Selects: Robber Barons! | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW

hey everybody it's me Josh and for this. week's select I've chosen our July 2020. episode on robber barons it turns out. that today's billionaires and leaders of. Industry bear some resemblance to the. robber barons of the Gilded Age but. there are some big differences namely. today's billionaires are kind of. terrible at philanthropy and the robber. barons of the last century were far less. preoccupied with outer space hope you. enjoy this episode it's a pretty good. one.

welcome to stuff you should know a. production of iHeart. Radio hey and welcome to the podcast I'm. Josh Clark there's Charles W Chu. Chuckers Bryant over there Jerry was. just here doing the co setup and then. got out of the room really quick H her. breath for five straight minutes it's a. new record it really is new studio.

record sure uh and this is stuff you. should know this that's no David Blaine. record by the way no I mean that's her. studio record you should see her when. she's Pearl diving though right wouldn't. that be something if Jerry did have a. secret life Pearl. diving that would be amazing it would um. but we're not talking about Jerry Chuck. enough about her instead I propose that. we have a nice pleasant conversation. about robber. barons yeah this isn't an interesting.

topic because depending on who you ask. mhm uh the robber. barons were either the greatest thing to. ever happen to this country right or one. of the worst things to ever happen to. this country yeah yeah and at first from. what I could tell historians like. immediately after in the like few. decades after um the the Gilded Age. which we'll talk about where you know. the age the Rober Barons worked and. operated and lived in um.

really took it to be like their their. presence their existence was one of the. worst things ever but over time there's. kind of been a Reformation of them you. know kind of like a revisiting of them. that has tried to to to revive their. image or actually make their image. possibly better than it ever has been. yeah I mean it kind of I think a lot of. this has to probably depends on what you. feel about you know capitalism to this. extent where MH kind of doesn't matter. how you make your money if it's sort of.

underhanded and you sort of undercut. competitors and monopolize things that's. all just free trade man free capitalism. and that's how it works out and then. those guys ton gave a ton of money to. society before they died and so they. that's that's all uh that in justifies. the. means yeah I. actually that yeah that's the. conservative way to look at it um and I. ran across.

something I can't remember what it's. called but it's basically oh human. imperfection did you know that the idea. that humans are imperfect and there's. really no reason to try to make a. perfect Society because it will always. be imperfect and end in ruin um that. that is a a a Cornerstone a Hallmark of. conservativism did you know. that uh I didn't but I mean of course. you can't make a perfect Society sense.

well they're what so conservatives are. saying that in opposition to all of the. liberal um efforts to make a perfect. Society to have government regulation. that says no no no we should all have. clean water and we should do it at the. expense of making corporations clean up. the waste water before they they release. their waste into the the shared common. Water Resources things like that right. and that there's this idea that you can. you can mold Society into uh some.

perfect form that that's the opposite of. human imperfection that that's like what. liberals think and that that is that. right there is one of the main dividing. lines between conservative and liberal. I've been on the planet for almost 44. years now and I had no idea that it was. just that simple and it really kind of. is I think the word perfect is what's a. stumbling block for me because I don't. know a single liberal thinks that they. can make things perfect I think the goal. is to make things better yeah yeah yeah.

agreed I I don't know that it's it's a. great word either but I think that. that's you know I mean hey you're going. to argue with the Stanford encyclopedia. philosophy I'm not I'll bring it on man. I'll punch that thing right in the face. speaking of Stanford did you know that. Stanford University was uh ow fed yeah a. Rober Baron named Leland Stanford. actually yeah a lot of universities are. named after Rober Barons yeah there's a. lot of problems with some of the early. histories of of universities as we'll. find out in the the coming weeks so we.

should get into the Gilded Age we should. hop in the old Wayback machine because. that's the age that we're talking about. and when you hear Gilded Age it might. sound really great because I mean what's. better than a gilded I don't know. toilet uh Gilded Lily isn't that another. one that another thing people Guild I. don't know that's a pretty good band. name though Gilded Lily yeah like a '90s. power pop oh totally you nailed it and I.

said what about breakfast at. Tiffy uh but the Gilded Age is and Dave. ruse helped us put this together and he. points out it's not a term of endearment. uh when something is gilded that means. it's it's got a thin coating of gold but. underneath it's you know it could be a. gilded turd. sure I hate that word so much I love it. it's so great do you oh man I hate it I. mean I hate I love it and how awful it. is.

oh gotcha but I think it's so awful it. like comes out on the other side as just. plain old awful to me. okay so um yeah that's the that's the. idea of the the Gilded Age that it. looked great on the outside but on the. inside it wasn't so. great so this was the um second half of. the 19th century basically from pretty. much the end of the Civil War up until. the first decade of the 20th century. yeah and it was characterized by a huge.

massive shift in the American economy. where I I I saw somewhere that at some. point in the 1860s to some point in the. early 1880s in about 15 years the. American economy doubled doubled in size. in 15 years wow that's how massive it. was and that's how fast it happened and. what it was was a transition from an. agrarian society to an industrial. society and it happened virtually. overnight as far as history goes yeah.

and it was um because it happened so. quickly and because it was such growth I. think the government was like we're. going to stay out of this and kind of. just let you you dudes do what you're. going to do no. regulation uh you can be as competitive. as you want to be and you can satisfy EV. scratch every capitalist itch you want. and we're just going to let that happen. because we're also kind of getting rich. on the side right so so that kind of.

raises something that I saw is that the. idea that that it's kind of like a myth. of the L Fair government during this era. they were definitely L fair when it. comes to regulation and letting. corporatists run rough shot over labor. but they were anything but hands off. when it came to corporate welfare and. political entrepreneurship and helping. out the uh wealthy class at the expense. of the people in general so in one hand. on one hand they La Fair on the other.

they they were not yeah and what we're. talking about is uh stuff like um. snatching up resources where you could. hoarding them for yourself under like. building such a massive business that. you could drive out every other smaller. business uh drive them right out of. business by undercutting their prices uh. jobs were more scarce so you could have. people work harder for less and less. wages that kind of thing. exactly and what's crazy like it was a.

dog eat. dog economy yeah um it it was just nuts. how it happened and there was a lot of. like learning on the Fly and the. learning curve was extremely steep. because I mean this was just basically a. country of farmers who had been you know. looked down upon by Europe for a century. or more and they all of a sudden were. were captains of industry and the most. ruthless among them were the ones that.

