Selects: What are think tanks all about? | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW

hey everybody Josh here and for this. week's select I've chosen our episode on. think tanks from September. 2018 it's a common misconception that. our elected officials in Washington and. the state capitals and everywhere else. make the laws and the policy that they. introduce in most cases they do not do. that that's up to special interest. groups and Once Upon a Time think tanks. were one of those groups and even. accounting for political bent the policy. they suggested lawmakers was sound and.

un biased it was good stuff in other. words but that's not the case any longer. as we learned in this episode think. tanks are open for business and the US. is far the worse off for it hope you. enjoy this episode hope it opens your. [Music]. eyes welcome to stuff you should know a. production of iHeart. [Music]. Radio hey and welcome to the podcast I'm. Josh Clark and there's Charles W Chuck.

Bryant and Jerry's over there actually. sitting in today and uh this is stuff. you should know about think tanks the. thinkness kind of Tanks there are fish. tanks they don't think at all well they. barely think they think this water feels. a little warm for me and then they think. what's water what's being wet and then. that's about it and then they're like. how about some of those tasty flakes. yeah give me some and that's it think. tanks think tanks there's a lot more. thinking going on in these kind of Tanks.

we're like stink tanks it depends on. your opinion and uh that's everybody's. opinion so yes I guess they are more. like stink tanks these days this is one. of those weird ones where. I for 47 years I've just had sort of had. this I never dug in on what a think tank. was I hear it and I kind of assumed I. knew what it was I was kind of right. yeah yeah yeah it's a good it's a good. term for something yeah I was like this. is this like a bunch of smart people.

sitting around think thinking about. smart stuff exactly that's kind of right. that's exactly what it is ideally it's. like a it's like a place where people. sit around and think about things that. eventually hopefully affects public. policy in in a positive way is what. you're ultimately hoping for yeah and by. think we don't mean if you went by a. think tank they would all just be. sitting around going hm I think it. depends on the day of the week or if. it's right after lunch like there's a.

ton of research and study oh I see stuff. like that they're not just pulling stuff. out of thin air no no that's the point. of think tanks is they are groups of. people um nonprofit organizations in the. US we should say yeah which we'll get to. the finer points of that um who say you. know what we see this problem in America. and or the world or wherever Great. Britain has plenty China has a bunch and. they say how can we solve this problem. let's get to it we're going to we're.

going to take this problem on and figure. it out through pragmatic science and. evidencebased research we're going to. come up with a solution to this problem. and then the next step is to get it out. there to the public to policy makers to. get people talking about it yeah and. then once enough people talk about it. and there's a public debate over it. ideally if it's a good idea it will be. adopted as public policy and that. problem will be solved in in a good way.

yeah and that's the ideal function MH of. a an ideal Think Tank which is to say it. is nonpartisan it is fact-based and it. doesn't have an agenda necessarily but. things have changed over the years as we. will see fairly recently Chuck it seems. like and and think tanks can be very. much slanted but we we'll get into all. that that's just sort of a long-winded. setup okay that was a good setup though.

man should we go back and check on our. old buddy. Plato So crates yeah so Plato his. Academy the academy was some people say. was sort of the world's first Think Tank. which makes sense yeah he would get. dudes and they would sit around in the. garden and and I would imagine drink. wine sure and talk smarts and philosophy. and kind of you know like it was. high-minded stuff for the day to sit.

around and think about sort of what was. going on around them and how they could. impact change yeah or thinking about the. nature of reality or existence um they. once decided that knowledge was. uncertain and life is essentially a. craps game based on probability rather. than absolute truth which if you step. back and think about it that is the. basis of quantum mechanics could you. imagine if they had access to LSD back. then I know.

