SYSK's 12 Days of Christmas… Toys: How the Nintendo Entertainment System Changed Gaming Forever

[bell]. [music]. Hey everybody, Chuck here again. continuing on with our 12 days of. Christmas toys playlist. Uh right now. I'm going to serve up a [music]. delicious serving of nostalgia for. anybody that's well probably Gen Xers. [music] would be my guess, but uh the. episode is how the Nintendo. Entertainment System changed gaming. [music] forever because boy oh boy did. it. Please enjoy. Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a.

production of iHeart Radio. [music]. >> Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm. Josh and there's Chuck and we are 10. years old right now and this is stuff. you should know. >> Can I go ahead and admit something? >> Oh, yes. I'm nervous though. But yes, go. ahead. Well, I was a little bit old for. Nintendo, the NES system.

>> Uh, and that's not to say that kids my. age weren't playing it, but like it. really boomed in popularity right when I. was sort of like 15, 16. >> and starting to sort of drive and get. out in the world, >> right? >> Uh, and I also did not own one. So, like. I never played Mario Kart and Zelda and. sort of these classic games. Uh. eventually in college, I remember it had. to have been a Super Nintendo in like. >> Sure. >> '92.

>> Yeah. >> Uh my roommate had one, so that's where. I first started playing uh Super Mario. World. >> Mhm. >> And I played stuff like Tetris and Mario. on the Game Boy. >> that my brother had. But I was I've. never owned a Nintendo. >> Well, I can tell you that Nintendo came. out and I was 10 11 years old, not. driving yet. And it was and I owned one, too. [laughter]. >> So, it was definitely in my wheelhouse. >> Yeah. I mean, later in college, my um my.

good friend Clay got a the first. PlayStation and that's where we started. going with Street Fighter and Mortal. Kombat and. >> then I got on the PlayStation train. But. I It's just funny reading through this, I was like, I played some of these games. here and there, but I was not Nintendo. kid. >> Yeah, I have to say I jumped from. Nintendo. Oh, I never had a Super. Nintendo or Sega Genesis, but I have. friends who had those. Um, went off into. the N64 world with the Golden Eye. Yeah, you played that, right? >> My friend John had one of those and I. played a lot of that.

>> That was so great. And then I I got the. first PlayStation 2, the first. PlayStation. I mean, not to be. confusing. >> Um, and at that point, I realized that I. was thinking about how to play games. while I was not playing games, like when. I was just walking around living life. And I made a decision, a very fateful. decision that I've never regretted, that. I was going to give up video games. because [laughter] I was too addicted to. them. Oh, wow. And this is this was. college and I it was I never looked. back. >> Wow. So, you were into them, huh?

>> I was big time into them. Yeah. It was. It was like this is if if it's reaching. out from beyond the time I'm playing it, then yes, I was a little too into them. If you ask me, I was never a gamer or. anything like that. I just really. enjoyed playing games. Maybe a little. too much. In your favor, uh, in your. defense, rather, I would say that I. think everyone who's ever played like. Tetris has Tetris dreams and sees the. world. >> as like Tetris boards occasionally if. you're into it. >> Yeah. Uh, and you know, my deal is, you. know, I've said before is I I was heavy.

Atari kid, big- time arcade kid, >> and then played this kind of stuff with. friends here and there, and then now. every year I'll usually, or every couple. years, I'll get two or three PlayStation. games, play them obsessively for a. couple of months, and then it sits for. nine months to a year. >> Yeah, I'm with you. I think that's. healthy. That's a healthy way to play. video games, you know. >> Yeah, I I still enjoy it, though. It's a. lot of fun. Uh but yeah, my my buddy. Doug Dillard growing up had one rich. friend and he had a Intellivision.

and so I had kind of some fun today. watching the old cuz I remember thinking. the Intellivision football was really. great and when I looked at it today I. mean it's very very basic but it was. pretty good still like you're calling. plays and uh all the sounds came. flooding back. It was a big rush of. nostalgia. >> Yeah. Um it's somehow two-bit graphics I. think. >> Yeah. And this, to be clear, what we're. going to talk about today is the the. original NES. This could have been a. two-parter if we would have gone down.

the road of the 64. Like, we're not even. talking about the music today at all. >> No. No. Huh. >> Uh, so there was plenty more material. here, but this is just a bit of an. homage for the Christmas season. >> Yeah. Because I mean, it's the holidays, so one of the greatest things you can do. during the holidays is reminisce. nostalgically about holidays past. And I. definitely associate the NES or other I. didn't realize this until I started. researching it. Some people call it the. NES. Did you know that? >> No. >> Really?

>> Yeah. Some actual like legit gamers call. it NES. Other people call it NES. And. apparently there's some big. disagreement. I've always called it NES. >> Yeah. >> But I always associate the NES with a. pretty significant portion of my life. But it like it always is tied to. Christmas as well. >> All right. Well, you're going to wax. nostalgic a bit more, even though I I. did play a little bit of these here and. there. >> Okay. So, um, one of the things like the. the Nintendo Entertainment System has a. an amazingly great story to it.

>> Like, it's it's just so fun to tell. because Nintendo came along at a time. when uh the video game market in North. America had so totally bottomed out. >> that people looked at video games. Like. imagine, think about how big Atari was. People looked at it, it crashed so hard. that they it was a fad that was never. coming back. Like it had already lived. its life. >> Yeah. >> And Nintendo walked into this burning um. city. >> that was the video game industry and.

said, >> "Let's give this another shot." And they. actually managed to succeed. >> Yeah. I mean, Atari was dead as disco. Uh we talked a little bit about it. before, especially in the ET episode. >> Mhm. >> And I did a full Atari guest two-parter. with uh Strickland. >> Yeah. >> Back in the day on uh on tech stuff. >> I'll bet that was a fun one. >> It was a lot of fun. But yeah, uh ET. came along and and certainly didn't kill. Atari, but it helped usher in the end of.

