Jones down. and apparently ruined his his political. career, cost him re-election to the. state senate. >> I would think that probably happened. anyway. Just from suspicion, but Maybe, but I think like there's something. between townspeople suspecting you and a.

detective like bringing evidence against. you and getting a grand jury Yeah. >> to to indict you. It was like the good. old days when you could be suspected of. an axe murder and still win a senate. seat. >> Right, exactly. The. but Jones he didn't win re-election. No. And. yeah, apparently to the to their dying. day some people assumed that it was him. behind it. Another candidate. candidate? suspect Sure.

I think candidate's not the right word. Lynn George Jacklin Kelly. the man with four names. He went by. George Kelly though. He was an. Englishman. Um. which was probably a little weird at the. time. Sure. >> Be living there? No one had ever seen an. Englishman in Iowa. Maybe. He was a. preacher though and it says in this. Smithsonian article, a known sexual. deviant. He definitely had some mental health. problems, but um. there were some things in his case where.

it's sort of. were suspicious and others that made him. not a great suspect. >> Mhm. One of which he was a little guy. He was 5'2", 119 lb. So. maybe not the best um. suspect for swinging an axe like that? Yeah. Yeah. Although, you know, he could. have been strong as an ox, you never. know. Sure. Some of those little guys, you know. Yeah, but they're usually good with like. jujitsu sleeper holds rather than axe. swinging, you know? They just scramble. up on top of you and before you know it.

their legs are around your neck and. you're losing consciousness. >> thumbs are in your eyeballs, that kind. of thing. >> Yeah, so fair enough. But he was left-handed and the coroner. Lindquist did say that. you know, from their analysis, as. rudimentary as that might be in 1912, they could probably at least determine. that it was a left-handed assailant. From the blood spatter, I believe. Yeah, that's how they did it. >> On the walls. So good good for them for being that. advanced. >> So there were some other things that. that implicated George Kelly. One, he.

was in Villisca. He was a traveling. preacher. He and his wife toured around. and they were in Villisca the the day of. the murder. They were actually at the children's. service Yeah. that the that the Moores and the. Stillinger girls were at. Again, this. guy was a sex maniac is what he was. known as. Yeah, I kind of wonder about. that. And. >> mean he liked to have sex? I guess. There were he placed an ad and this was. in the 1910s. He placed an ad in the.

Omaha World-Herald. looking for a. a stenographer. who would be willing to pose as a model. And when one one woman named Jessamine. Hodgson replied to his ad, he sent her a. letter. Apparently it was quite lewd. So much so that the court that that. heard the case against him um. said that. it was so obscene, lewd, lascivious, and. filthy as to be offensive to this.

honorable court and improper to be. spread upon the record thereof. I really. want to know what was in that letter. >> Well, one of the things was that the. lady would be required to type in the. nude. Yeah. This is the 1910s. No, that's what I'm saying. I wonder how it. would be judged by today's standard. Oh. Although, I mean by today's standard if. you sent a potential job candidate a. letter that said, "Going to require you. to be typing in the nude." Yeah. You you. would get in some trouble for that. Sure. I just don't know that you would.

say it was obscene, lewd, and. lascivious. >> No, I'm with you. They'd say that's. kinky. But I think the So okay, George. Kelly was a kinky traveling preacher who. had his wife in tow. And he was in. Villisca at the time of the murders. And. he left that next morning on a train. Right, but there was supposedly a. witness that said that he had a very. incriminating statement when he got off. of that train that very morning. Yeah, he apparently referenced the. murders, but he had left town before.

they found out about the murders. But then later on those people recanted. those statements, correct? >> Right. So when when Frank Jones, F.F. Jones had. a grand jury brought to hear evidence. against him, he was exonerated. Um same. thing. not with George Kelly actually. I should. say he was actually the only person to. ever go to trial for these murders. And. he was tried twice. The first time the. jury found 11 to 1 in his favor. The.

second jury acquitted him entirely. Um. the evidence against him was just too. flimsy and it probably wasn't him. Yeah, I mean the the the idea was they were. like he was at that church service, he's. a pervert. He saw these kids in the. service. Mhm. He went back and. peeked into their house and camped out. in their barn. Right. And the evidence. there was there were some hay bales in. the barn that had depressions as if. someone had been laying on them. And if.

you'd laid down in one of them, there. was a peephole right there in the barn. where you could see the house. This is all pretty flimsy. There was. also though I think one of the reasons. why the case was brought against him. He. was specifically tried for the murder of. Lena Stillinger. And that's um, that's noteworthy because, although they. don't say in the official court record. directly, Yeah. that she may have been. sexually assaulted or that some sort of. sex crime had been committed against. her.

