Selects: Iran-Contra Affair: Shady in the 80s, Part 2 | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW

Okay, everyone, buckle up for the. thrilling conclusion of a Ron Contra. Shady in the 80s, part two. Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a. production of [music] iHeart Radio. [music]. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm. Josh Clark. There's Charles Debuk Brian. There's Jerry over there. And this is. stuff you should know. Iran Contra part.

two starting now. [music] Go. >> Uh maybe we should do a quick catch up. >> Oh, okay. >> Um well, we're still going. >> You acted like I just went to sleep. >> No, it's true. [laughter]. >> Uh so what's going on here is. the the United States is uh Congress has. decided that we cannot fund the Contras. to fight the Sandinistas in Nicaragua. Right. >> Shut off funding. So, the Reagan. administration uh makes a deep covert.

push to continue doing so, >> right? >> Through uh a bunch of fun and shady. ways, >> right? They're fundraising. They're. directly arming the Contras. They're. training them, doing all sorts of crazy. stuff. >> Yes. But if you know that this is about. Iran Contra, and you're like, "What. about Iran? What's going on here? I. haven't heard anything about Iran.". >> Keep your socks on. >> Well, here we go. This is where Iran. enters the picture. >> Right. You can take your socks off. >> All right. Go. [laughter].

>> Are your socks on? >> Uh, I've got on little footy socks. Yeah, >> I do, too. Cool. Oh, [laughter] Jerry. does, too. Sweet. It's the way to go. >> Jerry H has those true footies where you. can't even see them at all. >> I can see them. >> Mine peek out just a little, which I'm. not a huge fan of. >> Well, check out mine. >> Yeah. No. >> No. Okay. Enter Iran. We really That was a. great intro and it just went away. >> That's right. >> So, um, on the other side of the world. from Nicaragua, uh, there was another.

foreign policy disaster simmering that. Reagan had going and it was in the form. of Iran. And specifically, it wasn't. even in the form of Iran. It was in the. form of a a a problem that America had. doesn't really have much these days, but. definitely did in the 70s and 80s where. uh Americans would be taken hostage. around the world. Um but specifically. almost exclusively by Lebanese. terrorists who were if not working on.

behalf of Iran were definitely sponsored. by Iran. And regardless of who is. president, the fact that there were. hostages being held by another country. and there wasn't anything we could do. about it, that was a real blemish on the. presidency. It was not a very proud. thing to think about for America, but. that was just reality for a while there. Yeah. So Iran at the time, this is the. early 80s, this is just a few years. removed from the Iranian revolution of. 1979. And this is where we've talked about it.

before. Go look up photos of Iran in the. mid70s, pre-revolution. Right. >> And it looks like London in the swinging. 60s and 70s. >> Very kind of hip place to be. >> Uh Iranian revolution happens. Uh. fundamentalists take control of the. government that was previously um the. sha of Iran who was um friendly to the. west. >> Sure. >> Friendly to America generally. >> And uh the Ayatollah Kmeni Kmeni. >> I've always heard Kmeni. Kmeni um.

installed the is Islamic theocracy and. bad things started happening pretty. quickly. >> Yeah. There was a it was a about as. quick a turn about faith politically and. socially as you can imagine. >> Yeah. For a whole country. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> But not everyone in the country as we'll. learn like the whole country didn't just. change overnight. >> No. But the the the Islamic theocracy. was in power very much so. One of the. things that happened was um they were. not very fond of America or Americans.

and the um American embassy was famously. stormed and 66 Americans working there. were taken hostage and held for more. than a year. I think it was like. >> this is stuff I really remember. >> like 440 days or something. >> Yeah. 444 days, >> man. >> The Iranian hostage crisis. I remember. this as a nine-year-old very clearly. >> Really? Oh yeah. >> I have no recollection of that. >> Yeah, it was a big deal. Yellow ribbons. and it was on the news constantly. >> I remember entering the the room and.

being like, "What does this have to do. with Rainbow Bright? Turn this. newscast.". >> I even remember. So, what happened was. uh Jimmy Carter [clears throat] did not. get these hostages freed during his uh. his I was about to say reign, but sort. of the opposite [laughter] of who Jimmy. Carter was. what everybody thinks of. >> during his administration, his. ironfisted reign, >> the days of terror. >> Uh, but within a few days, and that may. have cost him the election, but within a. few days of or hours even of Reagan's.

inauguration, the hostages were freed. And I remember as as a nine-year-old. >> hearing kids pariting their parents'. conversations like it was really Carter. that had him freed, you know, all the. work he did up until then and then other. kids saying, "Are you kidding me? As. soon as Reagan got in office, they knew. that they were toast, right? >> And that Reagan wasn't going to be a psy. like Carter, right? >> And I was like, "What's a psych? [laughter]. >> Who are these dudes?". >> No, but I remember very distinctly, it's. weird, like on the playground hearing.

