Selects: The Collar Bomb Heist | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW

hi everybody Chuck here curating a. specially. handpicked selected episode this one's. for May 2018 and boy oh boy this is a. good one I forgot all about this one. this is part of our true crime series. not so Grizzly as far as uh like you. know it's not about an axe murder or. anything like that it's about a heist. and I'd love me some Heist and this is. called the color bomb Heist.

welcome to stuff you should know a. production of iHeart. Radio hey and welcome to the podcast I'm. Josh Clark with Charles W Chuck Bryant. and Jerry's over there and this is stuff. you should know the True Crime Edition. again yeah we've done a few of these. right true crime is so hot right now hey. man we were we were dabbling on the. periphery of True Crime.

when most of these people were wetting. their diapers that's right man that is. right I'm glad somebody finally said it. we were occasionally doing a poor job of. covering True Crime 10 years. ago that's right we're going to do it. again that's right we continue that. great Rich history yeah because True. Crime can be extraordinarily interesting. especially when you're talking about an. extraordinarily over complicated Heist. that results in a man bizarre death.

death by bizarre means MH and. involves what really ultimately you. could make a case is an unsolved mystery. still today even though it's technically. bureaucratically been solved a lot of. people say no this thing hasn't been. solved yet you you got got homemade. bombs you got a scavenger. hunt got a crack dealer well you got to. have the crack dealer got.

prostitutes you got. pizza and yeah and let's start with the. pizza show got a geom Metro right which. by the way I just wanted to point out. ahead of time there is no more pizza. delivery. car 2003 than a geom Metro a teal one no. less yeah the thing is it's almost like. they rolled them right off the line in. 2003 straight to a pizza place with the. pizza guy inside already yeah in the. little side magnet it on top right a.

little crooked yep so the whole thing. does start actually with a pizza guy a. pizza place and a teal geom Metro and. like you said the whole thing starts in. 2003 in Eerie. Pennsylvania and there was a and still. is I looked it up there's a pizza place. called mam Mia's. Pizzeria little on the nose but fine. sure it gets the job done right m and at.

about 2 pm on August 28th 2003 a uh. pizza delivery guy named Brian Wells I. think he was 46 at the time he was about. to end his morning shift When A call. came in for two small sausage and. pepperoni pizzas and the the uh delivery. was I guess the opposite way of where. Brian WS was going to go on his way home. but he said you know what I'll take this. one last order and he walked out the. door at about.

2 and the next time that Brian Wells was. seen in public again he was entering a. PNC Bank branch just down the street. from his uh pizza place few miles up the. road MH and he looked a lot different. than he did when he left the the pizza. parlor about 28 minutes. earlier yeah so first of all he was he. was walking with a cane kind of a funny. looking cane mhm uh and then under his. t-shirt he had clearly and if you've.

seen the footage and the photos you can. see uh Warning by the way for video it's. uh yeah for the future it's quite. graphic it's out there but it is out. there uh but he had clearly some large. boxy looking thing it looked like he was. wearing a shoe box around his neck with. a t-shirt pulled over it kind of but in. the teller at the banks defense could. have been an artificial torso and she.

probably didn't want to draw attention. to it she yes she was being very kind. right so one thing I want to point out. too there's already discrepancy what. we're like a minute into the story and. there's already a discrepancy that shirt. he was wearing over that boxy thing. underneath his shirt said guess on it. and I've seen that it was written. somehow like in spray paint or marker or. that it was an actual guest jeans. T-shirt oh really so either an. officially licensed or not Li but.

whatever brand shirt MH or a homemade. janky spray painted version yeah and if. you look the pictures don't really show. one way or another it looks more like. it's homemade and I looked up to see if. there was a guest shirt that it you know. if I could find the actual guest shirt. it wasn't couldn't so I think it it may. have been homemade okay regardless he's. wearing this shirt that says guess on. and he walks up to the teller and he. hands the teller a note and the note. says I have a.

