Selects: Why Landmines Are The Deadliest Legacy Of War | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW

hi everybody Chuck here on Saturday with. uh an important show to uh curate here. on this select Saturday it was an. important episode uh a pretty depressing. one though because it's about the. history of landmines and it's from April. 10th 2018 why landmines are the. deadliest Legacy of. [Music]. War welcome to stuff you should know a. production of iHeart Radio.

[Music]. hey and welcome to the podcast I'm Josh. Clark and there's Charles W Chuck Bryant. there's Jerry Roland back together again. at last just like last week yeah I was. about to say what are you talking about. you know what I'm talking about Willis. what you talking about um oh that was a. pretty good one subtle. understated um so Chuck how you feeling. today m I'm kind of tired of this.

weather yeah it's pretty nasty huh yeah. I mean it's almost April in Atlanta and. it's still cold at night it's um and. during the day for that matter it. usually like the the way that Atlanta is. for those who don't know it'll be cold. cold cold like really cold down in the. freezing sometimes it'll snow and then. it'll start to warm up and then at the. end of February boom one more snow out. of nowhere and then spring that's not. how it's going this time no no and it's.

been like real gloomy and dismal huh. yeah I got the sads it it's okay it'll. it'll clear up soon enough Easter's on. its way Peter Rabbit's gonna bring us. some sunshine in springtime good and. poison. eggs poison eggs is no you're you're. thinking of Halloween candy oh. right so um today Chuck we're not. talking about Halloween or Easter or. even the weather we're talking about. something um. that has become kind of a international.

Global issue rightfully so in like the. best way possible uh because in this. case the International Community the. global Community has kind of come. together to try to alleviate a a really. overlooked problem literally and. figuratively overlooked problem um. landmines yeah and has been this isn't. like a brand new effort no but uh it's a. little daunting to say the least and.

depressing it is um there's something. like I saw there's all these really like. you say depressing statistics all over. the place when you look into landmines. fortunately although they are daunting. they're not so daunting that people are. just like forget it we're not even going. to do this right but I saw something. like uh it would take 1100 years at the. current pace of progress to remove all. the landmines on Earth right now that. are buried on Earth if not another. single one is laid Yeah well part of the.

problem though was the number they're. laying landmines 25 times faster yes. than we're Gathering up old landmines. yes yeah that's the issue yeah it's. something like I saw between two and a. half million and five million landmines. are laid every year new ones and more. than a 100 million in over 70 countries. around the world yeah uh that's a lot in. places where there's no War or conflict. going on any longer that's the big. problem with landmines well there's a.

couple problems one they're. indiscriminate they don't they they. don't recognize whether you're a. civilian or um a a soldier yeah they. stick around long after the conflict is. is over and they still manage to to kill. and maim thousands of people every year. around the world which and apparently. it's on an upswing thanks to um the. conflicts in Yemen and Syria and and. some of the work of Isis as well just so.

depressing it really is there's like. there's nothing that really. more that like kind of embodies like. just the mute. killing maming aspect of War than a. landmine it's just a dumb lump of. explosive that you step on and it blows. you up you know what I mean yeah and. especially the the years later effect. which is maybe there hasn't been War for. two decades mhm and a little kid can. still will come along and say oh what's.

this thing and then they don't have legs. yeah and the kids thing is is real so. apparently. landmines kill disproportionately kill. civilians way more than soldiers because. of their ability to be left over after a. war and the most recent statistics from. 2016 the majority of the civilians. killed were children yeah I was I was. actually I was talking to Yumi about it. she grew up on okanawa and there's a lot. of World War two unexploded ordinance.

around there and she was telling me that. they used to watch like educational. films saying like if you see something. metal in the woods stay away go tell an. adult yeah that was like the the movies. they were they were taught you know oh. I'm sure yeah when you're raised in an. area where and we're talking about. landmine specifically but uh in a lot of. cases they're just unexploded bombs and. things like that too yeah I I know like. they find something like a hundred tons. of it in Belgium alone every year most. of it from World War I still wow so but.

we are talking specifically about. landmines which seem to kind of bear the. focus of the international efforts to to. get rid of them because they are. probably the biggest problem of. unexploded ordinance today yeah uh well. should we go back in time here and talk. about the history yeah I think so yeah. this one was interesting. because I don't think a lot of people. when they hear about landmines know that. they started in.

like legit started during the American. Civil War no I I thought World War II at. the earliest yeah so uh in the American. Civil War they were called uh Torpedoes. or Subterra shells there was a man a. North Carolinian named Gabriel Reigns MH. who initially fought for the union but. then said wait a minute I'm from North. Carolina I'm not actually sure how that. switch happened he's like North. Carolina's with the South. aay uh uh but he was the first person to.

