Selects: The Soul Train Episode | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW

Hey everybody, it's Chuck here. It's. April 21st, 2020 on our co timeline here. for the Saturday uh trip down memory. lane. Uh this is a really fun episode. So uh I am very excited to recommend uh. this ep from April 21st, the Soul Train. episode where we take a fun look back at. the great great TV show that was Soul. Train. Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a.

production of [music] iHeart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm. Josh Clark and there's Charles W. Chuck. Bryan over there and this is Stuff You. Should Know. Not bad. Let's hear yours. I know you. can do it. The Soul. Train. It's so much higher than that. >> That was good, though. But you you you. dropped it down into your range, and it.

still was You made it your own, I think, is what I'm trying to say. And I like. it. >> Which is old white guy version. [laughter]. >> So, you're not old. You're just. middle-aged now. >> Uh, okay. Sure. >> Uh, well, let me ask you this, Chuck. Were you aware of Soul Train while it. was on? >> Oh, yeah. >> Okay, then you're super old. [laughter]. >> I loved Soul Train. >> Sure. So, I was a solid gold man myself, but I can get on some soul train for. sure, especially like vintage stuff. these days. >> Yeah. I mean, I watched Solid Gold to be.

sure, uh, an American band stand, but I. was just a, uh, a rabid consumer of. popular culture and television and music. growing up. So before MTV came along and. completely changed my life cuz that's. all I watched was uh shows like Soul. Train were where I could cuz you know. often I couldn't stay up to watch um. late night te uh talk shows where you. see performances like this is where I.

got to see live music before I could. start go see live music. >> Right. Oh yeah. That was and that was a. huge draw of it for sure. Like the idea. of just being able to tune in on. Saturday at 11:00 a.m. depending on. where you were. >> and and seeing like a somebody like. Marvin Gay or Stevie Wonder perform. Absolutely. >> Like that was that was a big deal. especially like you're saying if you. were too young and fell asleep too early. to go to a proper show. >> That's right. >> Um but even more than that and like that. was a huge huge mark that Soul Train. left was was just presenting that. But.

that had been done before. There was. American Band Stand. There were all. sorts of like kind of dance party TV. shows. Um, so it didn't exactly pioneer. in that sense, but what it did pioneer. in is that the people that it was. presenting, African-Americans, teenagers, um, who were hip and their. own people and part of black culture and. presenting it in a way that like wasn't. apologetic, that wasn't, um, critical, that didn't didn't portray it in some.

sort of negative light or in a way that, you know, was trying to get white people. to understand it. Just presenting it as. it was and celebrating it. That's where. Soul Train like really broke through. And it's very very difficult to. overstate. how revolutionary and groundbreaking. Soul Train was, especially for how. simple the show format was basically. >> Yeah. I mean, like you said, bandstand. had been around since 1952, and this uh,

you know, kind of was known as the Black. American Band Stand. >> Mhm. >> And it followed that format. It was, you. know, people uh a live music. performance, um a host interviewing and. talking to these people, uh these. musicians afterward briefly, and then. beyond that, just awesome music spinning. on the turntable and amazing dancing, amazing outfits, amazing hairstyles, and. just a celebration of black culture. It.

was really, really cool. And um the. point is made in in this uh in this. article that Dave put together for us, but um it it was it was definitely um by. black people and for black people, but. it was an introduction to black culture. to white kids like me. Little 8-year-old. Chuck in Stone Mountain, Georgia sitting. around watching the Soul Train dance. line. >> Yeah, I can imagine it was mind-blowing, Chuck. like um and I think it wasn't.

just you know it wasn't like you were. necessarily sheltered where you were. growing up whether you were or not it. kind of doesn't matter it was that there. there was no place for you to be exposed. to this prior to soul train that if you. saw a black guy on TV it was say on the. news and he was being arrested for. something or they you know he was. involved in a protest and the protest. was kind of presented in a particularly. negative agitating 80 light. Um, or he. was a sidekick uh on on TV or a servant.

or in some kind of goofy comedy or. something like that. Like, and Soul. Train didn't do that. There was no there. was no. subscribing to all like the preconceived. notions that there had been before. It. was just its own thing. It was like, "Hey, by the way, we've been, you know, we have our own culture over here. You. guys have ignored all this time. We're. going to put it on TV and show it off. And if you like it, awesome. If you. don't get lost. >> Yeah. >> And Dave, um I thought it was kind of. astute that he he said it was kind of.

like a lifestyle brand before that was. such a thing because these people were. influencers. Uh what you saw on uh on. Soul Train. You you wanted to dance like. that. You wanted to wear those clothes. If uh someone debuted a sweet move. >> that you saw on Saturday morning, you. would uh practice that move in your. living room and then debut it at your. club that night. >> And there were like some pretty sweet. moves that were debuted on on Soul. Train. >> The sweetest.

