Selects: How the Negro Leagues Worked | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW

hey everybody it's me Josh and for this. week's select and in honor of Black. History Month I've chosen our 2016. episode on the Negro Leagues it's a. story that follows an arc a lot like. another episode we did on the Harlem. Globe Trotters where we have a group of. people who were discriminated against so. they went off and formed their own. League their own thing showed their. greatness and then were eventually. co-opted which left some of the people. who'd helped build what they had out in. the cold and it's also a story though of.

great feats of athleticism and social. heroics as well and even if you're not. into baseball I guarantee you'll like. this episode so. [Music]. enjoy welcome to stuff you should know a. production of iHeart. Radio hey and welcome to the podcast I'm. Josh Clark with Charles W Chuck Bryant. and there's. Jerry and this is the stuff you should.

know sportsy Edition. sportsy I think really we should air on. just the side of History well I even put. a note in here if you don't like sports. listen to this one anyway yeah because. this is about much more than baseball. yeah this is about uh history and. about overcoming adversity yeah like. it's very interesting story because and. we'll get into this but I think people. we better tend to think of the Negro. Leagues and that's what this is about.

the the baseball Negro Leagues M which. is what they were called y we don't use. that word anymore no but you call this. that because that's what it was right um. you tend to think of it in a certain way. which is only yeah well baseball was. segregated and they couldn't play in the. white leagues and that's awful which it. is and was but there's another side to. it too yeah yeah this good point where. these men and these business owners were. empowered and uh and the players and. yeah and.

yeah that's just a tease I just wanted. to wet their appetite for people who. hate Sports my appetite I'm sitting here. like keep going yeah so I think we. should start with a little bit of. History right so just a brief primer of. American History okay we'll start with. slavery it's a good place to start the. trans Atlantic slave trade yeah uh built. this country yep and frankly I'm just. going to come out and say it I think. some of the major issues that the United. States faces today.

comes from a uh lack of accountability. for slavery um. really is contributing to a lot of the. inequality and a lot of The Strife that. we still face today and have faced over. the decades yeah so you've got slavery. and then you had the end of slavery you. had the Emancipation Proclamation which. a lot of people say oh well that was. great Abraham Lincoln spoke some magic. words and freed the slaves and. everything was great yeah it was just. perfectly uh equal after that right no.

no so it took the the union to win the. civil war um to begin to enforce the. Emancipation Proclamation in the South. and in Texas apparently Texas were were. among the last holdouts and there was. slavery going on in Texas like years. after the Civil War was over oh yeah. yeah they were just like we it's not. going to pay attention to that sure so. um the civil wars fought the the part of. the the Union victory of the Civil War.

was coming into the South and saying. like all you Confederates you guys are. out of power and as a matter of fact. this power vacuum is perfectly willing. to be filled by um freed blacks yeah uh. so go ahead run for office um become. judges like become part of the the. Reconstruction power um and that lasted. for a very very short time the the white. Southern former power base who were. leading the Confederacy and even on who.

weren't necessarily part of like the. actual confederate government or even. the Confederate Army but just the people. like in your town who used to own the. Sawmill or whatever right that guy came. back in power within a couple years and. the white Southerners who' been. supplanted when they came back into. power they remembered the black people. who had tried to take their positions. right and so it got ugly yeah and so. rather than having actual legal slavery. it came in other different hor percious.

forms which came to be called post. reconstruction the Jim Crow South yeah. and boy we need to do one I've had it on. my list for a while on Jim Crow period. yeah um how about this first of all. where'd you get this other good really. good article it was on um the major. league baseball website was it yeah. um in the prehistory section of that one. and this is just to show you the tone of. things uh in 1857 there was a Supreme. Court chief justice yeah uh Roger Tanny.

who um it's funny that the way this. writer put it he said he's campaigning. hard for a spot and the American scum. Hall of Fame like that that's pretty. funny yeah uh in His official writing. this is the Chief Justice of the Supreme. Court said uh negos were so far inferior. to whites uh that they had no rights. which a white man was bound to respect. this is the Chief Justice of the Supreme. Court yeah I think I need to say that. like four more times yeah before it. sinks in that was two or three this is.

what was going on despite the. Emancipation Proclamation despite the. 14th Amendment well that was actually. before it that was that was during the. slave the time of slavery yeah yeah yeah. just to excuse that guy but after after. that despite the amendments to the. Constitution despite all of that it's it. took the to the 1960s to even begin the. slightest bit of real progress yeah. that's true not quite true CU it history. is littered with people who made.

advancements they they and I don't want. to knock that but uh in a systemic. manner toally you're you're right it. wasn't until the 60s but part of the. problem too was and this is a valid. point uh other courts had said like. those is Justice Henry Billings Brown. said legislation is powerless to. eradicate racial uh instincts or to. abolish distinctions based upon physical. differences uh basically what he's. saying is like we can create laws mhm. but you're not going to change Public's.

Mind by creating laws you can't like. abolish Prejudice right and so if white. people think that black people are. inferior to them who are we the. government to say otherwise yeah or to. try maybe and legislate our way out of. it even right so in I think 1896 there. was a court case called plusy versus. Ferguson yeah and in py versus Ferguson. the Supreme Court upheld and legitimized. and actually made.

um real the segregation that had already. been going on um ever since. reconstruction or ever since the end of. reconstruction the beginning of Jim Crow. laws right. so the the United States was officially. segregated in. 1896 but baseball had actually. segregated years before that but. not as far back as people think and a. lot of people think that baseball had. always been segregated up in until.

