Selects: How Schoolhouse Rock Rocked: Featuring Bob Nastanovich of Pavement | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW

Hey everybody, happy Saturday and as. promised in our Saturday morning. cartoons episode, which by the way, I. hope you woke up this morning and went. downstairs and at least streamed some. cartoons for nostalgia's sake. But as. promised in that episode uh here is our. past Schoolhouse Rock app. that we recorded uh quite a number of. years ago and we thought it was apropos. that we put it out the same week as the. old Saturday morning cartoons app. Uh we. really had a great time recording this.

episode. Schoolhouse Rock was a a. fundamental source of learning and. entertainment for both of us growing up. and uh for most of Gen X I would say. So, I hope you enjoy it all over again. Here we go with how Schoolhouse Rock. rocked featuring Bob Nystedt of. pavement. [Music]. Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a. production of IHeartRadio. [Music].

Hey and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh. Clark. There's Charles W. Chuck Bryant. There's Jerry. And this is Stuff You Should Know, chip. off the block. [Music]. of your favorite schoolhouse. Yeah, that. was uh. we just heard the theme song. If you're.

between the ages of. Well, were you into it? Yes. >> Okay. So, you're what? 41? I'm 40, dude. >> 40? Yeah. So, probably younger than you. even a bit. Let's say if you're between. I was definitely toward the tail end of. it. >> Okay. Let's say 38 to. 50 years old. Actually, yeah, that's not. true. So, let's say it was up to 85. So, I Schoolhouse Rock? Yeah, no. Yeah. So, I would say. >> in that range.

>> 35 to what? Uh 50-ish. All right, that's what you. agree on. >> A little more, 55 maybe. So, that. 15-year period you were lucky. Yeah, like if you just heard that theme song. and. like something inside your body happened. emotionally. in your brain, then that means that that you grew up in. the '70s and '80s. Uh I think the heyday of Saturday. morning cartoons, personally. Mhm. Uh as a fan of Schoolhouse Rock, one of.

my favorite favorite favorite things in. the world. Yeah, it was pretty great. I. still love it. >> Yeah. Like I still. listen to this stuff. semi-regularly. Oh, do you? Yeah. It's been a little. while. When I went back to um to. research this, I listened to or watched. a bunch of them. >> Yeah. And um. they all just came flooding back. Yeah, and the um the writer of this article. actually interviewed, didn't he? Bob Dorough? It's it sounded that way.

unless he's a big fat liar in his. author's note. Well, I I just remember. when this article went around like the. first thing we do when there's an. article at House of Forks is there's a. um email that goes around everyone where. people kind of suggest uh. kind of questions you can answer and. stuff like that. >> Yeah. Um. I think we ever really talked about. that, did we? >> I don't think so. Nine years in, that's. a secret. Uh and people say, "Hey, you. should think about this. You should do. this." And I said, "Somebody should try. and interview Bob Dorough." It's like. he's 93 years old and you know, you can. still get in touch with the guy, I.

think. Yeah. And apparently this dude. did and sadly I think all we got was. like one quote. Yeah. Well, he was on. his way to like a jazz gig in London. when he called him. I don't know. I bet you there was more. in there than this. I was a little disappointed. Oh, you're saying uh I got you. I wanted. like more. more select pull quotes from Mr. Dorough. You wanted like I called Mr. Dorough. He answered. Hello, said Mr. Dorough. >> I We should have interviewed him for. this. I don't know why we didn't. I. don't either. Apparently he's easy to.

get to. Uh and there's. well, I'll get to that. Never mind. Should we get in the wayback machine? Yes, let's go back to the '70s, the. greatest decade Yeah. >> history of humanity. Probably. I I'm not joking. I'm a fan of '60s, '70s and '80s. It'd be tough for me to. decide. The '60s were a little too hippy. for me. Oh, yeah? Love the '70s, though. Yeah. I mean, love the '70s. And.

