Selects: The Science of Break-Ups | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW

hey everybody it's Josh and for this. week's select I've chosen our 2019. episode on the science of breakups it's. just a straight ahead interesting. episode about people and What Makes Us. tick I hope you enjoy. [Music]. it welcome to stuff you should know a. production of iHeart. [Music]. Radio.

hey and welcome to the podcast I'm Josh. Clark there's Charles W Chuck Bryan over. there there's Jerry rush rush rush. Jerry this is stuff you should know the. breakup Edition right three people who. we've never broken up with one another. no that's true the less three great. point the modern. Triad yeah the Triad uh so I picked this. one out because mainly um it uh this is.

a refrain we get an email a lot um we. hear from heartbroken people a lot sure. more than you would think that are just. like so sad lots of broken hearts out. there and you uh you guys have helped me. with this show as a distraction which we. will learn as one of the official ways. to get over a breakup yeah look over. here yeah. exactly um so it just got me thinking. about like is there any science behind. breakups And the emotions that go along. with it and turns out there's a lot like.

a disturbing amount of study has been. done I know when you look at it you're. like oh man maybe you should have. allocated that money toward research. toward other things yeah like cancer. yeah although social psychology couldn't. do anything about cancer no and it's you. know it's not like they're like oh well. we'll just it's all taken from one big. pool so we'll just allocate some of this. breakup money toward cancer research. sure it's not how it works well you. could allocate the money but the the.

mental energy I guess is what I'm. talking about yeah but this those just. it seemed like study after study and and. also uh we should point out too. that I think there was one case in here. of one study where they looked at. homosexual couples but most of the study. is like cisgendered straight couples. yeah uh through that lens only they're. not doing a ton of research outside that. I found I found one that um.

that that tracks um it correlates the. likelihood of breaking up to time and. they had it broken out by same-sex and. um. straight married and unmarried those. were like the four categories so some. people are doing it sure but yeah for. the most part no and I think one of the. reasons why Chuck is a lot of this is. from the mid 2000s early 2010s yeah and. that was you know that was about the.

last the last like the tail end of that. now I think it's starting to change. fortunately right because people of all. genders and sexual orientation break up. and get dumped and we're here to help. all of you so buckle in grab a hanky and. let's get through this uh yeah I mean. let's we should go ahead and start out. by saying I guess that um in theory more. people are breaking up now because. people are generally waiting longer to. get married right so if you could.

extrapolate that if you're not married. for 10 more years than let's say our. parents were right then maybe you've. gone through a couple more breakups. along the way yeah we should give a. shout out to Kristen Conger of. unladylike media yeah Kongs who wrote. this article our old pal she points out. that that typically means that you are. going to find somebody who you work with. rather than rushing into it but it also. as she puts it like leaves the window. open longer for heartbreak to be dumped.

yeah one thing I saw Chuck this is. mindboggling to me 85% of people. according to this one study um will be. dumped in their lifetime will experience. being a breakup in their lifetime that. means 15% of humanity won't that is. those are some interesting people 15%. have not had a breakup or been broken up. with will not in their lifetime going to.

either never have a relationship or the. first time they're going to hit it out. of the park but that doesn't mean like. or settle I've never been. dumped yeah like they'll never have gone. through a breakup but I've been through. breakups I've done I've been the dumper. right I know what you're saying no I. believe that they will not have. experience to breakup in their lifetime. either way well that's great that means. they they met the person that they love. when they're young probably again or it. means that they deci to live their life.

alone is fine right or or both they like. I said they decided like yeah I'm just. gonna stick with this person yeah I. don't want to I want to be one I don't. want to ruin my record my spotless. record uh I think it's very interesting. here that um. supposedly and this is very hanky how. they found this out about the spikes and. breakups from like that's a Facebook. data poll social media doesn't count.

social psychology doesn't count I agree. but it does make a little bit of sense. and I could see this being true that. generally dumping someone or getting. broken up with can happen on any day of. the year but there are spikes in early. December in early March yeah because of. Christmas holidays and spring break yeah. and technically I could see that being. true there has I'm sure it's true at. least on Facebook and yeah is a pretty. big data poll but it's like that's so. lazy it's lazy but I could see it.

because it's it makes a little bit of. sense that you would not want to go. through the holidays with someone M that. uh and you sent a thing too and this is. important to point out like when the. breakup happens when that talk or these. days text message or phone call happens. it's not okay that is the end of. something. for maybe both of you but definitely one. of you yeah sometimes most of the time. that that actual Act of saying breaking. up that's at the end of many many weeks.

