SYSK Gets Weird Playlist: Will We Find Evidence of Aliens by Their Engineering Projects?

[music]. Okay, I'm back with a neat and. rollicking look at some sci-fi theories. in [music] the truest sense of the word. sci-fi about what lines of progress any. intelligent civilization [music] should. follow. And this concept leads pretty. much inevitably to things like building. space probes and harnessing the energy. of stars. All of which should leave some. [music] telltale trace of a civilization. already far more advanced than ours. What happens after that is another. story.

>> [music]. >> Welcome to Stuff You Should Know from. how stuffuffs.com. [music]. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm. Josh Clark and there's Charles W. Chuck. [music] Bryant. Jerry's over there with. their foot on the button. And that. [music] means this is stuff you should. know. The podcast, >> the foot on the button. just waiting to cut us off. >> Yeah, that's what no one knows. But.

Jerry has [music] a kill switch at her. foot for uh all of our profane tie. raids. >> Yeah, it would kill us if she ever. pressed it. >> That's right. >> That's why they call it that. >> But she's not very good at it, I've. noticed. >> I've [laughter] noticed, too. Some stuff. slips by. >> Yeah, I told her she's like Keith. Richards of podcast producers cuz he. can't use uh guitar pedals. >> So, he's known for that. Is that a. thing? Well, I mean, I don't know how. known he is, maybe among guitar players, but he uh he just plugs right into the.

amp. It's pretty great. >> Oh, I see. >> And his he was on uh Mark Marin's. podcast. It was a great interview. And. Marin, he you know, is pure Keith. Richards. And he was just basically. like, I you know, I have a hard time. standing upright. Like, I can't mess. with trying to press foot pedals. [laughter]. >> Right. That's Keith, man. >> Yep. Very pure. >> Yeah. And by pure, I mean. >> pure heroin. >> Yeah. [laughter]. >> Pure China. >> No, he's clean now. But.

>> is he really? That's astounding. >> Well, I mean, no. I mean, he doesn't do. like hard drugs anymore. >> I got you. >> I think he drinks and smokes weed. >> I gota. keep. Come on. >> Yeah. Pristine. >> Actually, Maron smoked his first. cigarette in a decade in that show with. him. >> Oh, that was smart. That was [laughter]. a good decision. He was like, "I have. to. How can I not?". >> Yeah. He He easily could not have done. that. >> I'm disappointed. Did he really?

>> Yeah. Keith Richard offered him a smoke. and he's like, "Sure.". >> Yeah. I mean, I see that, but at the. same time, I also see not smoking. [laughter]. >> Listen to you. >> I know I'm being judgy. >> Wagging your finger. >> So, Chuck, >> yes. >> Have you ever used energy? >> Yes. Well, you know, when you're using. energy, most likely you're using. something like a fossil fuel, right? >> Yeah. Right. >> Like gasoline or natural gas or.

something like that. Stuff that comes. from decomposing dinosaurs. >> Yes. >> Okay. The problem with using decomposing. dinosaurs, as most people know, is that. it's essentially a non-renewable. resource. There's no more dinosaurs to. decompose any longer. And even if there. were, it would take tens of millions of. years for them to decompose into fossil. fuels for us. Right. >> Right. Even if we could, even if we had. dino DNA [laughter]. >> and we could make new dinosaurs, right, >> just to kill them and watch them.

decompose, >> which is something we would do if we had. the capability. I guarantee it. >> Oh, sure. >> Right. Um, but we don't have that. capability. And as far as I know, like. no one's working on that track right. now, I don't think. just uh Stephen. Spielberg, >> right? Maybe someone at Ruckers. [laughter]. So, um we we have to come up with energy. sources that we won't eventually run out. of. And obviously, there's like wind and. solar. And as far as solar power goes,

from what I understand, we're actually. doing pretty well right now. Like right. now, we use something like 0.01%. of the sunlight that reaches Earth to to. power our our world. So there's a lot of room for growth. potential. >> Sure. >> The thing is is I also saw that if we. keep growing and our energy consumption. keeps growing uh at something like 1% a. year, within a thousand years we'll be. using more than the entire amount of. sunlight that hits the earth um can.

provide. So we really need to come up. with something else. >> Yes. The problem is is [clears throat]. even if we harnessed all of the energy. here on Earth, we would very quickly. outgrow whatever energy it provided. So. some people have said, well, why don't. we just go straight to the source if the. sun's such a great source of energy, but. it's shooting that energy out in. directions other than the Earth. Um, the. stuff that is starting toward the Earth. doesn't make it very frequently. Let's.

