SYSK’s Fall True Crime Playlist: The Tale of the Bloody Benders | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW

[Music]. This mind-boggling episode is a oldtimey. true crimey. It concerns one of the. worst families to ever set up shop in. Kansas, which is really saying. something. In the early 1870s, the. Bender family's surreptitious killing. spree carried out in their own home, no. less, resulted in the murders of at. least 21 people, which earned the family. the nickname the Bloody Benders. This. episode will knock your socks off, assuming they're still on your feet. after the other episodes so far.

[Music]. >> Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a. production of iHeart Radio. [Music]. >> Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm. Josh, and there's Chuck and Jerry's. here, too. So, this is Stuff You Should. Know, the Murder Family Edition. >> Yeah. Halloween right around the corner. >> I've always liked to think of Yum, Mei, and Jerry as a kind of murder family.

>> Uh, as in you, and I, and Jerry, right? We always have to correct that because. people think you're talking about Yumi, your wife. >> That's right. Okay. Yes. >> You, you, me, you, me, ga. >> No, no. I mean me, my wife, Yumi, and. Jerry. I've always thought of us as No, I'm kidding. >> How did I miss what you said, though? You thought of us as what? A murder. family. >> A murder family. Yeah, >> sure. In the kindest possible way. >> Exactly. Exactly. Um, no, we're no. murder family. And after everybody.

learns about the Bloody Benders, they'll. be like, "Yeah, Josh and Chuck and Jerry. are no murder family." Um, and we. wouldn't want to be either because it. turns out murder families are not so. great, Chuck. >> Uh, right. And can we shout out a. listener who submitted this topic? >> Oh, yeah. Definitely. >> That's I feel like that's happening more. and more lately. >> A lot. Yeah. As our world gets smaller, our listeners are reminding us that it. is quite large. Uh, and we got this one. from a Canen. >> Oh, that's very appropriate. >> Is that how you say it? Kzen.

>> I think it's Caninianite. >> Okay. Kanzinianite. uh named Star White. And apparently Star. was traveling uh with the family through. Kansas. >> and saw signs in Montgomery County for. the benders, the bloody benders. >> and things commemorating this and said, "I'm a can a Tanzanianite.". >> And I had no idea that this was a thing. Uh I got to learn more about this. So. we're doing one. You know, we like to.

keep it spooky in October where we can. >> Sure. For sure. >> And there's nothing spookier than a. serial killing family. Interestingly. too, um this past I think March, um what. I'm taking to be is a one of the. definitive books on the benders came. out. Uh it's called Hell's Halfacre. Uh. and it is by an author named. >> named a drum roll. >> named Susan Jonus. That's how I'm going. with her last name. But it came out in.

March. It's called Hell's Head Faker. And um it does look pretty awesome. So, I figured that had to do with this, but. no, it's just completely off the cuff. from a listener from Kansas. Huh. >> Just driving through. >> Great name, too, by the way. Star White. What a great name. It's almost like Star. Wipe. >> Now, when do you like it? It's your. favorite transition. >> That's right. >> Uh I do know a bender actually, but this. is I don't think there's any uh. relation. >> Yeah, because it's not entirely clear. that that was even their names, too. So,

we should tell everybody. We're talking. about a family that lived in Kansas in. the 1870s at a time when Kansas was like. the frontier, maybe even maybe even. beyond the frontier. Um, the Trail of. Tears had happened by this time. So, the. Oage uh people who had lived there. previously have been forced off their. land and moved further west to Oklahoma. And the federal government said, "Come, anybody, all you criminals, you. unsaavory characters, people escaping. your past, come and settle here in.

Kansas. It's like Australia, but in the. center of the United States.". >> That's right. Did you do bad things back. east, >> right? >> Just pick up your bags and head west. >> That's precisely right. And so, a lot of. them stopped in Kansas. Again, this was. the frontier, but people were still. going west, too. So, um, as we'll find. out, this this family, the Bender. family, kind of put up a a claim or set. down a claim. They did something with. the claim. I'm not not quite up on my. like, um, old prospector terminology. >> They claimed something. >> Yeah. On this road that kind of kept.

leading west and they they set up a. tavern, an inn for people to stop in, which is neither here nor there quite. yet, but I just kind of wanted to. foreshadow that there's going to be a. tavern coming in the future. >> That's right. And that's probably a. generous term for what they set up. Yeah. >> Uh it was a pretty remote Well, I guess. you know, not to make too many Kansas. jokes, but uh it was a pretty remote. part of Kansas in uh southeastern Kansas. in 1870. >> Uh it was not Cherryville yet, but it. would eventually become Cherry Veil,

>> right? >> And at first, the two uh gentlemen. arrived. John Bender Senior, he was. around 60 years old. Uh people called. him Pa. He didn't talk a lot. Uh when he. did talk, it was mostly in German. Uh, and then he was with a younger guy in. his 20s. And, you know, we're going to. say things like identified as his son. or, you know, may or may not have been. the daughter. Like, this is because. >> of a lot of things. Uh, partially just, you know, a lot of record keeping back.

then wasn't super solid. Uh, especially. when it turns out you may be using. aliases and you may be faking that. you're a family or you may actually be a. family. No one really knows for sure uh. the facts of this, but uh John Bender. Jr. was with him. Uh and he also. occasionally went by an alias. Uh put a. pin in this one named uh John Ghart. >> Chris Gart. Now he's a comedian. He's great. I know. But apparently John Gart or John Bender.

