SYSK Gets Weird Playlist: The Story of the Nuclear Boy Scout | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW

[music]. All right, Chuck here winding it down. with number 11. We wanted to finish on. an odd number because odd things are. weird. And this is the SYSK [music]. gets weird playlist. The story of the. nuclear boy scout. What a great episode. Uh, I hope you guys enjoy it. I enjoyed. it listening to it in QA the other day. all over again. So listen to it right. now. The story of the nuclear boy scout. >> Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a.

production [music] of iHeart Radio. [music]. >> Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm. Josh and there's Chuck and Jerry's here, [music] too. And this is a good. oldfashioned barn burner of a stuff you. should know type topic. >> Woo! Whisbang. And Chuck, this was uh. somebody sent this in as a a suggestion. recently, I think. Right. >> Yeah. You know, I think you and I had. both been aware of this story, but uh we. did get a recent [music] suggestion from.

David Parcher. >> Yeah, David Parcher, I think just a. couple weeks ago sent in. >> this suggestion. And look at the timing. >> Yeah. Well, thank you, David. And we're. going to talk about another David. That. is David Han, the nuclear boy scout. >> Yep. And this is one of those where we. owe a a huge debt to a a single human uh. because this story was may have just. gone fairly unnoticed as a a pretty. localized local newspaper item. >> Yeah. uh if it hadn't have been found uh.

by a gentleman named Ken Silverstein who. ended up writing a very large piece in. Harper's magazine and then a book called. the radioactive boy scout colon the true. story of a boy in his backyard nuclear. reactor. So uh big thanks to Ken. A lot. of this came from your work. >> Yeah. And shout out also to the um. journalists from the Natural Resources. News Service, which is this. investigative journalist group that um. just as a public good like investigate.

stories and then turn around and give. them to news outlets. And apparently. that's how Ken came across the story and. began researching it. So there's two. people that were responsible for it at. least. >> Yeah. And three because we have to count. David Han. >> Yeah. uh the Michigan teenager who in. the '9s uh managed to create a nuclear. reaction in the potting shed of his. mom's house. Uh it is a story that is. interesting and amazing but also very.

sad uh in its ending. >> Yeah. And technically we should thank. five people because it took Patty and. Ken Han to reproduce and create David. Han. So we're at five people now that we. need to thank. [laughter]. >> All right. So, David was born uh October. 1976. Uh that's the year you were born, right? >> Yeah. I was just a couple months older. than him. >> Yeah. And look what this guy did. >> Yeah. I. >> What have you ever done? >> Thanks for that. [laughter]. >> Hey, you got a you got a hit podcast, so.

you're not sweating it. >> Oh, I'm sweating. [laughter]. >> Uh when he was a little and we say this. because it very much figures into uh the. end of David's story. It's very sad. But. his mother Patty was diagnosed with uh. depression and paranoid schizophrenia. Uh was h hospitalized through his early. childhood off and on and she would. eventually uh take her own life in 1996. >> Yeah. And that will play into the story. later on. Uh but Patty remains a. character throughout most of it. So too. does um David's father, Ken, who we.

mentioned. He's person five we need to. thank. Um Patty and Ken got divorced I. think when David was really little, like. maybe a toddler. And uh Ken ended up. marrying a c-orker. Uh person number. six, we need to thank Kathy Missig. Uh. Ken and Kathy were both engineers at. General Motors. This whole thing took. place in the suburbs of Detroit. >> Uh specifically Clinton Township, Michigan, specifically later on in a um. a subdivision called Golf Manor, as.

we'll see. But um so David uh lives with. Ken and Kathy and then on weekends he. goes and stays with his mom Patty and. her boyfriend person number seven who we. need to thank Michael Passic. Uh and. they're the ones I I believe who lived. in Golf Manor and under by all accounts. like David lived a pretty normal. childhood um just doing normal childhood. things. It wasn't until he was 10 that. his life found its purpose, which is. pretty early if you think about it, for.

your life to find its purpose. >> Yeah. And by the way, if you live in. Golf Manor, hold your emails. We know. you're in Commerce Township. >> Yes. Thank you for that. I think his his. dad lived in Clinton Township. >> Yeah. It's probably like uh where I. lived in New Jersey. It's like all these. old townships just run together. >> Yeah, that's what it looked like on the. map. >> Yeah. So, uh, the person we really need. to thank, >> this is number eight, person eight, [laughter]. >> uh, is like you mentioned when David was. 10 years old, his stepmom's.

