Squirrels, Ahoy! | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW

[music]. [bell]. >> Long time listeners of Stuff You Should. Know are well aware that I've come a. long way with my feelings on squirrels. Time was I saw them as a common pest who. invaded my bird feeders and made me see. red. But then along came my precious. four-legged [music] daughter Momo who. taught me to appreciate squirrels in. ways I never thought possible. Now Momo takes me and her mom to feed. the squirrels in the park every morning. and not a day goes by that I don't lift.

my gaze to the skies and thank Mother. Earth for our squirrel friends. Squirrels are great. Squirrels ahoy. Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a. production of iHeart Radio. >> [music]. >> Hey and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh. and there's Chuck and Jerry.

is here. And this is one of the greatest. episodes we'll ever do as far as I'm. concerned. Squirrels. All I really want is squirrels. I've. been singing [laughter] that all day. It's wonderful. That is so wonderful. It is. That song. isn't but you know. Uh yeah. Yeah, if you go back and listen. to Beastie Boys you're like, "Wow.". They've they've come a long way though. in pronouncing that stuff. Yeah, for. sure. Um so we're talking not about the. Beastie Boys surprisingly. We're talking.

about squirrels. In the morning it's. squirrels. Every evening it's squirrels. Squirrels, two syllables, right? I don't care. However you want to say. it, they're wonderful little beings. >> Sure. Or Boston I guess probably they say it. similarly as well. Yeah. But if you want to get fancy, you can. bust out their Latin name. They're. members of the rodent order but for. their family they're Sciuridae, Sciuridae. Nope. Sciuridae.

>> I looked this one up. All right. [laughter]. Sciuridae. I like mine more. Okay. Did you just. toot on my pronunciation? >> [laughter]. >> Yeah, even though it was correct. >> me a Bronx cheer? How how is it Sciuridae? Well, let me do the person online. Sciuridae. Okay. Is that Emma who said that? Or. Sciuridae was another but I think we've. heard from people that DAE is die.

Okay. And that's fine. If that's what it's called, I'm. just going to call them squirrels from. now on but there's actually like 300. species of squirrels. >> [clears throat]. >> And it's it's kind of hard to wrap your. head around. because usually if you live in a place. with squirrels, meaning you live on a. continent outside of Antarctica, Yeah, like everywhere basically. there're probably a lot of squirrels. living around you and they probably all. look basically exactly alike. Because it. seems like when they fill an ecological.

niche, brother, they fill it. And it. there's not much room for competing. species it seems like from my. experience. Yeah, I mean there are. Who helped us with this? Was this Ed? >> a Grabster. Yeah. So Grabster. points out that you know, you can find mountain squirrels and city. squirrels and forest squirrels and. jungle squirrels and desert squirrels. You can find squirrels in Alaska that.

hibernate with the the lowest body. temperature of any mammal. They have. body temperatures below freezing at. times. That's so cool. >> You can go to Africa and find one of the. cutest squirrels, the African pygmy. squirrel, Uh-huh. which is as small as a. tiny little mouse. Or you can go to. Bhutan and find the giant flying. squirrel of Bhutan that with their head. and body and. is is over 2 ft long with that tail. They're huge. No, 2 ft long without the.

tail. They're distressingly They're. distressingly large. Yeah, cuz the squirrel tail, we'll get. into this but that's one of their. signature features generally although. depending on the species because there. are 300 species like you said, more than. or almost 300. Some of those tails are a. little diminished but usually when you. think squirrel, you think of that big. bushy tail. Yeah, and and not only when. you think of squirrel you think of the. tail but the Greeks themselves. Right. [snorts] At the very least.

somebody decided that a Greek term would. make sense but Sciurios or Sciurios. which roughly means something like. shadow tail. Ed says shady butt. I also. saw shadow tail which is. a reference to how squirrels sometimes. hide in the shadow cast by their own. tail. It's pretty pretty clever. But the squirrel is usually kind of the. bushy tail of the squirrel is what makes. a squirrel a squirrel. One of the other. things that really differentiates it. from other rodents is the way that its. jaw and muscle are attached to its.

skull. There's actually a name for it. Sciuromorphous. zygomasseteric. system. Hey, look at you. Hooked on. phonics works for me. You even recorded the new pronunciation. That's right. You worked it right in. there with the Sciuridae. I adapted. >> [laughter]. >> Yeah, cuz you should have heard it. before when I was workshopping it. That. was the first take everybody. We're not. lying. So um. so those are two things that really kind. of differentiate squirrels. But as we've.

really. gotten better and better at at taxonomy. with the introduction of um. uh genome mapping, Sure. we can see. like, "Oh, this animal that doesn't look. anything like this animal is actually. really closely related." Mhm. And with. as with just about every other animal. we've studied using modern genetic um. taxonomy, um squirrels are our understanding of. squirrels has really kind of changed. shape of who's related to whom, uh who's.

descended from who, but there's. we're kind of going to go the old school. way which is differentiating them based. on their habitat and their behavior. So. there's three groups of squirrels that. we're going to cover even though there's. technically five subfamilies now. Ground. squirrels, tree squirrels, and flying. squirrels. And before we go any further, I officially dedicate this episode to. Momo, one of the great lovers of squirrels of. all time who changed changed me and my. heart.

>> Yeah. towards squirrels. I used to be a. squirrel hater, Chuck. Do you remember? >> Do you remember? >> Oh yeah, the bird feeder. Momo pointed. out to me. Said, "Dad, squirrels are. great. I'm going to teach you to love. them." And she did. Yeah, dogs and. squirrels. It's What was the Disney uh. It was either Pixar or Disney had that. animated. uh movie. where the dog would just stop and go, "Squirrel!". Anytime there's a squirrel. I can't. remember which one it was. I don't. remember. >> It wasn't that long ago.