just go to the sun. Yeah. And and. basically strangle the life out of it to. get energy from it. Right. >> Great idea. >> And one of the first. >> proposals of it, I don't want to say a. serious proposal because although it's. been taken seriously over the years and. almost been interpreted like scripture, um it was a thought experiment to begin. with, it's something called a Dyson. sphere. >> Yes. Um, well, I guess we should.

introduce the man. Not that we have him. here. >> That'd be awesome. >> He's He's still around. >> Yeah, I know. >> He's an old dude. Uh, but we're talking. about Freeman Dyson, not the maker of. the vacuum cleaner or the uh bladeless. fan. >> or the bladeless hair dryer. >> Is that really a thing? >> Mhm. >> They have a Dyson hairdryer. >> Yeah. You know what the I was so. disappointed when I found out what the. the bladeless van was.

>> Why. >> have you seen those? >> Yeah, you can stick your hand through. it. It's amazing. >> Well, I know. And I was like, it is it. magic? Like, how in the world is. [laughter] it doing this? But it's got a. stupid blade. It's just housed in a in a. casing. >> Yeah. So, that is a terrible name for. it. >> And then it just channels it up and, you. know, squirts it out the front. the there the uh Dyson invention that. always got me was the Airblade hand. dryer. I think we've talked about this. before where you stick your hand down in. there. >> I love those.

>> Yeah. But they're so filled with germs. that actually I was in a a bathroom the. other day and they have a air blade now. that just blows downward onto your hands. and it's actually I'm like, "Okay, now. I'm satisfied with this invention.". >> Well, you know, you're not supposed to. rub your hand on the air blade itself. >> No, but it's so close. It's like you're. playing operation. Like I'm trying to. remove a funny bone or something like. that. It's almost impossible not to hit. the sides of the thing. You know, >> your big meat hooks are just rubbing all. over everything. [laughter]. >> That's gross. >> Yeah, it is gross. Believe me, cuz I.

walk out just crying with my hands held. in the air every time I go to the. bathroom. >> Well, you and I have a very big thing. about airport bathrooms. >> Mhm. >> Um and I think I had the worst one of my. life at uh Boston Logan on our last. tour. >> Oh yeah. What happened? It was just not. up to snuff. Like the first of all, the. door and this might have just been just. this one bathroom, but the doors to the. stalls, none of them secured. >> They've been ripped clean off.

>> Well, they were there, but you couldn't, you know, the locks didn't work. It was. just I basically had to push my hand. against it, which grossed me out. >> Yeah. No, that's not okay. >> Uh, and then the gap when the door was. shut was like two or three inches big. Like you could fully just look in and. say, "How you doing? How's your poop? >> Yeah, that's the the Mr. Peepers model. >> It's just not acceptable. You know, in. this day and age to not have complete. privacy in there. >> I I mean, I agree with you. I I again, I'm going to reiterate. I think there. should be one stall for an entire.

bathroom so that no one could possibly. sit down next to. But barring that, >> one stall to rule them all. >> Exactly. But barring that though, like. the the place like what we have in our. office is acceptable. It's a good. second. Oh, it's great. >> There's like a complete wall in between. you. There's a complete wall in front of. you and a door that's securely shut. >> Yeah, it's a water closet. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I guess I guess it. is. There's a lot of water flow in. there. >> Oh, man. I knew we were going to get.

distracted by poop. >> Yeah. This isn't even the portaotty. episode. >> I know. All right. So, sorry. Back to. Freeman Dyson. Uh not the vacuum maker. He was uh born in England. He worked. most of his career. He's retired now, but worked most of his career as a. physics professor at the Institute for. Advanced Study at Princeton University, not Ruckers. [snorts]. Uh he was a civilian scientist with the. RAF in World War II.

>> Cool. >> Uh went to Cambridge, then Cornell for. grad school. >> This guy's got some bonafetus. Uh, and. then he's been in the news recently by. being a big uh, I mean, brilliant, brilliant man, but he's been in the news. recently by being one of the more. prominent scientists that on uh, as a. climate change skeptic. >> Oh, is that right? >> Yeah. and not like a complete skeptic. like he does believe that it's I believe. where what his stance is that he does. believe that it's man-made but he.

doesn't think we have enough detail. about [clears throat] all the variables. for these computerenerated models to be. accurate. >> I see. >> So he's he's basically saying like this. is not the end of the world and in fact. he thinks that increasing levels of CO2. can be a good thing for humanity. ultimately. >> How so? >> I don't know. I didn't get that far. [laughter]. >> He's like, it gets it gives you a pretty. good buzz. >> Maybe. I don't know. It was pretty. interesting though. He's like, I think. starting about, you know, 6 to 10 years.

ago really started making the news with. uh his somewhat controversial cuz he's a. brilliant man and all these other. scientists are like, "Wow, he's such a. smart guy, but he's so wrong on this.". >> Yeah. >> But then other people are like, "No, he's totally right.". >> That's pretty interesting. >> Anyway, um so that's who he is. And he. in 1937, well not 1937, he in the 1960s. was reading a book from 1937 called Star. Maker. >> Mhm. >> From uh science fiction author Olaf.

