Short Stuff: Victorian Flower Language | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW

[music]. >> Hey, and welcome to the Short Stuff. I'm. Josh and there's Chuck and that's all. that needs [music] mentioning today cuz. it's just us. So, this is Short Stuff. That's right. Uh and by the way, I. wanted to thank you for sending over. that beautiful. uh nosegay. of wilted white roses delivered upside. down with a ribbon to the left. >> Oh, may I ask where on your chest are. you wearing it? In your my bodice. Uh in the center or.

Right in the center, baby. Oh, well, I. guess we're good friends then. I can. live with that. >> [laughter]. >> Although. >> I'm not sure what I was saying with the. whole thing. It's kind of confusing. >> Yeah, I'd have to get out a code uh. decoder book or whatever. Well, they had. those, Chuck. Um what we're talking. about is floriography and there were a. lot of floriography books because it. turns out floriography was a huge deal. in the Victorian and uh Regency areas. Um I guess between couple of decades on. either side of the 19th and 20th century. divide, the DMZ of those centuries as it.

were. Um this was it was really popular to. send unspoken messages using flowers. That's right. Uh. unspoken because at the time in the UK. the and parts of the US obviously in. Europe and certain, you know, high. societies mainly uh you could not speak. these things aloud a lot of times. It. was uh untoward. So, you had to have a. coded way of talking to each other. and if you're thinking like, oh yeah, you send flowers to someone and that.

means something. Yeah. It goes deep. Uh. I mean, it is literally a a code and. that's what I was kind of referring to. with the upside down and the wilted and. the where the ribbon's tied. Like all. that stuff means something. It does. Yeah. It is quite deep and you can send. quite complex messages and we'll kind of. show what we're talking about. But. first, I want to shout out some great. sources that helped with this um. Farmers' Almanac, the Iowa State. University Extension, Pedal Republic, it's a great name. Uh author Sarah on.

Substack, Clive Clive Rose, Georgina. Garden Center, Thursd, just the D. Uh-huh. Flower Meaning and Historical. Holly all helped with this. So, thanks. to all of you. Yeah, that's wonderful. So, this is nothing new uh. or was nothing new back then. Um coded. messages through flowers goes back uh to. the 1600s at least in the Ottoman Empire. when they had a tradition called selam. uh or selim, s e l a m, which was a game.

where between uh the the members of the. harem of Constantinople where they would. send uh flowers attached with like. rhymes and meanings and stuff like that. to communicate with one another. >> Yeah. Which made sense cuz a lot of them. couldn't read or write. So, flowers did. the talking for them. And this actually spread from the. Ottoman Empire to. uh Europe via one single person, a. British aristocrat who was married to. the the British ambassador to Turkey. Her name was Lady Mary Wortley and she.

would send back letters to friends and. family describing all of the new and. exotic customs of this land that she had. moved to. She moved to Constantinople. And among them was a description of um. selam or selim selim. Which how did you say it? I said selam. or selim. I'm not sure if it's a long or. shorty. Well, the flower code that the. harem workers had come up with. She. wrote a letter about that and somebody. uh got it and said, this is great. I. want to tell everybody in the UK about.

it. That's right. Uh. and by the way, I mentioned a couple of. puns in the Operation Paul Bunyan. episode. Which one were you thinking? Cuz you. said you remembered one. Uh the the code stems back. Yeah, that was one. >> That's the only one I can think of. Well, now here's the other one. Botany. was a growing field. >> [laughter]. >> How did I miss that? My pun sensor is. covered with dirt. Well, no, that's. good. You you want to pack some mud on.

that thing. I know, but um I don't like. walking past stuff. I like to to take. part, you know, be involved in the mix. So, botany was a growing field uh. and floriography was uh like I said, among certain classes, you know, mainly. upper class women uh because, you know, it wasn't like the kind of thing that. you could really talk about openly in. that class. And this is one thing uh I I haven't. seen Emily yet today cuz she got out of. the house early, but I wanted to ask her. cuz she's, you know, like a lot of uh.