father, so I guess his stepgrandfather, if you count that as a thing, >> uh, he was also an engineer at GM, he. gave uh, little David a book called the. golden book of chemistry experiments. Mhm. >> And little David was fascinated with uh. science and chemistry, but in particular. with uh the stories of uh Mary and. Pierre Cury and their radium discovery. and the glow. I think the glow of that. whole thing really um enthralled. [clears throat] this young guy. >> Yeah, this book was heavily illustrated.

and like the instructions kind of looked. had the same look as like those Ripley's. Believe It or Not comic strips almost. Mhm. >> Totally something that would appeal to a. kid that age or a little older. Um I you. can find it online in its entirety as a. PDF. Um and I looked at that. illustration. I don't really know what. he saw and it's actually black and. white. The glow is just some lines. coming off of a beaker or whatever. But. >> imagination, my friend, >> for some reason it enthralled him so. much so that within two years of.

receiving that book, he was um devouring. his father's chemistry textbooks at age. 12. >> Yeah. So he was I mean these were books. that were more advanced than his age. Clearly a smart guy. Uh at the age of 14. he apparently made nitroglycerin by. himself. Uh which evidently isn't the. hardest thing to do but is very. dangerous to do. Uh there are other. stories like he brought um wanted to. make his own fireworks at Boy Scout. camp. So he brought some powdered.

magnesium. It ended up catching on fire. and ruined a tent. So uh what else? He. he he tried to develop a self-tanning. method that didn't work out right. >> Yeah. He overdosed on canthsanthin. which uh I can't remember which one that. which episode that came up in. Uh but. it's a pigment that turns your skin. orange from the inside out. And that's. what he did. He was trying to come up. with a self-tanning uh method that. didn't use any kind of UV radiation. [clears throat]. >> Yeah. No comment.

>> But he was that kind of dude. He would. just turn up at like a scout meeting or. something bright orange and be like, "Yeah, too much canthazanthin.". >> So, yeah, he's exactly that kid. He's. also the kind of kid who essentially. destroys his bedroom because he's doing. science. Uh the the walls were wrecked. Uh the carpet was stained. They had to. move the carpet out. Eventually, his dad. was like, "Listen, uh this is getting serious. You're. destroying our home. Um, you got to move.

him to the basement first of all. And. when we're not here, you can't be in. here either. Uh, they they took away uh. equipment. They took away some. chemicals. >> And finally, they said, "All right, you're this is out of hand. You can't do. this anymore." So, they said, "All. right, I'll do it." Like every uh. divorced kid says, "I'll do it at the. other parents house.". >> That's right. Um, and so he did. He. ended up setting up a lab in his mom's. potting shed in Golf Manor in Commerce. Township. And um this is where the story.

really starts to kind of take off. because um his dad was getting really. worried that his son was [clears throat]. basically um um creating and selling. drugs. Like that's what he was doing. with his chemistry experiments. And so. like they would he and his um stepmom. would drop in on in the library when he. was supposedly there to see if he was. there. Like they really did not trust. this fascination with chemistry,

>> which I mean I can understand if your. kid blows himself up a couple of times. You're like, "What are you doing exactly. here?". >> Yeah. >> So I don't know if he knew that David. went and set up a a lab in his mom's. potting shed or not and just was like, "That's fine as long as it's out of my. house." I'm not sure. I've never seen. that either way. But one thing that he. did do to try to be like, "Okay, I think. you're creating drugs. You're probably. on them. You may or may not be selling. them." None of those seem to be true. from what I can tell. You need to become. an Eagle Scout. And he pushed his son to.

become an Eagle Scout. >> Yeah. And that's exactly what he did, as. we will later find out. Uh but when it. came time for merit badge selection, >> he said, "I want the one uh that says. atomic energy.". >> Yeah. And the scout master said, uh, I. think he told the the writer of the. book, um, no one had ever chosen that. before in the history of the troop, >> right? >> So, it kind of reminds me of the Brian. Cox scene in Rushmore, uh, with Bill Murray when he says he's.

one of the worst students we've got. >> I can just picture Brian Cox saying that. that no one's ever tried for this badge. before. But, uh, it was it was a legit. badge. It's kind of funny that it. existed. It's different now as we'll. see, but um in 1963 they introduced the. atomic energy badge. >> It came with a pamphlet. >> uh that they created with the nuclear. energy industry that turned out to have. a lot of really useful information. almost like a starter kit.