>> We did an entire episode on the moonwalk. if you'll remember correctly. And that. was originally called the backslide that. was created on Soul Train. The robot, the rerun dance. Man, there's so much. sweet roboting going on. >> Yes. Yeah. And that's where it came. from. Apparently, no one did the robot. And like these were like basically club. kids who who now had a place to do their. club stuff on TV and then go out to the. clubs later that night and do some more. and like come up with more stuff and.

they'd come bring it to Soul Train. again. And then kids would watch that. Kids, college kids, adults would watch. this and be like, "This is the coolest. thing that's on TV right now." I want to. do those dance moves, too. >> Yeah. Let's um read a couple of these. quotes uh that kind of encapsulate how. important of a show this was. Uh one is. from uh philosopher, activist, and. Harvard professor Cornell West. He said, "I never missed it Saturday morning as a. graduate at student at Princeton. I. would see it wherever I was. It made.

available to the world one of the great. traditions in American history, which is. a history of soul music. Soul music at. its best taught America, especially. young Americans about color, how to be. free and how to love in a deeper and. better way. Uh, and this from Common, the uh, actor and rapper. Watching my. babysitter get the opportunity to go on. Soul Train was like a dream come true. for her because Soul Train was the. biggest thing then for the black. community. It gave ordinary everyday. people an opportunity to express. themselves. It showed us that we too.

have a place on TV. >> Yeah. Yeah. And I can't imagine what. Common's babysitter how excited she must. have been to get to be on Soul Train. >> Oh yeah. >> Like that must have been the biggest. thing possible. Like they said it was. the hippest trip on television and like. that was not much of an exaggeration. especially at the time. Especially when. you compared it to like American Band at. the time, which when when Soul Train. came along, you said Bandand had been on. since 1952, almost two decades by the.

time um Soul Train comes along. And. there was a TV critic in 1973 who wrote, I believe, for the New York Times that. comparing um Soul Train to the old. American band stand is like comparing. Champagne to Seltzer. Burns. >> That had to that had to hurt Dick Clark. >> Oh, he did fine. Well, as far as I could. tell, everything I've ever heard about. him, he was literate, so he very well. could have read that. And if not, somebody may have read it to him, and it. hurt his feelings. There's no way it. didn't. [laughter].

>> So, we can't talk about Soul Train. without talking about Don Cornelius. Uh, >> no, >> Don Cornelius was the host and creator. of Soul Train. >> and owner. >> and owner, which is huge. [snorts] Like, this guy owned his own TV show, which. was not a very common thing to happen. still is not a common thing. >> They usually put him in league with Desi. Ares who owned I Love Lucy. >> and Mike Douglas who owned the Mike. Douglas show. Most of even like the. creators of a show, you didn't own the.

show that you created like you like have. some sort of deal with somebody to help. produce it or a network has exclusive. rights to it or somebody else at least. own some other piece of it. This was. 100% Don Cornelius's jam. And there's a. legend um that kind of goes along with. that that James Brown came on very early. on in like 1972 or three. And he was. like, "So, who's backing you on this, man? >> Who's backing?". >> And Don, thank you. I can't do a very. good James Brown. Um and Don Cornelius.

says, "It's just me, James." And. apparently James Brown thought that he. didn't fully understand the question, so. he kind of asked it again. Didn't think. to rephrase it in different words. just. asked the same question. Don Cornelius. answers in them the same way. He says, "It's just me, James." Like, he got what. he was saying and he was telling him, "This is mine. 100% mine. Nobody else. owns it. It's totally my show." And I. don't think anybody else could have done. it like Don Cornelius did. He was. perfect for Soul Train. It And I think.

the reason why is because it came from. him. Like it was his creation and his. baby. >> Should we take a break? >> I'm a little worked up. So, yeah, maybe. So, >> all right. Uh, you're going to work on. your rerun dance. We're going to take a. little break and we'll go back and, uh, talk about young Don Cornelius right. after this. >> Want to learn about a terodactyl? [music] How to take a perfect boo all. about fractals gang until the hunt. The. Lizzy board of murders [music] and the. cannabal runs. Don't explain everything. to your brain. Explo.

[music]. >> Word up Jerry. [music]. [music]. Seriously. All right. So, Young Don was uh born in. Chicago on the south side in the. neighborhood of Bronzeville known as the. Black Metropolis. He was the son of a.

postal worker and was a Marine. He. joined the Marines after high school. Uh. fought in South Korea. >> After that, comes home to Chicago, sells. cars for a little while, sells insurance. for a little while, and then says, "I. want to be a cop.". >> I want to be a popo. >> Yep. And he was a popo. also in there. somewhere he married I believe his high. school sweetheart and has two kids. So. by the time he's a cop he's he's married. with with two kids at home, two sons. And one day um there's a story an urban.

legend that as far as I know is true. Let me smell it. >> Well then it's not an urban legend. It's. just a story. >> It could be a true urban legend. Okay, >> we're going to come up with an entirely. different category right now. Chuck, >> right? So, Don Cornelius, officer. Cornelius, pulls the guy over and that. guy happened to be the news director, Roy Wood, for a local um AM radio. station, WV. And as Roy Wood is getting this ticket. written up by Officer Cornelius, he's. like, "Hey, man, your voice is.

astounding." Because if you've never. heard Don Cornelius's voice, Yeah. >> press pause right now and go on to. YouTube, just listen to some Soul Train. intros from him. He was an amazingly hip. cat with one of the best voices of all. time rival Barry White. >> He also pulled over the guy and said, >> "License and registration, baby.". >> Yeah. >> So that helped. >> Yeah. Do it is Sammy Davis Jr. pulling. him over now. [laughter]. >> Hey babe, give me your license and. registration. [laughter].