and not even as a golden age. There was. a lot wrong in the '70s. Nixon was. president during the '70s, okay? Yeah. >> Lots of stuff were wrong in the '70s. But. something about that decade just hit all. the boxes. Yeah. I just love it. I do, too. And it reminds me of my childhood, which is great because. you know, I had a good childhood. It was. fun. I have a lot of We talked about. that in the nostalgia episode. on how nostalgia is the correct path in. life. Yeah. Even though John Hodgman.

doesn't think so. >> Yeah. Nuts to that. So, uh early '70s. there was a gentleman named David McCall. and um. he was a. he co-owned an ad agency called. McCaffrey and McCall. And as the story goes, he was on. vacation with his family and he knew his. son was having some trouble in math um. remembering specifically multiplication. tables. Yeah, no matter how much he. yelled at him every night, he couldn't. get multiplication. But they were in the. car and this kid was. singing.

uh as the story goes Rolling Stones uh. Rolling Stones song and he was like, "Well, you know that. Why can't you remember the other stuff?". I don't think he was that gruff. I don't. think so, either. But it did hit him. He. was like, "You know, my son remember can. He has no problem memorizing things. But there's something about these. multiplication tables. So, I wonder if. there's something to. uh sing song Right. and turning learning into not only just. music because that's not a new thing. People been doing that forever. Right. But popular sounding music. Right. And.

like pairing them with concepts to. teach, right? >> Yeah. To to make kids understand. difficult concepts, right? And. it's it's so weird now, especially after. in the post-Schoolhouse Rock world. >> Yeah. that that yeah, of course people do. that. Like that's a technique that you. use to teach kids. But apparently. no one else is doing this at the time. Yeah. Let's make learning fun.

>> So, this is a this is a pretty. interesting idea and it really. it it germinated in just the right guy's. mind because this guy, McCall, was like. you said, he was a partner in this. advertising firm and they basically. specialized in. in doing the same thing but get you. getting you to buy something. >> Yeah. He was saying, "Maybe we could do. the same thing that we do to sell people. stuff but to basically sell education to. kids, to teach kids using the same. techniques that we use in advertising.".

Yeah, like they would see a a jingle for. a product that would get lodged in. someone's head. and they would say, "You know, why can't. we do that same thing? Like it would get. lodged in a kid's head and they would. have learned something instead of bought. something." Right. But you could also. buy stuff. If you learn enough stuff, you can buy even more stuff. Uh so, he went to um. one of these uh I think he was a. creative director or co-creative. director named George Newell, ran it by. him. He said,

"Great idea. Get someone on it." And he. threw a cigarette at him, got out of the. office and commissioned a uh one of. their writers. They had jingle writers. on staff uh or at least working with. them and they said, "Go write. something." Uh it wasn't very good. >> Didn't you feel bad for this person? I. did, but you know what? It could have. died there. We never would have had. Schoolhouse Rock. But this person went. down in history as the contributor to. Schoolhouse Rock who who didn't didn't. make it. Yeah. Sad. >> Or the person who almost killed.

Schoolhouse Rock. I guess so. But McCall was like, "No, this idea is too good for this." Yeah, which is really, you know, a great thing. and a lesson in persistence. So, he went. uh Newell was a jazz piano player and he. went to his buddy, one Bob Dorough, one. of my heroes, uh who was was a and is a. great bebop jazz pianist and uh composer. and said, "You can write a jingle, too. Why don't. you try this out?" And uh here's the one. quote. We might as well read it. Mhm.

From uh. 93-year-old Mr. Dorough. "I don't know. how I lucked out. Apparently they tried. other songwriters, but most of them. wrote down to kids. When I met McCall, he said, 'Here's my idea. Give it a try, but don't write down to the kids.' When. he said that, I got a chill. I have a. high opinion of children.". And that was sort of the key right. there. They weren't. uh songs like written in a remedial way. because it was children. Right. Itsy-bitsy spider, give me a break. Oh, that's a classic. So, um But you're right. But so, this.

