Selects: Where Did Trick-Or-Treating Come From? | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW

hey everybody for this week's select. I've chosen our 2019 episode on. trick-or-treating it's a really indepth. look at trick-or-treating and it's got a. lot of surprising stuff inside like it. turns out that if you don't set. abandoned buildings on fire on Halloween. then you've been trick-or-treating all. wrong all this time but don't worry. we're releasing this just in time for. you to learn the ropes this Halloween. happy and extremely safe Halloween. everybody.

welcome to stuff you should know a. production of iHeart. [Music]. Radio hey and welcome to the podcast I'm. Josh Clark and there's Charles W Chuck. Bryan over there and there's Jerry and. this is stuff you should know the right. before Halloween edition about trick or. treating you get like a little kid every. Halloween I'm pretty excited about it.

yeah do you get. trick-or-treaters no not really no condo. life # Etc yeah and I've told my story. before but uh I'll just Briefly. summarize again that my house is after a. big curve in the road and people seem to. just stop at that curve in the road well. they don't want to come up on old man. Bryant's house no you know the old dead. oak tree with the big hole in it that. yeah buo Radley hides figures in is kind. of offputting it's right on your.

property and I think uh in my. neighborhood too they close they. literally close off the cops close off. two blocks this just this big square of. streets and that's the official. sanctioned no stress area where the. parents all just walk around and get. drunk and all the kids just run around. and don't have to worry about cars right. so um everyone in my neighborhood is. congregated there and you're outside of. theide comfort zone yeah which I kind of. miss like I I I like trick-or-treaters.

coming to my house I guess I could maybe. try and well I could move a few houses. in which I'm not going to do you could. casually move the the roadblocks a. little further back to include your. house well they're actual police cars. with police officers I can't move them. give them give them some T but I could. put signs at like you know this way for. the best yet and then you like only two. more houses right or like leave a trail. of candy cuz I remember when I first. moved to Atlanta we rented a house.

that got a lot of trick-or-treaters and. I loved it man I scared the heck out of. those kids oh really yeah it was a lot. of fun like I really got that was my. first big. adult giving out candy night like the. first time I've ever been able to do. that because we didn't have kids yet so. we weren't out trick-or-treating sure. and uh yeah I made it I really I pumped. music out like the psycho theme and. scary John Carpenter stuff I really. enjoyed it did you like do anything to. overtly scare them oh yes I wore a I was.

dressed up as a a very scary person. uhhuh and I would jump out and scare. them over and over and over did you. really jump out mhm good for you Chuck. or I would stand in the like Emily would. be giving out candy and I would just be. in the darkened house like eight feet. behind her just standing there. motionless that's always a. nice tack nice but point is I I sort of. feel like we're missing out like we. certainly enjoy taking our daughter out. but I really wish we had kids that came.

by yeah I wish you did too it's too bad. yeah a stupid house right there near the. main road so close yet so far away so. far away and that's your Forever house. too huh yeah no trick-or-treaters. everever again for you I'm locked in. there but what we could do is you know. we could go to a friend's house and that. doesn't count then you have to like jump. on their coattails you can't sit on. their couch you have to take your shoes. off in their house you can't be. comfortable we've long talked me and my. friend Eddie and Allison you know them. about they have a good backyard about.

doing like a Haunted Trail one year. uhhuh that like if you come. trick-or-treating you got to go through. the trail first it sounds like a lot of. work it is and it would be fun no I mean. for the kids who have to go through the. trail got to earn right you got to earn. that free candy earn that rees's pieces. so we just hit upon like 15 different. themes in this episode if you'll if. you'll agree you agree yes um so we're. talking about trick-or-treating here and.

if you look at the thing on its face. just the words trick or treat there. seems to be some sort of option here you. can do one or the other there used to be. give me a treat or you get a trick. basically was the equation yeah they. should just change the name now to just. treat KN Treat night right exactly um we. aren't 100% sure on where. trick-or-treating came from but what we. do know is that it was originated in. America in the 20th century and that. there was this real like brief golden. age where it lived up to its name trick.

or treat there was a there was an offer. to not get pranked or tricked and if you. didn't take the people up on the offer. the kids up on the offer by giving them. candy you got pranked that was the. equation it was in the name everybody. knew the score and then it slowly kind. of moved over to what we understand. today where the police set up roadblocks. and everything is safe these kids these. days and it's just kind of just like you. said just the treat side of the equation. yeah I was of course kidding but we'll.

get to it there are people that really. do decry this new generation of children. who just expect handouts and that it. leads to the idea of the welfare state. right and all this other garbage that I. have no patience for sure because it's. just a fun thing for. kids yeah or do you think they should be. earning the stuff no no no I don't feel. that way I I do feel well I think it'll. come through loud and clear as we do the. episode all right well we should jump. back a little bit to the origins of how. Halloween we've gone over this before in.

episodes past but we all know it. originally started as a pagan Harvest or. not just one but Pagan Harvest festivals. in general among the Kelts over in the. UK yes and uh that evolved into. Halloween but it had nothing to do with. trick-or-treating at the time no it. wasn't wrong again trick-or-treating is. a 100% American invention that's right. um and so with Halloween in particular. uh you've got all these different. components for the modern hallowe for.

