Short Stuff: MacGuffins | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW

[music]. >> Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm. Josh and there's Chuck and Jerry's here, too, sitting in for Dave, which you. guessed it, makes this a Short Stuff. And it's a Short Stuff about. a a question. that will probably never be answered. What is a MacGuffin? Yeah, I think I offered up a definition. of my own recently and I'm not even sure. what I said. You you I think you went with the second.

definition. Okay. That it that we're. we're covering here. All right. But there's I mean even though so. there's a couple different definitions. So they contradict each other in certain. ways, but there are some things they. agree on and that is that a MacGuffin is. a plot device. It moves things along to. some way to some degree or another. It. motivates characters in a story or a. movie and. what it is specifically and what role it. ultimately plays in the plot, that's.

what um. that's where the the definitions differ. And so just based on what I just said, that means that figuring out what a. MacGuffin is is the MacGuffin of this. episode of Short Stuff. This would that wouldn't be the central. premise of the Short Stuff? I don't know, man. This is This is brain. breaking. This is like economics, quantum physics, and jackhammers all put. together. Well, the first. sort of definition I think example-wise.

is The Maltese Falcon is kind of always. if you if you look up anything about the. MacGuffin, they'll usually kind of point. to The Maltese Falcon film Yeah. >> as one of the best examples. Uh it was a. novel and then later a movie um where. Humphrey Bogart played Sam Spade and the. MacGuffin is The Maltese Fal- Falcon. It's this statuette uh of a bird in the. movie but it's really not about that. Maltese Falcon, the object. It's about.

what happens uh. to try and get a hold of this thing, basically. Okay. Okay. I Okay. So, this is where the This is. where I don't get it. So, the the. there's definitions out there from. screenwriters who say. um the the Maltese Falcon is the point. This is the object that does everything. in the movie. All of that actions are. based on getting their hands on the. Maltese Falcon. There would be no plot.

whatsoever if the Maltese Falcon didn't. exist. Ergo, that's what a MacGuffin is. It's. the thing that moves the entire movie. Right? The the other definition is. No, I mean, it causes some action. And. as far as the characters are concerned, it's the most important thing. But, it. actually isn't all that important in the. overall plot. I get the first definition. of MacGuffin quite clearly. But, this. other other definition I cannot get.

because every time I say, "Okay, well, then let me try to figure out what is an. example of a MacGuffin there." I I. usually come up short and it ends up. basically falling into the first. definition instead. I don't see the. difference much of a difference between. the two definitions. I I know, there's not much difference, but the idea that it's irrelevant or the. the most important part of the entire. plot. That's that's a that's a. difference, for sure. Okay. But, ultimately, the the Maltese Falcon. itself isn't like uh and the cure for.

cancer is inside and we can save the. main character. You know what I mean? Okay. I'm going to go with your take on. this because I'm not the one who had a. movie podcast. So, uh a good example of the second one. and what we're going to go over some. more famous examples, too, at the end. But, um in Raiders of the Lost Ark at. the beginning. um that little gold head statue that. he's that he gets. If you'd never seen that movie before, you know, he saw it for the first time, you might think like, oh, this object.

that he's recovering is like. super central to the plot perhaps. And it's not at all. So that's just sort. of. the first MacGuffin in that movie. They're usually introduced in act one. Although George Lucas has come out and. said that he thinks the actual Ark of. the Covenant is also a MacGuffin. So yeah, you sent that and I don't I. don't get that then. That's the thing that motivates. everyone's action. It's the most. important thing in the entire movie. How.

is that irrelevant? Well, I mean. because. I guess because in the end they just go. stick it in a box and put it in a. warehouse. Okay, so then let me ask you this. You. referenced like the Maltese Falcon. having the cure for cancer. If the point. of getting the Ark of the Covenant was. to open it up and. cure like just end all of the ills of. the world. and then they did that at the end. Would. that mean it's not the MacGuffin then or.

a MacGuffin a MacGuffin? I don't know because I don't think that. was. the driving point of them trying to find. the Ark. Like that was a byproduct of. it. If it had been though. Oh, well. jeez, I don't know. That movie's so ingrained it's hard to. sort of reframe it. Okay, I say we take a break, we'll. regroup, take a couple film classes and come. back. That sounds great.

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>> Okay Chuck, I've got another another. attempt here. This one makes a little more sense to. me. Um. in the the murder of Roger Ackroyd, the. Agatha Christie book. Have you ever seen. it? It's really good. >> No. It's essentially what the what um Knives. Out, the first one is based on. >> Oh, okay. But in there, the the character the main. character the titular character Roger. Ackroyd, he is murdered and he was. murdered to to so the murderer could get. their hands on a blackmail letter, okay?

The blackmail letter with the the name. of the blackmailer, that's important to. the characters, but it's not really the. point of the overall plot. The point of. the overall plot is Hercule Poirot's. investigation to uncover who murdered. Roger Ackroyd. So in that sense, that. blackmail letter. um is the MacGuffin. How about that one? Yeah, I mean, it. seems like a MacGuffin to me. Okay.