um sort of play around with these and. eventually get a patent called The Rains. patent on what essentially was a very. sort of early crude but effective land. mine yeah and so this is at a time when. like pitched battles are still the norm. sure where like your your infantry meets. my infantry in a field and like you do a. bunch of shooting and then we do a bunch. of shooting and then there's advancement. in R treats and cannons and stuff like.

that is it our turn to shoot or their. turn I forgot I mean pretty much right. and there's people like picnicking. watching the battle like that's how. that's how staged they were yeah and and. the Confederacy didn't necessarily play. by those rules they did in many battles. for sure but they also definitely had a. a a a gorilla facet to them as well and. this definitely screams Guerilla Warfare. because the the Union Army was taken. totally off guard by the early um.

landmines that they encountered yeah and. it was not something that was uh readily. accepted into Warfare the the generals. were um well everyone was scared first. of all once they they got wind of what. these things were they're all of a. sudden like what like I can like we're. literally just walking through the woods. and now we can just die right with no. enemy nearby and apparently uh Gabriel. Reigns himself was one of the first to. lay a bunch of these from the road to. Richmond after the defeat of a battle.

and that's when they first uh the Union. Army first encountered these things well. yeah so not only were they scared but. then the the you know the the hierarchy. the generals were pretty ticked off they. were like this is you know one of the. quotes is the rebels have been guilty of. the most murderous and barbarous conduct. so they were not welcomed into Warfare. they thought it was sort of a cheap. trick and a dirty a dirty rotten thing. to do yeah and like you said it's the. troops it it upset the generals and.

these were not just like landmines like. we think of them now they were like. booby trapped like they put them in. flower sacks so when you reached into a. a flower sack boom that blew up they put. them around like if the if the. Confederates abandoned like an outpost. they would put them around the well. around the water like places they knew. the union troops were going to go and. you could either set them off by. stepping on them like a modern land mine. or they would attach things like tools. to him with like a string so you would.

bend down and pick up the tool and and. set off this landmine that was buried. nearby um and at first the Confederates. too some of the Confederate hups are. like I don't know if this is okay yeah. even even in a a Civil War and we're you. know the Confederacy we're we're in some. ways a a Guerilla Army I'm not sure we. should be using these and then finally. after a while they're like okay we we. kind of need every tool we can get in. the toolbox and they they acquiesced and. started using them and spread them all.

over the South apparently yeah and they. don't have any uh figures on the. soldiers that were killed but they do. know that uh total between uh the union. and the Confederates 35 well actually. that's not true 35 Union ships went down. one Confederate ship went down which I'm. taking was an. accident um I don't know maybe either. yeah but remarkably it says uh here in. this article you sent that they found. them they were still finding them in the. 196 s in.

Alabama yeah which makes you wonder I. wonder like how many are there still out. there like in around Atlanta you know I. don't know I mean. surely none right well you would hope. also that after this time the the. explosives would have decayed enough. after being exposed to weather for this. long one of the articles that we used. said that the um that landmines modern. landmines have a a a useful life of over. 50 years surely by now whatever they had.

attached to the the Confederate. landmines are no longer useful even if. you did find them in the woods I would. think so which is not to say you should. do like a belly flop on it to test it. out you find something that even vaguely. resembles a land mine in the woods of. the southeastern United States run and. tell somebody yeah that is the the worst. way to test out whether or not a land. mine is still capable of working agreed. is the belly flop method y so the uh the. Civil Wars where they got their start. and and they came into use pretty.

quickly after they were invented uh but. it was World War I and then really World. War II where they they really came into. focus and our article from how stuff. works um says that the the landmines for. World War I and two were. invented to prevent people from picking. up the landmines that were originally. invented to blow up. tanks yeah I mean there were certain. they realized that there were a few uses.

they could either uh lay a Minefield to. keep a a group of troops and or tanks. from going to a certain place uh. sometimes it was to reroute a group of. people and tanks to a different area cuz. they're like oh well we know that's. Minefield so we got to go this way right. which might play right into the plans of. the opposition uh and then sometimes. it's just to slow slow everybody down. until they can get reinforcements right. so I mean there is a use for this spefic. besides just blowing somebody up there's.

a larger strategic use for I hadn't. really thought about I always thought it. was just you know a nasty way of blowing. somebody up by chance you know but it. really does send a message too which is. don't keep going straight you're going. to have to go one way or another because. obviously this place is mine and and. really there's only one way to find out. whether a place is mine too especially. during Warfare like it's not like the. the enemy posts a sign that says we've. mined this field. suckers yeah like you find out because.

one of them goes off either on a tank or. one of your soldiers you know well yeah. and if one of them goes off it it's. there I don't think they were using like. random Rogue landmines it was more. likely a Minefield right so um World War. II is where they really kind of came. into play one of the things I saw is. that one of so I guess by the Numbers. the most mined place in the world as far. as countries go is Egypt oh really I was.