Atari. And it wasn't just this one game. It was uh sort of a flash in the pan for. a few years. And parents were also. weighing in and saying, M. >> you know um I don't like my kid playing. this much garbage on the television. Like I I I don't think it's good for. their brains. I don't think it was a. part of the satanic panic necessarily. It was pre-satanic panic that it was. more along the lines of you're rotting. your brain. >> Right. So um I I was that the thing that.

triggered it or was it the terrible. terrible games that really triggered the. what's called the North American video. game crash of 1983? It was the games, wasn't it? >> Well, I mean, I think it was a two-part. thing. Like, kids got a little less. interested because the games started to. suck, quite frankly. >> Uh, and then I think you also had. parents beating the drum of. >> Okay. >> Hey, and and Atari wasn't really coming. out with, you know, the new systems. weren't that great. The the 2600 and the. 5200 came along. >> I mean, rather the 5200 followed up and.

it was just okay. So, they needed. something needed to happen and that. thing that needed to happen was. Nintendo. >> Yeah. And also at the same time, one of. the other things that had ushered helped. usher out video games was um the. personal computer starting to come into. the world. >> Absolutely. >> And with the personal computer, you. could like do your taxes, your kid could. like practice math and they play games. on floppy disc, too. So. >> Exactly. Yes. I played Wolf. Oh, I'm so.

glad you said that cuz I was looking at. Castlevania on floppy disc and I'm like, it came out in 1990. Like, I was. definitely playing it before that. It. was Wolfenstein. Thank you, man. >> You just made a a really great neural. pathway [laughter] circuit like connect. completely in my brain. >> That feels good. >> But I saw it described by a guy named. Chris Kohler who wrote an article on. this in Wired back in 2010. He said that. video games were dead, dead, dead. Personal computers were the future. and.

anything that just played games and. couldn't do your taxes was hopelessly. backward. >> Yeah, >> that was kind of like the the premise. So, just to get across, I don't want to. like beat this drum too hard, but to get. across how huge the crash was, the video. game crash of North America. Um, in. 1982, Atari rad in $2 billion, Atari. alone. In 1983, they lost $536. million. >> That's a swift fall. >> Yes. But that's how quickly that it.

happened. And so people basically if if. it crashes that hard, people hate your. product. And I think that's kind of. where we were at in 1983. >> Yeah. But as you pointed out, this was. we need to keep pointing out this was. the North American crash. >> Yeah, good point. >> It did not happen in Japan. Um in 1983, they were just like, I don't know what. you're talking about cuz we have arcades. [clears throat] over here that are. flourishing. Uh, we invented Donkey Kong. and Donkey Kong Jr. still a lot of fun.

to play. Those games are still fun to. play. >> Yeah, for sure. >> And in 1980, this was a few years before. the United States crash. >> They said, "Hey, you know what? There's. this gaming thing going on, uh, home. gaming going on in America, and maybe we. should get together a team over here to. just sort of poke around because we're. Nintendo. We make a lot of toys and we. have for a long time and we're big in. the arcade world, but we don't have a. really a console system going, right? >> And that led to uh a big I think. actually there was a console called the.

Epoch Cassette Vision in 1981. And it it. was sort of the biggest thing in Japan. at the time, but. >> Well, I think it was kind of the only. thing in Japan at the time, too. >> Well, which makes it the biggest. I. guess you could also say it was the. smallest. >> That's true. >> Uh but it was not a Nintendo product, right? No, it absolutely wasn't. In fact, it. was it was Nintendo came along as a. rival to to this um cassette vision, Epoch Cassette Vision. >> Um so, the head of Nintendo, Hiroshi. Yamuchi, um he apparently was this.

driving force. He had some really great. people working for him in Japan and in. North America, but he seems to have been. this person who would be like, um, do. this enormous undertaking and do it in. an hour kind of thing. He kind of seems. to have had a sense that there was a. really narrow window that was open right. now that could close at any time and. that they needed to get this stuff done, but they also needed to do it really. well and really right basically out of.

the gate. And they actually managed to. because in 1983 after just a couple. years of research and development they. released what's called the Famcom or the. Family Computer which was essentially. the direct predecessor of the Nintendo. Entertainment System that they released. a couple years later in North America. >> Yeah. I mean it's not very often that a. head of a company or a boss comes along. and says, "I want to do something better. and cheaper than it what is currently. out there." And it actually happened.

Uh, and listeners at home, if you can. look this stuff up as you go safely, please do because just seeing these all. these various units we're going to talk. about is really a lot of fun. >> Yeah, they teeter on the edge of being. creepy. They're like at that age. They're not quite wicker wheelchair. creepy, but they're getting there. Give. them another decade or so. You know what. I mean? >> Yeah, I think they're cool looking. I. mean, this is the kind of thing that. would look cool sitting on a shelf as a. collector these days. >> I think there's a lot of people who have. that, actually. >> Oh, I'm sure. Um, so look up the Epoch.

Cassette Vision cuz that's kind of fun. Uh, but the Famicom was this red and. white box. Uh, it toploaded. It had two. wired controllers and it had very. importantly on the control pad. It had a. it had the D-pad. It had the directional. pad on on the left with the up and down, left and right arrows. >> and then an A and B button, which no one. knew at the time, but that would kind of. revolutionize the gaming world as, you. know, they got a little fancier over the. years, but it's still sort of that's.

still the bones of what a controller is. >> Absolutely. like it was I I can never. remember the full quote, but somebody. said it was like they invented the. airplane uh and got it right fully out. of the gate, like tray tables and. everything essentially. >> It was like that's what they did with. that that controller design. Uh and now. you think about it, you look at it like. the Nintendo brick and especially the um. Famcom controllers, they look so. old-fashioned. >> Yeah. But if you can put yourself in the.

mindset of somebody in Japan in 1983, >> if you looked around at the other stuff. available, it was it was just from the. future. And that was one of the things. that Nintendo did really really well. during this period. They figured out. what everyone thought the future was, what it contained, what it looked like, and they gave it to everybody. It was a. really like exuberant time. It was like. the future had been brought to the. present and it was all thanks to.

Nintendo basically. >> So it retailed for about 150 bucks back. then which is what close to 500 today? >> Yeah, 400 something like that. >> All right. So I mean kind of on par with. you know the range of even modern. gaming. I mean what's the new. PlayStation like? Five maybe. >> I don't know. I'm not sure. I think it's. somewhere in there. Five or six hundred. bucks. Do you remember that PlayStation. ad that was like for PlayStation 7? It. was just people running around the real. world. It was all like VR and augmented. reality.

