Selects: The Manson Family Murders Part 2 | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW

hey everybody Chuck here back I'm still. in my spooky mood from two weeks ago. because I'm introducing this episode. from January 30th 2018 it's a followup. to two weeks ago about the Manson family. it's called the Manson family murders. part two what happens will Charlie get. away with. it I doubt. it welcome to stuff you should know a. production of iHeart Radio.

hey and welcome to the podcast I'm Josh. Clark there's Charles W Chuck Bryant. there's Jerry Roland over there and this. is stuff you should know about the. Manson family part two that's right uh. if you if you're listening to this one. first and you're doing it wrong so um no. need to recap just go listen to part one. go and we'll pick up um with the Beatles. wi album which was was uh a very big.

deal in how this figures in um great. great album obviously as a Beatles fan I. know you're not super into them but uh I. love The White Album it's their um. arguably their weirdest album uh and it. spoke to Charles Manson for sure um. because he really became pretty obsessed. with it and diving into deconstructing. the album uh it's a very dense long. album anyway and there's a lot to it so. it's no wonder that um Charles Manson.

with a headful of acid would think that. the Beatles are speaking to him right. and he definitely did um so he. apparently had a history already of. deconstructing Beatles lyrics but before. he was deconstructing lyrics like. Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club. Band which compared to the White album. is decidedly upbeat and positive right. so while he's in prison he was super. into the Beatles when he gets out the. Beatles release The White Album he's. already obsessed with them but now he's.

on tons and tons of acid The White Album. is kind of a downer compared to Sergeant. Peppers um and the fact that it's. speaking to Charlos Manson like really. made things turn dark it seems like as. far as him and the people in his orbit. are concerned yeah so they're hanging. out they're lighting bonfires they're. doing drugs they're listening to Charles. Manson stomp around with his tiny feet. uh.

in his redneck voice talking about. Helter Skelter which is a great great. Beatles song um and basically sort of. sort of renamed his uh his vision for. the this race war and impending. apocalypse Helter Skelter he kind of. stole that from the Beatles as Bono. would later go on to say yeah he stole. it from the Beatles but he also um took. it again as like a message that the. Beatles were sending him a sign that he.

needed to prepare his family for this. because they were the chosen ones. basically who should wait out the the. race riot and in Death Valley so there's. this whole idea that the all of the Tate. Lobby Yanka murders took place um to. further this idea of Helter Skelter to. strike strike the match that would set. it off to get things going. right and this idea apparently is the. the creation of the prosecutor in the.

case a guy named Vincent bugliosi who. wrote a book called Helter Skelter like. a 600 page book basically this the. definitive True Crime book on the Manson. family and the Manson family murders and. so most of the most of what we said in. part one and most of what everybody. knows about the mans and family murders. are come through this lens that was. established by Vincent bugliosi who is.

the lead prosecutor in the case was. privy to tons of information to to um. confessions to interviews under. questioning to all this stuff but he's. the one who pieced together the idea. that the Manson family committed these. murders to to start Helter Skelter that. was his his whole Jam yeah well I mean. some of the Manson family Coop. cooperated. cooperated it's in there somewhere. cooperated that's a time with that word.

corroborated corroborated I don't have. to say it much luckily because I'm not. in a life of crime mhm uh no but some of. them back that up um and saying that you. know at one point he wanted them to. throw uh a wallet of a victim in a in a. black neighborhood so uh so that people. would think it was you know black. panthers that did this yeah so there was. some evidence that that was probably the. case if you talk though to Manson and. you or if you listen to some of the. stuff he says some of the explanations.

because over the years people have said. what about this part what about this. part and have basically presented him. with every aspect of the whole case. against him he you know a lot of the. stuff he has no explanation for nothing. good but that wallet is a sterling. example of where it becomes obvious that. wait we're we're basically hearing one. point of view about this and we've never. that's all we've ever heard um which if. you're doing any kind of reporting which. you and I are not but if you were. inclined to do any kind of reporting um. you never want to just stick to just one.

