Selects: Mangroves: Nature's Best Tree? | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW

Hi, everyone. I hope you're enjoying. your Saturday morning and your weekend. so far, and I hope this episode makes it. a little bit better because it's about. one of my favorite trees, the mangrove. I discovered mangroves in person when I. went to. coastal Mexico for the first time. And. I'll tell you what, I fell in love with. these things. They are amazing. Uh. mangroves, colon, nature's best tree. I think so. Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a. production [music] of iHeart Radio.

>> [music]. >> Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm. Josh, and there's Chuck, and there's. Jerry over there. So, let's get to it. while we're talking about mangroves, everybody. Mangroves, [music] gather. around while we talk about mangroves. My new favorite tree. It's a great tree. It's a good favorite tree to have. It. is, and this is one of those I think. this is the second and probably final. that was inspired by my recent trip to.

Mexico because. uh we were surrounded. by mangroves. Literally surrounded by. mangroves. And we couldn't get enough of. them, man. Like, riding the bikes around. and looking in these mangrove forests. Mhm. And considering what it must be. like to try and navigate through them. Nearly impossible, I would say. Uh cuz yeah, I mean, you've seen them in. person, I'm sure, like just how dense. these things are. Uh.

and you know, we're going to be talking. about different kinds, but really sort. of the money mangroves Sure. are the. ones that we're going to focus on, and. they're just I was knocked out just by. how they looked, and I could tell that. they were a remarkable wonder of nature. and evolution. And then, after this. stuff, uh Dave Roos helped us put this. together after learning everything that. they're capable of, Mhm. it's just like, what. what kind of tree is this? It's amazing. It's an amazing tree. Like I said, it's. maybe one of the best trees to have as.

your favorite tree because there are. very few trees that are this amazing, Chuck. Man. And we're talking mangroves, and we. should say mangroves aren't necessarily. like a species or even a family of tree. One of the other things that makes them. such a cool tree to have as a favorite. is that there's something like 80 or 90. species of them, and they're not. genetically related in every case. Instead, biologists classify them by. their ability to survive and even thrive. in salty water.

that uh in soil that has little to no. oxygen, which are two things that most. trees can't do. And that's just the tip. of the iceberg in what makes um. mangroves so amazing. Yeah, but like I. said, we're talking mainly about those. amazing trees that sit up above the. water Mhm. with this network of uh. you know, look like fingers just sort of. propping up the tree, which are the. roots. Um they are a. woodland tree, uh also could be called a shrub. And.

they grow in a pretty narrow area uh. between um. Well, they're subtropical along the. coastlines, first of all. Right. >> grow between literally between um the. terrestrial and the marine environment. in salty brackish water. Yeah. Um and there's I want to say a lot of. them. It's really not, though. I think they. make up like 1% of the forests of the. world, mangrove forests are. But it's. still 85,000 square miles, which is a. pretty decent amount of area uh for, you.

know, one kind of tree. It's about the. size of the state of Arkansas. Um and the largest mangrove forest in. the world is at the mouth of the Ganges. um near the Bay of Bengal. It's called. the Sundarbans. And that's where the. Bengal tiger lives, which is pretty. cool. Agreed. Uh they exist in 118 countries. Mhm. And here in the United States, in. Texas, Louisiana, and Florida. And I thought, oh, surely the Georgia.

coast so close to Florida, surely. they've got some mangroves. Don't even. try. Not quite. There I did see some. people that were like, oh, some. mangroves. Um but it's not true. It looks like the. closest mangroves are about 40 miles. from the Georgia border near the Georgia. coastline. Mhm. Um so, I was really sad. that we don't have our our mangroves. That is sad. But they do have them in. Florida and Louisiana and Texas and in. Mexico. That's right. [laughter]. And again, you said that they grow.

subtropically. And Chuck, I want to. share that [snorts] it was just today. that I finally stopped and was like, this subtropical thing is driving me. crazy. Like, it's it's above the tropics on. either side. It's either above or below, depending on where your perspective it. but it's not below it's not below the. equator. And then I realized, if you're. on the equator from the perspective of. the equator, it's below the equator on. either side. So, it's subtropical. >> Uh you've never stood on the equator. I.

never have, and I think I should. >> [laughter]. >> I've never been to Ecuador. Well, we should go sometime. We should. go a podcast live live from the equator. Yeah, and see if we melt. I know I will. Yeah, I would, too. >> I'm melting this week. Um as far as man, the money mangroves that I was talking. about, we're talking about red, black, and white. And for my money, uh I love. those red mangroves. Those are the ones. that grow along the water's edge. Uh. they have those prop roots that And if.

