Sherlock Holmes: The Man, The Myth | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW

Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a. production of iHeart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm. Josh and there's Chuck and Jerry's here, too. And we're here to sniff you off the. case. with our brand new episode on Sherlock. Holmes. Uh, have you ever read any. Sherlock Holmes short stories or one of. the four novels?

You should have started that off with. Josh. Josh? Yeah, I have. I've never read the. novels. Um, but I've read quite a bit of. the short stories. Yes. Oh, okay. I didn't know you were a. Sherlockian. I'm not I would not call. myself that because if you're a. Sherlockian or in the UK a Holmesian, you are a like one of the original fans. of fandom and I'm I mean I'm not there. like I I don't qualify. No. Okay.

Okay. Well, more than me. So, have you read any? Not a one. Oh, you're missing out. They're really. interesting and fun. Yeah. I mean, not only that, I haven't. really seen any of the stuff either. Um, there's some really good movies out. there. Last night, just to brush up, I. watched House of Fear, okay? Which is based on the short story The. Five Orange Pips. And, uh, it's really. good. Basil Wthbone and Nigel Rogers and. just the straight ahead midcentury black.

and white Sherlock Holmes mystery that. you think of when you think of a. Sherlock Holmes movie, or most people. do. Um, so they're good. They're really, the movies are generally good. Um, I've. seen the worst version. people call the. worst version uh Holmes and Watts. Okay, you saw that? No, but I watched the clip and I was. like, "This is not that bad. This is. exactly what you'd expect from Will. Frell and John C. Riley." Like, what. were you thinking? This is going to be. like high art or something like that. Oh, no. I just heard it was zero funny.

Not that they were expecting something, you know, posh. Well, the clip I saw was at least one. and a half% funny. Okay. It has a half of a star on Rotten. Tomatoes. Uh, all right. Well, let's get into it. because this is a lot. Wait, wait, wait. Hold on. Hold on. Let. me just wrap this up. Okay. Um, yes, you should read some of the. home stories. Okay. Okay. Yeah, let's get into it now. Uh, all right. Well, we're talking about. Sherlock Holmes, the uh infamous, the.

famous fictional detective. Uh, I I. learned I was about to say a lot, but. basically everything about this was new. to me. So, I learned everything brand. new. I was this day years old when I. learned everything. Uh, but one of the things that I did I. did not know for sure is that I always. thought he was uh an official like. Scotland Yard detective. I did not know. that he was an amateur sleuth. and that uh maybe he worked, you know, alongside Scotland Yard at times, but I. just figured he was part of Scotland.

Yard. No, he is the world's first consulting. detective. That's what Arthur Kunan. Doyle, the um author, called him. Another term for that is a private eye. Yeah. So, he would work with Scotland Yard. sometimes, but most of the time he was. several steps ahead of Scotland Yard. whenever they did come in to arrest. somebody. Yeah. Uh so, like I mentioned, there. were four novels. There were 56 short. stories over about a four decade uh plus. period. Mhm.

Um which is a lot of writing. And. apparently uh and this was in 2012 and. he's been in quite a few more. adaptations since then, but he's. Yeah. He's the most frequently uh portrayed. human literary character ever in film. and TV. Yeah. 254 times. Well, no. Way more than that now. Depicted. Yes. By 75 actors. Yeah. More than that now. At the Yeah. At the time in 2012, the. nonhuman who'd been most adapted was. Dracula, and he only had Sherlock Holmes.

beat by like a a handful. Oh, okay. So, there you go. Sherlock Holmes. Everybody loves to portray him. And. that's something we'll try to get to the. bottom of here because what we're. talking about isund. and nearly 50year-old. like detective pulp fiction. that has chapters of fans all over the. world. Sherlock Holmes is one of the. most famous characters ever written in. the history of literature and people are.

nuts for him still today and some people. just like don't get it. And there's. there's something to get but not. everybody can put their finger on it and. we probably won't either but we'll try. Yeah. I mean I think I never read it. because I just don't read uh mysteries. like that. Well, one of the things that separates. him from the mysteries is that he uses. deductive reasoning. like Agatha. Christie, it's like, can you guess who. it is? Maybe there's a clue or something. in there. More often than not, there's. really nothing in there that can tell. you who did it.

With Sherlock Holmes, it might not be in. there either. But what he uses is. deductive reasoning where the kind of. logic and reasoning he's using, like. anybody has that that potential, that. faculty. He's just particularly gifted. with it. So he's I don't know. He's like. a machine as far as logic goes, but he's. also a deeply flawed person in a lot of. ways, too. I think that makes him really. interesting. Yeah. And actually, I need to correct. myself. I did Encyclopedia Brown, as. I've mentioned before, and that's where. that that train ended for me.

was in elementary school. Yeah. But I mean, what a ride it was, right? It was pretty great. Uh Watson is his. sidekick. We'll talk a lot about him as. we go. Um, and the first one was uh a. study in Scarlet in 1887. And uh I mean let's go ahead and I guess. just talk a little bit about how who. Holmes is as a character. He's. right. uh he's definitely like portrayed as. like a genius. Um he's sometimes can be.

very sort of flippant and arrogant. Um. he's not very emotional. Uh Watson says, you know, um that he has no interest in. women and that there's been speculation. that Sherlock Holmes is a gay character. Um he's I believe Watson described him. in a scandal in Bohemia from 1891 as the. most perfect reasoning and observing. machine that the world has seen. But as. a lover, he would have placed himself in. a false position. Yeah. Which you don't want to do,

especially as a gentleman in Victorian. England. Right. Yeah. And a bit of an enigma, right? as. far as just kind of personal life. Yeah. The reason why is because it was. not a main driver of the the series that. Conan Doyle wrote. Like there were. illusions to his life outside of his his. mysteries. Like he was well known to. have a brother named Microoft. He was. really passionate about boxing and he. played the violin. Uh he was also very. famous for um introvenously injecting. cocaine in a 7% solution. Um, and these.