1946 yeah when Jackie Robinson broke the. color barrier I think 99% of people. think that Jackie Robinson was the first. black American to play pro baseball. including me until yesterday when we. started researching this yeah oh did you. know this already yeah I mean I'm I'm a. big baseball fan and a bit of a student. of its history so I knew okay so tell. them Chuck well. uh who the guys were specifically well. yeah so in 1867 I think 2 years after. the Civil War there was already baseball.

remember Abner double Day created. baseball in what 1839 oh in like 1300. and that's but that's a legitimate story. right that's not like he really did he. was the inventor of baseball and it did. happen in coopertown New York and all. that right yeah okay I don't know about. was he in Cooperstown I believe so okay. well that makes sense so uh within uh. just a couple of decades there was the. National Association of baseball players. they were the league right yeah I mean. not within a couple of decades a couple. of years oh yeah like literally two.

years after the end of the Civil War. there was a a a African-American team. called uh I actually don't know what. their name was but they were out of. Philadelphia and they said we want to. join your league which was the National. Association of baseball players at the. time and they were rejected as a team of. course at the time and uh but that. didn't mean that there were not players. individually right uh that's a huge. caveat yeah it was a little bit later in. 188 6 finally and not for too long we.

had two brothers uh Moses Fleetwood. Walker and well day Walker yeah and uh. Moses who do they play. for the Toledo blue stock that's right. baby my hometown integrated baseball. team in the 1880s you were totally right. uh Moses was uh he was older he played. 42 games for the team uh well they only. came along and played in six games Moses. 263 That season uh and they were the son.

of a physician oh yeah like the first uh. black physician in Toledo nice and um. went to college uh played baseball at. Oberlin then Michigan yeah. so I know the Wolverines I didn't know. Oberlin even had. Sports well this is the 19th century I. think they phased him out phased him out. in favor of uh debate acoustic guitars. and debate I know a lot of people that. went to Overland weirdly really. well my good friend Robert shahadi from.

Boston that you met that came to our. show okay uh Lucy way went to overlin. didn't know that uh David Reese really. went to Oberlin okay and I feel like a. couple of other people yeah it's got a. nice reputation yeah great name too. Oberlin Oberlin it sounds ivy league. yeah Oberlin the sound of. quality Oberlin sounds Ivy leish right. that's on their. t-shirts uh although we do need to give. a shout out there was one guy in 1879.

William Edward White who substituted and. played one game oh yeah who was. officially and this is a little murky. history-wise because we don't know much. about him or how it happened but. supposedly he played one game uh as a. professional baseball player as a black. man is that right yeah and this was when. 1879 okay so the Walker brothers are. playing for too in. 1886 right correct and actually this. article on how stuff works gets wrong. says that um they just played for the.

team for one year before the team went. under um that's not the case as a matter. of fact the Moses Walker they may have. only played together on the team for. that one year Moses Walker had played. for years before them yeah and actually. Moses Walker and um there were several. other players at the time in 1886 and 87. there were at least four black players. in the minors but the Walker brothers. were playing for Toledo which was a. major league team right correct um but.

the presence of Moses Walker actually. brought to the four this kind of. simmering resentment um and kind of a. the the big elephant in the room there's. a black guy on your team right what are. you guys doing and so Toledo actually. went to go play the white socks in. Chicago and the white socks had this. like their great player of of that. season I think in 1884 who was it cap. Anon great nicknames back then so cap. Anon said he said some horrible things.

and ultimately was like I'm not playing. if that man's on the field yeah and um. Moses Walker was actually injured and. still was like oh well I'm definitely. going on the field today anyway yeah so. he dressed out and um I'm not sure if he. actually played in the game but he was. like part of the team and cap. Anson was not indulged the Toledo was. like we're not taking our guy out he's. one of our players so cap Anson can go. suck an egg and cap Anon sucked an egg. he was really mad but um the the the.

issue that day that dispute at kamsky. field um brought to the four the the the. concept of integration and ultimately. segregation yeah among major league. baseball teams and it actually increased. the pressure among owners and managers. to to get rid of the black players not. just in the majors but in the minors. yeah there was another player too I read. another story about um and well get to. Roy Campanella he was a he was better.

than Jackie Robinson at the time uh a. catcher who was just amazing Hall of. Famer and he had a that was a white. pitcher it was like you know he was a. great catcher but I didn't want to play. with him so I would when I pitched to. him I would just ignore his signs and. through whatever I want like to his own. detriment and to the team's detriment he. uh he just wouldn't take the signs what. a putt I know career sabotage.

essentially yeah I don't think he lasted. long either and Campell is in the Hall. of Fame so he can right the other guy. who knows uh I want to give uh these. names all out though the four uh black. men and the minors in 1866 besides Moses. Walker we had Bud Fowler Frank Grant and. George stovie and as far as I'm. concerned all these dudes are American. Heroes so um all of a. sudden they succumb to pressure in 189. 90 after hate mail and death threats to.

