Sixdegrees.com: A Social Media Origin Story | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW

Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a. production of iHeart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm. Josh. There's Chuck. Here's Jerry. And. we're going to take a nice little stroll. down Internet Memory Lane here on Stuff. You Should Know. Yeah, this is something I had never. heard of. Had you heard of this? No. I ran up past Yumi and she's like, "Oh, man. Yes, I think I've heard of. it." I don't know if she has or not.

Well, Yumi is an early adopter. Yeah, she was definitely more internety. than I was at that time. Yeah. Um, so what we're talking about. here is uh the the first what's regarded. as the first social media website uh the. thing that started the degradation of. all mankind uh way back in 1997. It was. called sixderee.com. uh spelled out s iixd degrees.com. It. was founded by a guy named Andrew. Winerri and for about 3 years in the.

late 90s uh they were able to come. online when not a ton of people are. online and garner ultimately about three. and a half million users which it pales. in comparison to what we look at today. but for the time wasn't too bad. Yeah, not too shabby. Unfortunately, it. wasn't enough to get them over the hump. and and give them staying power. But I. think they were also a victim of timing. as we'll see. Yeah, for sure. But yes, they they the deck was stacked.

against them in the fact that they were. essentially very much ahead of their. time. They were a social media site. before there were enough people online, not just enough people to come and use. your social media site. There was only. something like I mean if they had three. and a half million users there was. probably like 3.6 million users on all. of the internet at the time. I don't. know if that's a correct estimate but. something like 18% of households. according according to the US census in.

1997 when six degrees launched only 18%. had internet at home at the time. Yeah. There's a there was a competing um. um stat from Pew Research Center that. said 36% did but there was uh different. methodologies and stuff. So let's just. say you know somewhere in between those. numbers. I bet it was more more like 18. Um this was you know 97 was uh 1 2 3 4 5. years before Friendster launched Fster.

That's hard to say for some reason. Mhm. Uh and but by that time the percentage. of people in 2002 uh that had flipped. It was more like um 39% of people did. not use the internet and 61% of people. did. Mhm. So it was right at that, you know, it. was just terrible timing right there at. the end of the 90s when the dot bubble. burst. Uh and just right on its heels, other sites came along that did far far. better. Yeah. And just one thing, I I like that. Pew data because it doesn't have like.

that small slice of like don't know, not. sure. It's either yes, I use it or I. don't use it. It's a nice solid survey. Agreed. So, yeah. So, there's a lot of um. whatifs, could have been kind of thing. Uh and we'll get into those a little bit. um more, but there were more things that. that um Six Degrees was up against. Another really really big one was the. slow speed of internet. Yeah. And you know, today you might look. back and think, well, we had no.

comparison back then. Didn't matter. It. was so slow that it would make you angry. waiting around for a song to download or. a a web page to even load. Yeah, there were transfer speeds using. dialup modems of 56 kilobytes per. second. That was what you had to deal. with. Not a gig per second, a kilobyte. times 56 per second. That was the. transfer speed at the time and that was. the maximum.

Yeah. I mean, we've laughed about it. before, but just the days of uh of just. seeing a picture appear on the screen. like three lines at a time, down, down, down, and you're just I just want to. know what this thing looks like. And if. you wanted to know, you had to sit there. for five minutes or whatever. Yeah. I mean, you had time to go make. and eat toast. Yeah. While a picture was. downloading. Yeah. I ate a lot of toast back then. So. that was a that was a a big challenge. for it too. And then one of the other.

problems too as we'll see is that people. I mean if you have a social media site. it's kind of helpful to have pictures. and they just weren't around at the. time. Yeah. And and we'll we'll get to that uh. all the reasons why in a minute. But um. just to sort of you know locate it on. the timeline um in 1997 when it launched. like google.com had just registered as a. domain. So, it wasn't even a real thing. yet. Um, the word web blog had just been. coined. Uh, or you know what it would. become is blog and Netflix was sending.

DVDs through the mail. So, I. remember that. it seems like a thousand years ago, but. it wasn't that long ago in the grand. scheme of things. No. And it's kind of sad that Six. Degrees has kind of gotten lost to. history. Most people think Friendster. was the first social media site. No, Six. Degrees was. And it wasn't even one of. those things where um it's technically. the first social media site even though. it really was not. It didn't resemble. social media at all. No, this was the.

first social media site and it. essentially laid the groundwork for all. the social media sites to come. It just. was so far ahead of its time that it got. lost to history. Yeah, for sure. Uh Frenster ultimately. got about 10 million, but they had a lot. of technical problems, so they didn't. last. Um, MySpace was the next big one. in 2003. They were the first uh to reach. a million monthly active users, which. was a big deal. Um, some people say that at one point it. was the most popular site in the United. States.