get everybody who has access codes to. the safe together and put. $250,000 into a bag and bring it to me I. think he said you have 15 minutes to do. this yeah which kind of a long time if. you're bank robber it is it's like. almost like luxurious amount of time. would have said like 60. seconds yeah or this should have. happened yesterday Chop Chop right so he. um he stands back and waits apparently. grabs a Dum Dum lollipop out of the.

little basket while he's waiting because. why not and the teller says sir um we. don't have like we can't get into the. safe that's just not how things work I'm. sorry but as a consolation price I'm. going to put. $872 into a bag for you right here and. send you on your way okay yeah and and. importantly we did not mention he lifted. his shirt up and showed this teller. right uh this this bomb this what's. called a collar bomb strapped around his. neck right so he walks out of the bank a.

free man and the next time that he's. seen in public is about 15 minutes later. and he's seen in public by some. Pennsylvania state troopers who are on. the lookout for this guy and he's still. wearing that shirt he's still got the. big bulge and he's standing around his. geom Metro parked in a parking lot that. is actually shared with that PNC Bank. and a McDonald's and he's in a parking. lot right there so basically he left the.

bank robbery and went about 100 to 200. ft away from it and that's where he was. found like a full 15 minutes later yeah. so these these these coas these Troopers. come over and uh he says hey guys this. is a bomb around my neck a group of uh. group of black men chain this bomb. around my neck at gunpoint forc me to. Rob this bank for them I'm not going to. I'm not lying here this thing is going.

to go off so the cops call the bomb. squad and they do uh I saw you know his. the family of Wells is still angry about. the fact that she says they did nothing. to save them but I would be too by the. way we should shout out uh Wired. Magazine oh yes we really really should. a lot of this came from a great heavily. researched Story by Rich Shapiro from. about eight years ago called the. incredible true story of the collar bomb. Heist MH uh so thank you Rich for your.

work but the dude's on the ground he S I. mean if you I kind of remember this. happening because when I went and looked. at the still images I was like wait a. minute I've I've seen this footage yeah. and it's this guy sitting on the. ground uh with this thing around his. neck kind of just waiting Seated on the. pavement for about 25 minutes he says. very uh interestingly like did you call. my boss at the pizza place mhm uh and. then all of a sudden this bomb starts.

beeping fast which is never a good sign. and when I was reading the story I. thought well that's just a a ruse but no. this thing detonated and killed him it. blasted a hole in his chest um it did. not blow his head off like the internet. says no uh but it it was a violent awful. death yeah it was and it it was pretty. quick and then three minutes after the. bomb goes off the bomb squad showed up. so they so he's dead this K this guy.

Brian Wells is dead and the whole time. he was protesting he's like you know. this is I I was forced to rob the bank. are you guys going to get this off of me. or what um yeah he said something like. did you call my boss because apparently. he was a very um loyal employee he'd. been working at mam M for how long like. 10 years or something like that I don't. know for years and years and he'd only. called in late once not even sick late. once when his cat died said Rich Shapiro.

in that wired article so um it seemed. like he actually was telling the truth. that he had been abducted and forced to. rob the bank and then had been a a. victim I think the bomb going off really. kind of put an exclamation point on his. story that he he was not a willing. participant in this right yeah so the. cops obviously check out that geom Metro. uh and it's sweet sweet styling and they. they saw his Cane in there it turns out. the reason why the cane was funny.

looking is because it was also a gun and. it really looks a lot like a gun yeah. when you when you look at it um the bomb. was clearly homemade uh had a couple of. different parts to it it was a this this. banded metal collar that he wore around. his neck it was like lock to his neck. had four key holes and then a. combination lock yeah it was really. locked to his neck and then an iron box. with two pipe. bombs loaded up ready to go. and then interestingly and this will.

