Selects: Seven - No, Wait, Five - Mysteries of the Art World | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW

hey everybody it's me joshh and for this. week's select I've chosen our episode on. Art Mysteries it's a great one Chuck and. I are secretly jazzed by art history it. turns out and this episode is the best. of any we've done on the subject may. also be the only one at any rate it's a. good episode and I think you'll enjoy it. so. enjoy welcome to stuff you should know a. production of iHeart Radio.

hey and welcome to the podcast I'm Josh. Clark and there's Charles W Chuck briyan. over there and Jerry's here somewhere so. this is stuff you should know the art. World. Edition yeah you know what I just. realized we we record these in. twos and we just recorded the uh pogs. episode right and you didn't say welcome. to the POG cast.

I didn't did I what a missed opportunity. for a great dad joke that sounds like. something I would skip though even had I. I thought of it I don't know that I. would have pulled the trigger on that I. think or I could see you pulling the. trigger and then making fun of. yourself right but I would have just. been engaged in self-loathing for the. rest of the podcast well retroactively. I'm going to say I hope everyone enjoyed. the. podcast now let's talk about art. Mysteries I love this one man this is.

great this reminds me like of a stuff. you should know episode from years back. for some reason well it's cuz we don't. do these top lists. anymore part of it you know very. famously we used to have top 10 on our. old house Stuff Works website of which. usually there were maybe seven decent. entries so we never did I don't think we. ever did a full 10 on anything maybe. somebody could probably correct this but. this one actually came in at 7 they. didn't even try and I don't even know we.

may do like five of these we haven't. even figured it out yet we'll see we're. going to play it fast and loose I think. that's another reason why it reminds me. of an old stuff you should know episode. fast and loose like I was what yeah fast. and loose first you got the fast then. you got the loose but never Furious fast. and. loose no cuz who wants to be mad I don't. know they should have called that series. fast and loose Tokyo Drift that I think. I've heard it before that that series is. the um highest grossing movie franchise.

in the history of film like worldwide. yeah you know what's funny is at one. point we were this was years ago we were. talking with ludicrous about doing. something with the network MH and I uh. cuz he's he's a local guy here in. Atlanta and I that's right talked to our. boss and said what's he what's he doing. these days like I haven't heard any. music and he went he makes Fast and. Furious movies like that's his job now. yeah because he's just getting rich off. of making these movies I can't even.

imagine and plus also I mean they're. pretty it's pretty involved movie making. I would guess like I'm sure because. there's so many stars involved that you. know the shooting schedule for each one. isn't necessarily you know a year-long. Endeavor or anything like that and they. probably have it down to like a pretty. fast science by now but like I would. think that would eat up a pretty decent. amount of your time shooting one of. those films every few you know a couple. times a well I guess every few years I.

only saw one of those I think man I'm. slowly like degenerating into Bob newart. man have you noticed oh man good yeah I. you could degenerate into worse things. than that but I mean like I've really. I'm really hitting that new heart note. these days I've noticed that's a great. note I love it I've always wanted Bob. newart as my podcasting partner so well. you you've uh you've um there you go. you've got it all right number one on. the list you want to talk a little uh. kagio.

so carvaggio is my new favorite painter. oh yeah not just because he was a scummy. lowlife um swordsman murderer from the. murderer yeah. um he he was a gambler uh he would he. had weapons charges against him while he. was um alive he he was not a good guy by. any stretch of the imagination um very. troubled person is a really polite way. to put it but but if you look at his art.

like I had no idea I've seen like so. many works of his art and I never pieced. together that they were the same person. and then when I really started to read. some criticism of his work I'm like oh. my God this guy he's considered one of. the fathers of Modern Art and this guy. was painting at the beginning of the. 17th century the early. 1600s um and just like pogs he burned. hot and bright and and Fast and Furious. actually sadly oh that's right uh that.

wasn't even forced nice work Bob thanks. so Michelangelo maicii dagio uh was. Italian Baroque. painter um he at one point in 16006. killed a man Nam uh ruio tasani and said. I got to get out of here uh because I'm. in big trouble now and went to uh went. away from Rome and fled to Malta where. he had a pretty brief but um.