Stapleton. And uh he saw this thing. called a light trap from this book. Uh. and this book also had predicted things. like virtual reality. And it's kind of a. pretty much a landmark sci-fi science. book. And um he said, "Hey, this light. trap sounds like a good idea. I'm gonna. rip it off." [laughter]. >> Yeah, he did. And he actually it it was. I think a paper that was published in. science in the journal Science in 1960. And it's really short. Did you read it?

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. It's like I think it took up two. pages in science um out of like a. thousand or something like that in that. volume. But um he basically said this. would be a great thing as you say to rip. off for a thought experiment I'm working. on right because just very recently. something called project oma had been. created and that was they started to. search the sky for extraterrestrial. intelligence it was the first um and. they were looking for radio signals. still are but Dyson was saying well hold.

on a second if you're going to start. looking for extraterrestrial beings like. signs of intelligent civilizations you. should maybe start looking for these. And and they came to be called Dyson. spheres because he was the first one to. popularize it even though he got the. idea from Olaf. >> Yeah. He actually said um he thought a. Stapleton sphere was a better name, but. I guess not good enough to actually use. it. >> Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. He said it. once, >> right? Very quietly. [laughter]. >> But so this Dyson sphere, he he it was.

originally created as a again a thought. experiment. He he wasn't he didn't talk. about how to construct it necessarily or. uh anything like that. Although there. were some follow-up correspondence. um after the letter first came out. But. almost immediately people started. thinking about how you would create one. of these things. This this Dyson sphere. And the the whole point we should say. basically at its at its basis a Dyson.

sphere is um an engineering project a. mega structure that. initially was thought to be basically a. hollow sphere that you built around a. star for example we would build it. around our sun. >> right. >> and the whole point of this thing is on. the inside of the sphere are solar. arrays so that all of that sunlight like. we were talking about earlier that gets. wasted as far as we're concerned. >> Yeah. >> Is captured and converted into usable.

energy for us. And and Freeman Dyson's. point was if you build one of these. things, you're going to capture light. Light won't get out, but infrared. radiation, heat, thermal heat will. escape. And so if you're looking around. the skies for aliens, look for something. that has a tremendous amount of like the. infrared radiation of a star but isn't. putting any light out and maybe you just. found an alien civilization. That's how. it began. But people started trying to. figure out how to make one of these.

things almost as soon as he he published. that letter. >> So the one thing I don't get was he. saying that look for this because other. civilizations out there are using a. Dyson sphere. He he said that it would. be likely that they that this would be. an invention they came up with. >> Yeah. Gotcha. >> Yeah. >> All right. Well, um let's go. Should we. go to uh this uh Nikolai Cardartesef? >> We should I think we can't put it off. any longer. >> It's pretty interesting. In the 1960s,

there was an astrophysicist named. Nikolai Cardartesef and um he was a Bond. villain and. uh actually he wasn't, but he should. have been. Um he had this idea that. there were three classifications of. civilization. Uh type one which is basically. we have learned how to harness all the. energy on the home planet like. everything you can possibly harness here. on earth. And you would think well.

that's probably us. We're not quite. there yet. Uh really smart dude named. Miokaku. Um not a bond villain either. He said, uh, in the next hundred years. or so, maybe 200 years, we might. actually be a type one civilization. >> Yeah. And like you said, that's where. every bit of geothermal energy, every. drop of sunlight, every um um. every bit of hydroelectric power, all. that stuff, every potential bit of. energy is being harnessed by us.