this stuff. >> That's funny. >> Yeah. Like little nine-year-olds. I. definitely didn't hear this when I was a. kid, but I remember hearing later on as. a grown-up um still in Rainbow Bright. Uh that it was Reagan's campaign was. somehow in touch with Iran. >> Yeah. >> And that they brokered this. It also got. them to wait um to release the hostages. until after Reagan was in office. The. timing was not at all. >> hours after his inauguration. No. accident. >> It's a little fishy. You know what I.

mean? But whether it was That's funny. that I'm sure somebody's parents were. like, "Yeah, it's cuz they were so. scared of Reagan, they knew that they. better release these guys." That's. totally not the case because there were. other hostages taken by other by actual. um Lebanese terrorists who were probably. sponsored by Iran and that were they. were held throughout Reagan's. presidency. >> Yeah. And that that's sort of a big part. of this the second half of this story, right, >> was the fact that that was very. embarrassing for Reagan. He didn't like. hostages being held on his watch.

>> No, but he had campaigned against. negotiating with terrorists under any. circumstances. >> So, he's stuck now. >> Yeah. Because he's basically saying, "If. you get taken hostage, I mean, you're on. your own. We we'll we'll use our. rhetoric and whatever we can to. influence you being released, but we're. not going to negotiate for your release. That's just the way it is.". >> And that's a long-standing American. policy, right? And it makes sense. because if you negotiate uh with. terrorists, then that's just going to. lead to more kidnappings.

>> Yeah. >> Because they know that you're open for. business. >> like anywhere in the world. >> Yeah. >> There was a a kidnapping of TWWA flight. 847. Very very famous one. You know the. picture of like the pilot leaning out of. the cockpit and the guys in the picture. with the gun behind him? That was 847. >> Um right. >> And that was a that I mean they that was. I remember that one. That was I was. probably nine then and that was just. scary cuz they were flying all over the. place. You had no idea what was going to. happen. People were being beaten on the. plane. One Navy guy was beaten in, shot.

and throw his body thrown on the tarmac. >> Yeah. The 80s like it seems. comparatively tame now in a lot of ways. compared to the things that used to go. on. >> Thank McDonald's. >> hijackings [laughter] and kidnappings. and hostages. It's like it was the '8s. were nuts. >> They were nuts. But um. >> Pac-Man, >> right? You know, Pac-Man Fever. >> Is Pac-Man. >> rapping Rodney? It was crazy, >> right? Rapping like are is that Rodney. Piper? >> No. Rapping Rodney Dangerfield, his big. hit. >> Oh, yeah.

>> Yeah. >> No respect. >> What about What about the icky shuffle? That was a little crazy. >> Uh, was that 80s? >> Sure. Late 80s, >> I guess. So, >> okay, I got one for you. Okay. >> The uh the Bears, what was their thing? >> Oh, the Super Bowl Shuffle. >> The Super Bowl Shuffle, right? >> Yeah, >> that was pretty 80s. I think they were. 84. Yeah, we're putting uh you know, my. band every year plays for sure one gig. at Decatur's Porchfest and every year we. do try to do a theme and this year we're. doing 80s sort of new wave. >> Nice. >> And I jokingly suggested Pac-Man Fever.

the rapping and Rodney. But. >> are you guys going to do it? >> No. Songs are terrible. >> Do you have a synth player playing with. you? >> I bought Emily a keyboard and she's. learning. >> Awesome. Yeah, >> she's going to be like, "Wait, hold on. Hold on." [laughter]. >> I hope not. >> That's cool, man. >> No, she's practicing. >> I've heard her do that. Um, >> I mean, she played piano when she was a. kid, so it's not the biggest stretch. >> I've heard that one uh that her do that. one blondie song that she just brought. the house down. >> Yeah, we might one way or another. Yes, we might bring that back cuz that's 80s. >> Yeah. >> Or was that 70s?

>> It was so close on the cusp. I seriously. doubt anybody's going to throw a beer. can at you for it. >> Anyway, Porchfest, everyone. I'll. publicize it in October. >> Nice. So Reagan's hands are tied um in. every way possible because he can't on. he he can't negotiate with terrorists. The only option is to send in a a covert. Delta Force team, >> which they Carter tried that and it. didn't work. >> Doesn't always work. You could lose your. own men. And that I think that's what. happened in Carter's case, right? >> Yeah, for sure.

>> So what he can do though without anyone. knowing is totally negotiate with. terrorists. >> Yeah. Just as long as the American. public doesn't know. Sure. >> Yeah. And that's what happened. >> And he followed that Reagan playbook. where it's like, okay, I said this. Well, if I just change this one little. part, >> right, >> it makes it all fine. >> That's right. >> Again, as long as the American public. doesn't know. So, while Reagan said. America will never negotiate with with. hostages, they didn't say Israel will. never negotiate with with terrorists for.

