Selects: Plant Migration | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW

Hey guys, it's me Josh and for this. week's select, I've chosen our August. 2023 episode on plant migration. This. one makes me a brainy boy, what with its. earth science and something that goes on. under our noses without us really. realizing that it's happening. And we. figure out that there's a lot to learn. about plants on the move, which makes it. even sweeter. I hope you love this one. as much as I do. Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a.

production [music] of iHeart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm. Josh and there's Chuck [music] and. Jerry's here, too. And this is Stuff You. Should Know, the We're All Melting. Edition. >> Yeah, I'm just a just a migrating. [music] fern. Oh, that's a good one to. be. >> blowing through the the forest looking. for a new home. >> Sure. >> I'm a spore. >> What happens when you get there, spore?

>> Well, I'll probably grow into a. beautiful new fern because ferns are. pretty hearty. >> That's awesome. And I'll bet you'll. contribute uh to society in all sorts of. beneficial ways that ferns that were. already there couldn't necessarily do. >> I hope so. There is fern stuff in here. And uh I have a wonderful fern scene at. my camp uh on the other side of the. feeder creek that goes into the main. creek. I call it I even have a sign. This is fern forest. >> Mhm. >> And it's a forest of ferns. It's quite.

lovely. >> God knows where they're from because. those things can travel quite a bit as. we'll see. >> Yeah. They could be from uh from from. Alabama. >> easily. I'm not kidding. Easily, man. I've got a. stat that's going to blow your mind in a. second. >> Oh. Oh boy. Actually, [clears throat]. I'll just bust it out now. You ready? >> Yeah. Yeah. How far can a fern travel? >> A fern can travel, the Tasmanian tree. fern in particular, can send its spores. 500 to 800 kilometers. That's 300 to 500.

miles from the mother plant. And get. this, a single frond, a frond. >> Mhm. >> produces uh more than 750 million of. those spores. >> Wow. So, you can understand that ferns, I mean, you find ferns everywhere. They're really hearty. Um, they can. actually survive cold colder. temperatures than you would think. They. also thrive in the tropics. They're like. a really great pioneer plant. They. usually are among the first large plants.

that show up in a like a newly cleared. part of Earth, right? >> This all makes sense then. >> Okay. So, what we're talking about then. is that those ferns that showed up in. this new place and said, "Hey, let's get. this let's get this biosphere going. again. Let's get this biome back into. shape after this wildfire or something. like that.". >> Mhm. >> Um or there was like a stampede because. there was a really great ice cream truck. that drove through. One of those two. >> Mhm. >> Um th those ferns have migrated. They.

came from Tasmania apparently all the. way to wherever the ice cream truck was. and now they're there. >> And so they actually moved in that sense. which is really surprising because. plants are what are known as cesile. organisms. They don't move from place to. place individually as organisms, but as. a species they can actually move around. like inchworms pretty pretty good. >> Yeah, it's pretty cool. I I didn't. really know much about this. Uh we're. talking about plant migration and the. idea well not idea the very real fact.

that uh just like uh humans and animals. >> will go to more hospitable clims as the. climate may change or just I don't know. uh just to seek a better place to be. Plants and trees and things on mass do. the same thing. >> Yeah. And there's um all sorts of ways. that they do that too. They so they do. it by dispersing their seeds or their. spores in that case. Fern spores are. single-c cellled organisms. They're not.

not like a seed technically, but they do. the same thing, right? >> Mhm. >> They show up in a place and set up shop. and they start rocking out. >> Yeah, that's right. And and ferns, you. know, it depends. And we'll get all into. this stuff, but how fast this happens. depends on different factors. Uh how far. these plants can migrate depends on. different factors. Mhm. >> Um why this is happening. >> is generally climate change. >> Yeah. >> And plants are and trees and things are.

generally moving north uh or up in. elevation if they hit mountains. >> or south in the southern hemisphere. >> Exactly. Um so that's sort of the. general pattern and we mentioned ferns. because like you said those spores can. really haul. Uh ferns also mature very. quickly. >> and you know the wind can just. that's why I got that's why I got a fern. forest at my camp probably. >> Yeah. So they they check both of the. boxes that you need to be a fast.

migrating plant species. They produce um. seeds or spores at a very young age and. their seed or spore can travel very far. distances. Right. Right. >> So they can move around and also it. doesn't hurt that like I said ferns are. adaptable. the trees and other plants. don't move quite so fast, but they move, especially if you look at the fossil. record, a lot faster than they actually. should. >> So, if you pay attention to a single. organism, say an oak, >> those acorns don't travel terribly far.