I don't think it would have been too. terribly different than this you know. yeah they they were sort of traveling. down that road anyway but that was I. mean that's that's pretty impressive. some of the stuff they came up with this. is again you know we did a Skeptics. episode skepticism episode no um I'm. sorry not skepticism. stoicism and remember this is this is. where this stuff was all these different. philosophies were all like kind of Grew. From This Academy so you can make a. pretty good case that it was the world's. first Think Tank yeah it's a little.

it's not the first modern think tank but. it it qualifies in a lot of ways no. there was one in 1831 in uh Great. Britain uh the Duke of Wellington. established what was called The Royal. United Services institution which. studied like military science yeah and. then here in the US in. 1910 uh the Carnegie Endowment for. International Peace which studied the. results of military science right and. that's still around uh Carnegie man I. mean they they still have endowed many. things.

yeah they're well in doubt they are very. well in. doubt uh and then of course the Brooking. institution which may be the most famous. modern American Think Tank uh to this. day this is the one you probably hear. about the most uh it was founded by. Robert Brookings in 1916 MH and uh they. had a lot of I mean they still have a. lot of influence but they had a great. deal of influence um kind of post. depression with FDR's New Deal helped. construct the New Deal yeah help.

construct the Marshall Plan after World. War II that was that was huge yeah very. huge both were the for sure the New Deal. definitely was but the Marshall Plan is. there was a survey done of I think like. 450 historians and they the number. one most important thing that any. government has done since um World War. II between World War II and the 21st. century was the Marshall Plan like it it. not only like brought Europe back back. from World War II yeah it set Europe on.

a path away from communism yeah where if. you're not into communism that was a. great positive benefit right yeah and. the way it did that was in two years. based on this economic plan in two years. it got Europe War ravaged World War II. ravaged Europe back to production levels. 25% higher than the production levels it. was at before World War II in two years. so it just went back to normal plus 25%.

better and Europe said I kind of like. this capitalism thing and Western Europe. went that. way uh I was kind of curious because. Brookings uh the Brookings institution. gets a lot of like left leaning uh. criticism today so I kind of wonder. where that all came from and uh the. article I read said that is a victory of. uh the conservative side to have. Brookings labeled liberal uh just from. kind of pounding it in the Press even.

though its history and its member board. throughout the history has not been. liberal at all and has been filled from. the top down over the years with Rank. and F Republicans and conservatives from. like the Reagan Era on through Bush one. and two I oh okay so they've they've. gotten it across as liberal so that. liberals will swallow the stuff that. Brookings is is putting out there no why. would they undermine their own think.

well I I don't think it's not their own. think tank it's not a conservative think. tank well it's Centrist like almost. right down the middle from what right. but I think they want to advance their. own uh with their conservative think. tanks they want to advance them so they. label Brookings as super liberal I got. you so anything Centrist is liberal I. think that's the way it's going down. that's what it is yeah I can't remember. who scored it but somebody has a a. liberal score between zero and 100 for. think tanks and Brooking scored like a.

53 right down the middle yeah like. apparently as far as think tanks go it's. about as Centrist as you possibly can. get yeah and they've been around for a. long time yeah makes a lot of sense yeah. so um not just Brookings Brookings is. definitely one of the most famous around. the world and has done quite a bit of. stuff but there's plenty of others. there's um the Rand Corporation is a. very famous Think Tank yeah which did. you know Rand is actually a um I don't. know what you call it but it's supposed.

it started out as R&D like research and. development Rand Corporation and from. what I understand they've come up with. the ideas for computers the Internet uh. spy satellites The Space Program all. that stuff that America did in the mid. 20th century technologically yes the. rang corporation like thinkers were the. ones who came up with this stuff yeah I. think I knew some of that and I don't I. don't think it fully hit home that they. were a think tank yeah with the name. like the r Corporation right sounds like.

just a corporation but but they're. they're like a think tank that's really. specifically or was specifically zoned. into America's. technology Pro progression I guess yeah. I mean a lot of think tanks can be. specialized like that like some are very. very much just concentrate on economics. some concentrate on social uh issues in. that case technology and then I think. some like uh Brookings are sort of a. little more Broad yeah they they'll take.

any case right they'll take all comers. yeah so after World War II um like there. were think tanks before like you said. Brookings Carnegie um the Royal United. Services Institute in the UK there were. like there were think tanks prior to. World War II but after World War II they. really proliferated and the reason they. started was government was just kind of. government it was a in the in the early. 20th century it was just just this it. was a it wasn't anything like you see it.

now it wasn't this monolithic Behemoth. that has its tendrils in every aspect of. people's lives or anything yeah it was a. little too far the other way where it. didn't quite know what it was doing so. some of those early philanthropists like. Carnegie um and. Brookings they they endowed these think. tanks to kind of help government out to. basically be like the research arm for. government to help direct the best way. for America to go and that's how it.