trick-or-treating yes you have going. from house to house you have getting to. said house and asking for a treat. basically sanctioned begging got your. costume costume dressing up um got being. outside kind of parading around all of. these things find their origin in the. Celtic and I think specifically Gaelic. um Harvest festivals that introduced the. the dark half of the year that's right. and in particular there was sin which. for forever I've always said Sam Hayne.

cuz that's how it's spelled now we you. said s right when we did our Halloween. episode didn't you uh probably yeah by. the way speaking of sin or Sam. Hayne I you realize that I went to New. York and saw the Misfits on Saturday oh. yeah how was that I'm sure it was great. colossally amazing this is the original. Misfits right the original Misfits Glenn. Danzig Jerry onlyy Doyle Wolf Gang Von. Frankenstein who actually specifically. invited us to this St Chanel listener. right yes um to this uh this show and it.

Wasing knock your socks off didn't the. Damned play as well the Damned open and. then ran it and then the Misfits just. tore the roof off the sucker I saw when. I saw you were going I looked up some. YouTube clips of this tour and it looked. pretty amazing it was amazing and I. think Glen danig said it was their last. one ever oh really and so we got to see. it wow yeah you me and I went had a. great time amazing so big big thanks to. Doyle Wolf Gang Von Frankenstein for the. invite the the stage setup looked great. it was it was just a really cool show. and they played almost everything yeah.

yeah it was just really good show that's. fantastic so anyway back to sawi yeah so. uh I mean that's a perfect me time to. mention that show though it all worked. out it did um Hallow's Eve was the uh. the night considered when the veil. between the living and the dead was the. shortest mhm and so that's when this uh. that's when Halloween. formed right right so people would dress. up in like modern day Ireland Scotland I.

believe Wales of man um they would dress. up like demons or fairies or. Supernatural characters who were um. because this veil was so thin between. the living and the dead or the. supernatural um they could cross over. these creatures could cross over and. communicate so if you dressed up like. them maybe they would be confused and. think you're one of them and leave you. alone that's right so this now we've got. the costume thing going right that's. right and uh part of that was the. community getting together uh getting.

drunk on you know probably high octane. me me and stuff like that and they would. parade through the town uh they saw. Halloween parades all over the place. right here in Atlanta we have one of the. best uh Little Five Points the Halloween. parade fantastic like when you think. about the Halloween parade at your town. like that is centuries Millennia old. yeah that tradition is yeah so we have. those two things going on MH and then. the one missing piece is. is knock knock hey give me candy right.

but this we have the origins of which. came and it's still not Halloween it. took American kids to put all this stuff. together but uh the European tradition. of soing which was when kids on hallow Z. would go from house to house house and. pray for the souls of The Departed and. in exchange you would get a soul cake. yeah which I looked up they look pretty. good what is it just a little baked good. it looks like a muffin top like top of. the muffin to you ah it looks really.

good Soul cakes uh or mumming which is. and this sounds fantastic I wish kids. still had to do this stuff yeah uh you. would have to perform a short uh musical. number or some kind of performance to. get uh a treat of some kind or maybe a. little spare change right so in that. sense you have going to house to house. and getting something from the owners of. the house like a treat or something like. that that's right but there was a reason. for that praying for the soul of their. departed loved one doing a little dance.

number something like that the prank. part the prank part of the equation that. also existed before trick-or-treating. too and in fact that was kind of the. origin or the the biggest tradition of. Halloween itself was pranking yeah and. that came from Ireland is that right. yeah supposedly in the 1880s they would. prank they they would just run around. doing pranks and then they would blame. those fairies or demons right on sin um. for the Mischief that it wasn't not it.

was the fairies on Sam right I mean it. sounds that's how it's spelled yeah it's. really that's a confounding. pronunciation it is but there you have. it that's right uh and then pranks back. then and of course were pretty low-key. uh ding-dong ditch stuff like that um. moving the neighbor Furniture to the. roof I saw that yeah like flower pot on. the chimney sure but it would also get. way way worse than that yeah I looked up. uh Mischief Night we never did that in.

Georgia no or devil's night it was also. called yeah which is the Night Before. Halloween when all these pranks would. happen um region to region is called. different apparently in uh New Jersey. it's Mischief Night or cabbage night or. something well in Camden New Jersey is. Mischief Night other parts of New Jersey. call call it cabbage night um Cincinnati. calls it damage night that's pretty over. that's a punk band name right there. damage KN yeah totally that you in. insurance deductible night uh other part.