you've never seen a mangrove mangrove, please just look up red mangrove. Mhm. Uh and they're called prop roots cuz. they prop that tree up off the ground. They are fully Well, not fully exposed. cuz they also go into the water into the. soil, but uh they're largely exposed, and they are. just tangled gnarly beautiful roots that. again uh I can't imagine trying to. navigate through a mangrove forest. You. probably had to go around. Yeah, it can be really really thick um.

both above water and below water because. of those roots. So, those roots um if. you see them, that means that it's low. tide. At high tide, they're usually. covered up with water. But it's like you. said, they prop the tree up. And so, for. that reason, because at low tide you can. see the bottom of the tree and it's. above ground, um they're sometimes. called walking trees. But they're pretty. neat. And the red mangrove is I think. anyone who knows about mangroves or has. seen a mangrove probably is what they're. thinking of as a red mangrove because. they're just those those roots are just.

so characteristic and unusual, you know? Yeah, the black mangroves are still. really cool-looking because they have. these um protrusions coming up out of. the water uh called pneumatophores, and. just, you know, put a pin in this. They. but they allow the plant to basically. breathe, and we'll talk about that. later. But if if you look at a picture. of these, it looks sort of like almost. like little just spiky roots sticking up. out of the ground all around the tree. Yeah, almost like stalagmites. Yeah.

Um and I got that right, too, by the. way. That's right. Um white mangroves. are it's weird. I I don't understand. fully why they're considered mangroves. aside from the fact that they must still. thrive in brackish or salty water and. poor um poor oxygen soil. That's it. >> But I guess so, but they grow inland, and they have normal shallow root. systems like any other terrestrial tree. But they're still considered mangroves. >> [snorts]. >> Yeah, and I don't think I mentioned the.

black mangroves do grow a little bit. further inland than the reds. Yeah, so if you are, you know, looking. at a cross-section of the ocean hitting. the land and going inland, you would see. at the ocean or at the the bay or. wherever, um. red mangroves on the shoreline actually. growing into the ocean, depending on. where the tide is. Behind them, you. would have the black mangroves on. slightly higher ground. And then behind. those, on the highest ground, you would.

have the white mangroves, and that's. what it would look like. You put it all. together, what you have is a mangrove. forest, also known as a mangal. A mangal, which is. uh. one of the more amazing We're going to. be talking about a lot of amazing things. about mangroves and mangals, but. it's the only species of tree that can. grow in salt water. Um and big time. They grow It's not like. they love the salt. We'll see in a. minute, they have a some great ways of. getting rid of it. Um but they figured. all that stuff out, but they can grow in.

salinity levels of. 75 parts per thousand, which is about. twice as salty as ocean water. Yeah. That's pretty impressive because. I mean, where are they growing that. that's twice as salty as ocean water, you know? I think it's just kind of. showing off at that point. >> [laughter]. >> Well, I didn't know if like that inland. water like just accumulate salt or. something. Yeah, I I would Yeah, you might be. right. Yeah, yeah, I think you've hit. upon it. Okay, so they're not show-offs.

They're just doing what they've got to. do. They're They're making They're. making lemonade out of the lemons that. that they were handed by natural. selection for where they grow. So, what about the salt? How do they get. rid of it? So, you would think like they just they. can drink salt water and use it like, you know, terrestrial trees use water. Not true. There's actually two. techniques where they can either um keep. salt from entering their roots or they. can take the salt in and then get rid of. it in certain ways. And so, that means.

that there's two types, secretors and. non-secretors. And black mangroves are. secretors, I believe, right? That's. right. Uh those are the ones with the. little knobby They look like sticks. almost sticking out of the water. Mhm. Uh they filter it out, and they secrete. it on the leaves. So, that means. if you see a black mangrove and you see. some, you know, kind of chalky white. stuff on the leaf, that is salt. Like, go I I know if I should say go lick at. cuz I don't know if that's dangerous at. all, but. >> [laughter]. >> it's it's salty. Just trust me. It.

tastes like salt and DDT. Gosh. Um red mangroves, they're. they're non-secretors. So, they actually. just don't allow salt to be taken up by. the roots. Now, that's easier said than done. because their roots are planted in the. water, right? So, there's water they're. taking up water from the ocean from salt. water. And what they do is they have cell walls. that actually act through reverse. osmosis. It lets water through, but it.

doesn't let solids through. Which is. quite a trick. I mean, that's something. that humans have only recently figured. out how to do. Mangroves have been doing. it for who knows how many hundreds of. thousands or millions of years. But, they do it in part because they. have this hydrophobic lipophilic. material called suberin that really. serves them well. That's right. It allows them to get rid. of more than 90% of the salts in the. water. Uh which also means which I didn't. really think about until just now that. they can they can literally tolerate I.