things were just kind of referred to. here or there. Early on, the cocaine was. kind of a driver of his character. Um, he was very self um, obsessed. He was. very melancholy. Like he would shoot. cocaine to like basically get through. the tedium of a day because he was so. smart. He couldn't possibly do so. otherwise. But then as he developed, he. became less of a well, a cocaine addict. and more of a a fully fleshed out. character whose the point and purpose.

was to figure out how to solve these. mysteries using logic and deduction. And. that's what he really became more than. anything else. Yeah. I mean, they've if you've seen uh. if you haven't read and you've only seen. like movie and TV versions, um you've. seen a lot more of a character called. Irene Adler. Mhm. Um Irene Adler is exists far more in the. TV and film side. I believe she was only. in one story. Um so she's been much much. more uh portrayed on screen as maybe a.

maybe a love interest, maybe a um uh uh. what's the word I'm looking for? Sort of. like a foil at times. Um not quite like a a Mori Arti level. Professor Morardi is often the the main. foil and sort of evil criminal. mastermind. Mhm. But Adler definitely exists a lot more. in the film and television world. Yeah. In the in the um world of Sherlock. Holmes fans, they call her the woman. She's the woman who like. But he called her that.

Oh, did he call her that? Okay. Yeah. So, like she's the one who caught his. attention by foiling his his. investigation. Like he figured out what. happened, but he didn't catch the. criminal, and that really caught his. attention. Yeah. I. think he'd only been thwarted like four. times, and she was one of them, right? Yeah. He's also been like famously. diagnosed retroactively with everything. from bipolar 2 disorder, depression, Asperger syndrome, and he's um also. commonly given an INTJ personality type.

from the MyersBriggs test, which is. analytical, logical, and with a strong. intuition. That seems to fit. It does. So going back out into the the. real world, if you're going to take the. Doyian view of all this stuff that it's. actually fiction written by Arthur Kunan. Doyle, the whole thing started in uh. 1886. I think when the first one that you just. mentioned a study in Scarlet was. published in Breitton's um Christmas. annual.

I think it was 87 and I only 87 correct. it because there are Sherlockians and. Homeians Holmesians. Oh yeah. Yeah. We should have totally given a COA. at the beginning of this I think. Yeah, there going to be minor errors. here and there everyone. Sure. So 1887 the first story comes out. studying Scarlet. I think it's actually. a novel. Um it was published in this. Christmas annual and it didn't take off. like a rocket until he started. publishing the shorter stories in a. magazine called The Strand. And this is. at the time that Strand magazine was the.

most widely circulated monthly magazine. in all of Britain. And it just so. happened that Conan Doyle was writing. these stories at a time when Britain had. suddenly become a lot more literate and. they they were hungry for new fiction. So he really kind of came in and brought. Sherlock Holmes in at just the right. time. Yeah. So people are reading this thing. like crazy. Uh I think they ended up. collecting those short stories in well a. collection called The Adventures of. Sherlock Holmes. And like you said, that.

was where I mean, I'm I'm sure the. novels are great, uh, but he only did. four of them. And it's it's really it. seems like these short stories is where. he found uh he found a place to sell a. lot more stuff or, you know, I I guess. sell is one way to say it or write a lot. more stuff. Um, because, you know, it. was they were less than 10,000 words. They were even short for detective short. stories at the time. And I think they. appealed to uh younger people quite a. bit from what I I've read.

Yeah. Because at the time the younger. generation were the were the ones who. had just been educated through the. public education system that had just. been developed. So they were more likely. to be able to read than their parents. just statistically speaking. Yeah. But they didn't want to read some. long novel. They wanted to read a short. story. Yeah. Yeah. And also one of the other. things too that um Conan Doyle figured. out early on that I think people. appreciate because it's so comfortable. and familiar is essentially the same. formula for basically every single one. of the stories.

Yeah. Which I mean it's like. Encyclopedia Brown and any kind of. detective story. Um you're going to have. a client come in or you know it evokes. film noir as well. Uh a client comes in. in this case to the very uh famous. office 221B Baker Street. Mhm. and the client themselves are going. to um be sort of picked apart by Holmes. at the beginning and he's going to make. a lot of deductions about them and then. evaluate the case and then you know hit. the streets maybe maybe in disguise.

um and start doing the investigating of. course solve the case. right. um capture the bad guy and then explain. it all to Watson Scooby-Doo style at the. end uh which I I mean is this I I know. Holmes wasn't the first and We'll get. into that fictional detective, but is. this how that sort of trophy formula. started? Yes. Yeah, 100%. So, none of the first uh fictional. detectives did things like that. No, not in any kind of formula like that. as far as I know, and there were only. maybe a dozen that came before him, but.

they were all just kind of throwing. stuff at the fridge to see what stuck. It was Arthur Conan Doyle, who's the one. who really figured it all out and just. ran with it. That's awesome. Uh they were illustrated. by uh a guy named Sydney Padet and as. far as the the look of Holmes um that. was modeled on Padet's brother Walter. and you know would just interpret. whatever um Doyle was writing as far as. what he would draw. So in the book for. instance you know there's there's two.

things even if you don't know anything. about Sherlock Holmes. and in fact you probably call it the. Sherlock Holmes hat and the Sherlock. Holmes pipe. Yeah. that big curvy huge bell pipe and. then that uh deer stalker cap. That's. what it's, you know, it's what it. technically is, but everyone else just. calls it the Sherlock Holmes hat. But in the book, uh Doyle just says it's. a close fitting cloth cap. He doesn't. say he wore his deer stalker cap. That. was an invention of Sydney Padet. Yeah. And the that pipe is called a. calabash pipe. And like you said, I mean.

like you could draw. you right. you could draw like just a. minimalist um profile of just those two. things and around the world people would. know exactly who that was. It's like the when Michael Jordan had. the Hitler mustache in that TV. commercial. I forgot about. and everyone's like, "Why do you have. the Hitler mustache, right? I totally forgot about. that." Yeah. I mean, that one's You. can't have that mustache anymore. And he. No, no, no. I feel like he should have. known that. No, you really couldn't. From basically. the 1930s onward, it was off the table.