Uh but before we move on to ground. squirrels, it is kind of fun to learn that because. of that DNA uh analysis that we now have. at our fingertips and fossil evidence, we know that squirrels uh went to. western North America 35 to 40 million. years ago Mhm. because squirrels like to. get around as we will see. They crossed. a land bridge to Eurasia about 10. million years after that. And then as. soon as they could, as soon as Eurasia. met up with Africa about 20 million.

years ago, they went, "All right, we're. in Africa now, too." because squirrels. like to get around. They as you will. see, um well, we'll just tease that and. say squirrels like to get around. Yeah, I mean you put one tree next to another, squirrel's going to go from tree to. tree. Put another [laughter] tree, squirrel's going to go to the next tree. If you put trees all the way across one. continent to another, they're going to. migrate. That's just what they do and. that's what they did. But if I thought I. loved squirrels before, now that I know. that they're actually native from 35.

million years back to North America, >> Yeah. I just think that's that's just. the tops. Yeah, and we talked about it. before when you were. having your bird feeder issue but you. know, Atlanta is a city in the forest. and. >> Mhm. we have tons and tons and tons of. squirrels. Kind of everywhere along the. East Coast does but Atlanta just has a. lot of squirrels and as I was reading. you know, from my upstairs office, Mhm. >> there's a window not right in front of. my face but sort of above me. and our huge big beautiful oak in our.

front yard, I'm doing this on squirrels. Yeah. >> look up for a second and I see four. squirrels running around that tree. together playing. like circling it like a barber pole. Yeah. I take my daughter to school this. morning and I count the squirrels that I. see on the way. I counted 22 squirrels. that I just saw on a you know, 12-minute. car ride. You hit one of them. >> There. I have before. It's the worst thing. ever. >> It is the worst. Uh but they're. everywhere in Atlanta and it hit me.

a while ago. about how easy it is living here just to. or anywhere where there's a lot of. squirrels, Mhm. just to sort of be like, "Yeah, the squirrels." But it kind of. hit me like how crazy it is that there. are these little mammals. They're not. hiding in holes generally like mice and. stuff like that. Yeah. >> Like they're just out all over the place. at all times. We're surrounded like by. these little mammals. Yeah, out and. proud. And if you come close too close. to one of their trees when you're.

walking by and the squirrel doesn't like. it, he's going to sit there or she. and chatter at you and basically tell. you to beat it, you punk. Yeah. >> from my tree. That's how that's one of. the great lovable things about. squirrels. They have such huge. personalities. They're just so great, Chuck. >> I got to say remember my famous squirrel. attack not too long ago. Uh. >> When I when I went outside on my got it. on my doorbell camera Yeah. >> squirrel leapt through the air and hit. me in the leg. Uh it was a complete accident of course. I don't think the squirrel was trying to. kill me, but.

>> You don't know. They're just they're all. over the place. We're going to get to all the fun stuff. about the the black squirrels of New. York and why squirrels stop in the. middle of the road when they go to cross. the street. Like they're We found. reasons for all this stuff, which I. love. It's not that squirrels are dumb. and we're going to reveal all that in. this episode. Okay, I'm a little excited. I'm a little. worked up. I know it's a tad early, but. I say we take our first break, okay? We. are so squirrel positive that I mean. That's a great way to put it, Chuck. All.

right, so are we taking a break? I say. All right, I need to calm down, too. And I guarantee you I'm going to go. like blow my nose in the other room. I'm. going to see a squirrel. I'll be right back. >> [music].

>> All right, Chuck. So, as promised, we're. going to break squirrels down into three. groups: ground, tree, uh, flying, or aerial. Mhm. Um, and I I propose that. we start with the ground squirrel. Sure. Many, uh, species of which you probably, not you, but I mean you, dear listener, and me I'll include, too, Mhm. uh, didn't realize were actual squirrels. Like groundhog. Groundhog, Chuck? >> Mhm. Did not know that was a squirrel. Chipmunk?

I had a feeling that might have been a. squirrel. Gosh, they're so great, too. >> Yeah, I love chipmunks. What about a, uh, groundhog? You already said groundhog. Did I? Yeah. >> [laughter]. >> Okay. Well, I'm just. >> the list of four things. I'm swirling. I'm swirling still and my love of. squirrels prairie dog. Yeah, well, that's what was coming out of my mouth. next, a prairie dog. >> prairie dog. Didn't know that. What. about that? Meerkat? I didn't know that. Well, that's cuz they're not, but. >> Oh. Okay. Prairie dogs, chipmunks, and.

um, what was the other one I said? >> Marmots? Yeah, marmots. I hadn't brought them in. and groundhogs. Those are all ground. squirrels. They're squirrels, friends. Um, and that makes them pretty awesome. But one of the reasons why they you. wouldn't think they're squirrels is. because. in a lot of those species, they lack. that characteristic bushy tail. Yeah. But then also, they, uh, live a almost a totally different life. from their tree-dwelling more famous. cousins. Yeah, I mean, they might climb. a tree,

but generally, you're not going to see a. groundhog or prairie dog up in the tree. If they need If they need to, you know, for a brief time, uh, if they're trying to find food or. something or. uh, like on the run from something. trying to kill it, they might go up in a. tree. But they generally hang out on the. ground, hence the name. Yeah. They love. their rocky terrain. Uh, chipmunks, for speaking for them, are. pretty solitary, unless they're trying. to reproduce. Yeah. But, uh, I know that. you found some stuff. Was it on the. prairie dogs that that have their big.