hostages. Right. >> Yeah. >> So, actually, Israel had a long-standing. policy of negotiating with terrorists. They wouldn't they would kidnap people. from the other side and then they'd be. like, "All right, I'll give you five. guys. I've only got two. Let me kidnap a. few of your people. Okay, now I have. five." Like there would be negotiations. for hostage exchanges all the time. >> Yeah. Between Israel and Palestine, >> right? They they just knew what they. were doing. So they said, "Okay, well, if if Israel goes to Iran and says, "Hey, you know this American over there,

why don't you get them released? We can. help you out with some stuff." What do. you think about this? >> Yeah. So earlier when I mentioned the. fact that Iran as whole cloth did not. change overnight as a country, >> the the government did, but there were. still some plenty of people there that. were a little more moderate in their. views and the Reagan administration had. a channel to them, >> right? >> So he was talking to them, these more. moderate factions, and making a little.

headway. And they were like, "By the. way, we'll totally give you these. hostages if you give us arms.". >> Yeah. Because Iran was fighting um the. Iran Iraq war, at least half of it. >> Yeah. And this is just where stuff is. just totally crazy because we were we. were funding both sides. >> at the very least. We were advising both. sides. >> Well, I mean, we directly gave money. >> to Iraq. No, you're right. >> We sold them weapons and we provided. training and intelligence. And this was. this wasn't secret. This was like right.

>> a real deal thing. >> We were publicly supporting Iraq, but. then we were secretly arming Iran. >> Yeah. I think what they never proved. beyond a doubt was that we went to uh. Saddam Hussein and said, "Hey, why don't. you go in there and overthrow Iran?". >> Oh, really? >> Yeah. There was never. >> we started it. I don't think that was. ever. There was a lot of uh. circumstantial evidence that that was. the case, but never like the smoking gun. that we actually encouraged Saddam. Hussein to do. So,

>> gotcha. >> But it's just man, when you look at how. all this played out over the years, it's. just maddening. >> Yeah. >> You know. >> Yeah. It's it's a show. >> Yeah. So, Iraq and Iran are fighting. We're supplying both. >> Playing both sides of the coin, >> right? >> Uh and we offered arms to Iran. And who. you going to call? Israel, >> not Ghostbusters. >> Oh, Gorbanifar. >> Well, you're gonna call Olly North. >> Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah, >> I would have gotten there eventually. [laughter] Yeah, because Okay, so. remember Ali North is this total novice. when it comes to covert operations by.

not Yeah. He's been running the. Nicaragua op for years now. Yeah. Just. doing a bangup job of it. So they. they're like, "Well, sure. We'll have. him do this incredibly illegal, super. sensitive arm sale to Iran, too. Why. don't you come on over here, Ollie?" And. Ollie said, "Well, okay, that's fine.". but I need to go get the lay of the. land. And he actually traveled to Iran. with a fake passport under an assumed. name, William P. Good with an E. >> And um when he went it was it was.

dangerous enough that William Casey. >> supposedly Oliver North later testified. gave him cyanide pills so that he could. take his own life rather than be. tortured by the Iranians if if this were. in fact like some sort of setup. >> Again, right out of a movie. >> Yeah. But Oliver North went to Iran with. cyanide pills. >> and a fake passport. Billy good. >> Y. >> So everything went great though. >> It did. He didn't need the cyanide pills. after all. >> He did not. Um he dealt with uh like you.

mentioned earlier this Iranian uh. businessman named uh Gorbanifar. And this guy was 10 shades of shady. So. much [snorts] so that the CIA wouldn't. even deal with him. >> No, they issued a burn notice on him in. 1983, >> which is I don't even know what that is. That means just. >> it's a TV show. >> He's dead to us. >> It's basically stay away. Okay. It's. putting him on blast to all the other. intelligence agencies in the world. saying. >> got persona nongrada. >> CIA won't even deal with this guy. And. so Oy North is like, "Yeah, I'll deal. with this guy.".

>> All right. So with his help, uh Oliver. North set up a deal, um where. >> and it's so simple to look at like. Israel, you give them your missiles. >> and then we'll just replace those. missiles for you with our missiles. So. we're not giving the missiles, you are. >> And because no American explicitly said. to Iran, hey, we're doing this so that. you guys won't get these hostages. released. >> It wasn't an arms for hostages deal. And. so Reagan's vow to never negotiate with.

terrorists remained intact. [snorts]. >> That's right. Uh 58. uh tow missiles. >> What does that stand for? >> Tube launched optically tracked wireless. guided missile which is like it's like a. the tube launched. There's a tube and it. can be uh like mounted on the ground, mounted on a jeep. It's super portable. but they are they'll blow some stuff up. >> I think I've seen these. >> You have? So 508 of these um made it. from Israel to Iran and then in very.

short order a couple of days later one. of the hostages Benjamin Weir minister. >> who was held by Lebanese terrorists for. 16 months was released. So it worked. >> It did work. Huzzah. It was a big deal. around the White House too. Um but they. said let's try it again but this time it. seemed a little messy to get Israel. involved. Let's just do this ourselves. Ali, you think you can handle this? He. said sure. me and Gerbanor have this. So. rather than Israel giving arms to Iran,

Richard Cord got brought in just like. with Nicaragua. And again, this isn't. like years after Nicaragua, right? >> Nicaragua is at full bore in full swing. It's still going. >> and Olly North is running both. operations simultaneously. Um and so the the new setup was the. Department of Defense would sell the CIA. missiles for 3,700 bucks a pop. >> Yeah. The CIA would sell them to Richard. Cord at cost. >> and then Cord would sell them to.