or even months or even years of. contemplation about whether or not you. want to still be with this person right. and that's why being broken up with is. almost across the board way harder sure. than breaking up because by the time. like you said by the time the person who. initiates the breakup initiates the. breakup this is this is at the end of a. long road of decision making whereas the. other person might have been blissfully. aware or at least willfully ignorant um.

or not willing to address the issues and. so they are one way or another largely. caught off guard by being broken up with. so the the person who does the breaking. up has already gone through all these. stages of grief or of Separation whereas. now it's this person the person who's. just been dumped it's their time to go. through it right so if you're if you're. doing The Dumping like the hour after. you have that conversation you're like. what release I'm I'm starting over let's.

go get some Jin whereas the dump e is. like let's go get some Jin that begins. that begins their process yeah although. the only thing I'll take issue with that. whole line of thought though is that a. lot of people even that might get dumped. aren't like what like they may have. known and just didn't want to admit it. or weren't brave enough or strong enough. to do it themselves yeah um and I agree. with you on that I think that there's. still a. thread that they had not been preparing.

themselves just by being in say denial. or un willing to address it face it now. they have no no choice but to Face. Reality whereas the person who did the. breakup was like facing reality and. coming to terms with it quietly sure and. then now it's your turn right which. brings me back to my original point. which is Christmas in spring break make. a little bit of sense because mhm the. person who is desperate to get out of a. relationship break up with somebody.

they're staring at those Christmas. holidays and that first week of December. rolls around they're like I got to do. this now because I don't want to travel. out of town with this person and go. through the whole gift thing right in. the holidays they just it's tough to be. in a relationship that's a lie well sure. because holiday I mean the holidays are. so about like connecting and feeling and. warmth and all that and if you're faking. it or have to fake it you know some. people are like I'm not going through. that no good I also saw explanation in.

Harper's bizarre of all places that some. people may do that because of the. pressure of coming up with a really good. gift sure that the relationship is not. worth the pressure of coming up with a. good gift outweighs the value of the. relationship to those people or there. are some people who don't want to put. their significant other through that so. they just break up. proactively right which also means that. they didn't value the relationship that. much either but at least in their mind. they're not doing it for themselves.

they're doing it for the other person. because they don't want to put the other. person through that that pressure of. having to get the perfect gift yeah I've. never had that thing either where you. start dating someone and it's like a. couple of weeks before their birthday MH. or Christmas and you're and then that. pressure of like oh man how do I play. this one you know like a couple after a. couple of weeks yeah like you really. like this person or like but how do how. deep do I go on this gift here I don't. really know you so I got you a basket of. sock socks everyone loves socks so.

here's an Amazon gift. card for 3850 right yeah after a couple. of weeks that's a little it's a little. close yeah come up with a perfect gift. or even be expected to uh and I did. mention breaking up by text or whatever. uh like you would suspect uh if you were. born before 1975 like. myself um you break up in person. supposedly about 74% of the time not bad.

uh post 1984 if you were born less than. 50% of the time you're going to do that. in in person and they say generation why. whatever that is I think it's. Millennials is it I'm pretty sure when. do they name them like do they know what. like is my daughter have a generation. already I don't know like a name I'm. sure somebody out there has named your. daughter's generation yes annoying don't. box her in right why you got a pigeon. hole folks let her grow up be her own. person uh but if you are J why you're. more likely 30% to do it over the phone.

uh and of course this says a searing. instant. message uh or an email I think these. days you would call that a text an email. is the lowest percent wise and. compassion wise four 4% of people that's. the worst break up by email text is. pretty bad email is as bad as it gets. was it Sex in the City where it was a. sticky note no I don't remember feel. like that was a STI movie. I didn't see the movies sticky note.

breakup I think so um should we take a. break yeah let's take a break man all. right this is going really really well. so far. [Music]. [Applause]. [Music]. okay. [Applause].

[Music]. [Applause]. [Music]. all right Chuck so we've talked about. when people break up how they break. up why do they break up well actually. with there's one more oh okay I think. pretty important thing about the how uh. which is men and women oh yeah uh women. tend to present and this sort of makes. sense to if you want to. stereotypically you know stereotypical.

about it uh women tend to present a list. of. grievances there's all the things wrong. with you B pretty much whereas men uh. it's a little more uh supposedly a. little more nebulous where the magico. yeah there you go that's apparently the. difference is as far as like rationale. for breaking up and these are so macro. level and Broad right and how we talk. about it it's a little embarrassing to. even do but to talk about about this. stuff yeah I know men do this and women.