figure uh put a pin in this one because. this will figure in the uh in the case. later uh it had two kitchen timers in. there in addition to an an electronic. countdown timer yeah which was I guess. the thing that started beeping faster. and faster yeah and then some decoy. wires you always got to have those if. you're if you're making a bomb sure but. I mean like that's pretty smart so. there's decoy wires there were. apparently also stickers that said like. don't do it or you know skull and. crossbone or rat poison whatever skin.

and sweet yeah and uh oh that's a good. nin to-5 reference man I just saw that. the other night um so it was a it was a. homemade bomb but it was by all accounts. a well-made bomb too and it worked which. I think is one of the the big um the big. questions about any homemade bomb is. whether it will actually work or not and. this one worked with deadly effect. that's right so the the most important. thing they found in this car though um.

were some letters some handwritten notes. uh addressed to bomb hostage uh so one. of them said I mean these were. instructions basically on what this guy. should do which further kind of cemented. like hey this guy's probably telling the. truth it said go rob this Bank of 250. Grand and then very strangely outlined. this little uh scavenger hunt basically. to where eventually you will land upon. the keys to in combination to get you.

out of this thing by going all over town. and finding these various hidden notes. and at the last note you will you will. be able to Free Yourself yeah the last. one will give you the keys and the. combination but you better hurry because. you have a limited amount of time if you. stop and think you're going to waste. time and you're going to die uh we can. detonate this remotely and we're going. to be following you it was written. pretty crazily have you read any of the. note oh yeah yeah so like there it's. it's got a lot of um like just like a.

lot of jump jump Cuts or jump scares in. it you know like you'll it's like go do. this and and then go do that after that. and then don't try anything funny we're. going to blow you up you know it has. those every once in a while and there's. drawings in there of where he could find. like like the notes and all that so that. he made it as far as the first note. which was McDonald's it was in that that. McDonald's that shared a parking lot. with the PNC Bank that was where the. first note was so he he made it to that. that McDonald's grabbed that note and.

that note was directing him uh out of. town um to another note and he didn't. make it that far but when the cops. caught up with him yeah so the scavenger. hunt was he like you said he he had. gotten just to the one place so the cops. then say well here's what we're going to. do we're going to complete the scavenger. hunt they they were like whoa you just. blew my mind that's some great policing. should we take a break sure all right. scavenger hunt has just started by the.

kaas we'll be right. [Music]. back all right we're back so the.

scavenger Hunt's still on Chuck and they. make it the cops follow from the the. note that Brian Wells had to the next. clue and they found the the next note. and that directed them to another place. even further out of town to where they. found the jar where the note was. supposed to be but the note was gone. yeah and they don't really know what. that means they didn't know if it was. just something to keep them busy. preoccupied they didn't know if the the. person who was designing the scavenger.

hunt got interrupted or knew that the. cops were around and they were doing it. sort of in real time but it any rate the. unfortunately the scavenger hunt just. kind of fizzled out because that was. kind of a cool part of the story yeah it. really was it it was like it's one of. the things that makes this just an. incredibly bizarre crime yeah why the. scavenger hunt it's going to keep coming. up again and again right yes so when the. TR when the scavenger hunt ran out the. trail actually went cold the case. started to get cold P for a few months.

the cops sniffed around Brian Wes tried. to figure out you know what why him what. happened with him and they went back to. his place of employment and they uh they. kind of checked out the kind of person. he was right yeah and they very smartly. said well wait a minute why don't we why. don't we check out what that last. delivery was supposed to be there may be. a clue there and it was an interesting. place it was at the it was you could. only get there by dirt road and it was. right next to a TV transmission tower in.

a kind of a remote wooded area right and. cops comb the area found shoe prints uh. that matched Wells they found those. classic iconic geom Metro tire tracks. that everyone recognizes by by sight but. there really weren't any more clues as. far as the cops were concerned at that. location so where the cops had found a. dead end a reporter uh in photographer. for the Eerie Times News went and did a.