guess about 10% salt content. Yeah, I. saw 90 to 95% but yeah, that's still a. lot of salt for a plant. Totally. Yeah, so they have at least. adapted in some ways to to tolerate salt. more than other plants. But, for the. most part they're just really good at. at keeping salt from being taken up by. their roots. I just find that. fascinating. Uh and I love how Dave puts these he he. sections are labeled either mangrove. magic tricks.

or what was the other one? Mangrove. superpowers. Yeah. >> [laughter]. >> Which is pretty fun. They're both apt. They are. So, this is magic trick number. two. is we mentioned you know, I mentioned. earlier that they actually breathe. through these. roots. I think typically you might like to. think about plants as. you know, just eating up that CO2 which. they definitely do. But, plants need. oxygen and they need to get oxygen from. the roots. And and you know, with a.

regular tree in a regular forest, they're getting that like through the. soil and these little gaps between the. soil. Uh in mangrove or mangals I guess you. would say, they can't do that because the tidal. sediments come in and it's all. waterlogged and compacted. So, they. don't have those air gaps that you have. in a normal forest. So, they kind of. came up with a brilliant little trick to. get around that, right? Yeah, so the pneumatophores that black. mangroves have those stalagmites.

that are coming up in in spikes around. them, those act as snorkels. So, they. stick up out of the water and they're. covered in these little cells called. lenticels and they're that's where. oxygen exchange happens. So, they. actually absorb oxygen through these. snorkels. They get taken into the. snorkel underground into the other roots. of the tree. and used for. aerobic respiration which is converting. food into energy which is pretty nuts.

And pneumatophore actually is Greek for. air carrier, so Makes sense. Pretty on. the nose. Yeah, some of those pneumatophores can. reach up to 10 ft tall. Did you see. that? Yeah, I I didn't. I looked at a lot of pictures. I didn't. see any that tall with my eyeballs, but. I looked cuz I wanted to see that. Yeah, I didn't see it either. Could be made. up. Uh so, then you've got this. I don't think so. Um then you've got these red mangroves. that we talked about for my money like. the money mangrove and those prop roots.

serve the same purpose as the. pneumatophores. They you know, like I. said they sit up on those long sort of. curvy stilts. and they stay above water like a lot of. it stays above water even at high tide. at times and they're also covered with. those lenticels and they do the same. thing. They allow for that oxygen. exchange to take place. Yeah, so that. explains also why there's so many roots. and so many pneumatophores that that. spread around these trees. It's like if.

you dug up a tree of roughly the same. size, it would probably have a similar. sized root structure, maybe a little. less, but you don't see it. It's all. underground. This is above ground. So, it like looks like a lot of roots and it. is a lot of roots, but it's not. necessarily more than a terrestrial tree. would have. We just don't see them. Yeah, it's like a tree that has dropped. trial. >> [laughter]. >> It's exactly right. It's Porky Pig in. it. Should we should we take a break at.

mangrove magic trick number two? Leading into number three. Yeah, we'll. come back with number three right after. this. >> [music]. [music]. >> So, Chuck, which mangrove is your favorite kind?

Well, I think I've been clear. >> [laughter]. >> I know you're teasing me. Cuz me and my red mangrove tirades. To. me, this is the best. part of the episode and the most amazing. thing that may besides and we'll get to. carbon sequestration cuz that's amazing, too. But, to me this just knocked my socks. off that mangroves. kind of give birth to baby mangroves. I think the only reason you want to.

qualify it with kind of is because our. mind rails against accepting [laughter]. that that's what's going on. But, that. is what's going on for all intents and. purposes that some mangroves are. viviparous meaning that it means live. bearing to where they have seeds on. their on their. plants that they develop. They're about. acorn sized. But, then rather than the. seed falling off and dispersing and then. eventually growing into a seedling, something much more mind-blowing happens. with mangroves. That's right. The.

seedling is actually produced on the. tree itself. And they. they sort of not sort of. I keep. qualifying it. They self-plant. themselves. Yeah. Eventually this thing. is going to fall off. You've got to look. up the video on the internet. There are. many out there where it shows these you. know, acorn-like things. They grow down. to these sort of long arrow like you. know, green arrows that are pointing. down and eventually they just go boop.

and they snap off and they go straight. down and they either stick into the. ground at low tide or I saw them in 2 ft. of ocean water just going straight. through and sticking into the sand and. they plant themselves. They do. They. they plant themselves in that sandy. bottom and then they sprout roots really. fast. I saw that they can start growing. roots within hours. Which means that also if they don't fall. straight down, if they fall and they. land on their side, they can actually. stand themselves up by growing roots on.