do this right no it's absolutely true um. that's but I feel like when you talk. about this people can find themselves in. the Contours of I think so of all if you. put all this stuff together yeah if you. just took one study and said that this. was definitive people should should. punch you in the kidney agreed but not. really don't punch anybody you know. everyone over the last almost 11 years. of stuff you should know I've said a lot. of things that make it sound like I'm. inciting people the violence friendly.

violence though I was joking every. single time why someone said something. or no I just I just want to make sure. that everyone knows that Iowa is never. ever actually serious in saying hit. somebody in the head with a tack hammer. or punch someone in the kidy do that a. lot actually I'm kidding all the time. except for when you recommend that you. pants somebody in front of I was kidding. even then in front of a classroom or. that's psychological abuse it is it's. physical but it's more psychological.

than anything you ever been panted in. front of people yes really yes and I can. tell you it's psychological abuse I. don't think I've ever been pantsed boy I. can't imagine anything. more horrifying than being pantsed. without underwear on well I can confirm. that because I can't remember being. pantsed I just remember that I have been. pantsed so I think I just immediately. blocked out everything sure yeah so no. story no story there no.

um no okay uh so if you get broken up. with um you will feel and we're going to. talk about the science of a lot of this. because it's very similar to overcoming. addiction sometimes but um of course. depression and. anxiety uh sometimes suicidal thoughts. sometimes homicide oh sure that's a. that's an outcome worst case outcome. that and suicide of of breakups but it. they are direct related to breakups.

that's how bad breakups can be yeah uh. and apparently you know when people do. write in about getting uh dumped and. stuff I always say you know it's the. most trit thing in the world but like. time is the only thing that really helps. yeah like ice cream and stuff like that. is good but like it really does uh. decrease Over time however in studies um. 8 weeks after being dumped in this study. 40% of people still had of clinical. depression and 12% appeared moderately.

or severely depressed so it depends on. the relationship how long you're in it. how much it meant to you what kind of. person you are but it it can stick. around for for a bit it can so um the. thing is though there are things you can. do to help accelerate the healing. process and we'll talk about those at. the end how about that okay we'll make. yall wait all right so um where are we. at Chuck are we at the the uh well the. attachment Styles I think is interesting. because um we did talk about like gay.

straight. cisgendered uh you know on the gender. Spectrum maybe none of that matters U. maybe what matters is what they call. your attachment style that's that's what. this says pretty plainly that that's. what it comes down to how you attach. yourselves to other people you can be a. needy clingy dude you can be um a uh. avoidant woman yeah or you can be either. one of those things anywhere on the. gender Spectrum that's the thing like. the idea of that women are clingy and.

men are distant is. is fabled yeah or it's at least. hamfisted yeah I think so it's it's sort. of that thing in social science that. bothers me which is like you're either. this or this right like one thing or the. other and really all you are is a white. college student that's what they really. mean yeah who had a little time on their. hands right who needed extra credit uh. but there are two uh supposedly again. two things um attachment Styles anxious. attachment and avoidant attachment.

Conger points out like that's two ends. of a spectrum oh okay and you can fall. somewhere on there there's actually uh. it's pretty straightforward it's um uh. the O ois I believe or OSI it's a scale. where you pick how your relationship uh. is best described by a series of vend. diagrams and one circle is you and one. circle is your significant other MH and. they're just increasingly together from.

just barely touching to almost. completely merged into one single Circle. M and you just circle the one that best. describes your your sense of what your. relationship's like and that supposedly. gets your your uh Spectrum or placement. on the spectrum of attachment across oh. interesting so it's real subjective and. self-reported so that is to say not. scientific right. unfortunately um supposedly two-thirds. of women initiate. divorces uh and in this article it says.

that might give them a statistical Edge. over getting over a relationship because. they initiated the breakup so they've. been in the process already maybe that's. what I think she meant I think so I'm. just not so sure that just because a. woman initiates a divorce it may have. been after years of systematic abuse you. know right which may not mean like she's. so ready to get over this uh quicker. than he might. right you know yeah no I mean you can't.

just say like if x then y right with. this stuff it's relationships they as. messy as as humans get it's a. relationship yeah that's all you need to. say well let's talk about the brain a. little bit because this is where it does. get a little more interesting I think. and slightly more slightly more. scientific okay uh there was a study in. 2011 um by neurologists at the Ein Stein. College of Medicine which sounded.

totally fake totally but it's not I have. sounds made up written down it's in the. Bronx yeah there's also there were also. anthropologists from ruers and Sunni to. legitimize things oh I in the study if. ruers is legitimizing things we're in. trouble oh. really is that is that really I thought. Ruckers was all right or am I confusing. it was Huffs uh you're probably thinking. Princeton okay both New Jersey schools I. thought Rucker was the Public. Ivy.