Gorbanifar for 10 grand a piece. >> and then Gorbanifar would go sell them. to Iran for whatever he charged Iran. >> Oh, can you imagine? >> I can't I guarantee it was more than the. 10 grand. >> Yeah. >> And this happened multiple times over. the course of a little over a year. America secretly transferred 2,000. missiles and missile parts to Iran um in. eight shipments. >> Yeah. For the release of hostages. >> Yeah. Ultimately there were three.

hostages that got released out of seven. that had been taken hostage total. >> Yeah. And didn't he say ultimately there. were three more hostages taken? So they. netted out at zero. >> At zero. >> Yeah. So, um, but that was that was the. whole Iran operation. >> Yeah. But here's the deal. This price. markup means that that shell company, um, and those Swiss bank accounts were. making a lot of money and so much so. that I think one of them had $3 million. made in interest alone.

>> Yeah. >> So, at some point, someone's like, "Hey, this this is a money-m operation now. Mhm. >> Why don't we tie a little bow on all. this and use some of that money to fund. the Contress cuz you guys are doing both. of these things and you need money. Congress won't give it to you. >> Forget the fundraising omelets, >> right? >> We'll just use the money from these. illegal arm sales to fund the Contras. >> Yep. And that's exactly what happened. So to put it in plain terms, America.

illegally and secretly sold missiles to. Iran, used the proceeds from those. missile sales to secretly and illegally. fund the Contras to help them overthrow. their government down in Nicaragua. That's what the Reagan administration. did. >> That's right. >> That's why it's called Iran Contra. That's where they came together. There. was a diversion of funds. >> Yeah. and the uh I think it was it by. 1986. um Congress finally got back on board. because of this drum beat from Reagan.

>> over the years of how much we need to. really do this officially. >> And keep in mind, Congress still didn't. know any of this is going on, right, >> secretly. >> Yeah. >> Um and then Congress said, "All right, we'll give you $100 million to aid this. cause.". >> Um Reagan said, "Hot hot diggity dog.". >> You would think that was the end of all. the uh covert stuff. >> It wasn't though. No, >> no, it still continued on, but now it. was legitimized and had even better. funding. But that was not the uh the end. of the whole thing. Like everybody. didn't just get to walk away and say.

that was close because the whole thing. started to come apart actually. And I. say that we take an ad break and come. back and talk about it. >> great. >> after this. >> Well, now when you're on the road. driving in your truck, why not learn a. thing or two from [music] Chuck? It's. stuff you should know. >> Stuff you should know. >> All right. [music]. [music].

>> Okay, Chuck. So, 1986, Congress is back. on board. I think it's worth pointing. out that that's exactly four years after. the Democrats took control of the House. in 1982. So, I wonder if the Republicans. took control back in '86 and that's why. the funding got turned back on to the. Contras. >> We could solve this. >> I I'd like to speculate instead. [laughter]. So, this all might have Who knows if. this ever would have even been found out.

had it not been for the uh sharpshooting. >> Yeah. >> of a young Sandinistan soldier named. Jose Fernando Canales Alman. >> Nice. Uh, in October 5th, 1986, there. was a cargo plane, a C123 called the. Provider, um, flying 70 Soviet Kalishnikovs, >> 100,000 rounds of ammo, rocket grenades, and other supplies. >> Mhm. >> Uh, and this is one of those things. where you said they would fly things.

over and kick them out the back of the. plane. >> Sure. >> This is one of those those uh runs. >> Yeah. The problem with this particular. run though is that they did this at 2500. ft in broad daylight. >> Yeah. They got a little lazy. >> a tad bit. >> or maybe cocky. >> I don't even know if it was that. I. think it was more like this was just. work. It was an everyday job by this. time. They've been doing it for years. >> Yeah. >> You know, and the operation was just. humming along so nicely that it was. almost on autopilot. >> Yeah. >> So, yeah, they they did this one supply. drop on October 5th, 1986 in broad.

daylight. >> And there were four crew aboard, William. J. Cooper, Wallace, Buzz Sawyer, Freddy. Vilchis, and a guy named Eugene. >> Hassenfuss. >> who uh and again this sliding doors. thing. Hassenfuss is the only guy who. had a parachute. He borrowed it from his. brother, a sky diver, cuz you know, he. thought it might be smart to take a. parachute, right? No one else had. parachutes. No. >> Had he not had a parachute, this may. have turned out differently. >> It it may have for sure. He was the only. one that survived this plane crash.

because he was the only one who borrowed. the parachute from his brother and he. jumped out, landed, made it safely into. the jungle. And I think he actually. survived and evaded the Sandinistas for. maybe a day or something like that. before he was captured. And when he was. captured, they let him out of the jungle. like um with a rope around his neck just. just about as big of a prisoner as you. can imagine. Yeah. Super publicized. There were billboards of the of him. being led around by Saninistas and they.