families and colonies? Yeah, I mean, that's one of the main characteristics. of of ground squirrels in general, aside. from a couple, but that they're much. more communal than tree squirrels. And. in particular, the largest, um, town, a. prairie dog town is what they're called. The largest prairie dog town on record. is in Texas, because of course. everything's bigger there. But it was a. colony of black-tailed prairie dogs. And this town, Chuck, stretched 100. miles wide Wow. by 250 miles long and.

contained 400 million prairie dogs. My. gosh. Again, ground squirrels, all. living in this kind of large community. Geez. I mean, that's like It's like a Chinese. mega city or something like that times. 10. Yeah. So, are these the ones that. tend to stay, uh, grouped with their own. sex? Uh, no. Those tend to be either tree. squirrels or flying squirrels. These are. more the the the, um, because they live.

in in communal groups and kinship is a. big deal, uh, ground squirrels, like. prairie dogs, tend to have, uh, really. good ability to scent to smell the scent. of other uh, ground squirrels, so they. can tell like who's a blood relation, who's not. And they've done studies to. see, you know, if a like if a ground. squirrel they have a lot of really. sophisticated calls, too, because. they're alerting others to the presence. of a rattlesnake or a hawk or something. So, they're really talkative and they.

they have a lot of, uh, sophisticated. different communication. Um, and they. found that a a like a prairie dog that. will stand up and and take the time to. risk its own life to alert others, it's. actually alerting the others that it's. alerting are actually related by blood. And the the groundhog or the prairie dog. knows this because it can smell its. blood relations among all these other, you know, extended family members in the. town. There's not much cuter than a. squirrel sitting up on its rear.

haunches. Yeah. Uh, whether it's I mean, obviously those prairie dogs, you know, they do it for a living, but uh, even. our eastern gray squirrels sit up on. those back legs if they want to. >> Yeah. work a a nut with their little. front paw pads. Yeah, or a chipmunk on. its back legs. It. doesn't get much cuter than that. >> hands, goodness me. Yeah. All right, so. we can move on to our tree squirrel. This is uh, they're known as, uh, arboreal squirrels, obviously, because. they are tree squirrels. And this is. when you're talking your eastern gray.

squirrel. This is not a groundhog. This is not a. prairie dog. This is your. dyed-in-the-wool. cute little fluffy-tailed sort of, you. know, they're called gray, but they're. sort of a light brownish color. generally, although the colors do range, as we'll see. Mhm. Uh, and these are the. ones that you're going to find all over. Atlanta, jumping around, climbing. around, leaping at podcasters. And. they're uh, front lawn. Yeah. Uh, they spend most of the time,

uh, I mean, you see them on the ground. plenty, but they live in trees. They. nest in trees, uh, called drays or, uh, drays or drays, spelled with an e and a. Right. Um, and you probably, if you've ever. looked up and seen a mass of like sticks. and twigs in a. leafless tree in the middle of winter, you're looking at a squirrel's nest. called a dray. Um, and this is where you were you were. asking about them, um, staying in like. same-sex groups. >> Mhm. Apparently, in the winter, um, even. though the the tree squirrel does not.

live in a communal society like a ground. squirrel does, it's they're still. social. They still interact with one. another. They play, they chase, they. chase one another off, they like mate. Um, but when it gets really cold, uh, tree squirrels will, um, kind of group. their heat together by staying in a dray. communally, up to like 30 members. Yeah. It's adorable. Yeah, it is very. adorable. I I want to do a little. exercise here real quick, Chuck. Okay.

Um, I want you to use your imagination. >> Mhm. My eyes are closed. Imagine a a very. cold winter day. The wind's blowing. >> Mhm. Snow's being carried on the wind. Mhm. And it's passing by just outside a. woodpecker hole. Okay. >> And we're inside that woodpecker hole. now. >> I love it. It's dark. The light is very, very faint because it's it's a kind of. an overcast snowy day to begin with, but. we're also inside a tree in an old. woodpecker hole. And it's lined with a. bunch of different leaves. And there's. half a dozen or so squirrels all kind of.

snuggled together, >> [clears throat]. >> sleeping, sharing their warmth as the. winter day passes by outside and they. snooze an afternoon away, fat on acorns. that they all just ate. Oh, boy. Isn't. that amazing? I almost fell asleep. You're real Robert Frost, my friend. Thank you. Thank you. >> That was something else. >> [laughter]. >> I like to think Robert Redford crossed. with Robert Frost, but sure. Well, you know, Robert Redford if you. look in the mirror, but Robert Frost. when you pick a pen up. With a touch of. Robert Goulet. If you sang it, surely.

Uh, oh, man, that really did almost put. me to sleep. Um, that's quite nice. I. love that scene. So, here's a little fun. adaptation that squirrels have. If you. see a tree squirrel running. down a tree face first Mhm. with, uh, with little, uh, resistance. It just like it was made to. do it. It's because it is. Yeah. And. they have those little claws, of course, that really helps. But if you look. closely, uh, or if you look up a picture, rather, and. you see like a still image, you will.

notice that they have the ability to And. Ed says they can turn their feet around. They really kind of just turn their. whole back legs around backwards Yeah. to where those claws are gripping on the. way down. And that's why they're, you. know, it's like a the perfect adaptation. to be able to run up and down a tree. So, um, have you ever watched one do that up. close? Sure. So, anytime I've seen that, there if you. look their legs, because they're turned. around, it kicks kind of their elbows.

out a little bit. >> Uh-huh. And though they climb down, it. looks a little different. And I've. noticed that it triggers the part of my. lizard brain that's like a spider alert. Uh-huh. That comes with that it's that's. triggered by that. So, and it's like a. giant furry spider is coming down to. some little part of my brain that sends. off an alarm. And it's really. off-putting sometimes until I, >> know, Uh-huh. larger part, the executive. functioning part of my brain is like, "It's a squirrel. Don't worry." But. there's that one just zap of like, "This.

is weird and scary." for a second. But. it happens to me from time to time when. they come down the the the tree like. that. Well, it can be a little. startling, you know, if you're going to. take out the trash or something and your. trash can is next to a big live oak like. ours is and you and there are two or. more squirrels that are. they seem like I don't know what they're. doing. They seem like they a beef with. one another, but maybe they're just. playing chase, but when they're really. boogieing up and down and around a tree. right as you walk up on it is it can be. a little bit like oh, okay.