>> on how to like source radioactive. elements in the real world. Yeah. And. and how to get your own reactor going. >> Yeah. One of the projects you could do. was to build your own geer counter. Like. it was serious stuff. >> Yeah. Maybe so legit that like I said. the Boy Scouts would eventually change. that badge. Uh I think probably because. of what happened with David um in 2005. they replaced it with the nuclear. science badge. >> Yes. So but he's still working on the. original the atomic energy badge from.

1963. Right. >> Oh yeah. >> So um he's just devouring this. He's. having the the best time. He visits a. hospital ward to um learn about X-rays. um which is part of the the merit badge. certification. Um the thing that really. changed things though, Chuck, is he. decided. just these these things the merit badge. was having him do like one of the things. was draw a diagram of a fision reaction. >> Yeah. >> Or build a model of a nuclear reactor,

but a model like a cardboard model. basically or paper machine. >> or. >> Yes. or I will create my own nuclear um. reactor in my mom's potting shed. He he. decided he was so psyched about atomic. energy that he wanted to do it himself. >> Yeah. I mean, I guess you do the model. and you're like, "Hey, that's that. wasn't so hard, >> right? >> Let me see if I can do it for real." And. he wanted to build.

>> and you know, this shows that he was a. kid. I think I don't think this was to. cause harm. He wanted to build a neutron. gun. >> And the way I just for my research, this. is speculation, but it didn't seem like. he was like, I want to build a neutron. gun to try and like blow up the the city. that I live in. >> Not at all. >> It seemed more like a kid who was really. into science and sci-fi and chemistry. and wanted to make a little pew pew gun. >> Yeah. I think neutron gun is a um it's a.

misleading term. I can't get the. Nintendo Duck Hunt gun out of my head. whenever I hear neutron gun. >> But really what a neutron gun is, at. least the one that David made, it's a. block of lead with a cavity carved out. and you put radioactive material in the. cavity and then cover it over with like. aluminum foil and then you just point. the the aluminum foil side of that block. of lead at what you want to uiate and. then you try to start a chain reaction,

a nuclear reaction. That seems to be the. sum total of his goals. He wasn't trying. to build a bomb. He wasn't trying to. sell plutonium to the Libyans. He wasn't. doing anything like that. He just wanted. to see if he could start a nuclear chain. reaction. This thing that had fascinated. him since he was 10 years old. And so he. set about doing that with help from this. um Eagle Scout merit badge pamphlet. >> Yeah. >> Makes the whole thing that much more. nuts. >> Yeah. and also by adopting a um a.

persona as a professor because he starts. writing into organizations trying to get. uh information, trying to get materials, trying to get schematics. He said he was. Professor Han that taught at his high. school, Chipoa Valley High School. >> Go chipmunks. >> Are they? >> I don't know. >> Okay, >> they better be. >> Uh and over the next few years, basically uh and apparently, you know, he he applied himself he didn't apply. himself in school. He was smart, but he. was failing.

almost failing out. Basically, barely. passing like the math and English exams. needed to graduate eventually. But that. is to say, these letters had like. spelling errors and grammatical errors. It didn't seem like they were written by. a professor, but people bought it. And. before you know it, he's like. corresponding as a professor to these. adults. >> Yeah. And these adults are just totally. into this correspondence. They're really. enjoying helping this who they think a. high school physics teacher learn um the.

stuff he's looking for about nuclear. energy to ostensibly go and teach to the. kids. Right. So this correspondence is. like genuine. The only thing um. illegitimate about it was that he was. misrepresenting who he actually was. >> Yeah. >> A professor rather than a high school. student. But other than that, everything. else about it seems to be pretty neat. >> Yeah. Except for the fact that it's. dangerous and illegal. >> Yes. So, one of the people that he um. corresponded with, I think he. corresponded with him the most was named. Donald Herb, erb and he was the guy who.

was the head of the department that. produces isotopes. If you need isotopes, um you can go to the nuclear regulatory. commission, this is not you, but like if. you are in some sort of industry that. uses isotopes. you. >> and this herb will be like, I got you. I. got you covered. [laughter]. For some reason, they come in these. little baggies with like um card suits. [laughter] printed all over them. It's. weird. That's a herb kind of touch. >> That's so nice. >> But he was uh he worked for the Nuclear. Regulatory Commission and nobody helped.

um David Han more than Donald did. Again, unwittingly. >> Yeah, absolutely. So, should we take a. break? >> We should. >> Okay. All right. I was about to keep. going, but let's take a break and we're. going to talk about his pursuit of. radioactive materials right after this. [music]. [music].