like what I mean by a long shot Egypt. has something like um I think. 230. million no sorry 23 million mines un. exploded around Egypt Egypt's not that. big right holy cow I think they have. like 60 per square kilometer square mile. something like that so they've got 23. million miles and I was like why Egypt. and it was the Nazis during the the. North African theater fighting. in World War II the nais mined all over.

around there but apparently Egypt got. the brunt of it and there's still 23. million unexploded mines by they. estimate in Egypt from World War II. should we take a break yeah let's all. right we'll take a break and we'll come. back and we'll talk about the two main. types of landmines that we're going to. cover today right after this.

y. y. [Music]. y all right so uh for the purposes of. this and you know there are more than. 350 types of of M so that would be. exhaustive to go through all those but. uh the way our article breaks it down. which makes sense to me or and the two. main groups which are anti-personnel. mines and anti-tank mines mhm um they.

both do about the same thing which is. explode after pressure is put on them. but in the cases of a tank of course. they're going to be bigger with more. boom and require more weight uh in order. to make it go boom right more pressure. yeah so the um the the anti. anti-personnel mines those are much. lighter much smaller much cheaper and I. think found in much greater abundance.

around the world for sure um there's. there's one that this article covers. called the. M14 blast mine and we should say there's. actually a few different types of Mines. especially as far as anti-personnel. mines go right yeah so um there's this. the the standard blast mine which is you. step on it it goes boom um and bad. things happen to you as a result there's. the bounding mind or bouncing mind um.

basically it means the same thing where. you step on the mind uh a fuse is lit. that that ignites a propeller charge. which shoots the mine upward from under. under the ground just barely covered. over by the ground up to about Chester. head height which then the mine explodes. yeah so it's designed to do even worse. damage yeah those are called bouncing. betties or uh German s mines um either. for spring or or shrapnel and. I think I've seen those in movies before.

uh that stuff is just nuts man you step. on something and all of a sudden it it. bounces up in the air to about your. chest and makes a a horrible whizzing. sound too if I remember correctly yeah I. mean talk about uh like just sheer. intimidation Factor too sure um and so. the bouncing mine or the bounding mind. is is meant clearly to kill the um blast. mine is meant to MIM it's probably it. may not kill you although you could die. of like your injuries later on from like.

an infection or something like that um. or you could bleed out if it if it if it. got enough of your femoral artery you. would be in big trouble there but it's. it's designed mainly just to maim you. take you out of commission whereas. abounding mine is meant to to to blow. you up and kill you then there's a. fragmentation mine that's the third type. of anti-personnel mine and and I don't I. mean like for those of you out here you. can't see me and Chuck but our fingers. are kind of like digging into to the. tabletop right now it's all unnerving.

this is just so grim and gruesome you. know it's not it's not we're not even. talking about shooting somebody it's. talking about these things designed to. blow somebody up or blow their leg off. you know yeah and I think what's most. disconcerting about like like a a. Minefield of blast Minds is the the. purpose to lay a Minefield of blast. Minds is. to almost certainly reroute somebody or. to keep somebody from going somewhere so. it's not like they're saying we're going.

to put down 300 mines here because we. want to blow off 300 ft of soldiers uh. they just have to scatter them so a. couple of people get their feet blown. off and they go holy cow we're in a. Minefield we got to go a different. direction right but the the residual. effect is there's still 298 of those. things out there mhm you know it's like. a a numbers game so it's just it's like. the lowest common Den denominator of of. uh strategy almost yeah yeah but it's.

effective which is why they keep using. them yeah and I think also like if the. the arm the army that was retreating. laying those mines in their wake if they. got 300 feet blown off they'd be fine. with that even though that like you say. that's not the that's not the ultimate. aim of it it's to to redirect people or. to stall them until reinforcements can. come for you well yeah and you don't. keep going like after it happens a. couple of times or maybe even once mhm. you don't think well let's just press on.

and see what happens right maybe that. was a fluke maybe that was a geothermal. Spring right and um you you talked about. someone's foot being blown off. supposedly the nickname for the M14. blast mine which we'll talk about in a. second those are called Toe poppers. which kind of undersells it to me I. think yeah so um the last one the last. type of anti-personnel mine um is a. fragmentation mine and that's meant to. get a bunch of guys all at once all. around you and it may not um it may not.

take off their leg it may not kill. anybody but it's certainly going to slow. down several um several soldiers at once. because these blow up and they shoot. fragments everywhere yeah like a pretty. long way right so uh the Claymore Mine. is a an example of a fragmentation. grenade or a fragmentation um mine and. then so too are cluster mines which kind. of fall into a different category. because they're dropped out of bombs.