I guess notable stay he was only there. about six months and kind of hiding out. and quickly hooked up with the Knights. of. Malta and was briefly one of the Knights. of Malta and yeah like for a month yeah. and painted one of his most famous. paintings there uh the oil on. canvas 12 feet by 17 feet uh the. beheading of John the Baptist yeah it. was an altar piece for the order of St. John also known as the Knights of Malta.

um they were going to again put this. behind the altar in their Church on. Malta um and it was actually his little. entry fee they charged an entry fee. usually money to their initiates but. they they accepted yeah but they. accepted this alri this giant painting. of St John the Baptist being beheaded. and it was actually I mean as far as a. Caravaggio goes especially toward the. end of his life it's actually fairly. tame because there's not you know like.

Jets of blood spurting out it's a pool. of blood that's being shown um he he. painted some really violent stuff yeah. and and like you said that that kind of. um that he was a master of light and. Shadow it's called kir skuro um and and. he used it to really dramatic effect. including in that painting and in fact. one of the other paintings that you. might have seen of his Chuck um it's. called Judith beheading Hollow of faires. have you seen it I have.

so Judith the woman who's in that. painting the the woman who modeled for. that um for Judith that was the woman. that he killed ruio tomasoni. over right did you know that I did oh. you did okay well at any rate they. really they really in this house of. Works article they called it a petty. squabble and that that really doesn't. tell the story yeah another explanation. I saw was that it was over a tennis. wager um and this this is real tennis.

not lawn tennis and real tennis is kind. of like this. kooky um mix between squash and um. racket ball and tennis and it's all. indoors and there's like um horse sheds. basically involved that you can play off. the roofs of it's really interesting. stuff and he used to play that a lot too. but um so it was either over a wager or. it was over this woman um her name was. uh what was it.

Judith no Fel Fel I believe was the the. actual woman's name who modeled for. Judith so he ends up on Malta he becomes. a knight um and when he he becomes this. Knight he paints this Altra piece and he. signs his name in the pool of blood. which you're like well he's an artist. that seems like something an artist. would do not kajio this is actually the. first and only work of his that he ever. signed which a lot of people are like. okay wait a minute let's examine this. yeah and it kind of took a for it to be.

even very visible because it uh. underwent some Restorations over the. years and in the. 1950s they did a restoration where they. really could see the signature and what. it said uh I don't know about for the. first time but like super clearly at. least and it said f period. dot um f uh Mitchell Lang m i c h l a n. g and then you know of course everyone's.

like well what does this mean because. there is no F in his name uh it's not. like his initial is he saying you know. hey screw. Michelangelo myself screw me or I'm. screwed no no one really said that they. thought the F there a couple of. different theories thought it was Shand. for uh frater or which means brother uh. because he was one of the knights and. maybe he just meant like brother. Michelangelo or whatever uh and then. some other people said no maybe it means. stands for uh fet Fe c t which is Latin.

for did translating basically into uh I. did it and it spelled out in blood kind. of confessing to his. crime right so that's kind of like where. the mystery comes in was he confessing. to the crime of murdering ruio. tomasoni um from what I saw most I can't. say most but the the art historians and. critics that I saw basically said no he. almost certainly wasn't doing that. for one everybody knew that he did it.

he'd already been convicted in absentia. so it's not like he was confessing to it. although you can make the case that he. was confessing in the um Catholic sense. of the word you know what I mean right. like before God yeah exactly or de. Bears uh that that painting still hangs. at St John's co- cathedral in Malta too. okay yeah yeah well I mean it was the. altar piece like they like it was a big. deal that they got their hands on cuz he. was a celebrated painter at the time. already.

interpret he was as infer or. brother. mangelo uh about himself that's probably. the likelier version because he was at. the time seeking a pardon from the pope. yeah so he could return to Rome um and. by saying like I'm in this holy order. I'm basically like a a a Catholic holy. man now a a leader of the church because. the order of St John the Knights of. Malta have inducted me um he was.

basically shouting at loud and proud by. signing that one particular very holy. painting that he did but they said nice. try buddy uh and they kicked him out for. being a quote foul and rotten member end. quote so it didn't work a month after a. month dude he lasted a month in the. order of St John and it's not like they. ran around willy-nilly inducting people. like they basically um. had no idea that they had um uh what was.