>> I don't remember that. >> It was pretty cool because it came out. in like the '9s and you're like, "Oh, and we're pretty close to that now. already, you know.". >> Oh, for sure. Uh they they bundled the. Donkey Kong and Donkey Kong Jr. games. and the Popeye games, which uh were. basically about the same quality as you. would get at the arcade. >> Yeah, it was huge. >> It was a huge deal. I mean, especially. if you grew up playing Atari. Uh, I. loved Atari, but Atari was Atari and it. had a lot of limits. And this was, you. know, you went to the arcade so you. could play games better than Atari. Now.

you could do it at home, >> right? Yeah. So, that was an enormous. progression. But it wasn't just like the. graphics, the quality of the the look of. it. It was also the game play, too. Like, it was way more fun than most of. the games you were going to play on an. Atari. It was just funner to play some. of these um Famcom games. Um and it it. took off like a rocket. Uh it knocked. the Epoch um cassette vision right off. of the top place. >> into the history books basically. >> essentially. Yeah. They sold half a.

million units uh in two months after its. release. Uh I think by the end of 1984. they'd sold 2 and a half million units. So in about a year or so and they were. like okay I think we're definitely on to. something. And they had enough hubris, enough I guess at least self asssurance. that they set their sights on North. America again, which was a tattered, burning ruin as far as video games were. concerned. >> It's a great spot for a break. >> I think so, too.

All right. I think where we left off uh. the United States was a version of. Corormack McCarthy's The Road. >> Yeah. >> And The Walking Dead. And Nintendo came.

along and said, "We are going to save. you and bring you into the future." And. it was a tough sell at first in the US. because like you said the video game uh. craze, for lack of a better word, had. kind of come and gone. This was 1985. Parents were still not, you know, they. were like, "I'm glad that went away,". basically. And now we have these PCs in. our homes and my kid can play Oregon. Trail or whatever. And they seem happy. enough with that. >> And uh Nintendo knew all this was going. on. They knew it was going to be a.

tougher cell. They knew so they knew. they had to come up with something. awesome. And their first crack at that. was something called the the AVS, the. advanced video system. And they said, "We'll give it a keyboard, so it looks. like a computer. >> It'll have a little cassette disc drive. It'll be able to do some stuff. It'll. But it, you know, they bundled it with. all kinds of fun stuff. It had a. joystick. It had a keyboard, like a. musical keyboard, >> and it had this uh wireless, which is. We'll explain how all this works in a. little bit. It's pretty cool. But it had.

a little ray gun, a little zapper. >> Yeah. And you really said a mouthful. with the word wireless, man. This was. 1985 and this advanced video system came. out with wireless controllers. >> Like it was that's really impressive and. it was really slick looking too. Like. really futuristic looking, but also yes, they put enough computer um peripherals. in it that it did it didn't look like a. video game system, right? Yeah. >> So they they took it to CES, the the.

January um version. I think even back. then was in Vegas. Um, but it's Sorry, it's the Consumer Electronics Show, right? >> Yeah. I never been to that. Have you? >> No. Huh. Strickland has great stories. from it, though. >> Yeah. He goes every year, I think. >> I think so. But at CES in January of. 1985, they're like, "Here you go, everybody. Here's the future, the. advanced video system." And no one cared. at all about it. They didn't even get. people coming over to play, to mess. around. No one could have cared less.

about that thing. >> Yeah. Which is a little bit surprising. looking back. Uh because the games were. good and they knew that I I guess they. were just a little gunshy. Uh but it. seems like Atari made so much money. >> I'm surprised there wasn't someone that. was like, "Hey, maybe round two uh is. going to be a real thing." But it, you. know, it didn't work. They didn't get. any response. >> No. And I think that really goes to just. kind of underline just how bad a. reputation video games had because you.

know Dave points out that um the the. consoles that have been going for like. $1, $150. the year before these retailers were. stuck with them and they were selling. them for like 40 bucks which is how much. the the games used to go for. Now the. games were like $4. So the the retailers. have been so badly burned. I think they. all got caught with these hot potatoes. when the crash happened that they were. like never again. And that's what. Nintendo was working against, which is. as Dave Dave again Dave helped us with. this as he points out you were either a.

very foolish company to try this or a. very smart one because again it had a. terrible reputation, but that also meant. that there was no competition in this. enormous market right now. >> Yeah, absolutely. Uh so they knew they. had to have almost like a trick to get. their foot in the door. Mhm. >> And they came up with one and um Dave. found this uh is gaming historian. Is it. a I know it had a YouTube channel, but. is it also just a full website? >> I don't know. All I know is that the the.

YouTube channel where they make really. high quality YouTube videos that are. really interesting. >> It's good stuff. But someone at Gaming. Historian came up with this very apt. metaphor about a Trojan horse. And. that's kind of what they were looking. for was a way to get these things in the. home by almost tricking parents into. thinking it wasn't a gaming system and. it was more just sort of like a toy cuz. kids still got and bought or uh you know. received toys and stuff. It's not like. they shut down the toy industry. It was. just home video games. So what they.

invented was the Rob, the RO, the. robotic operating buddy, which is a very. sweet name. Yeah, >> you should go look at Rob online and. especially YouTube videos of Rob in. action. >> and just be prepared for the speed of. Rob, >> right? But the thing is Rob was a robot. He moved and he functioned. He. interacted with the games that they came. up with. >> very slowly, [laughter]. >> right? Very slowly. But this was a time.

where like robots were kind of hard to. come by. They were not. all of a sudden there's like. a robot and it was one of the greatest. [clears throat] strokes of of marketing. genius that any company's ever come up. with as we'll see. >> Yeah. I mean what they ended up with was. a robot that. >> didn't uh I mean it functioned as it. should but like I said it's super super. slow. they only ended up having a couple. of games where you could use the robot.