Rose to the top because like you're. saying there was no rules there was no. regulation there weren't any standards. of business they were all figuring it. out as they were going along and they. went immediately to the worst impulses. that capitalism can can rais in a person. when you're in pursuit of as much. possible wealth as you can get and. there's plenty of it to be had and then. like you're saying not only did the. federal government not get involved they. weren't equipped to get involved because. at that point most of the government was. focused on local stuff and now all of a.

sudden as as the United States is truly. becoming a a continent wide Nation um. the federal government is kind of. lagging behind to catch up it wouldn't. really begin to catch up in the. Progressive Era and some would say that. the pendulum swung the exact opposite. way to the exact opposite extreme. direction that it had during the Gilded. Age yeah I mean let's let's talk about. the guilded age and uh the I guess just. you you it all to trains really and.

trains you owe to Steel so you got to go. back a little bit right uh steel was a. very big deal uh in that when they found. out uh Mr Henry besser in the 1850s. found out how to make steel like a lot. cheaper he got a new process going where. it was just like a making vast amounts. of Steel for a fraction of the cost and. speed right and all of a sudden you. could open up those local Rail lines to. stretch across the country and all these.

Regional um specialty businesses and. industries whether it was uh you know. Cincinnati was known for furniture and. obviously in places like Wyoming uh you. had coal and you had copper in Montana. and you had a lot of Timber in Oregon. you could get that stuff anywhere you. wanted to go and that changed everything. yeah not only could you get it to where. you wanted to go you could do it. exponentially cheaper than it used to be. Overland or say using canal.

and then also way faster too so now if. you were making like really great. armchairs in Cincinnati like you saying. like not only did you have the town. they're just known for that's their. mascot I believe of the baseball team. yeah the sitters um right um not only. did you have the town of Cincinnati and. maybe some other Regional parts of Ohio. as your Market you know had the entire. country to supply with chairs and that. that happened at a really great time. time the steel coming along and building.

the railroads because the United States. economic engine was kind of idling a. really high RPM for a little while. before this apparently the War of 1812. caused the United States to kind of stop. relying on Europe and turn inward and. become much more self-reliant than it. had been before so it started to exploit. more industry and resources rather than. rely on imports from Europe that was a. big one and then um the Civil War had. had brought a lot of factories online in.

the north that hadn't been there before. and so when the Civil War ended these. factories were all ready to go and with. the um abundance of plentiful steel the. the that that engine got put into gear. and it just kind of took off like a. rocket yeah when I was reading this and. I tried to find out but I couldn't. really get a firm hold I wondered if. back then when this started to happen. you know how people rail. against global trade and the. globalization I wonder if people railed. against nationalization of Commerce back.

then or if they all just thought it was. all great no no but one of the things I. read about that's actually a mark in. favor of the Gilded Age being a a. actually a good thing for America is. that people everyday people were super. involved in politics and the political. process and agitating for what they. wanted and so if there were people who. were definitely in favor of this kind of. just taking off like rocket knitting the.

country together that kind of stuff. nationalization then there was. definitely opposition parties to that. too who saw the problems with it but the. cool thing is is that everybody was. involved and everybody was like like. like they cared about the direction the. country was going rather than just. sitting back and being like well nothing. we can do about it I wonder though if it. was like if there were business like if. they were furniture makers in Cincinnati. going I don't want to sell my chairs out. there. that is not what they sound like in.

Cincinnati is that not a Cincinnati. accent no okay I might be thinking of. Maine yeah right but I wonder if I. wonder who is opposing it I I don't know. I I don't know I I haven't seen that one. some of the things that I saw where one. of the big fights was over currency and. whether it should remain on the gold. standard or whether it should be easy. money which of course the so the the. farmers wanted I think they wanted easy. money I can't remember who wanted to. stay on the gold standard and others.

wanted you know um basically to to leave. the gold standard and make money a lot. more um easy to come by Oh I thought you. talking about the Rodney Dangerfield. movie that was a easy easy money man. that is a todry movie it was wasn't it. yeah it good though yeah hey even the. worst danger field movie still pretty. great agreed and on that point real. quick I'm sorry um I know we don't like. to go off on tangents very often um but.

I have been watching Happy Days and and. Shirley lately man that is some comfort. food isn't it dude they are but not only. that it's not like junk food though. they're like well written well acted. well-directed TV shows like really it's. not at all like throw away or disposable. it doesn't rely on slick special effects. or anything like that it's just good. stuff man yeah I agree and you know what. since we're on this tangent. we should tell everyone that we're.

writing a book and it's coming out this. fall yeah it's called stuff you should. know an incomplete compendium of mostly. interesting things and you can pre-order. it now if you want a special Uh custom. poster yeah you pre-order it and you can. go and upload your receipt at stuff. usread. books.com and then there's like a little. thing that says like get your pre-order. gift and you upload a picture of your. receipt and they mail it to you and and. you will be very happy with it because. it's pretty awesome yeah and we want to. sell we do want to sell these books out.