>> That's right. >> Yeah. We're nowhere near that right now. I think Kaku's assessment's a little. rosy. Oh well. >> And I can say that because he was on our. TV show. >> sort of. >> Well, he was. >> he Yes. He appeared on He didn't. interact with us in any real way. [laughter]. >> Exactly. >> He has no idea who we are. >> No. None. Uh so type two is the next of. course and they uh that kind of. civilization would understand how to. harness all of the energy not only on. your own home planet but the energy of a.

star in its own solar system. >> Right? That's where the that's. [clears throat] where the Dyson sphere. comes in. >> Yeah. >> You know, >> that's what we aspire to do one day, >> right? Maybe a million or so years from. now. And then type three is just kind of. like following this logical progression, >> right? And that's harnessing all the. energy of all the galaxies or of entire. galaxies, not necessarily all of them. >> Yeah. I think the the second the second.

stage, the type two civilization would. be um the either the hardest to get to. or take the longest to get to, >> right? >> And that's because when you build that. first Dyson sphere, your technology and. your energy efficiency and your. productivity is going to just shoot. forward exponentially from that point. on. >> Oh yes. So, so once you build that first. one, you can start building more and.

more and more much more quickly. So, you. jump from a type two to a type three. civilization pretty pretty fast compared. to how long it took you to go from a. type one to a type two civilization. >> Yeah, I think it's like any any product. even that that first one is tough and. then you can scale it and uh but well, we'll we'll get to the the robots here. soon. Okay. >> In fact, let's take a break. >> I'm getting a little psyched, Chuck. And. we'll talk a little bit more about the. sun boo right after this. [singing].

[music]. >> You should know. [music]. [music]. All right. So, I went when I said the. word son. >> Yeah, I thought that was odd.

>> No, it's not. You know, >> I honestly had no idea where you're. going with this. >> Well, you do. You're being koi. Uh most. people out there, most longtime. listeners know that our Sun podcast was. one of our our biggest struggles and uh. would have been our biggest achievements. had we uh done it right. >> [laughter]. >> It's It's the uh biggest pity applause. we get. >> Yeah. >> For the sun. And No, no, it was it was. fine. That's what we get. >> You tried.

>> Yeah. Good for you for trying. >> But uh let's talk a little bit about the. sun. This stuff I can deal with at. least. >> Okay. >> Uh as far as its immense power and. energy. Um and I love that our own. article has some of these uh. comparisons. Um, the sun can generate 5. *. 1023 horsepower. >> I think that that is a typo. I think. that it's supposed to be 5 * 10 the 23rd. power. >> Oh, you think. >> that's the only explanation I have for.

that? >> Yeah, that doesn't make sense. >> That's a really small number actually. >> Yeah, I agree. >> That'd be like. about. 5,100 5200 horsepower. >> Yeah, that's 5* 10 the 23. It's got to. be. >> someone just got lazy there. >> Seriously, >> they're like, I don't know how to do the. little 23 thing, >> right? I don't I don't know how to use. superscript. What am I like a great. editor? Ah, >> superscript. That's what it is, right? >> Superscript and subscript, I think. >> Uh, so let's put it this way, and this.

one is the one that cracks me up. Um, the sun has enough energy to melt an ice. bridge. 2 miles wide and a mile thick from Earth. to the sun in a single second. >> In a single second. That's pretty good. >> This is the only article I think I've. ever seen an ellipse in. Like like the. author was like, "Wait for it.". >> Yeah. >> In a single second. >> Yeah. I don't even think they did the. ellipse right. Isn't the ellipse. supposed to be right after the letter or. is it there space? >> I think there's supposed to be a space. on either side. >> Oh, really?

>> Technically, yeah. >> I've been doing these wrong then. >> Well, don't feel bad. This thing says 5. time 1,023 horsepower, so it's all good. >> Uh, all right. What else? uh 1 trillion. one megaton bombs going off every second. >> if you're warlike. >> And then finally. uh one single second of sun action, whatever that is, is enough to power our. earth for a half a million years. >> That drives it home.

>> It does. But it also gives you an idea. of just how primitive we are energy. consumption wise. >> Yeah. Like it's it's it's it's crazy. because, you know, we're we're really. worried about running out of our. non-renewable resources, but we use such. a minute amount of energy that that the. sun could power the energy use we use. currently for half a million years in 1. second. >> Yeah, that's nuts, >> right? So, that also kind of takes your.

mind though, too. Um, and this is, I. think, one of the things, one of the. buttons that Freeman Dyson, um, pushed. It It makes you realize like, holy cow, we could do some really amazing stuff if. we could capture a significant amount of. that power that the sun puts out. >> Even an insignificant amount. >> Yeah. Really? Yeah. You'd keep Iggy Pop. going for like another hundred years. [laughter]. Uh so like you said the the idea behind.

the Dyson sphere is this structure. He. originally proposed a hollow sphere and. and kind of referred to it as a shell. Um but I think now or I think he went on. to to make it a solid sphere. He so he. actually said he was really um. uh what's the opposite of clear? >> Convoluted. >> fake. Yeah, I guess a little convoluted. He he didn't really go to the trouble of. spelling out because again, remember.