[music]. >> [music]. >> By the way, Chuck, it's the Chipua. Valley Big Red, which appears to be a. giant cardinal. >> Oh, >> if you ask me, that was a that was a. missed missed opportunity. Yeah, >> chipmunks. >> Chipoa chipmunks. The rabid chipmunks. >> Yeah, I love it. All right. So, when we.

left off, David Han was getting serious. about building this uh nuclear reactor. Um, he needs material to do that. So, and we should point out that, you know, I said it was dangerous. It was. dangerous. He did know this. He still. pursued it, but he like he had a lead. shield uh that he worked with. He threw. away his contaminated clothes. He left. his shoes in there and didn't take them. in his house. So, >> it was like his driving shoes but in a. potting shed that he was building a. breeder reactor in.

>> Do you have driving shoes? Is that a. thing? >> Uh, I know that it's a thing from. watching old episodes of Frasier. >> I've never heard that. >> Yes, you've seen driving shoes. People. wear them and they're totally unaware. that you're not supposed to wear them. out of your car, but it's like if your. car is so nice, you take off your. outdoor shoes and put on your driving. shoes that never leave your car. >> And that way you don't get your car. dirty. Yeah. I don't know if I have seen. them. I guess I just maybe didn't. >> They're like they look kind of like um a.

cross between a loafer and a moccasin. And then the dead giveaway is the the. tread on the bottom comes up the back of. the heel as well because of the position. that your foot is in when you're. driving. It gives you grip. >> All right. I'm going to have to look. this up. >> You've seen them. >> All right. Uh All right. So, [laughter]. that's amazing. 52 years old. Never knew. about this. I was only probably 40 when. I learned about it, so I don't feel bad. >> Yeah. All right. So, uh, he starts. looking for materials. Um, and these are.

just a few sort of stories about he. would go about that. Uh, he wanted some. amaresium 241. >> for this neutron gun. Uh, in the booklet. that he got from the from the Boy. Scouts, uh, said you can get this stuff. in smoke detectors. So, he tries to. steal them from the Boy Scout camp. uh. got caught and sent home early. >> Uh then he writes smoke detector. companies saying I need a bunch of these. things for a school project. Eventually. one company sold him a hundred broken.

ones for a hundred bucks. >> Couldn't figure out how to find this. amaresium. So got in touch with another. smoke detector company who was like, "Oh, well here's where you find it." And. was able to extract amoresium uh enough. to like weld together with a blowtorrch. >> Yes. So, remember I was talking about. the neutron gun is a a lump of lead with. a cavity hollowed out and then you put. your radioactive material in the the. cavity of lead. Now, we had radioactive. material.

>> That's right. >> Aesium is um I looked up why it would be. in smoke detectors. Did you see why? >> No. >> It's really interesting just for a. second. So uh amaresium it because of. its radioactive decay it creates a flow. of ions um positive and negative ions. that are are moved across like this. metal plate and there's a constant. movement of ions that this amium is. creating from the air around it and when. smoke interacts with those ions it.

actually breaks that flow that flow is. detected by the smoke detector which. triggers it to go off. Isn't that just. so bizarre? That's how your smoke. detector works. >> And that's how they still work. >> Yeah. Oh, yeah. There's still a. mirrorium in smoke detectors today. >> Amazing. >> Yeah. >> So, you said he built his own geer. counter. >> um I don't know if it was this one or if. he ended up getting another one, but he. would drive around upper Michigan uh. with this geer counter on just looking.

for naturally occurring uranium out in. the world. And then eventually he's. like, "This isn't working out." So he. got a Czechoslovakian firm uh that the. NRC told him about and sourced uranium. ore. >> Yeah. He had that Geiger counter mounted. to his dashboard and apparently anytime. he drove he had it turned on. Isn't that. amazing? >> Yeah. I mean that's you got to find this. stuff. >> And he actually did find some stuff. It's called pitch blend. And it's a it's. a source of low-grade um uranium. And he. tried to extract it, but he couldn't.

purify it enough. So, like you said, he. was like, "Well, I'll just buy some pure. uranium from a firm in Czechoslovakia. that he heard about either from the. pamphlet or from Donald Herb, one of the. two.". >> Yeah. Another thing he did was uh the. little mantle, like the little mesh. sacks that you tie onto a gas lantern. Mhm. >> Uh he bought thousands of those because. they have little tiny amounts of uh. thorium 232. >> and uh so you know he buys thousands of. these from surplus stores, buys.