Yeah. I mean, not even it's not like he. was doing it as an homage. I don't think so. But it was definitely like what world is. Michael Jordan living in where he. doesn't know that just nobody does that. Mhm. It was funny. Um, so just one thing real quick for the. Sherlockians and the Homesians. I saw. that it is contested that Walter, Sydney's brother, was the model. Apparently Sydney claimed he wasn't. No, everyone says that he was. So maybe. Cydney Padet was just a pathological. liar. Maybe. I mean, I'd have to see a picture. of Walter to, you know, to know for.

sure. Uh, yeah. Yeah, that's a really good way. to put two and two together, I think. Very homesy in your approach. Oh, elementary. Uh, you want to take a break and come. back? Sure. Uh, yeah. Good timing. We'll be. back right after this. [Music].

By the way, uh we're back. And uh I said. elementary. Um apparently that wasn't. something Doyle wrote. That came from. one of the movies, right? The movies are the first stage play. One. of the two. Yeah, maybe it was stage play. Yeah, I think the closest he wrote was exactly. My Dear Watson. So close. I mean, I'm not knocking. Doyle, but Elementary is so much that's. way catchier, for sure. So, the the the books. themselves or the stories themselves are.

meant to be accounts of the cases of. Sherlock Holmes that were written by his. sidekick, friend, and roommate, um, John. Hamish Watson. He's a doctor. Dr. John. And Yeah, that's that was his side gig. Yeah. Um, so was that the one uh who was. about spending the night together? Uh, yeah. I don't know much Dr. John. I do know. that he was the uh inspiration for the.

Muppet uh band, right? Oh, no. Okay, that's a different one. Okay. I think that was Dr. Hook in the. medicine show I was just doing. Dr. John is awesome. I saw him open for. Cindy Looper once. Oh, wow. That was quite a combination. It really is. No, this is a different. Dr. John. This is Dr. John Watson, sidekick to Sherlock Holmes, and he. supposedly is the one who's narrating. and recounting all of these things. Yeah. And right away, right off the bat, um he is sort of uh picked apart and.

deduced by Holmes when they first meet. Um Watson was an army medic that was. wounded at the battle of uh Maywand in. Afghanistan. And Holmes picks this up. and Watson is like, "Oh my god, who is. this guy?" like I I can't believe this. dude has nailed this uh facet of my life. right away. Yeah, it was the first of many many many. times Watson would be astonished by. Holm's deductive reasoning skills. Yeah, but he's kind of the heart, right? Like apparently Holmes is isn't the most.

likable guy, but Watson really brings. this sort of heart to it. Yes, absolutely. He's uh he's he's warm, he's empathetic, he he's just much it's. it's basically like you and me, right? like you're the heart, you're the. approachable guy, you're the folksy one, I'm the one that's got this general. please don't touch me vibe. It's a it's a bit like that. I'm not. putting myself on the same level of. Sherlock Holmes, but in that sense, I. feel like we resemble the two. Yeah, but that's just cuz you don't want.

people to touch you, please. You know, you can buy it honestly. Yeah. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. It's not. like a put on or anything. I really. don't want to be touched. Um, so we mentioned that there were. fictional detectives before we don't. have to really go through, but there. were like 13 that preceded him, but. Holmes is really the one that um that. came along like you said and used this. um scientific reasoning and and and. powers of deduction and it wasn't just. some dumb blundering uh criminal,

right, uh that kind of gives himself away. And. we'll we'll get into, you know, sort of. why, but it's because Doyle himself was. medically trained and super on the just. in then the know about what was going on. with modern policing and forensics and. stuff like that. Yeah. And and so because of that, he was. able to like really razledazzle his. audience. Like it's stuff that is just. totally commonplace to us, was cutting. edge at the time, like um collecting. blood samples, analyzing like dust and.

dirt and stuff like that to figure out. where it came from. um looking at. handwriting, using microscopes, fingerprinting, um all these things were. like brand spanking new in some cases. where his audience wouldn't have even. heard of or thought about this stuff. Sherlock Holmes is employing these. techniques and in the one on the one. hand it is very razzledazzle like just. as cutting edge as possible at the time. but on the other hand too. he's he's basically he's using science. he's using rational science and the.

scientific method and applying it to. solve any problem. And that was very. much like part of pop culture at the. time. This is prior to World War I where. we showed like just how horrible science. can go where everybody was all about. science. Science can solve any single. problem and Sherlock Holmes is the. embodiment of that. Yeah, for sure. Um we should tick. through a few more of Holmes's sort of. superpowers. uh as written by Doyle. Uh, this is a. pretty fun one that he could he could.

tell what a a man did for a living by. his fingernails, by his coat sleeve, by. his boots, by his trouser knees, by the. calluses of his forefinger and thumb, by. his expression, by his shirt cuff. He was a a safe cracker and a. lockpicker. Uh, apparently could um tell. the difference between 140 different. types of tobacco ash. and uh 42 different bike tire treads. Yeah. He's like, "This is Virginia. Slim." Yeah, that's pretty fun though. Like a pretty fun thing to write like a.