this is a thought experiment, right, that had to do with finding aliens, not. an engineering schematic. So, he used. some very it was vague. That was the. word I was looking for. He was using. some vague words and people were like, "Wait, what what what are you talking. about? What is this sphere? Is it is it. cohesive? Is it like a a solid body? Is. it hollow in the middle? What's going. on?". >> And he came back and said in a letter, a. followup, he said, "No, no, no. Like. there's there's no way you could build. something that would go around our sun. that would be a solid body that was.

hollow in the middle. Like it couldn't. be a cohesive hole because the. rotational forces, the sheer forces, and. the gravitational forces acting on it. would just obliterate it immediately. >> Yeah. >> Like it it'd just be mechanically. impossible to make it like that. So he. said, "So maybe you would make something. like a bubble or a swarm or something. like that.". >> Yeah. and he said in in the letter, I've. enclosed some bladder acid. [laughter]. Put it on your tongue. >> You're going to love this. It's.

dynamite. >> And call me in an hour. Might make a. little more sense. Uh yeah, our own. article points out that one of the first. downsides obviously if you surround the. sun completely is that sunlight has I. mean I know we'd be harnessing that. energy, but sunlight provides a lot more. than just energy. >> Oh yeah. Like it makes us happy. >> Yeah. >> People write entire songs about how. sunshine makes you happy. Like John. Denver did, [laughter]. >> you know.

>> Uhhuh. And that was just on his. shoulders. >> It would be a global bummer if somebody. enclosed the sun. That's like super. villain kind of stuff, right? >> Yeah. >> Okay. So that's a problem. Another. problem though is that if you were going. to build something like this and and. Dyson even suggested the size of it, he. was saying it would need to have a. radius. So a radius, not even a. diameter, half of the diameter, a radius. that was two times the distance of the. Earth to the Sun. >> Yeah. >> So this thing would be massive, which.

means that it would also enclose the. Earth too, right? Like he wasn't. proposing you just go up and create this. tight ball around the sun. Like it would. be much further spread out and it would. actually encompass the Earth's orbit. within it. >> Oh, so it would be like this. This is. mine. It belong it belongs to the Earth and no. one else and can get any sun. >> Yeah. It would it would block off the. stuff outside of two times the distance. of the Earth's orbit. So, there's a.

couple planets out there that would. would get the old screw job. >> Yeah. >> But but but the ones inside twice the. distance of Earth's orbit would really. benefit from it. >> That's very selfish. >> Yeah. But the other problem is too, Chuck, is I imagine it would things. would get pretty hot. >> Yeah. >> Pretty quickly inside this thing. So the. Earth would be destroyed. >> Yes. >> He And to get around this and a lot of. people I don't think got it immediately.

He said, "Well, you just live inside the. Dyson sphere like like in the outer. shell of it.". >> Oh, sure. Make it habitable. >> Yeah. >> Right. Well, that makes sense. >> Yeah. But, uh, what you were saying. about just the sheer size of it, there. there literally aren't enough raw. materials on our entire planet to make. something this big. In fact, in our in. our entire solar system, there probably. aren't enough raw materials to make a. structure like this. >> No. And not and not still try to inhabit it.

There's just no way. >> Yeah. Um, some people say though and in. Freeman himself, I keep wanting to call. him Freeman like that's his last name, but I just end up sounding like I know. him on a firstname basis. He he was saying um you might be able to. build something like this by. disassembling Jupiter. Well, that was his suggestion. >> Oh, really? >> Yeah. He said, "Disassemble Jupiter and. uh put it back together and you could. build a uh Dyson sphere um that had the.

a radius twice the distance from the. Earth to the Sun. >> and make a solar array of it. >> Must have been some good acid.". >> Yeah. >> Good for him. >> Yeah. >> All right. So I think we're both in. agreement. and most people are in agreement that. this sphere idea is not at all tangible. [snorts]. >> Not as like a cohesive hole. No. >> Like it just remains in the realm of. thought experiment. So why bother?