>> and it was just sort of a sneaky way to. get these uh consoles in the door and. because it was all part of the same. system and and that's how it worked. They they managed to get the little. Trojan horse robot through the door. >> and uh thanks to a guy named uh Lance. Bar uh he he helped design a lot of this. stuff. He designed the Zapper ray gun, which we'll talk a little bit more about. in a sec, >> but he designed it as a front loading. system, which made sort of people think. of VCRs. It was also a very um they call.

a zero force solution, so there wasn't a. lot of wear on the on the uh cartridges, and it, you know, just worked really. well. >> Plus, it it looked, like you said, it. looked like a VCR. Those were wildly. popular at the time. And um I don't. think we said Chuck, so that January CES. was um just a complete like catastrophe. for Nintendo. They'd spent all this time. coming up with the advanced um video. system and it it went nowhere. So again,

the head of the company, Hiroshi. Yamuchi, told a couple of people like, "Hey, redesign this in an hour." And. they did. And Lance Bar was the guy who. did it and he knocked it out of the park. because the NES as it debuted later on. in in North America was essentially what. he came up with in that one hour that he. was given to do it. Um, so they had they. did all this and had it done in time for. the July 1985 CES, like 6 months after.

that huge colossal failure. They went. back to the drawing board and came back. in six months with the Nintendo. Entertainment System fully fleshed out, including Robot and Zapper Gun. >> Well, notably Robot because that's what. all anyone cared about at first. >> Yeah, for sure. >> Like at CES, the the NES system was sort. of to the side and everyone was just. trying to get their hands on Rob. >> and play Gyroite, right? [laughter] Which I'm telling you, you got to just spend 5 minutes watching.

Rob play this game because it shows a. split screen of the the TV screen of. what's happening on the game, which. really isn't much, and then Rob just. very slowly picking up these spindle. tops and making them spin. >> Yeah. And was it the um the um game. historian video that that really kind of. went into detail about how Rob played. and setting up his accessories and. everything? >> I watched a bunch of them. Yeah. I'm not. sure. >> Okay. I think it was that one. If not, it was another one I saw where they they.

really kind of showed like the the idea. of Rob was pretty ingenious. Like he he. was player two, but you were actually. playing together. Like you in Gyroite, you were kind of running through this. maze. And there were like pillars that. you couldn't get past. You had to get. Rob to do it for you. And again, he. would so slowly. Yeah. Get get an eye. exam and your glasses made in an hour or. two. Um and then Yeah. he would have. completed that and you could advance to. the next column or whatever. It was a.

great idea. It was a cool concept, but. it just the execution was terrible. But. he essentially just pushed the buttons. on the player two controller. So if you. got tired and frustrated of waiting for. Rob, you you could just push the buttons. on the player two controller yourself. and play Gyroite that way. But the point. was. >> they they don't seem in retrospect to. have really thought Rob was going to. take off. Um, in fact, the games that. that they he came with in North America. were the Japanese versions. They hadn't. even bothered to make the North American.

version of these. They just put like. kind of this like um like fix on it that. made it compatible with the North. American system. But when you loaded up. Gyroite, the the um the intro screen. showed the Japanese name for it. [laughter]. >> at the very beginning of it. >> I feel like I saw other games that had. Japanese writing and stuff. Yeah, >> I don't know. Maybe it's a memory. Um, it may have just been like bootup. screens or something. >> So, they decide uh it was such a, you.

know, eye grabber at CES that they. decided, "All right, let's go to New. York City and let's test it out there in. one city, roll it out, see what. happens." The New York retailer said, "Hey, buddy, I got, look at this. I got. a warehouse full of Ataris over here. that I can't even give away. Like, I. don't know about a new gaming system.". And they said, "All right, here's what. we'll do. We will ship them to your. store from Japan for free. We will you. can just sell what you sell and pay us.

for those. Whatever you don't sell, you. can return to us. We'll take them back. We'll send over a team in your store to. set up these big marketing interactive. marketing displays and we'll we'll take. on all of the risk and all you guys got. to do is try and sell some of these.". And they went, "Yeah, all right. [laughter]. That was a great Joe Peshy, by the way. I meant to say. >> Oh, Joe Peshi. >> So, yeah, they did this in 500 stores. And normally when you when you did like. kind of a a soft test release of.

something like this, you might choose. like Topeka, Kansas or somewhere that no. one cares about, right? [laughter] But. they went full bore and hit New York. City. And I think I've seen it, you. know, mentioned a few times that like it. was based on that that Frank Sinatra. song, the idea that you if you made it. in New York, you can make it anywhere. And they they did make it in New York. Um Oh, I can't remember. I I want to. rock. >> Oh, okay. >> Um. >> I Want to Rock. I want to hear that. version.

>> Man, I've got that MP3. It's so good. It. still holds up. >> of I Want to Rock. >> Yeah, the Twisted Sister song. >> You got that MP3. [laughter]. >> or MP4? I don't know what the kids these. days. >> Uh I bought it at Toys R Us. >> Awesome. Very cool. So, um, they they. didn't knock it out of the park. necessarily. They sold about half the. units that they had produced for this. test market in New York. >> Yeah. >> Um, I think like 50,000, but it was. enough for Yamuchi to say, "Let's give.

this a try. Let's let's roll out to the. rest of the country." Another bold move. because normally after your first test. um uh like run, your first test market, you do like four or five more. And he. said, "No, let's skip that. let's just. go right to the rest of the country. And. he did. >> Yeah. And that was the the Christmas. season, too. So, uh it I get the feeling. that they were um they weren't super. disappointed, but they weren't super. pumped either. It it felt like it was.

right in that area. And it's funny. looking back historically, like it was. right in that zone where it was just. enough to keep it going. Right. >> And you wonder kind of the the sliding. doors pathways that the gaming world. would have taken had it sold 30,000. units, you know? >> Yeah, for sure. I I saw somebody say. like that Nintendo had Nintendo not been. successful. Like the games as we know. them today would definitely not exist. >> We'd still be playing checkers like a. bunch of dopes. >> Yeah. And going outside.

>> Who needs it? >> So that was 1985 holiday season. um n by. 1986 they uh they hit on something else. So like one of the things that they did. was take a poll of that people in the. test market who had bought the Nintendo. and I think like the vast majority of. them said that um Rob the robot was the. reason they had bought the whole system. to get that robot. That's how that's how. well that marketing ploy worked. So um.

Rob had kind of served his purpose. though. Everyone knew he was slow. So, they weren't releasing more games for. them. So, they came up with um. originally the the the way you bought. Nintendo, it was the Nintendo. Entertainment System console, two. controllers, the Zapper Gun. >> Nice. >> Rob the robot, and all of Rob the. robot's accessories, and then two games, one of which was Gyroite, that game you. play with Rob, right? >> Yeah. >> Okay. That's a lot of stuff. And of. course, it was pretty expensive at the. time. So, for the national roll out,

they kept the deluxe set, but they also. came up with something called the NES. control deck, which was just the. console, two um controllers, and very, very importantly, Super Mario Brothers. And that was 99 bucks, and they sold. those things as fast as they could make. them for the holidays that year. >> Yeah, you really can't overstate the. importance of Super Mario Brothers. Uh. that was a game that came along in uh. with actually with the Famicom in 1985.