Jr. um was a bit of a comedians himself. But from some reports, he was his own. audience and no one else was. So to put. it another way, he apparently laughed at. stuff like inappropriately like Dr. Hibbert. Um and also at times when. Exactly. That was a great John Bender. Jr. impression by the way. But um at. times where people were like this this. guy ain't quite right. And he also. talked a lot. So he was kind of an odd.

fixture as well as we'll find out the. whole family was. Yeah, he had a German. accent but did speak fluent English. Uh, and some people think he may have been. intellectually disabled. Um, looking at. kind of some of the things that. happened, it seems like uh I don't know. about clear, but you know, at a time in. 1870, they wouldn't have been. categorizing people as such anyway, you. know. >> No, for sure. But from the the articles. of the time, that's what I'm going with.

from now on. Um they they they nobody. said anything even remotely like that. I. saw it on one I think like Crime Reads. article and that was about it. I just. got the the uh impression that it was. really kind of weird and almost like a a. Jethro Clampet type. That's who he. reminds me of. >> Okay. Uh so what they built uh on their. 160 acres was uh you called it a tavern. I call it just a big room kind of like a. bunk a bunk house maybe they call it or.

Livia who helped us with this called it. a foot house. >> Mhm. >> Uh but it was 16 ft wide 24 ft long. >> So what they eventually did was they. would uh put up a a canvas sheet kind of. splitting it in two. They lived in the. back and then they called you know they. called it an inn. Uh you called it a. tavern. It was really just a room with. some canned goods and supplies and I. think a couple of beds, right? >> Uh sort of like a bunk house. It was not. fancy at all. >> No, but I'm guessing like as you were. passing through Kansas back then and.

maybe even today, it was pretty. appealing, >> you think? Well, I mean, it was better than. sleeping out on the open prairie with. the bed roll, right? You know, there was. a hot meal. You know, they probably had. tobacco and Yeah. I mean, it was better. than nothing. And I think I get the. impression also, one of the things that. made it better than nothing was um the. daughter who I say we meet right now, her name was Kate, and she showed up. after this this tavern, this house had. been built. That's right. Uh the two.

ladies were sent for after everything. was done. And it was Ma Bender, uh who. everyone just sort of assumed was the. wife and the uh the matriarch of the. family. Uh she went by Elvara sometimes. uh she was maybe in her 50s and. led on like she didn't speak any if uh. very little if any English at all. >> but had like a terrible temper. She was. widely reputed from anybody that met her. that she was just a terrible cuss of a. person from what I I gather.

>> Yeah. In fact, I think she may have been. the one sort of leading this whole. charge that we'll get to. >> I've seen both. I've seen her or I've. seen Kate. And Kate Kate was the. daughter. She was um in her 20s, but I. think more than anything um she uh kind. of attracted passers by with flyers um. advertising her mediumship, like she was. into spiritualism and free love. apparently, too. >> And who knows what that means in 1870s.

Kansas. >> She was showing a little ankle. >> I don't know. Like I have no idea what. free love means in that context, but it. was unusual at least and got attention. M. >> um some people thought she may have been. the daughter. Other people thought that. they presented uh she and John Jr. as um. a couple. So it was just sort of one of. those things. It's it's it's loose out. there in 1870s Kansas. >> Right. So one other thing I read, Chuck, that Livia didn't quite hit on um was. that this family, they they weren't like. exactly, you know, fading into the.

woodwork or the prairie. like they were. well known in their little community. mainly because there were only like. eight or 10 other settlements around. them at the time, but also because I. think they were the only ones running a. tavern and they had an orchard that will. factor in later. But apparently their. cherries and apples and peaches were. like really prized out there at the. time. So they were part of the. community, but they were known to be. weird and ma in particular was you just. kind of avoided her as best as you. could.

>> Right. So, they have this thing set up. Uh, it's on the edge of the Great Oage. Trail, which is, uh, like you mentioned. earlier, where a lot of people continued. westward. And it was a good place to. have a a little bunk house that that, you know, sold a few things. Uh, a. what's the word I'm looking for? >> Uh, general store. >> No. >> Um, a Ali's bargain house. >> Rations. >> Oh, okay. >> Yeah. Selling rations and things like. that. >> They sell rations at Ali's. >> What is Ali's? It's like um a deep.

discount liquidary. Like if you stole a. a a truck, you just drive it over there. and they'll buy everything and then turn. around and sell it. I don't think they. actually do that, but it's the. appearance of that kind of thing. >> Uh yeah, we should be clear. We're not. letting I've never heard of Ali, so I'm. uh I'm innocent of this. >> You should go wander around one. You'll. be like, "Ah, okay. I got you. Here's an. Oriental rug. Here's um some off-brand. bleach on the next aisle." Like it's. just just that. Really? >> Yes. Oh, yeah. It's like these places. >> all over the place in every strip mall.

in every city in every in every country. in the world. >> It may be one of those things that's so. ubiquitous. I've just never noticed it. Like right right under my nose. >> It's possible. >> All right. So, they set up an ali right. there on the Great Oage Trail. And maybe. this is a good place to take our first. break. >> Oh, I wasn't expecting that. Let me see. Okay, that sounds good.