started out and then after World War II. when America had like all this cash and. all this forward momentum think tanks. really popped up and and there were all. these kind of competing and then. sometimes harmonious um voices from. these think tanks to say go this way go. this way let's go this way but the they. all had something in common and that was. that they were staffed by very smart. people who did very deliberate very good. research who produced policy positions.

that lawmakers could then take. themselves and go out to the people and. say see this is what I'm talking about. here's the data here's a sound bite for. you to make you understand it that's. what think tanks did and in a way they. were they very much were along the same. track as Lobby lobbyists which we did an. episode on that that was pretty good too. but think tanks stopped short of. lobbying allegedly yeah because they. kind of had to um starting in 1913 they. were granted tax exempt status which is.

a very big deal uh because there's a lot. of money involved in many of these I've. been trying to get that for myself for. years and you're right it is a very big. deal the Church of Josh just get it. going that's that's why I'm wearing this. robe right now uh in the 1950s though is. when Congress really kind of because. they were tax exempt had to get involved. and say Hey listen you got to walk a. line here you politically you can't um. if you want to keep this tax exemption. and I went oh yeah we for sure do um.

they said you can't be partisan it's got. to be good information you can't um. slant things a certain way or support. officially support or endorse candidates. um you are here to educate with your. objective work and uh that went along. for a while and then we started getting. think tanks that set out to do just that. um which they are called advoc uh. advocacy think tanks now which I'm not. sure how they managed to skirt unless.

they change the rules skirt those rules. and say hey we're going to be a. conservative than tank or or liberal. Think Tank and still be tax. exempt the do you know the only thing. that I can tell is that they are still. technically producing a public. good if or if they believe that they're. producing a public good even if they. have conservative alignment or a liberal. alignment they're trying to move Society. along in a way that they think is good.

or for the betterment of society that's. what stuff you should know is dude. that's what I've been telling I mean. could we be a think tank no all right. absolutely not I mean think about it. like I I I mean I guess we could I think. that there is a I don't okay let me take. that back no we absolutely couldn't I'm. going to go because we can't be brought. to you by meundies at the same time we. don't have time I don't know that's a. good question but we don't have yeah you. couldn't advertise and have like. couldn't get Advertiser money and be tax.

exempt that's just yeah like I doubt if. the Brookings institutions papers have. like Burger King coupons on them you. never know they should so we'll get to. why we can't be later on okay but one of. the things about about think tanks is. they're they're the reason they have a. tax exempt status is what they're doing. is producing work that furthers the. public good yeah that's why they're. supposed to have tax exempt status what. you're pointing out is a really good. thing to point out like wait a minute.

there's a lot of stuff here that that. they could lose their tax exempt status. for and if we fast forward to three or. five years from now I think we're going. to start seeing them lose tax exempt. status um they just haven't yet I think. is what it is yeah because some of them. flat out like it's so obvious when they. come around like uh when the Democrats. were beaten in 2000 they got together. and they started uh left leaning. thinkers got together and started the. Center for American progress yeah which.

is an economic organization it says it's. nonpartisan but it literally says as a. quote their goal is to develop new. policy ideas okay critique the policy. that stems from conservative values that. raises a FL challenges uh the media to. cover the issues that truly matter and. shape the national debate right so it's. they're they're kind of flat out saying. like we're out. to prove not just have an opinion about. uhuh Maybe that's a distinction out to.

prove that conservative uh economic. values are bad for the country basically. yeah is that the difference maybe it's. like here's our data I honestly don't. know dude it's not a bunch of op EDS. thrown together I I it's so so no it's. not supposed to just be op EDS it's. supposed to be backed by data yeah but. but I mean like Center for American. progress or like the Heritage Foundation. or like Alec uh the American legislative. exchange Council like these are like and.

we're going to do a whole episode just. on Alec one day okay seriously yeah but. they're like little they're like Kareem. Abdul Jabar like karate training islands. for liberals or for conservatives or for. um Rich billionaire followers like it. doesn't matter like that's what they are. they they they come up with new ideas to. push their agenda and then they train. activists to go out and get that message. out to change people's minds to get. themselves on CNN or Fox News or. whatever right and to shape the public.

discussion on on something it has a lot. of the Contours of what think tanks used. to have but there's this whole other. layer of like like senu and gristle. there that that that think tanks aren't. supposed to have should we take a break. sure all right we'll take a break and. we'll uh talk a little bit more about. the Heritage Foundation right after this. [Music].