someone with almost superhuman I mean. people have made the case that he's sort. of the first uh superhero in a way. Yeah, for sure. And um but he's again. he's not he's a human person like you. know what I mean? Like he is a genius. He does have Right. Yes, it is true. And. I think that kind of makes Batman more. accessible than say Spider-Man. Uh well Spider-Man was real too. Yeah, but he was bitten by a radioactive. spider. Oh, I see what you mean. Sure. Batman came again came came across his.

his powers through. technology generally. Yeah. Enormous. Well, for sure. But one of the things that that Holmes. was famous for too, Chuck, is is. he he was able to hone in so fully on. catching somebody because he he was very. selective about the knowledge he took. on. Um, in some cases he was just. ignorant about stuff that anybody. walking around would know about. I think. there was a time where in one of the.

stories where um, Dr. Watson is. explaining to him that the earth travels. around the sun and Sherlock Holmes is. like, not only do I not know that, I'm. going to forget it now because I'm I'm. very carefully curate the information. that goes into my mind because I only. want the stuff in there that's going to. help me solve cases. Yeah, I would suggest that that actually could. maybe come in handy with shadows and. sure time changes and stuff like that, but maybe not. Maybe he didn't need. that. You would have been a good Watson. Actually, Sherlock. Yeah, if you think about it, he's like, "No,

no, no, no, no.". I feel like I really would have annoyed. Sherlock Holmes if I had been his. sidekick. Oh, we both would have. Um, so he's he's generally um trying to. do the right thing. Um, he's trying to. catch the bad guy. uh he's trying to to. aid the desperate uh for the most part. He protects England um from corruption. He's there was it was a time where and. Doyle wrote this into the stories where. there were some just sort of notorious. failures of the police um not catching.

Jack the Ripper being one of them. Yeah. And so he would like he would compensate. for those failures. Uh and you know even. though he didn't have like maybe the. best personality, he was he was all. about business and all about getting it. done. Andy was a Victorian gentleman, so. he was an upholder of the social order. and social hierarchies. He he knew how. to navigate that stuff, but at the same. time, he was also a critic of them. Like. he saw very clearly just how arbitrary. and capriccious uh the social. hierarchies in Great Britain were and.

are. And he criticized them personally. to himself. He made no effort or action. to make any changes to them. He just saw. them for what they were, which is. fraudulent and harmful typically. Yeah, for sure. Um, we should probably. talk a little bit more about Doyle. Uh, he was from Edinburgh, a town that we. have performed live in. One of the great. towns in uh, Scotland. One of the great towns in the world. Yeah, absolutely. I should have. broadened that out. It was amazing. I. had. There's only like two towns in Scotland,

too. Oh, come on. We were on such a good path. there. Uh, he trained to become a. doctor. So he had medical training and. it looks like he worked as a sort of. ship doctor on some like a whailing. vessel and a a cargo steamer in West. Africa and he was always a you know a. good and talented writer. And apparently. while he was, you know, not getting his. medical practice uh going to the degree. where he could sustain himself. financially, he wrote this very first.

story. Uh he sold it for3 pounds to a. periodical. Uh and the only well. seemingly the only reason uh he got his. first novel, A Study in Scarlet, uh. published was because the wife of a. publisher uh at Ward Lock and Company. was like, "You got to publish this guy's. novel. It's like it's really good.". Yeah. Yeah. And they're like, "We'll. give you 25 pounds for it, which is. about, I think, 200 lb today, maybe. I'm. not sure. I did the conversion, but I. can't read my own handwriting.". And they were the ones who published. that Breton's Christmas annual. So,

that's where it first popped up. But. after it started to get more and more. popular when they appeared in Strand. Magazine, he started to be able to. command a little more money. So he sold. a dozen to Strand magazine for a,000. which today would be about £110,000 or. £150,000 US. Um, and there's a thing. that that he's fairly well known for. He. wrote the Sherlock Holmes stories. eventually almost against his will for. money. He he considered himself a much.

better writer than a writer of pulp. crime fiction. Yeah. Um, and he wrote the Sherlock. Holmes stories because he he he. essentially needed money all the time, even though he was making gobs of it. Yeah. I mean, it seemed like it's not I. don't think he like um. hated uh his legacy, but it definitely. seemed like everything I read he was. like, you know, I'm writing these other. books, too, and all everyone cares about. are these Sherlock Holmes books, right? Uh he I mean, this is a little fun fact.

He wrote uh the original um book The. Lost World uh which is also a film in. 1925 and Michael Kiteon directly paid. homage uh with his own novel The Lost. World. Uh and it's basically a I mean it's not. the same plot but it's it deals with. people going to a a place in South. America where there are prehistoric you. know animals living. Yes. And Arthur Kand Doyle was the first. person who wrote hang on to your butts. Right. Well, apparently Kiteon was.

inspired to bring back um Malcolm. I. think he killed off Malcolm and brought. him back to life. Oh, yeah. And that was also and I don't know if it. was an homage, but more of like well, hey, Doyle did it with home, so I can do. it with Malcolm. Right. Exactly. Yeah. Um yeah, Doyle. tried to kill off Sherlock Holmes at one. point um unsuccessfully it turned out. And the reason why he had a quote he. said that I have had such an overdose of. homes that I feel towards him as I do. toward pate de fuagra of which I once. ate too much so that the name of it.

gives me a sickly feeling to this day. That's how that's how I just sick of of. Sherlock Holmes he was that it was like. eating too much fuagra which I can. imagine is not a very comfortable. sensation. I'll have none of it. Thank you. Uh, one. thing we talked about Doyle before in. other podcasts, I think when we did. episodes on like spiritualism and. seances and things. Mhm. That was kind of one of his um, aside. from writing these books, he was very. well known for uh, being into. spiritualism uh, after his son died in.