typically dropped from aircraft they. fall out of cylinders hundreds of them. and then when they hit the ground they. blow up and shoot hundreds of fragments. so each of those hundreds of small mines. shoots out hundreds of fragments the. reason they become de facto landmines is. because not all of them blow up and so. they can be found later and then blow up. when they're being handled by a kid or a. curious civilian or something Playmore. with Claymore remember that from The. Simpsons no oh I think it was Bo it was.

a long time ago but I think that was. like a poster in the shop of like a army. navy store or something like the guy the. guy missing an arm oh maybe so yeah I. remember that was like one of the first. season ones I'll bet it was old for sure. I forgot about him oh and by the way our. buddy Kevin Pollock just guessed it on. The. Simpsons after that many years I would. have thought he would have been on by. now but he did like two or three voices. this past week I did not know that I got. to see that one yeah it was good how did.

he do did he crack Under Pressure yeah. he did a great job I'm sure he did uh. all right so the M14 is um these are. small like it fits in the palm of your. hand it's about an inch and a half 1.6. inch tall and about 2.2 in in diameter. and we developed this here in the US in. the 1950s and it has been sort of a. go-to around the world since then uh. this one is not a very a big boom um but.

it does cause damage with these little. these little silver bbb's that it shoots. out that's the toe popper one yeah so oh. it does have BB's that it shoots out I. thought it was just a straight up blast. mine oh I thought this one had BB's. maybe not I don't know um I I know that. this I don't know possibly it could be. modified but it is small and it it looks. like a mean little hockey puck basically. yeah the meanest the whole the and one. of the things that you're going to find. um in Minds throughout the world is.

something that's called a Belleville. spring MH and it's basically like a. washer that you put on um well a. bolt you know what else you going to put. a washer on you weirdo so it's a washer. but is kind of popped upward on one side. so the the Belleville spring holds up. the firing pin but when you put enough. pressure on it and you overcome the. pressure the upward pressure being. exerted by the Belleville spring it kind. of Pops downward and when it does that.

it Taps that firing pin which shoots. down into the The Detonator it's really. cheap really easy to to use and really. effective and it's it's found through in. minds of all different types and. varieties It's usually the thing holding. everything in place and then that's what. pressure overcomes is a Belleville. spring and they're found in the M14. mines as well yeah it's sort of like uh. like the hand grenade it's not a very. sophisticated piece of gear um it's very. kind of rudimentary and on all of them.

there's some sort of safety clip just. like a grenade you remove the clip and. usually there's some sort of switch that. either says I mean it doesn't say this. but basically it says either boom or no. boom and you switch it to boom and set. it down and walk away yeah backwards I. assume uh yeah slowly um and yeah you. cover it up maybe with some leaves a. little bit of dirt just enough so that. it can't be seen but not enough that you. would dampen the blast all or make it so. that any of the pressure is dampen and.

all it takes is like 20 lb or 9 kg of. pressure from say somebody stepping on. it and that sets off the I think it's. got something like uh how many grams of. tetrol in it 31 grams in the M14 so that. again that's not very much but it's. enough that you will say lose your foot. or if you're stepping directly on it you. may lose part of your leg and not. necessarily right then but you may have. to have it amputated later on which. makes it even year I understand the.

point of this it's like there's one. soldier who's not fighting anymore he's. over there sapping the healthare. resources of the the The Med medical. core but I mean that's that's a that's a. lifelong injury that's a nasty thing to. put down as a. $3 um A3 weapon that's just left behind. under the dirt Yeah by by the hundreds. by the thousands by the millions. apparently every year yeah imagine that. setting these is a little unnerving too. like I know that technically even for.

these small ones it takes however many. pounds of pressure mhm but it's it's. still probably a little bit unnerving. when you flip that thing to on and scoop. a little dirt on top of it yeah I mean. you don't want to like throw a dirt. Chunk on it or anything like that yeah. or or what about being the guy who. drives the truck that has crates full of. those things in the back yeah you're. just hoping that all of them have the. safety in yeah so that's the M14 that's. the one that's probably the most common. throughout the world mostly because it's.

the cheapest like I said it costs about3. us to make one of those things although. supposedly it costs about ,000 dollar to. remove one man that well that's part of. the problem too yeah for sure so the M16. is another kind this is one of the. bounding uh or fragmentation mines that. we're talking about that pop up from the. ground uh and that has three main. components the mine fuse uh propelling. charge to lift it out like you said uh. and then this cast iron housing and it. is it is bigger it's about almost 8 in.

tall and about 5 in in diameter and it. has about a little over one pounds of. TNT inside so that's that's quite a bit. of boom Going On yes and again when you. when you either step on the thing and. you overcome the upward pressure from. the Belleville spring or I think these. things can also be booby trapped so like. a a a wire can be attached to a uh the. the firing pin either way the the firing. pin shoots down ignites that um that.

