SYSK’s Fall True Crime Playlist: How The Great Train Robbery Worked | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW

[Music]. Thanks for making it through our true. crime playlist. We're rounding this one. out with a good old-fashioned train. robbery for which we head across the. pond to visit our friends in the UK. Back in 1963, one of the all-time great. holdups was carried out by a huge gang. of men who relieved a British mail train. of a massive amount of money. And they. did it without guns. Most of the robbers. were eventually caught, but most of the. money has never been found. All aboard. for the last episode in our playlist on.

the great train robbery. >> Welcome to Stuff You Should Know from. how stuffworks.com. Choo Choo and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles W. Chuck. Bryant. There's Jerry. Uh, and you put. all of us together with a couple of. microphones, a crummy IKEA lamp, and uh, you well,

>> and a headful of nose juice. >> You get stuff you should know. >> That's right. Stuff you should knows. juice. >> Oh, gross. >> Uh, how's it going, buddy? Besides uh, the obvious under the weatherness of. you. >> I predict this is the last one. >> Great. >> I'm going to be back to good as new by. the next time we record. Yeah, we're. going to Vancouver and you'll get some. of that good Canadian uh. >> air. >> air in your body and the. >> pine air. >> It's healing. >> Yeah. >> properties. >> I'll get pine and flannel and. >> ocean like in my in my face, you know.

>> And moose. >> Yeah. >> Uh moose hair. >> Yeah. >> All that stuff. >> If you wad it all into a ball and sniff. it. >> Uhhuh. >> it'll it takes care of everything. >> That's right. What in the world are we. talking about? I don't know. Uh, we're. talking about trains. >> That's right. >> We're talking about a specific train, Chuck. We're talking about a specific. train at a specific moment and place in. time.

>> Yes. >> That all came together to become known. as the great train robbery. >> That's right. Did you know did did you. commission this article? >> I did not. >> Did you know about it already some or? Yeah, I mean I a little bit but um not. as like obviously as much after I. researched and I watched a couple of. documentaries and uh. >> was looking for a great awesome movie. but I don't think there really is a. great awesome movie about this yet. >> which is surprising. >> I think they did like BBC did one and I. think Sean Connory did one that was.

loosely I think other things were. loosely based but. >> like the taking of Palum 123. >> Yes, exactly. That was a good movie. >> Did you uh. >> the original of course? >> Yeah. Did you watch The Tale of Two. Thieves? Is that one of the. documentaries you watched? >> No, I I don't think that's out to the. public yet. Unless I just haven't seen. it. >> Okay. >> I think it's new this year. >> Yeah, it seems like it's 2014. >> Yeah, >> I want to see it. >> But there are no shortage of uh YouTube. BBC docs cuz they love it and I learned. a lot of new words watching them.

>> Yeah. Like um what. >> Oh, like um instead of crooked, someone. is bent. Like a bent solicitor I figured. out was a crooked solicitor. And uh a. kosh is a like a. >> like a billy club. >> and you can c somebody. >> Oh wow. >> Like the train conductor was ked. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. There were just a bunch of cool. terms that I I had to kind of figure out. what they meant in American. >> Gotcha. >> In in my English. >> Yeah. So um I had I heard the words.

great train and robbery together, but I. I didn't know anything about it. I think. there was another one, an older great. train robbery from the 1800s. >> There's one in uh 1855. Yeah. Where a. train traveling from London to Paris or. vice versa had a bunch of gold bullion. on it and it got hit. That was. legendary. >> But apparently this was the biggest. train heist since then. >> Yeah. >> More than 100 years later. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. It was a big deal. And it was sort. of Jesse James style. That's why it.

became. >> uh one of the crimes of the century. um. in England for sure. I mean it was huge. in the press and these guys that knocked. off this train became uh these kind of. weird workingclass heroes. Yeah. Well, one of them became the symbol for the. anti-establishment. >> Which one? >> Uh uh what was his name? Um the the the. one who made off for years and years. >> Oh yeah. >> Bigs. >> Yeah. He um he was on the Lamb for like.

30 years. So he was super famous. >> Yeah. and they knew where he was and. they couldn't get to him, which we'll. talk about, but he, you know, became. like the this folk hero of the. anti-establishment. He sang vocals on. lots of like punk records and stuff like. that. Yeah. >> Yeah. I saw in both documentaries they. had a bunch of uh interview like on the. street interviews from the time like. >> with regular upstanding citizens like. who side are you on? And a lot of them. were like well I feel ashamed to admit. this but I kind of think these guys. really took it to the cops on this one.