>> They may get a little further away from. the drip line if a squirrel happens to. bury it somewhere and a new oak tree. grows. >> Sure. I think um it was Andrew Samberg. who described acorns as solar powered. factories for producing more oak trees. >> Whoa. Whoa. Andy Samberg said that? >> No. Anders Sandberg. >> Oh, okay. >> He's a philosopher at um uh Oxford. >> H that makes a lot more sense. >> Yeah. Yeah. Andy Samberg. He ate his.

lime accidentally in his Corona bottle. That's the That's what he's got. >> You know who he's married to? Uh, Patricia Arette. >> No, it's not Arquette. >> You've been guessing Patricia Arquette. for a lot of things lately. I feel like. >> Have I? >> Uh, he's married to Yeah, I feel like. that's come up before recently, maybe. I. don't know. >> Her name just rolls off the tongue. >> I know. Uh, a big fan of hers. Uh, he is. married to what's her name? Joanna.

Newsome, the singer and harpist. >> Oh, neat. Nice. >> And if you like if you're into. architecture and homes, you should seek. out uh I don't know if it was. Architectural Digest or something, but. some someone did a spread on their home. Uh and it is really something else. >> Okay. So, that's Andy Samberg Hour. >> Yeah, that's. >> that we just checked out. >> A quick detour. Uh. >> wait, wait. I wasn't done. >> Oh, no. Go ahead. So, if you look at an. individual tree, an oak tree, those. acorns don't go particularly far away.

from the tree, >> as the old saying goes. But the fact. that they do fall away from the tree. means that very slowly some of those. seedlings are going to grow up a little. more northward or a little more. southward than its mother plant. And. very, very slowly the whole group of. oaks can move southward or northward, right? >> Over hundreds and thousands and tens of. thousands of years. so long. The thing. is, if you look at the fossil record, they move way faster than that than than.

they should. And there's actually a. paradox that was named by a guy named. Clement Reed, right? >> Mhm. Reed's paradox. >> Yeah, he's got a great great title for. it. >> Of rapid plant migration. That's the. full title. >> It sounds almost like snake oil from the. 19th century. >> Yeah, it kind of does. >> So, what is it? >> Oh, okay. I didn't set me up. Uh we're. still tight after all these years. >> for sure. >> Uh so what he found from the fossil. record like you were talking about and. as we'll see that that's one like you.

know pretty good way to study this stuff. especially pollen fossils right. >> Mhm. [clears throat] Yeah. Because. they're so hardy. >> Yeah. So he saw that trees were. migrating a lot faster uh than like the. rate that you would think. And so he. like those oaks I think was one example. you gave on the British Isles uh after. the last glacial period over a span of. like 10,000 years or so. They traveled. about 600 miles and it would normally. take about a million years if the ste if.

the seeds were just dispersed in a. typical way. Right. >> But what he figured was that uh what may. be happening here is like uh some weird. weather event happens. Mhm. >> that sent things much farther than. usual. Or like some deer or something, eats uh something and then poops out. something really far away from where it. started. And so all of a sudden this. animal has spread it via their poo poo. >> Right. And this this is how like.

largecale migration happens or I should. say rapid migration over long distances. Right. >> Right. Yeah. It's the it's the unusual. not just the acorn falling and hitting. the ground. It's not just gravity. assisted. It's animal assisted which is. called zukori or it's wind assisted. which is called the nemocorey or water. assisted which is called hydrocory. Um. and that's just the way that some plants. disperse their seeds that's kind of on. top of the normal way they disperse it.

which is just dropping it from their. leaves or the spores blowing on the wind. which I guess is one type of corey. >> Yeah. So, like if a squirrel loaded up. its mouth full of things. >> and somehow found its way into your. camper as you set off for Arizona, >> that would be a freak event. Sure. [laughter]. >> And it probably wouldn't be on mass, but. you know, that's a way a tree could. move. >> All it takes is that one that one oak to. make it. >> sure to just survive and then it starts. its own new um part of the range.

>> Yeah, absolutely. And we also uh should. point out when was uh when was Reed. doing this? This is a while ago, like a. 100 plus years ago, right? >> Yeah. He he was a ge geologist. I don't. know if we said, but his um Reed's. paradox of rapid plant migration came. out in 1899, and it was a smash hit. >> Yeah. So people I mean, for at least. that long, science has been sort of. curious about this uh this migration. happening at a rate that they would not. expect. >> Right. The thing is is it's really hard.

when you throw in that X factor to. calculate how fast an actual species can. migrate. Um, and there's a few ways that. you can study that kind of thing. Um, one, as you said, is studying the fossil. record, which is super helpful. >> Um, but it's not showing you what's. going on contemporaneously. You're. within the last couple decades. This is. 10,000 a million years ago, something. like that, right? >> Yeah. Uh so if you wanted to study.

something a little closer to home uh. timeline uh timeline wise you would. maybe set up what's called a permanent. vegetation plot. So you would just you. would mark off an area and you would go. back there you know every so often like. every 6 months or every year or so and. just sort of chart what's happening. Uh. that's one really good way I think uh. they've been doing this for about a. hundred years uh since the 1920s. So. we've got a pretty good data set there. Um, something else you could do is go. somewhere like let's say you dug up some.