little investigating of his own and saw. this house you know next door where the. pizza was delivered and said well you. know I'm just going to go knock on the. door this guy answers the door um and. his name was Bill rosin and he actually. said you know you can look around if you. want he's 59 years old he a handyman. wasn't married had lived there his whole. life and apparently he seemed really. smart um had a very uh articulate way of. speaking and apparently was fluent in. several different languages and the.

journalist kind of did a little poking. around and didn't really see much and. took off but he made contact with Bill. Rothstein he's the first person that. kind of was went a Knockin right for. nothing came of it and the cops as far. as I know never went and and met with. Bill Rothstein even though his house was. right next to the the delivery place. where Wells was supposedly accosted. right. yeah and then a few like I said the case. has gone cold by this time if a couple.

months have gone by the whole the whole. um that mean you've got this crime this. very public Caper that's captured the. Public's attention a guy died by by. being blown up while the while under. police supervision and the there's no. leads there's no nothing and then. finally uh several weeks a few months I. think after the the call um there's a. 911 call from Bill Roth scene and he.

tells the police that in his freezer uh. he has one of those serial killer chest. freezers there's actually a body a man's. body and that it was um it it is not. someone he murdered but he helped cover. up the murder of this man who is the. boyfriend of Bill rothstein's. ex-girlfriend from way way back in the. day and now the chain of events has been. set off right and if you're like me and.

you start hearing wife of the. ex-girlfriend's Dad's cousin your brain. gets a little jumbled MH so just very. plainly he used to date this woman this. woman called him up and said hey I've. murdered my current boyfriend or was it. her husband uh it was her boyfriend yeah. and she said and I need your help here. um I blasted him with a with a shotgun. and I know we dated oh 20 years ago but. will will you come help me out because.

they were still in contact I guess they. they remained friends I guess so and. this racked Bill rosin apparently he he. thought about committing suicide. apparently there was even a note they. found a suicide note but he maintained. like you said with the cops that he. didn't have anything to do with anything. but most of the cleanup the cleanup. getting rid of the murder weapon and. then holding onto the body yeah but what. which the reason he held on the body he. supposed to get apparently supposed to. grind this body up mhm and that's where. he finally stopped short and was like.

Jesus I can't do this and he said he. told the cops that the reason he called. them finally is because since he wasn't. going through with grinding up the body. he was worried what this woman margorie. deal Armstrong was going to do to him. he's like I dated this lady right she's. not a nice person and so when he says. margerie deal Armstrong to the Eerie. cops just alarm Bells start going off. because by this time already margorie. deal Armstrong was a local Legend as far. as far as criminals are concerned she.

was this very very bright woman um. who I think at the age of 35 back in the. 80s had been indicted for killing one of. her boyfriends shot him six times she. played that she had killed him in. self-defense that he was an abuser of. her and she was actually acquitted a few. years after that she was married to a. guy named Armstrong and he showed up at. the hospital with a head trauma and. actually died of a cerebral hemor.

hemorrhage but there was no coroners. inquest or anything like that and so it. just was something suspicious you know. the second second significant other of. of this woman to die under suspicious or. violent circumstances so so when Bill. Rothstein said I'm worried about what. margorie deal armstron is going to do to. me the cops seem to have taken it very. seriously well extremely seriously cuz. the next day they arrested her that's. pretty serious for murder. uh and about a year and a half later a.

little short of that she plad guilty uh. but mentally ill she was sentenced to 7. to. 20. um and then Rothstein on for his part. eventually died of cancer in 2004 right. and so you said that he he had. considered killing himself and even. wrote a suicide note right yeah there's. something very very odd on Bill. rothstein's suicide note and again he. didn't kill himself he died of cancer he. was able to actually show the cops where.

