SYSK’s Fall True Crime Playlist: The Hinterkaifeck Axe Murders | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW

[Music]. Hi everybody and welcome to our new. playlist for the fall featuring some of. our best episodes on true crime. We've. got so many that it was hard to choose. and we left a number of the all-time. greats out because we've released them. as selects. But if this floats your. boat, then check out some of our other. true crime episodes that didn't make the. list like the Yuba County 5, the body on. Soton Beach, the Missing Solder. Children, and Tendum Criminals among. many others. We're starting the playlist.

off with our episode on a grizzly. unsolved mystery from 1922 in Bavaria. where a family was found murdered on. their farm. It has all sorts of weird. twists and turns and it's a genuinely. mysterious unsolved case. Okay, here we. go. >> Welcome to Stuff You Should Know from. howuffworks.com.

Hey and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh. Clark with Charles W. Chuck Bryant and Jerry. >> Yep. And this is stuff you should know. >> Yeah. I would say this is a bonus. Halloween episode in a way. Uh you can. all look forward to our regular um ad. free Halloween show on Halloween. >> The real bonus episode. Yeah, exactly. Where we do our traditional reading. It's all gussied up by Jerry, but uh you.

were like, "Hey, since this is Hello. Weekend almost, right, why don't we just. tell the story of an axe murdered. family?". >> Yeah. >> I hope I didn't spoil it. >> I don't think so. I think we probably. would have gotten to that point. eventually, right? >> Yeah. So, we decided to just do a little. creepy episode. this one. Uh, if you. have your children, you may want to. >> vet this one because it's definitely. about an ex-murdered family. >> Yeah. Don't be a sicko. >> It's up to you whether or not you want. to expose them to this kind of.

treachery. >> This is bad stuff. >> You ready for it? >> You get your German pronunciation down. by the way. Should we talk about. >> Hinter K? >> Kixia. >> Hintter kick. Yeah. Disha Changia Cheng. >> Dishia Chun more specifically. >> right. >> the irony of all this. >> because why should I ever get it right. at all. >> the irony of all this is I was almost. right when I first said it.

>> and said I don't think Chinese. pronounces the X. >> right. >> but um this one is just a little more. stings a little more because we made. such a big deal about it being correct. and the pronunciation wasn't correct but. we were misled on the internet yeah and. uh That happens. >> It happens. Still got everything else. right. >> So Dixia Chang is really Disha Chung. sort of. >> Uhhuh. >> Okay. >> And Hinter Kayek. >> Hinter Kyek.

>> Hinter Kyek. >> Yeah. >> Right. >> Yeah. I looked over these. My German is. rusty, but. >> I think I got them all. >> Yeah, most of them. I bet you're going. to stumble on one, but I'll just hold on. to that. >> I don't even know which one you're. talking about. >> I know. That's what's going to make it. exciting. >> Oh man. Maybe we should have a sound. effect when it happens and I'll just uh. >> like a boring. >> Sure. >> Okay. >> That'll disrupt the spookiness. >> Well, let's get Spooky Chuck, shall we? >> Yes. >> Cuz there's a little town um in Bavaria.

>> That's correct. >> It's um between the towns of Inglestat. and Shroenhausen. Was that either one of. the ones you thought I was going to. stumble on? >> No. Well, I mean, technically you should. say likeat instead of start. >> Oh, well, I didn't realize we were. getting technical, >> but uh you know, you're you're not from. Germany. That's how an American might. say it, >> right? And by God, I'm an American. >> That's right. >> Um although it's much closer to Videoen.

Is that the one? I'm just gonna ask. every time I say something in German, >> you'll hear the sound effect. But. there's a little little tiny village, a. town called Kayek. >> And um. >> Hinter Ky. >> No. Well, the town Oh, right. The. village is called Kyifek. >> Yeah. >> There was a a ranch basically you'd call. it in America. A dude ranch maybe even, but not really. It was just a farm. Um. called Hinter Kyek. It was located a. little bit outside of this village in. the Hinterland you might call it.

>> Right. >> So this the name of this farm was Hinter. Kek. Kyifek. And on this farm lived a. man, a woman, another woman, some little. kids. >> Yeah. >> This is going terribly, isn't it? >> No, I think it's great. >> So, the the family who who made up this. uh the tenency of this farm, they were. uh the Grubers. >> Yes. >> Andreas Gruber was the father. >> His wife um.

>> is this the one? Okay. All right. Let me. do this then. You ready? >> Yeah. >> Uh, the wife's name was. Kazilia. >> Silia. Frank. >> No. If I'm not mistaken, if you begin a. word with C in German and it's. pronounced like a like a TS. >> So that TS for me. >> I think that would be Tatsilia. >> What? That's not fair.

>> I know, right? >> Come on, Germany. Um, >> Tatilia. Okay. Well, let me ask you. this. So, Tatilia. >> Yeah. >> Am I saying it right now? >> I think Tatilia. >> Well, that's Italian. >> It does sound Italian. >> So, Tatilia is his wife. >> Uhhuh. >> That's to be determined. Uh, their. daughter Victoria. So, if there's a K. instead of a C, is it something else. entirely or is it Victoria? >> Victoria. >> Okay. And there's two grandchildren. The. oldest was a granddaughter.

