SYSK’s Fall True Crime Playlist: The Tylenol Murders, Part I | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW

[Music]. Now up is one of my favorite of our true. crime episodes on the poisoning deaths. of at least seven people in the Chicago. area back in 1982. What makes this case so unsettling is. that there doesn't seem to be any. connection whatsoever between the. victims and the killer. The murderer. just seems to have been a mad poisoner. Like most good true crime mysteries, this one is also unsolved. Enjoy. [Music].

Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a. production of iHeartRadio's How Stuff. Works. Hey and welcome to the podcast. I'm. Josh, there's Chuck, there's Josh. Not me twice. >> Guest producer Josh is back in the. house. Yeah, and there's little Chuck in your. pocket. Remember little Elvis? I was just about. to say that. You got that right, tiny E. Oh man, what a great sketch. >> was. That was Nicolas Cage, wasn't it?

Yeah, man. Did you ever see Mandy? Yes, it was terrible. I don't care what. anybody else says. It was terrible. Terrible movie. Yeah, Noel and I talked. about it on Movie Crush. He's seen it. like four times. Thinks it's the best thing ever. Come. on, Noel. >> was like, people either love it or hate. it. And I was like, actually I was kind. of in the middle. Were you really? Yeah, I mean I told him young Chuck, like. 22-year-old college Chuck, would have. probably liked it a lot more. >> Yeah. But today Chuck was kind of like, uh I get it. Like Sure. Sure. Parts of.

it were fine. Sure. To me. spending an hour. doing character development. >> Uh-huh. but not successfully making you care. about the characters Yeah, good point. >> just really irked me. Wow, you had. structural issues. >> Yeah. That was really the big thing. I also. thought Linus Roache was very, very odd. for casting, but Who's that? Which one. was he? The main bad guy, the cult. leader. >> Oh, that was weird. Very weird. I don't. even know him, but I just. >> Law & Order. Uh And like some other.

stuff. You You got to get into Law &. Order, Chuck. See how much you're. missing out on? That's becoming a bit. So, did we start recording yet? I think so. Oh, I already welcomed everybody to the. podcast. >> That's right. Um so, Chuck, we are This. is some true crime stuff we're getting. into here. >> That's right. But we I feel like we need. to set the the tone, right? Because this. isn't This didn't happen just yesterday. This happened way back in 1982 in. Chicago, Illinois. >> Mhm. And I remember this. Man, I.

remember. >> like six at the time. >> It was one of my favorite years. Because of this? No. No. No. The opposite of that, right? Mainly cuz of movies. What was so great. about 1982? Look it up, man. Well, I was. kind of hoping you had. >> E.T., Blade Runner. Oh, really? >> Yeah. Okay, yeah, that was. >> the best movies. Do you know I didn't. see Blade Runner until I was. 40? That's not true. Yes, it is. >> Oh, really? Yes. The original? The. original Blade Runner. Huh. Did you like. it? It was good. I like the second one,

too. You're like, but they spent way too. much time on character development. Um yeah, and I just did a little poking. around about 1982, and it was um. it was a good year for an 11-year-old, but it was an uneasy time in America. Why? Uh well, for a bunch of awful. things happened that year. Uh and I. don't know if it was any more or less. than other years, but uh. Air Florida 90 crashed in the into the. uh Potomac River. Remember that? No. In. Washington, D.C., the plane crashed in.

the river. >> Didn't it hit a bridge? Maybe, but uh. there was there was like a daring icy. river rescue. >> Oh, really? Yeah. 78 people died, though. That same day a metro train in. D.C. derailed, killed three people. Jeez. Uh February was when Wayne. Williams was convicted. Got you. And. that was just the end of a lot of. unease, you know, for years. Yeah. Uh. Claus von Bülow was found guilty. uh of attempted murder of his wife in.

March. I didn't make it to the end of. Reversal of Fortune, so I honestly. didn't know what happened to Claus. Guilty. Okay. Uh in June uh was the. murder of Vincent Chin, who was a. Chinese American who was. beaten to death uh by two. men in Michigan thinking he was a. Japanese and they were like stealing his. their auto work. >> Oh my god. >> right? Uh and then July 9th, Pan Am Flight 759. goes down in Louisiana uh Louisiana,

kills all 146 people on board plus eight. more on the ground. And then in September, early September. >> Please stop this. >> was when I know, man, remember planes. used to just crash a lot. >> Yeah, that never happens now. Uh not as. much, but yeah, weird that we're. recording this in the midst of more. plane crashes. And then early September was when that. uh paperboy in Iowa Iowa was kidnapped. and never seen again, that Johnny Gosch. Mhm, I don't know that one. >> That was a big deal, too, cuz it was,

you know, the paperboy and there was this false. story about a a pedophile ring Mhm. from. politicians and that turned out to not. to be true, but he was never found. again. So, basically everything that's. going on today is just a rehash of 1982, it sounds like. I just remember being. about that age and they're just the. nightly news sort of just being a horror. show Yeah. and not politically speaking. I You know, I. >> bad incidences occurring. >> Well, yeah, plane crash like just about. at any age like that'll that'll bring.