Vic's last name in The Shield Vic tabac. no not Vic tack I don't know I didn't. watch The Shield oh you didn't it was. good I rewatched like the last seven. episodes the other night over a couple. of nights it still holds up actually but. anyway they didn't realize that they. they had inducted him the guy from the. shield and they figured it out pretty. quickly so he made his way back from. Malta to I believe Sicily on on his way. to Rome and I think actually got a.

pardon um and got into yet another. squabble another sword fight and and uh. sustained some wounds and between. infected wounds they think he got a. staff infection um lead poisoning he. apparently had gone rather mad from. being exposed to the paints that he. painted with and then um sun exposure. sun stroke on the beach in Tuscany. finally killed him and so it. goes yes it does but his paintings are. still just amazing I can look at them. all day you know yeah me too I like this.

I like his stuff I do too so that's uh. Caravaggio how about vermier well I. think we should take a break oh gosh and. uh we'll be back right after this. [Music].

all right we had a great Cliffhanger. with. vermier uh vermier the very famous Dutch. artist Johannes. vermier uh had a very famous painting a. lot of very famous paintings but one in. particular uh that has had a bunch of. names over the years uh in fact it did. not get the name Girl With a Pearl. Earring until the 20th century uh it was. called everything from girl with a. turban uh to girl with an earring had.

lots of different names because it was. not officially titled by vermier nor. dated even though they think it was. around. 1665 yeah he was just like this this. dude who lived in Del in the Netherlands. and never left his hometown and had a a. wife and 15 kids and 15 yeah 15 kids um. and just kind of painted and he made a. probably a comparatively small number of. work I think around 36 are attributed to.

him and there's a theory that um as many. as a fifth of those were done by his. oldest daughter Maria um but he's kind. of like this enigma at the time not just. personally but also the stuff he was. painting um there was a a huge movement. among the Dutch painters at the time. that they would uh paint like um these. you know horrific um hellscapes or there. was a lot of like obvious narrative and.

symbolism just all over the paintings. there was just a lot going on vermier. went a different way where he would. almost peek in on very normal daily life. um and capture like these these really. um just kind of boring or otherwise. mundane moments um but he did it in a. way that that this guy was like the the. the master of light he makes he makes. Thomas concade look like puke as far as. like you know light Master E goes so.

girl with a Pearl Earring uh everyone. has seen it and like I said it's very. famous it's of a young girl uh looks to. be sort of like mid- teenage years. looking over her shoulder uh she's. wearing a dress she's wearing that. turban uh very prominent earrings large. pearl earrings and Pearls factored into. quite a few of his works over the years. and it's one of those paintings where. the eyes follow you supposedly which uh. we've talked about in one of our short. stuff episodes I'm Mona Lisa uh I think.

so yeah it's you know the effect of of. the eyes following which doesn't happen. in all paintings with eyes oh no the. Mona Lisa's eyes actually don't follow. you I think that was the big reveal of. that one was it yeah all right so he. paints his painting and then of course. the mystery of this one is who is this. person uh there's been speculation that. it might be a. mistress uh a lot of people think it was. his daughter Maria who would have been. about 15 or 16 and like you said who um.

some people believe painted about a. fifth of The Works attributed to him. because about a fifth of his collected. works aren't I mean this sounds mean to. say but they aren't as they aren't up to. Snuff compared to his other works so. they sort of stand out from the rest so. they think that they may have been. Maria's good painting still yeah they're. still a lot better than anything I could. do yeah it's not like they were stick. figures you know out of nowhere they're. like this verir seems off uh but. you know if you've there was a 1999.

novel from Tracy Chevalier uh the girl. with the Pearl Earring and then the 2000. film adaptation starring Scarlett. Johansson who was perfectly cast she. looks you know quite a bit like The Girl. With a Pearl Earring but this was. historical fiction if you've seen that. movie and you're like no she was the. family's maid's assistant and love. interest to vermier that was just I. don't even think that was based on. anything it's just historical fiction. yes um from what I've seen the. art critics and historians basically.

tend to think that there there was no. person that this was modeled on there it. wasn't even necessarily his daughter and. in fact it was um kind of a a a trend at. the time a painting called a Tron which. was an imaginary figure a person who. didn't actually exist and the point was. to kind of show off things like costumes. and jewelry which is um ostensibly the. point of that paint but the thing is the.

vermier um the face that he did and the. the the where the place that he put her. like we were talking about how she gets. compared to Mona Lisa she's called the. Mona Lisa of the north Mona Lisa is like. sitting back in the painting The Girl. with the Pearl Earring is like right in. the foreground like right there's very. little between you and her and she's. turned around and her mouth's open which. apparently was very unusual for painting. Dutch painting at at the time um and it. looks like she's going going to say. something I guess that that is what.