I believe that. Yeah. Yeah. Even if only for a brief. amount of time. Um, but then in 2008, Facebook came along and and sort of. smashed everything. Uh, and just to put. a perspective, three and a half million. users for uh six degrees. Facebook has. more than three billion users and Blue. Sky has 33 million and that's looked at. as like a tiny thing. Yeah, for sure. So, yeah, it kind of. puts their three and a half million. users into perspective. Yeah. So, um six degrees may sound familiar to.

people. Um it's actually very much. related to the six degrees of Kevin. Bacon or uh six degrees of separation, the play by John Guer. Um, and then. later the movie adaptation starring. Stalker Channing, of course. Um, but. it's actually, I didn't realize it's. based on a study that Stanley Mgrim of. the very famous Mgrim experiment where. he um had people shock some unseen. person in another room to find out just.

how how obedient people were to. authority even against their own set of. morals. You know that one, right? Yeah. He also carried out a study where. he was one of the first to kind of. determine how far apart the average. person was from the other from anybody. else in the world. Yeah. He got together with another uh. psych professor named Jeffrey Travers. and this is pretty cool. I think it was. pretty um lowfi way to do it. But this. is I mean what year was this? Was this.

the 1950s? No, it was the late60s. Late 60s. Okay. Um, but what they did. was they said, "All right, let's get. some people in Kansas. Let's get some. people in Nebraska." They said, "Here's. a folder and it has a document with a a. target person that we want you to get. this to them, but you can't just look. them up and see if you can find their. address and mail it to them." One of the. people was in Cambridge, one was in uh. Sharon, Massachusetts. And they said, "What you want to do, or what we want. you to do rather,

is send it to a person that you. personally know who you think might be. able to get it to another person who. could get it to another person who could. eventually get it to this target person. and then we will uh measure that and see. what the the average or the mean might. be." Um, so literally a farmer in Kansas. um, got it, you know, this is just one. example, got it to the wife of a student. in Massachusetts who gave it to an. Episcopalian minister in this town who.

gave it to an instructor at the. theological seminary there who got it to. that target. So that would be uh, one, two, three, four degrees of separation, which is pretty remarkable, I think. Yeah. Yeah. And I also think, Chuck, that it's kind of funny that to Stanley. Mgram, Nebraska and Kansas are the most. socially remote locations in all of the. United States because that's where he. started, right? To see how long it took. to get to, I guess, civilization like.

Boston. But, um, they actually did a lot. of analysis of this. They released a a. version of the study in Psychology. Today, which was meant for a general. audience. But then they did like the. real deal in a journal called Sociometry. in 1969. And they found that there was a. a mean length um mean is the one in the. middle. No, mean is average. It's. another word for average. Just say. average, you know. Um of 4.4 to 5.7. intermediaries. So they found that.

people have a degree of separation of. 4.4 4 to 5.7 and this was all the way. back in the mid to late60s. Think about. how closer we are now. Yeah. Well, what I wonder too is did. they throw out the ones because. apparently most of the folders never. even made it. Did they just toss those. and say of the ones who got there, this. is how they're connected? Um, yes. But I believe that most of the. ones that didn't get there were because. the initial farmers in Kansas and.

Nebraska just threw them out. They. didn't participate. Oh, really? I think that's what happened. to the majority of them. So yeah, it. wasn't like the most robust study of all. time, but it was so fascinating that it. just captured the imagination of people. and became kind of a pop cultural meme. But what's interesting about it is that. later scholarship that was pretty robust. studies supported what Mgrim and uh his. um collaborator Jeffrey Travers found in. that study. Yeah, there was one in 2003. that found a median of 5 to seven. Um,

this is pretty old data, but in 2011 uh. they did the degrees of separation on. other social media sites and for. Facebook at the time it was 4.74 and for. the uh at the time named Twitter it was. 4.67. Um, but the caveat there is like you're. not necessarily counting just the people. that you know. Like I know plenty of. people when I was on Facebook that had. lots of like uh what were they in.