you down Mhm. if you see that on the. news, for sure. Yeah. Um because, you. know, when you get on a plane, you. think, huh, maybe this plane will go down while I'm. on it and that would be terrible. Although I wasn't flying at 11. So, all. of those things you just mentioned Mhm. sweep them totally off the table. >> Okay. because come the end of September. of that year nothing else mattered but. what we're about to talk about now. That's right. Nothing. Nothing came.

close to taking the over the national. psyche. like the deaths of. seven people. >> Mhm. uh beginning on September 29th, 1982 in. Chicago, Illinois. Yeah, and one of the. articles I read about this, I mean, are. we trying to keep it a secret? It's a show title, right? Uh yeah, yeah, yeah, I think they're going to have to. figure it out. So, yeah, go ahead. The. Tylenol murders? >> Yeah. Okay. You're like, oh, no, no. But that's that comes up in part two. Uh. oh, yeah, this is a two-parter. Yeah. as.

well. >> So, buckle in, everybody. Uh so, I was. doing some research, though, and I saw. one article that said something about, you know, the first domestic terror incident. United States that nobody's ever heard. of. I was like, what? Who hasn't heard. of this? A millennial wrote that. headline. Well, I have to say, Josh, on. the way in here, I told him Tylenol. murders and he went, huh? He goes, what's Tylenol? You old codger. We should probably say what Tylenol is, huh? Oh, okay. Yeah, I guess just in.

case you are a millennial and you've. never heard of Tylenol, but Tylenol. was and still is an over-the-counter. pain reliever. Yeah. >> you have aches and pains, and apparently. what's crazy. people would take Tylenol whatever was. wrong with them. Right. Because now you. can go get like, you know, uh aspirin. and and um You can get aspirin and. Advil. >> Advil and and Aleve. There was no Aleve. back then. That was a '90s drug. There's. way more over-the-counter pain relievers. now than there were back then. Back.

then, Tylenol was basically. it. Yeah. It's acetaminophen, which is. different than aspirin, and I think a. lot of people just think those are. interchangeable. Right. The reason I. believe Tylenol became so big is because. aspirin upsets a lot of people's. stomachs. Right. >> Tylenol does not, or it's not supposed. to, and that's why it came out of. nowhere and just took over the aspirin. market. I think by 1982, Tylenol had 37%. of the market. That's pretty good.

>> Cornered. Yeah. Yeah. Almost half. Especially since like some of the the. other like aspirins have been around. since, you know, 19th century. Right. So, it makes sense then. that when a little girl named Mary Ann. Kellerman. uh complained that she had a sore throat. and wasn't feeling too good at like 7:00. a.m. on uh Wednesday, September 29th, 1982, her parents said, "Just take an. extra strength Tylenol and go back to. bed." Man. For a sore throat. Can you.

imagine the guilt Oh, no. >> these parents feel? Well, don't blow it. We haven't said what happens to Mary Ann. Kellerman yet. I think everybody knows. Uh yeah, she got up, said, "I'm sick.". Mhm. They said, "Take this." Uh the. father said he heard her going to the. bathroom and closed the door uh then. heard something drop and went to the. door. saying, "Are you okay? You're okay?" Uh. no answer. Opened the door and there she is on the. floor. Um. Taken to the hospital, but died very. quickly. Yeah, probably was dead when.

she went to the hospital, but was. pronounced there. Um and she they. suspected This is just a little. 12-year-old girl of middle school girl, went to Jane Addams Middle School. Um. She they think she died of a stroke. That's what they thought happened to. her. They were just so baffled that. they're like, it had to have been a. stroke, that's the only thing that can. come on like this. Yeah, so that's 7:00. a.m. Just the day is just beginning and one. atrocity has already happened. Yeah, this is a This is a very bad day in the.

history of Chicago, September 29th, 1982. Yeah, absolutely. >> started early. Uh Adam Janus, who uh. will detail his story, but put a pin in. this one, too, because he figures in. even more prominently in a minute. But. uh a little bit later that same morning, uh this gentleman, Adam Janus, he's 27. years old and lived in Arlington. Heights, another Chicago suburb and he. died. uh and they think that this is a heart. attack. He complained of chest pains.

after he had driven his daughter's. neighbor home from school. Said I'm going to take the day off. Comes home, eats a little lunch, takes. two extra strength Tylenol that he. bought from a local drug store, collapses in front of his wife, and by, you know, a few minutes later when the. paramedics arrive, he was dead. Right. And again, like you said, they said. heart attack because he'd been. complaining of chest pains, which had. nothing to do with it. But just like. Maryann Kellerman took an extra strength. Tylenol for a sore throat, he took some.