I don't know why Ohio is so highly. represented here Beggar's Night is. something else they called it in Ohio. chck because there's nothing else to do. in Ohio but sit around and wait for that. night for Hallow's Eve uh other names. doorbell Knight trick Knight corn Knight. Tic Tac Knight Goosey KN and then in. Canada uh gate night or Matt night if. you're in Quebec mat they would take. they would steal the gate off your fence. or the mat from your doorstep and really. remove it yeah oh okay so they're pretty.

on the nose especially damag night but. uh Devil's KN in Detroit uh it became. legendary over about a 20-year period in. the 70s and through the mid 9s I saw. before they finally got a little bit of. a um could put a dent in it by forming. Angels night yeah they kind of re. rebranded it well not rebranded the. Angels were volunteers who would walk. around to keep kids from setting.

everything on fire oh okay because. that's what they did on devil's night it. was a night of arson it was a night of. arson I thought that it ran it's course. because they burned all the buildings. down in Detroit there was nothing else. left it it was a real problem though I. looked into it and like hundreds of kid. like in 1994 I think there were like 315. kids arrested MH uh on deil's night. fires and other stuff in 1984 the peak. of Devil's Night in Detroit there were. 800 10 cases of arson in one night in.

Detroit yeah they would just set the. city on fire and I'm sure some of these. were bags of poop on a doorstep right. which I think we can all agree is. harmless fun it is unless you're the. Steppy I never did any of this stuff I. never roll a house oh you didn't no I. was I'm so mad I was so busy being good. it's never too late buddy I know I. should roll a house or Fork a yard I. don't know what that is the plastic. forks just basically get like 2,000. plastic forks and stick them in the yard. oh really yeah I've never heard of that.

one you never did that I about to really. chew up a lawn mower I never egged a. house cuz I always heard that that. really damages paint yeah but we did. have the junior senior egg fight every. year that was kind of fun well there you. go you got something you get together in. a field and uh throw eggs at each other. aside from wasting a a precious resource. with well eggs yes but also um toilet. paper you really should roll somebody's. house at least once in your life it's. great is it yeah all right. yeah I'm going to roll your condo I.

remember when I was a kid actually uh my. friend and I rolled the neighbor's house. but we had to be in early so we were. doing it basically in broad daylight it. was dusk at best yeah and a cop drove by. which never happened Yeah in our. neighborhood ever never the cops just. weren't needed right it was just I think. we talked about in the free range. episode free range parents episode you. could just do whatever and um we had to. knock out of the house of the neighbor. whose house we just rolled to let us in.

to hide from the cop and she went out. and told the cop like it's it's fine. don't worry about it but we rolled her. house and head to get Safe Harbor from. her yeah and you can't really clean up a. rolled house can you you can for the. rain if they come tell your parents what. you did how do you do know the rain. makes it way worse yeah but I mean you. can't climb up there can you right some. of it's inevitably stuck up there but. you can pull it down as as gingerly as. you can okay to get as much as you can. but no some's going to be left over all. right all right I'm going to roll a. house okay just know whose house you're.

rolling like you don't want to get shot. at or anything like that I don't see. that anymore either I feel like it I. mean I don't live in the suburbs maybe. it's a little more prone to happen there. yeah but it seems like a lost. art it very well maybe I don't know. anybody who rolls I just assumed it was. because we'd outgrown it you know Emily. called it tping a house yeah that's Ohio. yeah yeah t all right let's take a break. we we barely talked about this I think. we're one page in good that's great all. [Music].

[Music]. [Music]. right stuff you should. [Music]. know. should know stuff you should know should.

know all right so to recap Chuck we have. the costumes in play now we have being. out on Halloween night sometimes. parading drunkenly Community um we have. going from house to house and we have. the prank Factor that's right all of. these things are out there floating. around have been out there for centuries. Millennia by the time America is born. and makes it to the 20th century and at. some point some kids said we think. hey you know what we could pull all this.

together and turn it into something. really amazing and peculiar and unique. called trick-or-treating that's right. you found a great piece uh from a. sociologist named Samira kawash great. name uh called gangsters pranksters and. trick-or-treating 1930 to 1960 yeah and. is this that pure period yeah that you. were talking about where she thinks that. American kids just created this thing. yeah there's two historical views cuz we.

don't know where it came from one. historical View and I think this is what. kawash believes too is that it was. actually kids who figured this out which. is great who said we can extort adults. to not prank them if they give us treats. right and that it was a genuinely a kid. invention of kids they made it up right. and um there's some evidence for that. kind of thing a lot of like the early. newspaper accounts of It kind of call. the kids gangsters and say they're.

extorting people it's also possible that. it was like written super tongue and. cheek right and that that dry it was. kind of dry and lost to the ages yeah. the other historical view is that the. kids were out pranking and doing the. pranks and it was the adults that. introduced treats into the equation to. buy them off oh okay to yeah to keep. them from pranking right uh Los Angeles. possibly as the point of origin mhm um. and this one wealthy kids I I guess that.

makes sense that this would be the idea. of like kids of privilege sure you know. like come around gimme stuff uh but. apparently in Los Angeles kids in the. wealthy parts of town would dress up and. their parents would take them around. from house to house and this is um this. is that pre-1 1930 period though yeah. they think sometime in the 20s and if. you think about it that really resembles. what we do today yeah but in between. that origin and where we've arrived.

today there was this pure period 1930 to. 1960 some people might even take it a. little further beyond that where the. kids seem to have run the show and um. there there really was both sides of the. equation a trick or a treat right uh but. that term actually was in 1927 in an. article right it's that the first time. they found the the two words in print. together right or I guess three words uh. that was in an article about a town uh.