there we want to sell these books all. over the world yes we're glad that the. railroad exists so we can move these. books around easily oh man you ain't. kidding ship these things to. Cincinnati right so where were we so we. were shipping things uh Regional. businesses were becoming National. businesses people were leaving the Farms. they were leaving small towns they were. going to the big city immigrants were. pouring in from Europe uh. African-American were going north.

because reconstruction didn't work out. so. well got abandoned yeah yeah have we. done one on reconstruction no no we. really need to though I mean The more. I've been I've been reading a lot about. that that period in history and yes we. need to definitely do one on that uh but. the point is there are a lot of people. flocking to work this uh what was called. The Second Industrial Revolution where. we saw over a period of about 40 years. Factory output went from 1.9 billion. into 13.

billion right I mean like this happened. like almost overnight it's it's. astounding how fast this happened um I. don't think it even happened this fast. in the first Industrial Revolution you. know the the one that that um started. over in Manchester like I think that. it's it this is nothing like this has. ever happened in the history of the. world as far as I know I believe it so. um oh sure I was just getting revved up. my own economic engines idling high.

right now well uh take your foot off the. gas okay and let's take a little break. and we'll talk a little bit about Mark. Twain and uh what these a few economic. stats of the day right after this. [Music]. [Applause]. [Music]. [Applause].

all right we're back Charles I'm feeling. much better now that my foot's off the. guest that was just good advice well we. we I mentioned Mark Twain and the only. reason we're going to talk about Mark. Twain for a moment is because in 1873 he. co-wrote a novel a satire called the. Gilded Age colon a tale of today where. it followed a poor country farmer who uh. is sort of I mean does he move to the.

city trying to get in on this Second. Industrial Revolution yeah totally it's. it's exactly that kind of migration that. you were talking about just a few. minutes ago and it didn't work out so. well right I don't know I've never read. the book but from from what I can tell. um no it didn't work out very well. because he is taken advantage of by all. manner of bad people like crooked. politicians and uh crooked. businessmen um and is basically run. through the ringer from what I can tell.

but for I've also seen that that wasn't. it wasn't exactly the best piece of. writing Mark Twain's ever come up with. but the thing is that he released this. in 1873 yeah and this is like at the. very beginning of of the Gilded Age so. he saw it pretty quickly what was going. on and what he saw was this. emergence from a relatively egalitarian. society of a a group of ultra.

mind-bogglingly wealthy people that just. rose up from the United States and. through you know cheating and business. Acumen and taking advantage of people. and overworking people and underpaying. people but also like having a lot of. vision and foresight all these things. coming together grab control of almost. all of the wealth that was being. produced by the average American and all. of the average Americans put together.

who had moved to these cities for the. promise of better wages Better Living. than the farm could offer some people. were exploiting that more than other. people and those people came to be known. as the robber barons and they were the. Lynch pin of why people think of the. guilded age as a rotten part of American. History yeah hear some stats for you uh. in 1890 the top one and this these. should all sound very familiar if you're. alive and breathing oxygen today right. but in 1890 the top 1% of the US owned.

51% of all. wealth yeah dude more than half of all. wealth yeah isn't that nuts it is nuts. but you're right it does sound very. familiar uh the top 12% owned. 86% of all wealth and the lower 44% of. the US population which was about half. the population owned. 1.2% uh and here's that's that's even. more nuts well I mean all these just top. one another I think here's the last one.

uh in 1897 the richest 4,000 families. that sounds like a lot of people but. that's less than 1% of the population. the richest 4,000 had as much wealth as. the other 11.6 million families. combined yeah how about that so that is. what you call economic inequality right. and I think the thing is is especially. over time but I I get the impression. during that age too like the people who. resent that liberals typically um tend.

to be painted with this brush that says. you're just jealous you've never made. that much money in your life you. probably never will and it sickens you. to see somebody else with that money. because you don't have it and it's that. second part that last part about because. you don't have it that I think misses. the mark and that even at the time. during the Gill Gilded Age today when. people look at inequality that kind of. stuff what they're what a lot of them. I'm sure there are people out there who. are just jealous and haters for that.

reason but a lot of them say no no like. the that that level that that amount of. disparity shouldn't exist where if if. there are people who are just genuinely. suffering who are just poor and aren't. able to make it with whatever living. they're making um if they exist then you. shouldn't have people who have that much. amount of money and that was a sentiment. in in the gilding gilded ages much too. it wasn't like they didn't realize this.

was going on at the time um the. sentiment was very much like it is today. except in the guilded age they did. things like form labor unions and strike. and um and just basically did something. about it they didn't take it laying down. which is actually criticism that's. levied or has been levied in the past. against people. today yeah and I think there's also a. notion that uh the more left leaning. people are anti-. success and that's that's not true.

either it's. um well that's all I'm going to say. about that that's just not. true okay it's just not true they're. they're not she said I they're not anti-. suuccess. [Music]. um and and I don't think that every. conservative thinks like yeah man like. it's all fair and you should be able to. do whatever you want to get ahead and. stomp on anyone's head that you want to. get there right I think these are just. broad brush um things that keep the.

country divided yeah absolutely I think. that uh yeah I think most both sides. misunderstand each other conservatives. and liberals misunderstand each other to. a debilitating degree these days agreed. so let's let's get off that and let's go. back to the original the OG robber. barons who were not these guys I'm. talking about the term Robber Baron. which didn't happen in the 19th century. us for the first time it happened. thousands of years ago in.