Facebook? Friends. Mhm. Yeah. Friends who they they had no idea. who they were. It was just more of a. maybe a networking thing kind of like. LinkedIn. Yeah, for sure. And as we'll see, six. degrees, too. Yeah. Um Yeah. Uh Laura, Dr. Claw, who. helped us out with this points out that. social media kind of has a stretch the. definition of what we consider a. connection, like you just said. And also, you said what used to be. called Twitter. I think it's hilarious. because very frequently you'll see.

Twitter used in like some sort of. article or whatever and then in. parenthesis after that it'll say X. Yeah. And I mean everyone still says. Twitter it seems like. Yeah. It just didn't take like sorry the. the name change for the business you. bought did not take. Yeah. It's cuz X is dumb. I guess so. And Twitter was just so. perfect I guess. Well, I mean, I don't. know if Twitter's a good name or not, but it had such uh recognition. It's. just like, yeah, it's like the people who bought the.

Sears Tower and tried to change the name. and everybody's like, "Nope, still Sears. Tower. Sorry.". Yeah. I love that when a corporate. sponsor takes over and they're like, "No, we're still going to call it the. thing it was before. It's still the Tostitos Fiesta Bowl. Sorry. Sorry. Cars.com.". Uh, well, you mentioned Kevin Bacon. Uh, and we should mention real quick, the. six degrees of Kevin Bacon was a very. popular thing created by some college. students where and the idea is that. Kevin Bacon has been in so many varied. movies over the years that you can. connect any actor in Hollywood uh to.

Kevin Bacon in less than in six degrees. or less. Mhm. Um but the Bacon number apparently is. 3.12 and they're um 5. 22 actors who have a a smaller. connectivity number or bacon number than. that? Yeah, there more connected to people. than Kevin Bacon. I didn't know that. Chuck, did you? Yeah. Well, that there were 522 or that there were. more connected actors? Both. I mean, I figured there were more.

connected actors because there were. people, well, Eric Roberts is is the. number one with 2.90841. because he has 865. uh IMDb entries as an actor. So, I. figured there were people that were in. way more movies and that's just math, you know. Sure, it is. But also, you can make an a. case that Kevin Bacon's 111 movies. typically are with more stars who have. more work. So they're it's likelier that.

the people he work with are in more. movies with more other people whereas. Eric Roberts is probably in movies with. people like this is their one and only. movie. or people who are in like 600 movies. that you just have never heard of. That's true too. That's possible. If. Rift Trek taught me anything, it's that. if like I I know who Cameron Mitchell is. for Pete's sake. Who's that? He's one of those guys who's in a. million movies that you've never heard. of. But you recognize his face. face name. Yeah, I think I actually know some of.

his family members now, right? I'm gonna have to look this guy. up. Yeah. Oh, man. It will take you on an. odyssey. And don't even bother watching. the original version of the movies. Just. watch the Rift Trek version of Cameron. Mitchell's movies. Uh, a rare in store or in show. Look up. Cameron Mitchell. Huh? Oh, no. He's a. restaurant tour. It's not him. Look up Cameron Mitchell. Space Mutiny. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I know that guy. Was he in Plan Nine?

Maybe. He really might have been. Well, and now I'm seeing a picture of. him as an older gentleman. And I've seen. him in movies as an older gentleman, too. Speaking of Space Mutiny, that's a. really great riff tracks to start with. Those guys are the best. And wait, actually, I think that's a. MST3K to start. Watch that. Watch both. versions. How about that? All right. Well, that's what I meant. But yeah. Um, okay. So, do you want to take a. break, Chuck? Yeah, let's take a break. and talk more about old internet right. after this. [Music].

Okay, Chuck. So, we said we were going. to take a stroll down internet memory. lane. Um, and this was a time when like.

I think the year before Six Degrees. launched, Craigslist launched, Amazon.com launched and they were just. selling books at the time. Yeah. Um, one of the big search engines. was Ask Jeeves and it was revolutionary. because you could use natural language. rather than have to figure out exactly. what keyword you needed to put in to get. results like with. LIOS. Yeah. Yeah, totally. Um, which by the way, Ask Jeeves is. ask.com now. Did you know that?