the coaches and managers and umpires and. uh you know basically everybody the. players themselves and they said you. know what we're going to shut it down. officially in 1890 we can no longer have. any uh black men in our league so here's. the thing they never officially did that. they had the minor league ban black. players that way into the major was. through the minors well and it was never. on the rule books either it was it was. an official non- Gentleman's Agreement.

right because eventually when it was. broken it wasn't like a rule was broken. right it was just an Unwritten rule. right exactly which paved the way for. branch Ricky to to break that unbroken. rule without actually breaking a rule. yes yeah good point Chuck you want to. take a break uh yeah let's do it. Lear with. josua and. Char stop you should. [Music].

all right man so 1890 it's now there are. there no black players resegregated in. Major League Baseball or minor league. baseball in America right that's right. that actually p the way for one of the.

great unsung chapters in baseball. history which was the creation of the. Negro Leagues yeah and in a true show of. American Spirit and uh determination. and just love of the game uh these uh. these men got together they formed their. own teams and they did what's called. barnstorming yeah which is pretty. awesome and they would load up cars on a. bus and they would go from town to town. and take their show on the road and they. would get a game up wherever they could. and wherever people would pay a couple.

of pennies to come watch a baseball game. um they were playing white players and. these barnstorming games yeah or black. players or Latino players yeah uh yeah. because that's a definite overlooked. segment of the early baseball history or. Latino players oh totally and one of the. cool things about the Negro Leagues is. they were integrated they had they had. Latino teams like the Cuban uh Kings out. of New York I believe yep and one white. guy all right so Barn storming is going. on uh like I said they would roll into. town they would play whatever teams that. could play and uh it started to gain.

some momentum like people started to. follow these players yeah and they. actually got fans and there was a former. player named uh Andrew rubbe Foster who. owned one of those teams and he said you. know what uh I think we need our own. League yeah if they won't let us in. their league let's start our own because. um besides the fact that people want it. there's money to be made here yeah and. as a matter of fact so this barnstorming. thing I want to talk a little more about. that right yeah um one of the reasons.

Barnes tourman came about was to make. ends meet but it was also because these. teams had to figure out a way to put on. games as cheaply as possible yeah all of. the stadiums at the time were owned by. whites and the whites apparently were. not very friendly to the idea of black. black teams playing in their their. fields so if it were just like black. teams playing one another the white. owners of the fields would just charge. and exorbitant out these guys were going.

basically anywhere they could find a. place that would stand still long enough. for them to play a baseball game on. that's what they would play and they. play like three games a day oh yeah. every day yeah and they all traveled. together and like um hung out with one. another and spent a lot of time together. so like that the the Negro Leagues came. out of this um kind of camaraderie of. barnstorming together yeah which is. pretty awesome yeah it's very cool so. yeah this guy rub Foster he owned the um.

Chicago American Giants and confusingly. there's also another negro team called. the Chicago Giants and the St Louis. Giants yeah yeah but could be like St. Louis versus Chicago but if it was. Chicago versus Chicago well which one. the Giants well which one the American. Giants okay now I understand not just. the Giants but Rube Foster was like. this this booster of boundless. enthusiasm this guy literally put. together the first real Negro League.

yeah and when he was basically removed. from it the the whole thing fell apart. that's how how much of a driver this guy. was yeah he's in the Hall of Fame too. yeah he was a catcher I think uh oh I. don't even think he was in as a player. but he was yeah I think just for his. achievement I got you um although it may. have been both I don't know but uh in. 1920 he said all right here's what we'll. do let me get these uh seven team owners. uh of the midwestern League are doing. these you know barnstorming uh traveling.

shows basically let's get together in. Kansas City seven all black teams uh in. addition to those two Chicago Giants we. had the Cuban Stars the Dayton Marcos. the Indianapolis ABCs and the very. famous Kansas City monarchs yeah and St. Louis Giants uh all and this is the. really like great thing about the story. all of these teams except for the. monarchs were blackowned teams right so. so not only do you have black uh players.

careers developing yeah you have like. Black Enterprise developing in a in a. time when there were very few Avenues of. opportunity for black people to advance. in business yeah in in in a sense where. they own the business this is a really. good way to do it yeah and not only that. like the the Major League Baseball site. points out like this. was like it should be embraced in some. ways because this at a time was the only. one of the only ways that minorities.

could fully like Excel to their fullest. potential right you know yeah and that. was a a point of that article that I. thought was pretty cool is that one of. the one of the things they lamented. about the segregation of baseball during. this time um is that we'll never know. how Babe Ruth would have stood up. against Satchel Page pitching to him. because they never got to play each. other so the truly great players are. truly great at during this time within.

their own skin color yeah you know you. can't say they were the greatest in. baseball because they were two. legitimate um parallel leagues going on. at the time and yeah they played each. other sometimes but if you wanted to sit. down and put stats against stats you'd. be very hardpressed to do that right uh. sure all Tai Cobb Babe Ruth uh Christy. mat like we know they were good like. we're not knocking their talent but who. knows what it would have been like and a. truly integrated League yeah and.