idea germinates in this right guy's. head. He happens to end up indirectly. getting in touch with this guy who has a. high opinion of children and he happens. to be a jazz composer. >> Yeah. Things are starting to like. happen. It's basically the hand of the almighty. at work here. That's right. Uh so, Dorough goes home. Um he has a. daughter, gets out her textbooks and the. first thing he comes up with, to me, one. of the best, Man, it is far out. Three.

is a magic number. Uh was the very first Schoolhouse Rock. uh song written because the first thing. they wanted to tackle was math because. of. uh McCall's son. Yeah, this this. composition that he came back with, Three Is a Magic Number, um. it's uh. I I when I hear it, it's super cool, but I don't I I'm really surprised So. everybody was like, "This is yes. Really? something out from this.". >> Oh man, I loved it.

>> It is it's cool, but it just doesn't. seem like the basis, the keystone of. Schoolhouse Rock to me. I'm surprised. Well, it's one of my favorites. That's. great. >> Uh because it dealt with multiplication. Uh and not only that, but like you said, got a little trippy with the symbolism. Faith, hope, and charity, heart, and. mind, and body. >> Right. Uh it was about and I I've wanted. to do a podcast on three, the number. three. Because it's. >> very special. >> It is very special. It is a magic. >> on zero, why not three?

Oh man, I forgot about that. >> Remember? I think my brain melted a bit. there. It was a good one. It's tough. Zero's tough. >> It is tough. Um and not at all magic, right? Not. really. Um so. regardless, if you would have been. working there, you would have been like, "Meh." And everyone else. enjoyed it. You'd be like, "I'm going to go get a. bagel.". I'm going to go work on this process. cheesy account. Um. I did think of Mad Men quite a bit when. I was uh researching this.

It was sort of that same time period. Or. I guess toward. No, Mad Men didn't make it into the. '70s, I don't think. >> thought he did because wasn't he. supposed to be D.B. Cooper at the end? And that was the '70s. >> Yeah, Or early I guess that was '71. I. think it did crack into the '70s. Not like Boogie Nights did. That was all. '70s. Into the '80s. No, that's right. It cracked into the '80s. >> Yeah. With that uh. cheese set. That song you recorded?

>> Well, no. I was Well, yeah, that for. sure, but I was thinking about when it. when the the the party, the New Year's. Eve party Oh, with the roller girl. >> 1980 with Bill Macy. Oh, yeah. Ah, man. What a great movie that was. >> Yeah, the movie's almost like 20 years. old. I believe it. We're old, Chuck. I know, but those those pop culture references. are the ones that really hit home for. me. The What? The ones from the '70s? Well, when I think of like Boogie Nights, it's. like, "Oh yeah, that was just like a few. years ago, right?".

Mhm. And then someone says it's. celebrating its 20th anniversary. I'm. like, "What?" Or like when I see an. athlete's son. or daughter. >> Yeah, it's weird to see the. >> is playing the same sport. >> The rookies are now like the old coaches. and managers in the sports now. Man. It's bizarre. Uh so everyone's impressed at McCaffrey. and McCall. Um but then they did a pretty smart. thing. They went to McCall was on the. board of the Bank Street College of. Education uh in New York there, and he. took it to them. It was just a song at.

this point. Said, "What do you think as a learning tool?". Uh they used it, played it for the. students, and they were like, "This is. awesome." Right. >> They were responding. Again, I'm not. >> little Josh. He's just sitting there with his arms. crossed. He's scowling. Never seen him. so mad before. Uh so the the students liked it, the. agency liked it. So they knew they were. onto something. They got their art. director. uh Tom Yo, Y O H E. Oh, you're going.

with Yo? I'm I'm going all out with Yohe. Okay. Tom Yohe. And um said, "Put put some animation to. this. Draw out some storyboards.". Because that was the beauty of. Schoolhouse Rock to me was. uh it was a combination of everything. It wasn't just the song. Like the songs. are great. Um and we'll we'll get more. to the music here in a bit, but it was. the combination of the visuals with the. song Yeah. and the fact that you were. learning something in such a unique way.