next women are obsessed with uh Jane. Austen stuff and Sense and Sensibility. and all those um. series and movies and books. And I. wondered if she knew about this or if. they in those cuz I've never watched any. of them, if they were kind of pointed. stuff out like, oh, he sent the flowers. this way and that means this. But that's I mean, that's the Bronte. sisters and Jane Austen used a lot of. floriography to help kind of develop. their characters, which I guess. >> So, I guess they did. >> Yeah, they did they definitely did and. the readers at the time probably would. have picked up on this, but floriography.

is it's become so arcane and obscure. that modern readers would not pick up on. it. But if you learn about floriography. and you start reading Jane Austen, apparently it'll show up. Um. >> Oh, well, no, that's what I was. wondering if in the books and they said. like, oh, well, he sent an upside down. thing, which means blah blah blah. >> Yes. Yeah, they would they would do. that. I found a quote um from uh Pride. and Prejudice from Jane Austen. Ooh, can. you read it in character? Uh well, it's. the narrator um so, sure. I guess I can. cuz the narrator sounds exactly like me.

Yeah. But uh Elizabeth Bennet is giving. a flower to Mr. Darcy and the the nar-. narrator describes, she gave a red rose. to tell him that she loved him. Red. rose. Red red red red red rose rose. rose. Red red rose red. Rose red rose. red red red red. And then in the I think. the first edition the word red is just. repeated over and over for three pages. before it it just stops and a new. chapter starts. Oh, that's so hot.

>> Yeah. Uh all right, I need to go cool. down. Should we take a break? Yeah, I. think so. Yeah. All right, we'll come. back and tell you about a lot of this uh. what these coded flowers mean right. after this. >> [singing]. [singing]. [music]. [singing]. [singing].

[singing]. >> So, Chuck, you mentioned that I gave you. a nosegay. Another great word for a. nosegay is a tussie-mussie. Mhm. And. floriography in the Victorian age. started to get popular at the same time. that tussie-mussies and nosegays were. popular, too. And they're really kind of. small, short, tightly bound bouquets. that you would kind of wear almost as. like a boutonniere or a um corsage.

Okay. >> And they were made of flowers and herbs. So, not just flowers, but herbs had. their own meanings, too. So, um like uh. rosemary was for remembrance and uh mint. was for clarity. Uh moss even had its. own meaning, charity or maternal love. Uh throw a violet in there maybe for. modesty. If you put all those together. in a little tussie-mussie and gave it to. somebody, you would be saying something like, I. modestly ask you to clearly remember me. with either charity or maternal love, your pick.

Yeah, which would be a very confusing. message. It would be. Yeah, paging Dr. Freud on that one. >> For sure. Uh so, the obviously, you know, the type. of flower's going to matter. The color. of the flower is going to matter. Um many messages could be sent. If you. wanted to send a message of rejection or. disappointment, uh could be a yellow. carnation or a yellow rose. Uh but if. you send a yellow lily, uh that means that you're just sort of. over the moon and walking on air. Um obviously, the red rose is going to. mean I love you. Uh white rose is.

purity. Uh a yellow rose is loss of love and a. crimson rose is for mourning with m o u. r. Right. And I mean, like that is just. skimming the surface, just the color of. different types of roses, right? Or. different color roses. The state that. the flower's in mattered a lot, too. You. made mention, I think, of a withered. rose in the um tussie-mussie I gave you. Um if you gave somebody just a plain. white rose, you could be saying like, I. think you're heavenly. You're very pure.

and I like that. But if the white rose. was withered, you were telling them that. they made no impression on you. whatsoever or that you think their. beauty is fleeting. So, remember that. And then if it was dried, you were. saying, I would rather die than to give. in to your advances because I care about. my virtue. And I'm sure you could be like, you. know, if you gave somebody a withered. rose, you would you be like, what are is. this dried or withered? What are you. trying to say here? So, I I don't know. how much. how much was like in the beholder's eye.