the ground-facing side and then grow. roots on the other side as well which is. pretty amazing. What's even more amazing. is that if they they fall they happen to. fall at like high tide and it's pretty. deep and they never touch the bottom in. any way, they'll float along. They'll go. out to sea and as they're out to sea, they're a little tree growing like. growing leaves, getting water from the. the ocean, doing photosynthesis in the. sunlight and they can float around for. up to a year before they make land and.

stand themselves up and grow roots. wherever they land. >> [laughter]. >> It's just unbelievable because this was. an evolutionary adaptation. cuz my first thought was well, why don't. why doesn't the acorn-like seed just. fall into the water and float around, but it must have just not been able to. survive and got waterlogged and died and. and adapted to grow on the tree itself. and get that little seedling started. Yeah, because think about this, Chuck. A.

seedling is a small viable tree. All it. has everything it needs to grow. So, it's an individual organism and when the. the the. the mangrove is growing the seedling on. its tree on itself, that's gestation cuz. when it drops off, it's like a giraffe. dropping a baby out like three or four. feet above. above the ground. It's the same thing. It's gestation. It's a live birth of a. plant. It's nuts, man. I love it. And. the baby giraffe sticks its nose into.

the ground and it's. and grows from there for months and. months. Plant some roots out of its head. and there you go. Uh let's talk about the mangals a little. bit. We've talked about the fact that. these forests are very dense, but it is. an. a dense ecosystem that is dense in more. ways than one. It's not just all these. gnarly roots that you see everywhere. There are all kinds of fish habitats and. wildlife habitats that exist in these. mangals. Yeah, one of the reason why these like.

root systems and why the the above water. parts of the trees are all just so. thick like you were saying it's so hard. to get through is because of the way. that they drop seedlings right off of. their tree right around them. So, these. mangals develop into these really thick. deposits of trees and shrubs above water. and below water because they grow so. closely together. And as they grow, they. migrate one way or another or they just. spread out one way or another. Sometimes. toward the ocean, sometimes behind them,

sometimes to either side of the shore, but that's how they they grow and that's. why they're so dense, too. Uh and that. provides a lot of protection for these. habitats. There are all manner of fish. If you're. in Florida, you're going to see gray snapper in. there or well, you probably won't see. them. Snook, tarpon. This is pretty remarkable. The goliath. grouper. which is actually endangered, spends. their first 6 years in that mangal. before it goes to open water. Yeah, and it's not just like a few kinds.

of fish, like things like octopi, sharks, shrimp, mollusks, just tons of. different kinds of fish. Like this is. their nursery ground because these. roots, these tangle of roots provide a. place for juveniles to like hide out of. reach of predators and get bigger and. bigger because it's also very nourishing. place for them to eat, too. So, they're. they're really really important as. nurseries for all kinds of sea life. Yeah, and if you're talking about eating.

seafood, the commercial fishing industry, and. this just sort of. shows you how important these mangals. are. A 1 square mile loss of mangrove forest. would lose about 275,000. lb of fish every year. And then that's not even to speak of all. the indigenous communities that. that are, you know, rely on these fish. to provide their sustenance. Right, and so that's just the below. water part of the mangal. The above.

water part of the mangal basically does. the same thing, but for terrestrial and. arboreal animals like monkeys, insects, reptiles, birds, they make their home and their. nurseries in those the mangals, too. The. the branches, the leaves, the trunks. Those are really just as important for. above ground animals as they are for. below water animals. Yeah, and you. mentioned that Bengal tiger. This was also. in the Sundarbans, right?

Yes. And this is the largest single. population of Bengal tigers on planet. Earth, and it's only about 100 of them, but they live in these in these mangals. Yes, and also attention Kristen Bell. If. you are ambivalent about mangrove. forests, prepare to care. Because in. Panama, the pygmy three-toed sloth, critically endangered by the way, only. makes its home in mangrove forests down. there. >> That's right.