>> Mhm. Now, she has an umla on over her. name, even though it's spelled otherwise. the exact same as her grandmother, Tatzilia. So, how would you say that? >> It would be a tertilia. >> Totsilia. >> T. >> Yeah. Tertilia. >> Tootsilia and Tatilia. >> Tatilia and Tertilia. >> So, it wouldn't be like Tatilia and. Tatilia Jr. >> I don't I know. I mean, I've never seen. anyone. name their.

It just seemed unusual to me. I didn't. know if the first name was missing the. umlout or if they really named her after. her grandmother but added the umlout. Maybe there's a story there. >> Well, you know, Chuck, as we'll find, a. lot of the the details and facts of this. case have been lost to time. >> That's right. >> Lastly, there was a little boy, a. 2-year-old named Ysef that was. Victoria's son. And Victoria um was uh. widowed. She was 35 I believe at the. time that we come into Hinter Kyek. And.

um they all lived together relatively. isolated actually because they the. Grubers although they were wealthy and. from what I saw held in somewhat high. esteem or at least treated um with. respect to their station, they were very. very much disliked as a family. >> Yeah. And there's quite a few reasons. for this. Uh one is that uh the Patter. Familas Andreas was um he was not.

friendly. He liked to keep to himself. and apparently he was very abusive to. his wife and children. >> Yeah. >> Uh children, he only had one living. child still at this point, which is. Victoria. And we're in the wayback. machine, by the way, and it's 1922. >> Oh, we didn't say that. >> I don't think so. So, he was abusive. I. don't know the story of the passing of. his other children. >> Lost a time. >> Lost a time. My immediate reaction was. like, well, if he was abusive and. they're no longer around, maybe he had.

something to do with it. >> Maybe. But. >> a leap, a total leap. >> Also, the time when like people. routinely died from the flu. >> Sure. >> You know, >> that's a good point. Uh, so he was a. loner. He was abusive. Uh, there was the. matter of Yseph, the 2-year-old daughter. of Victoria. >> son. Uh yeah. Jeez. Daughter. I don't. know where I was going with that. Um and. he was rumored uh to have been born from. an incestuous relationship with her. father. >> Yeah.

>> Andreas. >> Right. That was the rumor in town, >> which smacks to me of small town 1920s. stuff. I'm not sure if I bought that. >> No, but that was definitely the the. rumor in town. Yeah. But there was a a. significant number of people in town who. either believed that or were very much. aware that other people believed that. >> Yeah. Because he apparently was very. controlling of Victoria. >> Kind of to the level of being. characterized as obsessed with her. >> Yeah. So it could very well be true.

>> Could lost a time. >> Could also have not been true. And. there's other reports that Joseph was. the son of another man in town who we'll. meet later on. um who at one point. claimed paternity but later on said no. way. >> Right. >> Especially I think when the concept of. alimony payments was brought up. >> That's right. >> He's like no kid was a product of incess. instead. >> So Victoria was the only one supposedly. that kind of spent a lot of time in town. and that people seem to care for much.

because she sang in the choir. Apparently was a very good singer. >> uh in the church choir. And um so this. is the the scene here in semi-ruural uh. Bavaria. >> Yeah. And we we want to give a shout. out. We've given um we we found some. other articles. about the um case itself, but the main. one that we started with was from. mysteriousuniverse.org. >> Oo. >> Not a normal place where we would get. our stuff, but it's a good article.

>> Yeah. Yeah, and we we everything else I. read about it, it sort of all checked. out as being the same. >> So, uh, >> way to go, mysterious universe.org. >> Good job. >> Thanks for it. >> So, things start to get a little weird. on the farm when the maid at the farm, whose name. >> may or may not be Maria, we don't know. Uh, she said, "I'm out of here. I quit. because this house is uh haunted.". >> Yeah. >> I'm hearing weird noises in the attic. >> Mhm. Hearing weird sounds all around the.

place. I'm hearing footsteps. Uh, I'm. out of here. >> Yeah. And apparently she left pretty. quickly and suddenly. And the family so. much so was like, "Yeah, I think she was. mentally disturbed.". >> Sure. That's an easy way to. >> quiet the town's people if you don't. want cuckoo. >> Yeah. You don't want people thinking. like, "A, I'm abusive and b I also live. in a haunted house, >> right?" Yeah. You don't want that. That's where you draw the line. >> Incest, abuse. Sure, that's allowable,

but you don't want people to think you. got ghosts, you know? >> Right. >> So, the maid leaves and that kind of. sets the tone like that kicks off this. season of dread o that settles over. Hinter Kyek. >> That'd be a good name for the movie. version of this. Yeah. >> Season of Dread. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I can't believe there's not a number of. like blockbuster movies about this. >> Yeah, I looked it up. Apparently, there. were a couple that weren't very big. Um, but nothing nothing that ever starred. Rafe Fines.

>> Well, if it doesn't have him, >> like, who cares? >> He would clearly be one of the dudes in. this. >> Sure. >> You know, >> maybe even Andreas Gruber, who I keep. wanting to call Hans, I'm going to go. ahead and admit. >> Yeah, >> you see the name Gruber, and that's what. jumps to mind. >> Yeah. >> So, the maid leaves, and like I said, this weird things start happening. Um. few months later, Andreas is um. wandering around his uh property around.