[Applause]. [Music]. all right. 1980s uh the Heritage Foundation which. you briefly mentored uh mentored sure. that's the new mentioned uh before. before we broke they came about and we. broke a long time ago they said all. right it's 1980s uh we got Ronald Reagan.

in there he is uh watching movies or. asleep most of the time so we have a. good. opportunity that's what they want you to. think he has a good did you see the. numbers about his uh movie watching no. oh man it's great what like as a movie. fan it's great how many movies did he. watch a day that was a he watched a lot. of movies and this is like back when. they just had like reals right film. strips I guess they probably just you. know queued the projector when he he and. Nancy wanted to watch a a good.

oldfashioned Western oh that was a good. starring me can you do the rest of the. episode as rean no uh so they came along. and they said all right Reagan's in in. office here are our recommendations what. UPI would call a blueprint for grabbing. the government by its frayed New Deal. lapels and shaking out 48 years of. liberal policy and it came by way of. 2,000 more than 2,000 recommendations. yeah and they tried to Institute about. two-thirds of them right yeah Reagan was.

like great bring them on here's my uh. thanks for the outline for what I should. do right my plans yeah so two-thirds. like he said uh during his two terms is. what he tried to implement and then of. course when Bill Clinton gets in there. the progressive policy Institute um I. don't know if it was 2000 plus but they. offered similar recommendations and. that's how it goes with think tanks. right now yeah because if you're a. lawmaker and again we said this in the. lobbying episode 2 you're not.

necessarily like some smart whip crack. sharp person no I think we've seen that. played out you can just like get people. to vote for you yeah on both sides of. the aisle this is just a crack at like. you know Trump or anything like no no I. mean on all up and down the House and. Senate like you like to think they're. all Geniuses but they're not they're not. no and you don't have to be smart to. hold office um you just have to get. people to vote for you again which is. why think tanks have flourished for so. long why lobbyists have flourished for.

so long because they're the ones who do. the research and write the policy and. say here you go you want to go look. smart here you go buddy we even like. highlighted some sound bites for you to. go say to people and get the get into. the 24-hour news cycle yeah and that's. one of the big roles that think tanks. play today is by and and have you know. especially since World War II is by. going to policy makers and being like. here's your agenda take or leave as much. as you want but all is back by data like.

it dovetails with what you want to do. with the country and it is just Gang. Busters stuff it's high quality well. researched stuff yeah it's really. interesting because I think there are. still think tanks that only craft. uh only do research and and present it. and say do what you will with it but. those seem to be more and more gone by. the wayside yeah 2010 was a real. Watershed year it feels like for think. tanks yeah like you mentioned Alec which. we're going to cover in full but I mean.

they are they are a bill writing. organization they call them model bills. but I mean when when you hear a senator. or something said you know we crafted. this legislation right that probably. means is an organization like Alec. handed them the legislation and said. here you know here it is if you want to. use it right and you probably should. want to use it that's so that is so Alec. I think does in many ways qualify is a. think tank they're not a 100% standard.

think tank but actually writing the law. yeah and for the the lawmaker to go and. go into Congress and introduce it as. their own bill right that's a little. beyond what think tanks do think Tank's. more like write a paper that says here's. this problem in America here are some. ideas to solve it here's this research. to back up those ideas go write a law. based on it what things like Alec does. is take it a step further but Alec still. qualifies as a think tank and Alec is.

part of something called the um State. policy Network yeah which apparently is. there's one in every state and Puerto. Rico and they're like a confederation of. think tanks that basically sit around. and figure out ways to sue local state. and federal law lawmakers over laws to. try to get laws overturned like they use. the courts rather than the legislation. but um it's still the stated goal is to. affect. public policy and turn it in One.