Uh, I think I did know that. I knew it. changed into something. Well, it changed. They just got rid of Jeeves, which is. super sad. I know. It is pretty sad. They they. retired him. He went off to live on a. farm as they say. Yeah. Which means they killed him. Uh how Six Degrees work though is. interesting because not only was it um. the name coped from Six Degrees of. Separation, they actually organized the. website in such a way. Uh and it seemed. like part of the fun of it, and again.

this is early internet. If you're if. you're a youngster out there, you may. think this is super funny that people. thought this was fun. Mhm. But it seems like part of the fun. of sixdigereees.com. was finding people you didn't know and. then tracing that connection through the. website, right? Um so one of the things that you. would do is go through the um I guess. the registry of other sixderee users and. there were so few initially that you. could do that rather than go through. three and a half million people. It was. just a few hundred potentially and you'd.

be like oh I know them. I know them and. you would make a connection with them. They would confirm it and now you were a. firstderee connection YouTuber because. you actually know each other, right? Yeah. And you, like you said, you had to. confirm that connection, but you could. also include people who weren't on it. yet. Like, I'm just going to list out my. family members or whatever and put their. email addresses in. Keep in mind, this is at a time where. you didn't get a lot of email. You. didn't get much, if any, spam email. And. sometimes getting an email was like,

"Oh, wow. Look at this. This is cool. If you think about that now, like, oh. yeah, just put all your family and. friends and put their emails in. That's. like a a fireable offense, right? Like socially, you can go to jail. I think you can, but back then it was a. different deal. So, um, you can include. people, put their emails, and they would. get an email asking for confirmation and. saying, "And also, do you want to sign. up for this cool new thing?". No. Yeah. Exactly. Um, so the people that. knew the people you knew, but you.

weren't directly connected to them, you. were now secondderee connected with. them. And then those people were. connected to people that you didn't. know, and they were thirdderee. connections. I think it didn't go beyond. third degree. Like they didn't go all. the way up to six. I think that was. totally unnecessary. Mhm. Um, but this was like, yeah, this. was very groundbreaking and. revolutionary and people were just. amazed by people they knew and and the. point was like, who do your friends know. that you want to know that you don't. know yet? Now you can make a firstderee.

connection with those people if they. confirm you. Yeah. I mean, that's the way it was sort. of like a predecessor to LinkedIn. I. mean, you'll see again, like you said, like seeds of all the social media. websites. They were doing it. Um, because you could create a profile. with your professional affiliations and. stuff like that. Um, you were encouraged and I think most. people probably really did use their. real identities because at the time. people were like, well, what kind of a. weirdo would just create some fake. identity on the internet just to mess.

with people? So there were real people. on there um that was a member of the uh. trustee e data privacy program which is. now uh been bundled up under trust arc. Mhm. Uh but email was very central to it all. It was not an app. They didn't have apps. yet. Uh you would get an email asking. for confirmation. You would reply via. email. You would add others via email. So it was just a different time. Yeah. And there were um I mean you would. add your hobbies, you would add who you.

worked for, um what degrees you had. maybe. So yeah, again lots of seeds of. LinkedIn for sure. Again, no pictures. and this was a huge stumbling block as. we'll see. Um but they did have other. functionality that was thrilling. It had. basically in network emailing, right? So. you could directly contact your contacts. had they confirmed you. um their. bulletin boards where you could. essentially chat. Um and I think they. had a bunch of other kind of bells and.

whistles that they added over the years. Um they had something called channels. which were essentially special interest. groups and you could be like, "Oh, I'm. interested in business and finance or. I'm interested in games." I think. meaning at the time nothing but Oregon. Trail, right? Um, and you could just go. and find other people on these message. boards that were interested in these. things and maybe make some contacts if. they confirmed you. Yeah. Again, way ahead of its time uh. with Facebook groups. That's exactly.

what they did. Um, we got some uh and. you can go look these up if you want to. see like screenshots of what the screen. looked like. Um, I believe we were sent. one from October 1999, a welcome screen. Uhhuh. Scream screen. Uh, and it was it was. cute. It looked like a a a fun website. of the day. It had a service. marketplace. There was daily trivia on. the homepage. Uh there was this is. hysterical. There was a daily poll. And. on that day in October 1999, this was. the poll.