Durk Kyifek. >> Wandering around, >> right? Yeah. >> Just looking aimlessly for something to. do. >> I think there was. >> family member to punch. >> There was a snowstorm and he uh was. looking around to see, you know, if. there had been any damage, anything that. need repairing and he noticed that there. was a set of tracks in the snow, human. tracks, footprints. I guess is a better. way to call them. >> Sure. >> Leading to the house. And they went. right up to the house. >> Yeah. >> But he looked around and he could not.

find any tracks leading away from the. house. >> Creepy. >> Super creepy. >> Just a single set though, right? >> Yeah. >> It wasn't like uh. the footsteps uh like God carried him. from there that point on. >> Well, that would be a single step set. >> Uh well, you know that old adage. Sure. There were two sets of footprints and. then when there were only one, >> it wasn't that God left you. It was when. he was carrying you. That's right. >> Your sorry ass. >> That's a great story. Whether even if. you're not religious, you got to see. that and be like, man, that makes me.

feel good. >> Yeah. Because anytime you get to that. point, >> Yeah. >> Jesus goes zing. Doubt me, will you? >> Uh, so footprints leading to the house, not leading away. Creepy, creepy, creepy. >> Right. He was a little creeped out. So he said, "Let me wander around more and see if I. can find. >> Well, at this point, he wasn't. wandering. He had purpose.". >> Okay. So, let me not wander aimlessly, but let me go from room to room and barn.

to barn room. >> Yeah. >> Barn room to barn room and find out this. person that is clearly on my property. somewhere. >> Yeah. He did like a hard target search. looking for somebody at either somebody. hiding out on his property or evidence. that whoever left that track, those. tracks leading to his house had left. looking for other tracks away from the. house. And he didn't find anything. He. found Yeah. >> nothing. No evidence of anybody. He. certainly didn't find anybody. He didn't. There was just nothing. Um, one thing.

though that he did find that was kind of. off-putting to him enough so that he. mentioned it to neighbors was that on. his tool shed, which was separate from. the barn, >> the tool shed had a lock on it and the. lock had scratches or evidence that. somebody had been trying to either break. it or pick it. >> Correct. >> And they were trying to get into the. tool shed and he did not like that. So. this is. >> this is again this is following on the. heels of their their maid leaving.

>> Yeah. >> Be citing ghosts as the reason she left. >> Yeah. >> Somebody has come to their farm and not. left. >> They tried to get into the tool shed. The things are getting a little creepy. >> So in that case it was a ghost sighting. Ci, >> right? >> Sure. >> Another accidental pun. >> Yeah. Was that accidental? >> Sure. >> Okay. >> You didn't mean that, did you? Did I say that? >> Yeah. You said that she saw a ghost. sighting. >> Oh, wow. Yeah, I guess so. Nice.

>> See how that happened? >> Yeah. >> Um I wondered, by the way, really. quickly, if these footprints, if whoever. did that did the old shining trick. >> Remember, little Danny was so smart. He. doubled back in his footprints, >> right? >> And it worked. >> Oh, it worked big time. Anyone who seen. the end of this shining can tell you. I I it sounds a lot like I've been. drinking today. I haven't at all. >> I believe you. I've seen what you're. drinking. You're drinking water. Uh and. that's not the only weird thing that. happened on um so that was in March.

>> I'm sorry. Two more weird things. happened. >> Okay. >> So, uh a set of keys go missing in. March. >> Yeah. >> And um I don't know that one to me. people lose keys. >> Yeah. But if you're suddenly like. there's is there somebody like hanging. around our property trying to get into. the tool shed now there's keys missing. >> Yeah. Yeah. I could see that. The. scratchy lock. And then the other final. weird thing uh in that month in 1922.

they found a strange newspaper on the. porch. >> Man. >> And I looked up because I didn't know. what strange newspaper meant. Um, so I. tried to find out what the deal was and. everywhere I went just said it was it. was a a newspaper that I couldn't get if. it was like was it from Russia or was it. >> from 1989? >> Yeah, that'd be super creepy. >> Yeah. >> Um, and all I found was that it was a. that I could gather was that it was a. newspaper that they did not expect to be.

there for some reason or another. Right. Right. Either they didn't subscribe to. it, wasn't in their town, or just some. just random newspaper being on their. porch was what matters. >> Yeah. I I couldn't find anything beyond. that as well. >> Yeah. >> There was one other last thing, and all. this is now starting to take place over. just the course of a couple of days. Things are getting like weirder at a. much faster pace. Uh Andreas himself, who I I've not taken to be a very. superstitious person, um started to. notice sounds coming from the attic. the.

same kind of like disembodied footfalls. that the maid had cited. >> um as a ghost sighting. >> So, he's sitting there like, "Okay, keys. are missing.". >> Somebody's tried to get in a tool shed. Those tracks are really messing with me. And now I'm hearing things. I'm hearing. people in my own house. >> And there's a Chicago Tribune from 1989. right on my front porch. Things have. gotten weird. >> All right. Should we take a break? >> Yeah. All. [Music].

right, things are weird. This is in. March 1922. The last day of March, 1922, the 31st. >> All right. Uh, a new maid comes on the.

scene named Maria. >> For sure. >> Yeah, this one's confirmed. >> Okay. >> Maria Bombgartner. >> She on her first day on the job. It it it proved to not be a very good. first day at work. >> No. >> For one really good reason. Uh, that. we'll get to in a minute. >> Oh, okay. >> We'll tease it out a little bit more. >> Okay. So she comes to work, she's. working, everything's totally normal. Uh, as far as anyone around the Hinter.