1918. He would go to seances and try to, you know, make contact uh, with his son, which is super sad to think about. Um, I. know that we definitely talked about. them when we mentioned the um the. photograph that supposedly showed real. fairies. uh from Elsie Wright, girls Elsie Wright. and Francis Griffith and Doyle famously. was like, "No, this is totally real, everybody.". Yeah. The Cottingham fairies. Remember, we built a whole episode around the one. thing that should have just been a short. stuff. Yeah, we've done that before.

Yeah. So, it was really surprising and. shocking to Doyle's friends, his fans. It's like this is the opposite of what. Sherlock Holmes would do, you know, get. into spiritualism. But he was tenacious. Like he was a true. believer and he was friends with Harry. Houdini and they were an odd pair. because Houdini was a a voracious. skeptic. He couldn't stand mediums. He. liked to to unmask mediums and Conan. Doyle would support them by going to. them. And he Conan Doyle thought Houdini.

had supernatural powers despite Houdini. saying like no these are all tricks. Yeah. Like I'm just doing these. I'm not. going to tell you how I did it, but. these are tricks. Please believe me. And. be like, "Yeah, I I can read between the. lines. You have supernatural power. Did you just wink at me?". Right. Exactly. It's like Castanza. Yeah. But he was just he was just Yeah, that's a great one. But he was just It. was just his thing. He could not be. persuaded out of believing in.

spiritualism. Uh there's also been a lot. of you know um ideas over his history. about who like who he was based on. Was. there a real Sherlock Holmes? Um the. name itself comes from uh American Dr. Ol Oliver Wendel Holmes. Uh because. again Doyle was a um trained as a. doctor. So I guess that was just an. homage on his part. Uh there's a historian named Angela. Buckley that claims it was a Victorian. police officer named Jerome Camona that. inspired him. But Doyle himself says,

"No, the inspiration was a guy that. taught me in medical school. He was my. third-year instructor of clinical. surgery. His name was Dr. Joseph Bell. And he had this sort of party trick that. he would do and uh in uh lectures and. stuff where he would sort of demonstrate. um uh I almost said Doyle uh Holmesike. qualities of uh deducing things from. little mundane details about about. somebody. Yeah, like where someone had.

been, whether they were a sailor, um if. they smoked. Apparently, very famously, he once said, "Madam, I would ask you to. reveal your pipe." And everyone gasped. as this old lady showed her pipe, and. that was clearly the the the root of her. problem. And he just deduced it from a. lower lip ulcer and a little bit a. little scar on her cheek. He could do. that with everybody. So, that part of. Holmes is definitely from Joseph Bell. I. mean like you said he said as much but. Angela Buckley has a pretty good claim.

that Jerome Kamanada inspired him too. If you look into Camonada he would use. disguises. He was doing police work that. now today is just part of police worker. at the time. He was the only one on the. Manchester force who was doing this. stuff. So it was probably an. amalgamation of a bunch of different. people all combined with Doyle's um. command of science cutting edge science. at the time. Yeah. So, I mean, on that note, we've. talked about how he was using all of. these sort of modern things to inspire. the stories. Um, it actually happened.

the other way as well, which is super. cool. Like, there were real um. investigators that were doing things uh. that they found that Holmes did in the. novels. And I mean, that's super cool. It wasn't. they they they knew that there was sound. science behind it. So, there was I think. there was a French uh criminologist. named Edmund Locar who uh who basically. was like, "Yeah, I I I like do a lot of. the stuff that Sherlock Holmes does in. his books because it's super smart and a. good way to catch somebody." Yeah. And.

um there's also this instance of life. imitating art that showed up in the. story, the problem of Thor Bridge. And. in the story, um, the I guess the. victim, um, takes their own life by. shooting themsel with a gun that's tied. to a rock with a short rope and they. shoot themselves over on a bridge over a. waterway so that as they fall to the. ground, the gun is pulled down into the. water and it looks like it was a. homicide so their family can collect.

insurance. Well, there's no less than. two people out there who seem to have. been directly inspired by the story in. real life did the same thing. And it. turns out that it gets even more twisted. because Arthur Conan Doyle probably got. his idea for the problem of Thorbridge. from a case that was written about by. Austrian criminologist Hans Gross in. 1893. where this this thing actually happened. So you have a case of life imitating art. imitating life.

Yeah. Well, engross is another one of. those who was like picking up stuff from. the novels to use in everyday work. Uh like you mentioned dust, like. gathering dust in packets and Lard was. telling like the police uh the policemen. on his staff like, "Hey, you should read. these. You guys should read these. books.". Yeah. Like Arthur Conan Doyle's. character, Sherlock Holmes, was the. first to basically say, "We need to not. contaminate crime scenes. They need to. be preserved as they are when we come. upon them." This is before cops were. even doing that. like cutting edge cops.

were even doing it. Like he was just. laying down some amazing stuff. Should we take another break. after me saying something like he was. laying down some amazing stuff? I feel. like it's Yeah, we need to. All right, we'll be right back. [Music].