called Blackie in Alberta Canada yeah. and it seems like all of it was sort of. on the west coast early on yeah and. again they think possibly it did. originate in Los Angeles or it may have. originated in multiple towns on the west. coast roughly at the same time but we're. thinking 20s because in 1919 there was a. book uh by Ruth Edna called Ruth and. Kelly Ruth and Kelly called The Book of. Halloween uh and it didn't mention any. kind of trick-or treating in there no.

and it's like an exhaustive. comprehensive Homemakers overview it. would have been in there right for sure. and you got to think like poor Ruth and. N Kelly's like gosh if I just waited. like two years to put this book out. they're going to come up with something. brand new with Halloween two years after. I come up with this book I wrote the. book on it not quite now it's out of. date uh but they did find mentions of it. in newspapers uh Out West Portland uh. Washington Reno Nevada Nevada Helena. Montana yeah and you can kind of track.

its progress from the dates and the. mentions of newspaper articles right. yeah um so there's those two sides one. say that it was kids who came up with it. on their own um perhaps they were. introduced with the idea of going from. house to house to get treats in Los. Angeles but then they said well we're. also doing these pranking maybe we can. say hey we won't prank you if you give. us a treat right there's that view the. other view again is that um it was adult. who said whoa kids you know we don't. want you setting fires any longer.

derailing street cars cuz every once in. a while somebody would die yeah people. would get shot at by Angry neighbors um. sometimes somebody would be in one of. those buildings that they set on fire. and they die people would die in a. building that kids set on fire as a. Halloween prank so for the most part. though it was just kind of um tolerated. as one night a year when the kids. basically had power and were allowed to. run the show um so the this idea this. other historical view that adults.

finally said hey you know we're not. going to just say you can't do pranking. that'd probably be a bad thing but why. don't we just start having parties on. Halloween night while you're out. pranking and there'll be cider and. donuts and you can come inside and Bob. for apples and maybe do that instead of. running around pranking the neighborhood. and once you did do that you went from. and this is um Samir kawash putting it. like you under the rules of society you. went from this powerful kid who could. Levy a prank on you if he or she wanted.

to to a house guest of the adult who now. had you in and had given you donuts and. cider you really going to set their. house on fire as a prank after that not. no you're not going to so in this sense. trick-or-treating was something the. adults introduced to keep kids from. carrying out these pranks yeah and it. was by the time World War II came around. it was a big thing uh in the 1940s but. of course uh with the sugar rationing. and just the fact that there was World. War II going on it put a dent in it for.

a little while but it came back um. bigger than it ever had been after the. war and I mean seriously it came very. close to dying out from World War II it. was pretty new it hadn't gained that. much traction there were a lot of cranks. and Grumps who were not happy about this. kind of thing I'm curious what else had. died in the war and never came back. there's got to be lots of little things. that's a great question we should look. it up yeah uh but there were a couple of. big pop culture um sort of tint poles.

that helped Halloween along uh Charles. Schultz's peanuts of course yeah it. wasn't the Great Pumpkin Charlie Brown. yet that was the 60s I think yeah but in. 1951 he uh had a 4-day um comic strip. run around Halloween where the Peanuts. Gang got all ready and got their. costumes going and that really brought. it to the Forefront uh and then Donald. Duck uh it was a cartoon Donald Duck. trick or- treat a year after that that. had Donald working with his nephews or.

trying to prank his nephews while they. were trick-or-treating right and working. with the witch and then the candy. companies get involved there was also a. a very famous costume company called Ben. Cooper costumes yeah the ones who did. like the cheap yes uh plastic mask and. like a vinyl smok that's right but they. they had this really great talent of. identifying what was going to be like a. pop culture phenomenon before it ever. blew up so they get the right for cheap. but they were also making these things. like 10 months before so they really had.

to have foresight and they were really. good at it but the fact that you could. get cheap amazing costumes that the. little kids all wanted of their favorite. characters yeah that definitely helped. things along too yeah it was it's hard. to overstate like how big of a deal it. was to a kid to be the the certain. whatever they wanted to be I think it's. still that way I'm sure it is but now. it's a lot easier I think to buy. costumes right I think when you and I. were kids was a lot of fashioning. costumes uh uh when you didn't have the.

ability to be like the alien from Alien. or you know it was a lot harder to put. together these elaborate costumes but. once you got your heart set on it you. like you had to sure you know so I'm. going to tell you my best costume then. you tell me yours okay uh okay um my mom. made one from scratch yeah clown is a. clown costume but the big kicker was. that it was an upside down clown walking. on his hands M so my feet were the. Clown's hands yeah his head is like.

dangling between my legs I've got his. legs sticking up off of my shoulders and. I don't remember my head must have been. covered up like I was in his butt or. something like that right but I was a. upside down walking clown greatest. costume ever really yeah got any. pictures somewhere yeah okay yeah I did. a lot of funny ones like my brother and. I were Han Solo and Luke Skywalker when. I was really little nice um but then I. got into like I was always wanting to do. like funny characters I like like I like. Ed Grimley one year the Saturday Night.