Direction or another yeah what. was what was the website that you sent. that had just sourcewatch yeah. sourcewatch called them uh called Alec a. corporate Bill Mill right so they are. just churning out hundreds of bills a. year not all all of them get used but. many of them do and it's just I don't. know I don't think a lot of Americans. realize that a lot of actual legislative. policy is being written by McDonald's. yeah exactly it's crazy I can't wait to.

do the Alec one we're both going to be. well our cars are going to blow up right. after but by God we're going to get that. episode maybe we should make that our. like last episode in the year whatever. what's 20 years from now year. 2000 no that was 18 years ago oh okay I. used to love that bit though it was so. good um all right so we got to talk. about money here got it because because. this uh they are.

not um the independent most times these. days they are not the independent. organizations that you think they are uh. they used to be funded by these. endowments and um more and more it's. it's corporations large businesses. sometimes private individuals of course. will give and sometimes it's a a great. workaround for campaign Finance laws. instead of directing you you know tens. of millions of dollars like you can't do. to a campaign you can throw it in a.

think tank that will probably get a. better result anyway that's. new the time was it used to be like a in. my day right a rich philanthropist would. say uh I hate poverty and the effects it. has on Americans go figure this out I'm. going to fund a think tank and that's. what you're dedicated to I like just go. make that happen and that's what think. tanks were originally born from and. that's largely the the only kind of. oversight they worked under is they were.

trying to end poverty or they were. trying to work against communism like. these huge hauy goals yeah now they're. being micromanaged that's one thing. that's happening to them yeah and the. idea that the uh these think tanks are. not swayed or influenced or affected by. their donors is not true and the sort of. the biggest problem going is that now. you have legisl being drawn up by think. tanks because corporations are paying.

money to get research that uh looks like. it's in their favor yeah so so one of. the problems is the like a there's not. as many philanthropists who are just. endowing think tanks with no strings. attached anymore there are plenty of. philanthropists out there still yeah. that are are funding think tanks but. their donations are directed they're. results oriented they're very. technocratic right they want want to see. bang for their Buck whereas before it.

was just like make America a better. place and that was it there wasn't a lot. of like um um nobody's feet were being. held to the fire you know now it's like. we want you to further this specific. agenda which is um uh we want to make. sure that St Louis's children there's. not a single one malnourished any longer. right which is great it's a great goal. there's nothing wrong with that goal but. it's just so very narrowed and tailored.

and there's ways that you can hold the. think tank accountable which is good in. one hand but it's also basically the. introduction of like a corporate. management to think tanks which that's. not really how they were originally. formed and it's having a weird effect on. them so think tanks are starting to say. all right we thank you for this money. we'll go save the children of St Louis. but and by the way shout out at St Louis. that was a great show that one time what. a cool down. so again saving the children of St Louis.

good stuff but we've got all this other. stuff we want to do too so to keep that. going we're going to have to also go. find sources elsewhere right and again. you can find them from other other. people but one of the places they're. finding them from is corporations and. that is having a big negative impact on. think tanks right now yeah and it goes. both ways uh in the past you know eight. or 10 years conservative billionaires. have says that here they funneled $120. million. to about a 100 groups in than tanks uh.

to do things like discredit climate. change science um which I mean dude I. know the the Koch brothers and Exxon. Mobile specifically funded a couple of. think tanks called Atlas uh economic. Research Foundation and the. international policy Network to. basically to basically question the. science behind climate change to further. fossil fuel interests which is see you. guys in hell for that one like that what.

a crummy Legacy to leave on Earth just. to make a few extra bucks forget future. Generations they can all burn forget all. the uh endangered species that are on. the brink of Extinction that are oh wait. no they're now extinct um it doesn't. matter because we made a few extra. billion dollars yeah that's that's. despicable well what uh it's funny I. just watched the movie Chinatown for a. movie Crush episode and there's that you. ever seen that yeah you know mo a lot of.

that movie is about. uh it was originally titled Water and. Power you know because it's about you. know this weird uh political situation. in Los Angeles in 1930s where they were. diverting water to the valley which was. a desert and all these rich fat cats. that were getting the water diverted. there were buying up land in the valley. like hundreds of thousands of Acres. right because they knew it was going to. be a lush green Valley soon right so all. that really happened in La Chinatown was.

based on that but there's that great. scene when uh Jack Nicholson is Jake uh. gets uh confronts John Houston about you. know he's the big bad guy no across and. he says you know how much money do you. need how much how many more things can. you buy or this or that and he says what. are you uh trying to secure and he. looked at him and he said the future Mr. gtis and that's what it is they're not. after more billions. to buy more planes or a bigger house.