cool uh scientific uh journal from a. scientist from, you know, 200 years ago. that went and explored some island. And. while they may not have like charted. everything out exactly like you would in. today's science, they may have a really. nice diary about all the plant life. there and things that they saw there and. where it might be. And you could go back. to that place and it's not quite as. tight of a record, but you could still. get a pretty good idea of what's. happening. >> Yeah. Depending on whose journal you're. working from. And back in 2012, a Danish.

team of scientists followed the record. left by a 19th century geologist named. Alexander von Humboldt from Germany, who. was just an interesting dude in and of. himself. He. >> he called coffee concentrated sunbeams. So, he's my kind of guy. >> Oh, man. That's great. They went um back. to Chimberazzo volcano in Ecuador, which. Humbult studied in detail. And not only. did he study the vegetation there, and. he classified all sorts of new plants.

that Europeans didn't know about at that. point, he also noted exactly where they. were on the mountain as far as the. elevation went. >> Super helpful. >> Super helpful. So based on this. information, the 2012 Danes were able to. go back and and recreate his trip and. then they were able to note what plants. were where. And they found that. everything all species on average had. moved up the mountain by about an. average of about 500 meters. >> Mhm. >> Which is significant. It's like um.

almost a mile. It's like 8/10 of a mile. >> Yeah. Yeah. That's the average. >> Yeah. Uh there was a lot of variation. within that but that's that's a long way. >> for sure. >> And what we found out and I guess this. comes up a little later but uh a plant. can find more hospitable clims uh going. up 500 m than they might by going let's. just say north like 90 to 100 miles. >> Yes. >> So like a much quicker road to uh better.

climbs if you just go up that mountain. >> For sure. Yeah. That's kind of two ways. they move is um uh longitudinally. >> Yeah. >> Or altitudinally. >> You got to be in shape though. >> Oh, for sure. If. >> you're going to climb that mountain. >> Uh should we take a break? >> Uh I think we should. But just to wrap. it up real quick, there's a bunch of. ways you can study the movement of. trees, but it's so slow and it happens. over such long timelines, longer than a. human timeline, that it's harder to do. than you'd think. But we still have.

figured out some ways to do it. All. right, we'll be right back and we'll. talk about all this stuff in more detail. right after this. [music]. [music]. [music]. [music]. Uh, one other way we failed to mention. probably would have been better to just.

say that before the break, but again. still learning after 16 years. >> Uh satellite images is another way that. you can study on the short term. Uh. >> you know, the fossil pollen is much. longer and those uh plant plots and. things like that, vegetation plots. >> are are shorter term, but satellite. images can also help. >> Yeah, if you want to catch like a a. Venus fly trap in the act of leaprogging. over some other plant, satellite image. is going to help you with that. the. fossil record won't show you that.

>> Uh here's the thing with all this. though. It's not um like we're going to. talk a lot about climate change because. that's what's spurring a lot of the. movement right now. But the Earth's. climate has changed a lot over the you. know over the years. And this is not. some new thing. There used to be uh. periods of time where the Sahara desert. was quite green and there was grasses. growing there and tropical plants. growing there and elephants roaming the. Sahara and wildlife living there. And.

they've learned that this is actually uh. one of the things that helped move, you. know, uh humans around, like humans. could actually migrate through the. Sahara with with much more ease than. they could before during these green. Sahara periods. Yeah, that's so. fascinating that you know, who knows. when we would have migrated out of. Africa into Europe and the ages had the. green Sahara not happened. Isn't that. just nuts? >> Yeah. Like hundreds of miles it says. here that they would find tropical. plants growing where they shouldn't be. growing.

>> alongside, you know, the the desert. stuff that survived. So that was this. weird sort of mixed up biome for a time. >> Yeah. In the Green Sahara period, there. were a few of them that have been. documented, but they figured out that. they happen about every 23,000 years, >> right? >> We're due for one in about 12,000 years, something like that. Um, and it's based. on the tilt in Earth's axis. >> Um, that's neither here nor there. But. the point is is during these um these. periods where the Sahara was just a. humid kind of tropical forest.

>> Mhm. Um there was a mixture kind of what. you touched upon of different like you. said a hybrid biome of stuff that. wouldn't necessarily live together under. normal circumstances but got along just. famously in the couple thousand years. that the Sahara was green and those. plants were growing together. >> Yeah, it's just amazing to think about. >> And then in North America we have. another example too. um after the. Laurentide glacier um which is way up in. the Arctic right now. It used to be down.

in Indiana and northern New Jersey. >> Yeah. >> And when it retreated, it took. everything with it. Um it took bowlers, it carved out lakes, it did all sorts of. neat stuff, but what it didn't leave. behind was vegetation. So, it left it. was like a a giant ice cream truck. basically. >> Yeah. >> It left nothing behind. And it was just. a great place for plants to to pioneer. and colonize. >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's why you have. pine trees in New Jersey, right? >> I would think so. Yeah. Or in the south. because they were too far. They they.

they were trapped below or Yeah. below. the Laurentide um glacier down in the. southeast even though they normally. would have been growing in the north. Right. And as the glacier retreated, the. climate changed in that area and so the. trees just moved on up. So that's an. example of migration as well. >> Yeah. Oh, wait. I thought they but I. thought they were it was more hospitable. in the south for these trees. >> and that migration sent them north. >> Yeah, that's what I said, right?