entrances people with this this this. image that you know what's she going to. say what did he capture her about to say. you know it looks like she's turning. around like oh and you know this other. thing I hadn't told you maybe she was an. improv uh comedian and she was yes. anding yes you never know but this is a. mystery that'll never be solved which. sometimes I like those kind of mysteries. when it comes to stuff like this yeah. and I I saw that argued as well it was. like you know if we knew who she was it.

would just it would so we would lose a. lot of the interest in it and we would. have found out by now I think yes um. yeah and you're right we probably won't. ever know but because of this so like it. wasn't like very well um thought of or. nobody really thought much of it until. 1995 the National Gallery used it as the. poster for their big exhibit um but. since then a lot of people have really. kind of examined it and I hadn't noticed. this before but I saw it pointed out. choke if you look at the earring first. of all it's improbably large is how I.

saw it described like the the ear. couldn't physically hold up a pearl that. size but then secondly um it's really. basically made with two brush Strokes. both of them are reflecting light one is. um from the light source and then the. lower one is reflecting the light off of. the collar and it's pretty amazing that. you know we talk about this the girl. with the Pearl Earring this Pearl itself. is a is like a kind of a cultural icon. too and it's basically just two brush.

Strokes which is kind of goes to show. how great verir was amazing have you. ever seen Tim's vermier the documentary. I have not oh Chuck you got to see it. it's directed by teller from pen and. Teller which makes you think like how. did he direct if he doesn't talk you. know but he somehow did I think he talks. in private it's about what that's just a. bit and it's about um it's about a guy. who basically figured out that vermier.

somehow Pro projected images that he. built in real life onto a canvas and. then painted him that way and he. actually replicates a verir like. perfectly um it's really just one of the. better documentaries you'll ever see. very cool yeah so what do you think uh. and Rafael yeah so the mystery here and. this is one of our this actually has a. Simpsons crossover as well which is kind. of fun because uh Raphael painted a very.

famous painting called portrait of a. young. man and is largely described as one of. the most famous if not the most famous. pieces of art to go missing during the. plundering of great art uh in World War. II by Hitler and the. Gang uh and this is a crossover with the. Simpsons in that in the Fighting. hellfish episode MH when Grandpa Abe and. burns are stealing art this is one one. of the paintings portrait of a young man.

oh yeah it's one of the paintings that. they stole wow which shows that you know. Simpsons writers back then at least were. were definitely doing their work uh like. their research work because it's a nice. little Easter egg I think yeah it. totally is doesn't it even talk doesn't. it say something like someone's guilty. conscience or something I don't or am I. making that up I don't know I don't. remember I mean it's been a long time. since I've seen that one but it was a. one of the great episodes I think so the. portrait of a young man which they think. um was a rapael self-portrait and.

actually we have no idea what the colors. were because the only photographs we. have of it were in black and white but. he used to hang in the prince's zorski. um Museum in Poland uh along with two. other really important paintings um. Leonardo's lady with an irmine which is. a Scot sto I can't remember kind of a. weasel like animal and then Rembrandt's. landscape with the Good. Samaritan and um all three of those and. everything in the prince zorski museum.

were swiped by the Nazis when they came. to Poland and placed in the office of a. guy named Hans Frank who was the head of. the government uh for the Nazis in. Poland right yeah and you know they. almost they almost got these hidden away. successfully when Poland was being. invaded they knew that the art was going. to be plundered and so those three. paintings were actually rescued by The. Prince and hidden away uh in a in a. house in a place that I can't even. pronounce.

siaa not sure what that is but they were. ultimately found by the gestapo and. handed over to uh to Frank and Frank you. know they were supposed to go to Hitler. Hitler was going to open your Museum the. fura museum in Lind and Frank actually. kind of kept it for a little while hung. it in his residence and then eventually. um this thing went to Germany and then. Austria for a little while and then back. with Frank in 1945 which seems crazy. improbable that it would they would end.

up back with him but they did and um the. Allies came in to Poland I guess and. arrested Hans Frank in. 1945 and they were able to find the lady. with an irmine and the landscape with. the Good Samaritan but the portrait of. the young man was nowhere to be found. yeah they found a lot of other stuff too. sure they definitely did but the three. most important pieces in the princes um. zarari Museum. were those three and two were recovered.