Europe I don't know about thousands of. years but a thousand pretty close to. pretty close to eth I'll I'll give you. that one so um apparently along the Ry. River if you wanted to move Goods up and. down northern Europe like that was your. your way to go but unfortunately for you. there were places where the Ry River. like really narrowed with high Cliffs. and you were easy prey for local. nobility who wanted to like set up toll. booths basically and said you need to.

give me some money if you want to keep. going and plying your goods along the. rine yeah and you had you couldn't just. Portage your steam ship no up a mountain. and over a mountain you had to pay the. piper plus they didn't exist at the time. what steam ships when when did those. come. around uh the early 19th century you you. have a much better just general World. timeline that lives in your brain than I. do well I understand history perfectly.

and without any um delusions or any of. my opinions informing my vision of. history as well I think that's what. you're known. for. sure uh wait wait were you joking oh no. okay good I just always get the time. periods confused so I rely on books and. research like a big dumb Dum so so do I. yeah I know but then you keep it in your. brain just floats out like like you ever.

see the cartoons with birds flying. around people's head when they get. knocked out Chuck I've seen every. cartoon that ever existed and I remember. each of them perfectly and without any. of my opinions coloring my view of them. those birds are always above my head I. don't have to get hit with an anvil or a. piano so the Ry Gorge was one of those. really narrow Straits and uh in 1250. Emperor Frederick III died the there was. no successor and basically that meant no.

regulation and believe it or not even. way back then a lack of Regulation meant. that people would take advantage of that. uh same as it is today and it's almost. like people are imperfect almost and so. these thieves would move into that Gorge. jam up those tolls maybe just steal. stuff if they wanted to as well and they. were named the robber bearon that's. where that term came from those people. yeah because they actually were like. low-level nobility and they already were. were well off but that didn't prevent.

them from you know trying to take. advantage of the merchant class who were. just trying to make their way and make a. living that's right and that became like. a really great description for some of. the the the most successful business. tycoons of the 19th century I think it. first popped up in an Atlantic article. in 1870 yeah where it didn't directly. say that it didn't say that these guys. are the new robber barons but it said. that the the old robber Barons of the Ry. Valley were actually probably more.

honest than the new aristocracy of. swindling millionaires so it that's a. big big time burn so even in 1870 people. were saying like this is wrong there's. something like really wrong here I mean. this is within just a few years of the. the Gilded Age really starting to take. off and people had already identified. that there were some major issues. developing yeah it's so weird to look at. this stuff and just how apt it applies. to what's going on today and we think I.

think some people think that these are. all new problems and new issues but it's. it's as old as time you know yeah so. weird it is a little weird to to it's it. is weird what's even weirder though is. like I I believe if we if we look back. if we zoom out far enough we see. Humanity kind of ever going upward even. though there's like Peaks and valleys in. the line and the line overall is kind of. up moves upward toward something great I.

think but toward Perfection I wasn't. maybe I wasn't uh I wasn't alive 10,000. years ago so who knows maybe that was. the The Pinnacle of human existence I. don't know yeah maybe so should can say. should we talk about a few of these. dudes yeah so um we I feel like we have. kind of set this up that the Robert. Barons were ruthless business tycoons. and we're going to start with one of the. first ones Commodore Cornelius. Vanderbilt who for my money was the OG.

Robber Baron yeah and commodore is a. nick name um that and as you will see he. later uh Vanderbilt University is named. for him and their mascot is the commodor. because of him and a Commodore is a. naval officer sort of above not quite an. admiral but above a captain I think they. command like a. fleet oh well that's actually pretty. appropriate because he did command a. fleet of ships originally sailboats.

originally a sailboat I think when he. was 14 and then um steamships to Ferry. people around um New York I thought. there were no steams there were by this. time and you know you know what's ironic. we were talking about steam ships and. when they were invented the guy who. invented steam Robert Folton remember we. did a whole episode on Steam technology. yeah he had a 30-year Monopoly uh in New. York to Ferry people using steam ships.

that's right and ironically Cornelius. Vanderbilt had to overcome that Monopoly. uh using Ingenuity and his own. resourcefulness and eventually was. successful in Breaking that Monopoly. just through good business tactics that. actually resulted in Far lower fairs for. everyday people and companies I think. just at his first try um by improving. the the size of the steam engine and. using cheap anthy coal he managed to.

drop the average Ferry price from like. $7 to $3 in his first try that's amazing. yeah so so I think that's really kind of. like instructive though man like think. about it you think of this guy as like a. a ruthless Robber Baron and in many many. ways he was as we'll see but he was able. to get to that position by by outwitting. and outsmarting other robber barons and. that was the climate at the time like. it's so easy to sit back from this time. and just be like just judge judge judge.

and it's actually kind of fun too it's a. great. Pastime but you you also have to. remember at the time um that was that. was the business climate that's just. what it was and if you weren't willing. to do that well then you were not going. to make it in in business which is fine. like maybe you'd say this is too. Cutthroat for me I'm just going to sell. out to these guys um and there's nothing. wrong with that but the ones who were. left standing are the ones that you know. history still remembers for better for. worse yeah and it's worth pointing out.

um and as we'll do with I think we're. going over four of these guys but uh. some had money born into it some started. out very poor and um Cornelius. Vanderbilt even though that sounds like. such a rich hoyy toyy name now uh he was. born very poor he was born in. 1794 uh in a farming family on uh Statin. Island and quit school when he was 11. and that's when he started working on. the boat docks and he he was literally a.

self-made man starting with that first. little fairy boat that you mentioned at. age. 14 um he was a big dude and he was very. Savvy uh but also very ruthless he and. this is something that you'll. see with a lot of these men was a a. competition and a Competitive Edge and. nature right that was sort of the. underlying thing with all of them I. think that uh I watched their woie blood.

recently for movie Crush and uh Daniel. Plan view was very much based on some of. these robber barons yeah and that he has. that great great classic line from that. movie when he goes I have a competition. in me I want no one else to. succeed and that just crystallizes that. character and I think a lot of these. guys it wasn't enough to just get rich. they wanted to devastate the competition. right so it makes you wonder like is.