Kyek farm is concerned, like the. neighbors and all that, it was just a. totally normal day. >> Yeah. >> But in a few days, they would realize. that this day, March 31st, 1922, was the. last day anyone could say for certain. that they had seen any of the Grubers. alive. >> Correct. So, flash forward a few days, April 4. Uh, people were a little weird. They. were like, "You know what? Uh, Titilia.

was not in school, >> which is unusual.". >> Um, no one's been to church. We missed. that sweet sweet voice of Victoria up. there. >> Yeah, that was highly unusual as well. Like, Victoria did not miss church. >> Did not miss choir. >> I'm I'm assuming not only did she love. to sing, but this is like her one weekly. excuse to get out of the house. >> I could see that. you know, >> for sure. Uh, and so they said, and also. the, uh, mail had been piling up. supposedly, >> right, >> at the, uh, post office.

>> because they didn't use stamps.com, >> right? They would have if they'd had the. technology, believe me. >> That's right. That was free. >> So, the the neighbors say, "Let's go. check on them." Um, and apparently they. went. >> I bet other neighbors were like, "Really?". >> They Yeah. >> Do you like them that much? Yeah. And. finally someone was like, "Yeah, we. really should. >> Let's just let's go. >> It's a neighborly thing to do. >> We're Bavarian, so. >> exactly. >> That's what we do." So the this little.

search party goes to the house to go. check on things. And the house is just. the the whole farm is just eerily quiet. Everything's just kind of There's not a. sign of life. >> Yeah. >> There there's a dog barking. The the. Gruber dog was a a Pomeranian, actually. Yeah. And this was a time when. Pomeranians were a little bigger and. stockier and uh but barked nonetheless. just as just like any other Pomeranian. >> Oh, were they bigger back then? >> Mhm. And stockier. >> Yeah. German stock.

>> Sure. And the Pomeranian was barking its. head off. It was well known to be pretty. just kind of a jerky little watchdog, but it was good for that. >> Okay. >> But what was odd was that it was tied up. in the far in the barn. This is a house. dog that the groupers kept. That was a. little weird, but otherwise it seemed. okay. The horses and the other livestock. seemed okay and wellfed or whatever. And. then somebody looked a little further. into the barn and they made what would. be the first of a couple really, really.

gruesome discoveries. They found some of the groupers. bludgeoned to death. That's right. Andreas the papa, uh, daughter Victoria, and dear old Tutsilia, the. granddaughter, in the barn, stacked one. on top of the other, bled to death, bludgeoned to death, only in the head. area, >> largely in the head area. Like the the.

attacks were the attacks were definitely. concentrated on their head and face. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Uh, and they were covered with hay. Um, not completely covered. There are. pictures of this, by the way. Did you. look at the crime scene? >> Mhm. >> Creepy. >> Oh, yeah. You. >> see them in the barn with the hay, >> right? >> Uh, very graphic, so beware if you're. googling that right now. Uh, so they. were they were dead and had been dead. for a little while, uh, which we'll get. to. Uh they go inside and they find uh.

poor little Yseph, just horrific. two-year-old, was found dead, also. budging to death and is caught in mom's. bedroom. And then the maid on her first. day on the job was killed in her bed as. well. >> And um the Andreas's wife, Telia, she was in the barn as well. >> Oh, did I miss that? >> Yeah. Okay. So, four of them in the. barn, two in the house.

>> Yeah. >> All killed in the same manner and all. covered up in some way. >> Yeah. >> Whether it was hay or sheets or. clothing. >> Yeah. >> Um which is a weird thing to do. >> It Yeah. It's very weird. Although it. would um it would become evident why in. a little bit once they started. questioning the neighbors. >> Sure. >> So, the the day after the bodies were. found, uh Dr. Dr. Johan Arm Mueller. performed the autopsies in the barn and. he decided that what had been used as a.

murder weapon was a type of pickaxe. called a madic. >> Yeah. >> Um although the murder weapon wasn't. found for another year actually after. that. Um the the doctor concluded quite. rightly that it was a madic that had. been used. And if you've ever seen, you. know, like a pickaxe, but the other end. is like blunt and wide. >> Yeah. >> That's a madic. Yeah. And whoever killed. the the groupers and the maid did it. with that, >> right? >> Which is horrific.