>> and it was just it was the most advanced. looking game and playing game that any. kid had ever seen. Uh it was uh as Dave. points out it was the first game that. you could play and and have fun playing. for forever. Like you could go on and on. finding the hidden worlds, finding the. Easter eggs, >> dropping down pipes into other sections. that you and other levels that you never. even knew existed. Uh banging away.

hidden bricks. Like there were so many. discoveries and places to go in Super. Mario Brothers. They created um. sort of a new way of gaming which was. like, "Hey, how would you like to be. little Josh Clark? How? Put Put your. cigarette down. [laughter]. How would you like to play a video game, the same one for the next seven hours? >> Hot dog. [laughter]. >> That's what I would have said. >> Hot dog. [laughter].

>> It was a whole new deal though cuz even. when I played Atari, like we played for. hours at a time, but I don't know, you. played a game for 30 45 minutes and. you'd pop in another one. That's why you. had like 40 games in your in your. controller box. >> because none of them you could play for. hours and hours and hours in a row and. not eventually be like, "Okay, this is. getting a little bit old." Even as a. kid. >> Yeah. So, the gameplay was just light. years ahead of anything. Uh I I I've. almost every single uh source that I've.

seen on the internet that talks about. how Super Mario Brothers changed things. uses the word light years ahead of. everything else. Cuz it really was. Um, there was a guy named Shagaru Miiamoto. He designed the game very famously. He's. he obviously became a legend overnight. because of it. >> They were also smart enough to do some. really savvy marketing moves which uh. kind of rolled out in a few different. ways. They well they had a lot of. advertising money that was sort of a. given. They had about 20 million bucks. >> uh to spend off the bat which is a ton.

of money for advertising uh now and. then. But they created a call center. uh. they trained these uh players and these. gamers basically to master these games. and sit on the phone and you could call. a number if you got stuck and talk to a. human being that could like walk you. through a level that you couldn't get. through. >> Yeah. >> Uh they had Nintendo Power magazine. which is a very big deal. And they. created the first, you know, gaming. championships where uh and these are.

still just huge, you know, where kids. and adults alike, you know, now adults. from all over the world come together to. battle each other out. And the very. first ones were created by Nintendo uh. with the the grand championships at. Universal Studios Hollywood. >> Yeah, I hadn't thought about that, but. yeah, you can make the case that they. created the esports phenomena. They laid. the groundwork for it to come at least, right? >> I would think so. Yeah, that's pretty. cool. So, um there was a poll of. Nintendo players after the national roll. out um that found that 95% of teens pled.

said that they recommended the NES to. their friends. And I think 83% of adults. and 85% of little kids. That is. eyepopping. And that means that they. were successful. They used Rob to get. their feet in the door. And they knew. that if they just got their console in. the hands of Americans, they would. change their minds forever about video. games. And that's exactly what happened. >> And they avoided the Atari mistake, which was uh they did their best to try.

and keep bad games uh from being able to. play it on their system. And that's what. happened with Atari. The games got so. bad. Uh, I mean there hundreds and. hundreds. We talked about this in the ET. uh game episode. Like ET gets unfairly. piled upon because it was just such a. big release, >> but there were far worse games released. uh on the Atari system. Hundreds and. hundreds of really, really bad games. that just no one even remembers. And. Nintendo saw this play out in America. and knew that they couldn't let that.

happen to them. So they designed a a. proprietary system where you could only. play officially licensed NES games. They. created a lock chip on their circuit. board. And only Nintendo officially. licensed games or manufactured games had. the lock key or the key chip uh to. unlock it. And that really kept quality. control, you know, under their wing. They said even to third parties, they. said you can only make uh two of these. games a year. Like don't come at us with.

200 games. Like make something really. really good that we'll approve of and we. will put the Nintendo seal of quality on. the front of the cover. >> Yeah. And then like they were really. nitpicky too. Like as you were. developing the game, you needed to send. Nintendo like um explanations of the. game play, uh the characters, the. design, all that stuff. And Nintendo. would make notes and send it back and. make you change stuff. Um, and that. that's what you could do if you had 80%. of the market uh as far as video games.

were because people had to come to you. and they it was really smart for them to. just kind of pro protect their. intellectual property like that because. it was so good. But um they were. basically so um [clears throat]. heavyhanded about it. Yeah. That they. were actually investigated by the FTC at. one point for their licensing practices. >> Yeah. I mean, anytime you control that. much of a market, the FTC is going to. sniff around. >> Yeah. >> Uh, and there were other companies out. there trying to bootleled games. Uh,

still there was one called Ten Gen that. had a few licensed games, but they. wanted more money. And so, they went to. the patent office and said, "Hey, can we. take a look at that patent for these. lock and key chips?" They said, "Sure, here it is." And so they uh I I guess. illegally because they ended up getting. sued and Nintendo won. So I I mean I. don't know how all that patent law. works. I wasn't I'm surprised that you. could just go get a patent and rip it. off.

>> Uh well I you you're supposed to improve. upon it. They seem to have just ripped. it off, but I think it's one of those. things that it was like gray a legal. gray area that wouldn't be decided. anywhere outside of court. >> Oh, okay. Makes sense. >> You know what I mean? Yeah. So they just. ten ten rolled the dice and they lost. essentially. >> Okay. >> Ten about is that it? >> I think so. I've seen I've actually. heard it both ways. I got. >> I just wanted to fill it out by saying. it the other way. So there's this um. YouTuber named Nintendrew and he has a.

video called 10 weird NES facts and he. talks about that that um keychip thing. where people were trying to get around. it. And he said other companies um. didn't even bother to come up with a. chip. They just used a low voltage spike. to to scramble the brains of the the. lock chip um so that it wouldn't work. anymore and now the game could be. played. And as an example, he used a um. he used a game from the developer Tree. and it was for Bible adventures. [laughter].