okay sorry Ruckers I. tried check back them they're going to. be so mad at me I've hung out at Ruckers. I've been there people so you know what. you're talking about I know exactly what. I'm talking about is it like the Detroit. of New Jersey colleges or. something that's not untrue okay all. right you don't disagree boy we're gonna. get killed that's okay so this study. from Einstein College of Medicine found. that just looking at a photo. photograph uh of an ex partner caused um.

the second uh SoMo somato sensory cortex. in the dors dorsal posterior insula nice. geez uh and these areas process physical. discomfort they start lighting up the. same thing as happens as when you get. physically injured basically right like. you are in actual legitimate pain as far. as your brain is concerned in the midst. of a breakup at least when you're stuck. in MRI machine and shown a picture of. your recent X which is a big deal now.

with social media because every modern. article I read about breakups and. getting over them talked about what a. deletrius effect social media will have. on your recovery process are you. taunting. me because this stuff's everywhere now. it used to be easy you could just throw. everything in a shoe box and set it on. fire set it on fire and send it down a. river yeah and a little boat made of. Rage sure um but you can't do that.

anymore cuz they're everywhere no but. that's that's tip number one from. psychologist guy winch author of how to. fix a broken heart stay the H off of. social media do not stalk your ex on. social do not check in like just. separate I imagine that would be really. hard because in the old days it was just. left to your imagination to think about. how much fun they were having mhm with. you know now you can see pictures of the.

nine new boyfriends that she has right. um but yeah you're right now or or you. know maybe it helps some people I don't. know I think it's imperative that you. not do that to help to help like it's. not like watching them on social media. will prevent you from ever getting over. it I think no matter what you do you're. going to eventually get past this sure. but all you're doing is prolonging the. process and that like unnecessarily yeah.

uh and then also when you were on the um. fmri machine and they did brain scans. from people who had been broken up with. recently they found that it very much. similar to people overcoming like an. addiction to cocaine uh and that that. same circuitry is of overcoming. addiction is just lighting up it's that. potent yeah so so far with this MRI. study from Albert Einstein came up with. is that you were in physical pain from. the breakup uh-huh and you're the same.

centers that are activated by addiction. Cravings withdrawals are activated by. the breakup as well that's astounding. yeah and this weird mental cycle happens. basically when you do look at like a. photograph of a uh what they say a. former lover right lover like the Burger. King laying on a rug bare skin rug but. you'll you'll see the photo and the. weird thing is you'll immediately get a. a reward you will get a dopamine hit. uhhuh like a pleasurable Feeling by.

seeing this person that you and then you. realize oh wait well then you get sad. right immediately afterward uh and then. that sadness uh. sagness where did that come from it is a. little saggy feeling that triggers uh. the brain's ventral uh tegmental area. and the. nucleus uh acumin bins acumin bins I. think so I know we've run into that. before we used to talk about the brain a. lot more. I think we figured out the brain though.

right so we stopped yeah we like it's. done um but the these two things working. together regardless of how I. mispronounce them uh they trigger the. urge to see that person so you get sad. and then your brain lights up in two. areas and they you go hey like remember. that dopamine hit you get from looking. at this picture why don't you just give. them a call and see what's going on. right you want the real stuff go go get. them they also those two areas. apparently ALS also um are analytical as. well so they're responsible for.

rehashing the uh the relationship but. apparently they're not very realistic. because most people when rehashing the. relationship highlight the good parts. and forget about all the bad parts I. kind of have tended to do that I think. everybody does I don't understand why I. don't know I don't agree with that. like Emily and we of course been married. so long the subject never comes up. anymore MH but I was always like oh with.

the old girlfriend what was so bad there. and then if I really thought about it I. would remember where she's always like. oh that was awful oh really yeah gotcha. well she's smart yeah maybe so and I'm a. dumb dumb so that but okay so even and. you're not a dumb dumb even if. um like you represent a third of people. or a half of people who do re when. rehashing only think about the good. stuff forget about all the negative. stuff like what is that why does that.

even happen it's bizarre if you think. about it a personality. thing like if I tend to be optimistic. maybe or yeah yeah I guess that's a. pretty good explanation to tell you the. truth what I was going to say is if you. look at relationships or romantic love. sure as um a a a evolutionary drive to. pair and mate successfully over and over. again and to stay together that. bring you back to this person that.

you've already connected with rather. than making you go look for another mate. that makes sense so maybe it's kind of. like a backstop or a fail safe for. breakups evolutionarily speaking right. like I was so close to having nine. babies like do I really want to start. all over again right right which is. funny because that means that Emily's. more evolved than you in that sense yeah. in every sense that's awesome uh but the. the end of that mental cycle basically. though is those areas light up up that. say go back and see that person then you.