source and with the Manson family case. it's basically one source and it's. Vincent bugliosi the prosecutor but. Manson explains it as he told um I think. it was Linda caban to just get rid of. that wallet that he was it wasn't in a. predominantly black neighborhood and. then he told her to get rid of the. wallet because it was hot and she hid. the wallet actually in the tank of a. toilet in a women's bathroom in a gas. station which is hardly where you'd put. it if you wanted.

a black person to find it to use the. credit cards inside and to tip off the. cops that a black person was behind the. Tate Lobby Anka murders so when you when. you kind of dive into stuff like that. you see that there actually are two. competing explanations in some aspects. of this case yeah but I think caban. herself said that too though didn't she. yeah the thing is is if you are if you. listen you going believe Charles Manson. right I know that's that's the thing is. it's a terrible realization when you're. like I'm wait a minute I I understand.

what Charles Manon is saying here um The. W with with stuff like that when you. look at the the testimony these were. people who were on trial for murder who. had every incentive to go along with the. lead. prosecutors theory that it was all. Charles Manson's fault they could have. maybe immunity um they could have uh. they could have charges dropped against. them that by saying yes this is the case.

or having their testimony jive with what. Vincent bugli oi's case was um they had. an incentive to do that whether Charles. Manson is right or correct or lying from. a from a an objective perspective the. people on trial for murder had a a a an. incentive to agree with Vincent. bosing all right so uh the way they got. caught was actually pretty interesting. um unrelated to these murders police.

raided spawn Ranch because um it was. sort of became known that that people. were living there that were out on these. creepy crawls doing these crimes and so. that's why they were originally uh. fingered as they say In The Biz um and. they they went there and they raided. spawn Ranch and a lot of the family were. arrested at that time for like car theft. and burglary and stuff um they were. released on a technicality and then went. to Death Valley to that weird Ranch um.

if you ever been to Death Valley it's. not a place you want to hang out no it's. not especially in the summer time is. that where Joshua tree is no that's it. Joshua Tree but that's not in Death. Valley no there're those are two. different places but is it close by is's. the same type of terrain kind of thing. uh yeah I mean I've been to both are. they similar well I mean Joshua tree is. is the desert for sure but it's very. lovely like I don't remember much about. death Valley that was um I think it was.

not very uh hospitable for me it's it's. appropriately named yeah I think so okay. um and of course now people are going to. say Death Valley is the best you don't. know what you're talking about heavy. sweater um so they go to Death Valley. then there were a bunch of raids at the. Death Valley Camp uh between October. 10th and 12th of. 1969 and eventually they ended up.

rounding up the people responsible for. these murders without knowing that they. were responsible for these murders so. they were they were in jail uh kind of. luckily already in jail when they sort. of decided they could pin well not pin. like legitimately um pin these murders. on these people so this being the second. time there's there's something that I've. ran across in research Chuck that never. gets talked about but is I think really. significant at both of those raids the. spawn Ranch rate and the Death Valley.

rate the the state took children from. this like there were kids babies. toddlers um little kids running around. growing up uh like at the spawn Ranch. and at the Barker Ranch which is. extraordinarily troubling and some of. them have been are thought to have. possibly been um Charles Manson's kids. like he may have had some some there's. just so much free love going on and so. many pregnancies that were the results. of this free love it was difficult to.

say whose kid was whose but it's they. think that it's possible at least one or. two of those kids was Charles Manson's. kids um and they were taken by the state. and later adopted by people but it's. like you know it's one thing to think of. a bunch of hippies just out in the the. desert taking acid just being idiots you. know and then eventually turning dark. and murderous but the idea that there. were kids around at any part of this is. really I find that very troubling yeah. for sure I mean I mean all those Cults.

had kids roaming around um they just. weren't murderous Cults you know yeah uh. so Susan Atkins for her part she agreed. to testify initially um against Charles. Manson um to avoid the death sentence um. which um for a few years more was still. uh a thing in California I think in 1972. they reversed that but uh at the time. the death sentence was was a threat at. the time of the crimes so she had a. grand jury testimony um it basically led.

to Manson being arraigned for these. murders in December of' 69 um she. recanted that testimony um and the deal. was revoked by the prosecutors but it. was kind of too late at that point um. Linda caban who you might remember was I. think the getaway driver and then the. one who um would not knock on the right. apartment door to kill the actor so she. she'd actually didn't commit any murders. at all was not in any of the houses she. was granted immun uh immunity for. testifying and I think she was the only.