I read that when one was chasing the. other it's a part of the mating ritual. Oh, okay. So, that's that's. embarrassing for them. >> [laughter]. >> Right. I don't I don't know if that's. across the board, but I saw that in at. least one place. >> All right, I like knowing that. Um. here's another cool thing about. squirrels. They have all kinds of. squirrels have scent glands and it. depends on the species where that scent. gland is located. It can be. uh near their little bum hole. It can be. near their mouth in the corners of their. mouth. Uh can be on their back, but in the case.

of the tree squirrel. um they have their scent glands on their. feet and sweat glands on the bottom of. their feet and they are a squirrel that. buries their. uh their food over large large area. sometimes like up to 25 acres. uh can be their habitat where they're. burying and hiding food and they are. literally every time they walk to bury. something they're leaving a little scent. trail that they can go back and pick up. ideally, uh but it's not a perfect system. Sometimes they will lose stuff and not.

be able to go back, but what they have. then done is planted a tree. Yeah, which brings up their huge. ecological role um which is like. planting new forests like keeping. forests healthy by forgetting about nuts. and that nut is actually a seed and it. grows into a new tree that the squirrel. helped move away from the tree expanding. its range. They're known as the. gardeners of the forest. Yeah, and we. talked we did a whole short stuff on. squirrels burying nuts and I remember. one of the things that came up was um.

there was a study that found that if. they if they know they're being watched. by another squirrel, they'll fake dig a. hole and they won't drop the nut in it. and then will go somewhere else and. mislead a squirrel that they think is. watching them. Yeah, they'll look around. first and be like did anyone see that? Yeah. I think I'm good. >> Todd was watching. I better not drop the. nut in this hole. He he'll come along. Uh so, that's what the the the I'm sorry. not the flying, but the the tree. squirrels, that's how they use their. scent. The ground squirrels we should. say uh mainly use their scent glands to.

mark their territory and you know, because they're all about their clan or. their colony to sort of mark their. territory and find out if someone is a. part of their clan. Yeah, and then also um as far as scents. go I saw some somewhere that some kinds. of ground squirrels that are preyed to. rattlesnakes will actually find shed. rattlesnake skin and rub it on. themselves. They'll chew it up and rub. it on themselves to give themselves a. rattlesnake scent to throw off. rattlesnakes. They camouflage their.

scent. >> That's pretty cool. Yeah. I wonder if they ever wear it and just. like fashion a couple of holes and stick. their arms through. Yeah, and they brag. that they killed it. Have you Oh man, I shouldn't even. mention this. Yeah, I'm going to mention. it. Have you cuz it is it is roadkill, but. have you ever seen the pictures of. the squirrel roadkill with the little GI. Joe action figures? No. Just. look it up. I I can. they aren't squirrels that someone.

killed. It's it's someone will take a. roadkill picture of a squirrel and. they'll take the little GI Joe figures. as if they were big game hunters. and they'll have their guns and they'll. have like one leg up on the squirrel's. head Uh-huh. as if it was their trophy. and it the squirrel looks positively. giant next to the little action figures. and it's kind of funny. I'll have to. check that one out. I don't want to. encourage people. Maybe I shouldn't have. even said anything. Well, I don't know. if you're encouraging people to like. swerve onto a squirrel, you know. There's probably just that one guy. or. kill a squirrel to do that, but maybe.

just look it up on the internet if you. want to see that. Don't recreate it. If. you kill a squirrel and we find out. about it, we're coming to your house. I. know. Okay. With the ghost of that squirrel. Yeah. They'll introduce to your attic. So, have we moved on to flying squirrels. yet? Yeah. Let's do it. Those are you. know, the old story when we had one. growing up for a little while. Uh you probably don't remember, but my. uncle gave us his flying squirrel to. watch for a while and he would leap from.

the curtains on the other side of the. room onto my shoulder and then when we. went out of town apparently they said. the squirrel got out, but now that I'm. adult I realize that the cat ate the. squirrel. Oh man. Yeah, just to recap that. childhood drama. That's wow. Okay. But for a little while we had a a. flying squirrel in our home. >> [laughter]. >> For a brief shining moment. >> upshot. So, a flying squirrel I I and I thought. this I thought they were fairly rare. Um. apparently they're as common as tree.

squirrels in some places. The reason. that you think they're rare is because. they're nocturnal. So, we're usually. sleeping when they're out and about. >> I love thinking about those things just. flying around all night. Yeah, and. flying is right, man. I saw um Ed says. that they glide up to 150 ft. I saw 300. in some cases. >> Wow. And that's what they're doing. They're. gliding. They're not flying. They have. no means of like propulsion, but they. have a skin flap. They've evolved a skin. flap that is um you know, the bat suit.

that people like you know, skydive with. That's that is based basically 100% on. the the flying squirrel's membranes. between its um. front legs and and hind legs um that it. can you know, spread out when it jumps. and it just catches the air and they can. move it this way and that and use their. tail as a rudder and go 150 ft in a. pretty purposeful direction, too. Did. you say what the name of the flap was? No. Do you want to?