>> Oh. well that's the interesting thing to me. It basically is kind of like. he meant it as a thought experiment. It's been brought out of the realm of. thought experiments. And yeah, we're in. no way, shape, or form capable of doing. this, but a lot of people have tried to. figure out how to do it. And I think. it's it's one of those things that's. like, yeah, it's theoretically possible. Um, but we're just it's not at our we're. we're nowhere near that that level of.

capability right now. >> Well, I think his other ideas that he. came up with though are are decent. >> Oh, like the swarm and stuff. >> Well, yeah. I mean, let's let's get to. that. He uh he himself even said this. sphere is probably not very realistic at. all. So why don't we do this? Why don't. we think of different machines maybe uh. that are independent of one another that. actually circle the sun, collect this. energy and then beam it back to earth. Right? So, so to him his initial idea. was that sphere and then what it came to.

be was that the sphere was like this. umbrella term for these different. slightly more realistic ideas like the. swarm or the bubble, >> right? >> So like like what's the swarm? Uh well. the swarm maybe they they are in. different orbits and they like the swarm. he likens it to bees like instead of. gathering pollen they're just uh around. the sun moving around gathering energy. and power. >> Right. >> And some of those might be habitable.

too. >> Right. And they're like they're they're. solar arrays that are satellites that. are moving around on independent orbits. of one another. >> That's right. >> And if you and the way that they would. make a Dyson sphere is Yeah. There's a. lot of space in between them. But if you. step back a few orders of magnitude. further back into the other parts of the. galaxy or the universe, Yeah. it would. appear as basically a whole sphere. around the the sun. >> Yeah. Sure. >> So it still falls under that category, right? >> Yeah. He had to keep that sphere thing. because of branding.

[laughter]. >> He didn't want to lose that. >> He's like, "The genie's out of the. bottle.". >> They're like, "You really don't need it. to be a sphere." He's like, "Oh, it's. got to be a sphere.". Uh, so those satellites are actually. they would be called uh statites. >> Well, no. If they were the bubble, they. would be statites. This guy's got it. wrong. >> Oh, really? >> Mhm. >> I thought the solar sails. could be the statites now. So the what I. saw the difference between the swarm and.

the bubble was that the swarm has the. satellites in orbit around the star and. they're they're in their own orbits not. interacting with each other. >> Oh, I gotcha. >> A bubble is where the satellites are in. a fixed position relative to the star. >> So those are the statites, >> right? So they're just kind of hovering. outside of the star. um not in orbit. Okay. Just just kind of hovering. instead. >> And then those are the two. And then the. third are the solar sails. Correct.

>> Well, you can make a solar sail or you. can make any of them with solar sails. And I don't know where that guy got. that. >> Yeah. Did we do a whole episode on solar. sails? >> Mhm. >> Yeah. So, I mean, it makes sense if you. get a bunch of these solar sails. orbiting the sun, uh you might think. that you could harness the power and. send it back to Earth some way, >> right? Exactly. And like that's that's. like you could use that with with with. any of these like whether it's a bubble, whether it's a swarm, whatever you're. doing. Um, and if you, like you said a.

second ago, made them habitable, then. all of a sudden you have a recipe for. survival for the human race if Earth. ever becomes untenable. Right. Right. >> Or we can't terraform Mars. We can go. live on these things. And and when we. think about living out in space, my. brain immediately goes to like the. cramped, tiny tin can conditions of the. ISS, these things don't need to be like. that. I mean, if we're creating Dyson. spheres, we're going to be advanced. enough that we could build some really.

lux um satellites and statites as solar. arrays to go hover or orbit around the. sun, right? So, they could be huge. So. so big in fact that that Dyson was. saying th this this doesn't have to be. an engineering project that's carried. out by a central global government. that's directing the whole thing that as. our energy consumption and energy needs. continue. nations could take it upon. themselves individually to create these.

solar sails uh that are habitable, put. them into orbit independently, and just. that through the the desire to preserve. one's own life would make sure that. their orbit wasn't going to intersect. with somebody else's orbit who was. already up there. And just organically, a Dyson sphere in the form of a swarm or. a bubble could form on its own just by. self-interested nations developing this. technology. basically independent of one. another. >> Wow. >> I don't know. Guy Guy was he had some.

far far thinking thoughts. >> Far thinking. >> Mhm. [laughter]. >> All right. >> I don't have those. >> Uh should we take another break? >> I think so. >> All right. We'll do that and we'll uh. wrap it up a little bit with how to get. this energy back to the [music] home. planet. >> [music and singing]. >> Stop. You [music] should [singing]. know.