actually it's funny you bring up Tai cob. because I was like oh yeah Ty cob was a. huge racist I wonder what he thought. about the Negro Leagues and I looked it. up and I found an article from a guy who. argues that ta cob was not the um the. horrible racist that he's made out to be. these days written by Jimmy Cobb there. he found well he he actually did site. his son and I think his son's name might. be Jim Jimmy yeah oh wow um but the guy. found an article from maybe the 50s or. something 19 52 where ta cob is quoted.

at length coming out in favor of um. integration integrated baseball yeah. saying like of course these guys should. play as long as you know they conduct. themselves like uh professional baseball. players like why would they not be able. to play I'm totally in favor of it. interesting I like did Ty Cobb say this. I think that bears more research yeah. you know because he was supposedly very. racist yeah that's not what this guy. says all right I'm going to look into. that that's not what his son.

says uh I'm not doubting you of course I. just want to Sure know I'm with you I. understand uh so we talked about the. integration of the Negro Leagues which. was awesome uh pretty soon other leagues. formed not just teams yeah uh there was. one right here in the South the Negro. Southern league with teams from uh right. here in Atlanta dude do you know the. Atlanta team played directly across the. street Pon Leon Park yeah where there's. now a Staples in a Home Depot and a. PetSmart and a Foods how like funny is.

that yeah um if you walk into Whole. Foods and listen you can hear the ghost. of a bat cracking on a ball yeah this I. don't think this was the first team in. Atlanta that played in The Negro. Southern League because they folded that. same year but the Atlanta black crackers. uh we also had the Atlanta Crackers. which was the white team um we had the. Atlanta black crackers and it sounds. funny that we say Ponto Leon uh not. ponon but that's how we say it here it's. the street that fronts our office. building Pon St Leon himself would have. punched you in the stomach if he heard.

you say his name like that though uh but. that's the street in Atlanta that fronts. our office and if you go and look on the. internet you can see these awesome. pictures of this cool little baseball. stadium right there hundreds of feet. from where we sit yeah really neat yeah. um and now you have Whole. Foods you just have to listen closely go. pay $7 for Artisan mayonnaise. yeah if you're lucky $7 oh that's just.

for the uh the just for one smear yeah. just one. smear did you hear Whole Foods got. caught like with uncalibrated um scales. for their hot bar stuff like it's not. already expensive enough yeah awful I. expect a lot more from them yeah you. know never get anything with bones at. one of those oh never or liquid what a. waste yeah you throw half of that. chicken like away yeah you paid for it.

sure or just you know grind that chicken. bone up and eat it and get your money's. worth yeah like peel it off with your. teeth spit the meat into your into your. little basket and throw the bone back. into the hot bar yeah oh I didn't think. about that sure that's a great idea and. then you can say I'm no chump yeah I'm. just go around screaming I'm not paying. for that. bone um all right so where are we we're. the the Negro Southern League folded the. Eastern colored League open in 1923 and. then finally in 1928 the American Negro.

League formed and that was. uh that was when things like they they. called eventually the American Negro. League and the American I'm sorry the. national Negro League the majors of the. Negro Leagues right like that was where. the the Crim decrim played and um the. the everything's going pretty smoothly. except two things happen right um there. was even like a Negro League World. Series there's a best of Nine the City. yeah the Kansas City monarchs narly beat.

uh the hildale team they're from Darby. Pennsylvania which I guess is near. Philadelphia um in the first one in 1924. so there's like there's a there's these. leagues have established themselves by. 19 1924 they have their own World Series. going right yeah um but just within a. few years there are a couple of hits to. the league that ultimately led to the. the Negro Majors disbanding um one is. that Rube Foster suffered a gas.

poisoning in a hotel room yeah in a. hotel room in. Indianapolis he was found unconscious. yeah and there's some theory that um. like everyone believed in ghosts and. spirits and mediums in the 19th century. because they were all being poisoned by. the natural gas that was like leaking. into their kitchens and homes all the. time right well this guy had like an. acute poisoning and was found. unconscious and after that uh when he. regained consciousness was nursed back. to health he lost his mind and uh he.

just kept getting worse and worse and by. 1925 I think this happened in. 1924 1925 he was institutionalized yeah. and by 1930 he died of a heart attack at. age 51 yeah um and again his guidance. was so integral uh in this first. incarnation of the Negro Leagues that. you know when. he was institutionalized obviously they. weren't like well what does the league. do next yeah he was in an institution um.

and the league started to falter and. fall apart and eventually that coupled. with the depression the onset of the. depression yeah really kind of led to. the unraveling of the first Negro League. yeah and this uh the Major League. Baseball site um you know these. were they profited on certain days of. the week uh Sundays were big days. because they were play double headers. but the fact is um black Americans. didn't have a lot of expendable money. to throw at going to baseball games sure.

even though they're you know pretty. cheap that was commiserate with what. people made at the time unless you were. one of the Walker brothers whose dad was. a physician yeah they probably had a. little money sure um but they were. playing so I'm sure their parents got. him for free probably so so it's all. just a moot point I wonder if they did. get free family tickets back then I. would hope so I that's got to be as old. as tickets right probably we we got to. do an episode on tickets guess. list uh so they were making a little. money on Sundays they weren't hugely. profitable overall even though they were.