Live character I did Ed Grimley one year. and I was I don't know I felt like I was. always trying to make people laugh I. never did scary stuff right until little. kids started coming around and. trick-or-treating at your house yes then. you started to SC or like movie. characters MH like even into my adult. years you know I would try and find some. cool movie character like hi from. Raising Arizona I did one year it's. almost said grimly same hair uh no not. same at all. actually uh and then one year I did a a. great I actually won a contest in New.

Jersey one year when I was a uh hardi. Krishna and I like uh shaved my head I. did the whole thing wow I had literature. I passed out wow made the whole the. whole deal you just ended up joining a. local chapter for a little while it was. fine really got into the role but I. haven't it's been a few years since I've. dressed up uh yeah same same here. because I just oh that's not true I. haven't been to a Halloween party in. probably five years. right what were you last year I was um.

Patrick baitman from American Psycho oh. so you were you but with a tie right. exactly and like a giant inflatable. brick cell phone uhhuh and Yumi was a. specific Michael Jackson a moment of. Michael Jackson's History where he's. holding blanket over the balcony oh sure. and Momo was. Blanket it's on you could see it on. Instagram that's great have to check. that out all right so the candy company. start started getting involved it's. where I left off yeah uh and the costume.

company they knew it was gold for them. um Mars uh Incorporated in the early. 1950s were doing ad campaigns on TV and. in newspapers and on the radio and stuff. about trick-or treat um it became a. thing with UNICEF uh they had a trick-or. treat for Unicef campaign back then I. think they still might you know you know. what I'm talking about the little boxes. that holds change and they would just. give them to little kids and while they. were out trick-or-treating they' also. asked for change for Unicef right to. help needy kids overseas and that.

actually went a really long way to. legitimizing trick or-treating yeah. they're doing a lot these days too for. kids special needs kids M like it's it's. taken this long to finally get the word. out uh like the blue pumpkins have you. heard of those no if you trick- or treat. with a blue pumpkin that means that you. have some sort of special need where you. may not be able to walk to a front door. oh and say Trick or Treat I'm dressed as. right you know Michigan J bullfrog. what that'd be a great costume it would.

be but did you pull that off of I just. made yeah wow nice he he's been on my. mind lately I guess so but uh so people. know like oh you've got a blue pumpkin. so I shouldn't say like you know come on. kid why don't you tell me what your. costume is sh them and uh it's good. though like the it's taken it's ironic. that it's taken this long yeah to get. parents on board to the fact that some. kids need you know different kinds of. treatment I don't know if ironic is the. best word as much as disappointing is.

yeah you know you're probably right. should we take another break oh my God. we're going to have to take three more. no we're not okay yes we will. [Music]. [Music]. then. [Music].

stuff you should know. [Music]. Jerry Stu you should know you should. know all right so I think basically what. we were saying when we left off and. sorry about the The Nostalgia here. everybody but I mean come on you get us. in a room yeah around Halloween it's. going to happen um so by the early 50s. trick-or-treating was huge and. established and had so if the 1930 and.

1960 was the Heyday the Golden Age of. trick-or-treating um 1950 to 1959 was. the salad days of the the Heyday right. and when did people start complaining. about it the 70s no and 80s no 90s as. far back as the 20s oh really yeah. because those newspaper articles that. you can track the progress of Halloween. uh more often than not they were like.

old cranks complaining about how they. didn't want to have to give tricks or. treats or whatever to little kids right. don't you blackmail me they don't yeah. exactly you know what are we teaching. our kids and there's actually um if you. kind of scratch beneath the surface of. trick-or-treating at first it appears to. be kind of a a weird power struggle. between kids and adults and it. definitely is that yeah but there's also. another Power struggle going on between. a adults of two different Minds ones who. are like you are overparenting by being.

upset about this or like this is just. one night a year it's good for kids and. other people are saying like this is. terrible for kids allowing them to go. from house to house to beg is just a bad. idea it's unsafe is another way to put. it too so there's like a a struggle. weirdly over trick-or-treating and it. has to do with underp parenting and. overparenting and that conversation. about the whole thing I have seen. parents ruin kids experiences whether. it's like a uh Easter egg hunt or.

trick-or-treating I've seen this in. action because they're too. involved yeah yeah I mean that's what it. comes down to is just how involved are. you in your kids trick-or-treating for a. very brief period there was very little. involvement in kids trick-or-treating. yeah um and a lot of people say that's. actually really good for kids in this. other way that we've kind of started to. evolve toward is is not yeah I don't. remember remember my parents taking me. around trick-or-treating I'm sure that.

happened maybe when I was really little. and we certainly would have had to go. somewhere else because uh you know I. lived on the the the dirt road yeah the. dirt road with no no neighbors um or. very few of them but uh I just all my. memories stem from being like probably. 10 to 15 and being completely on my own. with my. friends 10 to 15 10 years old but to 15. that's pretty late what to. trick-or-treat oh yeah oh now we. trick-or-treated up until probably the.