No, I'd probably screw it up. >> [laughter]. >> I'm going to go with uh patagium. That's great. I wonder what they call. that with the. >> [laughter]. >> I wonder what they call that in the uh. in the. flying suit biz. Extreme flying suit. biz. I don't know. And I think they call. them bat suits, but that's that's a. misnomer if you ask me. Those I got to. say I mean I'm not into any of that. stuff. I would never do it, but those. videos are amazing and it's Oh, I know. as close as humans have come I think to.

flying it feels like. Agreed. I yeah, I would have to have. probably a lobotomy to to actually try. that. It would take that radical of a. personality change for me to try. Well, and I mean sure that kind of thing. that's the most extreme like years and. years of training. Yeah, skydiving. training and stuff like that. You don't. just jump into a bat suit. No, no, no, definitely not, but even if you do, you. know, once you get to that point like I. can't imagine how dangerous that is, you. know, if you smack into something you're.

going. really fast. >> You're toast. Yeah. And that happens. sadly. But I get the impression that it's the. the rush is worth the risk. That's right. Uh and speaking of risk there are. endangered flying squirrels uh the. Carolina northern flying squirrel and we. talked a little bit about these little. land bridges that are starting to pop up. in the United States over overpasses and. and freeway crossings. And I just read today there's one in in.

LA that's opening up. that's like 160 ft wide. I can't. remember the name of it. It's named. after someone. And to allow uh cougars and you know, mountain lions to pass and all kinds of. animals. And. they're using you know, they have done. studies. uh for squirrels and that they found. tagged like radio tagged squirrels. are foraging and building on the other. side of these massive freeways thanks to. these bridges. Like it's been proven to. work. Yeah, for sure.

I think it's called the Robert Evans. Memorial Animal Land Bridge. Baby. >> [laughter]. [snorts]. >> Yeah, if only. So, um that actually kind of leads us to. a quote I ran across, Chuck. Um because. if you put like I was saying if you can. kind of connect your tree to another. tree, which really ties into that. rewilding episode because you're you're. using you're connecting core to core via. corridor basically is what what they're. doing with that. Um.

that there was an old saying that before. not too long ago, I think in the end of. the 18th century maybe even early 19th. century that there was so many chestnut. trees in the in North America that a. squirrel could make it from Maine to. Georgia without ever touching the. ground. Yeah, what did we cover that in? Was it I I don't remember. I remember. that factoid. That's a great one. So, um it. it really kind of goes to show like. there there used to be a lot more forest. in the United States, but there were.

also a lot more squirrels because. there's a there's a positive correlation. between mast producing trees, which are. chestnut, beech, oak, um trees that. produce nuts that squirrels and other. forest animals eat um and the number and. population density of squirrels in an. area. You have a lot of mast producing. trees, you're going to have a lot of. squirrels because again, they fill their. ecological niche to basically bursting.

Yeah, and they you know, bursting with. food because. they are opportunistic eaters is what Ed. Ed says and that's a pretty good way to. say it because while they. well obviously if they can get fruit or. nuts and seeds, that's. the stock of their diet. But they will. eat whatever keeps them alive. They will. eat insects and fungus and they actually. spread fungus, which is great. Uh they eat roots. They have they have. found little tiny eggs and little tiny. birds and little tiny lizards in the.

guts of squirrels. Ew. Uh so, they you. know, technically are omnivores. um which is just to say squirrels are. remarkable at staying alive and they. will eat your garbage. They will eat. whatever they need to, but that's only. if they're not finding the nuts and the. seeds and stuff like that which there. are generally plenty plenty of in the. United States. And one reason that. they're they're suited for nuts or that. nuts are suited for them is because they. have two sets of incisors. I believe it.

up and a down is the technical term. And. they grow constantly throughout their. lifetime. I think they grow something. like Is this even possible now I'm. seeing it 6 in a year? Well, I mean they're constantly grinding. them down so I think if a squirrel was. in a coma they could have 6 in fang. That's crazy and then apparently if they. don't continuously grind them down and. they kept growing they would grow. through the top and the bottom of their. face all a Lisa Simpson that time she.

needed braces. >> [laughter]. >> But that's crazy. So they they use these. very very hard nuts like a chestnut or. pecan or walnut shell to impart as it's. it's a food source but as they're. getting to the food source they're. keeping their teeth ground down which. apparently they have to do all the time. That's pretty amazing. Squirrels also. like a little sweet treat every now and. then. They have found red squirrels in Maine. that will tap sugar maple trees. They. make little bite marks in the tree and. then they just say all right do your.

thing and they come back a few days. later and that trap has. hardened up and run out a little bit and. that is just a a little tiny sweet treat. for a squirrel. That's right. It's. pretty awesome. They also found that. squirrels can learn by observing other. squirrels doing something particularly. finding new ways to get food. They're adept at that. Okay, so they see. Todd doing something. and they say not a bad idea. Let's give. that a shot. Yeah, that Todd really came. around. Yeah, and if you'll notice I.

think we kind of skipped over this. If. we didn't mention Australia. squirrels I think used to be in. Australia but aren't so much now. And is it a mystery or is it just the. obvious that the Australians were like. soups on mate? I don't know. I didn't. see that anywhere but I know that they. introduced the Eastern Grey. and then in Perth they introduced the. Indian Palm which is like if you mash. together an Eastern Grey squirrel and a. chipmunk that it would be an Indian Palm. squirrel.