When you get a chain letter from a. friend, you a immediately throw it away, b do what it says ASAP, c hold on to it. for a while, and then lose it. So it's. clearly they weren't like super future. facing if they were like chain letters. That's relatable. Right. Right. I found one also, Chuck, from February. 29th, 2000. So that was a leap year. Um, it was the the question of the day was. Bill and Monica. And then your your. choices were love, lust, and as long as.

it's not Hillary. That was the question of the day. That's pretty funny. Um, by that time, six or eight months after the October. one that was sent, um, and probably in. the February uh, one that you saw, they. were there were little nuggets of. engagement boosting that they were. trying to use like, hey, here's some. content, here's some like join this. Mother's Day group or we're going to. spotlight this channel. Um they had it. was they would tell how many people were. online at that moment which.

uh in the October of 1999 it was uh 510. people which sounds very funny but I. distinctly remember being in like chat. rooms where they would say like like 300. people are in there and I would it would. blow my mind. that there were that many. Yeah. It just seemed like, "Oh my god, dude. I'm in my living room in New. Jersey and I'm on this computer and. there are 300 people around the world. that I can talk to right now.". That's neat. And what did you say? Well, I I did have one specific.

interaction with uh someone, of course, at the time. I thought it was a real. girl about our love of Cat Stevens. Uhhuh. And we had a real back and forth going. and a lot in common. And I'm sure that. was probably a nine-year-old boy. You got catfished over Cat Stevens. I. might have. Who knows? But I remember. thinking like, "Hey man, this girl. sounds super cool and there are no. pictures, so I bet, you know, she's cute. as far as I know.". Well, a nine-year-old boy who's into Cat. Stevens is probably pretty cool, too. Yeah, that probably would have been a. better online friend.

to chat about real music, right? Um, another thing I saw on that. February 2000 page was the theme of the. week. And this theme was to thine own. self improve. So there was like you. could click on to Zen practice group. Yeah. Self-help. funue raiki. There was a book club. Um. they were just throwing everything they. could. Yeah. at this to just get people to interact. more and more and more because um it.

would you the the more engaged you were. the more likely you were to send out. those emails to your friends and be. like, "Hey, join me on here." It's. pretty awesome. So maybe let's talk about pictures real. quick and then we'll take a break. because the lack of pictures is a big. deal especially when you look at the. modern internet. Uh a website with just. text and maybe you know uh clip art and. stuff like that isn't super engaging. obviously. So the reason why they didn't. have pictures is because there was no.

way to get pictures there. You know. there weren't digital cameras. the um. there was the Apple QuickTake 100 that. was released a few years before. Uh if. you look up pictures of this, it's about. the size of a sandwich. Kind of funny. looking. Um it was the first digital. camera. It cost 750 bucks. Uh the Canon. PowersShot was the first digital camera. that could write images to a hard disk. That was released uh kind of one Yeah. one year before um Six Degrees came. online in 1996. That was almost $1,000.

had 176 megs of storage. But the first camera phone didn't come. along until 99. And that was uh uh Kya. Visual Phone VP210. Yeah, it was actually cheap considering. it's 634 bucks in today's dollars for a. camera phone. It was an 111 megapixel. camera. For comparison, the iPhone 16. has as much as 48 megapixels.

Yeah. But if you look up some of like. the um the promotional images of this, there's like um uh like Japanese women. holding the phone that's showing a. picture of themselves. You can clearly. see who it is. Yes, that's another word for it. I'm. using 1997 terminology though. Um they like you can see you can tell. it's them. I think one version of it is. in color. It's not that bad. especially for 600. You can tell it's them. Yeah, you don't.

have to like like squint your eyes to. make the pixels come together and you're. like, "Is that Popeye?". Um, it's like you can tell it's them, I. guess. I I was impressed by it. So, it did its most basic function as an. image capturing device. Yes. Being able to tell it was that thing, right? Oh, one other thing I saw about. the Apple QuickTake 100, at its highest. resolution, it could store up to eight. photos at once. Whoa. This is so much fun. And I love making. fun of the early internet.

I know that we live through. Um this is. also a true story. Uh Winre, the. founder, uh would get emails where. people would say, "Hey, can I snail mail. you a physical photo? I have it. Can you can I send it to you. via the US Postal Service and can you. scan it and attach it to my profile. because you really need pictures on this. thing?". Right? And they were like, "Maybe." And. then somebody around the the table at. the bowl session said, "Well, wait, what. if people want to start like updating or.

changing their photos?" And Andrew Wine, I think it's Wine Reich, maybe said, "Yeah, let's just skip that.". All right. Okay. No, no, I'm saying Wine Rich said. that, not us. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, there's like a rare inshow edit. that didn't get edited on purpose. Should we take that break now? I feel like we need to. Yes. All right. I'm gonna go do 20 push-ups. for that and I'll be right back. [Music].