[Music]. Okay, Chuck. So, um, one of the things. that, um, made the Benders made us call. the Benders a murder family is that they.

started murdering people pretty shortly. after they set up this homestead along. the Oage Trail. And one of the things. about Kansas at the time was it was. really, really violent. um not just in. the the wars against the Native. Americans there. Um there were also um. pro-slavery and anti-slavery factions. that committed atrocities against one. another. Um the Civil War II kind of. broke out thanks to Kansas um struggling.

which kind of state it was going to be. Um, so it was a really violent place and. it was with that kind of violent. backdrop that a family could just kill a. bunch of travelers with without anyone. really taking notice because it was also. just the kind of place where people just. went missing. It just happened. It was a. really dangerous place to travel. So. when it happened, it didn't exactly like. set off the the media and search parties. didn't usually come out for people. >> Yeah, absolutely. Um, however, when they.

start turning up in regular order around. town, then you've got a problem. And. that's what happened. Yeah. >> Uh, in May of 1871, the body uh of a man. was found in local Drum Creek. Uh, this. is southeast of the Bender's house. And. this is very key here. He had his he had. been brained. had his skull bashed in. and had his throat cut, which as you. will see uh becomes the uh recurring MMO. of this family. >> Yep. Uh two more men were found shortly.

after, I think a few months later, few. months after that. Um another body was. found, all in the creek. And apparently. they all um had that same kind of uh. mortal wound or that combination of. injuries. And one of the um bodies was. identified as a man named William Jones. And he had been carrying known to have. been carrying about $250 which at the. time was like a lot of money to today. Um. >> six grand close to it. >> Okay. And he was going to pay off his.

mortgage for his homestead which is. something people did at that time too. It's another thing that made it. dangerous. A lot of people were walking. around with a lot of cash because they. were going to buy land, pay off. mortgages, do god knows what. And there. weren't banks so they were traveling. with cash. Uh and this guy was exactly. that. And there was a farmer whose land. he was found on that was initially. accused, but they were like, "I I don't. think it was him." So, he got off, but. I'm sure he was like, "Wait, what? What? No, it wasn't me.". >> Yeah. And the way he got off, too, was.

kind of frustrating as a uh like a a. crime enthusiast reader because they. investigated it and they found that uh. the wagon that dropped him had a very. distinctive track that one of the back. wheels was offc center. >> Mhm. >> And I kept waiting for that to come. back. Mhm. >> It's like, remember that wagon? That's. what eventually led to the killers. But, uh, spoiler alert, that does not happen. >> So, >> so don't put a pin in it. Take the pen. out of that. >> Yeah. Just take throw that pin away.

Break it in two. >> So, um, the the the thing about I think. one of the reasons why people started. getting hot under the collar about these. murders, too, is that this area got a. really bad reputation really fast. Like, it was like you avoid the spot as best. you can. like maybe go out of your way. to avoid this area on the Oage Trail. because people just wind up missing. there. >> Um, and that kind of got people. >> aware of like the whole the whole. problem that the area was facing, but.

they didn't know who it was, and they. certainly hadn't centered on the. Benders. The Benders just had a. reputation as being odd and um possibly. a little um. maybe violently unusual, but not. murderers by any stretch. They just. weren't suspected for a really long. time. >> Violently unusual. >> Yeah. >> What a reputation. >> Yeah, that's pretty serious. >> Uh here's another story, too, that you. do need to get that pen out, put it back. together that you Josh told you to break.

in half. >> I'm sorry, everybody. and put a pin in. this story because this was uh. chronologically speaking, February 1873, uh a woman who didn't really have any. money apparently stopped at the home, asked to rest, asked for some food, uh. fell asleep on a bed in the back, and. then when she woke up, there was Ma. Bender, and she pointed to a table. covered in pistols and knives and said, "There, your supper's ready." Right.

>> So, this lady somehow apparently manages. to stay composed and not like react with. alarm. >> after like waking up. >> Fiddlesticks. >> Yeah, exactly. And said, "I just need to. step outside for a minute to to do. something." Just apparently made a. private excuse what the uh Kansas City. Times said. >> Yeah. >> And um and ran and took off running. barefoot basically, you know, in her. sleeping clothes, ran for a couple of. miles to find help. >> Mhm. And it's hard to parse together.

what this sentence from the times even. means, but I'm taking it to mean that it. didn't really it still didn't set off. alarm bells for this family. >> It didn't. And that, by the way, is a. classic example of being violently. unusual. >> Right. Okay. >> You know, they were just if you're. violently unusual, you have the kind of. house that people run two miles away. from in their bare feet. >> Yeah. Where guns and knives are. presented as supper. >> Exactly. Right. So, this is just kind of. going along. The the Benders are humming.

along doing their murdering thing. People don't really suspect them, but. the area's got a bad reputation. But. there was a a series of murders, actually a combo, one two punch of. murders that finally led to their. discovery as a murder family. And the. first thing started with a guy named. George Newton Longor who um left. Independence, Kansas, which was just to. the west of Cherry Veil along the Oage. Trail. And he was on his way to Iowa. So. he would have passed through Cherry um.