one granted. immunity right although I think yeah. they just took the death penalty off. like you said for Susan Atkins and I. don't know if you said this or not but. Susan Atkins is the reason the case. broke open eventually when they rounded. up all of the Manson family and had them. in jail for um the Death Valley raids. for for you know um burglary and theft. and stuff like that the way that they. found out that the Manson family was. responsible for the Tate lanca murders. was Susan Atkins bragging about it and a.

couple of her cellmates going and. telling the cops and that's originally. how the case began against the Manson. family that's how the authorities. originally found out big mouth yeah I. guess so uh all right so let's take a. break and we'll come back and uh talk a. little bit about one of the weirdest. most Sensational trials in American. history right after this.

all right Chuck so um on December 11th. 1969 Charles Manson who the public had. just been acquainted with um I think. just in the last few months was finally. arraigned for um the murder murders of.

the Tate lanca murders and I think the. um did they get him for his role in the. Hinman murder at that point um I'm not. I'm not actually sure about that well. definitely the Tate Lanka murders which. was plenty enough um and. he it's it's it's kind of an. understatement to say that he did not um. offer any public. Contrition he actually went the opposite. way yeah for sure he was um well the. whole trial was chaos and he um he.

incited chaos at every turn um to make. it just a circus and was quite. successful at doing so um initially. wanted to represent himself and did for. a little while but the judge um denied. that judge William Keane and said you. have to work with a lawyer because of. the fact that you're just making this. into a circus basically we need this to. stay on track and um he actually was. successful though man was getting judge.

Keane um oued as judge um and judge. Charles older eventually would oversee. uh the trial yeah and I read a 2013. interview with Manson and the thing that. seemed to still get him the most was. that he was denied um the ability to. represent himself in court like he felt. like he never got to have his say in. court and that was that was the thing. that got him more than anything else not. being locked up for his whole life or. anything like that it was that he didn't.

get to open his big mouth in court as. much as he wanted to so uh I guess we. could go over some of these things that. happened in court um that that led to. this circus atmosphere um and by the way. if you want to see it yourself there's a. pretty good dramatic recreation in the. movie Helter Skelter that was based on. bugli O's book. yeah nothing better than dramatic. Recreations yeah um lots of yelling and. screaming lots of shouting and cursing.

uh lots of disrespect to the judge and. the American flag uh they they threw a. copy of the constitution in the garbage. at one point um very famously Charles. Manson uh carved an X into his forehead. which later became a swastika saying. that he was exed out of the world and. then his family members would do the. same and they would shave their heads. and generally just try and disrupt. things at every turn right and they did. I mean they were quite successful but.

the trial kept going on and on right I. think it was it went on for a couple of. years based on news articles I was. reading about it so it turns out though. that Richard Nixon supposedly had the. most disruptive effect on the trial um. by saying while the trial was going on. quote here's a man who was guilty. directly or indirectly of eight murders. without reason he was the sitting US. president commenting saying. unequivocally that this guy was guilty.

of a trial that was going on which is. you just don't do that it doesn't matter. what the case is not not for any. compassion for Charles Manson or. anything like that but just because even. on the other side you could have blown. the case and and and he legitimately. could have created a mistrial there yeah. just because the president said. something and everyone reported on it I. can't imagine that happening today I. totally can it was a very trumpian move. yeah uh um so we we talked I think we.

covered the Helter Skelter thing enough. don't you we did but I think there's a. there's a big thing that all this hinges. on is that um there the prosecution said. and you said earlier you even had a. quote from Tex Watson that Charles. Manson told him to go and just destroy. the people in that house gruesome as you. can yeah and the prosecution said that. that Charles Manson was trying to spark. the Helter Skelter race war that he. believed was going to happen Manson's. whole thing was this here this is. Charles Manson's explanation for what.

happened and why he's innocent he said. yeah I believed in Helter Skelter yes I. believe there's a race for coming um I I. talked about it at night around bonfires. with everybody on acid I also talked. about death of the ego and all sorts of. other stuff um and if you ask me what. happened was my friends just took things. and went it took it too literally and. went too far and that it all hinged on. this Bobby bu thing right and even even.