>> It is. >> even worse than that though, they found. um in Titelia's hands clenched in her. fists toughs of her own hair. >> Yeah. So there was evidence that she had. survived for they think several hours. after she was attacked and watched her. other family members attacked and had. pulled out her own hair for whatever. reason. >> I say that was a good enough reason. >> Sure. >> Uh Victoria showed signs of. strangulation, but they determined that.

was not the cause of death. And by all. accounts, everyone else died pretty much. immediately upon receiving that uh. pickaxe to the head. >> Right. Um, most of the victims were in bed clothes. except for Victoria and Tertilia. They. were in their regular clothes which seem. to indicate that it probably happened in. the evening. Some people were already. getting ready for bed. Some people had. not yet. >> Right. And they also think that the the. groupers were lured one by one out to. the barn kind of Scooby-Doo fashion.

>> Yeah. Because clearly it wasn't all them. killed at once because there was no. signs of struggle, >> right? like uh yeah, maybe one person. went out and died and then the other. person was like they hadn't been back. for a while, >> right? And then they died and then Yeah. again and again. >> Horrific. >> So, there were some other um there was. weirdness beyond that, beyond these the. the just the horrificness of the crime. and the fact that the bodies were. covered up. Um this was April 4th,

right? They figured out that the bodies. had been killed or the people had been. killed on March 31st. >> That was the last time anybody had seen. them alive. But the neighbors said, "Well, wait a minute. That's really. weird because like we saw signs of life. coming from the farm all weekend." Yeah. >> There was smoke coming out of the. chimney the whole weekend. The the. livestock has been fed. The dogs clearly. eaten. Like if if they hadn't been fed. or cared for in four or five days,

they'd be showing signs of it by now. But you can tell that they've they were. they were tended to. >> Yeah. >> Like this whole time. So what is that? >> Yeah. Even the house itself, it showed. evidence that someone had eaten a meal. there recently or more recently than. four or five days ago. Uh the bed looked. like it had been slept in since that. time. >> Uh and like we mentioned earlier, that. Pomeranian was tied up. Um I saw. differing accounts on whether the dog. was somewhat injured or not. >> I did too. >> Um so let's just say the dog might have.

been hurt some but ultimately was fine, right? >> And like you know wasn't killed or. anything. >> Yeah. Yeah. It was it was not injured I. think. >> Right. So what this all signs point to. the fact that someone killed this family. and then hung out there for a few days. But even even more stirring is the idea. that the person who. killed them may have been the one who. left the footprints. >> Yeah. >> And stayed in their house waiting to. kill them. >> perhaps. >> Killed them and then stayed in the house.

for a few days after. >> Taking care of everything. >> Yeah. Just living the living the life. >> Very strange. >> Yeah. So the police started looking. around pretty quickly for suspects and. realizing um well first we got to go. with motive I think is what they said to. themselves. >> Sure. Like occasionally it happens that. there's a vagrant that comes through and. kills for money and robs. And uh the. thing they found out was that there was. a little bit of uh folding money taken.

from the bodies, but there was a lot of. valuable jewelry and gold coins and. other money in the house that was not. taken. So things weren't quite adding up. on the robbery front. >> Yeah. And especially if somebody the. person who killed them, if they were. planning on robbing them, they had four. days to look around and amuse themselves. by robbing the whole house blind. I. mean, they certainly wouldn't leave this. this stuff behind. >> No. >> Um, they also found out in the. investigation that Victoria um had.

emptied her bank account and uh had left. a donation to the church, but there was. also a substantial amount that just. wasn't accounted for. >> Yeah. >> Who knows what that was? >> Never turned up. >> Lost a time. >> So, robbery was kind of discarded as a. as a um a motive. But another one would. come to light soon. We'll talk about. that after a break. [Music].

All right. So to me it's this guy for. sure. >> Is it? >> Yeah, I think so. Uh we'll go ahead and. talk about this dude. There was a. neighboring man. A neighbor as you might.

call it. If you. >> or a neighboring man. >> if you're a normal human. >> Hello neighboring man. How are you. today? >> If you're by all means if you're a. professional broadcaster, you should say. neighboring man. >> All right. >> Uh so his name is Lauren uh Schlittenba. and he was a like I said lived nearby. He was a suitor for Victoria. And she had always said, "Uh, this guy's. who knocked me up. Yseph's this is. Yoseph's father, >> right?". >> And like you said earlier, he was like,

for a little while, I think he claimed. paternity, but then when it. >> when he found out what that meant, >> which he had to pay for that, >> he's like, "That's an English word. I. didn't understand. >> exactly. What is what is this. paternity?". So he backed off of that claim and uh. later it was emerged that um she was uh. about to sue him. >> for paternity uh when before this murder. took place. >> Right. So some people say oh well that. probably set him off. >> Yeah. Cuz he was remarried and had a kid.

that had died sadly by that point. So he. didn't want this kind of uh scandal on. his household. >> Sure. And he didn't want to make the. payments. Right. Yeah. >> Especially if he wasn't 100% sure it was. his kid. >> Right. So if you look at this. Schlittenbower guy, some really weird. stuff starts to emerge. In addition to. that motive of not wanting to pay. alimony for little Ysef, >> the way he behaved um in in the. immediate wake of the discovery of these.