That was that was so good. So um anyway, the guy like is like, "You have a really. great voice. Have you ever considered. going into radio?" And Don Cornelius. says, "I haven't until now, but I'm. going to give it some thought." And not. only does he give it some thought, it's. not clear whether he actually gave Roy. Wood the ticket or not. Um, but he he. actually quits being a cop, goes and. takes a three-month broadcasting course. with a wife and two sons at home. So, this is a pretty big risk on his part.

and tries out for a part as a radio. announcer at WVUN and gets hired after a. three-month course because his voice was. that great and because his persona was. that hip, too. >> So, yes, Don Cornelius, uh, uh, the the. voice of gold, the golden tonsils. >> Is that what they called the the velvet. fog? >> That was Melor. Oh, >> okay. I always get those two confused. >> And null on Movie Crush, his nickname is. Smoky Velvet.

Oh, that's nice. >> I'm not sure where that came from. Maybe. I made it up. >> Smoky gullet. >> Smoky velvet. >> Oh, smoky velvet. [laughter]. >> Smoky gullet. >> That's really gross. So, uh, he becomes. a DJ at the radio station like you said, and then is hired as a reporter, a news. reporter on TV for WCIU TV. He covered. sports. He cover uh covered uh civil. rights stuff. He had a show for the news. program called A Black's View of the.

News. Uh which is, you know, something. he could only get away with in the. 1960s, >> I think, early '7s by or Yeah, you're. right. It would have been the 60s. Sorry. >> Yeah. And he uh he interviewed Jesse. Jackson. He interviewed Martin Luther. King. >> Yeah. >> Uh still DJing at night. And he hosted. this series of house parties and club. appearances all over Chicago. And he. would take the train to get to these. places. So he called these parties uh. the soul train. That's where the name. came from. >> Yeah. So he's like a a TV broadcaster by.

day, radio radio DJ and sock hop DJ by. night comes up with this Soul Train. idea. And again, so this is like in his. first year after taking a three-month. broadcasting course after pulling over a. radio executive who told him he had a. good voice and he's like, "You know. what? I'm happy doing news and civil. rights reporting and I'm part of, you. know, this group called the Good Guys, these black DJs out of Chicago that were. kind of known as the Arbiters of Cool. But, um, he he said that he had he later.

said that he had this burning desire to, um, to see black people depicted on. television in a positive light. and he. decided that the best way to do that was. to kind of take these parties, these. sock hops and um just kind of cool. Chicago house parties that he was DJing. and just put them on TV. That like that. would basically be enough that if people. just saw how cool these parties were and. how fun they were and how much like how. how what a celebration of like black.

culture they were just in and of. themselves that that could be a TV show. by itself. And that was the original. Soul Train. >> That's right. And uh very key he went to. his uh TV station W uh CIU and said, "I. want to shoot a pilot for this thing, baby." And they said, "Uh, sure, but. we're not going to front the money." And. he said, "I'll pay for it." Little did. he know what a fortuitous move that was. >> Yeah. >> Because I think had they funded it, they. would have had a real claim to it. legally. But he put up 400 bucks of his.

own money. Uh shot a pilot. It didn't. look that great. It was in black and. white, but it was a big hit immediately. Uh, and he said, "Not because it was. wonderful, but because it was theirs. It. belonged to the black people.". >> Yeah. >> Uh, a year later, he moves uh to LA and. said, "I'm going to do the show for real. here." This is where it became. nationally syndicated. uh which you know. I don't know when we talked about TV. syndication but that's basically when. it's not owned and run on a major. network but you sell it to each local TV.

uh station in whatever city. >> Yeah. I don't know what we would have. talked about that on either but um I. would I think we should do an entire. episode on TV syndication. I'll bet it. was world changing. >> Sure. So, um, when he moved it to Los. Angeles in 1971, that black and white. soul train, it used to be on every. weekday, they continued that. So, it was. like, it was two things. It was a full. color nationally syndicated television.

show out of LA, but it was also a black. and white local weekly um or weekday. television show out of Chicago at the. same time for like a good five years. They were both running at the same time. And so Don Cornelius was at the helm of. both. So on Fridays he would fly out to. LA, shoot four episodes, two on. Saturday, two on Sunday, and then fly. back in time to be there for the. afternoon, uh, black and white Monday. episode of the Chicago local Soul Train.

>> Amazing. Working hard. >> He was working hard. Yeah, that's right. >> So, uh, it was a very popular show right. out of the gate, but advertising was. always kind of a struggle. >> because mainstream brands didn't quite. know what to make of it. They didn't, this was kind of the first show of its. kind. Um, but that did open the door for. Johnson Products, uh, another, uh, blackowned Chicago business from husband. and wife team, George and Joanne. Johnson, uh, that they started in 1954. And these commercials are so great, too.

They sold uh, beauty and hair care. products to African-Americans. So, Afroshene and Ultrasheen were the two. big ones in the two big commercials you. see. And they became as much as part of. the fabric of the show almost as like. the Soul Train line or the performers or. anything else really. >> Yeah. And I mean like I think in large. part because they were they were like. ourstamps.com like one of the earliest. and longest running sponsors, right? So. when they came on what they were. promoting with like with Afroshene and.