Yeah. and they thought they were. ingenious and um even though the plan as. we'll get to really was pretty. uncomplicated. >> Yeah. >> It wasn't nearly as clever as it it was. made out to be. >> Right. Well, let's talk about the plan. So, there was this idea who had who had. the idea the original idea. >> Uh I believe his last name was Fields. He was the the guy who originally had. the idea and approached several people. criminals for partnership. Uh, and they.

all turned him down except for this uh, ace safe cracker uh, by the name of. Goodie. >> Okay. So, Goodie had a friend who was. uh, his name was Bruce Reynolds and I. guess he um, he originally funded the. whole thing. >> Yeah. Well, they were in a gang uh, called the Bowler Hat Gang in uh, London. I know, right? >> I don't think we've said this. We've. made reference to like the Wild West and. train robbers and everything. This is. the 1960s. >> Yeah. >> Like the early 1960s that this is going. on. >> Yeah. And the Bowler hat gang was um.

they they dressed in bowler hats and. suits and they had done some crimes and. they were uh mainly career criminals and. they actually even uh they had the. press's attention and they actually. tried to rob a train at first but it. didn't work so well and they got away. and uh but that they had sort of a not a. trial run but they legitimately tried to. knock off another train. >> So is that when they realized that they. needed to expand their rank and file? Yeah, they realized that we don't know. trains and we don't know how to stop.

them, so we need to get some train guys. >> Right. So, the Bowler Coast gang, uh, who is I guess led by Bruce Reynolds, right? >> Yeah. Bowler hat. >> The Bowler Hat. >> Yeah. >> Gang, they got with the South Coast. gang, I think. >> Yeah, the South Coast Raiders. >> So, they and this is I mean those are. some great gang names, by the way. >> Totally great. >> But the uh the Bowler Hat gang and the. South Coast Raiders, who were led by a. dude named Buster Edwards, right? Yeah. And uh Tom Wisby, he was one of the main. guy or Whizzy, sorry. So those guys all. got together and they said, "We've got.

this great idea. We need your people to. get to to come help us. We're going to. rob a train." And there not just any. train. There was one specific train that. this gang targeted. And for good reason. It was called the Up Special. And the Up. Special had been running since the 1830s. between Glasgow, Scotland, and London. Right. >> Yeah. And uh it had run every night and. it was basically like a mail sorting. facility on wheels.

>> Yeah. >> Like it was pretty clever. They they. thought, well, we'll take all the mail. from Glasgow that's going to London and. we'll sort it along the way. So there. was 12 cars in the Glasgow special or. the UP special um. and a diesel engine. So it's a pretty. simple train. >> Yeah. >> Uh. >> and it had run for years and years. without incident. >> for for likeundred. 50und almost 150 years. >> Yeah. And and it wasn't loaded with uh. guards and cops. I mean, it was a bunch. of postmen basically, >> which is a really it's really weird then.

that the the banks would trust their. money that were moving from Glasgow to. London. >> Yeah. >> To this postal train. >> Yeah. >> That had like no security, no armed. guards, no no alarms until the early. 60s. um on the train cars themselves, but yet every night the banks would. empty their um their accounts into this. train and say, "Good luck getting to.

London.". >> Like, "Here's a bunch of huge sacks of. money. >> We're going to put it on the train and. you're going to sort it along the way.". >> Exactly. >> Uh they had an inside man who, and this. is one of those weird stuff, you should. know things. You know how there's all. these weird correlations in the news, >> right? I picked out this article two. days ago. >> and two days ago it was announced who. the identity of the inside man was. >> Yeah. The last great mystery of this. thing from the 60s. >> Yeah. >> Was just unraveled like two days ago.

>> And I didn't even know it at the time. I. found out afterward. Uh but the the code. name was Olster Man. Mhm. >> And it was always believed to be someone. on the inside of the uh of the the train. and post industry to give him. information like, you know, the train is. super loaded on this particular night. because of a bank holiday, >> right? >> And uh he was named by Gordon Goody as. Patrick McKenna. >> Yeah. In that documentary, A Tale of Two. Thieves, they hand a picture of Patrick.

McKenna to Goody and say, "Is that. Olter?" And apparently he like kind of. like gets visibly uncomfortable because. he's kept this guy's identity secret. He. was the last person alive. >> for 50 years. >> to to know who this person was. There. were two other people who knew. They. both died before Goody. Uh Patrick. McKenna died. >> uh years back. And there was just this. one man who swore he would take the. secret to his grave. And he uh he named. them. He fingered him. >> These guys were really good at keeping.

secret secrets over the years. They wore. bowler hats for goodness sake. Uh, so. McKenna's family was super surprised to. hear all this. Police never suspected. him and um they basically think that. this guy felt bad afterward and never. even spent the money and gave it to the. Catholic Church like slowly over the. years. >> Oh yeah. >> His cut. >> is what the family is saying. >> But um. >> that sounds like an olster kind of thing. to do. >> Yeah. You know Olie, >> right? He's a good guy. Well, before he. had his change of heart, uh he was the.

inside man that helped the gang figure. this out. >> Yeah. He actually recommended they. change the date to get a bigger uh take. and it was and it worked. >> Can you can you explain this to me? So, a bank holiday and it's the same thing. here in the US. It's like a like a day. the banks are closed. >> Yeah. >> They have official bank holidays. There. was a banking act in the UK from the. 19th century that designated certain. days as bank holidays. Um, what I don't. understand is why is there so much more.