murders was very bizarre. >> He was part of the original search party. that searched the house. >> Suspicious. >> first thing. Yeah. Because a lot of. criminals like to do that. They like to. go to the scene of the crime as part of. the search party. Right. >> At least on TV they do. >> Sure. Everything I learned from the. Flintstones points to this guy being. suspicious. Uh he also um immediately. started disturbing the crime scene, >> right? Like he unstacked the stacked. bodies and when he did it, apparently. there were a couple of other guys there.

and the other guys were real shaken up. by just being in the presence of these. horribly mangled bodies. Apparently. Schlintenbower was totally fine handling. them. >> Yeah. He's like, "I got the head, you. get the legs.". >> Uh, one of the men was quoted as saying. he disturbed everything there was to. disturb. >> Yeah. >> So, he had no qualms about going in. there and just having his way with that. crime scene. Uh, apparently he was super. familiar with the house itself. Um, >> which isn't necessarily a uh it it.

doesn't necessarily Yeah. if if. especially if he was, you know, dating. Victoria. >> Yeah. Well, true. Uh I would call this. part of the body of evidence, though. >> Okay. >> So, uh he apparently went into the house. from the barn, which meant he knew they. were connected. Uh he unlocked the front. door from the inside, which was like, did he have a key. >> or did he know where the key was? >> Mhm. >> Uh remember the missing keys. Uh, and. then he also apparently knew the maid's.

room handle was unusual and you had to. lift it up to enter and not press it. down. And apparently he just went right. to it and lifted it up. Um, again, maybe. he spent some time over there with. Victoria and knew these things. Yeah. Like a lot of this can be explained. away. Um, in some ways. >> they also said that the dog went nuts. when he was around. >> Yeah. Like it's him, right? Exactly. >> There's the murderer. >> Which you take take or leave that. That. seems like. local folklore to me.

>> Yeah. >> The dog called out the murderer. >> Yeah. >> You know, >> uh and he said it was because he had. blood all over his shoes from uh. disrupting the crime scene and the dog. was like barking at that. >> Which by the way, the the two other. searchers who were with him while he was. disturbing the crime scene asked him. what he was doing and he said he's. looking for his son. >> Yeah. Ysef. >> Couple of things weird about all this, right? So if he's disturbing the crime. scene to cover his tracks, >> if he was the killer and the killer. stayed behind for several days, he had.

all the time in the world to cover up. his tracks, why would he do it in the. presence of a couple of fellow. searchers? Weird. >> Yeah. >> And then secondly, if he was the killer. and he was not trying to act um. unaware, >> Yeah. Why would he be looking for his son in. the stack of bodies when he knew full. well his son was in his room in the. house? >> Misdirection. I guess this guy seemed like he was not. very good at misdirection.

>> Uh he had no alibi for the night. Apparently his family said and this is. where it gets I don't want I want to say. obvious maybe obvious. It gets really. suspicious to me. His family said, "Oh, no. He's the night they were murdered, he spent the night in the barn because. he knew that there was weirdness going. on over there and he was looking out for. burglars, so he spent the night in the. barn that night.". >> Okay. So, he spent the night in the. Gruber's barn is what is what they're. saying? >> No, no, no. Their own barn. >> Oh. Oh, okay. I gotcha. >> So, um. >> Okay.

>> He apparently though had asthma, so. people are like, "Why would he spend the. night in a barn if he has asthma, Smarty?" Right. >> But that was his alibi. uh which is. pretty weak. Uh he only lived uh 350. mters away, which I think that's like 19. miles. Just kidding. >> What is it? It's like three football. fields, right? >> Yeah. I looked up the conversions. Three. and a half. >> It's not too far. >> Yeah. >> Um. so he could have he could have been the. one coming back and forth. Like the fact.

that that there were footprints leading. one way doesn't to me signify that. someone spent six months hiding there. It could have been he he could have come. and gone as he pleased and not and not. been like away from his house too long. that anyone noticed. >> Sure. >> And maybe he walked in those same. footprints. Maybe he did do the Danny. >> Maybe, >> you know, >> he he was the one who originated the. Danny. He was Danny before Danny was. even born. >> That's true. Or maybe he was Danny.

Oh man, this this case keeps getting. weirder and weirder. >> Yeah. >> And the more we make up about it. >> That's true. >> The other thing that he said that I. thought was I mean this is just I don't. even know if I believe this. Apparently. many years later uh when the murder was. talked about in like the the bars and. the beer gardens, he would talk about it. in the first person when he speculated. about the killings. >> I don't buy that necessarily. >> I don't either. That sounds like.

something that people would make up in a. pub. >> Yeah. >> He used to say, "I killed them.". >> Right. >> No one ever cared. >> Sure. I guess. >> Yeah. >> So, that was uh he was the main living. suspect. There was another suspect who. was brought back from the dead to be. paraded around as a suspect in this. case. >> Yeah. Not literally. >> In some ways. >> Yeah. >> But no, not literally. >> Right. >> This guy's name was Carl Gabriel, and he. used to be married to Victoria. Yeah. But he died in World War I in the.

trenches. >> Mhm. >> Um, and. the reason that he was brought back as a. possible suspect is that people said, "Well, his body was never shipped back. home. We don't actually know that he. really did die. Maybe, maybe, follow me. on this." Is what they said. >> Yeah. >> Maybe he came back to reclaim his wife, found out that she'd had an incestuous. relationship with his father. He snaps. He kills everybody. >> Yeah, I don't buy this at all.