started asking him questions and he was. like, "What do you want to know?". >> Yeah, he sang like a canary. >> He really did. He said, "Uh, this is my. 10th supply mission." Uh, I presume that. the CIA is running this. I don't know. and he would know this would be. something that he would he he could. legitimately guess at at least because. he had actually worked on CIA um. airdrops over Vietnam or Cambodia for. Air America back in the Vietnam War. >> Yeah. But he wasn't like uh he sings.

like a canary because he's not very high. up on the totem pole. Like his job. >> was to get up there and shove the stuff. out of the back of the plane, >> right, >> for three grand a month, >> right? >> He wasn't even a CIA operator. who's. just a former marine who had who had a. background working with Air America. years before, but by this time by the. time he joins on um. >> doing this for the Contras, he was like. working as a a construction worker. part-time in Wisconsin back home. >> So, this is like pretty good money. I.

think it's like he was getting seven. grand in today's dollars a month for. basically kicking AK-47. crates out the back of a plane over. Nicaragua. >> Yeah. So he's not the kind of guy that's. going to take the fall, >> right, >> for anyone. So he's he's singing like a. canary. >> Even if he had kept his mouth shut, it. wouldn't have mattered. Sounds like, right? >> Yeah. Because um all the other guys, including Hassenfuss, uh had their. wallets on the plane. They had all their. employee ID cards. And in fact, I don't.

think we mentioned in episode one um. that the company that was set up to do. these drops was set up uh called. Southern Air Transport out of I guess. Miami. >> Uh so they all had their Southern Air. Transport ID cards, which was the CIA. front. >> Like everybody knew Southern Air. Transport was a CIA front. So they might. as well have had like CIA junior badges. or something or like Michael Keaton in. Out of Sight when he has the big FBI. t-shirt. >> [laughter]. >> I haven't seen that one. >> Oh, you haven't seen Out of Sight?

>> No. Is that the one where he. >> That's George Clooney and Jennifer. Lopez. >> Is he a bad guy in it? >> No, he's a good guy, but he walks in. He. plays Ray Nichollet who played. >> uh same character in Jackie Brown, FBI. guy. >> Okay. >> But it's funny because he walks in with. an FBI t-shirt on and Dennis Fina is. Jennifer Lopez's dad and he's a former. cop and he goes, "Hey Ray, let me ask. you. You got one that says undercover?". [laughter]. >> Dennis Fina, man. Class A. >> Oh man, you got to see out of sight. That's classic. >> All right, I'll check it out. >> Like one of the better movies. >> I mean, I know exactly the movie you're.

talking about. [clears throat] I avoided. it like the plague. >> It's so good. Okay. You would love it. >> All right. >> So, Southern Air Transport, CIA Front. There's also a log book that connected. this flight uh and all the other. flights. >> And then Hassenfuss in his wallet had a. business card to Robert W. Owen. >> This is a big one. >> Who was working with Oliver North in. Washington, >> right? Which so that provided a direct. line between Oliver North. >> Oh yeah. >> and some guys who were kicking. Kalashnikovs out of the back of a plane.

over Nicaragua. >> Yeah. >> So that was a really big deal that when. this guy got captured and you know told. the Sanasas as much as he knew because. the Saninistas were like attention. world. >> Yeah. >> Listen to what we just found out. the. CIA has um totally been funding these. contra rebels who are trying to. overthrow this sovereign government. >> and um we think you guys should know. about it. >> Yeah. And it was um it wasn't like you. could totally discount that even though. it was from the Sandinistans. >> like Congress and the American media.

were like what I'm sure Congress was. like wait a minute. >> right. >> this this reeks of like something that. had been happening that we tried to shut. down. >> Yeah. Because remember, a even if the. CIA was briefing Congress, it was either. Bill Casey or Dewey Clarage and they. were doing a really obtuse job of this, keeping Congress at arms length. So, anytime something like this came out, >> almost none of Congress knew the full. extent of this and it was always in.

flagrant violation of whatever Congress. wanted or whatever Congress had agreed. to. >> Yeah. Yeah. And this wasn't like this. was sort of the straw that broke it all. open. >> Mhm. >> Or that broke the camel's back. Um. >> broke the camel's back wide open. >> Oh god, that's gross. >> Poor camel. >> Uh things have been unraveling for a. bit. There was a party in 1985 in. Virginia. Thrown. >> I can't wait. I can't wait. >> Thrown by Soldier of Fortune magazine. >> Can you imagine? >> No. >> What's that party like? >> I don't want to know. I can't imagine. I.

used to read Soldier of Fortune when I. was in my ninja training as like a. 10-year-old boy. And even then, I was. like, "This this magazine makes my. stomach hurt.". >> And it's in 1985. Like, can you imagine. the amount of like blow being secretly. done in the bathroom at that party? >> Sure. But also, they were making snuff. movies in the living room and there's no. telling what was going on in Soldier of. Fortune. We can tell you at the very. least there was a lot of boasting going. on openly about this Contra operation. And again, this is a time when people.