>> Yeah. Yeah, I mean, translation is important. and, you know, we'll get to that in here. in a sec. But uh a thornless rose means. you've fallen in love at first sight. Uh. thornless crimson rose means you're. mourning cuz remember uh crimson rose is. mourning, but you're mourning an. unrequited love at first sight. Uh and also, the context really matters. Like, you know, you you obviously kind. of know what's going on between you. It's uh when you're getting these or, you know, you're you're seeking clarity, but you you know, there's an established. thing kind of happening here for your.

own context. So, if you get a hydrangea, um it can uh be thanking the receiver. for understanding. or that you think they're frigid and. heartless. So, you really got to kind of. have a a read on the general air of the. relationship. >> Yeah, same with like petunias. You could. be saying, you soothe me or I resent. you. So, the context definitely mattered, but. the reason why like hydrangeas and. peonies and almost all of the flowers, um. had multiple meanings. It was not. because they needed to pull double duty.

because we didn't have enough flowers. and enough colors. Like if you put all. those together, you have a mind-boggling. number of combinations. So, that wasn't. it. The reason they had multiple. meanings was because there were many, many different floriography books and. essentially a lot of them just assigned. different meanings to different flowers. Yeah. So, when you gave somebody. flowers, especially if there wasn't a. lot of context yet, you were just hoping. that you guys were working from the same. book. Yeah. I mean, that's that's huge.

I think there were 98 different guides. just in the United States alone that. were circulating from 1827 to 1923. Not helpful at all. And then, you know, I also mentioned. that they were presented upside down. That also matters. If they are upside. down, that's the basically says it's. opposite day. So, I guess you're trying to sort of. maybe confuse if like if mom is looking. on and sees these flowers, but it would. seem like mom would know about opposite. day, too.

So, I'm not really sure, you know, why. they would do that. Maybe to throw. somebody off the scent, who knows. How the ribbon was tied also matters. Tied to the left, it's the symbolism is. applied to the giver. It's tied to the. right if it's in reference to the. recipient. Yeah. Yeah, I know. This is how deep it gets. It could also express a lot of negative. meanings and I think that's what you. were doing when you handed a bouquet. upside down. You'd have to be pretty sharp to put a. bunch of mean flowers in and then hand.

it to the person upside down to let them. know you meant the opposite. Yeah. But, the. >> lot of trouble to go through. Right. There were like you could be talking. about jealousy with marigolds, you could. be expressing distrust with lavender. Orange lily straight up said, "I hate. you.". You could say I feel deceived with. snapdragons. You could declare war. with a flower called a tansy, which I. hadn't heard of before, but it's like a. bunch a bunch of like small yellow. flowers together on like a single stalk.

Okay. I thought that might have been a. misprint pansy, but I literally looked. at my computer keyboard and was like, "Nah, I bet it's That T and the P are. pretty far apart.". >> Yeah. I I just I didn't know that that. flower existed, but by goodness, it. does. Also accepting. also mattered. So, depending on which. hand you accepted the flowers with sent. a message, which I guess would. I mean, if if you're handing them in. person, then you would know, but if not, you had to have it relayed back to you. Yeah. If you accepted with the right.

hand, it was a yes. The left hand was a no. If you held the. bouquet upside down after getting it, that's rejection. If someone gave you wisteria, maybe like. asking for a dance at a dance, you would. hold it upside down with your left hand. if you wanted to say, "No, thank you.". Right. Yeah, you were really saying I'm I'm. passing with that cuz you're that's a. double no. Although the the person. giving it could be like, "Is that a. double negative? Like a yes?". >> [laughter]. >> Is it opposite day? So, you could also as the receiver send.

flowers in return, too. Like if somebody. actually sent you flowers or a bouquet. with a message and didn't physically. hand it to you, you could reply with. flowers yourselves. Carnations came in. handy for that. If you send a solid. colored carnation, it meant yes. A yellow carnation was a big fat no. A. striped carnation was letting them down. a little easier, but it was still a no. It said, "I'm sorry, but I can't be with. you.". I wonder which flower meant like, you. know,

are you are you down? There was something like that out there, I guarantee it. I don't know which one. Yeah. But, there was definitely. something. And then, the last part, I. asked you where you were wearing your. nosegay and you said in the center of. your bodice, which meant. I just want to be friends. But, if you. had worn it over your heart, Chuck, I. would have known that you were saying, "I love you right back, buddy.". Hey, I do love you right back, buddy. Just, you know, not like that. I. understand. I I took my shot. Yeah.

I guess then, Chuck, short stuff is out? I think so. Stuff You Should Know is a production of. iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from. iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, [music] or wherever you. listen to your favorite shows.