along with his 18-month-old daughter. Maryanne. And he never made it to Iowa. And that caught the attention of another. man, a physician named William York, who. was his neighbor, and was concerned. enough that he started traveling around. inquiring about him to see if he could. figure out what happened to George and. his daughter Maryanne. >> Yeah, good neighbor. >> Yeah, really good neighbor. >> Like to do such a thing, to take this. trip. So, starts investigating, finds. out that the the horse and wagon team uh.

was abandoned uh near Fort Scott, Kansas. and in the spring. Um, I mean, I. think that's what led him to go out. there. So, he's out there in the spring. He gets to Fort Scott. Uh, all that. stuff is still there. Basically, all of. their stuff had been abandoned. They. were nowhere to be found. So, he's like, "Something is going on. I need to go. back to Independence." And then he. disappears. >> Yeah. And that really caught the. attention of people because it turned. out Dr. William York, and if I said.

Edward the first time, please forgive. me. His name was William and he was a. doctor and he was a York. And there were. two other Yorks. He had a brother named. Edward who was neither here nor there, but he had a really important brother. named uh Alexander York who was a. colonel from the Civil War and also a. Kansas senator. So they they had. murdered the brother of a Kansas senator. who was known to be out looking around. the area of Cherry for somebody else who. had gone missing. And that really got. people's antenna up. >> Yeah. Big time. uh enough to where they.

got a search party. Uh Colonel Alexander. uh I think about 75 men set off and they. were, you know, they were scouring. around. They were uh they basically kind. of figured out at one point that they. definitely went by the bender's house. So, let's go by and talk to these. people, see what's going on. uh when. they do this mob bender um you know. claims to not speak English which seems. like her her main jam her big joke. besides here's your supper of guns and. knives was I also don't speak English.

>> uh Kate uh young Kate says I don't know. anything about this guy and then John Jr. said hey listen I was shot at when I was. out there at Drum Creek where all these. like bodies have been found. >> and I can take you out there and like. maybe the people that shot at He killed. your friends as well. >> Yeah. And again, just imagine Jethro. Clampet saying this and taking people. out to look at a place where he claims. to have been shot at. Right. >> I just I love that bit. So, um, so but.

he's also just kooky, you know. Um, did. you watch the Beverly Hillbillies? >> I did. >> like a lot. >> Uh, yeah. Yeah, I watched it a lot. >> So, do you remember the time or the. period? I guess it was a phase where. Jethro ended up um becoming like a movie. producer in Hollywood. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Got a little weird later in that show. >> It really did get weird. So, it's not. clear whether this is that Hollywood. producer of Jethro or the original uh.

mountaineer son of Jethro. Either way, it works pretty good. But he takes. Alexander and the search party out. there. I guess he gave enough of an. explanation and was, you know, pointing. out different spots well enough that. they're like either they believed him or. they just didn't really care and they. kind of headed on basically. >> Yeah. I mean, he showed bullet holes in. a tree or not holes but bullet markings. >> Mhm. >> Uh which, you know, Kansas in the 1870s. about half the trees had bullets in. them. >> Sure.

>> So that doesn't prove anything, but like. you said, it was enough at least to. sniff them slightly off the case. uh at. least temporarily. Um but they came back. a few days later said, "Listen, we heard. about this lady over the past few days. >> who came here and I don't want to really. start anything, but she said that you. said, "Here's your supper." And it was. guns and knives. >> There was something about a a pistol. supper or something like that. >> And that's that's weird. She ran away.

barefoot for two miles and no one made a. big deal out of it. But now we kind of. want to know. This is where Ma Bender. all of a sudden starts speaking English. Uh apparently the quote is she flew into. a violent passion. >> and went off saying, you know, that that. lady was a witch and she has uh you know. cursed Kate's coffee that and that she. was going to drink and if she ever comes. back here, I'm going to kill her. We got. her out of here. She was a witch. >> Yeah. She converted Kate's coffee into.

that mushroom coffee and now Kate. refuses to drink it. What's mushroom. coffee? >> It's exactly what it sounds like. Except. magic doesn't actually have coffee. No. >> Oh, it's made out of mushrooms. >> Yeah. Uh yeah, you should try it. sometime just to say you tried it. >> Yeah. That's what uh on those survival. shows, they get like roots and twigs and. boil that stuff down and they're like, "Here's my morning coffee." Like coffee. >> Have fun with that. So um so they so. again still like they were kind of like.

okay this family's really weird but we. don't really have anything on them but. it was enough that um Alexander York. kind of stuck around town and they held. a meeting um with for basically the. whole town that um P and John Jr. even. attended and they said hey this place. has a bad reputation. Something's going. on. These two people at the very least. have been have turned up missing. we. need to just search everyone's. homestead. And apparently very uh. brassily.

uh at least one neighbor said, "I've got. nothing to hide. Search my homestead.". And P said the same thing. He said, "I. don't either. You guys search my. homestead." And so I guess they kind of. did a slow motion search because it was. at least a week I saw if not a couple. weeks before they finally made it out to. search the bender place. And when they. showed up, they realized very quickly. that the benders weren't there. and. probably hadn't been there since the. night of that uh meeting. >> Yeah. When they realized they told. people to come search their house.