known as somewhat successful like uh no. a lot of these guys were still. barnstorming on their off days yeah and. these are the players you know trying to. make ends meet like the owners. themselves were struggling uh here and. there um white people came to see games. sometimes um especially when they were. exhibition games against white teams. right because they love to go out there. and see the see something they had never. seen before yeah which uh many times was. the black team mopping the floor with. the white team yeah um although I it.

seemed pretty evenly matched like from. what I gathered it wasn't like lopsided. one way or the other yeah like they were. good competitive games yeah there are. plenty of um white players who are. better than the black players and there. are plenty of black players who are. better than uh White players yeah yeah. yeah I would say evenly match is a good. way to put it so if you had an. integrated League you would get the best. of both right which is eventually what. we got plus also in some of these cities. Chuck the there they were not just. baseball was segregated but just with. within the city you had a white team and. you had a black team and that's that's.

evidenced in the names of some of the. black teams like the black crackers or. the black Yankees yeah yeah um there. were the Yankees and then there were the. crackers right so if you were a white. player or a white person you're probably. a fan of the white team and you weren't. going and watching the black teams play. right um so they list out four things. here on the site they said the two. leagues uh the the American and National. uh Negro Leagues were Northern and. basically City dwelling teams right.

couple that with um there weren't a lot. of black people living in Northern. cities at the time uh The South was you. know was way more uh well I want to say. integrated but it wasn't integrated uh. way more black people living in the. south at the time yeah which is I wonder. why the southern Negro League didn't. take off like a rocket then yeah I mean. probably for the other reasons like you. couldn't afford to go to the games and. all that stuff yeah yeah that's a good. point uh black people that were in the. north uh didn't have a whole lot of.

money and so basically all that adds up. to not a lot of audience buying tickets. and the only way to keep a league of. flat is to sell tickets and to sell. concessions right same as it is today. yeah so all those things couple with uh. Rube Foster and the depression their. their greatest champion and probably. sharpest mind uh sadly succumbing to. mental illness and then the depression. and that was the end of the beginning of. the Negro Leagues right yeah that was. the end of the first one yes and there.

were more to come and we'll talk about. it right after this. Lear with. josua and. Char stuff you should. [Music]. all right so uh it didn't take long uh.

the old saying you can't keep a good man. down people wanted to play baseball they. were good at it um they thought there. was more money to be made in leagues and. so uh what happens is these numbers guys. yeah get involved yeah and uh a numbers. man is the numbers game was basically. like a an illegal unsanctioned street. Lottery right so numbers guys had a lot. of money and some of them said you know. what let's put money into starting. baseball teams in leagues yeah and one.

guy in particular in Pittsburgh uh Gus. Greenley great name uh he was a bar. owner in Pittsburgh he bought the. Pittsburgh crawfords in 1931 he said. well I've got a team but I don't have a. league so two years later he formed the. second negro national league and uh. other numbers guys bought in and all of. a sudden they had another League going. yeah um and this basically kicked off. what's known as the Golden Age. of the Negro Leagues yeah um starting.

about 1931 32 33 when when these other. teams came about and um greenley's Team. uh himself was it his no I'm sorry it. would have been right across the uh. River the homestead Grays yeah they. eventually migrated back to Pittsburgh. over to Pittsburgh yeah so they were the. same team that went from one town to. another or they weren't Rivals no I. think there was still the other. Pittsburgh team but from what I. understand the homestead Grays.

eventually became part of Pittsburgh. okay or maybe there was another team I'm. not sure but I do know they eventually. went to Pittsburgh cuz you know. Homestead we've been there we did a show. there yeah yeah okay um and I was like. are we going to the right place when the. car was taking me so Homestead used to. have not just a team they used to have. the best Negro League team possibly ever. oh yeah wait easy for uh nine. consecutive years they won the pennant. right yeah nine years in a row Josh.

Gibson cool Papa Bell and buck Leonard. some of their Stars yeah just some of. them in 1935 they had no less than five. future Hall of Famers on on the team. five that's amazing point to a team that. has five future Hall of Famers on it now. or ever did uh well some some of the. Yankees teams did over the years but. like I don't think anything right now oh. yeah now like even the best team right. now doesn't have five future Hall of. Famers certainly not the Braves no we. don't have one H I don't know I could.

see Freddy Freeman hitting the the Hall. of Fame one. day oh really I don't know I haven't. been watching the last couple Seasons no. I mean he's our best player but on. Freddy the best player on the worst team. in baseball right not very good Casey At. The Bat uh all right so we did mention. that um there were exhibition games. going on and things really picked up. with the exhibition games now because. they were a little well funded and this. is when um. white players would come and see the.

teams playing I mean it it was basically. more popular than ever uh in both. communities yes and um we said that they. had the um the Negro League World Series. going on right yeah um they there was. actually another game that came out of. this I think it was um it might have. been Gus Greenley I think it was who. came up with it was the East versus West. Allstars game yeah and that became. bigger than the world Series in what. ever was in the Negro Leagues yeah it.

was huge yeah so um that became kind of. like the de facto Big Game of the Year. rather than the World Series for them um. and they played it every year I think in. kamsky field oh really yeah in Chicago. because you know east meast west in. Chicago that's right that's what it says. on the t-shirts at least uh so players. are starting to make some like the top. players are starting to make some pretty. good money at the time uh you can't go. any further without talking about uh. Satchel Page Leroy Satchel Page dude he.