money the day after a bank holiday? It's. like everybody waited to do their. banking business that they would have. done on Monday on Tuesday. Like there's. so many more people or so many more. transactions that didn't get to be done. on that Monday that were carried out on. the Tuesday that that's why there's so. much more money. >> I don't know. Maybe it's that the uh. because of the holiday, they didn't uh. do their deposits and and like make the. money leave the bank like they normally.

would. So, it was compounded, I guess. So, there was like double the amount of. money as usual because they didn't do. their drop on the holiday or something. >> Yeah, but they didn't conduct any. business on the holiday, so there. wouldn't have been more money to. accumulate than usual. You know what I'm. saying? Well, if it came after a weekend. though, maybe it was like all of that. weekend's deposits had gathered up. >> Okay. >> I don't know. That's a good question. >> Okay. The point is is that. >> there's a lot more money than usual. >> A lot more. Usually, this um this train. car, the UP special, carried about.

£300,000. um between Glasgow and London each each. night. >> Yeah. >> On this particular night, the night of. August 8th, 1963, uh which was Thursday, early we hours of. a Thursday. Yeah. >> Um, it was carrying something like 2.6. million pounds, >> which today in dollars would be worth. about 50 million. >> I think it's I looked that up and it was. like double that. >> 100 million. >> Well, yeah, because you're going from.

1963 to 2013 and from pounds to dollars. >> Yeah, >> I might be off, but I I got 69 million. pounds today or $111 million US. >> Let's go with that. That's way better. Either way, 2.6 million pounds was a ton. of money for a heist back then. >> Yeah. >> It was like really really a lot of. dough. Yeah. >> Even splitting it among 15 guys. >> Yeah. And they didn't even necessarily. split it evenly. There were the the core.

gang who were carrying this thing out. and they all got even splits, but there. were also accompllices in addition to. Olsterman. There was Mr. 1, Mr. Two, and. Mr. Three. >> Yeah. And those are they're named so. because they were never brought to. justice. There were three that just got. away with it. Even though they knew who. they were supposedly, they didn't have. evidence to go pick them up. So, like. the identities of the three guys that. got away, they they think they knew who. they were the whole time. >> Really? I mean, one of them's named John. Weider. He got away. >> Uh I'm not sure. Was he one of the one,

two, or three? >> He was. Yeah, he was the one who got the. safe house for the gang. >> Yeah. Well, he worked with Fields to get. the safe house. Uh well, let's back up. here. >> Okay. >> We're so excited we're getting ahead of. ourselves. So he mentioned that they. recruited another gang that knew how to. work with trains, knew how to stop. trains. And um what they did was they. brought this guy on board who had a this. elderly man who was a train driver. His. name was Peter. And Peter's job once. they stopped the train was to get it to. where the the drop point, the exchange.

point was in case, you know, because the. train stops at the red light, >> right? which they very awkwardly wired. the red light to turn on and they just. covered the green light with some. gloves, but it worked. They stopped the. train and still needed to get it down. the track to the exchange point. And. this old man gets on board and he's. like, "I don't know how to undo this new. handbrake, >> right?" So, he was useless. And so, the. guy Biggs, who became this criminal. legend for evading the law for so many. years, apparently his only job was to.

find somebody who could drive the train. >> And he failed at that. and he screwed it. up. >> Yeah. >> So, the guy who was supposed to drive. the train got thrown off the train and. they got the original train engineer, the one whose job it was to actually. drive the train under normal. circumstances and made him drive another. mile and a half to this bridge. Yeah. And that was Jack Mills. And uh this is. a very important detail. He was, like. you said, the conductor. And two guys. jumped on the train at the very front. there and uh cauted him, which is.

smacked him on the head a bunch with. this billy club. >> I thought it was a crowbar. >> Well, it was an iron k which is English. for crowbar, I guess. >> And um this was a big point because um. for a lot of reasons. one in that it was. why the the justice ended up coming down. so harshly on them because they were. apparently way more violent than they. needed to be with this guy. >> Yeah. >> And the public perception of these guys. as workingass heroes doesn't jive with.

the violence cuz they they weren't you. know the English still aren't really. into violence as a whole. >> No. Especially if you're the bowler hat. gang. >> Yeah. Like you you dressed nicely and. you conducted your business your. criminal business like gentlemen, >> right? >> Uh and you didn't need to beat this old. guy up. he was elderly, nearing. retirement, and his family says the. robbers still say today that like he. wasn't beaten up nearly as bad as they. say. And the family was like, "No, he. never fully recovered." Yeah. >> And died of cancer. But um. >> about seven years later, I think he died.

of leukemia. >> Yeah. But they they say he he had. headaches for the rest of his life and. he was just not the same man. >> Yeah. You can't do that to somebody. >> You can't do that to someone. >> And and like you said, that changed. absolutely everything. Um, Goody uh the. the guy who was really the brains behind. this whole operation, he uh he wrote a. book a few years back before he died and. he named he said it was either Buster. Edwards or a guy named Jame Hussie who. was the one who cauted the poor. conductor. >> Yeah. And supposedly Hussie who who was.

brought in as a heavy as some muscle. supposedly at his deathbed he said that. it was him. >> who cushed the guy. >> Yeah. And uh but there are other people. that say including Jack Mills's son who. said, "No, my father told me who it was. and it wasn't him. This guy is just. doing that that robber thing where you. still cover for your people." So like on. his deathbed, he was still trying to. cover for the real guy. >> And I don't know if we'll ever know for. real if it was him or the other dude. >> Wow. Lying on your deathbed. >> Yeah. >> That's not okay.