So, we're back. Chuck and um even Conan. Doyle was surprised by how popular his. character was and he couldn't quite. figure out why. He he just assumed it. was a distraction from everyday life. Other people have said it probably also. has a lot to do with the short story. form. Um the fact that they pretty like. action starts taking place pretty. quickly, but at the same time a lot of.

the um stories start out with Watson and. Sherlock Holmes hanging out in their. sitting room and there's like a fire. burning or it's just like like Conan. Doyle adds just enough detail here or. there to really kind of make it. engrossing, but then it takes off and. like we said it it follows that formula. So there's a comforting familiarity to. the whole thing that a lot of people. make. point to is like this is why it's. endured for so long. Yeah. Like a a cozy quality. Yes. Cozy mystery kind of thing, but.

then it branches out into the world of. Victorian London. Uh so like you said, he was surprised. because um not only surprised that like. hey people are really liking this um but. that just wasn't a thing there. That. kind of fandom wasn't a thing. It was. probably the first time that there were. groups of people getting together and. like talking about this stuff and. forming like fan groups. Um. maybe the first fan fiction. Uh as it. turns out, uh JM Barry, who was a a. contemporary, um obviously the the.

creator of Peter Pan, um in 1891, anonymously wrote My Evening with. Sherlock Holmes, uh which is sort of the first fanfic. perhaps. Yeah. Um, and that was kind of a good. example of how he changed um, fandom or. created fandom where where readers. stopped just kind of passively consuming. stuff and started being like, there's a. there's a parasocial exchange going on. here. Like, we own you. You belong to. us. Give us more. You know what George.

RR Martin went through when he hadn't. finished that last um. Yeah. Yeah. that last book. Like that was. essentially Arthur Conan Doyle's fault. Yeah. And like you said earlier when he. tried to kill or well not tried when he. killed them off uh there was a a revolt. Uh there were um 20,000 Strand. subscribers who canceled their. subscriptions. They would write these you know hateful. angry letters uh of the of the time. It. wouldn't be like the hateful angry. letter you would get today. No. Uh I think one of them started with you. brute which is you know that's pretty.

pretty tough language for back then. for sure. Uh, and then so he he needed. money and so he was like, "All right, I. guess I need to write another one of. these things." So, uh, he published, uh, The Hound of the Baskervilles, which. was, uh, sort of a prequel. It wasn't. Bringing him back from the dead just. yet. It was Holmes before he died. Um, he finally resurrected him in, uh, The. Adventure of the Empty House in 1903. and just said he he faked his death.

Yeah. And everybody was like, "Fine, we. don't care. I'm glad you brought him. back.". He said it was magic and they would have. been like, "Okay, fine.". Yeah. And he but he came back with a. just a classic right off the cuff. The. Hound of the Baskervilles is probably. the most well-known Sherlock Holmes case. and it's just a a really well-written. book and it's been adapted into movie. after movie after movie. Apparently, more than 20 of them, I think. Oh, really? I'm surprised it's actually. not more. Um, there was one called Deer. Hun von Baskerville and that was a.

favorite of Hitler's who's now made two. appearances in the Sherlock Holmes. episode. Did not expect that. No. But part of this whole thing that we. kind of I mentioned Doyian. interpretation um earlier. There's this thing that's a part of. being a Sherlock Holmes fan. Again, in. North America they're called. Sherlockians. In the UK they're called. Holmesians. And if you're a Sherlock Holmes fan, there's a really good chance that you. treat this whole thing as if these are. real accounts of real life historical.

happenings that that are the cases of a. real life detective named Sherlock. Holmes. And that these were written by. real life doctor and friend to Holmes, John Watson, and that Arthur Kunan Doyle. was Watson's literary um agent. And that. they it just goes from there. And it's. really important to remember, you don't. just completely take leave of your. senses when you become a Sherlock Holmes. fan. This is all tongue andcheek.

It's all whimsical, but the way that. they treat it is very serious. And um. they use like actual like literary. analysis and and genealogy and all this. stuff to basically tease out as much. information as they can about the real. life homes and real life Watson. And. they call the whole thing the grand. game. And it's definitely a cornerstone. of being a Sherlock Holmes fan. Yeah, it's super cool. And I think the. sort of origins of that were in 1911. when a guy named Ronald Knox wrote a. spoof textual analysis. Uh and he would,

you know, that's where it became he. would say things like sacred writings. and that's when the official cannon was. born. Mh. And uh like you said that lives on today. with the grand game and uh specifically. the the biggest group I mean there's. there's plenty of groups. There's no. shortage. I'm sure there's one in your. town. Uh unless you know you live in. like the tiniest town imaginable, there's probably a Sherlock Holmes group. there you could get get together with. Um but the the most famous one is uh. called the Baker Street Irregulars out.

of New York. Um it is an invitationon group. It was. founded in 1934. and it seems like you know it's pretty. hard to get in. Uh Isaac Azimoff was in. uh FDR was in there. Um I believe the. one in uh England is called the Sherlock. Holmes Society of London. Yeah. and they just they get together, they dress up, they have some dinner, and they play the grand game, which. sounds like a lot of fun, quite. honestly. Yeah, I read in an article, I could not. find it for the life of me, where the. the author, the journalist was invited.

to one of these meetings, and it just. sounded so fun and so cool. Um, but yeah, that's I think it's. interesting that the American chapter is. like the founding fan chapter, fan club. of Sherlock Holmes, not the British one. Yeah. And they actually are so. essentially um powerful that they they. actually grant um like official status. to other chapters elsewhere. I found one. called the Shaka Sherlockians of Hawaii.