a suicide note was and they read it and. the first line of it from what I. understand was this has nothing to do. with the collar bomb Heist or the Brian. Wells murder yeah that that's a uh it's. a weird thing to put if you had nothing. to do with that you know right that's. just a very odd thing to do it's like. when the cops come in and you go there's. nothing under the bed don't don't. there's no reason to look there right. they said we just want to make sure your. fire alarm is working yeah exactly part.

of a community service cool but the. bed's fine right so that is a very weird. thing to say and that definitely piqu. the interest of the cops but like you. said the cops convicted or the the state. convicted Marjorie deal Armstrong of the. murder of um James Rhoden or Jim Rhoden. right yeah she's already in prison and. when she's in. prison somehow this is what I'm on clear. on somehow it comes up or she starts.

talking or something like that that Jim. roden's death very much had to do with. the wells case with Brian Wells murder. this collar bomb Heist and that she. knows a lot about it and if they'll. transfer her to a minimum security. prison close to Erie she'll she'll start. talking yeah she asked for the old. Hannibal Lector treatment so is that how. it came up like she approached them cuz. I'm I'm unclear on that I mean I think.

so this is in the wir article it said. that. um that there was a phone call from a. state cop who had just met with her. about something unrelated like a. different homicide and uh she just and. and it kind of makes sense though now. actually when we as we will learn um she. talked a lot yeah a lot so it doesn't. surprise me that another cop was just. meeting with her about something related. she's like by the way that whole collar.

bomb thing I got all the the skinny on. that right so there's a couple of things. going on here by then um by the time she. calls the cops the cops have already. spoken apparently with several uh. informants that have shared sales with. her or spent time with her in jail. already um who are saying like uh this. lady is the master mind of that collar. bomb Heist that's making you guys look. bad yeah and eventually you know when. they met with about this she she.

admitted that she was involved but um. well she didn't admit she was involved. in the plot but she said I knew about it. I gave him I gave him those two kitchen. timers and I was really close by when I. happened MH uh and by the way the guy. who blew up with the collar bomb Mr. Wells he was actually in on it too and. Rost headed the whole thing up right but. but for her deal Armstrong she said but. I had had nothing to do with it even.

though I had all these other little. things to do with it I never met Brian. Wells I didn't know Brian Wells I had. nothing to do with his death aside from. supplying the kitchen timers um and. knowing all about it right exactly um so. now it's just getting weird right. because there's the Jim Rhoden murder. who she says that she killed because he. was abusing her who Rothstein said she. killed over a dispute with money MH but. is now she's saying is tied to the. case and which she knows a lot about but.

really nothing about and had nothing to. do with so the cops are like well let's. just get this lady to talk all we can. and one of the things they got out of. her was her she agreed to a tour around. eie showing them all these places where. she had been and these were all places. that were related to the crime like I. believe she said she'd been at the pizza. delivery site uh I think she said she'd. been within a mile of the um of the bank.

when it was robbed like all of this. stuff she's just like they just keep. giving her this rope and she's just. wrapping it around her neck again and. again and again and then finally Chuck. at the end of this car ride after she's. been interviewing with the cops multiple. times giving them tons of info what does. she say she asked for immunity at this. point after she had basically completely. incriminated herself mhm uh and previous. to all this a lot more happened there.

were four different informants who had. come forward mhm and said that this. lady's been talking about this for a. while she very much had everything to do. with it and then a couple of months. after she had started talking to the. feds another big break came this witness. came forward and said hey there's this. crack dealer named Kenny Barnes that is. a crack dealer's name Kenneth Barnes and. he was involved uh they used to go. fishing together Armstrong deal. Armstrong and Barnes and she sang like a.

canary to him basically and said here's. what she did she uh her brother-in-law. put him in touch with Barnes uh while he. was already in jail on unrelated Char uh. charges basically and so Barnes was. already in prison said hey I think I can. shorten my time so I'm going to try and. get a reduced sentence at least by. spilling the beans on Deal Armstrong. right and barnes's brother-in-law was. who turned him into the cops oh yeah so.