like the nth or 10th grade well we'll. get to it but in some places you get to. get arrested for. that when did you stop you'd still. trick-or treat if they would let. you uh I think I stopped around 13 no. maybe 15 was too late maybe 13 or 14. you're fine no 15's great go with. God no but you're you're probably right. now that I look back maybe I went to. Halloween parties but maybe kind of an. unofficial SL official again in some.

places um cut off after 12 done yeah. because 13 you're a teenager now and. that's that's not kids stuff as we'll. see allegedly trick-or-treating is a. transition from. [Laughter]. kidheroes definitely remember going by. myself at a certain point but now with.

my neighborhood it's just the I see. mostly parents not involved at all. they're they're there kind of like if. your child is two or three helping them. walk to the door and stuff sure but. otherwise we're just drinking and the. kids are doing their thing so let's talk. about this then let's skip toward the. end and we'll we'll jump back okay all. right there is um this debate. over you know whether it's better to. just kind kind of cross your fingers and. and hope for the best and let your kids.

go out and trick-or treat on their own. whether that's good or whether we need. to um the world's just too unsafe for. that and we need to much more manage. kids trick-or-treating than just letting. them go out on their own well it depends. on where you are that's the big divide. yeah and one of my personal Heroes the. world's worst mom Lenor skazi uh who. came up with the Freer range kids blog. right and the whole movement frankly she. makes this really great point that when.

we let kids trick-or treat we let them. confront danger like on their own and. it's real it's a just a thin the. narrowest margin of danger I mean people. always talk about like the um you know. all like the worst things that could. happen on on Halloween when a kid's out. trick-or-treating getting hit by a car. getting kidnapped by a stranger getting. like um an apple with a razor blade in. it yes just just stuff that happens and. it can happen it's true but it happens.

so infrequently that the the chances are. it's not going to happen and you're. actually better off just letting the kid. roll the dice because as Lenor skazi. puts it when when you go. trick-or-treating you're transitioning. from being a kid to a grownup and you're. doing this quite literally um you go. with your parents first and they kind of. teach you the rules of the road like. just take one piece of candy or that. house over there has their lights off so. leave them alone they don't want to have. anything to do with this and then after.

that you let them go on their own right. and they they kind of take the ball and. roll with it and she says that um that. when they're out trick-or-treating kids. dress like grown-ups yeah they take to. the streets at night they encounter the. scariest possible locals witches and. goblins and then yes they're doing it at. the scariest possible time night and the. whole thing is dress rehearsal for. adulthood and that like that's the. benefit of trick-or-treating. I don't quite get that the that is the. same as adulthood like you and I all the.

time walking around at night fighting. goblins and wit sure right exactly where. would we have been without. trick-or-treating to prepare us for. fighting goblins all right but just. confronting fears on their own without. their parents managing their world for. them right so that they can handle. themselves have the confidence to know. they can handle themselves and um and. and I guess feel good about having. confronted their fears and gotten candy. in return let's not forget about that. now on the other hand it's just just.

take the candy it's fine right mommy and. daddy made it perfect for you all you. have to do is go get the candy you're in. a perfect bubble and everything's fine. yeah so that's I kind of tend to fall on. Lenor skazzy side on that well should we. talk a little bit about the. um you know whether or not there have. been all these real horror stories over. the years and whether or not any of. those are true yeah as far as the razor. blade and the apple and stuff like that. hypodermic needles and Candy um this. stuff doesn't happen no and the thing to.

point out and I know we've talked about. it before is that it it was a an urban. legend that came. true right uh there was one case and. this is actually kind of funny if you. ask me in 1959 there was a dentist in. California named William shine who. uh took Alo laxative pills and disguise. them as candy and give out 450 of them. what a jerk to kids and they were all. pooping I guess so I think a fume did.

poop nobody got injured though right no. you're not going to get injured from a. laxative you could poop over poop over. poop yeah uh but this uh is when I think. this real story got out and then all of. a sudden it gets morphed into needles. and razor blades or poison or uh candy. laced with heroin and stuff like that. well that did happen well yeah but. that's the thing like the examples that. are listed are reverse engineered almost.

right right so there was a little boy in. Texas who died from eating a. cyanide um laced pixie stick right in. Texas in I can't remember what year it. was 74 and um it turned out that it was. his dad that his dad was the scum of the. earth who had taken taken out insurance. policies on his own children good Lord. and then gave them spiked Halloween. candy to make it look like some mad. poisoner had killed his kid so he could. collect insurance one of his kids did. die but it was it wasn't just some.

random Halloween poisoner that guy. didn't really exist at the time yeah. 1970 in Detroit was the heroin incident. um this kid uh overdose these kids ate. their uncle's stash is what really. happened right and then that Uncle was. like oh crap right let me sprinkle the. heroin on the candy and cook up the. story yeah and maybe cook up some heroin. right since I'm cooking yeah and to try. and get out of this so again it really.

happened but not in the way that you. think no um the thing that got everybody. so that William shine guy who I just. think is a skell for that cuz he he. scared the pants off of America's. parents yeah he basically said hey hey. you know you're letting your kids run. free something really bad could happen. to him and I just showed you how yeah. and from the that that next year on the. parents were anxiously involved in. Halloween like they never had been. before because of William shine but but. um the uh the the thing that really.