thousands of dollars in lithium. batteries to extract lithium. So he's. being very um you know uh I think. showing a lot of initiative at least how. to find this stuff. >> Yeah. I mean, like, he's using his his. afterchool um job money to buy $1,000 in. lithium batteries to purify the thorium. that he got from the gas lanterns that. he purchased and extracted it from. Like, I can't imagine how much time and. effort this took. And by the way, he did. purify that thorium pretty well. I saw. that he got it to 9,000 times the level.

found in nature of radioactivity and. about 170 times the level that you would. need a license from the Nuclear. Regulatory Commission to possess. >> He also went around, of course, where. are you going to find uh old dangerous. radioactive things? >> Uh junkyards and antique shops. So, he. would take that uh geer counter into a. junk shop or an antique store and he. would walk around until something lit up. uh like radium paint. Uh if you remember.

our um I think it was pretty excellent. podcast on the radium girls. >> Mhm. >> And he would find like radium paint in. an old clock. >> Yeah. Um yeah, he found a vial of paint. just tucked away inside of one and that. then he really had his radioactive. material for his neutron gun. um he. actually stepped it up and built a. second gun. He'd also from corresponding. with Donald Herb gotten even better at. creating a neutron gun that was going to. um be useful in creating a nuclear.

reaction. Um he also found that uh when. he used the the radium on on um I think. the thorium that he purified, he was. trying to trigger a chain reaction by. bombarding thorium with neutrons. It's. what he was trying to do. Um, he found. that the thorium wasn't converting into. uranium like it was supposed to. So, he. contacted Donald Herb and Donald Herb. said, "Your neutrons are too fast. You. got to slow them down. One of the best. ways to slow them down is tridium." And. he said, "Well, where would I find. tridium?" And apparently they use.

tridium to make the glowing sights on. gun scopes and gun sights. So he ordered. I think dozens of gun sites from mail. order cataloges from stores and then he. would scrape the tridium off and then. send them back and say I need this this. site repaired. There's no tridium on it. and they would put more tridium on it. and send it back and he'd just create a. new pseudonym and send that back in. That's how methodical that kid was. >> So this is all kid stuff. He's like 14,

15 years old, >> right? >> Eventually, he turns 17 and he says, "All right, I think I want to build an. actual nuclear reactor." Uh, it's called. a tiny breeder reactor. Uh, they've been. around since the early 1950s when the US. developed them, uh, when we were, you. know, sort of the beginning of the age. of trying to use nuclear power for. electricity. >> And they're like, well, these little. tiny breeder reactors might be a good. way to extend the supply of fuel or. something. Um, it never quite worked out.

that way. Uh, I think they're still. working on that kind of thing in Russia. and China, but it never really went off. the ground, but it was enough to inspire. David to think that maybe I can build a. small thing like this in in my mom's. potting garage or a potting shed. >> Yeah. The difference between a breeder. reactor and a regular reactor is that. you um in a regular reactor, you just. use fuel and you get energy from the. fuel. With the breeder reactor, you get. energy from the fuel, but it also. creates more fuel and you end up with.

more fuel than you started with. I saw. it um likened to leaving your house or. the car with a half a tank of gas and. when you return home the um the the tank. is full. That's kind of like what it. does. And yet they just could never get. it to work. But that's what he was. trying to do. And the reason why is. because you start with uranium 238 and. that's the most abundant uranium found. in nature. >> That's right. So he he doesn't have. enough uranium no matter what kind it is. to create an actual uh chain reaction.

for a normal reactor. So he says maybe I. can at least. >> do something like he he it seemed like. he became sort of obsessed just. >> with this goal of creating some kind of. nuclear reaction himself. >> Yeah. >> Uh got a blueprint from one of his dad's. textbooks. >> Took that uh amaresium and the radium. from his neutron guns. mixed it with. some aluminum shavings, some burillium, wrapped that up in aluminum foil, and. basically you have yourself a a very.

small reactor core right there. >> Yeah. He created an atomic pile like the. first one that Fermy created in Chicago, but on a much much smaller scale. But it. worked. Like it worked. He created, like. you said, a nuclear reactor and it. started a nuclear chain reaction and it. started to take off actually pretty. quickly. Yeah, he's got that Geiger. counter and he's measuring this thing. like on a daily basis and he's like it's. actually growing like it's getting more. radioactive in here. Uh I imagine he was.