>> No, that never happens. Yeah. That's. where you're supposed to be the most. truthful. >> Sure. Like Yeah. They I mean they take. deathbed confessions like as like. completely legitimate in courts. >> Yeah. That's where you're supposed to. look at your wife and say, "I never. really loved you.". >> Wow. That's terrible. Chuck, >> could you imagine? >> I think that was in a movie once. You. thought it was going to be some tender. moment and he was like, "I never really. loved you.". >> I think I know what you're talking. about. The War of the Roses where like. they're both laying there dying and.

Michael Douglas goes to like put his arm. around Kathleen Turner. It's one of my favorite. It's a great. movie. >> Um, >> no, I I don't think anybody's done that. Oh, >> okay. So, Roger Cordrey is the guy's. name who came up with uh the idea to fix. these train signals. Uh, and he was an. associate of Buster Edwards. And if you. had ever seen the movie Buster with Phil. Collins Oh, is that who it's about? >> That's who it's about. >> Oh, yeah. this sort of like a working. class uh criminal. Like criminals back.

then were kind of revered in certain. circles in England. It's weird. >> Two hearts. beaten in just one. >> Was that from that movie? >> Mhm. >> Okay. >> Great song. >> All right. So, after this break, uh we. are going to talk a little bit more. about how it went down and what happened. right after. So, Chuck, yeah, >> we've got the Bowler Hat Gang and the. South Coast Raiders coming together for.

one huge heist that's worth about $100. million in today's money. >> Yeah. Or or half that. >> They're hitting the UP special. Just. this crotchety old 12car train. moving along through the night from. Scotland to London. Right. >> Yeah. >> And so the the gang messes with the. lights. >> Yeah. They put a glove around the green. light and manage to turn on the red. light. So, the train comes to the stop. >> They all board the train. >> Yeah. >> They hit the conductor over the head.

Huge mistake. >> Yeah. >> Uh they bring on the guy who's supposed. to drive the train, find out he can't. drive the train, throw him off, >> stand the conductor back up, probably. give him a handkerchief for his head. Yeah. >> And say, "We need you to drive this. another mile and a half to the drop. point, which is called a Britiggo. Bridge.". >> Yeah. That was it. Like a bridge. overpass. >> Uh-huh. And uh the guy does that and. they start offloading the loot. >> Yeah. They got 120 of the 128 sacks of.

cash money onto um they had this uh big. lorry and a couple of Land Rovers. >> Yeah. Could Could it be Could this be. any more stylish? >> Yeah. >> They had Land Rovers as getaway cars. >> Yeah. It's pretty cool. Um you see why. people bought into all this stuff and. thought it was cool because I think it's. cool right now. >> Yeah. Um, and so what they did, they had. pre-arranged a hideout and this was. Fields's job as well was he bought this. farm and farmhouse, >> leather slade farm, right?

>> Yeah. To and it was sort of ingenious. but ended up screwing them in the end. because the idea was within 30 minutes. of this robbery they have effectively. disappeared off the face of the earth. Well, they stopped the train and got it. to the bridge and offloaded uh more than. a ton of money. >> Yeah. Two tons, I think. >> Two and a half tons of money. Yeah. In. 15 minutes. >> Yeah. And they were back in their. hideout in another 15. So, by the time. this thing was reported, they were gone.

in in this farmhouse like with the. windows shut and the shades drawn. >> Okay. But that also kind of screwed them. because before they left the train, they. said, "All right, no one moves for 30. minutes." And so the cops hear this and. they went, "Oh, well that they're. probably within a 30 mile radius then.". And so they put this out on the news. We. know that they're within a 30 mile. radius and we're going to start. canvasing the area. They get word of. this. They're within 28 miles and they. go, "Well crap, they're going to find.

us." Mhm. >> And they also said it was sort of a city. boy move to think you can hide out in. the country like that. Um and this one. guy in the documentary was like, "Nah, out in the country you get noticed, right? >> If you're 15 guys in a farmhouse, >> that was their undoing." A neighbor. said, "There's a lot more people at this. old rambling old farm and they're all. wearing bowler hats for some reason or. at least half of them are.". >> Yeah. >> Um. there's something fishy going on. So, when the uh when the word got out that.

this train had been hit, this guy came. forward and said, "You guys should go. check this farm out.". >> Yeah. >> Well, the guys weren't only at this farm. for the half hour after uh the heist. They'd been there for like eight days, >> waiting for the day to come, getting. ready, um eating things that required. ketchup, >> playing Monopoly. >> Yeah. >> Uh. >> played a lot of Monopoly with their real. money. >> Yes, they did. >> I guess they thought that was just a fun. thing to do, you know. >> Hilarious. Yeah. Um, and they did go to. the trouble of like wiping down a lot of.