don't know about this stuff. >> Yeah. But you know how what happens is. like you get enough people and enough. years. >> and people start talking, people start. bragging. >> and all of a sudden you're you're you. have a couple of genonics at a soldier. of fortune party. >> Sure. >> And you're like, hey, guess what? And. then that's what happened. >> Somebody goes, "What?". >> Yeah. >> And you go, here it comes. >> Yeah. And they drop the, you know, they. drop the bomb that what's been going on. A concerned citizen hears this. I guess. he must have been mistakenly invited to.

the soldier. >> I don't know how that guy got invited or. they just happened to talk to the wrong. guy or whatever, but. >> probably that. >> he was like, I am really fearful of my. life for saying something about this, but I feel like somebody should know. >> So, he went to a lawyer, uh, a human. rights lawyer named David Sheien, and he. said, "You go tell everybody. You put. your life on the line.". >> And he did. He submitted an affidavit to. federal court, started uh doing. interviews, talking to journalists, drumming up support. White House was. like, "We don't know what you're talking.

about. >> You're a crazy man.". >> Like, "This is all 100% made up.". >> And uh finally, it took a Lebanese. newspaper, um Al Shira that reported on. this deal, this arms for hostage deal. like in a legitimate newspaper. >> Right. So now both stories have been. blown open. You've got Eugene Hassenfuss. captured and the Contra operation is. blown open and now Alshira um is is. reporting on the Iran arms for hostage. deal and really crazily enough these two.

separate arms of this one scandal came. out within a month of each other. >> Yeah. >> Which is it's bizarre, but that's what. happened. And now it was like there's. it's on the table. The America media. knows about it. Congress knows about it. Heads are about to roll. >> All right, we'll take our final break. and we'll come back and uh talk about. the aftermath of Iran Kandra. >> Well, now when you're on the road. driving in your truck, why not learn a.

thing or two from Josh [music] and. Chuck? It's stuff you should know. >> Stuff you should know. >> All right. [music]. All right, Chuck, you promised. Aftermath. Let's hear it. >> All right, so. >> Jerry just lol. >> Every everything is exposed. Um Oliver.

North uh was no longer in business doing. his thing. >> No, he he shut down shop real quick. >> He did, but not before. very famously he. and his um very 80shaired. secretary Fawn Hall. >> I forgot. I looked I was like Fawn Hall. I looked her up and as soon as I saw her. I was like right. Yeah. >> Fawn Hall. >> Sure. >> Who can forget that hair? >> She could barely walk through a door. >> No, it was ginormous for sure. It. >> was so great. I would be fearful around.

a shredder if I were her. >> But she was not fearful at all. She and. Oliver North spent a day uh they they. called it a shredding party. I mean, we. will never know the the full truth. behind this because of all the evidence. that they shredded. >> Yep. As far as anyone knows, Oliver. North decided on his own to shred every. document he had on it. >> That's right. >> And yeah, that's that's it. It's it's. now it's the the um official narrative. that has been written into the history.

book, which you can just guarantee is. not anywhere near the full story. >> Right. So, it all comes out. Uh, the. Reagan administration start looking. around and they're like, "Well, who. who's going to be the psy for this one?". >> And Oliver North could not escape it. No. >> But they were like, "He's small. potatoes. He's he's he'll he'll go. down.". >> Well, I think he was even willing to. take the fall. Like, he knew he was. going to be the fall guy and was like, "Okay, that's part of the job, >> right?" But they knew that it had to the. American public and certainly Congress.

wasn't going to be satisfied with just. Oliver North, >> right? >> So, who did they land on? So the the. official line became this. Po Dexter and. I guess McFarland would have started it. became uh fully aware of just how badly. Reagan wanted to help the Contras and. said, "I'm going to do something about. this and tapped Olly North and said, "We. need to help the Contras out. Go help. them out. Figure it out." And North went. off and basically went rogue on his own. and set up this whole operation. created.

this entire network with CORD. Um. decided to do the Iranian arms deal all. this stuff basically on his own, >> right? Like Reagan and Bush knew nothing. about it. >> Nothing about it. And that the buck. stopped at PO Dexter ultimately. It. didn't go any further. William Casey. being CIA, he was basically out of the. loop. Um that was the official story. they came out with. That's right. >> And America went, "You're kidding, right? This is a joke.". >> Yeah. Yeah, I mean I remember these. hearings um even as a little kid like.

watching these and then watching the. news coverage of it. >> and like we mentioned Oliver North. strolling in there with his dress. uniform and. >> uh you know by all accounts being a. pretty standup guy like he didn't rat. anyone out. >> He didn't but he also he was like. there's there's no way the president. didn't know about this. He said, "I. don't have any direct evidence that the. president did know about it, but right, >> it's my understanding that the president. was fully aware of what was going on.". >> Yeah. What was the deal with this. missile supply shipment, though? That's. the one thing I didn't quite get.