before that this lot of Papa thing so. Tex Watson rips off Bernard lot of Papa. Crow and he's got a problem with lot of. Papa who wants to kill him now and. Manson goes over there to help um Tex. Watson solve his problem by shooting. shooting lots of Papa so now as far as. Manson and tex are concerned Tex owes. Watson a debt any kind of debt well. Manson's or Tex own's Manson a debt. now Manson's friend Bobby busay who is.

one of his tightest family members gets. arrested for murder the murder of of. Gary Hinman and Manson says well you. know I mean you should do something to. help my brother Bobby busay and um you. know Tex says well what should I do and. apparently Manson flew off the handle. and said don't ask me what you should do. you know what you should do and that was. that and the next thing Manson knows. Watson and uh Ken winkl and Atkins are.

over at the Tate t at the Tate residence. carving up Sharon Tate and the rest of. the people in the house he didn't say. anything about going to kill anybody he. didn't direct them anywhere he didn't. say anything like that he just said they. took what all the other stuff that he'd. said too far and that really what they. were doing was trying to cover up cover. for um Bobby busay to get him out of. prison that's Manson's explanation for. the whole.

thing well yeah and for and for the part. uh well I guess we should go ahead and. say that um that all of these people. went to prison um uh and Susan Atkins. Patricia krenwinkel Leslie van hton they. all were you know still so under his. spell that they were fully ready and did. take the blame for these killings um but. when it comes to parole it was in. January 1971 that they were all uh. convicted on all the counts um murder. conspiracy to commit murder um but years.

later as parole hearings would come up. for all these women and T Watson and. Manson himself uh the reason why they. were continually denied um even like Tex. Watson became a born- again Christian. and and you know supposedly turned his. life around but they none of them would. would take responsibility all these. years later they would all still say. that it was Manson it was Manson and.

from what I understand a big part of. getting your parole uh approved is to. finally take full responsibility for. what you had done right and none of them. would do it and they were all all denied. over the years um Susan Atkins. eventually died of brain cancer in 2009. um and then just a few days ago um well. Leslie van hton in September of last. year was actually recommended for parole. in just a few days ago as of this. recording uh the governor of California.

Jerry Brown denied that oh really um and. said no she's still isn't taking. responsibility um and I think these. cases are just so loaded still that it. would be really tough even though parole. was recommended for the governor to to. approve that you. know so we'll see they're going to. apparently they're going to keep. pursuing that and I'm not sure what the. next steps are but they're going to. fight that ruling by Jerry Brown and. we'll see where that goes so.

um so I think and then Patricia. krenwinkel is still in in prison and I. think now that Susan Atkins died she is. the longest serving female inmate in. California prison system yeah oh and we. should say too that um squeaky fro tried. to kill Nixon that's where she gained. later Fame oh that was Ford oh what say. Nixon yeah yeah Gerald Ford and um she's. she's out of prison she uh she lives in. Upstate New York and I think the last.

I've seen of her was someone took her. picture in a Walmart parking lot and she. like smacked the camera down yeah so she. she's an interesting case Squeaky from. was out she wasn't um indicted for any. of the murders or any role in the murd. but she was a number she was the number. two uh person to join the Manson family. remember yeah and she um still to this. day refuses to denounce Manson it's. still very much all about Charles Manson. and um just as much as she was before um.

and she went to I I guess I I'm not sure. what she was doing with a gun and Gerald. Ford but she aimed a gun at Gerald Ford. it was the gun wasn't loaded but it it. still had the effect of sending her to. prison for decades for an assassination. attempt on the President right I'm. surprised she ever got out I am too but. she was paroled eventually but she still. she still never denounced Charles man. all of the other ones denounced Manson.

she's the only one who hasn't and. supposedly one time she escaped in the. 80s because she heard that um Charles. Manson was sick so she broke her way out. of prison to try to get to him I guess. yeah she was a Manson family member who. tried to kill the president and escaped. from prison and they she earned parole. yeah hard to believe but I think it's. like you said I think those the case. that Tate Lanka murders were so. politically charged and so loaded um. that that that like it just didn't they.