extra strength Tylenol for some chest. pains. This is just what people did back. then. >> Yeah, and that's what complicated it a. little bit at first um. was that you know, if you take the. Tylenol, it means you felt bad already. So obviously, you know, they're going to. be saying like, wait a minute, chest. pains or sore throat, like how does that. figure in? And it didn't. Plus also, what made this even more baffling is. that Maryann Kellerman was 12 and. healthy. Adam Janus was 27 and healthy. >> Yeah. And all of a sudden they just. dropped dead. People don't just drop. dead. No matter what you see on TV or in.

the movies or whatever, dropping dead. inexplicably is a really bizarre thing. when you're a healthy person. It just. doesn't happen. Next, we have Mary. Reiner. Same day. Same day. This is. still all on the same day. She's 27 years old. She's feeling a. little dizzy. She had just come home. from the hospital. after having given birth to her fourth. kid a couple of days before. Yeah. Super super sad. All of these are. obviously, but being a just a brand new.

mom for the fourth time is just so. tragic. And then by 3:45, she was so ill, she was rushed back to. the hospital and again died very very. quickly. Yeah, and like Adam Janus. collapsed in front of his wife, she. collapsed in front of her young. 8-year-old daughter. One of her children. saw her. And yeah, when she was taken to the. hospital, they pronounced her dead as. well. This is mid-afternoon. Mary McFarland was up next. She was over.

in. the the suburb of Lombard, and she. worked at a Illinois Bell phone center. Where do you remember like you go get. your phone like the rotary phone? The you know, you would actually lease. your phone. I I I wasn't involved in. that process, but we had them in our. home. >> Okay. Well, your parents went to the. place. >> they just bought that stuff. >> No, there was like a store where you. would go. It's like the the phone. company's retail store, and you would go. and be like, that pink one.

>> It's like smartphones today. Kind of. >> Same model. Kind of. Yeah, I guess so. But this is with a big. clunky rotary phone. And you had to pay. extra for the extra long cord. Well, Mary McFarland worked in one of these. stores, and at about 4:00. at the Illinois Bell phone center, she. was she had a massive headache that just. came on out of nowhere. And she went in. back and got some extra strength Tylenol. out of her purse. Took a couple of them, and within minutes collapsed in the. store. Yeah, she was young as well. She.

was 31 years old. Mother of two. And then, remember I was talking about. Adam Janus a few minutes ago. His family goes to the hospital. Obviously, everyone converges there. He. passes away, and so the family makes. their way home to begin mourning and. just sort of trying to reconcile what. had just happened. His brother Stanley, who was only 25, and then his wife Teresa, who was only. 19, are both just overcome and worn out and.

have headaches. So they're at Adam's. house. They go to his medicine cabinet, get out the Tylenol that he took, completely unknowingly obviously. And. uh. Stanley hits the ground, foam comes from. his mouth, his eyes roll back in his. head, everyone's freaking out, and a few. minutes later, his wife collapses. And they call the. ambulance. By the time of the ambulances. get there, I think Stanley died that day, and. Teresa somehow managed to live a couple.

of days. >> Yeah, she hung on, and I I don't know if. like her dose is lesser or what, but but. she she survived for a couple of days. after that. Yeah, I mean, my guess is. that. uh. there just wasn't as much cyanide in the. capsule she took. Did I just give something else away? Yeah, you did. But the So Stanley took his Tylenol. first, and then Teresa took hers. And. one of the paramedics noted like Teresa. was the one that called the the. ambulance out to come out for Stanley. When they get there, they're they're.

both like on the ground, and they're. like, what's going on? And one of the. paramedics said everything that was. happening to the guy happened to the. woman like a couple minutes later. Like. she was just following him through this. process of like basically systemic organ. failure. And this is the same day that. the his brother had passed away. >> Yep, this is about 5 6 hours 6 hours. after. Adam Janus had died. Then finally, I know this is all tough. to go through everyone. And we almost selected this as our next.

live show. >> I'm really glad we didn't. >> Probably a good idea. Cuz I mean, can. you imagine trying to liven this up with. some jokes? I I thought at the time I. was like, no, we can do that. But yeah, the more I got into it, I was like, yeah, this is probably not good live. material. Right. We should have a rule. of thumb that any story that begins with. the death of a 12-year-old girl is not. live show material. >> you're right. So finally, we have Paula. Prince, Paula Jean Prince. This is a. couple of days later. This is not the. same day. This is on Friday evening. She was a. 35-year-old flight attendant. And she.

was found dead in her apartment after. police responded for a welfare check. that her sister called in saying, hey, you know, I know she's a flight. attendant and all, but no one knows. where she is. Can you go check on her? A. welfare checkup. And they finally found. her, and she was gone. Yes. >> Very very sad. >> She was found in her bathroom with a. bottle of extra strength Tylenol still. open on the counter. And she they looked into um.

her receipts and found that she had. purchased it on Wednesday, September. 29th. That's right. So at the end of. this very short span of time in the. Chicago area, we have seven people. dead. And I feel like. that's a good time to take a message. break. Yeah? Yeah. [Music].