percussion cap which sends the thing. upward and then a second Detonator. that's been on a delay fuse explodes. once it reaches about three feet or a. meter into the air yeah I think one of. the the scariest parts of this one too. is at least in the movies there's like. that Split. Second uh where you're a soldier and you. see that thing pop up in the air and you. know what's coming right yeah with a. with a regular old blast mine it's like. step boom you know you probably don't.

have much of a chance to register that. you just stepped on something no whereas. yeah that fragmentation M and and again. like the sound that it makes is just. horrifically unnerving yeah well I. should say at least from the movies yeah. yeah when movies are always right yeah. um speaking of movies though like in The. Hurt Locker I know and I've seen in. other movies like um I think generally. you step on it and once that pressure is. released is when the boom happens mhm so.

I remember episodes of maybe mash and. other like war movies I've seen there. have been like soldiers would step on. one and hear the click and then be like. well I've got to stand on this thing now. until we figure it out right I was under. that impression too but nowhere in my. research did I find that to be the case. oh really yeah for me everything I saw. was once you step on it and that. pressure overcomes the Belleville spring. the firing pin is shot downward into the. detonation cap and then once that.

happens or the Detonator I should say. once that happens the whole thing. explodes there's not like a once you. lift up then the pressure or the firing. pin is dropped my guess is that they did. not completely create that out of whole. cloth and out of the 350 types of. landmines that some of them probably do. that yeah yeah you're probably right I'm. just saying I didn't run across any that. had that and I noticed that as well so. next up we have the the tank mines that. we were talking about um with the.

arrival of Tanks basically is when we. started getting these anti-tank mines. and they're much much larger and they. require at least like 300 plus pounds of. pressure so unless you're a a Big Boy. Soldier then you're not going to. detonate them by stepping on them it's. still probably again I don't think you. would give that a try and say I only. weigh 275 let me see what happens yeah. but uh those are built to. uh disable a tank sometimes it can have.

so much boom that it can it can kill. people around it but generally it's to. blow the the the tracks off of the tank. right and yeah so once the tank is. disabled that's a a a big yeah that's a. big win so um again they started making. those from what I can understand as far. as World War I goes they made those. first and then they made the the. anti-personnel ones to keep people from. just going up and picking up up the the. mines and removing them yeah so like.

they'll surround an anti-tank mine with. several uh anti-personnel mines right. and you said it has a big boom to it. it's this thing is um it has 22 almost. 23 pounds which is over 10 kilogram of. composition B yeah which is TNT and RDX. yeah that's a lot of Boom it is a lot of. Boom um and if you have ever seen. anybody removing uh anti tank mine you. get the impression that yes it would it.

would tear a tank up pretty pretty well. yeah and you want to take another break. and then come back and talk about. removing some of these things yeah let's. do it. [Music]. okay y y. [Music]. you should. [Music].

know okay Chuck so we've talked about. what's out there and how many are out. there there are people who are dedicated. to removing these things yes as a matter. of fact a group uh formed the uh an. international land mine treaty Ban. Treaty um to basically Outlaw those. things and there's 164 countries that. have signed it most of those I think 163.

have ratified it and it basically says. that we are not going to produce. stockpile or transfer any mines any. longer land mines of any kind any longer. and we're also going to work toward. removing old mines and getting rid of. them and then financially and medically. assisting the uh survivors or victims of. landmines casualties of landmines uh. specifically I think civilians who have. undergone who've been blown up by a land.

mine and they they I think they formed. in like 1995 and within two years they. won the Nobel Prize yeah this is an. interesting one because the US and Cuba. are one of the only two Western. countries that have not signed on to. this MH um however the US is also. probably the leading country in the. world at pouring money into landmine. eradication and support uh and for their. money they say listen. the I mean this is what they say at.

least they say the only reason that. we're not signing on to this is because. of the demilitarized zone between North. Korea and South Korea we need that line. of defense so North Korea cannot March. in there and attack our Ally in South. Korea um I don't know whether to believe. that I know the Obama Administration. came close to signing on but he never. did uh it's virtually guaranteed that. the Trump Administration won't sign on. uh there's like a 0% chance of that. happen happening but the more and more.

uh nuclear capable North Korea gets the. less and less uh reason that you're. going to have to have those landmines um. scattered throughout the DMZ there right. so I don't know whether to buy that or. not but they say that that's the reason. and to their credit they do spend more. money and time and efforts trying to. clear the world of landmines in any. other country I think yeah yeah they're. definitely a leader in reality but. they're still criticized or the US is. still criticized by for not having. signed to this treaty because there's a.

lot of other states that may actually. follow suit if the United States did. they're in the company of um Iran uh. Israel um aeran a lot of for yeah Russia. a lot of former Soviet satellite States. um China some pretty big players in uh. in as far as Global militaries go right. or militaries around the world go so if. the United States did that it would. exert some pressure on some of the other. ones but like you said the Trump.