All. right. So, wineer. It's wine rich. Wine. Wine rich. I think. wine rich.

Okay. Yeah. I'm pretty sure that's how. um I think it was Wikipedia that had the. pronunciation and I think it said. Wininrich. Okay. All right. Maybe he was trying to. seem less German, right? Yeah. That always reminds me of. um that part in 30 Rock where um Tina. Fay is like, "Well, she's apologizing. and she said, I'm very sorry, like Mr. Viner Slav." And he said, "It's wiener. slave.

That's such a good joke, man. It is. Have you ever seen um Unbreakable Kimmy. Schmidt? Have you seen that yet? Uh I watched it when it I mean when it. came out years ago, I watched the first. like season or so. There aren't that many shows that can. make me actually laugh out loud and. that's one of them. And it's because. Tina Bay is one of the the best comedy. writers to ever live. Yeah, agreed. Uh I don't Have you seen. The Four Seasons yet? No, I'm avoiding it. I saw that it's a. remake of an Allen Alda film and I have.

a strict policy not to watch late 70s. early al early early 80s Allen all the. films or their remakes. Oh god, your distaste for Alen Alda is. truly disturbing. The thing is I've got nothing against. Alan Alda. Um, personally it's those. kind of movies. Same with Elliot G. can't stand those kind of movies like. where it's just like like hey. I can't even do an impression of it but. I can't stand those kind of movies and. and somebody out there knows what I'm.

talking about. Elliot Gold kind of movies. yes whether it's Capricorn 1 or that. Shaggy Dog movie that he's in um where. he plays the detective. uh I will say that one movie I think you. would like is the long goodbye. that's the one I'm talking about. That's. the Shaggy Dog Detective one. I don't. think I would. What does Shaggy Dog detective mean? I. don't understand what that mean. Um, so Shaggy Dog is where like there's. this whole buildup of like say a mystery. or something and it turns out to be.

nothing. Like there's really no point to. the movie at in the end. Oh, okay. So, wow. I thought you would like The Long. Goodbye. Great Robert Altman uh noir to. me. No. And I like Robert Alman stuff, too. Raymond Chandler book. No. Still. nothing. Huh? I. I wouldn't if if you made it. No, I. can't wait. If you made it before Elliot. Gould was in it, I would probably watch. it. All right, fair enough. Um, wait, one more thing. Yeah. Yeah. Speaking of um, great directors, I. finally saw Ghost Dog, Way of the. Samurai by Darmish. Did you see that.

ever? I saw that in the theater, buddy. I was guessing that you had That is such. a good movie, man. I can't believe that. slipped under my radar because that. totally was in my wheelhouse for that. that time. Yeah. Yeah. Dash is the best. And Forest. Whitaker was so good in that. Yes, he was. Good music, too. Yeah. All right. Uh, where how did that start? Winerre trying to seem less German. This. is the six degrees of that conversation, I guess. Mr. Wiener Slave. Yeah. Wiener Slave. So, here's what uh. Winri I guess. There's one other thing that reminds me.

of, too. You remember we were talking. about the vanity license plate episode. Yeah. Uhhuh. or um and like the greatest. misconstrued vanity plate of all time is. where the guy had J is Lord like Jesus. is Lord but it's all one word so it says. Jiz Lord. J Lord. that's the greatest vanity plate. anyone's ever had. that definitely beats ass man even. I think so too which is a good one.

yeah that it's really funny. lower. especially taking it in the context it. was originally there. Exactly. Yeah. Like who that guy was. to be that, you know, dedicated of a a. Christian to do that on your license. plate and that's what you end up with. Rolling up to church with Jiz Lord on. your car. Man, you can make a movie about that. Yeah, you could. With starring Elliot. Gould as the Jiz Lord. So Wininrich said. uh and this is a quote that just kind of.

shows how far ahead of his time he was. his vision uh it is abundantly clear to. me that the world will index all of. their relations everyone's relationship. in a single database and that was like. before anyone else is doing it. So they. started off this thing as a um just with. a launch like a physical launch event, a. party in New York City. They had 200. invited guests and those were the first. 200 members and they were like now you. all go out and and make this a thing by.