that just a normal there's just at any. given time there's a you know a handful. or a multiplicity of people who are like. that it's just that these guys happen to. be living in a time where they had the. freedom and ability to exercise that to. their to their greatest ability or was. it that these guys. shaped the the business world because. they all happen to be alive at the same. time. I don't know man I wonder it's it's.

interesting though that it's that. competition and again with the plane. view not just a competition to succeed. but a comp competition to see that. others don't right so um did you talk. about the railroad yet I didn't catch it. no so you know he started off in the. steam uh steamboats but if you know uh. Vanderbilt you know he was a railroad. guy and if you look at the list of. robber barons I'd say easily like a. third of them were railroad Road. men yeah because there was so much money.

to be made from the railroads it was. just like printing your own money and. one of the reasons why was because. there's so much stuff being shipped over. the railroads that if you own the. railroad you got a cut of every single. industry because every single industry. basically had to use your form of. transportation that's why they all got. into it plus it was wide open like there. was so much open space and so much room. for expansion that it was a it was a. good time to get rich off of the.

railroad for sure so his first railroad. ride was at 39 years old he wasn't like. in his 20s and early 30s getting into. the railroad business he wasn't even on. a train until he was almost 40 and that. train crashed uh an axle broke and went. down an embankment and he punctured. along broke some bones and I guess was. lying there wheezing out of a hole in. his lung saying this is the future that. was so. great and he got into railroads it's.

it's crazy like a year later yeah he did. and one of the things that he had a. really great talent for was identifying. like loser railroads seemingly loser. railroads and figuring out ways that. they actually had been overlooked yeah. and a really good example of that is the. Harlem railroad which is just a short. little line that other railroads larger. railroads used to connect to New York. City but Vanderbilt recognized that it. was the only line that went all the way. into Into the Heart of Manhattan and so. he bought that up and he also at the.

same time not only got control of that. little railroad this is a really early. chance for him to show how good he was. at driving up stock prices so when he. came along and bought the Harlem. railroad or started buying shares of the. Harlem railroad it was worth in today's. money $168 a share not too shabby but. from what I could tell at the time not. very great at all by the time he was. done cornering this stock um he had.

driven the shares up to $. 5998 wow in just a few years and so in. doing so not only did he make a ton of. money for himself he also developed this. reputation that made owners of other. railroads say I own a bunch of shares in. my railroad uh you want to come buy mine. and drive my stock price up and then buy. me out and So eventually he didn't he. didn't even have to under other. companies they came to him and just said.

here Buddy buy us please they were blue. star. Airlines what is that remember that from. Wall Street from their Will Be Blood no. there were no Airlines in their Will Be. Blood no remember Wall Street that was. the one that Martin Sheen worked for. yeah that gecko came in and bought out. and uh I think he shuttered them though. that was the. difference yeah yeah he was a corporate. Raider he he uh and actually that era. That 80s junk B is frequently cited or. it was at the time as the second guilded.

age so this is not the first time we're. living in what's known as the second. guilded age so to put a bow on. Vanderbuilt he uh consolidated like you. said all these Railways uh between New. York and Chicago He manipulated stock he. fixed prices he the like you said. earlier the government wasn't looking so. you kind of do what you wanted and he. became a very very very wealthy man and. like a lot of these guys late in his. life uh turned into a a.

philanthropist um built Grand Central. Station it was called the Grand Central. Depot at the time um which during the. recession provided tons and tons of jobs. for people true uh and then the Central. University of Nashville was eventually. renamed Vanderbilt University uh because. all he did was give him a million bucks. isn't that crazy is that right I guess. back then a lot Mone significant sure. sure like I feel like we could get stuff. you should know listeners to and get a. university named after us let's try that.

actually like stuff you should know you. we could do a we could morganize a. struggling University how about that hey. one more thing about Vanderbilt so he. left about a100 million to his mostly to. his eldest son William in six years. William doubled that wow mostly by. investing in railroads that's how much. money you can make in railroads and. William was also well known for throwing. probably the most lavage party in the. history of New York City um they spent.

$1.8 million in today's dollars on. champagne alone yeah that was when he. finished his mansion on Fifth a and uh I. looked it up because to see if any of. these Robert Baron Mansions were still. around today but I don't I don't think. it I mean I know this one was demolished. in. 1926 so if you want to get a really good. idea of just how rich these people were. go to Newport Road Island and visit. millionaires row because there was a.

huge there's a huge overlooking this. Cliff there's a a long row of the most. astounding Mansions you've ever seen. built during the Gilded Age it's one of. the better walks you can take in life it. really is the oce on one side and then. these mansions on the other it's really. cool and each Mansion each Mansion is so. different from the others that just. touring them is amazing you could just. be utterly disgusted by the concept of. billionaires or robber barons or. whatever and you still enjoy taking this. tour of these Mansions they're just.

works of art you know AG it's really. it's really worth a visit Plus Newport. is just one of the more Charming towns. in the country I love Newport or you. could take a hate walk and uh just look. at those mansions and think about what. wrecking ball would look like shake your. fists at the dumb waiters and all that. but then you turn around and look at the. ocean and think oh okay all right it's. really cool it's a it's a definitely. cool to visit them for sure uh and by. the way a little piece of trivia if you. go uh if you ENT Central Park at the. 105th Street entrance that big beautiful.