Ultrasheen was radical and that it's. saying like just let your hair grow. naturally. these are hair products for. African-Americans to use when they're. growing their hair naturally, not. following like white beauty standards, right? So, it was like a perfect sponsor. for Soul Train, which is a celebration. of black culture um for itself. The the. the um Johnson family of products were. promoting black culture in its in like. natural state, too. So, it was like just. perfect to go hand in hand. I think they.

kind of worked with each other, but also. were important independent of one. another, but when you put them together, it was like greater than the sum of its. parts even. >> Yeah. And it was um [clears throat] it. was a big deal culturally. Uh not only. was it a big hit, but like people like. Jesse Jackson said Don Cornelius is. right up there with any civil rights. leader of our generation. He gave people. a chance to feel good about themselves. >> That's pretty great. >> Uh and like I said, I was a little white. kid watching it. There's this lady, Maline Weekes, who was a fashion editor.

at GQ. She was a little white girl in. Virginia and she said, "I watched Soul. Train religiously every week. Loved it. from beginning to end. Even the. Afrocheen and Ultrasheen ads were. heaven. It had the funkiest, most. stylish, sexiest dancers. Everybody. looked like they were having the best. time. All the girls looked gorgeous. Who. wouldn't want to look like that? I was. just a little kid living in the. countryside in Virginia, and I live for. it. [snorts]. >> That is something else. It's pretty. great. >> Well, you want to take a a break and. then get back into what it was like to.

watch Soul Train. >> and be on it. You know, I was a guest. >> Yes. I can't wait. We're going to debut. that clip live. >> All right, let's do it. >> Want to learn about a terodactyl? How to. take a perfect all about fractals. [music]. until the Lizzy Burnal runs everything. you should know. [music]. >> Word up Jerry.

>> [music]. [music]. >> Okay, Chuck. So, we're back. There was. one little thing that I I wanted to. include about WCIU, the original Chicago. home of Soul Train. Apparently, it was. like a rag tag UHF station, an. independent station. And um have you. ever seen that that movie UHF with Weird. Al? >> Nope.

>> Oh, it's so good. But it actually is not. too far off from WCIU. They would play. Lithuanian and Polish language talk. shows, Amos and Andy, um Bull Fights. from Mexico. Like these are they just. had this weird assemblage of TV shows. >> of awful programming. But then their. their in-house programming was made by. like this rag tag kind of group of. inexperienced people. And there's I read. in the Chicago reader this kind of oral. history of the local version of Soul.

Train. The head cameraman at WCIU had. Strabismas and couldn't use the. viewfinder in the camera. It was like. that kind of rag tag group that just. kind of got it done somehow. I just love. that little tidbit. >> That's pretty cool. >> Yeah. >> All right. So, if you watch Soul Train, the first thing that you would see when. the show starts is that classic. >> um animated intro of that freight train. rolling into the city. >> So cool, so iconic. >> Then you see Don Cornelius always.

dressed to the nines, the coolest cat. maybe to ever be on television. >> We make Billy D weep with jealousy. >> He was uh because he was a DJ. previously, he was he just had that DJ. lingo down. Yeah, >> you know, uh, Dave put in one of the. things, it's going to be a stone gas, honey. Like all that 70s, um, sort of. shaftlike talk was was just who Don. Cornelius was. >> Let me let me try my hand at it. You.

ready? >> Okay. >> It's going to be a stone gas, honey. >> Okay. >> I sounded like a a CB trucker from the. 70s somehow. >> Interesting. >> It's going to be a stone gas, honey. [laughter]. I don't know what my problem is. >> Hey, not bad. >> Don't lie to me, Chuck. >> Josh Cornelius. [laughter]. Uh, [clears throat]. you had your musical guests, like we. said, just like American Band Stand. Um, I think sometimes they li lip-s synced. and sometimes they really sang. Um, >> early on they lip sync across the board.

>> Yeah, it kind of depends on who the. artist is, too. Um, Patty Leel, Barry. White, Artha Franklin, Stevie Wonder, James Brown, Al Green, like just a. murderer's row of rhythm and blues and. soul performers. Uh, I think Glattus. Night in the Pips was on the first. syndicated episode. >> Yeah. And like that was a huge favor. that he called in and Glattis totally. delivered by being on that first. nationally syndicated episode because it. drew a lot of attention. And apparently.

from that point on, uh, he was he was. always very, um, differential, saying, you know, if it weren't for Glattus, none of this would be here right now. >> Oh, that's nice. >> Yeah, it was pretty cool of her. Have. you ever eaten at Glattus Night's House. of Chicken and Waffles? >> What do you think? >> I'm thinking you probably have multiple. times, but we've never discussed it. >> Yeah, I mean, when I lived in LA, I was. a regular at Rosco's Chicken and. Waffles, but um, yeah, Glattus Knight. does it right as well. >> Yes, she does. Have you ever had the. smothered chicken there? M I don't think.