was um a. pitcher very interesting dude maybe the. greatest pitcher of all time in the. sport of baseball maybe he he was. eccentric he was an Entertainer yeah uh. he was like the Usain Bolt of his. day people loved him oh okay except he. didn't like to run that would make a. little different true he even said he. didn't like to run yeah what was his. quote he said that um training for me is. rising gently From the Bench back onto.

the bench right. yeah so he had have you ever seen video. or I guess you know film of him pitching. yeah with those old timey baggy baseball. pants and all yeah that was the the. style but his um he had a weird windup. he had this sort of double windmill that. he would do with his pitching arm and. then um when he was younger he had a. great fast ball and he had he was noted. for his control like Greg Maddox like in. his pinpoint control yeah like.

supposedly could just put a baseball. within a half inch of where he wanted it. to be which is big big deal for a. pitcher sure um as he lost his fast ball. over the years he learned basically. every pitch Under the Sun like he. pitched until he was 59 years old yeah. he first he first signed in the uh. Majors white Majors uh at 42 yeah 42 R. 42y old rookie Tech the oldest rookie. ever in the in Major League Baseball and.

I think the oldest pitcher ever oh as. well yeah yeah um he was even older than. Gaylord Perry how old was he no he was. in his 40s oh was he like Nolan Ryan. Gaylord Perry a few pictures Nolan Ryan. made it to 50 no not 50 but he came. close like pitchers notably have been a. little older which is crazy because like. their arms yeah yeah but they're not you. know they're not like uh running around. and batting like other players yeah but.

you're right like Freddy Freeman like. the stress on the the stress on the arm. is amazing so uh one thing uh that that. was problematic or is problematic when. you're going back and looking at the. Negro Leagues is that um a lot of teams. were allowed to depending on the league. were allowed to set their own schedules. yeah um stats weren't kept quite as um. uh well as they were in the white. leagues yeah we don't know Satchel pages. real lifetime stats no but in full there.

are some estimates and they are high oh. yeah so one that I saw was that Satchel. Page had I think it was in this um this. article on mlb.com which eventually will. say the author's name right yeah um they. said that he had 300 career. shutouts 300 career shutouts and this. guy says in italics not wins yeah. shutouts right yeah if you don't know. baseball Shut Out means means you have. pitched a game where no one scored a run.

right and back then they were probably. complete Game shutouts meaning he never. came out and was relieved by another. pitcher right he would have pitched like. all nine innings back the in the day. they used to do that way more than they. do now okay so he had 300 career. shutouts 1,500 wins is the estimate that. that's on. mlb.com yeah to put that into. perspective for non-baseball fans again. if you have 300 wins wins not shut outs. wins then you're a Hall of Famer yeah.

and in fact they don't think there will. ever be another 300 game winner again. because of they are more pitchers in the. rotation now they usually have five guys. instead of four they don't pitch as deep. into games they rest them a lot more so. it's just we may not ever see that. happen again right just because of the. way it's built to also put in. perspective sa young is um regarded as. one of the best pitchers ever in in. Major League Baseball top award after. him exactly he had 76 shutouts which is.

amazing he had the most wins ever still. in Major League Baseball uh at 5'11 so. Satchel Pig had conceivably three times. more wins than the the the highest win. count ever in major league and that's. counting his entire career I assume. which again was very very long sure it. was a very long career but that just. makes it all the more amazing especially. as he gets older yeah like. let's let's say that people don't say uh.

don't count the Negro Leagues as being. in the top League at the time like cut. it in half and he's still way ahead of. everybody else yeah if you subtract 50%. of everything he did and the fact that. he sat in a rocking chair in The Dugout. and had like a huge personality it's. just awesome yeah so he learned all. sorts of pitches by the end of his. career he was pitching uh knuckle balls. and he he was famous for the the. hesitation pitch which he invented which. was uh when he got to the major leagues. they were like that's illegal you can't.

do that it's called the bulk yeah and uh. he was like all right well no he's like. no it's called the hesitation pitch. don't you know it was very sneaky um you. know it's like you you act like you're. pitching then you stop and cuz his the. he was like you know I got guys up there. that are starting to swing cuz I'm so. fast like when they see me winding up. they're starting to swing yeah so if I. just put a little slight pause there. then they're swinging and then the ball. comes so it was a very very tricky. little pitch um um and he was making. between 30 and 40 Grand a year in the.

Negro and this is also with uh. appearances and stuff like that right. but in the Negro Leagues which is. about half a million dollars today yeah. amazing amount of money at the time you. know and th those appearances. um if you were a team owner that has. Satchel Page on your team uh you might. let him go make some scratch and. probably take a cut yourself. by lending him to another team whose.

attendance was struggling yeah and all. he had to do was advertise for a week. that Satchel Page was going to be. pitching one day and you would sell out. so he would help other Negro League. teams that were right that that were. struggling yeah to be a draw yeah uh and. here's one little cool thing about our. own Atlanta Braves in uh 1968 Satchel. Page was uh lacking one more season to. get his Major League Baseball pinion and. uh was out of the league and retired and. the Atlanta Braves signed him as a.