So, you got to care now. I still watch. that video of her and that sloth about. once every 2 years. Yeah, it's. [laughter] a good one. It's just one of. the great human reactions to something. Yeah, and I remember how heartened we. were when we realized that she didn't. touch it, even though you she clearly. wanted to more than she's ever wanted to. do anything in her life, but [laughter]. she doesn't she didn't do it, you know? So, good for her. It's pretty great. I think we can move on to some. superpowers, right? Yeah, mangrove superpower number one, which is coastline protection, which is. pretty important if you live along the.

coast. Yeah, this is a big one. One. great benefit of all those above ground. gnarly mess of roots that are everywhere. is, and it just makes perfect common. sense when you look at them, is they. make great wave breaks. Any kind of wave, even. like a tsunami. Is that a word? It is now. I think it's a great word. Right, tsunami's wave. is going to be cut down big time when it. hits this stuff. It's just going to, you.

know, just cut through and disperse it. in a really profound way. Yeah, because there's so many different. like roots and individual things to bump. into on the way to the shore that it's. going to reduce its energy, which means that it reduces one of the. pernicious effects that waves have on. shore, which is erosion. And not only does it reduce erosion. because the waves don't have enough. energy to take stuff back out to sea, it. actually has them deposit the sediments. that they're bringing to the shore in.

the mangrove swamps. And if you compare. if you combine that, I should say, with. the really. low oxygen. environments that make up the mucky. bottom in a mangrove mangal, you. I guess you can kind of flashback to our. coal, the mystery of coal episode where. we talked a lot about how swamps work. like that. >> So, mangrove. >> [clears throat]. >> swamps are very much like that as well, but then in addition to that, they have. ocean sediments being brought all this. organic stuff being brought from the.

oceans layering with the the mucky. sediment that from the mangroves falling. into the muck, which means that they're like holding on. to a lot of stuff and building up soil. as a matter of fact. So much so that. they outpaces sea level rises in some. areas. Yeah, I mean this kind of falls under. one of their other superpowers is the. fact that they are literally. sequestering carbon. Mhm. But I think. that they they add about, and we'll get. to that in more detail in a minute, but.

in Australia, some mangrove or some. mangals in Australia and Belize add. about 10 mm or more. of coastal soil each year. Which. >> of a meter. Yeah, I mean that doesn't. sound like that much, but sea level rise. is coming in at about 3.2 m a year. So, in parts of Australia and Belize, it is. actually outpacing climate change. Yeah, that's pretty cool. And that's really. really important because as sea levels. rise, if the soil level is rising, we. don't have to worry quite as much about.

sea level rise there. But that's only in. some spots, as we'll see. Yeah, and as. far as the waves go, and we're talking about tsunamis, well, with just regular waves, for every. 100 m of a mangrove forest that a wave. will hit, its height can decrease by as. much as 66%. Wow. And if you're looking at storm. surges, which is, you know, one of the. big dangers, it's not just the wave, it's that that water surge, if you. listen to our tsunami episode.

There was a study that found that storm. surge depths. were reduced about a little over a foot. and a half for every little more than a. half a mile, 50 cm over every kilometer. And that doesn't sound like a ton, but. if you've got mangrove forest that's, you know, several miles deep, then we're. talking, you know, 6 or 7 ft of. less storm surge happening, and that can. make a really big difference in. flooding. Oh, yeah, because the storm.

surge is what gets you. I mean, it it. can flood miles and miles inland. It. carries all sorts of debris with it. It. has so much energy, it can just rip. buildings down. It's a real problem from. hurricanes. It's that flooding that from. the storm surge, but because those. mangroves are there to absorb a bunch of. that energy, it just doesn't have the. opportunity to come nearly as far. inland. So, mangrove forests, especially. thick ones, save human lives, and you. would guess animal lives, too. Yeah, and.

we've seen the sort of the this bear out. in very sad ways when mangrove forests. have disappeared. I think it was in the Indo-Pacific. region in the 1950s, they used to have. about 5 miles like deep of mangrove. forest. By the 1990s, they were depleted. because of shrimp farming. We'll talk. about that later as well. But basically, you know, human-caused depletion. And in '91, there was a cyclone that hit. the coast of Bangladesh where there were.

no longer any mangrove forests to cut. down on that impact. And there was no. buffer, and there was a big 20-ft storm. surge, and almost 140,000 people died. Right. I saw I saw that. they had a lot of those people die. because they weren't they didn't use. storm shelters in addition to the. mangrove buffer being gone. And that. they had built the storm shelters, Chuck, after a 1970 cyclone that killed. 500,000.

people in Bangladesh. >> Wow. Can you believe that? Can you. imagine a storm killing half a million. people in your country or your little. area? That's insane. It is. That's. devastating. They did. >> you know? Yeah. They did some studies, too, with um. the tsunami in the Indian Ocean in 2004, and they found that the the mangroves. there were about 100 m deep, and they. at least helped reduce those waves.

between 5 and 30%. So, that's that's a. big deal, you know, 6 ft of storm surge. up to 30% of wave height in the initial. rush in from the ocean is. you're saving a lot of lives in that. case. Yeah. And I mean, you saw how bad the the. Indian Ocean tsunami was, too. It just. makes you wonder like how much worse it. could have been without mangroves. So, I say we take our second break, and. we come back and talk about carbon. sequestration. That's right. AKA superpower number two.