one wasn't and it's very odd to think. that they were separated at any time or. that it's even odder to think that two. were kept together but one wasn't and so. because the portrait of the young man. was not recovered and it's a Raphael. who's you know one of the the great. Italian Renaissance painters um it's. considered maybe the most important. piece to go missing in World War II yeah. and they you know along with I think. over 800 other artifacts they got from.

him and they could not go on to question. him very long because he was executed. just a year later and since then there. have been a lot of rumors about where. this thing ended up who has it uh a lot. of speculation that maybe a private. collector in another country has it uh I. think in 2012 there was a false report. that it was supposedly in some bank. vault and they really don't know it's. just sort of one of those great. mysteries of of a disappeared painting. and. uh my my money is on a private collector.

probably has this thing stashed away but. you would also think that at some point. somebody would. talk you would think so um and you know. maybe they will eventually unless it's. really stashed well some people think it. was destroyed in that movie Monuments. Men right uh they show the Nazis. igniting it with a flamethrower in a. cave with a bunch of other art um and. there you know there's a whole camp that. says now this thing is it's gone forever. so they did something to it because the. Nazis were known not just plunder but. also destroy art as well which just one.

more reason to love them Nazis yeah uh. and I think this is oil on panel so it's. I don't think this could even be like. rolled up in a tube and put under your. bed or anything yeah I guess not no I. didn't realize it was on panel but that. makes sense but the the um State the. national museum in Kow bought the um. entire Princess zorski uh collection. from a private collector for a 100. million euros back in 2016 and that that. I know and that included the rights to. portrait of a young man in case it's.

ever found and for now it just uh they. have the the original frame hanging. empty in the um in the gallery oh yeah. that's it turns out that's a thing I. didn't know was a thing M FR in. galleries it's kind of sad yeah it's sad. it's very poignant says come home come. home we're leaving the light on for you. come home just like Motel 6 that's right. I'm Tom bro call we'll leave the line. out for you all right well that means. it's time for another break and we'll be.

back right after this to talk a little. bit about van. [Music]. gach so Chuck before I launch into a. Saka go away. uh type tiate onto you is that how you.

accurately pronounce his name I don't. know it was uh it was from uh the. filmmaker who dare not speak his name it. was from a Woody Allen movie um I think. it was in the most problematic movie. Manhattan when uh he's with Dian Keaton. and some obnoxious person says van or I. think it's Dian Keaton says van G and. he's you know he's in sense he's like. van G like how pretentious um so okay so. instead we're just going to go with with. Van go like everybody else right yeah.

sure okay and we can cut all that out if. we want to dony want to talk about Woody. Allen that's fine sure sure I hear you. so um van go is most uh he was just such. a sad tragic figure I feel for this guy. so much after learning more about him we. should do an entire podcast on him if. you ask me agreed but instead here we're. going to talk about his death because. there is a mystery surrounding his death. um he's very famous for having cut off. his ear he definitely did that and um I. always learned that he did it to impress.

a sex worker who he was enamored with. and he definitely did give her his ear. after he cut it off but that's not why. he cut it off he cut it off in a fit of. angst basically after having an argument. with his friend Paul Goan who he was. living with in in ARL in the south of. France and he said well I'm going to. make some sort of lemonade out of this. lemon I just gave myself and he took it. to uh his I guess hopeful girlfriend and.

I believe she was not that impressed. with it yeah so he suffered from. definitely depression there is. speculation that he had bipolar disorder. yeah I saw that too uh was um you know. just sort of longsuffering as an artist. he didn't he only sold one painting. before he died in 1890 at the age of. 37 and the The Story Goes is that he. shot himself in the chest with a. revolver. uh but it gets a little more complicated.

than that and in uh what year was the. book in 2011 there was a book written. called van go colon the life uh written. by Stephen I'm gonna say. mifa okay and Gregory white Smith and it. seems like they sort of launched this. idea or at least really put it in the. public Forefront that he was actually. killed almost certainly accidentally by. one of two boys younger gentleman that.

he was hanging out with that. day right so here's the thing like. there's a lot of circumstantial evidence. that supports that theory that he was. killed by two boys there's also it's. also circumstantially plausible that you. know van go died by Suicide as well but. even if you take his story and start. digging into it and the statements that. he made supposedly made apparently. everything we know about it comes from.