But apparently they both died out. I. don't know if it's a mystery or not like. you're saying but supposedly there's. some feral colonies that escaped from. zoos at least in Perth. So there are. wild squirrels in Australia but they. were introduced in the 19th century. which is actually a trend as we'll see. but I I say before we we tackle all that. we take a break. How about that? All. right, we'll we'll take the break and. we'll talk about squirrel migration. right after this. >> [music].

[music]. >> Okay Chuck so as I was saying like back. before pre-colonial days in particular. but also even into the 19th century I. think even the 1960s there were reports. of massive numbers of squirrels.

basically stampeding. Yeah. They call them squirrel migrations and. they have been documented enough times. that that's it's not an anomaly but they. are fairly rare. And today they've kind. of figured out that there aren't dense. enough populations of squirrels to ever. have a genuine like squirrel stampede. like they had before but there there. used to be so many of them that every. once in a while thousands to tens of. thousands to tens to tens of thousands. of squirrels would pass.

generally in like a big wave over an. area and apparently it was quite a thing. to see. I imagine it was and this happened. because. uh. there would just be a really big. fruitful year for squirrel food a tons. of availability. and they would you know they would boom. in numbers cuz they go to where the food. is and usually if that is followed by. or I guess historically when that was. followed by a really bad year. like the rain you know didn't work out.

so great for producing nuts and seeds. and stuff and fruit that all of a sudden. you've got a ton of squirrels in an area. that are all looking around going. what's the deal? And they're opportunist so they said all. right we're getting out of here. We're. going to where the food is. Let's go everybody. >> [laughter]. >> And they would do it all at once. Yeah, all at once for some reason and so these. migrations they would be. they'd be running through the forest. They'd be running across fields. They'd. be swimming across rivers and apparently.

in at least one account I saw. they would be gulped up by bass in the. rivers and I can't imagine seeing. anything worse than a squirrel being. eaten by a fish. >> [laughter]. >> That seems unnatural. Yeah, but there. were so many of them and this is also at. a time where squirrels were roundly. among basically everyone living in. America viewed as vermin as. invaders as things that were unwanted. but also a tasty food source too. So. anytime there was a squirrel stampede.

the yokels would run out with their. sticks and bags and beat squirrels to. death and then cook them and sell their. pelts and do all sorts of things with. them. And one of the reasons why they. were viewed as vermin Chuck is because. on these squirrel migrations and other. times where there were just you know if. you were unlucky with your planting. those squirrels might see as a food. source the crops you just planted all. those seeds and would dig them up and. ruin your year's crops in a day or so. So. people didn't like squirrels for a very. long time and this idea of squirrels.

being everywhere these little mammals. living among us like you were talking. about earlier. that's fairly new and that's actually. very deliberate and purposeful because. squirrels were basically gone. up until about the mid to late 19th. century in America. Yeah, I mean between. being hunted because people hated them. on their farms like you said people and. people still and like generally in. certain parts of like Appalachia. still eat squirrel on the menu. It is a.

little gamey from what I'm told. I'm. never going to eat a squirrel but they. still use pelts but that kind of you. know just like they would eat any larger. mammal and use their pelts they would. just get crafty with you know as as. small as a squirrel. and certainly in times of. you know real need. you know small rodents would come in. handy on the menu back then. But. they were almost gone. We started. growing more urban in the 1800s. obviously and they were killing.

squirrels as fast as they could and in. the 1840s and 50s there were so few. squirrels that they were. introduced to city parks. but not many at first. They were just. like this weird curiosity where you. would go out kind of like bird watching. and you would like try to spot a. squirrel running around cuz it was such. a novel thing. But then by the time. Frederick Law Olmsted who by the way. deserves his own podcast. came along and really introduced the. idea of these really large city parks.

and urban parks. they introduced a lot of squirrels to. these parks and they really really like. that's kind of why we have the squirrels. we have today was from this movement to. reintroduce them in in a big way to. urban parks. Yeah, and I mean we talked. kind of a lot about that whole idea in. our Central Park episode. This idea that. you know they just kept building the. city and building the city and building. city and people started going crazy. because there weren't green spaces so. that it that brought the parks in and. then the the idea of adding animals to.

the park just to kind of naturalize it. even more. That squirrels played a huge. role in that. And not only you know in Central Park. but also it started out in I believe. Philadelphia and then followed by Boston. and. so by the the mid to late 19th century. that's when squirrels started to. reestablish themselves and the way that. people saw squirrels started to change. too. And there was this idea that. they weren't vermin anymore. Don't shoot.

them. Please try not to hit them with. the stick. Instead let's go to the park. spend some time outside and bring some. nuts with you and maybe feed the. squirrels. And not only you feed the. squirrels but you got a little kid that. little kid wants to hit that squirrel. with the stick so bad cuz kids are are. awful like that. >> Good luck. You can actually use. squirrels feeding squirrels as a way to. teach kids to have compassion to be. upstanding morally to have charity. And. that was kind of how the the whole.

interaction between humans and squirrels. was kind of framed around that time like. the late 19th early 20th century. Yeah, the Boy Scout co-founder Ernest Thompson. Seton. said that squirrels and introducing them. to boys in general would say would cure. them of their tendency toward cruelty. But I said good luck a second ago. How. do you hit a I mean I guess if there's a. stampede but you show me a kid that can. get a squirrel and hit it with a stick. And that's [snorts] a future Olympian.