Barnes is like I'm already I'm in jail. for selling crack that's way different. from being you know very much involved. in this collar bomb Heist um so he said. okay I'll tell you guys everything you. want to know I'll Be Your Star witness. um just reduce my sentence in this for. my involvement in this and he started. talking uh when he started talking it. was at Marjorie deal. Armstrong's um uh trial which was a a.

pretty spectacular trial from all. accounts yeah and and before the trial. even he told his story was is that she. wanted me to kill her father he was. spending what would end up being her. inheritance she felt and so she wanted. him dead and so she was doing this. collar bomb Heist to raise money to pay. me to kill her dad which I mean like. that's just the biggest B pal I've ever. heard of yeah for real so okay we'll.

start margerie deal Armstrong's trial um. after we take a break how about that man. that sounds good okay. [Music].

[Music]. okay Chuck so before Marjorie deal. Armstrong goes to trial and remember. she's already in prison for the murder. of Jim Rhoden right shooting him in the. back with a 12 gauge shotgun yes um Bill. Rothstein is dead I want to call him a. Rothstein so Ace Rothstein so bad but. Bill Rothstein is dead he's he died of. lymphoma a couple years before and by. the time um margerie deal Armstrong is.

is brought to trial for her involvement. as The Mastermind of the collar bomb. plot they have to um they have to verify. that she's actually mentally competent. to St trial and that's kind of touchy. because remember when she uh she was. charged with killing her boyfriend back. in I think 1984 in 1986 yeah she was she. was deemed incompetent seven times. by psychiatrist before the judge finally.

said I'm I'm throwing all that out and. deciding that she is competent we're. going to go ahead with the trial yes. they also found like 400 PBS of butter. and 700 lb of cheese in her um in her. house when they were investigating that. particular murder and in in between 1984. and the time she was tried in the collar. bomb Heist she uh had been diagnosed. with bipolar disorder so there it was. actually kind of questionable whether. she was mentally competent to St trial.

um and right as they were about to start. the proceedings I think the Judge ruled. that she was competent to S trial um she. was diagnosed with cancer herself that's. right so they waited for the cancer. diagnosis or. prognosis and the cancer doctor came. back and said 3 to seven years and the. prosecutor said gy up that's right so. previous to this she she had had gotten. the indictment but in that indictment.

it's very important that she was not I. mean granted she was the only one. technically indicted but they in the. indictment it said that Rothstein was. definitely a conspirator M and Wells the. man who was who was the victim. supposedly he was definitely involved in. this thing from the beginning yeah. you're absolutely right as a very. important thing that that showed up in. this indictment yeah they said he agreed. to Rob this Bank he thought it was a. fake bomb and uh he was told this. scavenger hunt was a ruse to fool the.

cops and if and when he did get caught. he could say you know I was just. following orders basically what he did. right and so Brian wells's family did. not like this at all apparently during. the the the um the press conference. where the da of Erie County is. announcing this you know this case case. is closed this is the indictment that. they have um the wells some of Brian. Wells sisters were shouting liar at her. uh they did not take the idea that their. brother was an accomplice in this at all.

um very well yeah I mean there was a lot. of uh there was a lot of back and forth. about whether Wells was in on the be the. thing from the beginning yeah or whether. or not he was in from the beginning and. then at one point wanted out and was. forced to do this or whether he was. forced from the beginning everyone's. telling a different story uh and you. know basically the trial is where we. will learn you know if all that is true. what really happened so um margerie deal.