>> Well, no. They started the police, I. think, and the Munich Police Department. really. apparently went to town trying to get to. the bottom of this murder over the. years. >> Yeah. And one of the other things that. pointed to him supposedly was that uh in. World War II, another whole war later, uh supposedly some people came forward. and said, uh you know what, we met this. Russian German speakaking Russian. soldier that used to claim to be the. Henty killer and we think that that's. Carl,

>> right? I guess. Okay. >> Yeah. The the thing is the Munich police. apparently spoke to some of the the men. who were there when he died and they. they described him being died. People. witnessed his his death. >> Okay. >> Even though his body didn't make it. back, it wasn't recovered. People saw. him die. >> All right. >> So, it was verified that he was died to. I guess at least to the satisfaction of. the police. >> And that was a pretty weak link anyway. cuz supposedly the reason that he fled. for the war was to uh or was to fake his.

death. not why he fled for the war, but. he faked his death to get out of the. marriage, >> right? >> So, why would he get fake his death, get. out of the marriage, come back years. later and kill them all? >> Great, great question, Chuck. >> Yeah, >> I think the answer to that is he. wouldn't. >> Or maybe it's the perfect crime. >> Yeah, >> it's so nonsensical. >> He's listening right now laughing. >> It's the perfect crime. >> Uh what else? Uh, of course whenever. >> for parents going one way and not the. other and there talk of ghosts and I. have some tinfoil hatwearing people on.

the internet talking about paranormal, you know, that it was ghosts and these. strange noises and this mysterious. newspaper and all these footprints. >> uh is because it was some supernatural. force out to get the family. >> Well, that would account for the ghost. >> You could say that. You could say that. accounts for everything. >> Sure. That's why it's bunk. >> Yeah. Um, no, that one's not not a not a. big one. Although the Munich police very. early on decapitated, had the family.

decapitated and their skulls were sent. for forensic analysis and were handled. by a clairvoyant who apparently was not. able to come to any conclusions about. their fate or the killer. >> Yeah. And those bodies were buried. headless because those heads eventually. went missing. >> Yeah. Apparently, they kept them in the. Nermberg um I guess in their uh one of. their city government buildings and it. was leveled in World War II.

>> They think that's where the skulls were. lost. They think. >> that was mixed in with the other skulls. >> It was either that or the ghost that did. it. >> Uh so for the cops part, they. interviewed over a hundred suspects over. the years, including the clear killer to. me. Um the neighboring manuh. Lawrence Schlittenbower. >> I just think it all points to him. He. apparently years later too was like God. did the right thing with his family.

Like they were awful people and he. didn't say except for my possible son, the 2-year-old, >> right? >> He just said all of them. They deserved. it. >> Yeah. >> So it just kind of seems obvious to me. that it was him because it was. someone stayed there. Someone knew the. house. Someone took great care covering. the bodies. Yeah, >> it just doesn't seem like a random. burglary. >> No, that is a very bizarre thing to do. to stick around afterward unless you. feel like you're within your own safe. zone and if you lived 350 meters away.

>> Yeah. >> Maybe you would feel safe there. >> Safe enough that you could retreat very. quickly. >> Yeah. Or know that like I know no one. comes by here. >> Yeah. >> Uh whereas if it was a burglar, they. they probably wouldn't feel so comfy. hanging out for days on end. >> Right. So yeah, it it you're right. It. probably was him, but no one will ever. be able to prove it one way or another. >> No, they didn't have any hard evidence. >> No. And and the evidence they did take, a lot of it was lost. Um, this is 1922,

so a lot of they a lot of forensic. techniques hadn't been invented yet or. were still being developed elsewhere in. the world. >> So, in 2007, um, a police academy in. Munich got their hands on the case. Some. students did. >> the Gutenberg Police Academy, >> the first infeld Brook. >> They just threw in Brook after, you. know. >> Yeah, why not? >> Let's throw in another syllable. Um, that students from that police academy.

investigated the this crime and in. Germany like it's pretty this is an. enormously famous crime in Germany. >> Yeah, >> it's huge there. It's their Jack the. Ripper for sure. It'll never be solved. It's not possible being solved. And this. is the conclusion from those students at. the Fenfeld Brook Police Academy. They. said, "We think we know who it is. We're. not since this is unsolvable and it will. never be able to be proven. We're not. going to name the person because they. still have relatives alive." But.