Okay, Chuck. So you said cyanide. How did you know. that? Cuz I was 11 years old, and I. watched the nightly news like all. 11-year-olds did. >> You just called it, right? >> Just me and Brokaw, Dan Rather. Yeah. >> Couple. Yep. Who else? That was it. Peter Jennings. He came a little later, but sure.

>> Was he? Yeah. Yeah, he came after somebody. Well, I mean, Cronkite wasn't still. around, was he? Or was he? I don't know. I don't think so. I was I was kind of. into the news as a kid a little bit. >> Well, yeah, I mean, that was that was. where you got your news back then. >> Yeah, you would watch the evening news. It's very strange to think about now. Right. With the with the. up-to-the-minute news cycle. So oh yeah, I know. How much more innocent things. were back then. So remove yourself from the benefit of. hindsight or the benefit of Dan Rather's.

insight. And put yourself in the shoes of the the. people in Chicago, right? Yeah. >> These are five These are seven different. deaths. I think from five different. townships in the greater Chicago area, including Chicago. Paula Prince, the. last person to die, lived in Chicago. These people aren't talking. These. people have no idea what's going on. It's just that there were five seven. separate baffling deaths. You keep.

saying five. You want two few fewer. people to be dead. >> Yeah, I do. That's good. My wishes. aren't working though. Um. It just so happens that the ambulance. paramedics that showed up to attend to. Mary Maryann Kellerman, the first girl. to die, um they were just. logging everything cuz it was such a. baffling thing, and they logged her. Tylenol. >> Yeah, logged it and collected. >> Right. >> Yeah. Took it as evidence to maybe look. into who knows, but they took the extra.

strength Tylenol that she had taken, not. thinking anything of it, but just. basically throwing anything at the wall. to see what stuck. >> Yeah, I'm sure the dad was like, you. know, she went in and took some Tylenol. and dropped dead. So it probably made. sense even though it's just Tylenol to. say like, well, hey, let's at least take. this in. >> Yes. And that Tylenol that right. >> Because that bottle of Tylenol made its. way into the hands of a medical examiner. whose name was. >> Michael Shafer. >> And Michael Shafer tested the Tylenol.

and was rather surprised to find that. some of the capsules had not Tylenol in. it, but 65 mg of potassium cyanide. Yeah. And it takes about 50 mg to kill a. healthy adult. Yeah, I mean, some of. them. I don't think they were all exactly the. same, but some of them. had been completely emptied of any. acetaminophen and completely filled with. cyanide. With cyanide, right? >> Yeah, I mean, it was it was someone. intent on for sure killing people. Yes.

Cuz cyanide is no joke. No. It's a it's. a really really small molecule, and it normally attaches to metals. outside of the body, which is why you. have. minerals, I guess, which is why you have. potassium cyanide. >> Right. When it goes into the body, when. you ingest it, however you ingest it, whether it's from a Tylenol capsule or. breathing cyanide gas like they used to. use to execute people with. Yeah, like. they stopped using it for executions. because it was such a brutal death.

>> Yeah, it's a very cruel painful way to. die. In the body it detaches from its mineral. or metal and it attaches to a protein in. the body called. cytochrome c oxidase. Which doesn't sound like it'd be a big. problem but it turns out that that's. about the worst protein that cyanide. could attach itself to because we really. need cytochrome c oxidase to breathe. Yeah. Basically it I mean this sounds like. such a cruel thing because.

it's just rapid cell death. Mhm. And. it's not like your throat closes up and. you can't breathe like you're inhaling. oxygen and you you are technically. taking breaths. >> Mhm. But the oxygen is not getting in. the cells. No, it's not because that c. that cytochrome c oxidase is. what helps transport the oxygen and get. and allows the oxygen to be used for. energy. >> Yeah. So if the potassium is clinging to. it the oxygen can't. It just stays in.

the bloodstream and it doesn't get used. by the cells. And since your central. nervous system is the most oxygen hungry. system in your entire body. >> Does a lot of work. >> It starts to shut down first and when. your brain and your spinal cord start. shutting down all sorts of things. happen. Your lungs start shutting down. Your heart God bless it keeps beating. for minutes after the rest of your body. shut down. >> So you're not technically dead. They're. not sure exactly how long the pain and.