[music]. >> All right. So, earlier you talked about. dismantling Jupiter. >> Yeah. >> With a socket set, a couple of. screwdrivers. Yeah. >> Uh, Mercury is another planet that. people have talked about as potentially. harvesting. Um, the good thing about. Mercury, couple of things. One is that.

it is uh near the sun. >> Yeah. So, who needs it already? >> Yeah. So, it would make it um. proximity-wise, it makes a little bit of. sense. And uh [clears throat] I think. this uh Oxford University physicist. Steuart Armstrong. >> is who proposed this. And um one of the. other great things about mercury is it. has a lot of great raw materials uh. namely iron. >> Mhm. >> That we could use. >> Right. And he he actually suggested that. we could disassemble mercury fully in.

basically what amounted to a 40-year. stretch. >> I thought you were going to say h 30. days I could do it. >> right. Exactly. If a contractor tells. you he can take mercury apart in 30. days, don't trust him. >> Agreed. Um, no, this was this was in. basically four 10-year stretches. combined equals 40 years obviously. But, um, I think his point, Armstrong's point. was that you don't have to disassemble. Mercury as a whole and and wait until. it's fully disassembled to put it. together into Dyson to start creating a.

Dyson sphere. You can disassemble and. and then start reassembling as you go, right? And once you start getting one. bit of it online, it's going to help. power and create better efficiency to. harvest and reassemble Mercury, the rest. of Mercury, you know, like we were. talking about earlier. >> Yeah. And not only that, but you could. use that energy all of a sudden you. could there would be supercomputing like. you've never seen. Uh space travel would. get faster. um like all these.

technologies that we can't even like. think about yet would be growing at. exponential rates, >> right? And I mean that's the point like. when you're like, well, what would we do. with with you know all of this energy. every second coming off of the sun? Who. knows? We we we cannot conceive of the. stuff we could do with that amount of. energy yet. Yeah. >> But I guarantee it's not going to be, you know, using fuel like charging our. smartphones. It should be for some. pretty neat stuff, I guess. [laughter].

>> Uh, so the other cool idea is that um, holy cow, how many people would have to. to take part in this kind of a project, just literally the labor force you would. need. And um, I think Armstrong is the. one who said, "Well, you could use. robots actually." Uh, and with the same. idea that once you get some of these. robots going, uh, if they could. self-replicate and build themselves, then you can just kind of sit back and.

watch the paint dry. >> Yeah. >> On Earth, and all these robots are up. there just, uh, building themselves and. working and working, uh, and doing. everything for you. >> Exactly. And that that's why that was uh. his I don't know if it was his point, someone's point along the way is that. when you start that when you build that. first Dyson sphere, all of a sudden it's. just going to keep going and going and. going faster. It's going to spread at an. exponential rate. So you would go from a. type two civilization to a type three. civilization pretty quickly. And as a.

matter of fact, you would also if if. this project was carried out by a. centralized government, it would spread. so quickly and so far uh in such a a. relatively short amount of time, something like going from that first. Dyson sphere to um colonizing an entire. galaxy in something like a million. years, that even if it was a centralized. government involved at the beginning, they would very quickly lose control of. the colonies because they'd be so spread. out and there'd be so many of them that.

they could just basically become. self-sufficient and spread over the. galaxy. So the the reason this is. noteworthy is that if you found one. Dyson sphere, you would probably find. millions or billions or trillions of. them in in just an one section of the. universe, right? You're not you you. probably are not going to find just one. Dyson sphere. You're going to find a. Dyson galaxy. >> Yeah. >> A type three civilization. And that's.

what they're looking for by sifting. through um some of these old sky. surveys. And they found a couple of of. candidates actually in the last year or. so, I think. >> Oh, yeah. >> Yeah. There's a there's a couple of. surveys that have found stars and they. have like typical star names. One is a. KIC8462852, which is a sexy name. >> Yeah. And then the other is EPIC, which. I'm pretty sure they call EPIC.

204278916. Right. >> Wow. >> And Epic was discovered by the Kepler. spacecraft in 2014. And the reason these. things are noteworthy is because um. there is some sort of weird transit. uh pattern where the light dims um I. guess randomly or not necessarily on. some sort of set schedule um around. these stars. And you would say, well,

that's probably just a planet or. something coming in between it. Well, yes, they thought about that already. Um, and normally a a star will dim by. about 1% when a planetized object comes. in between you, the observer, and that. planet. These things are dipping on the. in the um case of KIC star uh 22%. And. in the case of the epic star, 65%. Right.