right they're trying to leave that they. that's what they want out of their. legacy is they're trying to affect the. future and in their own specific way. right but they're affecting the future. in the worst way possible according to. us and the problem is but not according. to them sure you know but if you if you. pulled enough people and just ask them. plainly if you took money and. billionaires and power and and all that. out of it do you want a better future. for Humanity and for Earth yeah 100.

years from now I would guess the. majority of people would say yes and if. you can say well these guys are actually. doing the opposite of ensuring that. right now how do you feel about that. most people would say I don't feel so. great about that yeah the problem is is. most people would also follow up with. but what can we do right they're they're. rich and that's a great Point what can. you do let me hop back on Facebook and. find a goat video right that's when the. hopelessness sets in and that's what's.

causing the paralysis in our our world. right now is. hopelessness that's that's not Grim at. all is it by the way everybody be sure. to listen to my new podcast uh the end. of the world with Josh Clark it's it's a. really uplifting coming very soon yeah. coming this fall sometime eventually. just stock up on your uh happy. pills uh so in 2013 however on the other. side uh left leaning Weekly Magazine the. nation um revealed the positions of the.

left leaning Center for American. progress and other think tanks in DC are. shaped by interest of their donors so it. happens on both sides of the aisle for. sure yeah oh yeah yeah no it's a equal. opportunity screwing that the world is. getting from lobbying from think tanks. from from wealthy interests like it's. it's both both sides yeah so they're. effectively unregistered lobbyist. organizations now to a large degree. right and because they're uh tax exempt.

they're not obligated to release. financial statements or reveal their. donors yeah so I'm surprised it took. that long for people to be like wait a. minute we can really take advantage here. so let's let's take another break and. then we'll get we'll it we'll spell out. what the advantages are of hiring a. think tank. [Music].

[Applause]. [Music]. all right Chuck we're back I'm a little. warm under the collar I feel like we. should mention this thing uh with the. Walton Family Foundation quickly because. that's interesting I think this is a. great example of what a a think tank can. do these days yeah it's um obviously the. the Sam Walton family of Walmart.

Fame uh they fund a lot of conservative. think tanks I think most people know. that um but then they also fund funded. one uh and think tanks backed by uh. Barack Obama when it came to the. Affordable healthc Care Act and you're. like wait a minute why would they do. something like that if they're a. conservative family supporting. conservative causes then you do a little. poking around and it turns out that uh. critics would say that um the healthc. care bill that forced employers to pay.

for their employees healthcare tax. Walmart was like this is great because. we can afford to do this but our mom and. pop competitors can't right so we're. actually going to try and get this. pushed through and even though at its. face it doesn't quite make a lot of. sense it makes sense to them like why. would Walmart take on the cost of their. their employees healthcare because they. know that they can like go back to sleep. everybody yeah stop asking questions. it's really interesting. it is it's fascinating but that's one.

thing you can do is donate to a think. tank that's furthering your agenda and. because think tanks are now largely. agenda driven there's a lot of think. tanks out there that can help you out. and there's a a new thing that's. happening with think tanks these days is. they're starting to solicit corporate. donations one of the saddest stories is. the story of The Brookings. institution the most Centrist think tank. that has put out the Marshall Plan MH.

that helped figure out the New Deal and. it's and how it addressed the depression. like has done all this amazing stuff is. now they hired a lobbyist for their. strategic development Chief and they're. now soliciting corporate donations left. and right yeah and they're basically. this is this is what you can get like if. you hire a think tanker I'm sorry you're. not supposed to say hire if you enter. into a partnership or donate to a think.

tank and you're you're a corporation or. a very wealthy person you what the think. tank will do is they will. basically get your ideas out there they. will deploy so first of all let's say. there's this really great New York Times. article about the um what was the name. of that company the Lenard Corporation. okay they they wanted to build in San. Francisco they wanted to redevelop the. site in San Francisco Isco which. whatever apparently there was push back.

on it or they were getting some sort of. push back from the residents of San. Francisco so I guess the Brookings. institution went to them and said hey. we've got some ideas for you we can. support this as basically like a great. idea for cities of the future and and. we're going to lend The credibility of. our experts in our Think Tank to your. project and make it Like A Champion kind. of thing like a a blue type and. archetype for how to further cities in.