inviting your friends. So I'm I'm curious like who those 200. people were. That's pretty interesting. way to start a site like this. I think. there were a lot of techsavvy people who. were kind of like. probably. primed to to take part in this. to begin with. And I think at first they were adding. like 50 new users a day. Wow. Which again that's really small and I. think even for the time this was pretty. small but they're doing this through. like email and stuff, you know, like. it's it's really it's a weird transfer.

from online world to real world. that. straddled both because it had to. Another good example of that is um that. uh they would use reps to go to campus. to sign people up just like that same. credit card model that that credit card. companies use to um screw college kids. parents out of $1,000. Yeah. I remember I had the uh MX College. card and the only reason I got it, I. didn't even really want or need a credit.

card, but um you got three Delta flight. vouchers. Oh, uh, when you signed up for that card. So, I got three plane flights. So, where did you go? I don't remember. Well, I do remember. cuz I know I went to LA for the first. time to visit my brother when he lived. there. Nice. When I was in college. Did you go visit the uh six or. nine-year-old Cat Stevens fan? I did. And that was a 75year-old woman. Wow. Man, that story goes all over the. place. Yeah. It took a quite a weird turn,

but we're still good friends. She's. still around with us. She's 102. Oh, really? Yeah. That's cool, man. Does she listen to the. podcast or is she like, "No, only Cat Stevens all the time.". That would get kind of old, I think. So, let's talk about the end of this. thing because as we all know, it's not. still around. Um although Dr. Claw said. if you went there, it had a homepage. I. went there and I got a error. Gateway Timeout. The old 504. Same here. The old 504. Yeah. I I But it's there. It's if if it.

weren't a domain that was active, it. would come back as like, "Hey, you want. to buy this domain?". But it doesn't do that. It just is so. slow that you can't connect to it. But. it does seem to be there. Six. degrees.com. Sure. Yeah. I mean, considering the the. public knowledge of just that term, it's. um like you try go to try going out. these days and getting a better domain. name, you know? You can't do it. You just can't. Uh don't feel too bad. for wine rich or Reich or Rick because.

he sold uh in 1999 for 120 125 million. in stock options in youth stream media. networks. Uh, but this, you know, you. you know that if you know anything about. internet history, you know that this. thing shut down in 99 and what that. meant that com bubble right there on the. horizon in 2000, shut down more websites. than you could shake a stick at. Yeah. And actually, you can feel pretty. bad for Winri because he took that $125.

million in stock in a company that. folded like months later because it was. debt financed. So I don't know how much. he actually walked away with, especially. if there was possibly a blackout in him. selling those stock options. Oh, so yeah. Yet what you're saying is. Youth Stream itself also went under. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh because they were just. borrowing, borrowing, borrowing, and. that's how they existed. And then when. the when the dot bubble burst, they were. worth nothing. And so that stock was. worth nothing. I I looked I couldn't.

find how much he actually did make from. that sale like in real. You can never find that out. No. And that usually means that it's not. a very good amount. Yeah, they like to leak that stuff when it's. like eyepopping, but when it's not, they're like, "Oh, I don't remember.". Yeah, good point. Um, the other problem. was it was very early in the internet. and that monetization was a real. struggle. Um, they had some ads, of. course. Uh, I believe their question of. the day had an actual sponsor. Uh, but. it was just a little bit too early. Um,

like right after they fell off, Frenster. came along. that also failed again. But. then MySpace and Facebook just just on. the heels of this uh he did make some. other dough off of it. I think um the. patent that he had with six degrees for. the software for the platform he sold. for 700,000 real dollars to the CEO of. LinkedIn. Uhhuh. Uh and the CEO Mark Pinkis of a website. called Tribe and they were both Finster.

investors. Yeah. and Reed Hoffman and he said he. and Mark Pinkis were like essentially. fans like they were like Wininrich is a. god here. He he this patent not only is. for the software it's for the. methodology of creating an online social. network. No one had ever come up with. something like that before. So they. actually kind of bought it for a song. I. looked and uh LinkedIn is apparently. definitively not built on six degrees. architecture or and it never was. But it.

almost seems like they were either. taking it to learn from it or almost. like they were buying like some um. memorabilia. that they were like fans of. I almost. got that impression from an interview. with Reed Hoffman. Oh, very interesting. Um he Andrew. Wininrike went on to do you know a lot. of more things like this. He's kind of a. serial entrepreneur. Uh, and again, he. it seems like he was always uh right. there before the real thing came along.