Iron Gate was from that Mansion the. Vanderbilt mansion uh they they donated. a lot of the stuff before they. demolished it is that right. yeah so I mentioned morganization and. that's actually named after the next. Rober Baron we're going to talk about. okay do we break beforehand and uh no I. think we break after JP how about that. are you okay with that sure okay so so. then we're going to hang in there. everybody don't don't fast forward yet. we're going to stick around and talk. about JP Morgan right now yeah he was.

born with money he did not come from. meager means and work himself up by his. bootstraps he was the son of a very. successful banker and Merchant and uh. used those connections to get a plum job. at Wall Street when he was 20 years old. and then when he was in his 30s he. partnered uh partnered with a guy named. Anthony Drexel who was a banker uh in. from Philly and created Drexel Morgan. and Company and it became one of the. biggest investment banks at the time in.

the. world yeah um and this was when he was. in his early 30s like you said right so. um JP Morgan was known as the guy who. financed all the other robber barons um. and he had his fingers in basically. every pot that was going on he also knew. that like you could make money off of. the railroads because you were taking a. cut of all the other Industries so he. definitely got involved in them but his. whole thing was um what's called. horizontal integration where you you you.

basically come along you say this. industry should be doing way better than. it is I think there's too many. competitors and they're all holding one. another down I'm going to slowly start. buying them up and here's the thing this. is how you get control of a full. industry during the Gilded Age you go to. a couple you start buying them up and. then you put all those together and you. you form a bigger company that's way. leaner has much better economies of. scale and you can compete better against.

all the other guys so you start buying. some of the other guys up because. they're facing going out of business now. and then you've got left the real. holdouts the ones that are never going. to sell to you because they hate your. stupid face and they'll never give a. penny to you make sure that you'll never. set foot in their offices ever again and. what you do then is you start selling. for less than cost yeah you're a big. company so you can totally stand that. for a much longer time than these hold. out competitor. and they face either Financial ruin or. you eventually put them out of business.

and either way you no longer have that. competition you literally control an. entire industry Consolidated into one. beefy Mega company and all of a sudden. you have what's called morganization. which was I don't know if it was. pioneered by JP Morgan but he definitely. perfected it enough that they named the. process after him yeah and that's a good. example of what I was talking about. earlier is it's not enough to succeed. and be successful but to make sure no. one else can be so like it would be the. kind of thing in that one company you. were talking about that may be kind of.

pretty small even uh but they might. might. hold have an iron grip on one very tiny. region of the United States and you. could just let them have their business. or you could do what you're talking. about and make sure that you uh squash. them by any means necessary and force. them to sell and that's I think that's. where capitalism for a lot people has. gotten its bad name is like yeah work.

hard succeed do well but not at the. expense of every other person trying to. do well right because it it interferes. with something this country is based on. which is called the quality of. opportunity which is the idea that at. least under the eyes of the law every. single person in America has an equal. shot at making it at making something of. themselves of having like a good life. and when somebody is cheating or. engaging in monopolies or using.

underhanded tactics to to run out the. competition so that there is no. competition any longer that that is. problematic that that flies in the face. of the idea of equality of opportunity. that's right and if you listen to our. Monopoly game. episode uh you might remember that JP. Morgan was the basis of uh Monopoly man. Uncle P did we say yeah we we talked. about that good okay that makes me feel. good yeah he was modeled after old JP. Morgan himself uh and he was actually.

one of the first people to be targeted. um for antitrust in 1904 Teddy Roosevelt. came after him under the Sherman. Antitrust Act and said hey this Northern. Securities corporation uh is really. Monopoly and Supreme Court said yeah it. is bust it up yeah and so today when we. think of trusts we think of like you. know a legal entity that that can hold. um assets at the time the word trust.

meant basically an industry that had. been morganized where all of the. competitors had been folded into one. large company and the the market was. cornered by this one Mega company. General Electric um us steel both of. those were morganized companies and. apparently us steel was the first1. billion doll company that ever existed. because of that that level of. consolidation but then yeah when the. Sherman Antitrust Act was passed 1890. that was a clear sign that that this was.

not going to stand much longer and and I. think Roosevelt it was Roosevelt you. said right yeah Teddy who busted that up. and he ran on that and actually went. against he was a republican I believe. and he went against the advice of the. the you know the Elder Statesman in the. Republican Party established himself as. a a genuine um president of the people. and helped set himself up for reelection. just from that one Antitrust Act so. that's JP now do we take a.

break oh one more thing Chuck yeah I not. toying with you I swear so one one of. the ways that Morgan one of the reasons. he's reviled still and he did some. philanthropy probably more than he gets. credit for for sure but um one of the. reasons he's revil is because one of the. ways he made it so that he could compete. with other companies was um in sell for. lower than than cost was by slashing. wages. slashing the workforce and increasing.

productivity of the existing workers and. then just making sure that working. conditions he didn't spend a scent on. improving working conditions to make him. safe and that that is really not why not. because he amassed a fortune some people. criticize him for that but it's tactics. like that like like becoming a a a. billionaire basically um on the backs of. people who he wouldn't have spent a. scent to make sure could alive working. in his factories that is the.

quintessential problem people have. always had with Robert Barons is that. kind of mentality that's right now I'm. done all right we'll come back right. after this and finish up with two more. robber barons. [Music]. [Applause].

[Music]. [Applause]. hello everybody we're back to talk about. Andrew Carnegie you've ever been to. Carnegie Hall or Carnegie melon. University I've been to. both uh I've been to the university with. you that's right we did a little job. there one time that was fun mhm uh I've. been to Carnegie Hall I would I ushered. a show there uh no I didn't Usher I. passed out the play bills which meant I.

got to see the show for free and I saw. what show oh man it was one of those. special nights I got to see Beethoven's. Ninth with the full Orchestra and German. choir at Carnegie Hall it was amazing. wow something else that's pretty neat. and all I needed was a bow. tie is that the one that's um. no maybe I named it wrong it's the.