>> So if you put Bible No, I've never even. heard of it. But if you put Bible. Adventures in your NES, it would. scramble its brain so that you could. play Bible Adventures. I would think. some of these might endanger the game. console itself. >> You'd think so. Yeah, it's pretty pretty. reckless. >> Yeah. Jesus killed my Nintendo, [laughter]. >> right? >> Uh so Rob uh did not work out. Poor Rob. um did its job and got its foot the. little robotic foot in the door, >> but kids uh were like, "This is not so.

fun playing these games, these two games. with Rob isn't where it's at. It's. really Super Mario and all these other. games." Um, and so Rob, you know, Dave. kind of funnily points out, Rob, uh, inevitably ended up kind of in the. closet of every kid that probably owned. one, >> and it just became about that NES. system. U, but that's not to say all. those peripheries uh, were not a. success, because that Zapper uh, and the. game Duck Hunt were both big deals that. kids love to play.

>> Yeah. And um, I did not realize this, but the the laser gun, the what was it. called? the zapper. >> Mhm. >> It was not It didn't shoot anything at. your TV because if you stop and think. about it, your TV is not set up to. accept that kind of thing or [laughter]. your TV screen certainly isn't. So, what. happened instead is it was a light. detector. So, when you pulled the. trigger on the zapper, your screen at in. just a nancond, maybe a little slower. than that, but still faster than you. could register it, the screen went black.

and whatever ducks were on the screen. turned into white squares. And if you. had the zapper pointing at the duck when. you took the shot, the zapper would. register that white flash of light that. was a duck that square and it would. register it as a hit. That's how the. zapper worked, which is pretty. ingenious. >> Very ingenious. Uh, and the kid thinks. it's a laser gun because they don't know. how that stuff works. >> Exactly. There is no kid who picked up. the zapper and didn't go pew pew. Uh,

all right. All right, I guess here at. minute 40 we'll take our second break. >> Oh man. >> And we'll come back and talk a little. bit about what happened next. Okay, Chuck. So, um, there were a couple.

of other peripherals that came along. that were as meh as Rob was, maybe even. a little me. One was the power pad. The. other was the power glove. And again, these were things that were really cool. and helped advance the the NES system. and made a bunch of money for everybody, but when you played with them, they. weren't very good. >> Yeah. The power pad is uh was a pad. It. was it had another use from another. company. Uh, it was called a fun and. fitness pad from Bandai and Nintendo.

bought them out and basically repackaged. it and said, "Hey, now you can do like. track and field games by running on this. dumb thing." And that technology is. still very popular. Like if you go to. arcades, those dance games. >> Mhm. >> Uh, and they're still like, uh, I played. one not too long ago with my daughter, Dave and Busters, where you do like. track and field stuff. >> is still around. But at home, a kid. isn't going to do like they're inside. kids cuz they don't want to be outside. running around. >> Yeah. >> They want to be on the couch. And so the.

power pad didn't go so well. It ended up. in the closet with uh Rob. Almost called. him Rod. Uh uh and then that glove. though, the power glove, it was really. cool and it looks cool today. Like if I. imagine people buy these just for. Halloween costumes. >> because it looks kind of neat. But Punch. Out, which is a great boxing game, uh, Power Glove was kind of the only game. where you really maximized what you. could get out of the glove, >> right? I also saw there's a a scene in.

the um Fred Savage movie, The Wizard, where this kid pulls out a Power Glove. and plays Rad Racer. So, he's using it. like he's he's steering, but it just. they didn't really develop any game. specifically for the Power Glove. So, I. think. >> it was a little bit because um they Dave. likens it to Wii. Eventually Nintendo. came out with the Wii system which used. >> essentially the same kind of technology. Uh but yeah, it was ahead of its time. So, it ended up in the closet with the. power pad and Rob.

>> Oh, man. Closet's getting full. >> Exactly. But as as kind of clunky as. those were, that that controller we. talked about, that was revolutionary. >> Yeah. There's a writer, a game pro named. Taik Kim who came up with this uh cool. analogy that Dave found which is that uh. what Nintendo had landed on with that. controller was what uh Kim referenced as. the language of console gaming and that. really kind of locks it down as to what. they did. Like you know we were talking.

earlier about that first NES brick. You. know it was all kind of there like they. grew and morphed but that directional. pad was revolutionary. Yeah. >> Uh those buttons were revolutionary and. they landed on the idea of a kid holding. something in their two hands and mainly. using their thumbs to operate it. Uh. thumbs and pointer fingers, I guess, now, but mainly thumbs. >> Yeah, because with the Atari joystick, you would use your thumb for the the red. button, but you used your whole hand to.

to move the joystick. This was just. totally different. Um and it was really. simple. It was really sleek. Everything. was laid out just right and it was it. was just so perfectly made out of the. gate that like you're saying it it just. laid the groundwork for all of the. console controllers to come. Even today. still it's based on those. >> Yeah, they had um it didn't start there. They had it initially on this uh. handheld game called a game and watch. which if you look this it looks like.

it's sort of the predecessor to the game. boy. >> Uh and it's called a game and watch. because it had a a clock on it. So, it. told told the time and it was a game. So, they call it the gaming watch, but. that's where the D-pad came from. And uh. Donkey Kong is a game that really took. uh great advantage of of the D-pad. And. um it was it just seemed like the. natural and now they make the little. mini joysticks which are which are great.

but uh some I think the uh I think the. Xbox Do they have joysticks or do they. still use that D-pad? >> I I don't know remember Addicted so I. gave it up. [laughter]. >> So you never played an Xbox? >> No. >> I've seen ads for it but I can't recall. the controller. Yeah, I played a lot of. uh my same friend John Pendell, who you. know, John, >> he's backstage in New York. John, he had. the N64. He was my Golden Eye partner, but he also got an Xbox and we were both.

addicted to uh the Tony Hawk skating. game for about a year. >> Oh, yeah. That was a good game. And that. was a game that carried with you in real. life because if you played enough Tony. Hawk, >> you would just someone who'd never. skateboarded, you would be walking. around in the world and going like, I. could totally grind that gutter on top. of that that roof, [laughter]. >> right? >> It's pretty funny. So, the um the. another thing that those controllers did. was um give us the cheat code, which I. guess you could conceivably do on like.

an Atari joystick, but they really came. along thanks to the uh the NES because. there was a developer who was trying to. turn the arcade game Gradius into a. Nintendo game and it was really hard. So, he created this cheat code to make. it uh easier to kind of game test for. him so he wouldn't have to start over. every time. and is extraordinarily. famous. Up, up, down, down, left, right, left, right, ba, start. And that's. called the Konami code because the guy. worked for Konami and it worked for.