Um, supposedly, she had been found with. her nightclothes hiked up over her. waist, like above her waist. Yeah. Her. undergarments had been taken off and. stuffed under the bed. Yeah. And then. her her legs had been arranged so that. her genitalia was prominent, right? Um, that was done after she had been. murdered, and I think that's one of the. reasons why they suspected George Kelly, um, because it to add a sexual dimension. to this brutal murder, they said, "Well,

this guy's just just enough of a sex. maniac for that to be a possible." Yeah, oh, I forgot about this fact though. He. actually returned a week later. and posed as a Scotland Yard detective. so he could get a tour of the house. That is so George Kelly. Well, it's. definitely one of those things that. makes you go, "Wait a minute. Uh, return to the scene of the crime, you. lied to get in there and look at the. house." Right. But, apparently everyone. wanted to go look at the house. Yeah. So, it's And plus, what's posing? You. know, we've seen so many like cartoony.

movies that like somebody gets like the. the deerstalker hat and a pipe and says. they're from Scotland Yard. Posing could. be like somebody saying like, "Oh, you. must be from Scotland Yard." And he's. like, "Right." And like grunting in the. affirmative. Yeah, that's true. I guess. that technically constitutes posing in. the real world. Uh, apparently signed a. confession. Um, Oh, yeah, that was a big. one, too. Yeah, but I mean, the. confession literally said, "I killed the. children upstairs first and the children. downstairs last. I knew God wanted me to. do it this way. Slay utterly came to.

mind.". And I picked up the axe, went into the. house, and killed them. Um, but, you know, he took it back later. He. was like, "Yeah, all that very specific. stuff I said about killing this family, I didn't really do it." So, he was. exonerated. Um, so so far, the little. town of Villisca has looked around and. said, "We couldn't find any tramps, so. who's the person that hated Joe Moore. the most? FF Jones." Well, it wasn't. him. "Who's the weirdest pervert we can. find who was in town at the time?" Yeah,

that Englishman. George Kelly. It wasn't. him. So, they didn't know. A lot of. people went to their graves dying not. knowing what happened, and we still. don't know what happened. But, with the. hindsight of, um, I guess modern. forensic techniques, modern profiling, and the work of dedicated historians. like Ed Epperly, we have something of a. clearer picture emerging, and that. picture seems to be centering on a. serial killer. We'll talk about that theory more right.

after this. [Music]. All right, so we've ruled out these. local.

yokels. Local-ish, I guess, in Kelly's case. Um, and now the the modern take on this. is that this was a serial killer. because, uh, in 1911 and 1912, there were a lot. of axe murders, uh, in the Midwest, at least 10. Um, everywhere from Colorado Springs to. Ellsworth, uh, Kansas. Mhm. Um, and. many of them.

had, uh, similar traits. Yeah, like some very. startlingly similar traits, right? But, not all of them. And some of them were. like, and we'll go through these, but. some were like, "Well, in five of them, these same things happened. In two of. them, these same things happened." So, it makes me wonder if it wasn't if. they're kind of grouping too many of. these together. This does. Ed Epperly actually whittles. it down to five, including Villisca. Oh, I thought it was three. Was it five?

Five. So, there's three that happened in. 1911. There was one that happened in. Colorado Springs, Colorado, that. supposedly kicked the whole thing off. Yeah. Followed by Monmouth in Illinois. I forgot the S is silent. You all right? Yeah. And then, uh, Ellsworth, Kansas. Then there was one in, uh, Paola, Kansas. And then the last one in Villisca. And. those five crimes have some similarities. that make them really, really.

suspicious. Yeah. That the idea of just, uh, like five different people or even a. couple of different people, um, separately committing these crimes. And. as Ed Epperly, uh, puts it kind of. dismissively, the idea that these were. local vendettas or, Yeah. you know, um, that that people were Like an argument. over farming or something. Right. Yeah. That's not what these these crimes. reflect at all. They reflect the work of. a like just a straight-up nutjob.

psychopath Yeah. who, um, are are few. and far between. So, the the fact that. these things occurred between October of. 1911 and June of 1912, um, suggests. strongly that that there was one person. doing them. Yeah, well, there was that. final one in Columbia, Missouri, in. December 1912. Um, and one of the theories is that a. man named Henry Lee Moore, uh, killed. uh, Georgia Moore in Columbia, Missouri, who was his mother, and Mary Wilson.