[Music]. uh oh the DI hard song yeah the Die Hard. song I Gotta I went and saw Die Hard in. concert it was. great it was hilarious so Carnegie uh. we're talking about Andrew Carnegie who. was born in. Scotland and they came to Pittsburgh uh. he was very poor uh he's about 13 years. old and he worked in a Cotton Factory. and he and this will come into play. later he kind of self-taught himself.

from books that he borrowed from a. wealthy benefactor from his private. Library which is we'll come to play. later his favorite one was Flowers in. the Attic wow I would have thought Great. Expectations but that's okay NOP NOP so. he. um he like vanderbel is a definitely a. self-made man for sure and I guess he. kind of was he had his fingers in a lot. of different pots kind of like JP Morgan. at first and then he he turned his.

attention to Steel because again. remember steel is like the basically the. the foundation for this American economy. just blowing up and he was in Pittsburgh. sure so he he his name became synonymous. with steel and I guess at first up until. about. 1892 he had a reputation as being a. friend of the worker and that the the. workers at Carnegie Steel in in. Homestead uh just across the river from. Pittsburgh um they they felt like you.

know Carnegie would take care of them um. and they found out the Hardway that that. was not the case when they they went on. strike in 1892 during what came to be. known as the Homestead Strike which. would result in the death of 10 people. which is not how they they plann things. to go uh and apparently the reason why. that happened is because the Pinkerton. were called in as strike Breakers yeah I. might want to eventually do an episode. on this but um that that's sort of the. overview you bring in the Pinkerton and.

then they battle with the uh like. literally with guns uh Pinkerton died I. think like eight or nine of the 10 or 12. people that died were the pinkertons no. no I think it was just one I think the. nine were the strikers yeah oh okay well. we should definitely do a full episode. then cuz for sure I want to get this. right but but what I read was that the. the strikers um so the Pinkerton showed. up in barges and they were basically on. as a private Army to protect scab. workers and and bust the strike up um.

but they arrived in barges and after the. initial violence the Striking workers. and some of their families surrounded. these barges and demanded that the. Pinkerton come off the boats and. Pinkerton they so the Pinkerton said. okay we'll come off if you guarantee our. safety and they said fine and the pitins. came off and they got beaten by all of. the the strikers they just completely. went back on their word and then set.

their barges on fire I guess the. Pinkerton escaped to the factory with. their life and um the uh National Guard. was called in to quell the violence yeah. well National Guard was called in not. only to quell the violence but also. called in to act in the interest of. Carnegie so he kind of commandeered his. own little personal Army to help take. care of things right starting with the. Pinkerton and then with the National. Guard and it's like this kind of. collusion that is also another huge. criticism like we were saying the. government is known for being like La. Fair as far as regulation is concerned.

but they'll totally send in the National. Guard not just to quell violence but to. make sure that the strike Breakers don't. attack the scab labor to keep the. factory going and that that that kind of. like government Capital collusion at the. expense of the workers is that is. there's a long-standing tradition of of. that being almost universally reviled in. America over enough of an arc of time if. that keeps up more and more just.

everyday Americans start to notice and. start to resent it and that apparently. is a really good Force for social change. because Americans don't like that kind. of thing after a long enough period of. time yeah and I think Carnegie tried to. distance himself from that strike by. saying that he was sort of out of the. loop he was in Scotland the whole time. uh but they have since found. correspondence that uh shows that he was. very much involved in that. and you know there's some speculation. that he may have uh had some genuine.

moments of regret and guilt over that uh. because he was a big-time philanthropist. later in life um I think he said in his. book The Gospel of wealth the man who. dies thus Rich dies. disgraced and uh we mentioned the. libraries coming back into play he built. more than 2500 uh libraries and that's. really one of his big uh Legacies along. with um the Arts the Carnegie. Corporation and the Endowment for.

International Peace Carnegie melan. University Carnegie Museum but the. libraries really have made a pretty big. difference in this country they really. have for sure um and he was one of just. the alltime great philanthropists in. American history for sure um but he. still pales in comparison to the the. all-time top record holder. philanthropist John D Rockefeller. who is also a Rober Baron but he also is. Far and Away America's most prolific um.

and generous benefactor for sure he's. also one of the most Visionary. philanthropists of all time too yeah and. some people say that he was uh you know. if you just account for money and. inflation the richest man ever to live. um I'm not sure how they calculate that. because his $900. million uh Peak in 1912 is about 23. billion today so here I saw how you.

ready I'm sure it's yeah go ahead if you. do his wealth relative to the total. economic output which is an even larger. figure than gross domestic product I had. a feeling it was something like that his. wealth represented 2% of the total. economic output of the United States at. the time to to have that value today you. would have to be worth about 350 billion. okay and I think Jeff Bezos is worth 140. or something like that yeah and I think.

we didn't even mention was it Carnegie. that had uh at one point like $1 of. every $20 in circulation was his for uh. yeah that's right that was Carnegie for. sure yeah I mean these numbers are. staggering for sure for people like. Rockefeller and Carnegie it's just it's. unbelievable but the thing is in and. like like John John D Rockefeller was a. ruthless ruthless businessman who put a. lot of people out of business brought a.

lot of misery and hardship on just small. everyday producers of oil which we'll. see but again it's really difficult to. overstate the impact that his. philanthropy has had on the United. States He peaked at 900 million like you. said when he died he had he had given. away everything but 26 million of that. and he probably felt kind of bad that he. had $26 million left because he had he. was a very religious man and apparently. he um learned very early on that it was.