Gradius, but he became much more famous. with the game Contra. >> I never I guess you played a lot of. Contra probably, huh? >> For sure. >> Now, what was Contra? I don't even know. >> It was a really kind of groundbreaking. shooter game where um I saw it described. well as like a cross between Rambo and. Aliens. Ah, okay. >> Um, so you I if I remember correctly, you're in some sort of weird other world. and you and your buddy are kind of like. buff and wear like um headbands. [laughter] and you have like spiky. blonde hair. >> Oh yeah.

>> Um but and you just shoot all sorts of. stuff and it's really neat because you. get different kinds of weapons that. shoot in different ways and at now. you're like this is clunky and old but. at the time it was there was just again. nothing like it on the market. >> Like a lot of the games that we. understand today originated on the NES. Yeah, for sure. I I think I've seen. Contra. That sounds familiar. >> But if you did the up, up, down, down, left, right, left, right, ba start with. Contra, if you did it at the intro. screen [clears throat]. um right before the game started, you.

would get 30 extra lives, which you. could use to great [laughter] effect. >> Oh, that's great. uh they ended up it's a staggering. number still considering that they were. uh kept a sort of a heavy hand on the. amount of games being produced but. >> uh they ended up with close to 700 games. for the original NES. >> and I think in. 95 is when they launched the 16bit No, no, no. Uh Super Nintendo was 91. >> Mhm. >> And that was the one that I guess my.

roommate had where I ended up playing a. lot of Super Mario, >> right? Uh, and then Super Mario 2 and 3. of course came along. Uh, we already. mentioned Punch Out. That was I remember. playing Punch Out. That was a great. game. Uh, Mike Tyson was the biggest. boxer in the world at the time. Uh, but. there is a little fun fact that Dave dug. up and I think I remember this, but the. arcade Punchout uh, had a boxer, the. Russian boxer's name was Vodka. Drunkinski. [laughter]. >> So great.

>> And he got changed to Soda Papinsky very. famously. Anyone who played Punch Out is. very familiar with Soda Papinsky. And. one of the one of the big revelations of. my childhood was that the great tiger. who wore a turban with a a gem on it, >> his gem flashed before he came at you to. throw a punch. >> Oh, and when I realized that you could. predict it. Yeah. Uh, it just changed my. life. >> That's funny. It changed your life. And. >> it did. >> Hey, you might never become a podcaster. You never know. >> It's possible that whole glass doors or.

the sliding doors thing. glass doors. >> Yeah, the glass ceiling. Yeah, different. thing. >> So, um, what else, Chuck? There's some. other ones, too, that we have to shout. out. >> Well, I'll shout out Tetris because. that's a game I played a lot on the Game. Boy. >> Mhm. >> Uh, talk about addictive. Tet Tetris was. super addictive. I think I literally owe. Tetris to my car packing skills today. >> Yeah. >> Uh, when we go on road trips and stuff, Emily always still jokes like, "Chuck is. going to Tetris this thing." Uh, it was. great. Tetris is a very simple game. Uh.

if you've never played it, it's uh. >> oh, I don't even know if it's worth. describing, but it's um it's a game. where you stack different shaped blocks, right? >> Uh and when you got solid lines, a line. would disappear. And the whole goal of. this game is to to keep those lines low. And as it built higher and higher and. higher, there was less room for those. blocks to drop and it would go seemingly. go faster and faster. >> Oh man, it like it could panic. Yeah. [laughter]. Especially as they just kept building up. and they're dropping and it's like it.

drops right onto another block. You're. up that high. It's just like, you know, it's just it is very stressful. It is. But it was fun. >> Well, and it's also I think one of the. more satisfying games ever invented. >> uh in that when you would things would. get a little hairy and if you got like. two in a row of the exact ones that you. needed. >> and made I think it was the Tetris when. you got like was it like five or was it. four? >> I don't remember. probably four because. the tallest block was four high. >> Was it four high? But it would make all.

four disappear at once. And if you got a. couple of those and you went from like. 70% high to down to like 20% in an. instant, >> there's no feeling like that. >> No. No. Tetris was pretty great. I loved. it, too. >> It was awesome. >> I want to shout out some other ones. There was another one, Metroid, which I. rented countless times for an entire. weekend from Blockbuster and would spend. the entire weekend with friends trying. to beat it. And if I remember correctly, I never beat Metroid, but it was really.

groundbreaking in that there wasn't like. some path you had to stick to. Like, you. were meant to explore these vast areas. and find stuff before you could advance. to the next level. That was pretty new, actually. So, Metroid was. groundbreaking, too. And then there were. other ones that were just fun to play. like ice hockey. Did you play that one? >> I I was always into sports games. So I. was I played hockey and golf. Uh and. >> what about tennis? >> Tennis. I played all those. >> That was fun. Did you play the MLB.

baseball game? >> I'm not sure if I played that one. >> That one was very addictive. RC ProAm. Ducktales was actually a lot of fun. And. then there was an Army one called. Jackal. And then if you like. skateboarding at the time, which I did, there was skate or die, which was pretty. good. But my money was on Town and. Country Designs, Skate and Surf, I think. it was called, and you could skateboard. and then you would go surf. And it was a. lot of fun to play, too. >> Yeah. I was so uh into the sports games, and I still play the PlayStation uh uh.

what is it? PGA 2K for their golf game. It's still a lot of fun. But uh I played. I was addicted to the Atari beach. volleyball game wherein it was two. players aside and both players were. connected to one another. They could not. move independently. [laughter]. So when you're moving your joystick. around, they're both running in the. exact same pattern. >> Yeah, that's hilarious. That sounds It. reminds me of another game that Dave dug. up called Chase the Chuck Wagon, which.

was just about as bad as it got for. Atari, where a dog chases the the wagon. from the Chuck Wagon commercials. >> It's a branded game. >> Poop out. Yeah, who who would have. thought? And then it would poop out like. food and the dog would eat the food. That was like the point of the game. >> Uh you should speak a little bit about. Zelda, though. The Legend of Zelda. That's a game again that by the time. that came out, it it felt like a kids. thing. Uh, and again, we couldn't afford. a an NES. So, what was Zelda all about? >> So, I never liked Zelda.