and excruciation of dying from cyanide. lasts but they think you're probably. conscious and aware and freaked out for. about a minute at least and your heart. may continue beating for three or four. minutes after that. So it's not a. pleasant death at all. No, I mean you're. you're gasping for air. You're breathing. in air nothing's happening. >> Mhm. Like I said um. Stanley Janus he was foaming at the. mouth and his eyes rolled back in his. head in front of his family. It's just. like it's awful like writhing on the. floor. Mhm. Uh.

gasping for air you're breathing but. it's not doing anything. It's just I. can't imagine anything more horrifying. >> Right because your central nervous. system is kind of falling out of its out. of control or rhythm convulsions are. usually a a hallmark of cyanide. poisoning. And then you turn bright red. at the end of it. >> Yeah, a cherry a cherry red they said. because when your body has gotten rid of. oxygen to your cells and the oxygen. becomes depleted um your your skin kind. of turns like a rusty brownish red. But.

because it can't unload that oxygen when. you're dead it stays a bright red and. your skin turns bright red and then the. other real telltale sign is. your breath will smell a bit like. almonds. Yeah, I mean not a bit. I mean. these bottles supposedly were really. pungent with bitter almond and. unless you know what that means. then. you're probably not. clued in, you know? Like I wouldn't I. wouldn't have known. Sure. If I opened a. bottle of Tylenol and it smelled like. bitter almond I'd probably be like huh.

Right. >> It's it's a nice smell actually. Yeah, I. like this Tylenol. Mhm. >> Yeah. I guess they have a new almond. flavor. Awful. So Michael Shaffer that. medical examiner has just realized that. this this little girl has been poisoned. but he he knows nothing about these. other deaths. >> Yeah. There's nothing like that. It's not entirely clear. how everything became connected or who. connected it. But what I find just. particularly astonishing is that within.

just a few hours by that evening by the. evening of September 29th people were. saying. there's something up with the Tylenol in. these mysterious deaths that have been. going on all around Chicago. Yeah, not I. mean we'll get into the the dragnet they. cast but. within a few days they had. kind of solved everything but who did it. and how it may have happened. Who done. it? Who done it? Right. Um so yeah very quickly they figured out. the Tylenol and there are a couple of. different stories.

um on like you said on who who was the. first person to point this out. Um one. story is that a reporter for the City. News Bureau in Chicago was. doing the reporter thing and then doing. some deep diving and investigating Mhm. and called up a deputy coroner and said. hey I think this is what's happening. They told the police. Uh another story. is that two people who didn't know each. other kind of came together. independently to um let people know. One. was a fire captain name. Philip Cappitelli. I knew it. I knew you.

were going to do that. There was like a 90% chance. You know. why? Cuz we got a lot of support from. people that wrote in saying I'm Italian. and I love it. Keep doing it. >> Right. And only one guy who hated it. But ironically it was fire captain. Philip Cappitelli who written in and. said no. >> So he uh. here here was his deal. His. his mother-in-law was friends. with Mary Kellerman the victim's mother. Yeah, the first the little girl. >> And she said hey would you mind looking.

into this cuz I'm friends with this. little girl's mom. And it's weird that. she dropped dead at 12. >> he's a fire captain and they're all. connected to you know the police and to. the Sure. medical community. Everybody. knows you want something done ask a fire. captain. >> I would. Sure. Um Cuz they'll bust into. the room with an axe. Get everybody's. attention. Um. So he's he's investigating and then. there's this there's a nurse named Helen. Jensen. And she I don't do you know why she was.

so into this case? Was she just a. do-gooder? No no no she was the. public health nurse for Cook County I. believe. >> Okay so she had an official designation. to investigate. >> but unfortunately no one would listen to. her because this is 1982 and she was a. nurse. Right. Even though she was like a. public health director she was still a. nurse and people wouldn't listen to her. and she recalled in an oral history I. read about this that she was stomping. her feet out of frustration saying like.

there's something wrong with the. Tylenol. Like the the Tylenol is behind. all this and people wouldn't listen to. her. So supposedly she and Philip. Cappitelli got together and. joined forces. >> Right. and I guess were able to convince. everybody that no there's something. wrong with the with the Tylenol. And by. this time people started talking. >> Sure. And you know the idea that Michael. Shaffer had identified Tylenol. I don't. know if it was the same day or the day. after or something like that but all. this is within a span of 36.