Um, so, is that the guy? No. It would be weird. to commit a series of murders and then. finish up with your own family. Right. Usually it's the other way around. Yeah, right. So, like if you're going to go. off on a killing spree, you usually. start you practice on your family first. Yeah, like a rehearsal. a feel for it, right? Um, he this guy, Henry Lee Moore, aside from. having three names, is not a good.

suspect for the serial killer, right? Um, he apparently wanted the deeds to. his family house. And, um, like you said, that it's very. rare for a serial killer to go back. You. know the deal with the three names? They don't all have three names. No, I. know, but so many of them do. It's Well, no, the news reports it that way to. distinguish them. Oh. from every other Henry Moore in the. world. Got you. So, like everyone's. always like, "Serial killers have three. names." No, they're just reported that. way. That's awesome. Yeah. I love it. when things are just explained, yeah.

All wrapped up in a nice little bow. Thanks for that. Like Lee Harvey Oswald, he I think went. by Lee Oswald. I think you're right. Yeah. Yeah. So, if anyone ever writes the story. about Charles Wayne Bryant, we're in trouble. Right. Um, oh, yeah. I'm in trouble. No. I. wouldn't kill you. Uh, thanks, man. I. wouldn't kill you, either. Hey, you want. to shake on it? Yeah, Jerry witnessed.

Um, so, the the Henry Lee Moore thing, he's almost like a red herring. Like a. lot of people say, "Well, he was the. one. He was the serial killer behind. it." Cuz the serial the serial murders. started, um, right after he got out of. prison in Kansas. Yes. And then they. ended right after he got caught in. Columbia, Missouri, with his family. Yeah, I mean, kind of makes sense. It. does, but that's where the whole thing. really begins and ends. So, a lot of. people say, "Well, it wasn't Henry Lee. Moore, so it wasn't a serial killing.". Well, plus, uh, sorry, but his his.

killing his own family was about, uh, obtaining the deeds to his family house. Yeah, that's what I was saying. Oh, so. that was greed-motivated. Right. Okay, sorry then. Not not a serial. psychopathic sex-based serial killer. spree, right? This guy was just a jerk. Um, so, since Henry Lee Moore is. associated with the serial murder. theory, once somebody then finds out. that it wasn't Henry Lee Moore, they. stop thinking it was a serial murder. Ed. Epperly says, "Not so fast. Wait, wait, wait. You just because Henry Lee Moore's.

out of the equation, doesn't mean. there's not a serial killer involved.". Yeah. He's like, "Consider the the. similarities between these five cases.". And they're they're they're pretty. thick, right? In a couple of the cases, um, there were. oil lamps found where chimney the. chimneys were removed and set aside, and. the wicks were bent in half to keep the. light low. Yeah. That's a big one. Uh, axes were used in four of the five, but. he says that's just probably a matter of.

convenience. A pipe, I think, was used. in the Monmouth, Illinois, case, which. is, again, an implement of convenience, too, right? Don't have an axe handy? Go. for a lead pipe, right? Yeah, he. probably didn't bring that with you. Right. Um, there were. Tell them about the Tell them about the. mirrors, Chuck. Well, I mean, at several of these. places, the mirrors were covered up. I. mean, that's a big one. Yeah. Uh, mirrors and windows. And in one of the. places, the telephone. was covered, and. the thought there is is that, uh, like.

you said earlier, like they don't want. the victims to be watching them even. after death or to be seen in the mirrors. and windows being covered. But, uh, the. phone apparently it was one of those old. a box phones on the wall that you that. you crank, and it has. the two it sort of looks like a face. right when you look at it. It has like. looks like two eyes and a nose. And so, the thought was that that even looks. like a face to the deranged serial. killer, so they'll cover that up as. well. Right. Because.

nothing else makes much sense, you know, you're not going to in 1912, you're not. getting phone calls after midnight. You probably. probably don't get more than a couple of. phone calls a week in 1912. Right. Most. people don't have phones. Yeah, and. throwing a sheet over it wouldn't like. disable it anyway. No. Um there was a. another female victim, a young female. victim in Monmouth, who was found. basically the same way that um Lena. Stillinger was found. >> Yeah. Um with her her.

nightgown thrown up over waist and her. um undergarments removed. Um and. apparently there was a similarity in I. believe Monmouth and Villisca where and. I one other town, too, where the killer. was went on to try to kill again. >> Yeah, this was the most interesting to. me. Either successfully did kill again. There was one where he went to an. adjacent house whose backyard connected. the the first murder house and then went. in and killed the another family right.

afterward. >> was Colorado Springs. And then in. Villisca, there the telephone operator. who was like sleeping in the telephone. switchboard headquarters there was no. calls were coming through. She reported. the um. the doorknob being tried about 2 hours. after the Moore house. um members were murdered. >> Yeah, like heard footsteps come up to. the door, try to open it, and then heard. the footsteps leave. >> Yep. That's a little shaky. But this the last one was the one that. kind of sent the chill up my spine. It.