>> It did something to my mind or my brain. that was not [laughter] comfortable. I. don't know why. It's almost like, have. you ever um what's your grocery store? Kroger or Publix? I can't remember. >> Uh, both, but generally Publix. >> Okay. So, there's a lot of people out. there who are only Publix and only. Kroger. And I think my theory is is that. they're laid out in a certain way that. they appeal to one type of person and. then the other one appeals to a. different type of person. So if you are. a Publix person and you go into a. Kroger, it feels weird and out of place.

and reality is just slightly a skew. That's how Legend of Zelda made me feel. So I never got into it, but I know some. people like have essentially dedicated. their lives to that game. like beyond. playing it, like probably dress up as. Link, the main character, and have like. all sorts of toys and stuff like that. Like Legend of Zelda was really big, too. >> Yeah. And it was um certainly not the. first open world game, but uh and I. think there's not a a solid agreement on. what that was. Um there are some.

arguments for the great Atari game. Adventure. Uh that was the first open. world game I played where your avatar. was a square. [laughter]. >> Okay. But it was so much fun because you. could go anywhere for the first time. It. was really different and new. >> But I think Zelda is kind of regarded as. or The Legend of Zelda as. >> one of the first open world like really. good open world games, I guess, >> right? Yeah. >> An advanced one. >> And it was by the same guy who did Super. Mario Brothers, so that's not.

surprising. >> Yeah. >> What else you got, Chuck? >> I mean, not a whole lot else. So, I. guess we should we should definitely. talk about blowing in those cartridges. cuz I even made that joke before we. recorded because my microphone wasn't. working and. >> uh Dave who's sitting in for Jerry said, "Unplug the cable and just plug it back. in." I said, "Should I blow in it?". >> Right. And you don't want to actually. So, did you knew about that, right? >> I blew in a lot of cartridges, Atari. cartridges, too. >> So, that was the thing. If your Nintendo.

cartridge didn't work, um you would take. it out of the VCR like um entry point. and you would blow on it. Everyone blew. on it and you put it back in and it. would work. >> The thing is it it wasn't doing anything. when you blew on it. You weren't helping. it. It just hadn't made the correct. connection the first time. So when you. took it out and put it back in, the. chances were that you were making the. correct connection then and then the. game would work. But you being a dumb. 10-year-old thought, "Well, I blew on. it, so that fixed it." But there.

Nintendo long said, "Do not blow on. these things. It's actually bad for. them." And no one listened until there. was this guy who came along and actually. ran a study, the first the world's first. study on what blowing on a Nintendo. cartridge does. >> And it didn't work. Uh this is in 2012. His name was Frankie Bitruelloo. And you. know, it was a very rudimentary study, but I mean, how else are you going to do. it? You're going to have a control game. you don't blow into and you're going to. have a game game you blow into.

>> And uh after how long did he do this? >> 30 days. Every day for 30 days. >> The guy spent a month blowing on this. game. >> Uh took this the blown cartridge out at. the end and showed that it was it was. corroded and kind of gross. [snorts] And. uh it's it's funny like you don't know. what kid you always wonder who invented. this cuz every kid did it because every. kid saw another kid do it. >> who just got it from some other kid. But. it was just sort of known like you would. take it out and it was always the same.

thing. You would do it really quick and. just go. >> and [laughter] like run the cartridge. back and forth in front of your mouth. and then stick it back in. >> Yeah. I mean that sound just triggered a. [laughter] a tidal wave of nostalgia in. mech. That was amazing. I'll remember. that. >> So, don't blow in your Nintendo. cartridges, people who still play. Nintendo original NES. >> Maybe we should follow this up again one. day. >> to to do one on the music of Nintendo. >> No. Well, just sort of everything we. didn't cover because the N64 was such a. big deal. And.

>> Sure. >> Uh I don't know. This could be a a. two-parter separated by time and space. >> Okay. I like that idea, Chuck. Let's. definitely do that. Um, and in the. meantime, since Chuck and I just hashed. out a second part to this episode, of. course, that means [music] we've just. unlocked listener mail. >> Maybe next Christmas. it can be our, you know, cuz this is. kind of Every year we try to do a a toy, a famous toy. >> Mhm. Yeah. No, I had the same thought. I.

just didn't want to spill the beans. >> Oh, all right. Didn't consider them. spilled. >> Yeah, they're spilled all over. >> All right. Speaking of spilling all. over, uh this is a correction that on. something you said that I I don't know. how I didn't catch this, but. >> oh boy, >> it's the uh we'll call it the great uh. nutter butter controversy [music] of. 2022. >> Uh hey guys, at the end of the. vaudeville episode, Josh said it's weird. how there were two types of nutter. butters and they're totally different. The wafery kind and then the peanut. shaped cookie. And I'm I don't remember.

what I said. I must have just been like, "Huh?". >> [laughter]. >> I think that's exactly what you said. >> And he mentioned both have the same. logo, same packaging. Uh, which is not. true. Uh, just two different types of. peanut butter cookies. And I guess this. is what you're talking about cuz we had. a bunch of people write in. Uh, [music]. the peanut shaped cookies are the Nutter. Butters. Uh, Josh, but the other wafery. treats are Nutty Buddy bars. >> Mhm. >> Did you look Is this what you meant? >> No, I think this person is from an. alternate bear and same bears dimension. Cuz in in our dimension that there it's.

the same thing. Same package, same name, same everything, just different cookies. I'm standing by it. >> Is the Nutty Buddy what you were. thinking of, though, is what I want to. know. >> In that person's dimension, yes. [laughter]. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Uh it's easy to get them mixed up, guys, if you're not a true nut specialist. Uh and Chuck didn't pick uh pick up on. it, which was weird cuz I love both. I. don't I never buy these, of course, but. boy, a Little Debbie Nutty Bar.

So so good. >> I think you would like the other version. of Nutter Butters, the kind of wafery. one. I think you would really like it. >> That's the Nutty Bar or the Nutty Buddy. >> No, that's the Nutter Butter. But I know. what you're saying. >> Okay. [laughter]. Oh man. >> Who who wrote this email? >> Uh this is George. I think George is. going to be more confused now than ever. >> So George says, "PS, [music]. got to go. It's raining donuts again. outside." [laughter]. Thanks a lot, George. We appreciate the. dispatch [music] from your dimension.

Hopefully you guys are having a happy. holiday season there too. And if you. want to be like George and reach out and. say hello, you can do that in an email. Send it to stuffodcast@ iheartradio.com. Stuff you should know is a production of. iHeart Radio. For more podcasts, iMheart. Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple. Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your. favorite shows.