the owner of the Inn where he rented a. room's 13-year-old daughter at the time. was a witness to all this but even if. you take what he supposedly said it. still doesn't add up that number one he. shot himself in the chest and most. importantly that number two the gun that. he shot himself with could never be. found and instead um of actually you. know finishing the suicide completing. the suicide um he he couldn't find the.

gun after he shot himself in the chest. and just walked back to his room where. he died uh after suffering 20 more hours. but still to the end claiming that he. had done this himself even if you take. all that together it seems like no this. is's something really fishy going on. here yeah so this bullet uh misses all. of his internal organs very improbably. uh because it deflected off his rib cage. and he walked like you said to the. doctor uh who they didn't have a surgeon. on duty so they couldn't remove the.

bullet he lived a total of 30 hours. after the the shot and died of infection. uh got to talk with his brother you know. was was speaking to people so it's he. had every opportunity to say that these. two boys that I was hanging out with. that I was drinking and I say boys I. think they were maybe late te early 20s. no they were 16 oh okay I saw early 20s. in another thing oh yeah uh but you know. hanging out getting drunk with them. um one of these boys uh Renee.

sakan had a gun that apparently misfired. a lot and he liked playing with this. thing he liked to play Cowboy supposedly. he did and so it all just seems and and. even his statement he he said he didn't. say I shot myself he said do not accuse. anyone it was I who wanted to kill. myself yeah peculiar as well for sure. it's uh ambiguous I think as far as like.

cu the idea is that maybe he was. accidentally shot and then after he was. shot he was like this is kind of what I. wanted all along you know I've been. heading down this road toward suicide. and then now it's just done for me so. what what seems to have happened is um. that uh this gun possibly that it wasn't. actually murder or any kind of. premeditated murder more like a. manslaughter where Renee and his brother. um Gaston were messing around and um.

accidentally basically he he had seen a. Wild Bill Cody Wild West show the year. before and became obsessed with it so. that's what he was doing with the gun. and playing Cowboy um and that they had. accidentally shot him with this gun that. was kind of you know known to. misfire um so the the thing was that the. gun was never found Renee went back to. school like right after that which was. still in the middle of summer break from. what I I saw and um and the town seems.

to have circled the wagons around this. this these boys um because you know van. go was an outsider he was not very well. thought of he used to get really drunk. and argue with the locals in in the cafe. in the and everything like basically. every night and this these boys came. from like a a good well-to-do family so. for many years like that was just the. thing like like it just happened and. then slowly little by little it seemed. to have trickled out some support for. this idea like no like van go wasn't.

anywhere near this field he said that he. had shot himself in he was actually on. the road to the secreton house um and. then finally years later Renee secreton. said that you know he it probably was. his gun and that van go had somehow. gotten a hold of it it seems it seems. likely that that he was shot by them. whether accident or not yeah and these. two authors they put forth some other. circumstantial evidence like that the. the bullet went in at a weird angle uh.

that would not have been the angle if. you shot yourself in the. chest um that his more recent Works were. a little more upbeat and a little more. positive and that he was not in that. kind of mindset at the time and that he. had had recently even written uh his. thoughts about suicide that he thought. it was sinful and immoral and so they. sort of use all this as evidence that he. would not have done it himself and that. it was you know they believe it was an. accident uh his last words very sad were.

um the sadness will last forever he. spoke to his brother which uh that's. tough yeah it is I really do want to do. an episode on him and I think seatan. came out in the 50s even and denied it. right like finally once and for all he. did he did but he also he also said that. it probably was his gun and that somehow. van go had gotten it right but hey that. ain't my fault no but to also to to. backpedal and be like it probably was my. gun cuz that was another thing.

everybody's like where did Van go get a. gun van go didn't have a gun no and no. one would have given van go a gun you he. was the guy who got drunk every night. and had cut off his ear before um that. was like they no one in town would have. given him a gun so uh the fact that he. even admitted that it was his gun is. probably as close as Renee Catan ever. came to confessing publicly about it you. know yeah and and it makes sense what he. said was do not accuse anyone like. really seems like he's trying to cover. for these kids that he didn't want to.

get in trouble yeah because if he wanted. to die but was also he didn't want to. die by his own hand like this is kind of. a a lucky gift in a very strange way you. know yeah I'm going to that uh immersive. van go thing in uh in July where is that. it is at here in Atlanta it's at the. Pullman yards uh oh yeah over in. Kirkwood where they're uh shoot like. every movie Atlanta shoots there right. yeah uh so yeah it's supposed to be.

pretty cool it's very very neat sounds. neat I mean like to basically they just. make the stars come out whenever you. come in and I think so come sit in this. yellow chair I think that's the deal I. think you go in and you are surrounded. by projected art in different. ways from what I can get oh that's I got. to check that out man thanks for telling. me about it yeah it looks kind of cool. all right Chuck you want to finish out. talking about Hitler don't you mean. Hilter did you notice that there is Hil.