was the one in Kansas, specifically you. said Paola. I bet you there are people there. laughing cuz it's probably pronounced. Palwa or something. Probably. Uh but who knows? P A O L A Kansas, there was a second family um Mrs. uh. Longmire, the Longmire family. >> Mhm. Um they were awakened, she and her. daughter at about midnight uh to the. sound of broken glass, uh went. downstairs and saw a dude in their. dining room who had just broken a oil.

lamp chimney. Yeah. And then got the. heck out of there through a window. Yeah. So they actually saw a guy. So. think about that, Chuck. Think about. that. They saw They woke up and saw the. man who was about to probably bludgeon. them all to death with an axe. Um And this probably the guy. >> Yeah. And these were all train towns. Yeah. So they were all linked by train. depots, so. by all accounts there was a train-going. serial killer.

uh for a couple of years Yeah. >> Midwest. >> Yeah. Killing people, hopping trains, Yeah. never ever caught. Isn't that. nuts? It is nuts. And that the Villisca. axe murders were probably one of his. crazy. But we'll never know. No. You know, when you say stuff like. that or when you see stuff like that in. print, too, like we'll never know who it. was. It makes you wonder like what kind. of technology are we going to have in. the future? Like uh will we never know or are we. going to come up with something one day.

where we're like, "Oh, it was this guy.". Yeah, like now we know. You know? Um who. who knows? The future knows. That's who knows. We. should do one on Ed Gein. Okay. That's. like kind of one of the big [ __ ] ones we. haven't covered. >> Okay. I got a couple more, too. Oh, yeah? I. don't want to I don't want to even tease. them yet. Okay. Okay? True crime. Maybe we'll do one in. uh like this October. Okay. We used to. do multiple kind of creepy episodes.

I think we did last time, too. Last. October, yeah. >> All right. Well, look forward to another. uh. ghoulish. serial killer type thing. Okay. Yeah, we did Hinterkaifeck, I think, Oh, was that last October? >> yeah. Okay. Uh if you want to know more about the. Villisca axe murders, well, again, strongly recommend you go look up Ed. Epperly. You can read the Smithsonian. article um The Axe Murderer Who Got. Away, which is great. Uh and there were. plenty of other articles that we relied. on that we loved. Thank you for those.

Um. in the meantime, you can also hang out. with us on howstuffworks.com and our. famous search bar. And since I said. search bar, got to get it in there. It's. time for listener mail. Hey guys, love the show, and now I have. even more reason to promote your podcast. to everyone I know. I work in a small. family business with my cousin, and this. previous January. started experiencing severe. gastrointestinal issues. >> Oh, I love this email. Yeah, remember. this one? Uh it was like from yesterday. Yeah.

I won't go into detail uh but for months. afterward he saw specialist after. specialist hoping to find out the root, tested for Crohn's, ulcers, IBS, everything under the sun. None of which. had a positive result or diagnosis. Couldn't focus on anything, no energy, took a ton of time away from work. He. felt totally lost and even sought the. help of a psychologist because of his. diminished work ethic, deteriorating. quality of life. You see where this is. going, people? Like listeners might know. And he was. southern.

One day last month uh. he was southern, actually. He came in. after a doctor's appointment and said he. developed an iron deficient anemia to. add to his list of issues. At first it. sounded disconnected until and I kid you. This is in all caps. I kid you not, Josh. and Chuck, I was listening to your. hookworm episode that day. Man. When he got to the part about the uh. aggressive iron deficient anemia, I lost. my mind. I looked up hookworm infection. symptoms, immediately brought it to my.

cousin, and he had every last symptom. His doctor prescribed a medication, and. he is currently being dewormed. Oh, man. From the first day he started his. treatment, he had a noticeable increase. in both mood and energy. I don't know. how these symptoms could have slipped by. a half dozen GPs and specialists, but I. truly can't thank you both enough for. your podcast and its wide range of. topics. That is James in St. Pete, Florida. >> That is so awesome, man. >> Dude had hookworm. >> Can you believe it? >> Man. Man. Thank you, James, and.

good luck to you, cousin. >> Way to go for being so smart to connect. the dots, too. I think your cousin owes. you a. pizza or a beer or whatever you like. >> Maybe both. Yeah. Yeah. Uh trip to Chuck-E-Cheese drunk. Uh if you want to get in touch with us. to tell us an amazing story like James. did, you can tweet to us. I'm at Josh. and Chuck and syskpodcast. Chuck's at Charles W. Chuck Bryant and. Stuff You Should Know on Facebook. And. you can send us all an email, including. Jerry, at.

stuffpodcast@howstuffworks.com. And as always, join us at our home on. the web, stuffyoushouldknow.com. [Music]. For more on this and thousands of other. topics, visit howstuffworks.com. [Music].