>> Oh, okay. >> Maybe I heard you wrong. >> Yeah. >> Um the other thing we should talk about. as far as climate change goes because. like I said, we're going to mention that. a lot is the uh rate of change of the. climate is increasing as uh most people. agree on. And that is kind of where we. are now in discussing this is like is uh. the rate of climate increasing too fast. for the plant migration to catch up or. in some cases are the plants migrating. ahead of that pace.

>> and that's really sort of uh you know a. lot of this episode is about this rate. of change. uh in the 200 years since the. beginning of the industrial age, no. coincidence, uh the the temperature of. the earth has increased more than one. degree. >> Yeah, we we we all know now that you. know one degree is like a huge huge. deal. >> It's 1.8 degrees Fahrenheit. >> Yeah, exactly. Uh but 37 of that change. over the past 200 years has come since.

2011. Yes. So it's people have, you. know, someone has stepped on the gas. here. Yeah. And it's happening much much. faster and seemingly in many cases. fasting uh faster than these plants can. catch up. >> Yeah. So plants are used to migrating. like they've been migrating throughout. Earth's history. But these conditions. are different. It's not like it was. before. Even when the earth was heating. up after the last ice age, I think did. you say that it it took about an average. of 1,400 years to increase by one degree.

after the last glacial period? >> No. No, that was the setup that would. have been very helpful actually. >> I mean, think about it. So, we've we've. achieved one degree in 200 years and. after the last glacial period ended, we. the earth heated one degree every,400. years. >> Yeah. That's called a rapid increase. >> Yeah. Like you said, somebody's put. their foot on the gas and that somebody. is um western industrialized nations, right? >> Yeah. >> So, that's that's one thing that's. really kind of putting the the heat on.

plants literally is their southernmost. ranges or their northernmost ranges. depending on what what um I guess their. equatorial pointing ranges the where. it's hotter. >> Those are the ones that are really at. stake. So, are those plants ranges big. enough that they'll be able to survive. that change in climate and just keep. moving northward or are they going to be. outpaced by the movement of the climate? Because the climate is racing toward the.

poles just like the plants are, right? Yeah. >> So, who's faster? Well, it turns out um. if you talk about New England's trees, they move something I think red oaks is. what it was that this University of. Vermont group was studying, they move. something like a tenth to 3/10enth of a. mile a year, right? >> Yeah. >> The climate is moving something like. four to six miles a year. So, the. climate is really kind of showing up as. kind of the Usain Bolt of of this race.

And um I don't know, the the plants are. like me racing Usain Bolt. >> Yeah, that lab group in Vermont, they. all have t-shirts that just say you do. the math. >> Exactly. >> It's very smart me, but they get their. point across. >> For sure. Um there's another example of and you. know we've kind of been talking about. northern uh northern movement uh which. is generally the pattern but not always. Um there's a researcher at Purdue named. um Song Lin Fay. I think Fay or Fi,

>> I don't know. >> Fei, I bet it's Fi. Um who studied 86. species of trees in the eastern US over. about 30 years from the mid80s to 2015. >> And it depends on what the tree is. Uh. hardwoods, scarlet oaks, red maples, um. magnolia are moving west uh at about 1. and a half kilometers a year. uh because. the Midwest is becoming more wet and the. conditions are good for those trees to.

grow. Um softwoods um shortleaf pines, red pines, bald cyprus, they're actually. moving north about a kilometer of the. year, uh a kilometer a year. So. different plants and trees are moving in. different directions at different rates. Yeah, it's very much akin to a. neighborhood that's um this old. settledin neighborhood with a bunch of. mix of people. >> that's being gentrified. >> It's being pushed out and separated. Not. everybody just the whole neighborhood. doesn't just move. This neighborhood.

breaks up and goes in different. directions. >> Yeah. And so to ecologists and arborists. like this is very concerning because for. a long time we've looked at groups of. plants as communities like some some. plants go with other plants like I think. um what is it beach and uh. >> hickory. [laughter]. is it? >> I don't know. I like hickory though. >> We can't we can't leave that in there. Oh yeah. Hemlocks. I knew it was an h.

tree. >> Yeah. Beach and hemlocks go together. like peanut butter and chocolate. >> Um, so too do like furs and spruces, right? So when you find one of these, you usually find the other one. And. there's also a bunch of other plants. that kind of interact and usually some. types of animals that hang out in those. same types of forests. So if you got the. hemlocks going north and the beach going. west, who are the hemlocks going to mix. with and who are the beach going to mix. with when they start to set up these new. communities? And that was really.