just weren't going to get out the people. who actually committed the the murders. yeah yeah Manson had a interesting time. in prison too he had a a guy try and. kill him by lighting him on fire at one. point uh and like I think like 20% of. his body was badly burned and he had a a. string of. uh of relationships with people from pin. Pals which will kind of cover at the end. to a uh to a woman that he did he.

actually marry that woman recently I. don't I don't know she was in that 2013. article that I was reading um and I. don't know if they got married man we. should do I don't know what we would. call it but an episode on uh generally. women who who marry serial killers we. totally should in prison let's do that. but first let's take a break how about. that yeah let's do it okay.

okay Chuck we're back we were talking. about so Manson's in prison for a while. there this is just mindblowing to me for.

a good decade he enjoyed uh actually. more than that he enjoyed the Limelight. he he could get um interviewed by huge. names like you said Diane Sawyer Charlie. Rose Heraldo Rivera very famously did an. interview with um Charles Manson where. apparently Manson you were saying how. much Poise Diane Sawyer showed during. her interview supposedly Manson just. owned Heraldo during that interview it. just totally took control of the whole. thing. but um these were things that were.

televised like on on. National national news and and these. these people were giving these networks. were giving Charles Manson a platform to. talk about himself to talk about his. philosophy to show the world how crazy. he was he loved it to oh yes to keep him. in the public in the public eye in the. public mind until finally after the. Diane Sawyer interview they they not. only pulled the plug on his interviews. they said for there you couldn't. televise interviews with any inmates.

from in California because of Charles. Manson basically so um it's just really. strange to me especially these days. looking back that he had a platform for. so long to stay that boogeyman you know. that that just scared the B Jesus out of. America yeah I think those last like. whatever like 23 25 years in prison with. no uh Limelight was that had to have. been like the darkest time of his life. cuz yeah you know he wanted he clearly.

wanted to be a a singing star and in a. weird way he ended up kind of getting. what he wanted because some of his music. ended up being recorded by you know the. guns and roses and the lemon heads and. um he became this kind of weird uh cult. figure and not as in uh Jim James cult. oh movie type My Morning Jacket. Jim Jones but like a yeah like a cult.

figure and uh revered by some people. weirdly it just it's so strange that. right people would look at him that way. you know so one person who uh revered. him later on in life was a woman I. believe he named. star um and she moved from her parents. house in Mississippi out to California. to be just down the street from where um. Manson was held and this is she was the. woman who was um supposed to to marry.

him right um and she was a follower of. his she said she didn't care anything. about. 1969 he so Manson later in life became. really uh interested in um preserving. the uh. environment he came up with this thing. called atwa uh air trees water I can't. remember the last a air yeah air again. that would be.

right so um she became very interested. in him for his ecological stance right. and she moved out to be close to him and. we visit him on weekends and they became. very close and I I guess to kind of. demonstrate to the world that he he. still had it I still got it world yeah. he um asked her to carve an X in her. forehead and she did w so um she was. also big time. into collecting selling Manson. memorabilia and Ed points out in this.

article I think he's referring to her. that the whole marriage thing may have. been a ploy to get at Manson memorabilia. but I don't believe that's the case at. all so she actually ran a website and. still does called Manson direct.com and. it's it's like up to date so I I think. she had not abandoned him after some big. big score with memorabilia like she. seems to have been the the real deal. follower like a a early Manson family.

girl. reincarnated. huh. weird so there were a bunch of other uh. I saw an article where there at least 10. other weird deaths related to the Manson. family that um some people say could. have been them or maybe not I looked. into a few of them there was his. original or at least this guy was. originally going to represent mansom is. his an attorney named Ron Hughes. he ended up representing I think Leslie.

van hton yeah but she uh he disappeared. while on a uh there was a 10day recess. in the trial so he goes camping with. another couple and the couple left and. he's like I'm going to stay on here in. the woods he was never seen again so. that was a little weird they never found. a body or anything I don't think it. wasn't they even though he was one of. their defense attorneys they had a huge. grudge against him because like you said. earlier van hton um kren Winkle and. Atkins were all. um or not Atkins I can't remember who.