Administration is not huge on. International treaties and um this I. think it was the New York Times. editorial board that said there's a 0%. chance of assigning it right yeah but we. are still one of the leaders and. actually removing mines the United. States military stockpile is pretty. small I think it's around three million. right now and as far as I know we're not. deploying anymore and we really haven't. since I think 2003 uh in Iraq when we EV. invaded Iraq that was the last time we.

laid landmines um as far as the US goes. right yeah and 3 million sounds like a. lot and it is but compared to like a. Russia which has like between 20 and 30. million it's not as many so one thing. that that like I thought that was pretty. odd too I was like the the DMZ that's. what that's why we're not signing on to. this landmine treaty that's weird and. then I started looking up cluster bombs. and there's another treaty kind of like. a corollary treaty to the international.

landmine treaty um to ban cluster bombs. as well and that has some it's much. newer but it has I think a pretty decent. amount like 120 countries already signed. on to it but um with cluster bombs I was. looking up the pentagon's reasoning for. not signing under this. treaty so back in I think. 2008 the Bush Administration said the US. will sign this this cluster Bomb b. treaty if we have not developed cluster.

bombs that have a failure rate of 1% or. less meaning only one out of every. hundred of those little bomblets that. comes out of the cluster bomb cylinder. yeah doesn't explode upon contact right. um and apparently just within the last. few days the Pentagon said well the. deadlines 2019 we haven't developed. cluster bombs that have that low of a. failure rate so we're just going to. ignore that and keep using cluster bombs. and the the report said it's because.

they want to reserve the right to use. them in case of a ground war with North. Korea so I'm like what do you guys know. that we don't know yeah like is there is. it is it really that eminent a ground. war with Korea that we we need to. reserve the right to use cluster bombs. and in landmines still that like is it. is it are we that close to the knife's. edge and if so then this the whole the. whole nuclear thing makes me even more. nervous than it did before. yeah it should all make you nervous it.

does so I'll tell you one thing that. makes everybody nervous Chuck and that's. being out in a Minefield removing. landmines yeah so this is uh this has. many many um problems to root out first. of all finding the mines like you said. earlier they're not marked they don't. say here's a mine field and here's where. they're all located uh so finding these. things millions of them around the world. is really tough um and even when you. find the Minefield it it's tough so like.

the first thing is to find the Minefield. then it's it depends on how you do it. and we're going to talk about all the. ways that they're trying to do this um. some of which are very rudimentary which. uh the very first one you can do is. called probing the ground that means. walking around with a stick or a bayonet. and poking around lightly very lightly. oh so lightly yeah I get the feeling. that this is. I'm sure it's still done in some parts.

of the world but it's certainly not one. of the more advanced operations any. longer uh I get the impression that. that's what soldiers do when they're. like nope we can't go around we have to. keep going straight probably so that. that's what because they use sticks or. bayonets typically and they're trained. to kind of do it very very lightly um so. I think that's who does that all right. so you've also got trained dogs uh this. is horrifying when you think about a dog. getting blown up um but they are trained. to sniff out the these explosive Vapors. uh and the bomb ingredients uh I also.

saw rats have been trained by a company. called apopo oh yeah rats and bees oh I. didn't see bees that makes sense though. yeah bees are trained and uh that was. one of the things you sent over to me. the bees were how did I miss that I. don't know because you're all about bees. I love bees yeah the bees apparently. um it said the hard part is not training. them to find these things but tracking. them once you release the honeybees that.

makes sense so they're trained with. sugarcoated. TNT uh and then of course they can find. the the that's how they find the TNT but. it has no sugar on it right um one of. the I guess I think so that to me is a. big step up from poking with a stick yes. in between those two is using a good. oldfashioned um metal detector yeah it. it works but the problem is two full one. um metal detectors send a signal back.

for anything that has any metal to it. whatsoever so you get a hit and you are. very like gingerly searching the area to. see if there is a mine there nope it's a. it's a old Ran coin or it's like an old. um butterfly top to a a Miller beer can. um it's anything metal right so that's. one part of the problem and then the. second part of the problem is that you. um you actually may miss metal because. some types of the 350 different.

varieties of of Mines use very little. metal some of them are almost entirely. Plastics yeah so you so not only are you. picking up stuff that's not a landmine. and then wasting time seeing if it is a. land mine you're actually potentially. missing landmines as well yeah so. that's that's a problem because that was. my first thought is like I remember when. I was a kid my dad was all over that. metal detector on the beach oh yeah so. just get a lot of my dad's out there or. dudes like my dad and just tell them to.