>> So, there was North got rid of all the. documents that he could. Right. Right. >> Well, North didn't have any control over. CIA documents. And at that first missile. resupply, >> okay, >> where they were resupplying Israel. He. had a CIA, he basically said, "Hey, CIA, do you know anybody I can use to ship. these things? I'm I'm I've got an. emergency here. I need to get these to. Israel fast." Yeah. >> And the CIA being the CIA is still a. bureaucracy. They had to document this. event, right?

>> So there was a document out there now, >> right, that was not shredded, >> right, that he couldn't get his hands. on, that he couldn't shred. And so this. led to Reagan. taking responsibility or saying, "Okay, I was aware of this this Iran missile. deal. >> by backdating an order to William Casey. saying, I order you not to tell Congress. about this, even though you're supposed. to." So Reagan basically said on paper, I know about this Iran, this one missile.

transfer to Iran. Had no idea about the. Contress, >> right? Okay. And at first they started. out denying everything. >> Oh yeah. Like after this Al Shira story. that we talked about, he went on. television, Reagan did, and denied. everything. Every. >> He said, "All this is just total BS.". >> Yeah. Exactly. >> Now, let's stop talking about it, everybody. [laughter]. >> 10 days after that, Reagan had another. press conference where he talked about. the Iran operation, and he acknowledged. it, but said, "What we're really doing. here is just trying to sort of send a.

signal to Iran that we're we want. friendlier relations.". >> Right? And it was not arms for hostage. >> Exactly. And then so that was 10 days. after the first denial. >> And then four months after that, because. the reporting would not stop, he. basically said, "Okay, yeah, whatever it. started out as, I admit that it devolved. into an arms for hostage deal." That's. right. Which even that even that. admission, which is the closest he ever. came to admitting, you know, responsibility for it. Yeah. Even that's. just total BS and fantasy. It was from.

the outset an arms for hostages deal, right? The whole thing was set up to get. hostages released and that that was it. So there was there was no other way to. put it. >> Yeah. >> But that's he he denied that to his. dying day. >> Uh as far as fallout, uh Po Dexter. resigned. Oliver North was fired. >> Um Casey died in a hospital um not too. long after this whole thing like was. exposed. >> I mean like weeks. >> Yeah. So um the press was all over the. president. He um appointed the Tower.

Commission um to look into this. >> The president appointed a commission to. investigate. >> Yeah. >> the president's own administration's. wrongdoing. >> That's right. And it was determined that. uh Reagan's disengagement from the. management of his White House created. conditions such that it was possible. that he did not know about this. which. that is the absolute best official. finding he could have hoped for because. it basically says Reagan didn't know. He.

had a rogue guy working for him, a true. believer, a patriot, but Reagan didn't. know about this and yeah, he should have. he should have had a closer watch on his. executive branch, but he didn't. What. are you going to do? Let's get Mr. T in. here for a photo op with Nancy. [laughter]. >> Uh there was a criminal investigation. and what they were really um honing in. on was the $18 million in profits. >> Mhm. um that that were made and what. happened to that money, where it went. Uh 14 people were charged. Um Oliver. North was tried and found guilty on.

three counts. >> Yeah. >> Uh one of the counts was um for getting. a uh $16,000 security system installed. uh in his home courtesy of Cord with. with that money. >> There was a rumor that his his there was. a bounty on his head from terrorists, >> right? and um. >> court hooked him up. >> Right now, that was a big problem for. North because North's whole bag was I. was following orders, >> right, >> that I assumed were coming from the.

president ultimately and I was doing it. out of my patriotic duty and a sense of, you know, I was a true believer that we. need to get rid of communism. And the. American public loved it. They were. like, great, make this man a saint, right? Congress started to love it, too. and he he got off. But that was a real. problem because it's saying, "Well, you. took this gift, >> right, >> from funds from this illicit arm sales, >> right?" But it was a gift of a security. system to help protect his family. So, it's not like, you know, it was a gift. of 10 pounds of blow and like.

>> Right. [laughter]. and a Nicaraguan sex worker from the San. government. >> Exactly. Uh CORD was convicted of one. count of lying to Congress uh and the. investigators. Um he basically denied. that North received any funds from any. of this. So it still kind of hinged on. that security system, I guess. >> Right. >> And. >> so everybody went to jail forever after. that point, right? >> No, that's not true at all. >> Um Hakee got two years probation, a. $5,000 fine. >> Sequ got two years probation.