thrilled and also possibly a little bit. like Matthew Broadick and War Games. where it's like oh wait a minute like. what have I done here? Uh such that he. was worried and took it apart. He did. Apparently, he could detect it from five. houses down the street. And I looked up. um pictures of Golf Manor. And I mean, their yards are decent size. So, five. houses away is a pretty good distance to. be able to pick up his um nuclear.

reactor in his mom's potting shed with. his geer counter. And at that, >> big side yards there. >> Yeah. Lots of big sideyards. Um. >> no zero light lines. >> No, no, no. Nothing like that. No. This. is Golf Manor, man, that we're talking. about. Um, so he took it apart and he. just kind of distributed the different. parts to try to drop the the. radioactivity levels in his mom's. potting shed. And uh he kind of went. about his life after he he um. disassembled his reactor. He'd achieved.

his goal. Um but apparently he had a. penchant for stealing wheels and tires. off of cars. Um he admitted as much in. an interview later on uh as as an adult. And he he seems to have gotten caught. doing that by the police uh shortly. after he disassembled his reactor. And. when the police caught him, they they. said, "Look, we're going to search your. car." And he said, "Go ahead, search my. car, but do not open that toolbox. That. toolbox is highly radioactive.".

>> Was that a good cliffhanger for a break? >> I think [laughter] so. Imagine the cops. going, "What?". >> They're like, "We got to listen to ads. before we know what happens.". >> Mhm. Sorry. >> All right, we'll be right back. [music]. [music]. [music].

>> [music]. >> All right. So, it's August uh almost. September uh 1994. That reactor is uh. taken apart. I think he put the thorium. in a shoe box. Uh the radium and the. amaresium was in the shed still. >> and the rest is in the trunk of his car. He's just been pulled over, like you. said, because uh there was reports that. he was stealing tires and wheels. And he.

said, "Warning, that thing's. radioactive. Don't open up that uh that. toolbox." And so they said, "Well, maybe. we should. This sounds like an an IED to. me.". >> Uh an improvised explosive device. Why. don't we call them the bomb squad to be. safe? Called in the bomb squad. They. said, "This whole car basically is. radioactive." And all of a sudden, the. federal radiological emergency response. plan is triggered and the EPA and the. FBI and the NRC and the DOE are and the.

state and local authorities are all. like trying to not trying to get this. kid, but trying to figure out what in. the world is going on with this kid. >> Yeah, he's 17 at the time still. And all. of a sudden, these huge agencies are. like swooping down on him to figure out. what's going on. The thing is, I I guess. they didn't think to ask the right. questions or their imaginations just. didn't go as far as they could have, but. they seemed to have in this initial.

questioning not really have gotten any. further than his car. And he didn't. offer up any information whatsoever. about his actual like nuclear reaction. experiments in his mom's potting shed. They didn't even know there was a. potting shed at his mom's house at this. point. >> Really hard to believe. >> Yes. But that's the level of questioning. that this kid was subjected to. And I. mean, in retrospect, you're like, "Are. you guys kidding? You didn't know about. the potting shed right off the bat?" But. if you're an FBI agent or a Department. of Energy agent, you're talking to a.

17-year-old kid, you're probably not. going to assume that because they have. this stuff in a toolbox in their car, they actually were successfully creating. nuclear chain reactions in their mom's. potting shed. I can kind of commiserate. with that. Sure. You probably assume he. just got it at radiation or us. >> pretty much. [laughter]. >> Uh so a few months later is when uh they. finally got an expert from the state. department of public health to interview.

David more thoroughly and that turned up. the potting shed. Uh David's mom at this. point had gathered um most of the um. radioactive stuff and gotten rid of it. I I imagine not in a very safe way at. all. No, >> probably just went in the trash can. >> Uh, and they still found a lot of. radiation at the house in the materials. there in the shed. They had the. apparently there was a vegetable can. that had about a thousand times uh the. normal background radiation. >> And so they called in federal.

authorities and they said, "Well, your. house is a well, the potting shed at. least is a super fun site.". >> Yeah. Um, they ended up spending 60. grand on a two, three-day operation. between June 26 and 28th of 1995, disassembling the potting shed, I think, getting some of the earth around it out. of there, putting them in sealed barrels. with, you know, rad um radioactive. hazard symbols on it, and they sent it. to um the Great Salt Lake Desert where.