They were basically given official. status by the Baker Street Irregulars. It's great website. If you want to know. more in a lot of detail about Sherlock. Holmes, go check out Shaka Sherlockians. It's pretty fun. Uh well, we mentioned um adaptations. There have been tons of them. Uh I said. there have been over 20 film or TV. versions of The Hound of the. Baskervilles specifically. Uh the first. one and yes you are correct that was a. stage version in 1899 from William. Gillette where the the line elementary.

my dear fellow first came along. And uh I mean you name it. How many. movies have there been total? Do we even. know? Um I'm sure somebody million I think. a lot. I Yeah. I'm not. Yes. You bet. your your sweet bippy that there's a. Sherlockian out there. Who knows exactly. how many movies there are. Yeah. I mean I think depending on who. you ask taste differs obviously, but um. The Private Life of Sherlock Holmes from. 1970 from uh Billy Wilder is generally.

regarded as like one of the best. adaptations. Uh even though it was a box. office failure and it had a pretty. troubled production. Mhm. Um it it just brought a little uh wit to. it. um thanks to Billy Wilder obviously. that hadn't been there before. And I. think Wilder definitely hammered home. the subtext that Holmes uh perhaps is. gay. Yeah. He later said that he regretted. not coming out and actually saying it. That was definitely his intent, but it's. ambiguous in the movie. And just reading about the movie in and.

of itself is pretty interesting. Um, but. it's one of the reasons why it's so. beloved by Sherlock fans is the. attention to detail and and that's like. true to the canon is unparalleled. Like. no one I don't think has ever really. done it that well. Even though the. actual like plot and everything that's. going on, the point is just so wildly. outside of the cannon. It's a it's a. weird amalgam of it. Yeah. And that was Robert Stevens played. Holmes in that film. Um, one of the more.

beloved uh, performances was Jeremy. Brett uh, in the 84 through94 Granada. television series. Mhm. Uh, I I don't really know how people. feel about the guy Richie stuff. I. haven't seen those movies or read much. criticism. You haven't seen the movies? No, I' I've literally never seen any. Sherlock Holmes or read any Sherlock. Holmes. Wow. I don't know if the first one you. should see is the the Guy Richie. versions, but they're really interesting. interpretations of it. Um, like they.

they get in fights like they throw they. throw fists and stuff like Sherlock. Holmes beats people up. It's really. interesting, but it it also is very true. to the canon, too. So, I think a lot of. people actually like it. Like even. Sherlockians. All right. Maybe you know what? I have. seen something because I forgot. I have. seen both of the Anola Holmes films. Okay, there you go. Uh, in which Anola Holmes is the 20 year. younger sister of Sherlock. I believe. she's like 14ish in the movies.

Mhm. Uh, and played by uh, what's her name? Millie Bobby Brown, 11 from Stranger. Things. And we watch those with the. family. And Ruby and Emily and I all. quite enjoyed those movies. Okay. So, you like those? I did like those, but Sherlock is very. adjacent in those films. No, for sure. Um, I'm just trying to. think of what the first thing you should. see is. I really don't think it should. be the guy Richie wants. Maybe. Watson. I I don't know. Probably not that. Despite the clip that I saw, it does.

seem to not be very well loved. Cumberbatch. I like Cumberbatch. He He. did a modern one, right? Yeah. And actually, um, you mentioned. that Billy Wilder kind of brought like a. little bit of humor, comedy to it. That. got carried on by Sherlock on BBC. That. was Benedict Cumberbatch. Um, I don't know. I I can't really recommend. what to go into. Hopefully some of our. um bigger Sherlockian fans can recommend. where to start to you because you really. should. You should at least see one. thing if not read one thing and just see.

what you think. I like Johnny Lee Miller and that. elementary sounds interesting. Okay. Do you like Lucy Lou, too? Uh yeah, sure. She and there. Well, there you go, my friend. You're. going to love elementary, I think. Uh maybe I'll check out one of those. But I mean, there's somebody in my head. that I picture from a kid. Would that. have been the the TV show? The one I. mentioned is as uh the most like beloved. portrayal maybe. Jeremy Brett, you weren't a kid in 1984. I wasn't a kid in 1984. No, you were nearly a grown man at age.

14. I. was 13. Thank you. No. Okay. That may be the one I'm thinking in my. head because I just when I think in my. mind of Sherlock Holmes as a as a TV. portrayal or whatever, this one dude pops into my head and I. bet you that's who that is. Did you. watch a lot of Masterpiece Theater as a. 13-year-old? A little bit here and there. Oh, maybe that that is what it was. Yeah, supposedly he's he is the one who did. the best out of all of them. All right. Interestingly though, Johnny Lee Miller. was the one who's portrayed him the most.

with 104 154 episodes on that show. Elementary. That was a little trivia for. you. That's modern times set, right? Yes, that and Sherlock are both set in. modern times. And if you go back to the. actual stories, they're all set in. Victorian England, even though he was. writing them well outside of Victorian. England by the time he wrapped them up. Well, this all brings up the sort of. ending here is that um can anyone just. make this or do they have to pay for the.

rights or is it still in uh is it in the. public domain? And the answer is it's. been fairly complicated uh for for a. while now. I mean, up until recently, that is. Yeah. So his sons, one of their widows, a producer and someone else basically. got together when Conan Doyle died in. 1930 and they were like, "Mine, mine, mine, mine, mine." And they managed to. gather up all the rights to all of the. Sherlock Holmes writing, the character, everything, and consolidated it into.

Conan Doyle Estate Limited. And if you. had anything that you wanted to do with. Sherlock Holmes, you had to go through. them and you had to pay them whatever. they wanted essentially. and they ruled. Sherlock Holmes's intellectual property. with an iron fist for almost a century. Um, and they really got a bad reputation. for it. But despite that, that just goes. to show how popular Sherlock Holmes is. People kept dealing with them to make. Sherlock Holmes movies, books, fanfiction, um, analysis, basically.

everything. Amazing. Um, there was one pretty famous. case where uh the movie 7% Solution from. the 70s from 1974. from director Herbert Ross. Uh, apparently they thought it was in the. public domain and it wasn't. Man, what a what a surprise that would. have been. Yeah. How do you I don't know. Maybe I. guess things were different back then in. ' 74. But how does a studio not know. that when they greenlight it? I don't know. That one was interesting. though. I looked it up. Um, I was about. to ask if you'd seen it, but I know the. answer to that. Apparently, Sherlock.