are immediately unsatisfied and uh about. the fact that that's not happening right. that's when your pre uh frontal cortex. trips into gear and that's when you get. angry and it's just that mental cycle. that starts seeing that photo on a. social media platform right and ending. up uh upset yep in the end but um the. same study led by Helen fiser found that. um after over time the same process is. greatly degraded sure I think they did a.

followup in well months Congress says uh. found that the whole process in all of. the neurochemicals and the Brain regions. are much less active which again just. time give it time right but if you don't. give it time and you do the thing where. you do get back together uh that that. can be great you know it's um sometimes. you can work it out and people can. change um but there's a big caveat there. there well right go ahead no no no no.

you you say yours okay cuz I think I'm. talking about something else so um what. I saw was that if you get back together. rather than saying like this is a a. fresh start we're going to try this over. again um we're going to really make a go. of it if you do that all you're going to. do is just walk right back into the same. pitfalls and Pratt Falls because the. separation probably did nothing or. virtually nothing to your individual. personality. are the of yours so it's like you just.

magically worked yourct out and you're. and everything's fine that's just a. charade but if you get back together and. say I decided I love you the way you are. and I don't want to be away from you and. I I I just accept you for you and I. accept our relationship with all of its. problems you're probably going to have a. successful reunion if you go into it. like all of our problems are solved. because we broke up you're just going to. do the same thing again down the line. that's apparently a fairly frequent.

thing that something like 60% or some. crazy percentage of um younger the. younger generation Generation Y I guess. um the process of breaking up the. majority of them that that breakup. involves getting back together multiple. times not just once yeah so they're. you're getting back together and just. going through the same pattern I think. there's a a field of thought and. psychology called scripts the are. scripts right that we're we're playing. out one another's scripts and if you.

don't alter the scripts you're going to. go through the same script over and over. again uh you're you're working out the. same things from your past or from your. childhood against one another and you're. not doing it in the right way so all. you're doing is creating conflict and. that doesn't just magically go away. because you spend a couple months apart. you have to just say I I love you for. who you are and we're going to just just. keep going yeah I think what I was going. to say was um don't they think though. that that also depends on just what kind. of person you are in terms of thinking.

either people can really make. substantial change in their lives or. they can't that's how how you deal with. a breakup which we'll talk about in a. minute that sounds like a good place for. a break I think so too all. right. [Music]. [Applause]. wo. [Music]. yeah.

[Music]. [Applause]. [Music]. [Applause]. [Music]. uh before we get to that what we were. just talking about before the split um. this is one piece of data um from the. same seex couple Community supposedly. from studies they do think that same-sex. couples are better at staying friends. yeah I saw that after a breakup yeah. which uh particularly um lesbian couples.

yeah and then gay men and then straight. couples are like forget about it so long. yeah it's an interesting thing can you. really be friends after and it all. depends on how intense and how long and. and how kind of a person you are but MH. um yeah it's interesting when I meet. people that legitimately are friends. with people that they seriously dated. years later it's pretty rare I think.

actually I think it I think it seems. less rare because it you see it on like. TV shows a lot right you know um and. it's also almost aspirational like oh. look at how like how laidback and like. with these people are that they can be. friends after this you know um I think. it's pretty rare actually I think it's. an idealized form right people like to I. you like to think that like you're on. good terms with everybody in your life I. think that's usually the person breaking. up though there it's like I'd like to. still be friends sure whereas the person.

getting broken up with it's like or you. could get hit by a car right yeah and. that would solve the problem yeah um and. then sticking with the whole samex. straight thing are we saying straight. still I don't know that doesn't feel. right does it it doesn't so let's just. say same sex and hetero yeah hetero. there's a there's a clinical name for it. boy oh boy um so uh. the the time and marriage seem to be the.

two greatest indicators at least as far. as this one study I saw went um for the. likelihood of staying together over long. periods of time like all relationships. same sex and hetero um man woman uh all. of them are in at the greatest risk of. breakup within the first year or two. right and then it starts to drop. precipitously but I think. married had heto couples have a fairly. low rate of a low chance of breaking up.

over time it's pretty much flat the. whole time um say and then with same. seex couples the the same thing happens. it the chance of breakup is pretty high. at the beginning and then it starts to. come down and then it's basically tracks. with hetero couples for marriage so. marriage is kind of the factor time is a. second Factor but then time stops being. a factor after like 40 years for. unmarried couples both hetero and.