go wild yeah they can coordinate over CB. while they're driving their Jeeps out to. the Minefield they totally would uh some. more promising newer technology um. specifically being developed at Ohio. State University and I think they're. actually using this now is called uh GPR. or ground penetrating radar mhm um this. uses magic leprechauns inside a machine. who exert no pressure to tell tell you. uh where these things are underground.

yeah it's actually it's pretty sweet. it's like a a metal detector ground. penetrating penetrating radar combo so. the ground penetrating radar can show. you if it's an anomaly but then the. radar also interacts with explosives and. the the electrical properties unique to. explosives so it can actually tell you. there's something weird down there and. uh the amazing keskin here thinks that. it's TNT yeah and this is crazy once. they find these land with the GPR device. it shoots chemical agents two of them.

into the ground that actually solidifies. the triggering mechanism at first along. with the soil and then a second chemical. agent that solidifies all of the mine in. the soil so they can just be scooped up. right well I don't understand that what. is it it just uh I don't know is it. cement I don't know if it was. proprietary or what but I couldn't find. what those chemical agents were but they. sound pretty awesome yeah and. not something you want to like get on. your hands no you know no wash hands.

flush eyes so that's actually that's. that's like you said that's in use. that's a huge Innovation because it it. shows you um you get like the hits that. you get from a metal detector but you. also don't get the misses and then it. also shows you if something is roughly. the size or shape of a land mine so you. don't waste time digging up old old. butterfly bottle caps right yeah yeah I. like it that's my favorite and it came.

from the Ohio State University this. article gets it wrong it calls it. scientists at Ohio State University the. shame yeah uh my favorite are these uh. these big heavy. machines so if you and I didn't ever. think I was a kid who liked uh I never. played with like Tonka trucks and stuff. much I was obviously you know we talked. about the evil conal and stuff like that. and model model cars yeah but uh for. some reason as an adult heavy machinery. really really turns my.

crank so go look up in on your Google. Images uh the Panther and the. arvar um tank or mine removal machines. and just Delight in these huge things. that are part uh Bobcat part hum. V uh and they're they're just so. rudimentary like literally one of them. the art Arc has these it has like a a.

spinning uh thing that sits out in front. of it that just spins chains and like. whips the ground with big metal chains. mhm I mean it's so brain dead and. rudimentary that said let's just get a. big heavy thing out there that smashes. the ground with chains and the point is. to just set off a landmine encounters. right so it's like and the artar just. takes it it it it huge an tank m. just blowing up right underneath the. these chains that are whipping up the.

ground the front part of the arvar and I. saw a video of a guy um in one who I. guess hit a mine and they show him in. the cab and he barely is jostled by the. explosion this huge explosion that they. show like 80 times because it's I think. on the Military Channel or something. like that and um it's like why don't you. just make everything out of whatever. you're making the arbark out of why. isn't the tank made of that it's it's. that same joke like you know why don't. you make the whole plane out of the. black box if the black box is the one.

thing that's always found but it's true. and I'm sure I I think um with mraps. like mine I can't remember that what. that stands for but you remember the. IEDs that were killing so many American. soldiers at the beginning of the Iraq. War um and then they figured out a way. to uh armor plate Humvees so that they. they were kind of impervious to IEDs I. think it's basically the same technology. on the arvar. yeah so that one like you said has a. dudee in it uh then there's the Panther.

and that is a 60. ton uh remote controlled thing so this. has somebody on the side with a joystick. operating this thing through a Minefield. this has big metal rollers to set off. these uh set off the mines and then. there are regular tanks that you can. sort of retrofit with a plow mhm that. sort of plows along and gently pushes. these mines out of the dirt uh in the. path then someone can come along and I.

don't I guess collect them in a in a. pink basket yeah no there there's a uh. there's another machine called a burn. processing assembly that just goes down. through these these mounds of dirt that. have mines in them and Shakes the mines. out of the dirt and sets them off to the. side so they're exposed so they can be. picked up and. detonated uh we mentioned bees and rats. and dogs. um very sadly elephants can sniff out.

mines uh they're they're pretty good at. it they don't use elephants uh to do. this because that just doesn't make much. sense but they have killed and injured a. bunch of elephants yeah um my favorite. new machine that they're using and this. makes total sense are drones mhm the. mine uh Kayon drone Ka a n this is a. drone basically that was developed by a. guy named uh massud Hassani and it's a.

drone that does the work of the human. it's a drone with metal detectors. attached to it so it just flies really. low over the ground and detects these. landmines with nobody walking on the. ground or no machine on the ground right. makes total sense it really does it's. great and then what does it do is it. mark it on like GPS or something like. that yeah it marks it on a GPS uh and. then can even come back and place a. Detonator drop a Detonator on it. basically fly away and it explodes. itself that's pretty awesome and they're.