>> [music]. [music]. >> All right, we had promise of superpower. number two. And we teased a little bit early earlier. I did about carbon sequestration. Mhm.

So, we need to talk a little bit about. what people are calling a blue carbon. ecosystem, blue sort of referencing the. ocean. Yeah, it's it's basically the same thing. like, you know, trees inland capturing. carbon and storing them in their their. bits and parts. This is this is just. coastal vegetation doing the same thing. And the thing is is like trees,

they're really efficient at capturing. carbon and storing it, but because of. our friends fungi and rot, when the tree dies, that carbon gets. released back into the ecosystem and. even possibly back into the atmosphere. if, say, like a wildfire happens, right? >> atmosphere. >> [laughter]. >> Hot Wheels. That is right. But you know we mentioned. before that. with that soil that the water is. basically the ocean water is just. sitting on top of. it is not it's just building up to that.

salty peat and that carbon is not being. released like it does in a terrestrial. forest. Yeah. And it's not breaking. down. So it is a champion at storing. carbon. Not only good at it but really. good at it. Yeah. It's like the Judah Friedlander of. forests as far as carbon sequestration. goes. >> [laughter]. >> I. I love Judah Friedlander. We actually. met him once but I don't get the joke. Oh, he always wore a hat that said world. champion. >> Oh, okay.

>> [laughter]. >> And he was always boasting about stuff. like that. >> Yeah, yeah. I love that guy. When we we. met him at a event with Jesse Thorn and. Hodgman many years ago. And this is kind of during his run on uh. 30 Rock 30 Rock and this this is when I. was I was also wearing my last chance. garage hat all the time. Uh which I haven't put on in a couple of. years. I hate to say so. Probably a few years. Um. but he I remember when I met him he went. and in that face of his he kind of. peered up at my hat and that patch and.

he went all right, okay, cool. >> [laughter]. >> That was a great Judah Friedlander. impression. >> like hey, I got the stamp of approval. from the hat guy. Yeah, definitely the. hat guy for sure. It was cool. So but yeah, so mangroves are are the. champion of carbon sequestration. So. much so that they are four times more. efficient than terrestrial vegetation at. storing carbon which makes them like a. bonafide carbon sink mangrove forests. are. And again, it's because there's. just no decay. There's no fungus.

There's no rot. All the stuff that all. the vegetation that dies and falls down. into the muck just gets stuck there and. covered over and doesn't get a chance to. break down. So as long as you don't dig. up or destroy a mangrove forest and cut. up the peat to use it as as cheap fuel, you've got a really good carbon sink on. your hands. Yeah, to the tune of. worldwide mangals account for about 6.4. billion tons of carbon that's being held.

in check. That means when you do do. something like you hinted at it can have. devastating effects for the world. Surprise, surprise. If you cut down a. mangrove forest, that carbon is going to. be released. That sequestered carbon is. slowly going to creep back into the. atmosphere. From 2000 to 2015 roughly 122 million. tons of carbon. extra carbon were released into the. atmosphere because of the destruction of. mangrove forests. and.

between 80 and 2000 30% of the mangals. of the world have been stripped away. and it is outpacing like the tropical. rainforest destruction. That's. mind-boggling because if you just hear. the figures on how how frequently and. how much rainforest is cut down. the idea that mangrove forests is. outpacing it is pretty nuts. But. apparently [clears throat]. Myanmar. is the the current hotspot for mangrove. deforestation.

Between 1996 and 2016 Myanmar cut down. 60% of its mangals. Just gone. And part of the problem is is. like you can restore mangrove forests. fortunately. We'll talk about some. people who do that. But it can take a while. And sometimes. when you restore some mangroves, you put. the seedlings in and. typhoon or a cyclone or a hurricane. comes along and just washes them all. away. So if your timing's wrong, it might take a very long time for you.

to restore a mangrove forest. So it's. it's not something you want to cut down. willy-nilly basically. Now shrimp farming is something we. mentioned earlier in passing but they. are the the biggest culprit responsible. for 35% of mangrove forest loss. And you know, people love shrimp all. around the world and in Thailand in the. 80s and 90s. and in other places as well but. especially Thailand, they cut down a lot of mangrove forests. to make these. shrimp farms along the coastline.