troubling to ecologists. But I think. palinologists, these fossil pollen. scientists have said it's always been. this way. Communities aren't permanent. They're kind of instable. They just seem. permanent to us because our life years. or our lifespans on the the order of. like 70 80 years. Right. Right. This is. much it's a much slower process, but. it's a constantly changing turnover. Um. so it's not that big of a deal. But. again, because of the pace of climate. change, when these hemlocks get further.

north and the beach get further west, they're going to have far less time to. develop new connections and networks. with the new plants that they set up. communities with. >> Yeah. Uh, and the other thing too, you. know, earlier when I mentioned that a a. a series of trees might move, um, up a. mountain side, >> uh, because it's a way quicker way to. get to a more hospitable climate than. moving that 90 m north. >> Yeah. >> Uh, when they, and this happens in in. other cases as well, it's not just like.

up a mountain side, but when they get to. the place where they're going, it it may. be a better place. uh it may be more. hospitable climate-wise, but other. things aren't so great. So, if you move. up that mountain slope, let's say, you. have shallower uh soil, and so those. trees move up there because the. climate's better, but then they get. there and the soil isn't as great. So, they get squeezed into where they can. grow, maybe into like a tiny little. narrow band that's, you know, potentially choking off the rest of the.

forest. >> Yeah. I I've figured out it's kind of. like hiding in a closet during a house. fire. Like you're gonna be safe in the. short term, but in the long term it's. not a great strategy, but it's not like. the trees have any choice. They can't go. back down. It's too hot there. They. can't move further up. There's the. soil's inhospitable. So, they're trapped. and they're eventually going to become a. thinner and thinner band until they just. >> pop out of existence. >> That's right. And the other thing that. can happen too when like you said uh. when they get to a new place and they.

don't have enough time to make new. friends um all of a sudden that can open. the window for bad friends to show up. >> Yeah. >> And all of a sudden invasive species are. there and then you've got a whole other. set of problems. >> Yeah. The ones that wear like leather. jackets with the little silver studs on. their shoulders. [laughter]. >> Those are the ones you got to watch out. for. Those plants. Uh, if this all seems. very kind of um on too long of a. timeline for you to care, um, first of. all, you probably don't care much about.

climate change because that's the whole. name of the game there. >> Sure. >> Um, but maple syrup is a good example. that Livia found. Livia helped us out. and she did a great job with this. >> Um, the maple tree, um, which species is. it? The sugar maple is one of the two. main species that we use to get that. delicious maple syrup. I'm sorry, just. as an aside. Sugar maple are two. beautiful words that form an even more. beautiful. >> You are right on the money, my friend. >> You know, >> sugar maple, >> that just sounds nice coming out of my.

mouth. >> Yeah. >> Uh they have been migrating uh north. into Canada. And you might say, well, that's great. Canada is a fine place to. live, and I'm sure they love their maple. syrup there, too. But uh in Quebec, the. researchers have found that they're not. going to go beyond their current range. up there because the their boreal forest. up there. So the soil again, they the. climate might be better, but then they. get up there and the soil pH and the. microbe content in the soil is not what.

they're used to and not what they work. well with and grow well with. So they're. not doing well up there in the forest. >> No. No. And that's it's it's the exact. same position as the the trees that are. trying to go up the mountain are running. into. Eventually, these trees that are. moving into the boreal forest areas, they're like they can't go any further. Like they're not adapted to that over a. long enough timeline. >> Yeah. Maybe. >> those sugar maples could like a few of. them could land in the boreal forest and. end up surviving in that kind of soil.

and then they would be adapted for and. they'd start reproducing and then as the. boreal forest move closer to the poles. or the Arctic the those trees would move. where the boreal forest used to be, right? Totally not a problem over a long. enough time span. Again, climate change. has so drastically shortened that time. span that there's probably not going to. be time for this and those sugar maples. will just run into that boreal soil and. just they they'll it'll be like hitting. a brick wall for their species.

>> Yeah. Uh, another issue that can happen. and I know this all just seems like. doomsday stuff. >> Kind of is. >> It kind of is though. uh let's say like. the Amazon episode that we talked about. when trees are moving out there um they. might be replaced by something and it. may not be an invasive species but it. may just be weeds or grasses or. something. Uh those aren't as good at. capturing carbon as those trees were. So. then that accelerates the problem even. more, >> right? Um and then there's another if.

you want to keep talking about doomsday. scenarios. Um, those boreal forests, they actually are, if you look at a map. or if you look at planet Earth from. outer space, >> they're dark, which means that they. absorb more sunlight, more heat, more UV. radiation than the polar caps, the ice. that reflects it back into space. So, as. those boreal forests advance further and. further north toward the toward the. Arctic or the North Pole, and there's.