so. Is it like gravy or something? >> Yes. And it is even better than the. chicken and waffles. >> Really? >> Yes. >> I can't not get the chicken and waffles. though. >> Get both. >> Okay. >> Just get both. There's no reason to hold. back at Glattus Night's House of Chicken. and waffles. >> Yeah. Eat a little bit of both and take. the rest home. >> Sure. >> Or eat it all. >> Yes. [laughter]. Um, so Soul Train, of course, the the. musical performances were great and. classic and iconic, but it's the dancing.

that is uh what it's really known for. Uh, they got they scouted out some of. these dancers. They would go to the. clubs, and they did this on American. Band Stand and other shows, too, that. had uh that had dancers. They would go. find like the flyest dancers in the. clubs, invite them to be on the show, and everyone else had to audition. like. thousands of people would line up and. audition with their dance moves to be a. soul train dancer. >> Yeah. And um like again like Common's. babysitter was saying like that was a. big deal to be picked and some were.

recruited like you're saying from the. clubs um and those those particular. dancers were usually so good that they. would rise to like national prominence. like the camera just couldn't avoid. them. They also were no slouches at. learning how to play to the camera too. um when the camera was on them or. anywhere near them. Um but one of the. ways that everybody shined too, whether. you got a lot of camera time or not was. in the the um the Soul Train line, which. became a really regular feature of each.

episode where everybody just kind of be. clapping and standing on two sides and. then a couple would come down. usually a. couple, sometimes it was solo, would. come down and do some crazy dance moves. um and really get a chance to like show. off and and kind of capture the. attention of the of the viewing. audience. >> Yeah. If you've never gone on YouTube. and looked at Soul Train Line videos, um first of all, I'm surprised that you. you exist as a human. And secondly, just.

do it and then look up at the clock two. hours later. >> because you will be able to do nothing. but watch those video clips. It's. amazing. >> And what's cool about it too is you can. put it to any kind of super cool music. and it sounds really great and looks. really great. >> What you like mute it and put on. different music? >> No. No, but other people have like put. their own tracks or other people's. tracks to video of Soul Train and it it. works really well. Oh, interesting. >> Yeah,

>> I like the real music. >> Sure. Real music isn't bad either. >> Yeah, the Jungle Boogie one is really. good in particular. >> That is a good one. >> Uh, so they'd filmed four episodes in a. weekend. Um, apparently the dancers were. worked pretty hard and Cornelius was. pretty demanding of them. Uh, you. couldn't chew gum, you couldn't curse. Uh, his mantra was be on time, be. tactful, be creative, be funky, and be. yourself. >> Yeah. words to live by. >> They were unpaid too typically. Um I.

guess you would be paid if you were. dancing to a performer. Um but if you. were part of the segments that that were. where it was just them playing music and. people were dancing, you were unpaid. Um. I think they'd feed you because again, you're doing two episodes. uh over two days, so four total like you. were saying. Um, and I mean, you're. dancing like the whole time. And I'm. guessing that these things probably took. longer than an hour. They didn't just do. an hour and and that was it with no.

retakes or edits or anything like that. So, I'm not sure how long it actually. took to to film an actual episode. But, you were basically dancing the entire. time. Two episodes back toback twice. over over a weekend. >> I bet it was fun, too, though. >> I'm sure it was fun, too. I also get the. impression that it was a little. competitive. Oh, sure. Although there's. a guy who um frequently gets. overshadowed by Don Cornelius, but is. known as his right-hand man. His name. was Clinton Gent, and he was one of the.

uh the kind of co-creators of Soul. Trainer. He was there from the beginning. in Chicago, and he had a real eye for. finding those dancers in the clubs. He. was one of the ones who would go scout. dancers. Um, but not only of finding. people who had like really crazy good. moves and getting them to come on to. Soul Train, but of putting all sorts of. different dancers who would normally be. pretty competitive with one another, finding groups that would kind of gel. together like a family so that when you. go back and watch Soul Train episodes or. when you were watching it when they were. coming on the first time, you you you.

weren't like sitting there seeing like. dancers like kind of sniping one. another, backbiting or pushing each. other out of the way. It did kind of. have this really family vibe every. episode. And apparently that was the. work of that Clinton Gent guy who who. just really knew how to put people. together. >> Yeah, that GQ uh editor really nailed. it. Like it it just looked like every it. looked like a party you wanted to be at. Like everyone was having a good time. >> Yeah, for sure. >> So, some of the um some of these dancers.

went on to be famous and were kind of. discovered there. Uh Jod Watley, uh the. singer, she started out as a teenager on. Soul Train. And Don Cornelius was like, "You're super talented. I'm a. businessman. Um I'm going to pair you. with this other guy, Jeffrey Daniel, and. you guys should record music together.". And that little group went on to be. Shalomar, of course. Uh in 1977, they. got together. >> And then after Shalomar, Jod Watley went. on to become Jod Watley.

>> That's right. [laughter]. Uh, you mentioned Rerun from What's. Happening. Um, Nick Cannon, Carmen. Electra, which I didn't know that she. started out there. That that kind of. surprised me. >> I didn't either. Her real name is Tara. Lee Patrick. Did you know that? >> I don't know if I did or not. I I know. it wasn't Carmen Electra. [laughter]. >> Yeah. No, [clears throat]. it's not that. Although, she looks way. more like a Carmen Electra than a Terara. Lee Patrick. >> Yeah, agreed. >> Doesn't look at all Irish or southern. [laughter].