And then you've also got the sea level. rise that's. causing destruction. We mentioned parts. of Australia and Belize that those soil. deposits are outpacing it but that's. only in a couple of those places. It is. it is not doing that in other areas. No. So that means that sea level rise is. outpacing soil deposition there. I want to say one more thing about. shrimp farming too. I looked a little. bit into it. I [clears throat] cannot. decide. Maybe it deserves its own. episode. Who knows? Okay. One of the.

other problems with shrimp farming in. addition to. um a shrimp farm sharing the same kind. of land or a mangrove forest that land. it occupies being desirable for a shrimp. farm. So you cut down mangrove forest to. build a shrimp farm is that when you. harvest shrimp, you basically have to. refresh the water. So shrimp farmers. typically just basically open a dam and. let all the water out. And that water is. filled with tons of nutrients that. overwhelm the carrying capacity of the.

the ecosystems the mangrove forests. around the shrimp farm. And you get. what's called an algae bloom which sucks. up all the oxygen, kills off all the. fish and has just this devastating. effect on the ecosystem surrounding it. So shrimp farming is really hard on the. areas where it it takes place not just. from the shrimp farms themselves but. from what comes out of the shrimp farms. as well. And there's just so many basic. good best practices that could be. followed that just aren't followed that.

there's almost like a general like duh. coming out of the shrimp farming. industry as far as I can tell that. really needs to be fixed. It's almost as. if they just want to continue to make as. much money as they can before they're. regulated in some way. But I mean what. are you going to do? If you tried to. regulate them at all, you've got a nanny. state on your hands and who wants that? Yeah, and it shrimp farming is just one. tiny fraction of uh. the. great amounts of harm that are happening. to the ocean because of.

lots of things but commercial fishing is. certainly one of them. I will say though. it's really hard to turn down shrimp on. pizza. >> [laughter]. >> Is that you're having or something? No, no. That's that was from years back. I. used to love shrimp on pizza. All right. Talk to me more about this. What what. what what are we talking? You just throw. some shrimp on a regular cheese or is it. like a barbecue pineapple thing. >> No, no, no. No, a regular pizza but you. don't want to use just any shrimp. You. certainly don't want to use jumbo. shrimp. You want to use the little tiny.

salad shrimp because they cook just. enough with the pizza. A bigger shrimp. might still be partially raw. It's going. to be too big to eat. Oh, you put it on. there raw? Yeah, you just throw some of those Well, no. I think they usually come already. cooked now that I think about it. But. you just throw a couple handfuls on your. pizza, >> [laughter]. >> put it in the oven and there you thank. me later basically. Oh man, I love shrimp. I don't know. about shrimp and pizza. Well, now I feel. bad about eating shrimp knowing how bad. shrimp farming is. I know. It's uh. Yeah, it's another wake-up call, isn't.

it? Well, yes and I've been awoken because. I'm now farming my own shrimp here at. home in a very sustainable manner. [laughter] so that I can have it on my. pizza. Ah, bathtub shrimp. That's right. It's delicious. We don't. take baths anyway. Yeah. Yummy's like. why do you have a out of order sign on. our bathroom door? >> Right. I'm still trying to figure out. how to break the news to Yummy we don't. really have a working bathtub anymore. So. there are also invasive species that can.

totally wreck the health of a mangal. In the 70s in China. they were trying to do the right thing I. think. They were conservationists that. transplanted some marsh grasses that. were from the United States there to try. and slow erosion. But it crowded out. mangroves. And then in Texas they. weren't trying to do the right thing. They. the fish and game officials there they. said. hey, people like hunting this exotic.

Asian antelope. It's called. a nilgai. So let's put them in Texas so people can. hunt them. And it turns out they love to eat. mangroves. Yeah. So they're they're. being deforested by the game that was. imported to Texas to hunt. Which means I'm sure there's huge. bounties on these things now too. Yeah, isn't it funny how that all works. out? So there are people who are like we. really need to to work on this. We need. to get mangroves back. And there are. places where this is the good news. Mangrove deforestation globally speaking.

on average has actually stopped. progressing and is now starting to. decline. Yeah. The deforestation is. So. people are are you know, kind of getting. hip to the idea that we really need. these things. They provide countless. services for us humans. So even the most. selfish human can get behind mangrove. restoration, right? Yeah. I mean I think. there's about 42% of the worldwide. mangals are protected now. You you need. that number at like 92 well at 100 but I.

would feel much better if it was like in. the 80s or 90s, you know. Yeah, and not. only that like like areas that have been. developed coastally need to replant the. mangroves that they cut down to to. build because they need them really bad. You need mangrove buffers as we found. Whatever you can get is helpful. That's right. But there's another kind. of clever financial instrument as they. call it called blue bonds. It is a. subset of green bonds. Green bonds came.