the third one was were all going to to. incriminate themselves so as Leslie van. Hon's defense attorney he said I'm not I. he rested after the prosecution rested. he never presented a defense because he. knew that they were going to incriminate. themselves and he refused to take part. in it so they had a grudge against him. so so it's possible possibly uh there. was a spawn Ranch worker uh that that. disappeared and he would they were. actually convicted some other family. members of his murdered his name was. shorty Shay Donald shorty Shay mhm uh.

there was this one dude Joel Pew who was. married to Sandra good who was a me a. member and he uh he was found dead in. his London hotel he had um it was ruled. of suicide but his wrist had been. slashed and his throat was slashed twice. and there was something Written in Blood. on the mirror that uh was erased you. know was one of these jobs I think by. the London cops but some say it said.

Jack and Jill other people say they. don't remember what it said but that was. definitely a one of those that was like. H could he have been killed by a Manson. family member yeah well the list goes on. one of those um Manson family members. who was convicted of killing shorty Shay. had made a couple trips to the UK while. Joel Pew was there oh so there's even. there's even more there's it's. definitely weird that he died like that. yeah you know having your throat slashed.

in a London hotel it's weird no matter. what uh and so like we said you know you. said at the beginning it was definitely. the end of the Peace Love movement and. um sort of put a pin. on what the um what people thought about. what a lot of people thought about The. Counter Culture and like hey this is. this these are the hippies they're not. peace and love they can murder people on. drugs and this is what acid can do to. you so that was mainstream media you had.

other um alternative Media or places. like Rolling Stone that was still a. pretty young magazine that would uh. would not say things like that would not. kind of buy into the mainstream media. portrayal but um it it captured and. still captures uh a lot of people's um. Imagination you know it was a part of. the Zeitgeist but it just endured for. decades after you know uh for sure and. rolling stone actually did tremendous. amount of reporting on um Charles Manson.

that was really good at the time that. 2013 article I read was really good uh. that was from Rolling Stone you can get. into a Manson Rabbit Hole just going. onto Rolling Stone's website and that. that 200 um the 2013 article I read. Chuck the the author um he I think he. kind of summed up Charles Manson better. than I've seen it anywhere else but he. said he said sometimes he can be so.

transparent which makes him look like. nothing more than a goofy clutzy small. timer who made some bad decisions that. led to more bad decisions that led to. murder and who then got caught up in an. ambitious DA's dream about a mastermind. sangy with demonic visions of world. domination some crook some Outlaw some. gangster some Desperado probably the. worst ever but in the end a tiny redneck. I mean that definitely Falls in there. too yeah. so as far as these kids go um it's kind.

of hard to get good information because. I read a bunch of different things but. from what I can tell he had three. sons for sure yeah one with candy. Stevens named Charles Luther. Manson uh one with Mary Bruner named. Valentine or Valentine Michael Manson uh. those two guys are impossible to find. anything on I'm sure they probably. changed their names mhm uh there was a.

Charles Manson Jr who killed himself in. the I think early 90s yeah. 93 and then there's this dude did you. see this Matthew Roberts guy I I ran. across his name but I don't know. anything about him well he claims to uh. that his mother said you know what um. Charles Manson was your dad we um had. sex in an orgy. in San Francisco in the late 60s M and I.

believe that he is probably your father. although given that it's an orgy you. know those things go so that is the last. that's the last thing you ever want to. hear your mom tell you that whole story. The Whole Story from beginning to end is. just bad news for you the kid yeah so. just look this guy up and if he doesn't. look like Charles Manson incarnate then. I don't know what to say. but the dude looks exactly like him um.

here's the deal though is he ended up uh. he tried to get DNA from the prison. tried to smuggle it out but it got. contaminated the test didn't work he. ended up taking a DNA test to match with. who we know was Charles Manson Jr son a. dude named Jason Freeman who was you. know the grandson of Charles Manson okay. and there was no match there um but. Matthew Robert say well that doesn't. prove anything cuzz we've never seen the.