killed Halloween or at least cemented I. think the anxieties in the heads of. parents in America is that Tylenol. poisoner oh sure canceled Halloween 1982. did it really almost drove Ben Cooper uh. costumes out of business candy sales. went down 50% I trick-or-treated in 1982. well your parents didn't love. you I think I did too I don't remember. not I I would remember not. trick-or-treating one year yeah cuz I. would have been 11 that's Prime Time. right apparently those are the.

retirement years but all of this stuff. added a veneer of fear and anxiety on. trick-or-treating for parents not for. kids necessarily but for parents and it. drew them into what was possibly just a. kidr run activity because of fear. probably irrational fear yeah and now. you have to this day the FDA sending out. guidelines around Halloween saying don't. let your kids e any candy until they. bring it home right which is just.

torture yeah and you have to inspect it. and if you see any pin holes or tears or. anything that looks weird just throw it. away some hospitals say bring your kids. candy and we'll x-ray it to see if. there's any razor blades or needles in. it or something like that this is the. kind of Terror that ironically is. overlaid on Halloween it's like fun. Terror has actual real terror on top of. it which makes it less fun we don't. inspect candy oh you don't you roll the. dice huh yeah that's great I don't know.

anyone who does really oh man I was. raised like that you inspected candy oh. yeah my parents were serious about it we. never did I don't. know I just I don't know that's great. maybe it's that thing of like if you're. the because it doesn't happen right I'm. no I'm heartened to hear that yeah. because I when we did our freeer range. Kids episode I remember thinking like. what this is what's going on now like. like kids kids are treated like this. they're not AR being poisoned by. Halloween candy right it's just not.

happening right you know yeah plus in. our neighborhood with the sanctioned. closure all the candy is people aren't. buying their own candy it's like the. neighborhood buys all the candy and they. congregated in these couple of blocks oh. that's cool yeah okay I mean there could. be a Madman living among us it happens. but that's like being scared to walk out. your front door for fear of being. murdered right right Chuck you know you. just can't live that way you can't live. that way you know Yumi told me a story.

about um a vill like villages in Japan. have like a festival or two every year. like the whole Community comes out it's. like a big deal and there was one. Village little tiny town where um this. one woman just I guess went mad and. poisoned the curry that she brought to. the Village thing and like killed a. bunch of towns people it happens it does. happen but you're right you can't not. eat the curry just because of the small. small chance that some mad person has.

poisoned it yeah the way I look at it is. if that what happens then that's you. know your num's up your numers up and. your story in the newspaper right to. scare other people sure you get to be. immortalized on stuff you should know is. trick-or treat going away. Josh I don't know Chuck I say no okay. that's good I'm glad to hear that cuz. again I'm living hash condo life I'm out. of the. yeah I I mean there's this the last bit. of this article you sent talked about it.

um going away potentially but I just I. don't think that's ever ever going to. happen so what are your Arguments for it. going away that it might my arguments or. your you know these are my observations. your. observations um one of the big ones is. that fear among parents that helicopter. parenting has not been good for. trick-or-treating ah okay okay but but. think about it that's a real struggle. going on right now overparenting versus. under parenting which one's going to win. out right okay um another one is there's.

a perception that that trick-or-treating. is dying out which is kind of funny is. there yes because people are moving back. into towns and gentrifying those towns. like uh we talked about in the historic. district episode um and as they're doing. that trick-or-treating was never huge in. the city and so people who are raised in. the suburbs and were used to it are. moving into the City and there's no. trick-or-treating going on anymore so I. guess trick-or-treating is dying because. that's what I'm seeing I I differ i' beg.

to differ with that too okay but I mean. you don't live in the city city you live. in a neighborhood yeah but that's all. Atlanta is is a bunch of neighborhoods. okay you mean I don't live downtown. maybe these people live in De Mo I don't. know no one lives in downtown Atlanta no. it's true although it has gotten cooler. than it was like a decade ago sure uh. but I I begged to differ that. trick-or-treating doesn't go on in the. cities I think I think there are. apartment buildings in New York where. people people trick-or treat like just. cuz it's not the picket fence Suburban.

neighborhood sure uh I think. trick-or-treating goes on everywhere but. this author my house Julie Beck who. wrote in the Atlantic she put it really. well that that basically the suburbs in. trick-or-treating just go hand in hand. sure like the suburbs are set up for. trick-or-treat yeah you got houses that. are close together super safe um yep. where people who live there are just. well enough off to to buy enough candy. for the whole neighborhood um they all. have kids they know each other enough. that you're not embarrassed for your kid. to go up and trick or treat there and.

you know that this candy is not going to. be poisoned in the city you're much um. more uh isolated from one another even. though you're living on top of one. another yeah and I think maybe if if. we're talking about like uh areas where. there are poor kids and where poverty is. run rampant then maybe there's less. traditional trick-or-treating but there. are programs and parties and things they. try to do for those kids too okay so. those very things may end up being what. kills trick-or-treating the I should say.