around a while ago and these are. basically if you have money and you want. to invest responsibly in a way that. not only doesn't impact the environment. but can help the environment. You invest. in a green bond, or if you're really. into the ocean, the subset of blue. bonds, which were first introduced in. 2018. Right. And so, if like you want to. offset your emissions, you buy a blue. bond, and all of a sudden, you've just. paid somebody to go plant some mango, or. not mango, maybe mango, too, but.

mangrove. >> [laughter]. >> forests. Right. Yeah. A mango forest, that sounds. delicious. It would be. I'd be like. plant it in my backyard. That's where I. want you to plant it with my blue bond. >> So, look into blue bonds and green. bonds. It's um. I saw something depressing the other day. when they were I don't know what they. were talking about on the news, but they. basically said like if you have an IRA, like. you are supporting all kinds of. companies that you would probably never. support in real life. >> definitely. Mutual funds.

>> yeah, mutual funds, just everything's. all lumped in. So, they were trying to. encourage people that if they're able to. to be a little more selective in in what. they choose to invest in. Well, there's. a lot of sustainable mutual funds, too, that where they're, you know, very. carefully selected. Unfortunately, that. means the management fee's going to be. higher, but if you care, it doesn't. really matter, you know. Oh, is it. really a higher management fee? Yeah, anytime it requires any additional. thought or effort, the management fee.

just automatically goes up. I had to. click on three extra things. >> [laughter]. >> Right. I had to find out what these blue. bonds were. That's my impression of a mutual fund. manager. Yeah. Financial advisor. If. that's your financial advisor, you're. going to the wrong person. >> [laughter]. >> I meet him at Burger King every couple. of weeks. In the back. Yeah. Where else would you. meet? Um you got anything else? Yeah, nothing else. Up with mangroves. Up with. mangroves. Uh and since we both said up with. mangroves, everybody, that means it's.

time for listener mail. Uh this is a thank you from a Satanist. Uh we had a great podcast [music] that. we must have put this on a select. recently, I guess. Yeah, like 2 weeks. ago. Okay. Uh hey guys, discovered your podcast in. 2011, have been hooked ever since. [music]. Your informative banter-filled episodes. remained a welcome constant in my life. throughout college, adult years, and now. parenthood. It's helping me stay sane. during sleepless nights with my. newborns. [music]. Uh when I saw the episode on Satanism, I. guess I hadn't listened to it.

previously, um. >> [music]. >> I was simultaneously excited and. nervous. I would uh hope you'd give it. the usual Josh and Chuck treatment, and. I was not disappointed. Uh over the. years, I've been given a lot of grief. being a Satanist. Uh people often assume. that I'm a very devout Christian based. on the way I look, and often go from. praising me to threatening my family. upon learning that I follow the tenets. set forth by the Satanic Temple. Um by. shedding some light on the true nature. of Satanism, I feel that you have given. many people a look into the practice in. a non-threatening way, and hopefully.

this will help people choose kindness. over fear-based hatred when interacting. [music] with Satanists in the future. And thank you for being bold enough to. put this episode out in the world. I'm. sure it wasn't easy, uh but this. long-time [music]. listener appreciates it. Your friendly. Satanist, Donna. Thanks a lot, Donna. Donna the Satanist. Um yeah, that was a that was a good one. cuz um I went back and listened to it to. QA it before it was a select. I was. like, this is a really good episode. Yeah. But there was one thing at the. beginning, Chuck, that now I wish we had.

back, um because a couple of people. wrote in, and it was that we we COA'd at. the beginning saying like if you're, you. know, a Christian, you probably don't. want to listen to this, and people wrote. in and said, "No, like you you should. not have said that because there's. plenty of people out there who should. hear this and, you know, change their. views on people who hold these views.". So, >> [music]. >> um if you go back and listen to that, just plug your ears for that first part, and then listen to it through again. Yeah, that was 40-year-old Chuck. talking. >> [laughter]. >> Right. Not not 51-year-old Chuck.

>> That's right. That's right. That's a weird number to say. It is, Chuck. 51 is a weird number, and. it's going to be a weird time in your. life, I'm sure of it. >> [laughter]. >> Sure. Uh that's it, huh? That's the one thing. I'll always hate is you'll always be. younger than me. No matter how much I. want you to speed up the aging process, you'll always be younger. You would have. to travel to Mars in suspended. animation, and I would just have to stay. here on Earth for for me to catch up.

>> All right, I'm going to look into that. Uh thanks a lot, Donna. We appreciate. that big time. And if you want to be. like Donna and send us some kudos, we'll. take them. You can send it in an email. to stuffpodcast@iheartradio.com. >> [music]. >> Stuff You Should Know is a production of. iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from. iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, [music] Apple Podcasts, or wherever you. listen to your favorite shows.