same-sex they start to break up after. year like 30 or 40 like the chance of a. breakup increases yeah but once you get. married once you get a ring on it um. over time over like you know decades is. what we're talking about your chance is. almost nil of of breaking up all right. like less than I think a percent huh but. that doesn't sound right because don't. like half of all marriages end a divorce. yeah well this thing was way off but. maybe that's when taking into account. maybe that's front loaded by all the.

divorces that happened the first five. years or something like that yeah that. would make a little bit more sense yeah. it does uh they do find that your. chances of getting over a breakup or. adjusting to that new post breakup life. um really centers around regaining your. sense of self um that when you couple up. with. someone uh it's not saying you can't. have a sense of self anymore because. it's very healthy too sure but there's. an an inevitable um absorption and.

morphing that happens and a little bit. of your sense of self goes away when you. couple yeah all the same friends the. same phone number yeah and the same ADR. yes yeah boy what about the couples that. share the email address yeah you mean I. have one really sure never had one but. you have your own too well yeah we each. have our own but we have our shared one. too I think I'm talking about the people. that just have the shared address sure. I've always found that interesting yeah. not judging I don't know anybody who. just has a shared address I don't get.

why people would have the same one I. guess I just always Emily SS apring. address wow is it Emily mindspring.com. no and that is the truth because I'm not. saying that just to keep people from. emailing her uh but uh she's she had it. for so long and I make fun of her all. the time sure because she still pays. like $20 a year for this what and she. was like I've had it for so long that I. just can't give it up that's why people. stay on Facebook yeah like I'm not. changing my email address there's like.

so many memories there it's like well. even that just her contact list and. every email like I don't know I just. think it's funny I was like where's that. money going right who owns used Todd. mindspring the heir of the Mind spring. Fortune he can count on 20 bucks a month. house pack of cigarettes every month. because of Emily y oh man um and then. for. Recovery uh the the whole stress related. growth thing that can happen with. recovery which is um and I think women.

tend to be more apt to do this than men. but like all right you know what I'm. free now I'm going to do all those. things that I lost while I was with him. right I didn't have time for my friends. anymore I lost connections with them I. didn't do I didn't fly model airplanes. or RC airplanes anymore I'm going to. drop some weight I'm going start eating. healthier the post breakup weight loss. is a huge huge thing it is and partially. from stress. but partially just because like I'm. going to make myself the best I can be.

and I'll show her or him I think it's. also like um just as simple as like more. free time sure you know too and. something to do that is you know. exercise is also stress relieving um you. might not be eating as much because your. stomach is tied up into stress knots. right so there are a bunch of reasons. for it but here is that here's where. that um that part you were talking about. earlier I said we would get to kind of. kicks in. is how much of the self you identify.

with um does relate to how well you. handle a breakup how much of your how. much of the you is the we in the. relationship and what they found is that. that's a huge part of it but more. significant is the amount of growth that. happens while you're in a relationship. like you can share a tremendous amount. of the same self with your significant. other and grow as a person as a result. and if you do that um you're actually. going to have a harder breakup because.

that we that that super attachment um. that led to that personal growth is. related to that other person who's now. gone whereas if you were you even if you. were totally in mesed with another. person but you didn't grow much. personally if you experience a burst of. growth after the breakup you're going to. have the easiest breakup of all even. though you were super IM mesed with the. person you weren't growing but then you. grow afterward now that period of.

non-growth is related to that person. who's gone and you can be like so long. zero I'm GNA make myself a. hero yeah do you see sure did they come. across Yeah because sometimes I'm not. the best at explaining things which is. pretty funny if you think about it it. really is um in 2000 they did a study at. Northwestern University uh where they. did find out though that um they ask. people I.

believe how bad do you think this. breakup is going to be if you if you you. know you're in a relationship what if. you broke up and then they found out. that they they weren't as bad off as. they thought they would be which is. encouraging it is but also think about. this Chuck these vultures who are. running the study were like you're in a. relationship just just we're going to. study just in case you guys break up. yeah and so they they would get that. info that self-reporting info about how. bad the breakup would be and then they.

swooped in upon the breakup they're like. how bad is it yeah tell us and the the. the person was like well this is as bad. as it is and it was almost across the. board yeah not not anywhere near as bad. as the people thought it would be when. they were in the relationship yeah which. is pretty surprising and what was even. more surprising is the more in love you. are the easier it's going to be relative. to how bad do you think it will be. during the relationship right which. makes sense if you stop and think about.

it yeah I thought the other interesting. thing too when we were talking about um. getting over uh a breakup and your sense. of self uh that's closely tied to how. you feel about. rejection and um there are a couple of I. mean more than a couple of ways. but if you're reflection of. your how you think about rejection is. tied heavily into how you feel about. yourself so so there's some people that. might be rejected and it might devastate.