>> Okay. They have no idea what could be massive. enough to dim those two stars that much. They haven't encountered it before. There's a couple of theories. One of. them said a swarm of comets. Somebody. else said, "Well, you could very easily. go from a swarm of comets to a swarm of. solar arrays." So maybe these are. evidence of Dyson spheres. >> Yeah. I mean, it's possible. Well, you know, it's kind of fun to talk about. robot robots building themselves and.

them doing all this work up there. Uh, one of the big problems is we're not. nearly I mean, we have robot technology. now, but nothing close to that at the. present. Um, and. >> as this article points out that you. would need like it would have to be so. advanced these these robots would have. to be operating without fail up there. because they would be by themselves or. be able to fix themselves and fix. problems. >> Like the the intelligence would need to.

be so far advanced like we can't even. imagine what that would be like. No, but. I mean even if Mishokaku is off by a 100. or 200 or 500 years, that's not that far. off. Yeah. >> Like if we can harness all the energy on. Earth, we should very quickly improve as. far as our technology is concerned. So, who knows? Maybe maybe those robots. aren't that far off, you know. >> Yeah. Um, one other thing that that I.

saw from this though was when uh Freeman. Dyson was talking about disassembling. Jupiter, Chuck. He said that it should. take I don't know roughly 800 years. worth of the sun's energy output to. disassemble and reassemble Jupiter. >> Oh, well that's not bad. >> But do you remember how much comes out. of the sun in a second? We're like, whoa, you know, that's so much. We would. need 800 years worth of that to. disassemble and reassemble Jupiter. >> So we we like not only do we not.

have the capability of building a a. Dyson sphere, we don't even have the. capability of disassembling Jupiter. We. just don't have any way to harness that. energy, which creates this kind of um. chicken [clears throat] or egg dilemma. Like we almost need a Dyson sphere to. create a Dyson sphere at this point. >> Yeah. somewhere Freeman Dyson is. laughing. >> on acid. >> somewhere in New Jersey. Um, one of the. other big issues is, okay, let's say. that you could even do something like. this and harness this energy. Um, to get.

it to Earth is another big problem. Um, if we want to make it actual actually. usable, >> um, some people said we could laser it. over. Uh, but the problems with laser. beams is after about a mile, you're. going to lose a lot of uh, uh, efficiency with it. So, good luck with. that. Uh, microwaves have been floated. out there, but microwaves, even though. they're uh more effective long farther. out than lasers, um, you're still. limited to about 100 miles, which will.

do us no good, >> right? >> So, what's the answer? >> I don't know. >> Yeah, I don't have one either. >> I mean, I guess one of the easy ones is, well, just inhabit the solar arrays. Go. inhabit the Dyson sphere. Stop being so. precious about living on Earth. >> Yeah, that's true. Um, which makes. sense, but I like living on Earth. >> Yeah, but would an Earth 800 years from. now be worth living on? >> Uh, it depends, Chuck. Will it be.

skipping. skipping to school and skinning knees. and spelling bees and all that still? Because if so, then yes. >> Yeah. >> I don't know what you're talking about. >> It's another Simpsons reference. >> Oh, okay. He's It's uh the one where Principal. Skinner came back. The real Principal. Skinner. >> Oh, yeah. Great one. >> He's like He goes, "If uh if you think. uh Skinnes and Spelling Bees are corny, well then Mr. Corn [laughter] me up.". >> That's right. That's when they. introduced uh We'd like to introduce.

Principal Skinner. Principal Skmore. Skinner. [laughter]. >> Armen Tanzarian. >> Yep. That's a great one. >> Um there's one other thing. You got. anything else? >> I got nothing else. >> I got one more thing. So there's that. whole idea that Dyson came up with to. search the skies for this this imprint. where there's a lot of infrared. radiation but no visible light. >> Yeah. >> There's a problem with that because this. guy came along. His name was Robert. Bradberry. He's a futurist I think maybe.

a science fiction writer. And. >> no Robert, >> his little little brother. >> Yeah. >> Um Robert Bradberry said, "Well, you. know what? If you really wanted to um. make these Dyson spheres efficient, you'd make them in like the same manner. that those Russian nesting dolls are. made like a matroka, right? >> So you'd have the the internal sphere. and then outer spheres going around it. catching all that lost heat energy and. turning it into usable power, which is.

awesome because you'd have basically. 100% efficiency as far as the Dyson. sphere was concerned. But if you're. looking at the stars, you would see. nothing because not only would there not. be visible light, there also wouldn't be. any infrared radiation. And Freeman. Dyson just hung his head, went into his. room, and shut the door, and laid down. on his bed for a while. [laughter]. >> The end. >> Yep. Uh, well, if you want to know more. about Dyson spheres, you can start with. this article on howstuffworks.com by.

typing Dyson Sphere into the search bar. at How Stuff Works, as I said. And uh. since I said house stuff works twice, that means it's time for listener mail. Uh I'm going to call this uh we helped. [music] a lady out. Um hey guys, hope. this email finds you well. I've been. listening for only a short time, but it. becomes so addicted. I've already binged. about half of your episodes offered on. Spotify. >> I think she meant binged. [laughter]. >> I know. >> Binged. We uh we're on Spotify, by the.

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