Every Man's religious duty to make as. much money as you possibly can and then. to give away as much money as you. possibly can too and he he apparently. lived that even before he was wealthy. when he was still just a average worker. he would give away something like 10% of. all of his paycheck so he was a. philanthropist his whole life for sure. he was still a robber baron too though. yeah and his whole you you know of. course oil was his business Standard Oil. um it was just a a Goliath and there and.

there were a bunch of big like sort of. like the railroads it was oil and. railroads were Industries where you. could have a bunch of people that had. these huge huge corporations but. Standard Oil was Far and Away bigger. than any of them by the early 1900s they. controlled more than 90% of the oil. Market can you imagine. 90% and the way that he cornered the. market was you know he did that standard. morganization kind of thing where he.

went around and bought at first and then. started to turn up the heat on the. competition on the holdouts but one of. the ways that he turned up that heat was. he colluded with the. railroad um the the different railroads. in the area who were shipping all this. oil to say not only were were they going. to give him a rebate so he got money. back where they wouldn't give money back. to other oil shippers just because of. you know volume that makes sense. but they also had to to get his business. and he had so much business that they.

would do this they the railroads had to. tax an added tax on all of his. competitors so they paid an extra 20 to. 30 cents a barrel to ship not. just paid more than he did because of. his rebates they paid more in addition. to that just for not being John D. Rockefeller and then on top of that to. keep him from taking that rebate and. going around to other railroads and. getting a cheaper rebate and abandoning. that Railroad. um they actually gave him a kickback of.

that added tax so his competitors were. getting taxed by the railroads and he. was actually getting some of that tax. himself too you just can't possibly. compete with that and it put a lot of. smaller oil producers and shippers and. refiners out of business that's amazing. it is uh let me see he gave 75 million. away to the University of Chicago well. it kind of founded the University of. Chicago with money also Spelman too. which was um established to educate.

freed slaves yeah um he he he bankrolled. Spellman for its founding as well and in. one of our best and most favorite. episodes you might remember the. Rockefeller Sanitary Commission helped. eradicate hookworm in the South yeah. totally remember that that is one of our. better episodes for sure so those are. just four of the uh sort of most uh. famous and some might say notorious. Robert Barons big long list you know you.

could throw Henry Ford in there uh John. Jacob Aster Charles Schwab Andrew melon. Jay gold yeah I looked at I was thinking. about Jay Paul Getty but he was later on. he he wouldn't have qualified so some of. these guys had some terrible quotes too. that also just made them despised. through history um Carnegie said that uh. it's not the man who does the work who. gets Rich it's the man who gets other. men to do the work yeah which is not a. very tasteful thing to say U when you're. ultra wealthy and breaking strikes with.

guns um that Jay ghoul guy mentioned he. said that he could hire one half of the. workers in America to shoot the other. half to death if he wanted to which is. another nice thing to say and apparently. John D Rockefeller once said competition. is a sin so these guys had some terrible. PR um and because of that a lot of. people have said like well I wonder if. some of the ultra wealthy industrialists. or innovators or people who basically.

the billionaires who are leading the. world today are are they just like. Robert Barons with better PR and better. marketing maybe and apparently. supposedly that's not necessarily the. case and here's why remember I was. saying that like Robert Barons were kind. of being reformed by historians these. days yes especially conservative. historians well they point to some like. really IND disputable things like these. guys were ruthless and they engaged in. horrific.

anti-competitive uh kind of anti-. capitalist tactics to to get those the. wealth and they did it on the backs of. workers who they took advantage of and. didn't pay very well and um killed in. their workplaces basically um but the. reason that America is still powerful. today is because of the work that these. guys did of the the industries that they. created um public schooling came about. and was kind of became widespread to. prepare people for the jobs that these.

guys created um and you really can't you. can't look away from the fact that some. of them were the greatest. philanthropists that the country has. ever produced too. um the that flies in the face with kind. of the exception of Bill Gates it flies. in the face of the people who are around. today um that that not only are they not. great philanthropists necessarily I'm. looking at Steve Jobs who isn't around. anymore but definitely was not a good.

philanthropist in his life he is now his. family is but he wasn't when he was. alive um that's a big big Mark against. people who have control of significant. portions of the wealth in America today. but also even more than that those guys. today are pres they're presiding over a. decline a decline in wages decline in. living conditions whereas These Guys. these captains of industry and the. robber barons for the 19 century they. were pre presiding over a rise like an. improvement in um the the the way that.

America lived and the standard of living. it the kind of the polar opposite even. though the inequality is roughly the. same very interesting I think so too I. also wonder though too if the this this. inequality will usher in a second. Progressive Era which it seems like it. has all the markings to do that maybe so. we need to do a progressive era episode. too sometime okay deal all right well. since you said deal Chuck I think that's.

time for listener mail. huh yeah I think I alluded to this in. another one about the word. marijuana yeah Didn't I talk about that. totally but I didn't read the mail right. not that I remember no all right this is. from Jack Glick hey guys love the show. been listening for five years or so and. I make sure not to miss any new episodes. um listening to the one on matcha when. you started to talk about marijuana. decided to get into touch I am the lead. analyst on cannabis taxation for the.

Canadian federal government and we long. ago made a decision to refer to the. plant by its proper name cannabis uh. marijuana has a number of historically. racist associations and I know you guys. are always using uh wary of using. appropriate terms for things I had a. good laugh at the question over whether. womb was still okay to say in the. ultrasound. episode uh thought you might like to. know that uh how outdated and implicitly. offensive marijuana is say and I'd like. to encourage you to use the word. cannabis when referring to it in the. future uh all the best keep it up uh.

that is from Jack. Glick that is a great name Jack great. job great name great email from a great. guy I assume sounds like a great guy if. you want to show off what a great person. you are you can email us yourself like. Jack Glick did man what a great name um. you can wrap it up spank it on the. bottom and send it off to stuff podcast. iheartradio.com. [Music]. stuff you should know is a production of.

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