>> You said what? My favorite part about. Kate's jam is that they asked her to do. the seance to like give some more. information like well if you're so good. at that. >> And she said no it's like it's it's. daytime. There's too many people around. Like have you ever seen a seance? She. was like why don't you come back. tomorrow night just the two of you and. we'll do one. And they were like no. thank you. >> Right. I I think I'll take the zero on. that one. >> Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Dr. Colonel, no, Colonel Alexander York was. a a sharp dude basically.

>> Yeah, but the town's people weren't. sharp enough to go. >> I don't know if they were searching. other places. I know there was a weather. issue, >> but like you said, by the time they got. there, they were gonzos. >> Um, they left their uh they they took a. train because they found their horse and. wagon and even their dog just on a. public street near the train station. Mhm. >> Uh and they they got the heck out of. Dodge. Well, not out of Dodge, out of uh. what would become Cherry Veil. >> Very close. Very close. So, the. volunteers were like, "Well, I guess.

since they left, we can just go ahead. and go on in." And apparently they found. very quickly that there was a trap door. in the floor. And when they opened the. trap door, I guess a lot of them gagged. because it smelled like decaying human. remains. And even though they looked in. there and there weren't actual bodies, there was so much blood and gore in this. cellar rotting that it was enough to to. make a person gag even without a full. body decomposing there. >> I think it's a great place for our.

second break. >> Oh, okay. Great. >> The height of suspense. >> Let's do it. >> We'll be back and talk about what was. making that smell right after this. [Music].

All right. So, they have a stone cellar. under the house covered in blood and. stinks like dead bodies even though. there's no dead bodies. And we said we. were going to get to the bottom of the. smell. >> The bottom of it is uh there were dead. bodies in there previously. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, they had this. >> pretty easy. They had the the um the. trap set up, the trap door set up so it. led to a a hole in the cellar and then.

there was a like a way out or I guess a. way in uh from the foundation and they. would kill people, put them in the. trapoor through the trap door to the. cellar and then retrieve them at night. when there weren't prying eyes around. >> Yeah, pretty good system they had going. Uh they started searching around. They. did eventually find bodies. Uh they. found William York's body buried in the. orchard. They found uh Lunker's body. buried along with young Maryanne who uh.

the two gentlemen had the head wounds. and the and the throat wounds. Maryanne. I've seen variously was uh either. suffocated or suffocated from being. buried alive, >> man. >> Uh but not brained and throat slit at. least. Uh tragic either way, of course. >> Sure. Sure. >> Uh but very very sad case. Uh eventually. they would go on to find about a dozen. bodies and were eventually implicated in. as many as 21 murders.

>> Yeah. Um they found Yeah, I saw 11, I. think, including um Maryanne. Um a bunch. of them were in the orchard. They looked. around the the property and realized. that there were a bunch of depressions. in the orchard and they're like, I. wonder if those are graves. And um they. turned up people in the graves, they. found somebody in the well. And then. yeah, when you add them together with. all the people dumped in Drum Creek, I. guess it comes to about 21. And they. developed this uh theory of what had. happened in part based on some uh people.

who had narrowly escaped with their. lives and hadn't realized it until after. the benders um became national news. But. that that curtain that they had dividing. the tavern uh the ali's bargain bin from. the rest of the house um was right. behind the seat where they would have. travelers and guests sit when they were. eating a meal. Right. Yeah. And they would have them sit there. and you know from the other side it.

would you know they would be silhou. silhouetted by the candle light so they. could see clearly where they were and. then P or John Jr. would uh either use. like the the butt of an axe or a hammer. to brain them. Uh they would put them in. the cellar and rob them and then slit. their throat. And uh that's how it was. sort of a. I don't know the fact like all right. let's go ahead and tell the stories. about the other guys because after this. came out people started coming forward.

like you said a guy named Mr. Wetzel. said hey wait a minute they tried to get. me to sit right by that curtain and I. wouldn't sit by the curtain and mob. Bender got really mad about that and so. we got the heck out of there. Uh, and. then another guy named William Pickering. said, "Yeah, I didn't want to sit by. that curtain cuz it was dirty and. gross." And I took a different seat and. they got in a big fight and Kate came at. me with a knife. >> So, I don't know why they just didn't. come up behind them and brain them. Like. the maybe they felt the curtain offered.

some sort of cover. It just seems very. like stubborn. >> Oh, like they had to follow procedure or. else the person was allowed to live. >> You have to sit there. I'm like, "Well, you can't murder a guy in another. chair.". >> Well, I I don't Yeah, I don't think it. would have been as easy to come up. behind him from the from the curtain. You know what I'm saying? >> Maybe it it sounds a little I mean, I. guess they got away with it for a little. while. So, but it I don't know. It. sounds a little uh amateur-ish. >> Sure. Or they were such professionals.

they just stuck to the script and if the. script deviated, they didn't take. chances. And there's there's actually a. good suggestion of why they didn't take. chances because there were um later. discovered in the house bullet holes um. in the walls and in the door frames. And. that was taken to be from people who had. tried to fight back when they realized. what was going on. Um but I guess they. had ultimately been unsuccessful because. nobody escaped that house saying they. had shot at everyone because they tried. to brain them, you know. >> Or maybe it was just supper.