Uh, because he had something called uh, Meet Mua, as in Mi, uh, French for me, right? Yeah. Yeah. I I thought so. I was just making. sure. Uh, but that was a location-based. dating app. And it was basically this. idea that like, hey, dating app or. dating websites are really tough even at. the time of the early internet. and like. let's at least connect people who are. physically close and it might be easier. to get real dates. Uh the dating part of. that business was bought by the parent.

company of match.com once again just. right there next to the thing. Uh and he and his Mima co-founder bought. out the business analytics part of their. own company and use it to found a data. analytics company called Indicative. which is still around from what I can. tell and. All right. So maybe he's done all right. there. Yeah. And so this was I mean this was. very early 2000s too and they were like. they were using track like location. tracking data um at the time and that. was huge and new and so they kept that I.

think they ended up either selling it or. licensing it it to a company called Xify. not a very good name they should call it. Twitterify. Yeah. And they had some like. high-profile clients. They had Ritz. Carlton. They had Staples. They had. Sephora Publishers Clearing House. Yeah. So they were but they were using. those location apps to advertise to you. and send you push notifications on your. phone which sadly means that Andrew. Wininrich is going to be going to hell. for that.

I mean did he create that idea? I wonder. he's he he gave or he sold Xify the the. the ability to do that. So. and then IBM bought them, right? Yeah. So I'm not sure how much he made. from these buyouts. I hope a lot because. again this guy is like coming up with. ideas and making stuff happen long. before they can become viable and a lot. of people probably have gotten very rich. off the back of his ideas too. So I hope. he's doing well. Maybe if he's listening. or someone knows him through their.

degrees of uh connectivity just uh get. to him and have him email us at. stuffodcastia.com. and just send us your bank statement. That's right. So we'll know. I want to. specify by doing well. I don't mean just. financially. I mean I hope his. well-being his sense of well-being is. nice and inflated and happy and you know. that he's he's living a good life. No, I agree. I cheapened it by making it. financial and that's why you're the. heart of the show. Yeah, that's me. I'm the one you're not.

supposed to touch. Remember? Oh, well, you know what I mean. Oh, one thing that I did see that he's. doing now is um a podcast called. Predicting Our Future. It's about what. life is going to be like in the fairly. near future. Pretty cool. Fantastic. Um, so Chuck, I think there's that's it. for six degrees.com. We got 40 minutes. out of it. Hey, not bad. Lots of fun stories in in. between. Yeah. And what did you just say in. between, right? Mhm. Well, then that means it's time for. listener mail.

Boy, I'm glad I always know the trigger. word. Yeah, it's it's amazing. You never fail. each episode. Go me. Y. Uh, hey guys. I'm a 40some man with. autism who lives on his own and the need. for impression management hit close. home. So, this was I remember about we. even speculated about impression. management. Mhm. That we might hear from uh some people. with autism. This was a great email. It's a great This is a Josh curated even. uh I simply cannot match the body.

language of others and have to fake it. I don't instinctively smile or look. angry. People say I have an almost. disturbing calm demeanor. Being calm. sounds great, but it has gotten me. searched for additional screening at 20. airports and even strip searched at one. Uh, when people grill you for. questioning, a straight answer without. fear frustrates the hell out of people. whose job it is to make you feel. uncomfortable. To help mask my autism, I. wear sunglasses to hide my eyes. And. because of that, I've gotten the. nickname Terminator. A flat affect.

direct language doesn't help either. Uh, discrimination is very real, guys. But I. like to say getting angry at a person. with autism who doesn't adhere to. societal norms is like getting angry at. a person with one leg that doesn't run. marathons. Hopefully people uh who listen will give. people with a bit of a quirk some slack. Uh, thanks from a longtime listener. That is Matt. I'm glad Matt wrote that one in. That. was a good good um email and I think he. probably speaks for a lot of people in. that situation. Totally a good reminder.

to everybody and something that like we. talked about on that episode as as we've. gotten older we try to sort of think. about not just that but what everyone's. going through in their life and maybe. they're not having their best day when. you meet them you know. Yep. Too true, Chuck. Too true. Uh if. you want to be like Matt and send us a. worldclass email, we would love that. You can send it off to stuffodcast.com. Stuff You Should Know is a production of. iHeart Radio. For more podcasts, iHeart.

Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple. Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your. favorite shows. [Music].