DNA match from Freeman and Manson oh I. see so he's still claiming to be his son. and um I mean the guy looks so much like. him it's a little creepy so it it's hard. to not say you know why would his mom. make up the story the guy happens to. look just like him MH um but who knows. um and in the end his will and. supposedly his estate is worth money um. I don't know how much but they say you. know there could be a lot of dough there. and right now there's a legal battle. going on between Jason Freeman who is.

the grandson and then this pin pal that. uh Manson had for like decades named. Michael channels who he scribbled out a. will to this guy and he saying hey look. he wrote this will he wants me to have. this money Jason Freeman saying it's. mine um for their part they're both. saying what they want to do his body's. on Ice Still as they want to uh they. both want to scatter his ashes just. where no one knows so there it doesn't. become like some weird Shrine yeah but.

uh the the ongoing legal battle for his. will we we'll see what happens there so. in that star lady weighed in saying if. anybody who says he has a will is lying. that he purposefully said he was not. going to leave a will right but it would. just it would be just like Charles. Manson to to scribble off a whe deny. that he ever did it and just leave a big. mess behind afterward you know yeah just. just one more mess for everybody to sort. out so strange so sad strange and sad. absolutely in the 60s there was some I.

know he talked about the uh who was that. one cult that I saw the documentary with. Father Zod or. whatever oh man that was a crazy. documentary that I mean just that whole. time was so so strange it really was. just people looking for something to to. belong to or something some meaning that. wasn't their parents meaning you know. yeah. yeah well all right Chuck they found it. by the way they found it they all became.

stock brokers in the. 80s uh if you want to know more about. the Manson family well like I said. there's rabbit holes all over the. Internet um and in the meantime you can. also read this great article by egg. Grabowski by typing the words Manson. family in the search bar at how stuff. works and like I said it'll bring up. this great grabster article uh and while. I said that it's it's time for listener. mail I'm going to call this.

uh Confederate monuments well not. Confederate monuments but removal of. monuments followup nice so we got a lot. of great email about that podcast um I. don't know how many of those you read. but you know people roundly said we did. a good Fair take on this tricky subject. yeah I saw that too which always makes. me feel good uh and a shout out this is. not from her but uh one of the people. who wrote in was an artist named Cara uh. Cara Walker mhm who just look up her.

work she is amazing she she's I think. the the second youngest person ever. receive a MacArthur genius Grant uh and. she does these great uh she does a lot. of stuff and a lot of mediums but what. she's known for I think of these. room-sized um silhouette like black. cutout Silhouettes depicting like. statements on race and gender and uh. civil rights and she's just like a rock. star in the new New York art scene and. she went to my high school yeah I saw.

that did not know that she introduced. herself she graduated two years ahead of. me at Redan so uh I wrote back to her. and just told her how proud I was to be. in Alum nice so anyway go check out Carl. uh Carl Walker's work that's a mouthful. it is but this is from someone else hey. guys thanks so much for the podcast I'm. a big fan especially enjoyed the uh. public monument episode I'm writing to. clarify small point about the Georgia. state flag that Chuck discussed in that. episode I got this thing wrong by the.

way uh you pointed out that Georgia like. some other former Confederate states. included The Familiar Confederate Battle. Flag with the x pattern in its state. flag from 56 to 2001 however that flag. is not the stars and bars the stars and. bars was the official national flag of. the Confederacy and is the flag after. which the current Georgia flag is. patterned uh it turns out that the flag. Georgia used uh till 1956 was modeled. after the national Confederate flag and. the state switched to the Confederate.

Battle Flag in 56 in other words while. the most familiar Confederate flag was. removed in 2001 it was replaced with. another. one that's so Georgia I thought we did. the right thing no so I thought you guys. would be interested by the way. Mississippi is the only state that still. uses the Confederate Battle Flag and its. official state flag keep up the great. work and I don't have a name on this one. well thanks a lot I don't have a name on. this one that was some good info we. appreciate that and Chuck that was big.

of you to to say hey I got it wrong I. got it wrong that's all right man that's. all right uh if you want to write in to. tell us we got something wrong lay it on. us that's fine you can send us all. including Jerry an email to stuff. podcast at howstuffworks.com and as. always join us at our home on the web. stuff should know.com. stuff you should know is a production of. iHeart radio for more podcasts myart. radio visit the iHeart Radio app Apple. podcasts or wherever you listen to your.

favorite shows.