Armstrong's lawyer said you know to heck. with with caution let's put you on the. stand okay you've already incriminated. yourself multiple times why not do it in. open court too and um she apparently was. quite a uh she put on quite a. performance on the on the stand over. like two days I think five and a half. hours of testimony um she yelled she. cried she berated the prosecutor and her.

own lawyer uh she when she did mention. Brian Wells she said I've never met the. guy I learned of his death when. everybody else did on the the TV news. and she she stuck with her story though. that she had nothing to do with this she. knew a little bit about it she knew the. co the the conspirators the real. Mastermind was Bill Rothstein and uh it. wasn't her that's what she maintained. though throughout the trial and even. afterward that's right but before she.

took the stand a few days earlier is. when they trotted out Ken Barnes and he. took the stand and he said he had you. know by the time she took the stand he. had given a different account of the. story uh than she would later do so he. got up there and said she was behind all. this she was The Mastermind rosin was. involved she just recruited him. basically she recruited well. because Wells needed money and here's.

where the prostitutes come into play. apparently Wells had a relationship with. a prostitute who was also a crack addict. so he would buy crack to give her um. presumably as trade for sex he ended up. falling into debt with these crack. dealers and needed money and so it's. basically the plot of Mulan. [Laughter]. rou uh and he contends um Barnes did. that that. up until the day of the crime Wells was.

uh thought this whole thing was fake. realized that it was a double cross it. was a real bomb and he tried to run away. and was tackled and they put a gun to. his head and locked him into this device. so imagine this Chuck imagine being. Brian Wells and you're agreeing to to. put on what you are presuming is a fake. collar bomb to go carry out a real bank. robbery because you need money because. you're indebted to crack dealers because. you borrowed from crack from them to.

give to your girlfriend who's a. prostitute who you have to give crack to. to be with and then you find out on the. day of that this is a real bomb and. they're putting it on you whether you. like it or not what a horrible what a. horrible turn of events for this poor. guy yeah I mean that's just so sad no. matter how you slice it and then if you. take his family's uh if you take his. family's opinion that he was 100%. innocent that he really was um.

delivering pizzas and was accosted and. and had nothing to do with any of this. which I take with a pretty big grain of. salt I mean that's just as bad but it's. bad either way whether he was an. accomplice at one point or not it's it's. very it's super sad there's a very sad. thread that's running through the story. in the form of Brian Wells you know well. yeah and on the final day of her trial. at the very very end of her taking the. stand is when she finally said that she. didn't knew him never met him mhm and.

the first time she had ever laid eyes on. him was on the news that day right. basically he and margorie deal Armstrong. are fishing right they're fishing. buddies she he's somebody that she would. turn to and she's finding out that her. father is blowing through her. inheritance and she wants to put a stop. to it and so he she approaches barns to. get him to kill her father but to get. that. 250k to he says he will kill her father. for she's got to rob a bank so she turns.

to her friend uh Bill Rothstein to come. up with this collar bomb to put it on. this other person Brian Wells who's. going to carry this out and oh by the. way we're also going to come up with a. scavenger hunt to either throw the cops. off or to actually make Brian Welles. feel more comfortable give him some sort. of cover in case he is caught and that's. what we're going to go with go team and. margorie deal Armstrong said that's. preposterous that wasn't me Kenneth. Barnes said that's that's a exactly what. happened and then uh Bill Rothstein.

wasn't alive to to contradict any of it. that's right so she's sentenced right. she's convicted as The Mastermind of. this pot yeah the jury took about 11. hours and she was convicted of uh armed. armed bank robbery conspiracy and using. a destructive device in a crime of. violence that's a big one I'll bet I'll. bet that carries a hefty sentence with. it yeah and she would she would die in. prison just like her prognosis said uh. she didn't I think she lasted a few.

years no they gave her three to seven. years and she lasted seven yeah so she. finally passed away and you know that's. kind of the end of the story even though. there is a uh retired FBI. investigator named Jim fiser who said I. think they got this all wrong I think. that Rothstein was the guy the whole. time and he makes a decently compelling. case but it's you know everyone's dead. now yeah Fisher's gone a little bit down. the rabbit hole if you ask me yeah I.