48 hours tops. >> really fast. >> That all of this is going on that the. dots are being connected. Right. So uh. then what follows is um Cook County's. deputy chief medical examiner Dr. Edmund. Donahue. holds a presser. I either watched this one or one of the. other ones. Like I remember specifically. seeing this press conference on the. news. Probably saw Jane Byrne. That. would have been the the nationwide one I. guess. >> Yeah and I was like how would that have.

been nationwide and then I looked it up. WGN was a superstation starting in 1980. Oh you know it man. So everybody saw it. because WGN could broadcast nationwide. by 1982. I I watched Cubs games as a kid. just because it was on. Yep. That was it. Like that and Braves games. were all you could see. >> So Dr. Donahue. has a presser a local presser. Um. of course there is panic initially. Yeah, he scares the.

s out of everybody cuz he comes out of. nowhere and says stop taking the. Tylenol. Oh yeah. Sure. And so anyone I. mean imagine how many people in Chicago. had taken Tylenol within 2 hours of that. press conference. Right. And are. thinking like should I go to the. hospital? >> Right and as a matter of fact. the poison control lines for basically. in every city where somebody saw this. started to light up. >> Oh yeah. right after that and people. were like I just took Tylenol am I okay? Or gave my kid. Can you imagine?

>> And the the what came to be the pat. response was if you are still standing. and talking to us you're probably okay. Which is sort of a double-edged sword. >> Right. It's like don't worry you die. super fast. >> Right. Kind of. So just relax. >> So just hold the line for 5 minutes and. then I'm going to come back and check on. you and if you're still talking you're. fine. Oh man. Um all right so then the. Chicago mayor's office gets involved. like you said Mayor Jane Byrne. She gets. says you know print a bunch of flyers. print them in a bunch of languages.

Maybe on goldenrod and cornflower blue? Sure. Why not? >> Really catch people's attention. Uh that. she had police drive through um. with loudspeakers on their car literally. saying like don't take Tylenol. Reenacting that scene from the Blues. Brothers? Where they're driving See I was thinking. Slacker and that's funny. Two different. movies. But do you remember they're. driving through in the police car with. the loudspeaker. talking about their their show. Yeah. Same in Slacker. I don't remember. I. don't I guess I didn't make it to the.

end of Slacker either. It was in the. middle-ish. It was no Dazed and. Confused, huh? Uh just different movies. Okay. Um so. they're they're posting flyers. Cops are. driving around blaring it through. neighborhoods. Uh and then she has. uh a press conference. She has all. Tylenol removed from the Chicago area. She calls for it. Well sure she didn't. go around. with her. her basket. Right no but I'm not a 100%. clear if she was actually able to demand.

that the Tylenol be removed. I think she. was more warning. Yeah, I mean I doubt. if there was any law she could invoke. I. wonder though. Seems like you would want something like. that. >> I would imagine. That's you know we'll. talk about that later. Okay. So. the TV and the radio, you know, obviously everyone picks this up, not. just in Chicago or the United States. It. goes worldwide. >> Yeah. >> And so, you know, there's people in. Europe and Asia pulling Tylenol off the. shelves. >> Yeah. So, this is a big deal. And there was a.

lot of. attention lavished on this. There was a. poll that was taken the next month, in. October, that found that 90 per- This was in. cities all over the country. They found. that 90% of respondents were aware of. this Tylenol poisoning story. Yeah. Some. Some press agency, like a news clipping. service, said that it's the number of the number. of stories dedicated to it were second. only to the number of stories dedicated.

to the assassination of JFK. Wow. >> That's how big the story became. overnight. And again, one of the reasons. why is because everybody took Tylenol. for everything all the time. That's just. what you did. It was just something. everyone took. And that same product was. now killing people. So, the most chilling part of all this to. me, and this is all chilling, uh may be the copycat stuff. >> Mhm. Because almost immediately, um.

copycat incidences started popping up. all over the country. Um there were 270 reports of product. tampering in the month after. 36 were. {quote} hardcore true tamperings. And. that's what's most chilling to me is. like there were that many people, at least 36, let's go on the low end, 36. people across the country that wanted to. kill people Mhm. and just saw an idea. and were like, oh, that's what I'll do. now. I should have thought of that.

myself. >> I mean, that's scary, man. Yeah. What's. What's scary, but also infuriating, is. that they're such terrible self-starters. that they had to be a copycat murderer. in that. Right. You know what I'm. saying? Sure. >> Like it's bad enough that they're trying. to kill somebody, randomly kill somebody, anonymously kill. somebody. They didn't even think of it. themselves. I know. >> That is a pathetic murderer right there. >> pathetic. >> Put my foot down. Uh Excedrin extra. strength Excedrin capsules um were found.

poisoned. with mercuric chloride. Mhm. Uh and that. almost killed a man in Colorado. Uh his. name was William Sinkevich. And he got he had liver and kidney. failure, but he did survive. Uh. this one gets me. So, more than one person thought, oh, well, you know, people spray and like drop. things in their eyes and nose. I'll put. acid in there. So, tampered Sinex and. tampered Visine both turned up after. they had burned people with acid.