>> I guess so. Pistol pistol supper. You're. right. who knows. Uh so the story gets. out uh becomes a you know for the 1870s. becomes a pretty big media storm uh. whatever that looked like back back then. >> and people you know it became like a a. bit of a tourist stop like people it. sounds like people essentially showed up. there and kind of looted the place over. time were just kind of you know breaking. up pieces of the cellar and. >> uh breaking up the bed frame and kind of.

just taking whatever they wanted with. them. >> Yeah. And one of the reasons it became. such a media frenzy is they were the. first serial killers in America that. America ever produced, at least as far. as the media could tell. Um, a decade. later, Austin would have what's. frequently referred to as the first. serial killer in America with the. servant girl annihilator, >> which is. >> this was pre uh. >> I don't even know if I want to do a. podcast on that. >> No, I don't. No, that name alone it's. like nah, that's all right. >> That stopped me cold. Uh I mean this was.

10 years before Jack the Ripper even, >> right? Exactly. And HH Holmes, who's. also often referred to as America's. first serial killer, he wasn't until the. um 1830s or 1890s. So he was like a good. 20 years on. So it was a big deal. So. not only did we have America's first. serial killer, we had America's first. dark tourists show up at their house and. take everything they possibly could as a. momento. But one of the things that. happened about this being such a huge. media sensation is that like the country.

was following this and everyone was. basically looking for the benders. because don't forget they'd vanished. No. one knew which way they went. All they. knew is that somewhere not too far off. they'd ridden their wagon to that train. station and the train ticket person had. said, "Yeah, those four people. definitely bought tickets, but I can't. tell you where.". >> Yeah, exactly. >> And they said they said, "You can tell. us. I'm a doctor. >> Uh they did arrest 12 men. Um this.

sounds a little bit like, hey, we've got. to kind of do something. So they arrest. these guys who they alleged uh maybe. were involved as far as receiving stolen. goods because they never really found a. super clear motive. I mean, it seemed. like a lot of them may have had like. traveling money or like the guy who had. the 250 bucks, which was a lot of money. at the time. Um, but they it was never. like 100% established like their motive. was just to rob people. But they. implicated these 12 guys as guys who may.

have helped them move uh stolen items. and and money and stuff like that. And. apparently one of the guys was a member. of a vigilante committee who tried to. get on to help lead the investigation. with Colonel uh York, but uh was denied. and rejected. And uh I think that kind. of hurt his feelings. And I I think what. it came down to was these guys, they. were known as the regulators, these. vigilantes. They were throat cutters. They would cut people's throat instead. of like bringing them back to face trial.

and then they just sort of tied it uh to. these people because of the throat. cutting. >> Yeah. And a lot of innocent a lot of. Well, a lot of innocent people died as a. result. So these people were bad dudes. But I saw that it was more than just the. throat cutting. That there was a way. that they would particularly leave. bodies. Like you they would put the. right hand against the right breast and. the left hand down like just by their. side. >> like a pledge of allegiance. >> almost, but you're you're like as if you. don't know which side of your chest to.

put your hand and you you got it wrong. Kind of like that. >> Okay. And apparently they found a lot of. the bodies in the orchard um at the uh. at the bender place posed like this. basically almost like this was this was. the sign like this is what this gang. did. So I don't think they were like in. the gang but it's possible that gang of. vigilantes were fencing this stuff for. them and that they were at least. tangentially related you know. >> Sure. It's possible. >> Sure. >> Um when it comes down to who these.

people really were. >> Mhm. We're not exactly sure. There's. been a lot of uh modern investigation. about who they were and they think that. Ma was uh a woman named Almira Meek um. and was from uh upstate New York near. the Aderandac Mountains. So, not German. at all. Um, there were some pretty. sketchy accounts, uh, not super well. researched that said she had been. married before and that her husbands had. all met violent deaths from head wounds.

So, you know, I don't know if that's. just the internet running with something. or if that's true. >> Apparently, out of all of the four, the. um, Ma and Kate seem to have actually. been related, although I don't know how. I didn't see how. Did you? like how they were related. >> No, no, no. Like they were supposed to. be mother and daughter, but how did how. did that ever get turned up? Like where. where was that how was that ever defined. or.

>> I think just people doing like modern. research on lineage and stuff like that. >> Okay. >> Because I think they turned up her. original name, too. Uh that Ma was. married to a man named Griffith and that. Kate was really Eliza Griffith. >> Okay. >> Uh John Senior apparently was John. Flickinger. uh and was either from Germany or the. Netherlands. And then John Jr. apparently his real name was the alias. that he was using that I said to put a. pin in. John Ghart. >> And now you can take that pin out and.

break it in half and throw it away. >> Yeah. So if he was using his real name. as an alias, then uh I'm not sure what. was going on with John Jr. >> No. No. He's a Jethro type. Don't. forget. So um the the the there were. people who were like, "Oh, we've seen. the Benders. We saw the benders here. They went this way. They went that way. Um for years and years and years. It was. um like it like people would would. report on their whereabouts. And it's. unclear to this day whether people did.