mean it's it's kind of hard to tell with. literally everyone having died um but. for his money he thinks it was rosin. yeah and so there's probably not many. people who are familiar with the case. who would say that it wasn't Rothstein. who built the bomb but what Jim. Fischer's saying is like J Bill Roth was. behind everything and margorie deal. Armstrong murdering Jim Rhoden was just. like a gift that dropped in Bill.

rothstein's lap that he could use to. make all these puppets dance including. the cops and that the whole point of it. was to create this elaborate scheme this. elaborate crime that would puzzle people. for for for years and years to come. which it's it's doing that and that that. was the point and that Brian Wells was. going to die one way or another right CU. I think the FBI said they concluded the. whole scavenger hunt was a hoax and that. Brian Wells was never going to survive.

this didn't they yeah so so this is Jim. Fischer's position but like you said now. that everybody's dead really the only. question is you know just how how. complicit was um Brian Wells is the is. the last big question that's right and. then there's one other guy who seems to. have got off scott free named Floyd. Stockton did you look into him uh a. little bit so he's a guy who was there. he was he was there he supposedly handed.

Rothstein the bomb to put around Brian. Well's neck he was staying with. Rothstein as a buddy on his couch. fleeing a rape charge in Washington um. and somehow for some reason he got. immunity and was not indicted even. though he was very much involved in this. and he got off scottf free and Brian. Wells family is going nuts over the fact. that this guy's out there walking free. that he was he was a part of this this. Caper and he just he didn't see a second.

inside of a jail yeah it wouldn't. surprise me if there were more people. involved demon so what do you think do. you think Brian Wells was was complicit. and if so how much oh man I don't know I. mean it sounds like I kind of believe. the story that they were all in it. together and he he was probably double. crossed but this is just from reading. about this thing many many years later. do you think margerie deal arm strong. was The. Mastermind I don't know I don't know.

either maybe we'll never know but we. might but probably not you got anything. else I got nothing else all right well. if you want to know more about the colar. bomb case you can type that word in the. the search bar your favorite search. engine and it will likely bring up a. very great article on Wired from Rich. Shapiro read that start there it's great. and since I said Rich Shapiro it's time. for listener mail. uh I'm going to go with one on.

emoji and John Adams uh Hey guys enjoyed. the recent podcast about the history of. emojis and emoticons reminded me of a. discovery I made in the Diaries of John. Adams uh that makes a historical figure. who sometimes described as aloof seemed. completely Charming uh when the future. president was about 22 years old he made. an entry in his diary uh in 1756 saying. a cloudy morning about 10 and he drew a. little sunshine breakout a warm day he.

uses a little line drawing in the Sun. that I always call an 18th century Emoji. uh he liked the little creation so much. he reused it a month later in the same. diary a misty morning little sunshine. breakout about noon uh on the. Massachusetts Historical Society website. the text of his letters and Diaries is. Faithfully transcribed but in the cases. a in these cases a parenthetical note. tells readers that there are small. drawings of the Sun and advises them to. refer to the scans of the handwritten.

page uh where you can actually see this. um apparently he grew out of his habit. though CU his later Diaries do not use. the adorable little son keep up the. great work my wife and I host a local. History podcast for Boston it's tightly. scripted oh man he didn't tell me what. it was I would have totally shouted it. out what uh I know big big missed. opportunity there. Jake one of these days we'll be. confident enough to have an scripted. conversation like you guys too and that.

is from Jake scor okay so everybody just. look up Jake scor's Boston History. Podcast and it'll probably bring it up. right yeah probably so thanks a lot Jake. uh thanks for keeping up the good fight. up there that's pretty cool good story. too uh if you want to get in touch with. us like Jake did tell us about your. podcast that's great you can send us all. an email the stuff podcast. howstuffworks.com and as always join us. at our home on the web stuff you should. know.com. [Music].

stuff you should know is a production of. iHeart radio for more podcasts from. iHeart Radio visit the iHeart Radio app. Apple podcasts or wherever you listen to. your favorite shows. [Music].