>> you can guess, right? >> It's the the one living suspect that. anyone's ever really raised. >> Yeah, >> it was probably him. >> Yeah. >> They didn't say that. That was my. conclusion of their conclusions. And. then they said, "Thank you, Police. Academy, for your findings." And uh. where's the guy that makes all the funny. noises with his mouth? >> You know, Steve Gutenberg follows us on. Twitter. >> No way. >> Yeah. >> Really? >> Yeah. Steve Gutbuck. >> Really? >> Yeah. And he um is inh.

like a Shark Natoesque movie. >> I'm not sure what what the name of it. is, but he's in it with the guy who does. the voices. >> Oh, really? >> Mhm. Uh, I used to know his name. Michael something, maybe. >> Yeah, Michael something. >> Uh, I will say that, and I think I. mentioned this on the show, maybe that's. why he follows us. Steve Gutenberg was. in one of the very best episodes of one. of my favorite TV shows, Party Down. >> Mhm. >> And uh, did you ever see that show? >> No. >> Boy, it was good. >> Yeah,

>> it was really, really funny. Had the. great Adam Scott and Lizzie Kaplan and. one of my heroes, Ken Marino. >> Mhm. from the state and Martin Star, Mega Mali. It was great. >> Good, good episode, huh? >> Well, they were caterers, uh, like cater. waiters, uh, all actors and writers and. stuff in Hollywood and each episode was. its own thing, own catering event. >> and they had one where they showed up to. Steve Gutenberg's house for his birthday. party. >> and he pulled up and he was like, "Oh. man, like I forgot to cancel. I really.

had the party a couple of days ago with. my friends." He's like, "But since. you're all here, why don't we just have. a party?" And so the the waiters end up. having a party with Gutenberg and he. like does some scene acting with them. and. >> gives them great wine and he has great. art and he's just really really funny in. it. >> Yeah, I can imagine. He seems like an. awesome dude. >> He seems so awesome after watching this. episode. I was like, man, >> Gu is the best. Yeah. >> And I think they call him Goots in the. show even. >> Sure. >> Yeah. >> Anyway, >> or good book. >> Shout shout out to Party Down. Great.

great show. >> And Steve Gutenberg. >> Yeah. Uh, do you have a listener mail or. is this too spooky for one? >> He did great work on that Bible. >> Uh, yeah, I got a listener mail. Oh, >> okay. Well, if you want to know more. about Hinter Kyek, um, you can go listen. to stuff you missed in history class. I. think they did an episode that covered. it as well. Uh, you can search. mysterious universe.org and all sorts of. other places for it. And since I said. uh, hit your kyak, it's time for.

listener mail. Uh before we do listener mail, we want. to give a very special thank you to uh. Margaret and Mike in Jacksonville, Florida. >> Yeah. Thanks, guys. >> Yeah. They stepped forward and helped. Jerry out in a big way as the stuff you. should know army is uh often does. >> Sure. >> And uh it's all we're going to say other. than big big thanks to you guys for. helping out. >> for real. >> How about that? >> Yeah. >> All right. I'm going to call this. listener mail uh squirrel shooting. Hey. guys, been listening for about a year.

Love the show. Uh, I was listening to. the Polar Bears episode and I stopped. dead in my tracks when Chuck told a. story about shooting a squirrel. When I. was about 13, I too thought I was a. tough guy and wanted to hunt animals. My. grandparents lived on some land and. agreed to let my cousin and I shoot a. squirrel. Long as we agreed to skin it. and eat it. >> They're like, they'll never do it. >> Yeah, you got to love those depression. era grandparents. Like, sure, skin it. and eat it. It's all yours. I envision. them as hippies like passing a joint. like joking about.

>> how stupid their grandkids were. >> Wow. >> Depression era. Sure. I see that one, too. >> All right. So, uh we were very excited. We dressed up in camo, walked the. property cuz uh you know, you got to. dress in camo if you're hunting. squirrels. >> Sure. >> Uh eventually found a squirrel in a. tree. I should note that we were using a. pellet gun, not like a real uh bullet. gun. I took the first shot and hit the. squirrel, fell from the tree, and much. to my chagrin, he did not die. He made a. noise. I hope to never hear again. It. was that awful. >> Oh man. >> Uh I had to hand the gun to my cousin. I. just could not do it and take the other.

shot. We ended up skinning it and eating. it though. >> alive. >> No. >> He said it tastes like chicken, so why. bother? Uh like we promised that we. would do. Uh that was the last time I. considered killing an animal for sport. >> Yeah. >> Uh I've always loved animals, so I'm not. sure where this urge came from to begin. with. actually run a small online candle. company now that sells dog themed. candles. >> from dogs. >> He donates, >> we skin them alive. >> No. Uh they donate 10% of all profits to. animal shelters and rescues. And so.

Stephen, I am going to plug your company. over my wife's candle company even. >> Whoa. >> Which is Mama Bath and Body. Uh and you can go to www.noof Knox. favorite. K N O XS. Knox's favorite.com. >> And Knox was their dog. >> They named the company after. >> That's sweet. >> These are soy candles. I looked it up. They're good. >> Made from dogs. >> Uh, no. Made from soy.

>> Made from soy dogs. >> Uh, thanks again for everything you do. You're a daily listen for me. I hope to. hope you continue for years to come. That is Stephen. Stephen, >> way to go, Stephen. Thank you for that. Uh, we appreciate you letting us share. your horrible story with everybody. >> Yeah. >> Uh, if you have a horrible story you. want to share, oh man, I'm going to. regret saying that. You can tweet to us. at sysk podcast. You can join us on. facebook.com/stuffyou. should know. You can send us an email to. stuffpodcast@ousstuffworks.com.

And as always, join us at our home on. the web stuff.com. [Music]. For more on this and thousands of other. topics, visit house stuffworks.com. [Music].