or didn't know where they went. Um I saw. there was one like kind of article I. guess from the time that was basically. like yeah everybody knows where they are. and there's just nothing anyone can do. they made it to another state and. everybody just kind of leaves everybody. else alone out there. Other people have. always reported like no, they have no. idea where they went. They just kind of. vanished in a thin air and then there. were reports that were usually incorrect. that they'd either been captured or that. they'd been killed. Um or there was one.

report that P died by suicide in Lake. Michigan in 1884. >> Right. Uh another one said John Jr. and. Kate went to uh New Mexico, like sort of. Texas New Mexico border, and John died. of a stroke. Uh some people said that. vigilantes got them and they burned Kate. alive and shot and killed the other ones. >> uh buried him in the prairies, but no. one ever claimed uh the pretty.

substantial reward. You know, close to. 70 grand today. >> So, it seems like none of these stories. were probably true. or maybe who knows. maybe one of them was. There's just no. way to know. >> So, um Laura Ingles Wilder actually had. a family story that I I read that her. daughter basically said, "Hey, you. should weave this into our family. story." So, it's almost certainly not. true that um she and her family on their. way to Homestead uh passed by the the. Bender Tavern, but they didn't have. enough money to go in for food or to.

stay there. But they settled in a close. enough area that after the benders were. found out, um, her father, there was a. knock on her family's door and her. father was summoned outside with his gun. and he didn't come back till morning. But that anytime you ever asked him. about the benders, he would say they're. they'll never be found again. Um, and. again, this isn't true. And one of the. other things that really undermines the. vigilante theory is again 70,000 in. today's dollars was offered as a reward.

somebody from that group of vigilantes. would have stepped up and taken it or so. even if they didn't, how could a group. of vigilantes keep that secret for all. that time that it still to this day. never came up because that would be. something to boast about that you were. among the the group of vigilantes that. caught and killed the the bloody. benders, you know? >> Sure. >> So, I think the vigilante thing is. >> get a book deal at the very least. >> for sure. Uh these days I think it's the. kind of thing where a lot of Kansasites.

know about it. Um you know that they're. they celebrated Bender Days for a while. Uh they had a replica at Cherry Veil at. one point of the Bender House. >> Mhm. Um, more recently, uh, in fact, just a couple of years ago, uh, a. gentleman named Bob Miller, who was a, uh, is a financial adviser from. Independence and a historian and who. knows, maybe a bit of a murder junkie, bought the land, uh, and basically said. like, "Hey, the people that own this.

land never did anything with it. They. never searched for the location of the. the murder sites or the house." And and. I want to do that. I want to like uh. have like professional expert. investigations done on the property. >> Mhm. >> Uh I don't know if he plans to like put. up like a Lizzie Bordon house or. something. Um but he wants to get to the. bottom of what he can at least. >> Right. Yeah. He's he said he's going to. try to get with UK or K State, I don't. remember which one, to do like ground. penetrating surveys, but I don't know.

what his endgame is either. But it's. pretty neat that he bought it. And one. of the reasons why he's feeling good. about finding something is there the. family that he bought it from owned the. land for like the last 65 previous years. and they showed zero interest whatsoever. in finding the actual site and they just. turned it all into crop land. So there's. a good chance that there's something. like the foundation, maybe even that. ghastly cellar, the well that the one. guy was found in remnants of the. orchard. Who knows? There there could be. plenty of stuff left there. Um, I don't.

know if they're going to it. I believe. they exumed all of the bodies that they. found, but that's not to say that they. found every body, you know. >> Yeah, absolutely. Um, there was a movie. made uh in 2016 called Bender that uh. does not look great. >> Did you see the trailer? >> I No, I didn't. I just saw Livia quoted. a user from IMDb that said it had some. of the worst acting I've ever seen. What. was the trailer like? Uh,

not I mean it didn't look great. I read. some other reviews that said it was. okay, but it wasn't like uh super. murdery or super scary. So, it kind of. fell too much toward like historical. drama. >> Oh, they they talked a lot about like. raising and harvesting grain. >> maybe. I don't know. But um there was a. thing that uh in Red Dead Redemption 2. that is funny because I kind of forgot. about this. I played that game a couple. years ago. And um.

>> there's a pig farm where your character. shows up and there's a creepy old lady. and a creepy old man and they're like. trying to get you to stay for dinner. >> Oh yeah. >> And apparently it's modeled after this. And you don't really know and you know. when you're in those games you don't. know quite what to do. Like I feel like. I should leave. It's kind of like real. life. Mhm. You. >> uh but they offer you libations and you. need libations. >> So if you just. >> I don't All right. If you if you want to. play this game and you haven't, it's.

pretty old. Don't listen to this part. >> Okay. >> But if you don't care like most people, uh don't drink the drink because as soon. as you drink the drink, the screen goes. woozy and you wake up the next day. And. I'm not sure that good things happened. overnight. >> Okay. But you're not dead, huh? >> You're not dead. >> That's not very bendery. >> No, it's not. I think they were inspired. by the vendors a little bit, but I don't. know. >> Supposedly, also, um, I've never read. American Gods, the Neil Gaiman book. Have you? Have you read any of his.

stuff? >> Never have. >> I've read some of his short stories and. they're amazing. So, I'm surprised I've. never read his novels, but in American. Gods, um, one of the characters is a. Slavic god named Zernborg. That's what I'm going with. And every. time the benders killed somebody, he. gained strength from their sacrifice, which is a pretty neat little take on. the whole thing, you know, because we're. so like we have the blinders on here on. Earth. We don't even realize this murder. family is actually contributing to the. well-being of a Slavic god.