America your development project it's a. they're they're home builders yeah but. but with Brookings institution behind it. right there was a veneer of something. bigger than Building Homes bigger than. redeveloping something about the future. and progress and Brookings like went to. them and in exchange for 400 Grand. Brookings like added this credibility to. it got Talking Heads out there on the. news to talk up this development and. like what it meant for the future and um. one of the other things they did and can.

do is they can set up Summits. conferences on cities of the future and. get the home builders and lawmakers into. the same room to hang out together and. so that's lobbying sure there's no other. way to put it yeah that is lobbying and. they were doing it on behalf of a. specific Corporation there should be no. tax exemption whatsoever any longer yeah. doesn't matter what side of the aisle. you're on if you're a taxpayer you are. funding. that yeah by by through these tax.

exemptions because we fo the bill for. tax deductions sure so if a single. corporation's interests are being served. even if Society in general is benefiting. in some way that's too much of a. slippery slope that breaks the um tax. exemption status and then that that. should go away and that sadly is is. apparently where Brookings the direction. Brookings is going yeah and others too I. should say oh sure sure um even the ones. that aren't maybe as outright uh or.

aren't as bald-faced about this stuff um. like a lot of Scholars say that you know. bought and paid for research is sort of. the exception still but even even so. there's still places where you know you. may not um you may not push out certain. research if you think you're it might. piss off your boss yeah which is the. same thing or sort of self-censor. yourself if you think like oh man I. don't know like we're getting. donations now like this might not please.

them it might make them look bad so I. probably should just avoid this. conclusion yeah so maybe not a like. completely inventing a study or. something but being very selective in. what you choose to research or how you. research it or what you release sure is. uh you know it's another version of the. same thing it it totally is and one of. one of the other things that they've. been found to do a lot of think tanks um. or one of the new things that think. tanks do is they will circulate drafts. before there's a the final draft two. donors like what do you think about this.

and sometimes their opinions will be. incorporated into the final draft that. is the antithesis of the spirit of think. tanks and what they were originally. meant to do they were supposed to be. like here's the facts right here's the. research to back it up it is what it is. we think you can apply it to make the. world better in this way yeah not what. you know what do you guys think does. this does this J with the kind of SNS. you've selected for this Redevelopment. because we can change this part to to. jib with the sinks you chose right you.

know that's just not what it's supposed. to be and the reason that think tanks. are doing this is they are in um. existential danger through the death of. expertise that remember I talked about. in The Elimination Diet episode yeah the. problem is it's not like America just. said we're sick of expertise we're we're. tired of you experts like you're always. right and we're tired of here and you're. always right people got tired of being. lied to and miss LED and misinformed and. manipulated and they finally said you.

know what experts that's enough enough. of you are full of it enough of you have. let your credibility be co-opted we're. just not going to listen to any of you. anymore because we don't know who to. trust and the experts brought about. their the the death of expertise. themselves in large part yeah and. there's another uh there was this. article from The Washington Post called. or think tanks obsolete which sort of. argues along those lines um about about. and also incorporates the internet and. the length of like a research cycle like.

with the internet and Twitter and. Facebook and things like Ted Talks uh. there's a guy uh Donald Aon a professor. at University of Western Ontario wrote a. book called to think tanks matter where. his conclusion basically is that the. marketplace of ideas he says has become. congested and you don't have time. anymore yeah to do a 12-month research. proposal uh to come to the following. conclusion iions. when 100 TED talks over that 12 months.

will be published not picking on TED. Talks are great no it's a good example. though but you can push out a TED talk. you can push out uh a Facebook live. video as as an economist right and have. a lot of sway you can uh they mention in. here the uh in the article about uh. vaccines yeah for instance uh when as. far as it goes with the vaccines the ran. corporation uh one of the largest think. tanks that we already mentioned they did. like a very thorough deep dive and.

research uh debunking the notion that. vaccines cause autism and it took a long. time but you can get on uh Facebook and. go to a group called educate before you. vaccinate and watch videos by. non-experts and people are swayed these. days by this stuff yeah like why wait. you know thisy the new cycle is so. shortened right you can't wait for a. long deep dive research paper to come. out with some abstract summary that no. one reads anyway and apparently now. they're you know they're written in such.