them because they start to analyze. themselves and what did I do wrong and. what's wrong with me right there's a. whole other camp out there and I think. this goes into personality and ego and. all that stuff but you call these people. healthy or sociopaths oh you think so. maybe it's probably un wow I just we. just put both of our cards on the table. didn't we but the people that are like. yeah I got broken up with and I but and. I got rejected but you know s happens.

that happens in life people get rejected. it's not because of me just not everyone. uh you know so you find you find this. quote sociopathic I learned that two. people can both be quality individuals. but that doesn't mean they belong. together that's sociopathic to you. that's that was oh wait it says who said. that it was Ted. Bundy Patrick baitman no no no I don't. think it NE necessarily means you're a. sociopath but I think someone with that. is a true sociopath would probably be. way more apt to be like oh yeah well it.

was them not me yeah it's like it's fine. people break up there's a sub a subgroup. to that sociopath as you call it camp. and they are like well breakups happen. um I heard what the other person said. and there's some things I feel like I. need to work on like say I was a. terrible Communicator so I'm going to. work on becoming a better Communicator. as a result that's called stress related. growth is what that's called where you. grow growing out of this horrific. experience um and that's healthy that's.

super healthy uh but they they the key. is what's unhealthy is to say this was. all because of some fatal flaw that I. have right that's part of my personality. that I'll never be able to get rid of. and so all I'm going to do is Poison. every relationship from here on out and. I'm just going to build walls and keep. everybody at a distance and that's what. some people do as a result of a breakup. and you can't do that even if your brain. starts to go that way this research says.

stop it don't you have to disassociate. yourself MH become the sociopath I guess. if need be to say this is not because of. an inherent flaw in me that's. uncorrectable even if the person was. right even if they're like you're a. terrible communicator and you uh have. serious mommy issues that doesn't mean. that you will always be a terrible. Communicator with serious mommy issues. you could work on those post breakup and. become a much better so to the next.

person or whatever the key is not not. being a fatalist like there's nothing. you can do to change right and then also. you should evaluate whether the person. was saying that in Anger how much Faith. you put in their opinion of you there's. a lot of factors that you need to take. into account before you take on that. kind of thing that just puts you in the. bottom of a well yeah where you could. conceivably hang out for the rest of. your life if you're not careful yeah. without copious amounts of therapy yeah.

agreed or turning to drugs and alcohol. which is a big Jin yeah big thing that a. lot of people do Jin Cuts both ways uh. should we talk about some of these tips. from this guy from psychologist guy. winch remember number one is um don't. check up on them on social media good. luck with that here's why he says that. this will reinforce your ex's presence. in your mind and will make it harder for. you to stop fantasizing about your. broken relationship you're basically. just like literally keeping them right.

there in front of your face right. through social media yeah which is why. it's a bad. idea number two avoid creating mysteries. about why the breakup. happened uh and again this is along the. same lines of just keeping your ex like. Forefront in your mind which is hard I. mean it's going to take a little while. sure expect you the next day to pop up. and just be like well they're out of my. mind that's sociopathic yeah even if.

you're the breaker uper um you know it. doesn't mean that you don't have a. process to go through as well sure you. know but that's why he says avoid. creating Mysteries like it's it's. probably going to happen but like be. mindful when it's going on and be like. enough right I'm gonna go work out yeah. or go drink some Jin or both uh number. three make a list of all the compro oh. this is a good one make a list of all. the compromises that you had to make. that you don't want to make again start. to think about like yeah you know when I. was with this person I felt like I could.

never really yeah be have my real sense. of humor out in public because they. thought it was loud that counters that. that um that rehashing that just focuses. on the positive yeah it cuts the legs. out from under that cutting legs what. about number four do the things that. used to bring you enjoyment is kind of. what I was talking about earlier even if. they don't seem interesting now that. whole thing where like geez I used to. really love Pottery right and throwing. clay sure and I just I quit doing it.

once I started dating Josh yeah I'll. have no clay throwing in my house uh and. Josh hated it when Chuck went to The. Potter's Wheel because it reminded him. of ghost and Josh hated that movie so he. wouldn't allow me to do it but you know. what I'm gonna reclaim that pottery. wheel yeah which is ironic cuz I was. always walking around our house dress. like Patrick sesy in that scene. but I still hated that. movie.

oh that was more like the Chris Farley. chip. Andale Patrick suy version um number. five remove reminders um this is the box. that you will burn M which is now just. throw your laptop in the fireplace right. in your smartphone and and then like. reconnect with your friends like yeah. you left them in the dusty years ago but. they're still alive they probably. wouldn't mind hearing from you yeah the. problem here is is if you you truly do. have a mix of friends that you both love. sure and it's not like I didn't leave.