the purest version of trick-or-treating. you can also just make the case well. that's what it's evolving into and just. go with it I think there will probably. be both but you're talking about the big. Halloween parties Community parties. trunker treating trunker treating and. particular or uh what was it called. Halloween uh tailgating Halloween. tailgating trunk or treating this is the. idea that you and we had this at our. school we had the Halloween festival but. that did not replace trick-or-treating. okay this replaces trick-or-treating for. a lot of children yeah so you you go out.

and you get in a big church parking lot. essentially yep and you have uh Bob and. frapples and the dunk tank oh this is. different and huh this is a little. different than that well I mean I've. seen these in person and uh okay but. that's a Halloween festival you're. talking about no no no I'm talking about. instead of trick-or-treating okay it's a. big party okay where they have candy and. they have activities and games and stuff. so are you going from car to car getting. candy like the cars or.

houses uh no not necessarily but they're. giving out candy I mean again my friend. you're not talking about trunk or. treating it feels very nitpicky to me no. but it's not and here's why I'm not. talking about a Halloween festival. though okay that's fine that's fine but. you're not talking about trunk or. treating either you mean you walk five. feet to a car and they give you candy. than 5T to another car maybe even less. than and they say don't play any games. don't Bob for apples or don't do. anything else all you're doing is. walking to cars I'm not saying that they. don't have bobbing for apples but the.

the purpose of TR trunker treating is to. basically set up a safe ring of cars. where the kids are literally pinned in. yeah the kids who used to be the ones. who were running the show are now pinned. in by the anxious adults cars handing. out candy rather than going to houses. walking around a church parking lot for. trun or-treating instead of. trick-or-treating yes these are not the. kids who could pull off that is not. going to replace or what the kids in The. Goonies were able to pull off because. they had freedom and Spark that kids who.

trun or treat are being denied right. that as let me go back to my friend. Lenor skazi she says that trun. or-treating is just another adult Le. Activity one that reinforces the. community killing idea that kids aren't. ever safe outside the home school or. supervised program and that is most. definitely the the message that kids get. when they're trunk or-treating yeah I. think that is not going to kill. trick-or-treating or take over. trick-or-treating we'll see Chuck I hope.

you're right because one thing I have. not seen since I've lived in Atlanta is. any big trunk or-treating. activities well that's because you live. in Atlanta all you have to do is go out. to the suburbs and they're everywhere. yeah but the suburbs are made for. trick-or-treating they're out in the. neighborhoods I got to end on a quote I. ran across a uh a um website a I guess a. Church website that's talking about. trunk or treating it's awesome this. quote it says that the scariest part.

about the night this is a trunk. or-treating night isn't the costumes. it's the possibility that you could miss. out on the chance to use Trunk or Treat. to build relationships and reach these. kids with the gospel well yeah that the. opposite of what Halloween is all about. that's right um you got anything else. it's about arson right 810 cases of it. sorry I'm one of those kudin that it. turns out. uh one more thing yes if you like. Halloween go on to our old stuff you.

should know website and search Halloween. and creepy and you're going to find some. amazing slideshows we put together over. the years oh that's right I remember. those one of my favorite is um cute and. cruddy Halloween costumes vintage. Halloween costumes that were really. creepy best Jackal lanterns all sorts of. great stuff remember those days where we. count page views and get excited about. that. yeah this one felt like a bit of a tie. rate. yeah was it I don't think so okay good. well if you want to know more about.

Halloween get out there and trick or. treat and since I said that it's time. for listener. mail uh this is follow-up on. paraphilia uh that we wanted to read for. the last few weeks just now getting to. it hey guys longtime listener first-. time writer uh I've had this episode pop. up a few times it's just been on my mind. I'm in RN with. MSN and background uh and have. background in. neurophysiology who enjoys studying. abnormal psych I understand you were.

doing a show on psychological term on a. psychological term uh but you may have. ended up painting wrong ideas onto. certain practices specifically SNM and. crossdressing um from what I've come to. know it's extremely rare that people. practice these primarily for sexual. gratification of course these practices. are adult in nature but most regard it. as an emotional practice or exploration. of self for example uh sh Bari or rope. bondage takes hundreds of hours of. practice to perform and those that.

partake describe a meditation likee. State as a result though most would say. it's SNM uh most crossdressers describe. the long process of becoming female as. cathartic and self-affirming although be. it uh temporary uh simplifying. crossdressers to those who walk around. in high heels to reach completion well. imagine saying that about a transwoman. of course if you were doing these. practices for sexual gratification a all. the power to you uh I suggest you look. into Kink culture as an episode it's.

where a wide range of people congregate. and share their interest in a community. that is founded off respect and consent. there are meetups and presentations on. practices so that others can learn. proper technique uh the most that. practice would like to keep their. privacy and that is from Anonymous. thanks a lot Anonymous that was a good. correction email that's right y uh if. you want to get in touch with us like. Anonymous did to set us straight we love. that kind of thing you can uh join us at. stuffy should know.com and check out our. Social Links there and you can send us.

an email to stuff podcast at. iheartradio.com. stuff you should know is a production of. iHeart radio for more podcasts my heart. radio visit the iHeart Radio app Apple. podcasts or wherever you listen to your. favorite. [Music]. shows.