the stuff, but they left a lot of stuff. behind, including the Monopoly game, including the ketchup bottle and a lot. of other stuff that had prints on it. Well, yes, cuz Fields was supposed to. get a guy to go torch the place. >> Yeah, that's what I thought. I was like, why wouldn't you just burn the place. down? >> That was the plan. And apparently the. guy never did it. And um they ended up. getting out of there a few days early. They left 5 days into it because they. obviously heard the news that they were. canvasing the area. Uh-huh. >> So, they left quicker than they wanted. to and um like you said, left a lot of.

stuff behind cuz they thought it was. going to be torched. >> Their plan was to lay low there for a. few days. >> Yeah. To keep laying low, >> but um when they found out they were. basically making their way to them. little by little, right, >> they got the heck out of dodge quicker. >> Well, that probably kept them from. getting caught sooner. >> Yeah. But in so the public is being. treated to this incredibly daring train. heist. These people got away without a. trace for at least the first week. Finally within a week um this Leather.

Slade Farms has been identified as the. place where these guys were hiding out. >> Yeah. They found the trucks. >> Uh and they got at least one person. within 8 days of the of the heist. >> Yeah. >> And all of a sudden people start. falling. There's 15 people. Um, and on. the case is called the Flying Squad, who. are like the best of the best that. Scotland Yard has to offer to combat. these some of the best of the best. criminals that that Great Britain has.

had to offer at the time. >> Yeah. Uh, Chief Superintendent Detective. Tommy Butler was the head of the Flying. Squad. >> And like you said, this was so. sensational because it was the top. robbers and the top cop. It was I guess. it sort of like the Elliot Ness of the. day, >> right? >> Going after Al Capone. And it was just a. huge story. Um, and like you said, they. started getting nicked one by one and. um, it came out later that there was an. informant by the name of Mickey Kho,

supposedly Scotland Yard, said this guy. Mickey Kho was telling us all about it. because it was well known within the. criminal underground like what was going. on. >> Mhm. >> And started naming names. Although the. robbers to this day uh, still say, "Nah, it wasn't Mickey Kho. We know that guy. He didn't even know us that well. He. wasn't giving up names. >> Yeah. >> But um I don't know. Scotland Yard says. he was. So I don't see why they'd make. that up. >> I could see them making it up to protect. somebody else, >> especially if they didn't like Mickey. Kho in the way he looked.

>> That's true. But they, you're right, they started to go down one by one. Uh. there was a pretty short list of people. >> who they thought it was. It wasn't like. some great mystery. >> Plus, once they started peeling away one. and catching one here or there, others. started falling. Others did. Did did. anyone who was caught name names did you. get that impression? >> No, they were um most of them were. pretty tight-lipped. Uh in fact, one. guy, Charlie Wilson, he was the treasure. of the gang. He uh they called him the. silent man because he literally said.

nothing. >> He just didn't speak at all during the. trial. >> Right. He went on to become a US. congressman who waged a proxy war. against Russia in Afghanistan in the. 70s. >> I don't think so. I think that's a. different Charlie. >> Different Charlie. Okay. >> Tom Hanks. Yeah. Right. Um, so. consider this from the public's point of. view. There's a staring robbery, right? Words getting out. Within a week, you. got your first guy caught, but there's. still tons more people on Lamb, which. gave the press tons of fodder. They had. so much to write about. Um, there was a.

a a capture of one of the guys that in. involved rooftops. like the guy was. running and jumping from roof to roof. with the police in chase, you know, and. the and finally by August all these guys. are rounded up. 12 of the 15, I think, were rounded up. >> Yeah. >> Uh and they started to stand trial um in. January. They were caught. They're being. quiet. The public is just totally in. awe. And finally, this trial starts. And.

right out of the gate, the judge found. out that uh Bigs had a criminal past. So. he he shouldn't be tried with the rest. of him because it could taint the jury. uh against all these other guys. unfairly. So Biggs got spun off to his. own trial. And these guys uh stood. trial. The other four or the other 11, >> no 10 of them stood trial. One of them. managed to have a lawyer. He was there. because his prints were on the catch no. Monopoly game. >> Yeah. There were prints on ketchup and.