less and less ice to reflect it, there's. more and more heat for them to trap, which is just going to heat the Earth up. that much faster. It's a it's a positive. feedback loop that's super duper. negative. >> Yeah, very negative. Um, maybe we should. cover tropical things moving north and. then take a break. >> Yeah, because I got some good stuff on. that, man. I'm super excited. Yeah, I. mean it goes both ways. So you can have. like uh tropical plants in tropical. zones like Florida where you know the.

earth is warming. So they can move. further and further north and all of a. sudden these plants that are native to. tropical zones are ending up in areas. where it's um you know not necessarily a. tropical zone. Uh I can't remember which. zone. Atlanta is. >> Atlanta's um 7B and 8A. >> seven I love that you know that stuff. Uh but the point is like these um these. like uh kill kill frosts that you might. get that happen to I love that name kill.

frost. >> Uh like it'll get really cold and frost. over and like kill things maybe that. shouldn't be there. if that's happening. less and less and there's even less in. the way of those tropical plants moving. northward, >> right? And so they I guess. climatologists are expecting that by the. end of the century, which seems like a. long way away, but buddy that's like. less than that's like eight decades, 70. something years, maybe even 77 you could. say to be exact. But in 77 years, climatologists expect.

all of Florida, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, and California, I'm guessing the. southern half to be tropical. Those are. subtropical. Now, if you want an example. of what a tropical um country is, go to. Ecuador. >> Go to um Guatemala. Those are tropical. and Alabama and Arizona are going to be. like Guatemala by the end of the. century. >> Yeah,

>> that's insane. >> I know. It's really uh And it's. happening. It's not like um like they. they they've shown that it's currently. happening. >> Yes. And it's happening because like you. were saying, those extreme cold events. are becoming rarer and they're becoming. warmer. So the coldest day of the year. is not as cold as it used to be. In. other words, >> I think the scientific term is killrost. >> I love that. That is definitely a band. name. >> Oh, for sure. Like what are they though? >> Kill. Oh, um I don't know. They could be.

>> some kind of heavy or something, right? >> I don't know. Remember Destroyer? They. were great. They didn't really They had. like kind of like a a belying name. You. know what I mean? >> No, that's true. >> So, it could be like that. >> I think he named the band that uh for. that reason as a bit of a. tongue-in-cheek thing, maybe. >> I I knew I like that guy. >> Yeah. Uh Beahar is who we're talking. about, not Joy. Uh Tony. >> Tony Bayart. >> No, it's uh Dan, I think, right? >> I don't know. I just know a couple of. destroyer songs. I don't have to know.

the guy's life story, do I? >> Well, [laughter]. settle down. Uh no, I wanted to look it. up because he is uh he's also a. part-time member of uh maybe my favorite. alltime uh band, The New Pornographers. Like modern band. >> Oh, yeah. >> Yeah. He's he's on most of their albums, but hasn't done the past few. Who was. the singer for New Pornographers? Was it. Nico Casease? >> Well, she sings and Carl Newman sings. and also the great Katherine Calder, who.

is a stuff you should know listener. >> Oh, neat. Oh, wow. >> Yeah. Awesome. >> I found that out and I was like, "Oh, I. got to get in touch with her." And I did. and now we are email buddies. and on the. last uh new pornographer show in. Atlanta, she was kind enough to meet me. behind the bus as they say. >> uh in the back parking lot and we. chatted for a while and she's just. wonderful. And uh she also I'm going to. plug her other band cuz she has uh put. out a great album uh last year with her. band Front Person.

>> So get Front Person. If you like Cynthy. Goodness. >> and like a beautiful angelic voice, then. get Front Person. Speaking of synthy. goodness, it's so funny you bring that. up. Just today, I discovered an entirely. new genre of music called dungeon synth. Have you heard of it? >> What? No. >> Okay. Okay. It's the a really well-named. genre, but it is synth. Super like. synthy synth, like 80s kind of synth. >> I love it. But the kind of scent that.

you would find is like the the the score. to a 70s Hobbit mo like cartoon movie, animated movie. >> It's super wizardy and fantasy. It it. just evokes all that stuff and it does. such a good job of it. But I've only. heard one album. I can't remember whose. it was, but check out. >> Kill Frost. Check out Dungeon Synth. Yeah, Kill Frost is a Dungeon Synth. band. Nice work. >> All right. Dungeon Synth and the Front. Person album, uh, their most recent one,

Parade, is great. >> Very nice. I think it's full stop. >> Time for a, uh, break. >> Yeah, let's take a break. We'll be back. with more album reviews right after. this. [music]. [music]. [music]. >> [music].