only like five grand compared to um. robots and stuff like that can go from. 80 to half a million bucks yeah the. artar looks extremely expensive for sure. I imagine it's not cheap so um we talked. about the uh International Ban Treaty um. The Campaign to ban landmines that won. the Nobel Prize in. 1997 um their work actually had a huge. impact in I I think. 1999 there's a peak of casualties.

worldwide from um from landmines of. 9,228 by. 2013 they'd gotten that down to. 3450 and it really looked like the work. of this group and like the international. treaty that that it created and and all. these countries signed was having a real. genuine impact on landmine casualties. apparently the tide turned in 2016 and.

the numbers have started to go back up. so the low was 3450 in. 2013 in. 2016 it was up to um. 8,605 which has got to be really. demoralizing yeah and and I think you. said very early on a lot of this is. because of what's going on at Yemen and. Syria right now right right so sad I I. saw also remember I said Egypt has a lot. of Old Mines from World War II.

apparently Isis is taken to digging. those up and and replanting them and we. should say you know landmines and IEDs. are virtually one and the same it's just. landmines are mass. produced um whereas IEDs are made by. Insurgent bomb makers they're usually. not commercially produced right there's. no contract that Isis has out with. somebody did you ever see Hurt Locker. The Hurt Locker no I haven't seen that. one man that's a good movie talk about. tents I can imagine I mean that's what.

they do right they go and and remove. mines right or bombs IEDs bombs anything. like any unexploded thing uh Jeremy. runers in it and these it's just amazing. like they just wear these like big heavy. suits. basically um like anti-blast suits and. then work very carefully and slowly. yeah uh oh one other thing Chuck yes uh. Princess Diana yeah we have to mention. her I mean some of the probably her most.

important work she did as Princess was. uh in the in the final years of her life. working to try and raise awareness to. eradicate landmines around the world MH. just amazing stuff and she wasn't she. took a lot of heat sometimes from within. her own country yeah uh sometimes they. didn't they thought she was uh just not. being super helpful some people people. would um bag on her for just doing like.

photo ops and stuff like that but by all. accounts she was I mean she did what she. could she she had a lot of things that. happened off the cameras she would go. and visit these hospitals where these. children were affected and it was a. humanitarian effort to really kind of. shine a light and raise awareness more. than like hey I can create policy right. as as the princess she knew she couldn't. do that right but she did a lot of great. work to raise awareness and when she uh. when she died it was a very sad day and. they obviously for many reasons but um.

Nobel prize winning uh winner jod. Williams said the death of Princess. Diana meant that the uh anti- landmine. activists lost their most visible. advocate so that was very sad she did. great work yeah I mean it takes a. certain kind of person to say well the. Global Spotlight is on me right now I'm. going to walk over here to this um under. under under served pop. of people who are being blown up by. Leftover landmines that people don't.

really know about and now the spotlight. on them yeah it says quite a bit about. somebody to do that pretty amazing you. so uh you got anything else I got. nothing else uh if you want to know more. about landmines you can type those words. in the search bar at howstuffworks.com. and since I said landmine it's time for. listener. mail uh I'm going to call this brother. and sister listening pair. I was never a good headline writer on.

newspaper staff by the way it's. tough uh Hey guys finally feel like I. have something to write about my brother. introduced me to your show over. Christmas just this year and I've been. slowly working my way through uh from DB. Cooper to ask murderers to Winchester. Mystery House to jellyfish I'd love them. all so first of all thanks to my brother. Michael who lives in Savannah for the. introduction he actually plays a role in. why I'm writing I just finished. listening to the vampire panics episode. and at the beginning you talked about. coming upon dead bodies well growing up.

a dead body was discovered in the Ravine. behind our neighbor's house they had to. pull it up the hill so my brother and I. got out our spy gear and took pictures. of the policemen and paramedics pulling. up the dead body and carrying it away. it's a lot of excitement and at the time. we didn't really think about it but when. the photos came back developed it really. finally hit home how creepy it was that. we had seen a dead body yeah uh anyway. thanks for providing uh interesting and. entertaining episodes I teach. kindergarten. uh it's funny she talked about being. drawn to the darker episodes as a.

kindergarten teacher uh she says. sometimes you just need a break from. boogers and PAW Patrol uh and he. grown-ups talk about cool and. interesting stuff that is from Melissa. she's going to be at our DC show and. Michael and Savannah is upset because he. can't go yeah well he should fly up to. DC there are such things as airplanes. it's it's greater chances of that. happening than us going to Savannah for. a show and there are or there is always. room for boogers Melissa don't be. mistaken there is room for boogers by. Josh. Clark uh thanks for writing in hey to.

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