Okay, we're on the trail. So I think my. problem is this, Chuck. It's not that I. can't understand what a MacGuffin is, it's that I can't understand why some. things that are MacGuffins are called. MacGuffins and other things that aren't. considered MacGuffins aren't MacGuffins. That's that's my big problem here. I'm. just going to shut up about it from now. on, but I just want to make sure I go on. the record saying that. >> All right. Well, it all comes uh. it came pre-Hitchcock, but Hitchcock is. the one that sort of um made it famous, I guess. Uh he used it in a lot of his movies,

for sure. Uh and he had a couple of different. explanations over the years. Uh one is. that it was something vitally important. to the characters, but of no importance to me, the. narrator. Uh another one I saw him say was it's. the thing that the spies are after, but. the audience doesn't care about. Um, which was where he and George Lucas. diverge because George Lucas. um, apparently R2-D2 was a MacGuffin in. in Star Wars. He said, I think the. audience should care and specifically.

like if the audience doesn't care as. much about R2 as Luke does in finding. him then like the emotional tilt will be. off. Yeah. For sure. But Hitchcock was able to pull. off what he was saying in that say like. the microfilm or whatever, you don't. really care if the the bad guys get it. or Cary Grant gets it. You want to make. sure that Cary Grant and uh, was it. Grace Kelly who is in North by. Northwest? Hm, you just want to make. sure that they're both okay. You don't.

care about the microfilm. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Uh, the movie Psycho is a is a one of the. classic examples because. you know, everyone remembers the Bates. Motel, but I think if you haven't seen. the movie in a while if you're not a. student of that film, you may forget. that whole first part in the first act. Yeah. where Janet Leigh uh, the reason. she goes to the Bates Motel is cuz she's. on the run after stealing 40 grand for. her uh, from her employer and that 40. grand um, that's the MacGuffin. That it.

never comes up again. No, but it's the thing that initially. motivates the character's actions. It. gets her to to flee. She's on the lamb. That takes her to the Bates Motel and. then the actual plot begins. Yeah, but. what about the word itself? Well, you said something and I've read. this 10 times and I still don't get how. it explains what a MacGuffin is. So, I. think I'll leave it to you, but it's. what it's the one time Hitchcock um, tried to to explain the origin of.

MacGuffin or what it is, I think. Yeah, he credits a writer that he worked with. named a Scottish guy named Angus. MacPhail. And one of the theories is that it just. comes from the root word guff, uh which. is a word that means like something said. that's trivial or meaningless. So, that. that certainly has a little bit of. weight. Um but another story is that um. apparently McPhail had had told this. story to Hitchcock where he said, "Two. Scottish men are riding on a train. One. man asks the other about the contents of.

a package on the overhead luggage rack.". He said, "It's a McGuffin.". A device for hunting tigers in Scotland. And the other guy said, "But there are. no tigers in Scotland." And he says, "Well, then I guess it's not a. McGuffin.". You still. do not get it. Well, I mean, to me that. just means it's sort of like. that illustrates its meaninglessness. Okay. Okay. We'll go with that. I mean, I. don't see what else it could mean.

I I don't either. I'm I don't see what. it can mean in any case. Like it it's. like Yeah. I I don't know. Who knows? I. think your interpretation's right. I can. kind of sink my teeth into the history. of this cuz you said that it um it. predates Hitchcock, although he. popularized it. Apparently decades. before that, this was um TV Tropes who. pointed this out. There was a silent. film actress named Pearl White. And in. the kind of action cliffhanger serials. that she starred in, they were always. chasing after some like roll of film or.

some treasure or something like that. And um she called them weenies, but they. were essentially what she was saying. They were the plot devices that was. driving all of the characters' actions. I like weenie. I like weenie, too. Yeah, that's pretty good. >> back. Uh my favorite McGuffin, I think, is probably. from Escape from New York. Oh, yeah. The uh cassette tape. Yeah, that's a good one. >> Yeah, there's a cassette tape of Donald. Pleasence as the president. And you.

know, he's trapped on the prison island. of New York, and Snake Plissken is. tasked with going to get him and that. crucially that cassette tape back. because it's some big important speech. to the world, and you don't even hear it. at the end because uh well, I don't want. to spoil it, but you never end up. hearing what's even on that cassette. tape. So, that's sort of a classic. MacGuffin. Um similarly, another John Carpenter um. movie that had um that had a great. MacGuffin was The Thing with um Wilford.

Brimley being the MacGuffin from my. understanding of MacGuffins. Yeah, that's a great movie. Uh you said R2 is the MacGuffin in Star. Wars Episode 4. I think that's awesome. I had never thought about that before, but he's the droid that they're after. cuz he has the plans for the Death Star. Another one that comes to mind is that. mysterious briefcase that um belonged to. Marcellus Wallace that Vincent and Jules. go retrieve um in Pulp Fiction. Yeah. Classic MacGuffin, and that one is I.

mean, I love Pulp Fiction, but that one. definitely seems like Tarantino really. wanted to write in a classic MacGuffin, I think. >> Yeah. And he did. Yeah. And they they also. they never say what was in the. briefcase. >> And it just kind of falls away from the. plot eventually, too. Yeah, for sure. I think I have a bad taste in my mouth. about Tarantino in general lately. Yeah, why what is it about like men who. have [clears throat] power and fame and. reach like their 50s and just completely. just jerk out? I don't [laughter] know.

I don't get it. Well, my time is coming, I guess. No, I think you've passed the uh the. point. >> Okay, so what you hit 54 or 55, then. you're safe. Yeah. Okay. I think you. made it through the great filter of. becoming a jerk. All right, well, your. time's coming, then. I know. I'm really. having to hang on. You'll be all right. Uh I'm going to follow all of your. examples, including your definition. MacGuffin, and I I think we should stop. talking about MacGuffins now. All right, and hey, we'll say this. Uh write in and. we'd love to hear from uh film students.

and film uh cinephiles and and see if. you guys can [music] give us a a clearer. definition. That's a great call, Chuck. Great call. Uh short stuff is out. Stuff You Should Know is a production of. [music] iHeartRadio. For more podcasts. by iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio. app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you. listen to your favorite shows.