Sure. There's no way. Those things are. so fast. But don't try to do it kids. Definitely. >> No, don't even practice that. Don't try. to qualify for the Olympics in that cuz. you'll show up to the Olympics they'll. be like we don't we don't have that. >> [laughter]. >> That's not our one of our sports. You. what do you think this is Australia? So these days you know we've kind of. come full circle. into just sort of letting squirrels be. There are you know if you're a hunter in. the United States.

it and. it may be the tradition in your family. if you live out in the country to start. off. your child with hunting squirrels with a. little 22 rifle or something to as. practice to teach young hunters. I'm certainly not into that, but I'm not. going to judge you if that's your thing. And like I said, people still do eat. squirrel in certain parts of the United. States today. Um. I guess we can talk I mean we found a. lot of extra fun stuff. Well, well let's talk about so we were.

talking about how they're viewed in. America. There depending on where you are in the. world and depending on the squirrel. you're talking about, they're actually. they can be viewed quite negatively. I remember in our rewilding episode we. talked about how Eastern gray squirrels. are considered an invasive species in. Italy. Um where they call them American killer. squirrels. Um and there's also an issue with. Eastern gray squirrels in Europe where. they've killed off most of the Eurasian. red squirrels over there. Oh, that's.

true. >> Um because they've just out competed. them. It's not like they've, you know, choked them or anything like that. They. they just [laughter] they're like almost. twice as big. They're a lot more ornery. and they've just kind of diminished the. the number of um of Eurasian red. squirrels in the UK so much so that. three quarters of the population lives. in Scotland. And I would just like to. direct everybody to the um Scottish. squirrels website. Go to. scottishsquirrels.org.uk.

and this is very important {slash}. about. And on their about page the. header image is maybe the cutest. squirrel you'll ever see in your entire. life. >> Is that the one you sent me and Jerry? Yes. Isn't that the cutest squirrel ever? It's pretty cute. You also sent. something else. If you go to. rspca.org.uk. {slash} advice and welfare {slash}. wildlife {slash} animals {slash} gray. squirrels {slash} feeding [snorts]. or you could just Google feeding.

squirrels and using nest boxes. You're. going to see a squirrel with a chicken. wing in its mouth. >> [laughter]. >> That's pretty cute. >> It's better than a bass eating a. squirrel. I'll tell you that. Uh yeah, that's a good article you sent. because it talks about if you like. squirrels around, which I certainly do, creating a good habitat for them. Uh trees obviously is a good thing to. have. Not cutting down trees is a great. thing to do if you can avoid it. Yeah. Uh and then having squirrel safe bird. feeders. and this means not that the squirrels.

can't get to that seed cuz they as you. have attested, they will find a way. Life finds a way. Right. But that it. don't won't trap the squirrel inside of. it. No, that's not the big one, too. They also kind of get into. they get all Macbeth or Hamlet. Which one was to be or not to be? Why are you asking me this? It's putting. me on the spot. >> all Hamlet or Macbeth on whether or not. to feed squirrels. There you [laughter] go. Um so they're they're like you could.

feed squirrels, but really you. shouldn't. And the RSPCA takes I think a. pretty sensible tact, which is. build a habitat for the squirrels and. that you're planting the right kind of. the trees that provide a place for them. to nest and a place for them to get food. and then just step back and enjoy them. That should be enough. If you're like, you know, me and Mo and you go on walks. or whatever and you want to feed the. squirrels, there are some things that. are better for squirrels than others. And it's basically you want to give them. what they would naturally eat. Um which. is mast unshelled nuts like walnuts,

chestnuts, acorns, hazelnuts, that kind. of thing. >> Safflower seeds probably, huh? Yes, but not black safflower seeds. I. saw that if you were one of those people. who can't stand squirrels raiding your. um bird feeder, black safflower seeds. are they'll eat them, but they're not. crazy about them and most birds like. them instead. So that's one way to do. it. But you can also feed them. vegetables, too. And Chuck, they. included this little tip that I didn't. realize, but if you if you're feeding.

squirrels or leaving food out for. squirrels in your yard and you have a. garden that you care about, you don't. really want the squirrel taking the food. and then burying it elsewhere. So they. said if you're going to feed them fruits. and vegetables, shred it because it it. the squirrel is going to eat it there. It's not going to try to bury it. I. thought that was smart. Yeah, and if you. have the nuts, don't give them like. honey roasted. almonds like unsweetened unsalted stuff. Uh I have set up, you know, I have a. camp cam at the family camp. Mhm. Uh. trail cam and it's it's keyed in on my.

deer feeder that I got which is corn. And I've seen one deer, but almost every. night I have scores of raccoons. Nice. And almost every day, well, every day, I. have squirrels, crows, and now. daily turkeys visiting. Oh, neat. >> Lots and lots of turkeys. So. I don't care that the deer aren't. visiting. It's all kinds of animals are. coming around. It's always fun to watch. on the camp cam. That is very cool. One. thing you want to be careful with with.

peanuts, too, is giving them raw peanuts. because peanuts can carry an aflatoxin, which is very it's not good. It's not. good for squirrels. It's not good for. humans, either. It's a type of. fungus I think that actually is not only. carcinogen carcinogen, it can actually. like just kill you on on the spot. neurologically speaking. So it you actually want roasted peanuts, but not salted or anything like that. So. raw like plain roasted peanuts. Or.

what's even better because it helps with. their teeth are mast nuts again like. pecans, walnuts, that kind of stuff. But. a lot of people say don't feed squirrels. because you're actually what you're. doing is as we've seen, if squirrels. know that there's a lot of food, they're. going to mate mate mate mate mate and. there's going to be a lot of squirrels. and they're going to become dependent on. that additional food supply. Yeah. Um. and they might start showing up at your. neighbor's house. They might start. burrowing into your attic. There's just. a lot of. there's a lot of things that to to take.

into consideration, I guess. Yeah, well, at the family camp there's nothing but. woods, so I hope we get overrun. So I agree with you. So you found a. couple of the cool things including why. squirrels like seem to dash in front of. your car when you're driving, right? Yeah, so and and again, I love that. we've just finally found answers for. this stuff cuz this is kind of. a fun non-obnoxious fact to jump on to. drop on someone if you're driving around.