Hilter oh my gosh yes in the headline in. the headline did Hilter really do these. paintings do do these paintings who who. wrote. that I feel bad but like that's did. Hilter really do these. paintings that's great man oh yeah he. did them yeah Hilter did these. paintings so um we're talking not about. Hilter but about Hitler Adolf Hitler in. particular and as everybody knows uh.

Hitler was a frustrated artist yeah big. time you know people have made a lot of. hay about how possibly the world would. be a totally different place had he been. accepted into the uh Vienna Academy of. Arts um and he came well I don't want to. say he came close but he made two. different attempts in one year to be. accepted and they basically looked at. his stuff and said uh look man you you. have the skill of draftsman maybe you. should go into architecture like but.

you're not going to be an artist and he. said. architecture that was a direct quote but. this was a huge deal for him I think I. read in that in mine comp I haven't read. mine comp but I read an article by. somebody who read minec confin said that. he said it was like a bolt from the blue. and that um you know he was pursuing. this dream that his father would like. beat him out of like his father enrolled. him in a technic school he was like no. son of mine's going to be an artist he. would beat him up whenever he he brought.

he brought the idea up um and so finally. after his father died and then he nursed. his M ailing mother until she died he. got up the gumps and did like go and. enroll in art school and apparently he. being Hitler who I guess was had been. fairly um Bonkers his whole life just. knew that he was destined to become an. artist so the idea that he was rebuffed. not once but twice by this Vienna School. these people were like the the PE the.

Guardians of what is art and what is not. and they were telling him what you got. is not um that was a huge deal to him it. was a very big deal and it's funny it's. just now occurring to me that there was. sort of a similar thing with Manson's. rejection as a musician yeah by the. music industry um I really kind of. really thought of that parallel but uh. in. 1909 Hitler is traing around Vienna and. he is selling watercolors copied from.

postcards to tourists so if you've ever. traveled to Europe he he was one of. those guys that was down by the river uh. the River Bank Van yeah in a van selling. these uh and literally copied from. postcards so he did that for a little. while made a little bit of money CU you. know if you look at his art it's it's. way better than I could do it's you know. it's okay but like modern uh and it's. it's hard to tell if Modern Art critics. like so much goes into looking at a.

Hitler painting and reviewing it like. it's really hard to kind of separate. those things but yeah the general. thought is is that he. had nothing exceptional about him at all. it was he was the kind of artist that. would sell stuff down by the river to. tourists he was they were fine he was. capable but they were copycat paintings. he was copying things he had no point of. view uh he did this in 1913 as well in. Munich painting Munich cityscapes and. Landscapes and selling them to tourists.

and then in. 1914 got hauled in by the police uh of. all things for failing to register for. the. military yeah um and then they he he. went down and registered and then they. they gave him a um a physical exam and. he failed it they said it was too weak. to fire a weapon yeah so they arrested. him so that they could humiliate him. basically and and then when um World War. I came around he enlisted and they say. we need everybody we can get come on in.

and he fight yeah even. Hilter um Hilter did this Army thing. right um so when he rose to power in. Germany one of the things he did was he. had his Works collected and. destroyed um I'm not exactly sure what. the thinking was behind that I guess. because he knew it wasn't very good um. and he needed to focus on his political. career rather than his artistic career. uh or have everybody else focus on it.

but to no avail because I saw a. 1936 critic um or a Critic wrote in 1936. that his style was prosaic utterly. devoid of Rhythm color feeling or. spiritualism yeah and this was before he. or I'm sorry or spiritual imagination. and this was before he uh had really. become an obvious threat this is 1936 so. even back then um even with without. hindsight people thought his stuff. wasn't very good so yeah he had his.