>> So Chuck, one thing you can say about. humans is that we are actionoriented. [laughter]. >> Sure. >> In a lot of ways, I will give you that. we sit around and bicker and and. complain and moan and and undermine one. another. >> But when the chips are down, we can. invent our way out of a lot of problems. And invention doesn't have to. necessarily mean that we um you know put. some metal on metal and made it go on. its own. It can be something like.

inventing new areas for species that are. in danger of of being lost to climate. change to settle and and make another. part of their range out of. >> Well, sir, it sounds like you were. talking about forest assisted migration. >> By God, I am. >> That's right. And that is basically uh. and we'll talk about the good, the bad, and the ugly of this. That is human. beings, scientists getting involved in. the ecosystem and nature and. spreading seed and sort of getting ahead.

of the pace uh if the pace isn't where. it should be to keep up with climate. change, saying, "Well, let me give you a. little little help forward." Mhm. >> Uh, and this is can be kind of thorny. because it's um. it's humans like I said getting involved. in the ecosystem in ways that science. has long said let nature work it out and. that's the best way to do it because you. don't know what can happen once you. start messing around. >> Yeah. Like nature finds a way. >> It does. These guys are saying, the.

people who are in favor of this are. saying that made sense before July 2023, which is probably the the hottest month. in Earth's history, at least as far as. since it cooled, basically. >> And that followed the hottest June ever, right? So they they're these ecologists. that are like, "No, we need to to take. much more of a active hand in this are. saying like it's our obligation to do. something. not doing anything is going. to be more destructive. It's like saying.

like, "Yeah, we shouldn't move these. people out of this house that's being. bulldozed over because we don't know. what they're going to do in their new. neighborhood, so we're just going to. stand there and watch them die as the. bulldozer crushes them inside of their. house." That's the that's a pretty good. analogy if I do congratulate myself here. that it's very much akin to that. And so. those ecologists have a pretty good. point. Like it's like, yeah, it's not a. great perfect solution, but it's way. better than doing nothing. >> Yeah. But and they're not they're not.

doing it willy-nilly, though. They're. very aware of the potential pitfalls. like, you know, spreading disease and. introducing something to an area that. could be really bad for other things in. that area. So, they're not just out. there, you know, with a seed cannon. blasting stuff all over the place like. uh like Dolph Lungren or something. >> wearing bike coat shorts. [laughter]. Um there's a couple of different kinds. though. Uh there's there's uh forest. assisted migration. The one that's.

really sort of thorny is assisted rains. uh range expansion. So like if you're in. if you're spreading something within the. zone where it might still normally grow. uh in like 200 years, that's one thing. If you're moving something completely. out of that range, like, you know, they. do forecasting and stuff and they're. like, "What might this area look like a. hundred miles from here, 100 years from. now?" Uh, if they're moving something. completely out of a range that it would. even potentially grow, that gets way way. trickier. And I think there's less of.

that happening, right? >> Yeah. Yes, for sure. It like But you hit. it on the head. They're they're saying. like, "Okay, by 2100, what is this area. going to be like? Is it going to be like. where these red oaks like to live now in. 2023? And if so, maybe we can give them. a head start and hope that some of them. will survive and adapt and start. colonizing there, right? >> It gets even pricklier than assisted. range expansion. There's another even. more radical one called [clears throat]. species rescue or assisted species.

migration. And that is where you take a. a plant completely out of its normal. range, out of what you would even. predict would be its normal range and. just move it somewhere it would never. be. >> Right? >> This is considered the riskiest um of. the three by ecologists because you can. easily take something that's totally. innocuous and benign under normal. circumstances and make it into an. invasive species when you move it. And. the critics of this typically point to.

the Monterey pine as a good example. >> Yeah, that's right. It's endangered in. California. Uh it is native to. California, but they have introduced it. in Australia and it's it's I don't know. about wreaking havoc, but but it's. damaging the uh uh it's an invasive. species in Australia. >> Yeah, for sure. They consider it a weed. and when they see it, they pluck it. Um. they do not like those in New South. Wales and Victoria, I believe, states. Now that's a weed, [laughter]. >> right?

>> I don't know. >> That's okay. >> Wasn't my best. >> No, I'm gonna have to agree with you on. that. I think you just you just came up. with a brand new type of accent, frankly. >> Yeah. >> Can we hear it again? >> No. >> Okay. [laughter] I'm just going to go. back and replay it. >> You know what's funny though is I use uh. my uh the lady on my phone that talks to. me. What's it called on Apple? >> Uh Siri. >> Siri, I guess. I don't use Siri, but I. um I still have a voice for maps and. stuff, and I use a I usually go between. an Irish woman and a a Kiwi, a New.

Zealander. >> Oh, yeah. >> And the New Zealander says, "Ry," and it. always cracks me up. >> That sound like Matthew McConna. >> It does. At the next street, take a. ride. [laughter]. >> I got to hear that. >> Yeah. >> I didn't know you could do something. that g whiz to an Apple iPhone. Make it. talk like. >> some some regular old thing. I don't do. like sounds digital sounds are one of. those like I don't have misophonia but. if I do it's for digital sounds like. when I get a new computer the first.

thing I do is turn off all sounds on it. like anything have to go like I have to. change my text sound every month or so. because I'll just get like anxiety from. it. I can't stand text sounds so I have. to come up with a new one. I do not like. them. Well, do you know what I do is I. record uh I record my own text and phone. rings and stuff. >> Oh, yeah. >> Yeah. I record my voice. Like when my. phone rings, I never have my ringer on, but if it ever does, it's me going ring. ring ring ring. [laughter]. >> That's awesome.