player coach uh like Terry Pendleton. yeah he was never a player coach was he. no but he was a player and then a coach. oh oh yeah Pete Rose was a player coach. was he really like he managed the Reds. and played for them I didn't know that. and bet on them yeah uh but they signed. him to a one-year deal so he could get. his Major League Baseball pinion that is. awesome which is really cool class what. year was that 1968 that's really cool. yeah go Braves so if you see a picture.

when I saw a picture of him in the. Braves uniform I was like wait a minute. he never played for the Braves and he. really didn't it was it was sort of you. know just a little uh sneaky way to get. him in there that's cool which is great. um all right so Satchel Page is killing. it other players were killing it it. would not be long before. somebody in the white leagues somebody. said the talent is too good somebody has. to be the first to make this move and.

break the color. barrier yeah right you know that was the. thing like this the the Negro Leagues. were ultimately as we'll find out. victims of their own success the the. players that they supported and and. brought into the game were of obvious. Major League caliber oh yeah in any. major league they were the best in the. world they were just playing on. segregated teams and so finally a. group of people but especially it.

usually comes in the form of one guy. named Branch Ricky yeah did Tom Hanks. play him no Harrison. Ford no maybe well I didn't see the most. recent Jacky Robinson movie was Arison. Ford maybe I've seen him portrayed in. other. movies I can't tell if it was him or not. because the actor didn't have a diamond. studded earring in but Harrison Ford. could have taken it out for the role uh. this guy named Branch Ricky was he an. executive or a manager for the Dodgers.

he was uh he was with uh he was an. executive with the Dodgers and he said. and this was when they were in Brooklyn. right yeah he said this is ridiculous. there that we need to break this color. barrier there's plenty of great players. out there that I want to sign I'm going. to break this unspoken Rule and he. looked around to find a player who was. not only good but who he felt could. withstand this horrendous. yeah reception that whoever the first.

black player would be would definitely. receive and who did receive and he found. it in the in the person of Jackie. Robinson yeah that's a that's a huge. Point um because like I said ja Roy. campanell was probably better player at. the time than Jackie Robinson but if you. see The Jackie Robinson Story uh I. didn't see the recent one like I said. but I just know a lot about his story he. was the right guy he had the temperament. he had the leadership mhm um Roy. campanell take your head off well yeah.

he did he was a tough guy yeah uh but. Jackie Robinson was was the man in every. way and we should also shout out to the. road being paved uh by people like Joe. Lewis and Jesse Owens before Jackie. Robinson as far as just White America. accepting mainstream black athletes into. their lives yeah and I don't know if it. was on this or on there's a site called. negr League. baseball.com um that has a really good. article called The Negro League Baseball. 101 or something like that it's just.

it's just the basics there's a definite. story to the whole thing right yeah um. but they point out that um probably more. than anything that helped break the. color barrier was um blacks serving in. World War II oh yeah serving alongside. um white soldiers and and stories coming. back from the fronts of like hey these. guys are killing Germans just as fast as. any any white guy yeah um and. at the time America was like well we. love that about people exactly so uh.

when they returned um the black soldiers. came home to a different America that. they helped change by fighting in World. War II that's pretty cool and I mean. that the timing of this apparently is. not coincidental that Jackie Robinson. was signed in 1946 a year after World. War II in for sure yeah uh so Branch. Ricky was um he was a very puritanical. guy he would often lecture players on. sex and drinking and stuff and uh he was.

he wasn't just some benevolent. benevolent champion of the black man. yeah that's that's a good point man. because a lot of times stories like this. end up being about the guy who took the. chance and paved the way for the black. player but he did he did but he was an. ideal. emphasis it's just too easy sometimes. for the emphasis to go onto that where. it's like well the black player like. became he was one of the greatest. baseball players of all time exactly. let's let's put it this way if Branch.

Ricky hadn't wanted to sell tickets by. Fielding a good team he would have never. signed Jackie Robinson he was a. businessman the Dodgers sucked at the. time did they and um but he was an. idealist I mean he was very much like no. like this is wrong and they should be. allowed to play yeah so okay so he was a. complex human being like all other human. beings he can't just be shoehorned into. an easy caricature no that's great so. Branch Ricky complicated human being he. selected Jackie Robinson and it was a.

great selection yeah Jackie Robinson. played one year in the miners which was. ridiculous um they should have just like. he spent his entire life playing in the. miners uh they should have just promoted. him right away but I think they just. wanted to ease that transition he won. the batting title in the miners his only. year there and then uh won Rookie of the. Year in his very first year with the. Brooklyn Dodgers yeah and uh that was. April 15th 19 1947 was when uh he made. his debut which was very very historic.

day yeah an amazing day that B major. league baseball has really like honored. Jackie Robinson to the fullest now yeah. and they should great but Jackie. Robinson definitely threw open the. floodgates within four months of uh. Jackie Robinson being. signed or no I guess actually being. called up to the majors yeah two other. guys um were signed both in July. and I think that year there were a. number of other um black players.

suddenly playing for uh White Major. League Baseball which is suddenly not. you now just Major League Baseball not. white Major League Baseball that's right. yeah uh Larry Dobby Cleveland Indians. Willard Brown the St Louis Browns Henry. Hank Thompson the St Louis Browns Dan. Bankhead Leroy Satchel Page made it. finally uh and of course Roy Campanella. uh among others these were the first uh. African-Americans in Major League. Baseball and um by.