Chemical burn up your nose. Unbelievable. Yeah, that's a bad one. So, food was also on the list of things. being tampered with. Um orange juice, chocolate milk, uh very high-profile incident with Ball. Park hot dogs. Yeah. They pulled a. million pounds of wieners off the. shelves. And random through a metal. detector. Yeah, cuz this was a scare all. of you know, the old urban legend of. razor blades in Halloween candy. >> Mhm. I don't Did they actually find pins and. needles and things for sure?

>> Yes. Yes. Okay, cuz I thought that had. literally never happened. >> It hadn't. It was an urban legend that. became true. >> Okay. But nothing in in the wieners. No, some boys, I think in Detroit, claimed to have found razor blades in. their Ball Park wieners. And like you. said, a million pounds were recalled. And then the boys were like, we were. just kidding. Wow. Yeah. And Ball Ball Park We'll we'll. talk about how Ball Park was treated. after that, but they were put on. shoulders and carried around for how. great they handled everything.

Uh and you know, there were a lot of. hoaxes. There were a lot of um. uh tips called in about other tampering. Uh and it had a really like it if the. purpose of this was to induce panic and. fear and and terror, then it absolutely. worked. >> Absolutely. Should we take another break? I think. so, man. We're going to come back and. talk about the investigation. [Music].

Okay, Chuck. Um I I I also want to point. this out. Time magazine, you know how. I'm like super into uh like going back. and reading contemporary news articles. about an event? Yeah. This one, I mean, it's all over the place. But Time wrote.

about the copycat incidents back in. 1982. And they said that the copycats were. trying to {quote} emulate their demonic. hero, the still unknown poisoner. Their demonic hero. That's what the. journalists from Time decided to go. with. That's funny. I get I mean, that. seems like a very 2019 thing to write. That's what I'm saying. I feel like. we're reverting back to 1982 right now. Are we? I I guess so. After that intro.

of yours, I'm now convinced. >> All right. So, everybody's freaked out. There There. are whole towns that canceled Halloween. Mhm. Because remember, this happened. like a month before Halloween, and. everyone was very scared about candy. tampering cuz of the urban legend. >> Sure. And some places it turned out to. be true, a self-fulfilling prophecy. There were all these hoaxes. There were. all these actual true product tampering. copycats. People were freaked out. And. the cops needed to do something. And. initially, these seven different deaths.

in five different towns in the Chicago. area were being treated as five. different investigations. >> Yeah. Um that didn't last very long. Within 2 days, by Friday, by the time. Mayor Byrne uh holds her press. conference on WGN, um. so what came to be called the Tylenol. Task Force was formed. All five of those. investigations got folded into not just. local investigations, the FBI, the. Illinois State Police, um FDA, of.

course. >> Yeah, the FDA was involved. The And then. the whole thing was led by the Illinois. District Attorney's Office, who was the. nominal head of the investigation. Yeah, so they figured out pretty quickly that. um. you know, like I said earlier, they cast. their dragnet. They come up with about a. 50-mi radius. of where all this stuff was bought and. sold. And go investigate drugstore after. drugstore, and they did find more uh. more bad Tylenol that are still sitting.

on the shelves, uh thankfully. Yeah, yeah. I I don't I don't want to skim. past that. They found more Tylenol waiting to be. bought. That's right. Like just sitting. there like, hey, come buy me. Within 2. days of of these first deaths. >> That's right. >> These first murders. We keep calling. them deaths. These were murders. That's. right. Uh and they name their their. case. There's They're always code names. for all these cases. This one ranks pretty low, in my. opinion.

TYMURs. T Y M U R S. Short, obviously, for Tylenol murders. The At the very. least, the S should have been a Z. TYMURs. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Just give it a little. flavor. Agreed. Uh so, the cops are. um. there there was some confusion about how. this went down cuz they're trying to. figure out, you know, did it happen at. the factory? Did it happen after the. factory? Right. What's the supply chain. like? >> Well, that's That's huge. That's like. the crux of the investigation.

>> Where did the tainting occur? Yeah, so. they found out that all of the. containers. were from lot number MC2880. Mhm. Uh which was pushed out in August. Uh again, this is the end of September. Yep. Uh in states east All states east. of the Mississippi plus the Dakotas, Nebraska, and a bit of Wyoming. Just a. Just a touch of Wyoming. For flavor. That's right. >> Like the Z. For that mesquite flavor. >> Right. Uh.

however, they were from different. production plants, and they were sold in. different drugstores. Which is weird. It's tough to wrap your head around it. cuz it's the same lot, but they came. from different plants. And it turns out. Tylenol has also a really weird. convoluted distribution network. >> that's every company. Okay. I have a. friend that works in supply chain. management, and I was like, huh? It's so. supposedly they'll they'll take boxes. and open them up and repackage them in. smaller boxes. And it happens at like. different different companies at.