>> And if I get a text, it's me going text, man. >> That's great. >> Yeah. I get strange looks, but who. cares? >> Can I just use yours? >> Yeah, I'll send them to you if you want. >> Thank you. >> Yeah. Or you can uh like you can make. one specific for Yumi, which is like. maybe just her sweet voice saying, "Hello, hello, my love.". >> I used to have a ring tone with her. singing that part from um what's love. got to do with it. That. >> Yeah, exactly. >> Hello. But she just kept saying that. over and over again. It was pretty. great. >> Oh, I'd love to hear that. That's also. kind of maddening.

>> Yeah. No, it never was. Actually, I. never got sick of that one. I think that. says a lot. >> But it's better than. >> Yeah, man. and you just stressed me out. >> Sorry. >> You got anything else? >> Uh, no. I had a joke about your dislike. of digital sounds, but your love of. craft work flies in the face of that. But I I won't even say it. >> That's more a statement than a joke. >> Yeah, >> but it is true. It's quite accurate. >> I think that's it, Chuck. >> Yeah, I got nothing else. This is uh.

this is a good one. Look out. You know, if you're in um if you're in New Mexico. and you see a palm tree growing, then. watch out. [music]. >> That's right. It means that you've gone. tropical and you're in trouble now. >> Yeah. And not in a good way. >> Uh if you uh want to know more about. plant migration, there's a lot of. interesting stuff out there on the. internet to read and go do that and. maybe go become an ecologist and figure. out how to save the [music] planet. Please agree. >> Since Chuck said agreed, it's time for. listener mail.

>> Uh this is from William Lloyd. We did a. shorty on the NATO. um phonetic alphabet. And what we didn't consider was this. Uh, hey guys, being a pilot in prior air. force, I was glad that you did one on. this topic. [music] It's not a. correction. Uh, you guys did a good job, but you missed what I think is the best. part, the numbers. Uh, the NATO alphabet. is kind of a misnomer because it. actually also includes numbers 0 through. 9, but you can't really make a word.

starting from a number. So, it's purely. pronunciation. Uh, most numbers are the. same with the notal notable exception of. niner. Uh we use niner instead of nine because. over garbled radio it sounds like five. but mainly because NATO countries speak. German. Uh nine means no in German. >> Nice. >> Uh three is pronounced tree uh to not be. confused with the antiquated prefix uh s. r i. Uh four [music] is two syllable uh.

syllables rhymes with lower. So you. would say fer sounds kind of funny uh to. differentiate it from [music] you know. fo r and uh five is f to keep the word. fire distinct in some dialects. >> Huh. All right. >> This is good stuff. I I feel dumb that. we missed that. Um that's all. interesting, but you're probably [music]. thinking, does anyone actually say it. like that? It depends. Niner is pretty. universal. Uh plus [music] we think it. it makes us sound cool, which it does, of course. Uh, the rest are much less. common, but depending where you are in.

the world and what dialects are. involved, [music] they're useful from. time to time. Uh, signed Tailwinds. Decker. >> That's awesome. And also, what a [music]. great nickname, too. I hope that's your. nickname. Your parents didn't actually. name you Tailwinds. >> Well, no, no, no. Decker is the name. Tailwinds was [music] the uh. >> Oh, the sign off. >> Yeah, >> the Cheers or the one love. >> Yeah, exactly. >> So, Decker is the first name. >> Well, I don't know. It's just a Decker. Decker may be a call sign actually. >> All right. Well, I I love that. Thanks.

[music] a lot, Decker. Much appreciated. I say Niner whenever the occasion. arises, you know. >> I like that. You know, our our good. friend Joe Randazzo, >> uh, formerly of The Onion and at. Midnight Fame, our our comedy writer. [music] friend, uh, he signs his emails. uh, yours with a comma. Joe Joe Rendez. >> That's great. That's very warm. >> I think yours is. Yeah, it's very, very. [music] warm. As is Joe. >> Sure. It's perfect for him. And as. always, hi to the kids. >> Yeah, >> Joe's kids who [music] listen.

>> Yeah, the Randzos. >> They're listening family. >> The flying randos. They're a trapeze. artist family just waiting to happen. >> They should be. >> Well, we'll see. A lot's going to happen. by the end of the century, apparently. So, who knows? >> That's right. >> Well, if you want to get in touch with. us like Decker did [music] and confuse. me with your sign off, uh, I'd. appreciate it. So would Chuck, too. He. loves that kind of thing. [music] Uh, you can wrap it up, spank it on the. bottom, and send it off to Stuffpodcast@. iheartradio.com. [music].

Stuff You Should Know is a production of. iHeart Radio. [music] For more podcasts, iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio. app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you. [music] listen to your favorite shows.