Uh Rosie Perez was maybe one of the. biggest names to come out of uh Soul. Train. This was in the 80s because you. know you think about the salad days of. Soul Train and you'd probably think of. the 70s but. >> the 80s were pretty big and it went all. the way to 2006 but. >> um in the 80s is when the hip-hop. influence came on and Rosie Perez. brought that uh that Brooklyn New York. City hip-hop flavor and if you go back. and watch some of her stuff on Soul. Train it's like the dancing's cool. It's.

much It's much different than that sort. of 70s groove. It was uh it was that. sort of New York City hip-hop style. >> Yeah. Like she does it like the. beginning of um what is it? Uh. >> do the right thing. >> Yeah. That's her dancing at the. beginning of it, right? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. That was like straight up Soul. Train. That's what she did on Soul. Train. Um which is very much not like. what they were doing in LA, too. So, she. kind of rose to prominence as a Soul. Train dancer very quickly. And Don. Cornelius apparently was like, "Hey, I. want to lock you into a contract." And.

Rosie Perez, being smart, street wise, Rosie Perez said, "That's great. I'll. show it to my lawyer." And apparently. Don Cornelius didn't like this. And as. the story goes, he grabbed Rosie Perez, which is not what you do when somebody. says that they want their lawyer to look. at a contract you want them to lock. into. Um, or for any reason really. Um, and to get him off of her, she threw um. a piece of the fried chicken. she was. eating at the time right at his head and. hit him in the face. >> That's how the story goes. [laughter].

>> That's how Rosie Perez tells it for. sure. >> Yeah. And you know, we should mention. too that that is not cool at all. And. while we're praising Don Cornelius for. his talents as a host, he uh he did. later in life when he was a bit older um. was was he arrested or was he just. charged I think he was charged with um. domestic violence against his Russian. Ukrainian wife? Yes, he was at least. charged. Um I don't know if he was.

convicted, but there was a uh yeah, he. got into an entailment because of that. at least accusation that he had um. abused her and then also apparently. intimidated a witness into changing. their story. He was charged with that as. well. It was from what I understand. though this all took place over a single. night. >> and possibly within a very short period. of time over a single night. not at all. trying to justify or excuse it, but um. it I I don't I don't know the story. behind it at all. Um but I I think it's.

worth pointing out like Don Cornelius. was not just a straight up like nothing. but a smooth cool cat. He was a complex. human being who had faults as well too. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> And flaws and all that. I mean, grabbing. Rosie Perez is bad enough alone. >> Sure. You know what you get? You get the. old chicken wing to the forehead. >> Yeah, you do. [laughter]. I you would think like even before she. was a star, you'd know just hanging out. with her a little bit not to mess with. Rosie Perez. >> No, I would never mess with Rosie Perez. >> He didn't know that.

>> Uh his signature uh sign off was I'm Don. Cornelius. And as always in parting, we. wish you love, peace, and soul. >> Yeah, there were a couple of other. people who kind of rose to prominence, too. Cheryl Song. She was the first. Asian dancer on Soul Train and she said. she had to really kind of prove herself. that she wasn't just like the token. non-affrican-american dancer. Um that. she was actually a really good dancer. and she did. Um and then Jermaine. Stewart, who you might recognize as the. singer of We Don't Have to Take Our. Clothes Off. And that's pretty cute.

because he came back home and performed. it on Soul Train in 1986. And when Don. Cornelius was introducing him, he was. saying, "He made good and we're all very. proud of him.". >> And like you mentioned, the Irish Carmen. Electra who uh I guess stood out because. she was river dancing on Soul Train and. everyone was like, "What is that? >> What is that?" But then everybody wanted. to do it because it was Carmen Electra. doing it. So, Soul Train was so popular. and uh Dick Clark, I guess, didn't feel.

like he had enough money [snorts] as a a. TV mogul and an icon on American Band. Stand. So, he went, "Hey, I'm going to. start my own Soul Train and try and bury. Don Cornelius, >> right? >> And I'm going to call it Soul Unlimited. Uh, I'm going to put it on ABC." And it. was, you can see clips of it on YouTube. It didn't last long, but it it was a. literal ripoff of Soul Train. And you. might say Soul Train was a ripoff of. American Band Stand, fair enough. But.

for him to go after uh the. African-American market like that, I. don't think was very cool. [snorts]. >> No, it isn't very cool. Well, I could. see Dick Clark being a little blind to. the larger implications of it, you know, >> and you know, I don't know if it if he. was involved in its cancelling or not, but you know, some some black leaders. did get it canceled. They they started a. campaign to say like, "No, just leave. this one alone." I don't know if how. easily Dick Clark went along with it or.

not. I like to think he was like, "Oh, okay. I see the error of my ways now.". And dropped it. But yeah, only a few. episodes came out. Either way, Soul. Train was left to like stand on its own. you know. >> Yeah. Which. >> and I think rightfully so too. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Uh there were other performers uh later. on they would have white performers. David Bowie very famously was on there. >> Did you watch that? >> I did. Did a. >> that was awful. >> Did a pretty bad lip-sync job which. Cornelius uh gave him uh kind of teased. him about. Uh and then Elton John who.

was who always had a pretty big. following in the African-American. community. Um. >> you didn't know that, did you? >> Yeah. Yeah. He wrote he wrote about it. in his uh autobiography that I read last. year. That's cool. >> I think it started when um Artha. Franklin covered uh Burn Down the. Mission if I'm not mistaken. >> Okay. >> Was that the one she recorded? I think. that's the way it went down. >> I've never heard of that song before. >> What is wrong with you? You've never. heard Burn Down the Mission? >> I don't think so. I'm not the biggest.