>> Is that what he got? Yep. >> Two years probation. >> So the two guys who were actually. running the company that ran this whole. thing each got two years probation. uh. North's conviction was overturned on a. technicality and President Bush, the the. senior Bush. >> on Christmas Eve, um and this was. Christmas Eve as he was leaving office, right? >> Yep. >> He issued six pardons, basically lot let. everyone off the hook, including Casper. Weinberger, who hadn't even gone to. trial yet. >> No. And neither had um Dwayne Clarage,

Dewey Clarage was going to stay in. trial, too. Both of them received. preemptive pardons. And a lot of people. are like that was about the shadiest set. of pardons anyone's ever issued because. there's a lot of people out there who. say Bush really walked away from this. scot-free, but there is no way he wasn't. even more involved in this than Reagan. was. >> Yeah. I mean, George Bush withheld uh. subpoenaed his subpoenaed diary entries. >> that basically indicated that he had. full knowledge of this the entire time. Um eventually in 1992.

uh independent counsel Lawrence Walsh um. asked for these again and Bush like said. I asked you for these diary entries and. Bush was like I didn't. >> you did I didn't [snorts] fully. understand uh it was inadvertent like. you asked me for a lot of stuff I didn't. know you asked me for the diary entries. >> right. >> and uh Walsh was really upset and he. said the Iran Contra Contra coverup. >> has now been completed uh and George. Bush is the president who has such a.

contempt for honesty and arrogant. disregard for the rule of law. >> Yeah. And I mean the the the the force. stalling that the Reagan White House and. then later on the Bush White House did. um in in allowing these investigations. to go forward and and trying to keep. Congress at arms length after everything. came out. It worked because there were. articles of impeachment introduced in. the House um against Ronald Reagan. Yeah. and they managed to stave him off. to where it was like, well, he's leaving. office anyway. Forget about it. This.

investigation took years and years and. years. And then finally, when Bush. pardoned everybody, that was it. There. was nothing else to do. Everybody who. was involved was implic was was off. scot-free. And then um the fact that. Oliver North had shredded all those. documents, they were all lost to. history. Like the actual truth is lost. to history. >> Yeah. Reagan uh his reputation took a. hit, a temporary hit um for a while. there. He went from 63% in the span of a. couple of months to 43 to 47% depending.

on which poll you looked at on his. approval rating. >> And uh he would get it back though um. despite in the 1990 deposition the very. very famous deposition where Ronald. Reagan said I don't remember or I don't. recall 88 times. Uh that was very. [snorts] big deal. It was all over the. news. >> Yeah, it was. >> um almost as famous or just as famous as. Bill Clinton's very famous. Uh depends. what your definition of is is. >> Right. Exactly. >> But uh Reagan rebounded.

>> He did, man. To the most popular. presidency since FDR, right? >> Yeah. Upon his exit, his his approval. rating had bounced all the way back up. to the early 60s. >> Yeah. Mr. T famously carried him out of. the White House on his shoulders on his. last day in office. Oh man. >> So that's a Ron Contra man. >> What a story. >> Heck of a story. >> Where's this movie? >> I don't know. Hopefully we'll get some. rights to it after this episode. >> I I want to play Fawn Hall. [laughter]. >> Awesome. That's great.

>> You get Jerry to play Fawn Hall. >> That'd be great, Jerry. Um well, in the. meantime, while we find a a suitable wig. for Jerry, um you can uh find out more. about Iran Contra by going and reading. contemporary articles on it. I'm telling. you, it's really awesome. And since I. said that, it's time for listener mail. >> I'm going to call this follow up on the. moon landing thing. Hey guys, in my. opinion, the Apollo missions and moon. landings are the most significant events. in the history of life on Earth. >> Right. >> Uh on the question why the command.

module and lunar lander were launched, separated. I think the reason was to. allow the command module to be ejected. [music]. in case of an emergency. The very top of. the Apollo stack was the launch escape. system, like an ejector seat on. steroids. I imagine they had to keep. things as light and nimble as possible. for the ales [music] to be effective. >> Mhm. >> Uh I don't think you mentioned something. that's really significant. The Apollo 8. mission was the very first time humans. [music] went to the moon. >> On top of being the first time we broke. free of Earth's gravity, like like 11,

the stakes were incredibly high. They. had to first insert the correct. trajectory to make it to the moon, then. do a burn to enter the orbit around the. moon, then perform another burn to break. free of the moon's gravity and head back. toward Earth. If [music] any piece was. not in place, those astronauts would. have spent the rest of their lives. either orbiting the sun or orbiting the. moon. Apollo 8 also gave us the. Earthrise photo. >> Oh, yeah. >> Yeah. >> I've been hearing a lot about Apollo 8. um lately, too. So, this person is hats. off to you. >> Uh Jim Levelvel was on both Apollo 8 and.

Apollo 13. He traveled to the moon. twice, but never had the opportunity to. land. >> That is so sad. >> Uh signed a space geek, Noah Aloy. Nice. work, Noah Aloy. >> Aloy, >> great name, too. Thanks a lot for. getting in touch with us. We love space. geeks. We love to put you guys in. headlocks and rub your heads with our. knuckles until you go stop. >> It's called a noogie right here on. Earth. >> That's right. Um, if you want a noogie. from me and Chuck, send us a spacegeeeky.

or any kind of geeky thing. We love that. kind of stuff. You can go on to stuff. you should know.com and follow our. social links and you can send us a good. oldfashioned email. Wrap it up, spank it. on the bottom, and send it off to. Stuffpodcast at iheartradio.com. Stuff You Should Know is a production of. iHeart Radio. For more podcasts, [music]. iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio. app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you. listen to your favorite shows.