Holmes' cocaine use spirals out of. control and Watson sends him to Vienna. to be cured by Sigman Freud. Yeah. Supposed to be pretty weird. Yeah. It's pretty interesting sounding. though, too. But they ended up making. it. I think they just had to pay. retroactively for it. Yeah. That's when they've really got you. over a barrel. But yeah, I know. But the um the the. copyright ran out finally unambiguously. to all Sherlock Holmes stuff just this. past 2023 I guess, right? Yeah, I think.

uh initially it ran out in the UK in. 2000 and then it was 98 in the US. But. there was a family argument that like no. he wrote these over over a long period. of time over decades. Mhm. So like the whole thing needs to go. uh expire by the last story he wrote was. their argument. Yeah. Because because he was so. developed that like he was a flat. character and really the character of. Sherlock Holmes that everybody portrays. is the final ones that we own the.

copyright too. And I think a judge. finally told them to go soak their heads. essentially said that what they their. strategy was a form of extortion. Yeah. So they finally lost it. I don't know. what they're doing um nowadays. Oh I. know what they're doing. They're. essentially authenticating new stuff so. you can get their blessing and make it. like an official Sherlock Holmes mystery. that you wrote. But that's why something like Will Frell. and John C. Riley's uh Holmes and Watson. could come along, right? They could just. do it all of a sudden.

I think that was I think they would have. had to have paid for it because I think. it was from like 2018. Okay. So even though Yeah, I guess the. family won that argument then, huh? Yeah. Yeah, I don't think they lost too. many cases. I think it was quite near. the end of the copyright. Yeah. So, I'm sure that they had to pay. for the use of that and I'm sure they. lost money on it. Well, I wonder now. I mean, I don't. think so far we've seen any like. abomination where they've, you know, like they make Mickey Mouse a serial.

killer and stuff now. And. yeah, uh I I I'm curious to see if they're. someone's going to do like a Sherlock. Holmes thing where he's the baddie. Yeah, I'm sure some true some stuff you. should know listeners went, "Wow, that's. a good idea, Chuck. It's a really bad idea because people. would be pretty angry, I would imagine.". Yeah, you don't want to mess with. something like that. He's good. Yeah. I mean, Will Frell's just now. recovering. Um, I want to give a couple of shouts. out. First of all, uh, Kyle, our writer, Kyle, uh, helped us out with this one.

So, if we got anything wrong, blame. Kyle. And then also we heard from friend. of the show Richard Fwall um who wrote. in when we first talked about doing a. Sherlock Holmes episode on some other. episode and he's like yes do and listen. to Steven Fry's audible um collection of. all of the Sherlock Holmes canon works. He said even if you don't do that listen. to Steven Fry's like introductions to. each of the collections. Um and I listened to one of them and. he's right. They're amazing. Just um.

charming interpretations of what's going. on in these and the way the effect that. they had in real life. Um so you can go. out and listen to that on Audible. Apparently it's 72 hours long. Oh wow. Well, can you imagine? We can vouch and say that uh due to our. selects episodes on Saturdays, sometimes. the intro is the best part. For sure. Oh, and one more thing I want. to shout out. Um I guess you haven't. seen this either. You've have to see. this. No matter what you think of. whatever people tell you to watch or.

read, see Mr. Holmes eventually with Ian. Mckllen. Um, just the most artouse of. the Sherlock Holmes movies. It's so. good. Um, but it's about him retired as a. beekeeper, which is part of the cannon, too. I love Ian Mckllen, so I'll check that. out. Okay. But just put it off to the side. Don't make that the first one you see. Okay. Um, I think that's it, Chuck. Great. Sherlock Holmes, I'm going to I'm. going to watch something. I promise. everybody I'm going to watch something. Yeah. Write in and let Chuck know what.

he should watch first. Or read something even better. Yeah, same thing. All right. Okay. Uh well, since Chuck said right, that means it's time for listener mail. Hey guys, on the Anaconda episode, you. tried to work out how in the heck green. anacondas made it to Trinidad when the. Caribbean island is separated from. Venezuela by mere 7 milesi of ocean. water. Well guys, I'm from Trinidad, so. maybe I can help. We can easily see. Venezuela from certain parts of our. country. And that's because Trinidad, unlike the other islands of the. Caribbean, is not connected to the ocean.

floor. It actually rests on the. submerged continental shelf that extends. from the coastline of Venezuela into the. Atlantic Ocean. All the other islands in. the uh Caribbean uh archipelago are. volcanic, reaching up from the seafloor, but not us. Ours is a continental island. that was once part of the South American. mainland. Uh essentially there was a. land bridge between Trinidad and. Venezuela as recently as the last ice. age. Uh as such our flora and fauna are. pretty much identical to those found in.

Venezuela and even deeper into South. America and hence anacondas baby. Uh. they terrified my childhood because they. uh are in our rainforest and big ones. would come into town bordering the. forest where uh like where I lived. Uh. anyway, I stopped the podcast mid stream. to quickly tell Josh in real time your. hypothesis was spot on. Thank you. I. love emails like that. Uh, warmest regards. And that is from. Rall. Thanks, Rall. That was a great great. email. Uh, and we appreciate it. Thanks.

for clearing that up for us. If you want. to be like Rell, you can send us an. email too at stuffpodcast@. iheartradio.com. Stuff you should know is a production of. iheartradio. For more podcasts, iHeart. Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple. Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your. favorite shows. [Music].