Elton John fan. I mean, I'm fine with. him, but I really don't like a lot of. his 70s stuff. Like a lot. I really. don't like it. >> Wow. But I like his 80s stuff, like the. whole I'm still standing thing. Okay, that's good. >> It was burned down the mission before. that. >> Yeah. Yeah, that was that was in the. 70s. >> My follow-up question is what what what. problem did he have with The Mission? [laughter]. >> He didn't write it. Oh, >> okay. >> Bernie Toppin wrote all his lyrics. >> Oh, I see. Now, I am a Bernie Toppin. fan. [laughter].

[gasps]. >> You're a national treasure. >> Thank you. So Elton John was on a couple. of times and um it's pretty sweet if you. look at the one uh I'm not sure if it. was the Philadelphia Freedom one or uh. >> I hate that song. >> or the other one. [laughter] It's such a. good song. But he would they you know he. takes questions and you can tell he's. kind of shy and a little nervous and he. takes some questions from the uh from. the people uh from the dancers and stuff. which was kind of cool. But it's just. very sweet to see how nervous he was.

>> Yeah. because he's he's known for being. a humble humble spirit. >> Is he? >> No. [laughter]. >> Have you ever seen that that documentary. they made or he self made or no? His. partner made. His partner was the only. one he would let, you know, follow him. around with a camera, which is pretty. understandable. >> But it came out in the last like I don't. know decade or less. >> Yeah. The Tantrums and Tiaras, I think. >> Yes. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> It was great, man. I loved it. >> Yeah. He's good. I like that Rocket Man. movie a lot, too.

>> I have not seen that. I saw it. I I saw. it over someone else's shoulders on a. plane. >> You wouldn't like it. >> I didn't I No, it didn't look like. anything I would like. >> No. If you don't like Elton John, you. wouldn't like the movie about Elton. John. >> No. And again, Sir Elton, I have no. problem with you personally. It's just. that that period through 70 the 70s like. Crocodile Rock um the one about like. Philadelphia Freedom um. >> you know all those bad 70s albums Mad. Man Across the Water and Captain. Fantastic and Goodbye Yellow Brook Road.

Those are all terrible. >> Exactly. I feel understood, Chuck. Thank you. >> Uh so the 80s come along and 1983 Don. Cornelius uh has brain surgery, takes a. little time off. He comes back. Soul. Train is uh has changed their look a. little bit to try and fit with um kind. of what's going on at the time with like. Whitney Houston and people like that. And then hiphop and rap come along and. apparently Don Cornel Cornelius was not.

a big fan. Uh yeah, and I think I I read. I can't remember. I read a really great. article in Dazed about it or there's. another pretty good one that was a. review of the uh recent TV biopic about. him and Soul Train on the Guardian and. it basically explained it like that Don. Cornelius was like a midcentury. integrationminded. black businessman and that he and his. ilk and generation.

>> they had been working toward like you. know getting a piece of the pie pie that. didn't necessar it wasn't the white pie. It was the pie that white people. controlled. And if you, you know, if you. if you made your way to get a piece of. this that like you could, you could be. black and still enjoy the good life. And. that hip-hop reminded him of everything. that he and his generation had kind of. tried to work beyond and past and to. integrate. Um, and that to him it was a. step backward. So, he wasn't vibing on.

it at all. My own personal take is that. he was a smooth customer and he he. appreciated smoothness and hip-hop, especially 80s hip-hop, was the opposite. of smooth. And so he he was not vibing. on it at all. And he even referred to. himself as an old guy sometimes when he. was in interviewing um you know some of. the hip-hop artists who came on Soul. Train in the 80s. >> Yeah. Yeah, I watched one of the Public. Enemy clips and um it was weird.

afterward he like he basically ignores. Chuck D and like talks only to Flavor. Flave. >> and then finally turns to Chuck and was. like and now Chuck D he said you must. feel uh so blessed to have have someone. as talented as Flavor as your partner. >> What really? >> It was really weird. And Chuck D was. like, "Yeah, you know, he's quite a. character. >> as you can see.". >> Yeah. I just I don't know. It It really. came off as like Don Cornelius doesn't.

understand this. Not I'm not dissing. Flave, but like Chuck D was like the he. was the leader of that band, you know? >> Uh yeah, he was the brains behind the. outfit for sure. And I mean like Yeah. Flavor Flave is just like he's he's like. fills in the kind of hardness of Chuck. D. Yeah. >> I I don't Yeah. If you think Public. Enemy, it's definitely Flavor Flave and. Chuck D, but it's Chuck D. Yeah. You. know what I mean? >> And Flavor Flave.