Monopoly and pots and pans and some of. the guys wore gloves the entire time and. they were the smart ones. Yeah. Uh but. Biggs was the one. Remember Big B's one. job was to bring the train engineer and. uh he screwed that up. >> Yeah. >> His prints were on the ketchup bottle. So, he screwed that up, too. >> But um there was another guy whose. prints were on the Monopoly game and his. lawyers managed to show that that those. could have gotten there long before the. crime. >> Yeah. >> And that it didn't ne necessarily mean. he had anything to do with it. He got.

set. He was acquitted during this trial. >> Yeah. He was the only lucky one. Everybody else had the book thrown at. them. >> Yeah. Um I mean there was a lot of them. were saying that they cooked up a bunch. of evidence because they knew it was. them, but they just didn't have the. evidence. So um the big Lori truck they. had painted hastily painted yellow. And. uh the goodie uh one of the main, you. know, two guys was supposedly some of. his evidence was that they found yellow. paint on his shoe. And he was like, "I.

didn't paint in those shoes." And it was. funny because years later he's like, "Oh, I did it." And yeah, I painted that. truck yellow, but I wasn't wearing those. shoes. They planted that evidence on me. >> Is that right? >> Yeah. And and apparently there was uh. false confessions. There was another. great uh British word for that. Uh I. can't remember what they called it, but. >> chaaba. Chobering. They um false confessions. were big at the time in England. And. then there was a lot of reports from. these robbers that they were using false.

confessions and planning evidence. And. again, even though they did it, they. were like, "Yeah, but if you don't have. evidence, >> you can't convict us.". >> All right. >> So, I don't think we'll ever know if. they cooked up some of this evidence or. not. >> Well, there was one guy named uh Bowl, William B, who. >> poor guy. >> He apparently had nothing to do with it. >> Well, >> he received money in payment from a debt. from I think that Goodie owed him. No, it was it was Bigs. >> Oh, Bigs. Bigs again. >> It was he was a friend of Bigs and when.

he got out helped him kind of lay low, but he had nothing to do with the. robbery. And um. >> he got 14 years. >> No, I'm sorry. It was Cordry. It wasn't. Bigs. >> Okay. Cordri. >> Um I know. I feel bad for Bigs. We're. just dragging his name through the mud. >> Yeah, >> but it was Rob Cordry. >> It wasn't Rob Cordry, but um. >> it was his dad. It was his. great-grandfather, Cordre, and he was. Bull's friend. He helped him lay low and. he wanted uh Cordre was actually the. first one to get to get pinched because.

he and Bull helped him rent a garage and. they paid in like the same bank note. bills for like 3 months in advance in. cash. And the lady said, "This is a. little suspicious." Turned him in. Bull. got wrapped up. And because all these. guys were saying we're innocent, they. couldn't come out and say, "Well, he. really is innocent." Right. >> So they kind of had to take this guilt. with them to prison. >> So B got 14 years. >> for doing nothing really. >> Yeah. And for just basically knowing the.

wrong guys and hanging out with the. wrong guys. He died in prison. >> I know. >> Um. >> I I'm not laughing because it's just. tragic. >> It is tragic. So his family's like. trying to mount a campaign now um to get. aostumous pardon at least. >> Yeah. But he uh he and the guy who got. hit over the head, the conductor, are. really the two big victims in all of. this. >> Yeah. And uh one of them, there was only. one guy that um turned in his cut of the. money and actually pleaded guilty uh out.

of the rest. >> That was Cordre, I think. >> Yeah, that was Cordri. >> So even he he says, "Yes, I did it. Here's my 80 grand." the guy who he. associated with still got 14 years. >> and died in jail. >> Yeah, that's so sad. Um, so you'll. notice that we were talking about 12 of. the 15. Bigs, by the way, after he stood. trial separately, was also found guilty. and got things like uh these guys were. getting like 20 years, 30-year.

sentences, enormous sentences for this. this train robbery. >> Yeah. generally 30, which was double the. harshest penalties for robbery that. they've ever seen. >> Right. Which is really strange because. the the judge in the case um. he had actually reduced another robber. in a completely separate uh robbery um. where a man had been shot and killed. during the commission of the robbery. >> Oh wow. Someone who was involved in that.

robbery had his sentence reduced from 15. years to 10 years because that judge. thought it was excessive. That same. judge was handing out 30-year sentences. to these guys where no one got killed. >> Yeah, that was Justice Edmund Davies. I. think because it was. >> such a high-profile case, he felt he. could make his name. >> had to be, >> you know. So, um, he was making his name. though against public sentiment because. a lot of people were, uh, very much saw. these guys as folk heroes. None more. though than Bigs. And the reason why.

Bigs was a folk hero was because he. evaded capture so long. And we'll talk. about that right after this. [Music]. >> All right. So, uh, some really. interesting things happened after they. were sentenced. Um, Charlie Wilson. escaped prison. >> Yeah. >> Uh, which was pretty cool. A couple of. them escaped prison. Um, in the way that. it was very cute how you could escape.

prison back then, like, let's put a. ladder by the fence and climb up and. jump over into a truck and speed away. >> It turns out that the Benny Hill show. was basically a docu drama. at the time. Uh, another one escaped. when he uh I think he had some guys. infiltrate the prison and help him. escape. >> Uh, yeah. In a furniture truck. >> Yeah, >> that was Bigs, I think. >> Yeah, it was a lot easier to escape. prison back then. And some of these were. maximum security for what it's worth, you know. >> Yeah. Yeah. One of them was Britain's uh. version of Alcatraz. They say Wsworth.