they were buried with other canisters of. low-level radio radioactive waste. Um. his mom's potting shed is in a great. Salt Lake desert buried with other. radioactive material. That's kind of. neat. The the real stuff though, like. you said, it ended up in like the. landfill nearby. Um there was a quote. from David that I saw where he said um. the the the authorities got the garbage. and the garbage got the good stuff in. reference to what his mom had thrown.

away. So yeah, there's some lumps of. amaresium and uh radium sitting. somewhere in the the garbage pile. outside of Clinton Commerce Township. >> And what's in like a thousand years. it'll be safe. >> Probably something like that. >> I was just I don't know how long that. would be. I bet somebody knows though. >> Oh, they'll write in. >> So, uh David falls into depression after. this. Uh his high school uh classmates. were not kind to him, of course. Um,

they called him radioactive boy. Uh, the. EPA said, "Hi, we should, you know, we. can examine you and your body to see if. you're okay." He said, "No, no, no. I. don't want anything to do with that. I'll be fine." Uh, he did get that Eagle. Scout badge. Um, I think the scout. leaders were like, "Should we really do. this?" Um, but they did. They gave him. that Eagle Scout badge. And uh no, apparently that the neighborhood his uh. all those huge sideyards came in handy.

because no one in the neighborhood and. no one at the home or in his family. apparently ever suffered from any kind. of radiation sickness. >> That is so lucky. >> Yeah. >> Like that is really lucky for him and. for everybody. But he no one got hurt. Um that's just mind-boggling at this. point. Um he went on and joined the Navy. a couple years later. Um and he served. for several years, was honor honorably. discharged, and ironically served on the.

USS Enterprise, which is a nuclear. submarine, but he didn't work in any. capacity near the nuclear part of the. submarine. Um he. >> I think he fully served his time in the. Navy actually. >> Yeah, he was honorably discharged. >> No, no, no. I think I think he was. discharged from the Marines. I think he. like he fully served his time in the. Navy. >> Oh, I thought they he was never. discharged. >> I thought they discharged you when your. time was up, too. >> No, you just you're just done. >> You [laughter] just. >> like a discharge means it's time for you.

to go and then you're like, "Wait, I got. three more years." And they're like, "No, it's time for you to go.". >> Gotcha. Okay, I gotcha. All right. So, yes, in between the Navy and the. Marines, he went to college and started. working on an associates degree. U like. you said, he joined the Marines. He was. honor honorably discharged. Um and his. life was just not going the way he. wanted it to. Um 2007 found him. unemployed. Um his mental illness had. really kind of kicked in. Uh and toward. the end of his life, spoiler alert, he.

uh he died at age 39. Um there was a an. FBI report on him where somebody had. been informing on him that he was not. using his meds, that he was heavily. using cocaine, and that he was acting. really paranoid. Um, from what I can. tell based on the FBI documents, it. seems like the person informing on him. seems concerned. Not like they're doing. it out of any kind of vengeful reason, >> right? >> But that that when the FBI showed up and. interviewed him, again, this is when.

he's in his 30s, um, they he he passed. all the inspection or queries that they. gave him, questioning that they gave. him. >> Yeah. And there were, you know, there. were other complaints and reports uh. with the police that, you know, he was. trying to do this again, that he had a. small reactor at his house. Uh another. landlord, I think, said that he had. stolen some smoke detectors. uh that they were missing and they found. them um like, you know, torn apart.

basically uh near David's garage, but. they never they never found any kind of. radiation. He said he hadn't done that. kind of stuff in a decade. And you know, they went and checked like where he was. living and they never found any evidence. that he had at least started up any more. radioactive work. >> Yeah. Imagine during your FBI um. questioning, you're like, I haven't done. any nuclear reactions at home for like. 10 years, man. That's like that is a. different ch. It's like a whole lifetime. ago. Teenage. Yeah, exactly. Um uh the.