>> Yeah. It It was definitely a strange. interview because I thought finally he's. going to talk to Chuck D and he's like, "You must feel so good about having this. guy as your partner.". >> Which uh which one was that after? cuz. they were on at least twice on the. regular show by my count and then once. on the Soul Train Awards at least. >> Yeah, I don't remember. >> So, it's not like he wasn't smart enough. to know that they were big and should be. on anyway whether he liked them or not. But they did they did Can't Trust It in. 1991 and they did Rebel Without a Pause. in 1987 and I could not find the.

interview segment. I just saw like the. the performance and they were both like. really great. Well, it was very sweet. and and actually um it would have had to. been the '9s one because afterward. Flavor Flave asked for a uh. a moment of silence for the passing of. Miles Davis and Red Fox. >> Yeah. >> And they take a moment of silence. >> That's awesome. >> Yeah, it was cool. So, um, and that's. actually we just, um, in case we haven't. gotten this across enough yet, Soul. Train again was it never got away from.

like its black roots. Like it never sold. out or anything like that. Like it was. like that makes perfect sense that they. would include that part. They wouldn't. just edit that out in the episode that. that they published. >> Yeah, totally. >> That was just part of it. Even as late. as the early 90s. >> Yeah. In the early 90s is when Don. Cornelius finally had to step down. Uh. May 10th, 1993 was his final episode. He. passed it on to uh the younger. generation. It went all the way to 2006.

and became the longest running. syndicated show in TV history. >> Yeah. 35 seasons. >> Amazing. >> And that those younger that younger. generation that he handed the reigns. over to some of the um temporary hosts. included Jamie Fox. >> got his start. Tyra Banks and Sheamar. Moore from Criminal Minds. He was a. longtime stand-in host. >> Really? >> Yeah. He's big time. Yeah. >> I don't know who that is. >> Um I I don't watch Criminal Minds.

either, but you've seen enough like ads. for Criminal Minds that you would. recognize. I'm sure. >> Uh very sadly, Don Cornelius took his. own life. Uh he was suffering from uh. Alzheimer's and apparently was having a. lot of seizures and just in a pretty bad. way um physically. And his son said that. that was that was the reason why he took. his own life. Yeah. Well, also sold the rights, I think, to Soul Train, too. And it. seems like things kind of started to go. downhill for him around then. I think in.

2008. >> Yeah. >> Um but yeah, apparently it was a really. big surprise to everybody who knew him. that he um he uh died by suicide. That. that was not the um perceived outcome. for him, I think. >> Yeah. >> Um but his legacy lives on, like you. said. I mean, the 35 seasons, the. longest running syndicated television. show of all time, in and of itself, it's. an incredible achievement, but also to. be like a cornerstone of like.

introducing black culture as black. culture to the larger culture as a whole. and white culture is. >> Yeah. I mean, that's that's about as big. an accomplishment as as you can make. >> It's like Jesse Jackson said, he was as. important as any civil rights leader. Yep. You know, >> so that's Don Cornelius. and Soul. Train. >> That's how it went. >> If you want to know more about that, you. don't need to know anything else. Just. start go watching clips of Soul Train.

and you will be a happier person than. you were before you started. >> Yeah. Get ready for some sick robot. action. >> It's so great. And Rerun, too. You can't. forget about Rerun. Fred Barry. >> No, that's sweet. >> Um, well, since we talked about Fred. Barry, that means everybody. Obviously, it's time for listener mail. Uh, this is about Iron Maiden. Uh, [clears throat] hey guys, listen to your. short stuff on 666 and loved it. Uh, more so for Josh's thoughts on Iron. Maiden. Hardest working band in the. business. Seen them twice. I've been a.

Maiden fan for about 15 [music] years. and I got to say Josh was right on the. money when he said Power Slave was the. album to listen to if you've never. really given them a chance. [music] So, Chuck, whip out that old bean bag, roll. up a fatty, crack open a cold one, and. crank up some maiden. [music] You'll be. glad you did. Uh, also just want to say. thank you both for the awesome work you. do. I'm spewing, which must be Australian for angry. He. says, "I'm spewing cuz I couldn't get to.

your show when you came to Perth.". >> I think so. Yeah. >> Yeah. You missed a good show. That was I. was thinking about how cool that town. was the other day. >> Yeah, Perth was cool. Uh, your. discussion and delivery of interesting, exciting topics week after week. transmute information and understanding. into very enjoyable entertainment into. my ear holes, bringing much joy not just. to my commute but to my work life. Lots. of love from Mandura, Western Australia. And that is from Ty. >> Ty, I like this person. >> Yeah. >> First of all, Ty says that I'm right,

which I love. >> Yeah. >> Likes Iron Maiden. Loves Iron Maiden, you could say. >> Uhhuh. and is upset that we that that. they missed our show. >> We'll be back. >> Sure, we will be. Hey, you know, we're. like number one in Australia as far as. podcasts go right now. >> I heard that, man. They're they're. practically begging for us to come back. >> We'll we'll come back and we'll. definitely go to Perth again. So, don't. worry, Ty. We'll we'll be there. Just. keep an ear out. Keep your ear holes. out. >> That's right. >> Uh if you want to be cool like Ty and. get in touch with us, um you can do.

that. You can send us an email to. stuffodcast@ iiheartradio.com. >> Stuff you should know is a production of. iHeart Radio. For more podcasts, [music]. iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio. app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you. listen to your favorite [music] shows.