prison. And um that bigs escape from. there. Um when he escaped and went on. the lamb uh he went to Australia and. then eventually moved on to Brazil. But. first he stopped off at um one of the. worst human beings to ever walk the. planet's office. The very same cosmetic. surgeon. >> Oh yeah. >> Who redid the faces of Nazis fleeing. Europe at the end of World War II. >> Really? Yes. >> That's who his plastic surgeon was. >> Yes. Interesting. Yeah. He uh he So Bigs.

got his face redone a little bit. went. to Australia, made it to Brazil, and um. he had a family in Australia, which he. left behind there, uh and then went on. to Brazil, got a girlfriend, and um she. was pregnant with their child when the. the authorities, the British authorities. found him in Brazil, and he said, "Oh, turns out under Brazilian law, you can't. extradite the parent of a Brazilian.

citizen.". >> Oh, crazy. So for many, many years, Ronald Biggs lived openly as this felon. escape in Brazil. Uh, and there are. things that he couldn't do in Brazil. Apparently, he couldn't go to bars. >> He couldn't be out after 10 p.m. He. couldn't associate with um, you know, anybody with a criminal record or. anything like that, but he he wasn't. imprisoned by the Brazil Brazilian. authorities, and he couldn't be. extradited to Great Britain, which drove. Great Britain crazy.

>> Oh, I'm sure. And there was this one. very famous detective who was on this. case who made his own name. His name was. Jack Slipper. >> Yeah. I get the feeling that he and uh. and Bigs, it was sort of like the lay. miser rob like Jean Valjon, >> you know, they had this lifelong. pursuit. >> Smoking and the Bandit. >> Sure. >> Yeah. It's a very old story. >> Yeah, it is. >> Uh and Bigs and Jack Slipper were were. playing it out in real life. So much so. that Jack Slipper in 1974.

showed up on Big's doorstep. I guess. just to rattle him, just to say, "I I. know where you are and I can get to. you." And Big said, "Yeah, but you. really can't do anything to me.". >> Yeah. And uh some of the other guys. evaded police for a little while for a. number of years, but I think by 1969, they were all caught except for the. three that they couldn't finger with uh. good evidence. >> Yeah. But um even the the main. mastermind was able to evade the police. for four or five years. I think he went. down to Mexico.

>> Buster, he turned himself in after. living on the lamb for three years. >> Yeah. And Bruce Reynolds, uh I think he. was on the lamb for a while, too. >> Yeah. He got caught in Canada, I think. Um one of the guys, uh well, I guess it. was Bruce Reynolds when he changed his. name when he went on the lamb, he. changed his family's last name to FTH. >> Oh, really? And he had a wife and son. >> Colin. >> He changed his son Nick's name to Colin. FTH. >> Shut up. Is that the guy?

>> No. No. >> Oh, totally coincidental. >> Okay. I thought you were going to say. >> Wouldn't that be amazing if Colin FTH. was the son of Bruce Reynolds and it was. all an alias that he turned into a stage. name? >> That would be awesome, actually. Um, so. one of the the fun things that the the. prime minister tried to do because he. was so upset about this was. >> uh he tried to at one point or he didn't. try to he had the idea to reissue every. bank note in England. >> so their money would no longer be good.

>> So from what I understand. >> and they were like yeah you can't do. that. >> I from what I understand most of the. money was never recovered. >> Yeah. 400 grand out of the 2.6 million. was recovered. >> Right. So there there was a lot of that. out there still. Oh yeah. >> But apparently England went to a. different type of decimal currency. by like 1970. I think. And that means that that money. that was out there automatically became. worthless. >> Well, apparently they laundered it.

pretty quickly afterward. So I don't. know how much that affected them. >> Okay. >> Like through bookies and stuff like. that, they made it new money. M. However, all of the robbers ended up. saying like even if they got their cut, like it was a curse and they didn't live. this rich lifestyle in Mexico and Spain, like a bunch of them moved to these. places, >> right? >> And serve shorter sentences because I. think uh parole uh was brought in after. they were sentenced. It wasn't even like. a thing in England until then,

>> right? >> But uh retroactively they were able to. get out in like, you know, 10 or 14. years. And then, you know, supposedly. had some of this money still hidden. away, but most of them ended up like one. guy committed suicide, one guy died in a. a medical trial. >> Jeez. >> Uh that he signed up for. Um one guy was. murdered. Uh. >> yeah. By a hitman on a bike in Spain. >> Yeah. So like most of them have these. awful sort of ending stories and they. didn't live it out like Sexy Beast like.

uh Ray Winstone on the Spanish Riviera. Yeah. >> Uh I think some of that might have been. influenced by some of that movie might. have been influenced by. >> a lot of Great Britain's love of. gangsters was influenced by these guys. >> Yeah, they were definitely looked up to. and um it's pretty interesting. >> I've got a little more on Bigs, the. ballot of Bigs, >> Bigsy. >> So he I mean he really is like a folk. hero in in against anti- or with. anti-establishment types in the UK. um.

in part because he was you know living. openly in the face of you know British. authority and it irked the British. enough that a group of ex-British. military in 1981 kidnapped him from. Brazil and put him on a boat and got as. far as Barbados. where they had boat trouble. >> Wow. and they were picked up by the. Barbadan authorities. And it turns out. Barbados doesn't have an extradition.