stuff destroyed uh and that's he he it. was kind of a footnote for a very long. time that he was an artist and no one. really cared after his death yeah I mean. this and that was one of the major. reasons that he was such an art. plunderer during the war and stole as. much art as he could from real famous. artists and famous paintings uh because. he had all this backstory as a failed. artist and um it was interesting I did. see that like one of his major.

uh I mean CU he wasn't an utter failure. at first he had a backer early on I. think who was a Jewish man yeah Morgan. turn yeah which was really interesting. and there was I don't know man it's. there's a lot of speculation. about what that all meant to himh and. like people try and draw parallels to. like some of the paintings that's I mean. some of it feels like a stretch. definitely like the you know the the. cold uh the cold streets of Munich like.

were painted like clearly with a a. future cleansing in mind to make it look. like this and that's a stretch yeah some. of that stuff seems like a stretch but. you could definitely read into the. backstory at least I think with some. accuracy yeah and even if like you can't. necessarily sus out like the future from. from his paintings you can make a pretty. strong case that his artistic Ambitions. being utterly crushed yeah um. had some sort of driving force or impact.

on his psyche at the very least sure. like I that and his his later political. career and dictatorship did not exist in. a vacuum you I don't think you can. possibly make the case that they were. just unrelated in any way no I think any. sociopath you you can look at their past. and see the dots connected you know yeah. uh so like you said there was uh this. kind of just was the deal for a long. time and then in like anything else like. people wanting to get original Charles.

Manson music reels uh in the early late. '90s early 2000s there was a market for. for Hitler's work uh I think in 2009 a. British auction house uh someone paid. 150 grand for 15 early sketches and. watercolors uh including a self-portrait. and then in 2015 uh some unnamed. investors paid. $450,000 for a set of watercolors I. think there were 12 or 13 yeah that. survived yeah the problem is is because.

he didn't have a style of his own that. he was copying postcards that he didn't. have any formal training um and that he. was he lacked like a lot of creativity. or any creativity it seems like it's. really hard to say this is a Hitler and. this is a fake be and there's been. developed a really um a really enormous. Market of f. because anybody who's a passing.

good artist inors of Street Scapes and. Landscapes could drum up something and. be like this is a Hitler and it would be. really difficult to say yes it is or no. it's not yeah what kind of a garbage. human do you have to be to think I'll do. Hitler forgeries and try and sell them. to garbage humans that want to collect. them yeah and it's not like these are. even fetching like $10 million a piece. we're talking like you might get $10,000. for it for your your Hitler.

forgery unbelievable W but totally. believable so that's the mystery of the. Hitler paintings did he do this yeah did. he do those. paintings uh you got anything else I got. nothing else that was a good five uh I. think we have committed to doing a. robust episode on the uh Gardener Museum. Heist because that's a good one and that. was on this list and way underplayed for. sure so keep an ear out for that.

everybody uh and since I said keep an. ear out for that uh I think it's time. for listener. mail yeah I'm going to call this. um middle names because we had a little. discussion in our John mure episode. about how uh Emily and I and our friends. Justin Melissa one night we going by her. middle names is a joke and I had the. theory that you have no emotional. connection to your middle name if you. don't have a reaction when you hear it. said out loud and I just meant sort of.

the non the non-dominant name didn't. necessarily mean middle names because my. brother goes by his middle name uh Scott. is his middle name and some people do. that it's a thing and certainly Amy does. she said I was listening to the show and. at the end you were chatting about using. middle names and how you don't have an. emotional connection when you hear it I. have an interesting situation that. everyone everyone in my family uses. their middle names so I've always been. called Amy ever since I was born but my. first name is Helen uh this causes an.

interesting situation at airports and. doctor's appointments where they refer. to me as Helen and I always have to. remember that they're talking to me uh. big fan of the show kept me curious my. Curious Spirit satisfied over the last. three or four years and it's such a. comfort knowing there's always another. episode to listen to best wishes from. the UK they're always so nice and that. is from uh Amy Helen Amy thanks Helen. Amy um we'll just we'll just call her. Amy as his cust to Mary yeah cuz we say. Helen she's like. who wow I can't wait until they read my.

listener mail says. Amy uh if you want to be like Amy and. get in touch with us for whatever reason. you can send us an email to stuff. podcast iheartradio.com. [Music]. stuff you should know is a production of. iHeart radio for more podcasts my heart. radio visit the iHeart Radio app Apple. podcasts or wherever you listen to your. favorite show. [Music].