behind all my old friends right or the. worst case scenario is like all of my. friends are from you now what do I do go. down to the YMCA and make some new. friends I guess so uh I found this one. last study I thought was interesting the. best way to get over a breakup according. to science and this was actually. published in the Journal of experimental. psychology uh and they tested a bunch of. Str. strategies for getting over a breakup uh. 24 heartbroken people ages 20 to 37 that.

had been in at least a two and a half. year relationship so pretty significant. some were dumpies some were dumpers and. they said there were three strategies. one is to negatively reappraise your ex. like just think about all the bad things. um the other one was called love. reappraisal which is uh believe and read. statement it's like it's okay to love. someone I'm no longer with like it's all. right and then the third was distraction.

literally the ice cream and and look. over here movies trick the Black Mirror. trick uh and then there was the fourth. prompt which was the control which was. don't think about anything which of. course means you're thinking of the. state of marshmallow don't think about. anything really just undermine the. science of that St clear your brain so. those were the four prompts uh then they. showed everyone they hooked everyone up. to an E machine okay showed them photos. of their ex's all right and they. measured the intensity of emotion in.

response to that photo and then had them. use these different prompts to see like. which one works best when they looked in. the people who were not thinking about. anything they were bleeding out of their. eye sockets they were um and according. to the readings all three all three of. the strategies significantly decrease. their emotional response to the photos. really uh relative to the control um if. you looked at your ex in a negative. light that first one like oh they were.

such a jerk MH you had a decrease in. feelings of love but you left in a worse. mood like that drudged up bad feelings. like you you wasted your time or. something out that maybe or just like H. just really took me off thinking about. all that stuff right you know so now did. this dumb study gotta go throw some clay. that's right uh distraction made feel uh. made you feel better overall. um but didn't not have much of an effect. on how you really felt about them okay.

you just didn't leave in necessarily a. bad mood you just got ice cream and. watched funny movie good enough which is. fine but they said that that doesn't do. anything longterm to help you recover oh. okay just like a temporary whatever does. it prolong it though do you think I mean. you know as much as the people. conducting this stuff it said it's a a. form of avoidance that is shown to. reduce the recovery oh okay so it it. would prolong it then I guess so. everybody stopped eating ice cream and. watching Black Mirror uh and then love. appraisal showed no effect on your mood.

or how you feel about them but it did. dull the emotional response a little bit. so there's really nothing to do doesn't. sound like it I saw a couple more tips. one is you could write a letter that. under no circumstances will you ever. send yeah that's a good trick do not for. love relationships but just like. anything bothering her it also really. works well for grieving too um you just. write a letter sure uh and you say. whatever you want because you know for a.

fact that the other person will never. read it you're your jerk you can say. whatever you want and it's just like a. cathartic process that can help hasten. things and then also why do sad songs. feel so good when you're going through a. breakup why do people seek out sad songs. and the best explanation I saw the best. theory is that a song is a little. capsule of emotion and when you're. seeking out a sad song You're. confronting the very emotions that. you're probably stifling right then yeah.

and confronting it in such a raw form. forces you to express those emotions I.E. cry yeah and that helps you process them. faster because you're you're not pushing. them off any longer you're you're you're. you're expressing them you're sorting. through them so that's what sad songs. make you do that's why people seek out. sad songs when they're down and it. actually helps hasten recovery. lady in. red I don't think that's a sad song.

Standing with me that's the saddest song. you're like. sailing Takes Me Away that uh uh Sailing. by Christopher Cross lady in red and. then um Dan fogelberg's saying same old. anxiety right three set of song Jerry. knows that song Those were two. Christopher Cross songs he's got two of. the three set no lady in Red's not. Christopher Cross I think it is no $5. Gary we're all nodding. now5 is on the table all right I'll look.

it up well you guys will find out next. episode whether I was right or not I. remember the guy's name it's Christopher. Cross oh Jerry's rare doing one of her. rare speaking Parts she says Chris. Kristoff Waltz that's the actor you know. what's funny is I mistyped something and. it changed my search to Lady In Red. Wings like Redwing boots I guess must be. a fetish site I guess so yeah uh if you. want to get in touch with me Chuck or. Jerry you can shoot us an email to stuff.

podcast how stuff. works.com stuff you should know is a. production of iHeart radio for more. podcasts ihart radio visit the iHeart. Radio app Apple podcasts or wherever you. listen to your favorite. [Music]. shows.