treaty with the UK either. So he got. sent back to Brazil. And supposedly. these ex-military were saying that they. planned on I guess getting some sort of. reward from the British crown for. bringing this guy back, >> right? >> But it's also been supposed that that. was actually a plausible deniability. cover that it was actually. >> like the British really tried to have. this guy kidnapped. That wouldn't. surprise me. >> He Yeah, he finally turned himself in. and died in 2009, but he turned himself. in in like 2000. He started having like.

um failing health. So, he's like, I. guess I'll go live out my life in jail. for some reason. >> And I think he went to like an old man's. hospital jail. >> back in the UK. >> Uh and not all of them met, you know, gross untimely demises. You know, several of them just kind of retired or. went back to their work as florists. and. uh. >> yeah, Cordry. >> sort of retired with her family in. Sussex or London or uh sort of around. England and um but apparently none of. them like got rich off this or they're. not talking if they did.

>> Yeah. Still, >> well, good good. Yeah, goods wrote a. book. So, there you go. There you have. it. Uh if you want to know more about. the great train robbery, a great place. to start is the search bar at how. stuffworks.com. And since I said search. bar, it's time for listener mail. Uh, I'm going to call this horse milk. In our animal domestication podcast, we. talked about horse milk. And I I can't. remember what I said. I probably said it. was gross or something. >> Oh, I think we said like we want to hear.

from people who've had it. And I figured. we'd hear from a couple people, but I'm. blown away by how many people have had a. brush with horse milk. >> A lot of people liked it, too. This is. not one of them. Uh, hey guys, just. listened to uh the podcast on animal. domestication. I wanted to tell you. about the revoling drink called Kumis. from Kazakhstan. That's K U M I S. >> Milakumis. >> Milakumis. Uh it is similar to the more. familiar product kefir. Uh which you we. talked about that in uh something else, right? >> Yeah. That's like or something. >> That's like Balkkey's version of sour.

milk. It's Bulgarian, I think. >> Yeah. He said it's made from horse milk. Uh because horse milk has more natural. sugars than cow sheep or goat milk. Kumis ends up being mildly alcoholic. after fermentation. >> Crazy. Uh, imagine the sourness of raw. yogurt mixed with the bite of a shot of. vodka. >> Whoa. >> And round it all out with the disgusting. tang of horse milk and you've got kumis. >> Well, I don't understand that last part. Like I I don't have anything to equate. that with horse milk. Vodka check. Sour. like fermented yogurt.

>> But you don't know that disgusting tang. >> No. And I want to know now. >> You know, in Toronto when I was there, my friend Chris uh from Let's Drink. About It ate horsemeat. >> like in front of you? >> No. No, I was supposed to go out to. dinner with him, but I was sick. And. after we recorded, they went out and the. next day he's like, "Dude, they ate. horse meat yesterday." I went, >> "Did they go to IKEA?". >> No, they went to some one of those. adventurous restaurants. And I was like, "Josh would have been all over that, but. not me. >> No thank you.". >> Yeah. >> You'd eat horse meat, right? You try it. out. >> Probably. >> But not horse milk.

>> Only if the horse died of old age. >> Uh, so Greg says, "I drank it.". >> Well, that's what they said. They. supposedly all of them. They're called. uh what do you call them? Uh, >> barbarians, >> something horses like uh. >> old dead horses. >> No, basically there were horses that. died of natural causes. They called them. like. >> senior senior horses. >> No, like uh. >> golden age horses. >> No, there's a word. >> There's a lot of words. I can say them. all. >> So, Greg drank it in Kazakhstan and he. said it was served in a bowl uh what he.

would describe as a bowl. You get. cocktail peanuts. Uh like he would get. cocktail peanuts in. Instead of a bowl. of peanuts, it's a bowl of this. disgusting drink. >> Wow. >> I've lived in the caucuses for 4 years. now. I've had my share of questionable. foods. The only thing I found more. disagreeable than a saucer of kumis was. a pickled rooster comb. >> Oh my gosh. >> He said it was all skin and cartilage. It felt like I was eating an ear. >> Wow, man. That is from Greg. That's called. using every part of the animal. >> Yeah, Greg, you just blew my mind.

>> Same here, man. I wish I could think of. the horses. Uh, not like freedom horses, but it was. something like freedom horses. There's a. word. The horses that want you to eat. them. >> Yeah. >> Donor horses. No. Well, we'll find out. and tell everybody next time. Okay. >> Yeah. The the essential is they're. horses that died of natural causes. They. weren't killed for their meat. >> I gota. >> Yeah. >> Uh, if you want to let us know about an. experience you had that is fascinating. or amazing, uh, you can tweet it to us.

at syskodcast. You can join us on facebook.com/stuffyou. should know. You can send us an email to. stuffodcast@houseuffworks.com. And you can hang out with us at our home. on the web, the internet clubhouse known. as stuff you should know.com. For more on this and thousands of other. topics, visit housestuffworks.com. [Music].