FBI documents also give um just kind of. a sad note in 2010, which is where the. FBI's investigation of him as an adult. left off based on those complaints. Um. they noted that he was in rehab after. being charged with a bunch of drug. charges. So apparently the cocaine use. thing was true. Um that was 2010. Six. years later, uh like I said, he was dead. at um age 39. >> Yeah. So uh in the media of course.

initially there were some people that. said that the radioactivity did him in. or that was a factor at least uh very. sadly the the report came back that. wasn't true but he died from combined. effects of alcohol and fentinil uh and. benadryil and he suffered from intel. mental illness just like his mom I think. from uh paranoid schizophrenia and. depression. >> and it's just a very sad end to a story. of a kid who who sounds like he was.

really smart and just wanted to try and. do something really amazing, you know. >> Yeah. Um he he was found dead in the. bathroom at the Walmart that he had gone. shopping in the night he died. Um and it. is a sad end. I don't I don't quite know. what to make of it, Chuck. Like. >> same it's. >> if he were still alive, I don't know. I. think it would be a a much different. story somehow. >> Yeah. >> But he did something. I don't know. Maybe it's the story of somebody who was. just so single-minded they they did.

something that most other people would. have given up on or never even attempted. and that's worth mentioning, you know. >> Yeah, absolutely. Um and I tried to look. at other angles. I just I never saw. anything like nefarious really. >> No, no. Either an FBI interview or a. media interview. The interviewer was. like, I mean, were you thinking of. making a bomb or whatever? And they they. said they reported like he seemed to. just be like that never even crossed my. mind. >> Like no that's not at all what I was. doing. He was just obsessed with.

creating a nuclear reaction and he did. it. >> Yeah. Well, uh thankfully we don't have. to end it on that sad note because Livia. found this other great story uh of a a. kid named Taylor Wilson who got the. radioactive boy scout uh book from his. grandmother as an 11-year-old science. kid. and operating under supervision and. oversight and getting real experts to. help uh actually became the youngest.

person to achieve nuclear fusion at the. age of 14. >> Yeah. Which is amazing. I mean fusion is. a whole new ball game. But yeah, 14. >> and works as a nuclear physicist as an. adult. >> Yeah. And it's supposedly according to. the Guardian a super cool dude too. >> Yeah. And directly inspired from uh. David's story. >> Yeah. And apparently his grandmother. lived to regret it again according to. the Guardian. >> Oh, really? >> Yeah, that's what the Guardian said. Uh. because I guess his grandmother was. giving it to him as a cautionary tale.

and he was like, "Oh, I want to try this. massage." [laughter]. >> Very interesting. >> Uh Taylor Wilson's grandmother is the. 11th person we need to thank in this. episode. Taylor Wilson being 10 and. Donald being number nine. >> Right. [laughter]. Nice work. Uh if you want to know more. about the nuclear or radioactive boy. scout David Han, there's a lot of stuff. out there. Um but you uh would be remiss. in not reading Ken Silverstein's um. article, at least if not his book on.

David Han. Uh and while you're looking. that up, we'll just go ahead and do. listener mail. All right, this is from Tiffany. Uh hey. guys, thank you for bringing back some. vivid memories from my eighth grade. reading class. uh too many decades ago. to admit, but my reading teacher was. also the social studies teacher. And I. [music] guess that explains why all of. our reading lists included Animal Farm, Hiroshima, All Quiet on the Western. Front, and [music] you know it, The. Jungle by Upton Sinclair. Uh to hammer. home what we read, he would incorporate. details of the book into a little.

imaginary coin toss he did each day to. determine whether the boys or girls got. to go first and uh walk to lunch and. single file line. For the weeks, we. discussed the jungle. It would sound. something like this. Today's menu. includes hot dogs. Call it in the air. Is it the rusty nail or the severed. finger? >> What a great teacher. >> Mhm. >> Uh, one day we noticed that half the. kids in the class had an addition of the. book that included this. Uh, and yes, I. still remember it decades later. Mary. had a little lamb and when she saw it.

sickening, she sent it off to the. packing town and now it's labeled. chicken. I was really hoping you guys had seen. this [music] so we could hear a. recitation during the podcast, but uh we. just did it right there, Tiffany. >> That's great. Yeah, we I didn't run. across that. >> I didn't either. That's a great ad. >> Yeah, thanks a lot, Tiffany. Uh that's a. great email and we appreciate it big. time. And hats off to your teacher, the. 13th person we need to thank in this. episode. You're number [laughter] 12,

Tiffany. >> Can we thank Jerry? >> Sure, why not? We'll go with 14. We. could thank ourselves [music] and just. bring it up to 16. a nice even number. >> Sweet 16. >> Uh we're going to make it 17 cuz we want. to thank you for listening and we want. to thank you in advance for getting in. touch with us via email at stuffodcast@. iheartradio.com. Stuff you should know is a production of. iHeart Radio. For more podcasts iHeart. Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple. Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your. favorite shows.