>> I thought you were going to say whenever. they killed someone, they would yell. Zernburgg. >> That's right. Well, they did that, too. But, um, that was never captured in the. articles from the time, Chuck. Which, by. the way, if you're like, I need to know. more about the Bloody Benders, and I. will not have it filtered through. history. I need the original stuff. There's a website called. genealogytrails.com. And if you search that and Bender family. in your favorite search engine, it will. bring up the crimerelated news articles. from the time about the Bender family.

And it's awesome because it has a bunch. of other details, but also it's got like. that oldtimey 19th century, you know, crime reporting, too, >> right? >> It's just worth reading for sure. It's. always fun. >> You got anything else about the benders? >> Nothing else. >> Well, that's it about the benders for. now, everybody. Uh, and since Chuck said. nothing else, that means it's time for. listener mail. Hey guys, stumbled across you in the. summer of 2020 when I was employed as a.

uh USPS rural carrier associate. >> Uh, not a rural juror. >> I heard of. >> Wait, wait, no. I need to know. What was. that? I can't remember what that's from. >> 30 Rock. >> I still can't place it, but I'll think. about it and I'll say Eureka later. Okay. >> Well, what's funny is after we talked a. little bit about 30 Rock on our sitcoms. episode. >> Mhm. >> and Emily went out of town for a week. and I barreled through season one of 30. Rock. >> Mhm. >> While she was gone. And it was so good.

>> Yeah. It was really good. >> To do it again. >> What a show. God. Alec Baldwin. >> Yeah. >> And Tracy Morgan. >> Yeah. And don't forget Liz Lemon. >> She was great. But uh Oh boy. Baldwin. and Tracy Morgan just slay me on that. show. I mean, everyone on that show was. really funny. >> Yeah. Tracy Morgan's best quote was um. somebody offered him cashews and he. said, "I'm glad you said that cuz I. thought it was a bowl of baby penises.". >> His other good one that I got was uh he.

was talking about how they go together. like peanut butter and he said or like. chicken in the chicken container. That's pretty good. >> So, Rural Jurer though was the movie. that Jane Kowski was in and the joke is. she goes Rur Jur and like no one knows. what the title of the movie is, >> but it had gone so long they couldn't. really ask her uh what the name of the. movie was. I mean, I'm going to keep. watching it. She's so funny, too. I love. her. >> Okay.

>> Uh all right, back to the email. Uh, I. have heard of podcasts before, but never. gave it much thought until a friend. insisted I started to listen to some. And I got to the point in Stuff You. Should Know where I'd talk so much about. y'all. My husband finally caved and. said, "Who the heck are Josh and Chuck. and when are you going to introduce me. to your new friends?". >> Mhm. >> Uh, but now the show is our go-to for. family road trips. >> Awesome. >> Uh, one neat thing I wanted to write. about though was my last dental. appointment in February. I decided to. bring along earbuds so I could listen to. y'all while getting some fillings done.

I asked the dentist and uh the assistant. if it would be okay to listen to the. podcast while they work. And the dentist. said it was okay, but asked me what I. was going to listen to first. I told her. it was stuff you should know and how. much I enjoyed it. And I was listening. to the Chowilla bus kidnapping episode. >> Mhm. >> My dentist lit up and told me how. awesome that episode was. >> Her assistant had never heard of the. show, but the dentist uh was happily. talking about your show. uh so much that. my entire visit uh I didn't get to.

listen to the episode because I was half. chatting to my dentist about stuff you. should know. >> That's awesome. >> Uh thank you for saving me while I was. delivering people's mail and for keeping. me company during my commutes with love. from the land of 10,000 lakes. Uh that. is Tanya Vanderpool. >> from Texas. >> 10,000 lakes. Texas has like two lakes. >> What is that? Uh Minnesota. Minnesota. >> Uh, yeah, right. >> 10,000 Lakes. Yeah, Minnesota.

>> It's got to be Michigan. >> No, >> Minnesota. >> Yeah, it's Minnesota for sure. She. really didn't say you're not toying with. me. >> I don't know. I mean, I'm saying I'm not. toying with you, but I'm also on the. verge of saying so many things that are. wrong about lakes and states that I'm. just stopping. >> That's fine. That's fine. But I do can. you imagine the audacity of just signing. off with the land of 10,000 lakes and. not putting in parenthesis what state. you're talking about? >> I mean, I sign in all my emails Chuck of.

the Peach State. >> Okay. Well, that is pretty audacious. Chuck, it's violently unusual. >> Um, what was the person's name again? >> Minnesota. >> You're in fine form today, aren't you? You're being playful. >> I'm kidding. It was Tanya Vanderpool. Okay, thanks a lot, Tanya. We appreciate. that and we're glad we can keep you. company and that we made your dentist's. appointment so special. If you want to. get in touch with us like Tanya did and. tell us about your dental visits, why.

not? You can send it in an email to. stuffodcast@ iheartradio.com. Stuff you should know is a production of. iheartradio. For more podcasts, iHeart. Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple. Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your. favorite shows. [Music].