different points around the country. >> pretty complicated. >> It is. >> From from a product from factory to your. mouth. Right. >> Like what happens to kind of everything. Yeah. Um. I would think simplicity would be safer. Much. >> You know? Probably not cheaper, though. You're probably right. So, what they. finally figured out was, here's what we. think happened, is. this stuff was not tainted at the. factory. This stuff was not tainted in. the supply chain. But this stuff was.

tainted. it from the store and then returned back. to the store. >> Right. Because these. pills were sold in different stores, which is a big one because not only. could it have been like part of the. factory, >> Mhm. it could have been one of the local. stores' distribution centers where there. was somebody messing with it. >> Right. >> But since they were sold in Jewel Food. Stores and Walgreens and other places, too, around the Chicago area, that. didn't make any sense. It couldn't have. just been like the Jewel Distribution.

Center. And also, because they were. coming from different production plants, it really couldn't have been the. production plant or the factory where it. came from. It had to be, like you said, happening at the stores. Yeah, and there were a lot of initial. theories, you know, was it someone who. like a former disgruntled employee of. Johnson & Johnson? >> Right. Was it someone. Was it a just a serial killer. who just picked Tylenol and wanted to. randomly kill people? Right, and this is. That's weird. That's a weird idea at the.

time. Like now it just seems normal. Like yeah, probably. That's sad. >> But this But this was 2 years before the. San Ysidro McDonald's massacre, which is. one of the very. one of the next random Yeah. killings of. people who just happened to be in the. wrong place at the wrong time. This is. kind of the first of that, but it was. still so new and remote and alien that. that's that didn't seem like a realistic. idea at the time. Yeah, some of the. other ideas they thought maybe this was.

someone that was targeting a specific. person or people. and then randomly poisoned other people. to cover their tracks. >> Yeah. Uh one of the weird. um. one of the weird theories that came out. later after and spoiler alert, we now. have tamper-proof uh medicines. Sure everyone's noticed. >> Uh-huh. There was one theory that it was. someone who had a financial stake in. tamper-proof technology. Yeah, I saw something like that, too. I.

don't think that was ever a ton of. credence put into that one, but point is. there were a lot I mean, they were. flying blind basically cuz it was just. such an unexpected odd random thing. They were basically coming up with kind. of any idea they could think of. But the. one that the cops settled on and the one. that Johnson & Johnson also settled on, too, because they went back and tested. samples from lot MC 2880 and found that. there was no No, there was no tainting. of the of the lot. That there was Their. samples were pure. So, the cops and.

Johnson & Johnson both decided they. settled on what's called the mad. poisoner theory. Right. >> That somebody went around this 50-mi. radius in in the Chicago area um in. about 7 hours is what the cops. calculated it would have taken. Either. bought a bunch of Tylenol and then took. it back to their house and poisoned it, repackaged it, and then drove around and. redistributed it, or went from store to. store, went in, bought some Tylenol, took it out to the car, Mhm. poisoned.

it, and then repackaged it and brought. it back in. Um but that it was local and. it was specific to Chicago. That was the. the mad poisoner theory. And again, why. still no one has any idea why. Um it. could have been random, they could have. been targeting somebody, it could have. been a disgruntled Johnson & Johnson. employee, but the the main theory for. the Tylenol killings of 1982 in Chicago. is the mad poisoner theory. Yeah, and do. you know how they tested that the rest. of that lot? How? They got Detective.

John Pinky McFarland, who had the best. drug pinky in all of Illinois. Right. And he went around and dipped that pinky. in. Yeah. Touched it to his tongue. Yeah. And said, "It's good." He's like, "I can't feel my face right now.". >> The guy's a legend. Yeah, he's His pinky. is His pinky ring is so significant he. can barely lift his finger. He only. lifts it to test drugs. I told you we'd. find some jokes. Sure. So, by mid-October, this is sort of the the. final bit of part one here.

Um there was another bottle. that people that they found, another. tainted bottle This is so crazy. >> that was purchased on September 29th, so. it fit the bill. And it was a woman who. was feeling bad and went to go get that. Tylenol, and her sister was like, "No, I've got some Bufferin right here. Just. go ahead and take that.". >> Mhm. And the lady presumably said, "Well, I really prefer a seat of an. infant, but I guess I'll take an. aspirin." So, yeah. Her her. sister-in-law saved her by offering her.

Bufferin instead. >> You believe that? >> She was steps away from dropping dead at. a family gathering. >> Unbelievable. Yeah. And that is a good place to stop, huh? Yeah. So, that's part one of the Tylenol. murders or time murders with an S. And. we're going to come back with part two. after this. If you want to get in touch. with us in in the meantime, you can go. on to stuffyoushouldknow.com and check. out our social links, or you can send us. a good old-fashioned email, 1982. version, to. stuffpodcast@iheartradio.com.

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