1952 just a few years later there were. 150 black players and by. 1954 all but four major league teams had. black players there were a few hold outs. yeah the uh Boston Red Sox notably were. the last they waited till 1959 13 years. after Jackie Robinson's debut season. yeah in the in uh the miners so with the. signing of Jackie Robinson and all the. players to follow like you hinted at. earlier mhm um and like this article uh.

plainly says it was was a very. Bittersweet end um in one way it was. great the color barrier was smashed. League was being integrated and they. were getting their due um although it. was a struggle but in another way it was. also sad that this league that had so. much gumption and such a a great. like we'll do it ourselves then attitude. right uh and Empower these men to play. in these people to own these teams and. start their own leagues so it was.

definitely like a a weird time in. history yeah it is like I think nowadays. there's much more of a a reverence and a. bit of mourning for The Disappearance of. That League um but you know in another. way like I said it was smashing the. color barrier was way more sure way more. better just went into Hulk speak so the. yeah it would have have been a much more. satisfying end to the whole thing if the. Negro Leagues had poached the best.

players in the um white Major League. Baseball oh actually you know what the. best possible thing could have been was. if the white major leagues absorbed. those teams and owners in ownership as. part of one big league nice but they. were like no we're just going to take. your players yeah give them to us yeah. so um that is Negro League Baseball the. history of it yep officially expanded in. 1948 and uh this article says into the.

1950s there were still a few teams. playing here and there and in the early. 1960s even there was like one final team. or I guess one final pair of teams I. guess they had to play somebody MH still. playing right or they could scrimmage. themselves yeah it says the Negro. American League was the last to throw in. the tow in the early 60s yeah so yeah. more than one team and this article. makes a point today or at least in 2012. um Major League Baseball was 40%.

non-white which I was like what I would. have guessed it was the opposite of that. that it I would not have guessed 60% of. major league baseball players are. white yeah and you know there's a big. push I think like the one of the least. represented demographics now in pro. baseball are African-Americans really. yeah partially because of the rise of. Latino players um um and then partially. because they there's not a big a push to.

play baseball these days as Kids In. America and so there there there's a lot. of concerted efforts to try and get. baseball going again in Black. communities um which is awesome sure you. know yeah I know I was pushed my dad was. like get out there and get hit in the. head with the ball see I wasn't allowed. I I had to play Church. Softball so. lame uh so then the color barrier broken. and now the last vestage of any sort of.

color issue is the Native American slurs. that are rampant. in in all sports as far as teams go yeah. Atlanta Braves once we get past that. maybe it'll be finally totally. legitimate uh if you want to know more. about the Negro Leagues you can type. those words in the search bar at houseu. works.com you can also go check out this. amazing uh article uh called Negro. Leagues a kaleidoscopic review it's on. mlb.com and check out negr League.

baseball.com they have like all sorts of. great profiles on the players and all. that stuff oh we never said the. nicknames oh yeah should we rattle off a. few of those sure all right boy these. are some good nicknames how about jelly. Garder or spoony Palm Turkey Sterns. turkey Sterns he's a Hall of Famer. coppery Thompson or steel arm Davis I. think you mentioned um cool pop Papa. Bell yeah cool Papa Bell that is the. greatest name ever uh possum poles Ace.

Adams King Tutt Smokey Joe Williams. bullet Joe Rogan not yeah Joe Rogan did. you know that rats Henderson boy turkey. Sterns that might be the best that might. be my new hotel pseudonym cool Papa. Joe yeah but no one would buy that at a. hotel registry oh yeah if you go up and. say turkey Sterns they definitely go. for those are great. names all right oh yeah okay so uh now.

now that we said turkey Sterns it's time. for listener. mail uh this one I'm going to call short. and sweet um what do you call it when. you uh remember something with a. pneumatic device uh no pneumonic pum. pneumatic is when you remember it while. you're pumping air up and down was it. nomadic you remember it while you're. wandering around. monic of course nice I feel like a dummy. uh howdy Josh and Chuck friend.

recommended your show to me recently and. I love it love it you satisfy all my. nerdy entertainment requirements while. I'm at work um you seem to have a bit of. trouble recalling the order of uh. taxonomic taxonomic there you go. categories boy I'm going to have trouble. in this next show. categories uh during woolly mammoth uh. not woolly mammoth as our typo. originally said yeah it was my fault. that's all right you just forgot to know. Wall-E uh here's an easy memory trick we.

learned in high school biology Kings. play chess on fine green silk mhm. Kingdom film class order family genus. species I love that stuff cuz I will. never forget it now that's not a. pneumonic device is it it's. pneumatic I have no idea why this is. still in my head over 10 years later. well that's exactly why sure uh Katie so. hope that helps and that is Katie from. West Texas thanks a lot Katie from West.

Texas we appreciate that um Kings play. chess on green silk fine green silk I'll. never remember the fine part yeah uh if. you want to get in touch with us you can. send us an email to stuff podcast. howstuffworks.com and as always join us. at our home onth web stuff you should. know.com. [Music]. stuff you should know is a production of. iHeart radio for more podcasts my heart. radio visit the iHeart Radio app Apple. podcasts or wherever you listen to your.

favorite shows. [Music].