a way where they will just say uh re. abstract summary this stinks right we. shouldn't do it yeah you know they. become so. opinionated I don't know man it's just. it's it's depressing to think that. Facebook and Twitter have outsized a. think tank as far as they definitely. have influence yeah and YouTube and. basically anything that gives a voice to. the average person which on the one hand. is really cool and great sort of. democratizes it in a way but in the.

worst way at times but it's tied into. this death of. expertise in in a really toxic manner. you know what I'm saying like the two. that that democratization of like a like. giving everybody like a mouthpiece is. not in and of itself like a bad thing. but when since it coincided with the. loss in trust and experts and expertise. yeah that's what where the problem came. from and that was the reason why we. couldn't be a think tank sadly we could. be a think tank now yeah but we couldn't.

be a Bonafide Think Tank because Chuck. we don't have enough time on any given. week to do so much thorough um primary. source research yeah into stuff if we do. if we release one of these every couple. months sure we could be like a real. think tank but it wouldn't be nearly as. fun six episodes a year yeah people. would love that yeah they'd love it you. got anything else. nope I guess I don't either sorry for.

going off everybody thanks for listening. I'm sure I'll get some email but. whatever is worth it uh if you want to. know more about think tanks well I don't. know go on the internet and look up some. think tanks and see if there's any that. you agree with a lot of them have like. daily interpretations of news that kind. of go through their lens yeah um it's. it's it's a way to keep up with things. sure uh and you can also read this this. article on how stuff works works just. not a think tank called how think tanks. work and since I said that it's time for.

listen or. mail uh I'm going to call this a. ballpoint pin addiction or just pin. addiction uh Hey guys been listening for. a couple of months or so new listener uh. you are my first foray into podcast I. just really enjoy listening to you two. welcome I saw the ballpoint pin podcast. and I could not pass it up I have a bit. of a pin problem you see I own many many. pens especially the gel type ink roller. ball pen wa uh you got taken a task by. quite a few people who were just like.

Josh Clark heresy gel pins yeah there a. lot of I guess traditionalists who poooo. that I think they're great I got a lot. of support for that one too agreed we. got a lot of pin recommendations it was. good to see yeah uh and here's another. one uh I own many many pins especially. the gel ink roller ball pins I also own. a collection of sharpies in various tip. widths and Colors oh wow I probably have. a couple of gallon size Ziploc bags wor. worth uh you mentioned the way certain.

pins write on certain types of paper I. think it's probably the roller ball gel. pins that work best on the thermal paper. that they use in most restaurants. remember I was talking about signing the. check I think that's what she's talking. about we still never found out what that. thing's called thermal paper no no the. thing that the check comes out in the. little portfolio the clamshell someone. actually sent did you see that yeah this. great couple sending a picture of a. clamshell check y delivery system yeah. what are they called I don't know cck. caddy we're going to we're going to name.

them clamshells now all right that's the. new name for them uh so I have a. favorite pin though guys I buy them by. the Box uh it's the pilot vball B Green. pin the5 mm okay I love the way they. feel when they write I can't go back to. ballpoint pins I use them at work I. carry at least three in my bag and I. draw on Doodle with them using them on a. news print pad is my favorite thing when. doing word art nice uh sorry for the r. guys have a great day that is from deini.

mberry deini Berry deini mberry mberry. that wasn't going Barry okay well I. didn't know if dein's middle initial was. M or if I was Mish hearing you and deini. and Barry it's actually deina excuse me. deina mberry if I would have said deina. mberry that would have been much more. clear or embery it might be deina embery. what do it say Davina or Davina oh God. how about de. thanks de it's. di at any rate we're glad that you.

started listening to us we appreciate. and thanks for taking the time to let us. know about the your pen addiction um. totally fine with us uh if you want to. let us know about something you're super. into you can hang out with us on social. meds you can go to stuffy should. know.com and find all of our social. media links you can also send us an. email to stuff podcast at. howstuffworks.com. stuff you should know is a ction of. iHeart radio for more podcasts ihart. radio visit the iHeart Radio app Apple.

podcasts or wherever you listen to your. favorite shows. [Music].