a neighborhood and the squirrel does. that thing and people go why do. squirrels do that? We can say well, [snorts] it's actually an evolutionary. instinct to get away from a predator. So. if you run out and you initially freeze. when there's a predator. the predator is sort of like a football. player waiting for the defensive player. to make their move. and then you go the opposite way with a. little juke. And that's what the. squirrel's doing. They go out, they. freeze when they see that car. and if it was a predator, they would.

wait on the predator to sort of make a. move and then they can quickly go in a. direction. that is really comes in handy when it's. a predator. When it's a car that's. going, you know, generally in a big. hulking straight line Right. it's not. the same thing, but a squirrel has a. squirrel brain and it doesn't realize. that. So that's why a squirrel will jump. out in a street, see a car, and just. stop. They're not dumb. They're waiting on you to make some. hawk-like move. which doesn't happen in the car. So what. you do is you just slow down and check.

your rearview mirror. Don't slam on the. brakes or anything, but. you know, they're everywhere and I've. hit. I think maybe two squirrels in my adult. life. Uh-huh. So it's not like the most. common thing to run over a squirrel. Yeah, I ran over one once and my. brother-in-law said that he was on his. way to buy a birthday present for his. young kid who was waiting forever for. their dad to come back with his birthday. present for his party. Ugh. It was not. helpful. >> [laughter]. >> Uh and what about these black squirrels?

Emily and I. were taking a walk through Brooklyn one. day and. saw a black black black squirrel, not. just a hint of black. And it was the. coolest thing I've ever seen and I've. since seen a few more here and there in. New York and we have the answer there, too, right? Yes. Uh they seem to be so they they used to. think that they were freaks of nature. I. think is one. naturalist put it like years and years. ago and somebody said I don't know if.

that's true. I think these actually. might have been the dominant version. Uh they they seem to be closely related. to Eastern grays if not just a type of. Eastern gray like a different breed of. that species. Um but they they were saying they used. to possibly be the dominant version and. then they got edged out by the Eastern. gray. And so there there's they're there. they're just kind of. infrequently they infrequently appear, but there are parts of. North America where they seem to. populate more than others like New York.

You me and I used to see them in DC, Toronto. They're all over Toronto. and Ontario in general from what I. understand. So it seems like from what I. could tell that they think that they're. they were there already and now we're. just kind of seeing them in like this. kind of moment in time where their. numbers have diminished tremendously. where if we went back in time, we might. see a lot more. Is that does that seem. accurate? Yeah, I mean it it's just. genetics. It's a recessive gene that. causes an abnormal pigmentation.

and you will, you know, you're you're. only going to get more of that recessive. gene if these squirrels or any. you know, creature is reproducing in a. in a smaller area. So if you've got a. contained population like let's say an. island like New York or apparently. Roosevelt Island has a lot of them. Yeah. You're just going to see more of. them. So. DC is a little not inexplicable, but it. makes more sense in New York because.

you're just going to get more, you know, more of this recessive gene happening. Mhm. In a small area. So not at all my. explanation then. No, it's your. explanation. >> [snorts]. >> No, you nailed it. And this was an. article the mysterious black squirrels. of NYC from. what turns out to be a really good. website called untappcities.com. and writer Michelle Young. It's it's. really cool read. Um yeah. So you got anything else on squirrels? Nothing. And hug a squirrel. Embrace a.

squirrel. But but don't do that. Don't and if you. do feed them don't don't let them eat. out of your hand. Cuz they'll bite you even though they're. grateful they're still bitey. And since I said that everybody it's. time for listener mail. That's right and it's a great listener. mail because we get to say hello to a. kindergarten class which is always fun. Hello. >> [laughter]. >> Hi Mr. Chuck and Mr. Josh.

My name is Katie. It's either Fink or Finky and I'm. emailing with my kindergarten class in. Baltimore City. We sometimes listen to. your show and we were so excited when we. heard you mention the three sisters. >> [music]. >> in the recent watermelon episode. We. actually spent a whole week and learning. about the three sisters this fall and. wanted to share with you our excitement. We hope you do a short stuff on them. soon. We definitely will. If you need some three sisters experts. who want to. tell you these facts that we learned. this year. Oh yes. And here's [music] a.

little short list. Native Americans. would plant fish first in the ground to. prepare the soil and make it healthy and. rich. Love that. The corn grows so tall holds up the. beans. and the squash keeps the soil moist so. the other two sisters have enough water. to stay hydrated and finally all three. of the sisters are dried so that people. can save them to eat later in the winter. which is a great benefit. So. we really want to share our knowledge in. case you do a short stuff. Thanks for. reading. Love Miss Finky's or Miss.

Fink's kindergarten class. And like I said this is in Baltimore. City. Man that's [music] really impressive. Like I remember in kindergarten I was. learning. red. >> [laughter]. >> Red. Red. I wasn't learning about the three. sisters and ground covers like keeping. the moisture in place for the other two. I mean come on that's really impressive. >> [laughter]. >> This week red.

I think it was more like that month. Yeah. February is red month. Oh that's great. Well thank you Miss Fink or Finky's. class. Hats off to you guys. Keep it up. And yes we will definitely do a three. sisters episode someday dedicated to you. guys. Right Chuck? For sure. If you want to get in touch with us you. can too via email at. stuffpodcast@iheartradio.com. Stuff You Should Know is a production of.

iHeartRadio. For more podcasts [music]. from iHeartRadio visit the iHeartRadio. app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you. listen to your favorite shows.