It was just like the perfect storm of. awesomeness. Yeah, the songs on their. own would have stood up on their own. And initially like they they they. planned to just release an album of cool. songs like this. But it was when Yohe. started sitting there right like drawing. some of this stuff out. >> Uh-huh. Uh that's I mean, Schoolhouse. Rock is not one or the other. It's the. combination of those two things. They. play off each other so well. >> Agreed. Uh so they took um. Now they have these storyboards. Uh they.

take this to a guy named Radford Stone. He was their. account supervisor, the VP. um for ABC, and they said there's this. young upstart at ABC for their. children's programming named Michael. Eisner. Not if he's ever going to go anywhere. Sure. But right now he's running the the. kid shop over there. Um and let's bring. in because this guy knows a lot about. kids programming. Let's bring in Chuck. Jones to the meeting. Yeah. Shout out to. our friend Jessica. Mhm. Granddaughter. of Mr. Jones.

And uh. sat down in a meeting, played the demo. tape, showed him the storyboard. They. all turned to Chuck Jones. Said, "What. do you think?" And he said, "Buy it.". Buy it. That is how Chuck Jones talked. No, he. didn't. And Michael Eisner bought it, and uh. before you knew it, they were in. business. We're going to take a break. I think we. should. Josh is going to go collect. himself, and we'll be right back. [Music].

You all right? Yeah, I'm all right. All. right, we're back. [Laughter]. It's so strange. Um. So Schoolhouse Rock started on ABC. Saturday morning as a what they call an. interstitial. Yeah, we had some of. those. >> Yeah, it was it was it's programming. between the programming. that's not uh commercial. Right. When the creators of the program you're. actually watching weren't good enough to. make 22 full minutes, you round it out.

with interstitial programming. Yeah, exactly. Uh this is January 6th and 7th. was the first weekend in 1973. So I was. but 2 years old. Well, well, I was -3. Yeah, you you were. in the. upper atmosphere. Mhm. Just. >> Playing my lyre. >> Coalescing, waiting to be born. >> Flapping my wings. Uh and this was before like like you. said, this is the original thing was it. was just going to be an album called. Multiplication Rock. um until they realized that the visuals.

were important, they could put it on. television. And the first four songs. that first weekend were uh some of the. greatest. Aside from Three's a Magic. Number, uh Four-Legged Zoo, Elementary. My Dear, and My Hero Zero. Great song. Uh zero again. Yeah. Not magical, but it. is a cool number. Such a funny little. hero. Yeah. So he came along, they. counted on their fingers and toes. Right. So that when was that, Chuck? 1973? Yes. And I think that first one had. quite a was so it was up to so there.

were 13 episodes then if it went from. zero to 12. Yeah, and I think what they. settled on was um. almost like seasons. Right. >> Uh themed seasons. So the the first. season was going to be math related. Yeah. So um. apparently Bob Dorough had been off like. coming up with songs, didn't realize. that they wanted a song for each number. And he had started to to combine several. numbers in a different song. So He. didn't get the memo. He he didn't, and.

he finally did. And um. he uh. he was trying to figure out how to like. break the the songs apart, and he came. up with one called the Four-Legged Zoo. Have you heard that one? Yeah, it's it's. fine. Yeah. So-so? Not one of my favorites, but. I mean, they were all great. It's just. some stand out a little more than. others. Yeah. So what's your favorite of. the Multiplication Rock? Oh, well, Three's a Magic Number. Okay. Yeah. And and that was something else I. noticed about this. There are um for.

each season, there were. at least one standout song per per. season that just about everybody knows. Yeah. And I would guess Three's a Magic. Number's probably that one. Yeah, or. maybe My Hero Zero. That was a big one. That was a hit. It so much so that Bob. Dorough was up for. a Grammy in 1974. Yeah. For um. I. I think the uh whole album, right? Yeah, but the those jerks at Sesame Street. won.

If you're going to lose, lose to Ses-. Sesame Street. Yeah, and Dorough is like. writing and singing these initial first. few songs himself. >> saying yeah, all of them except two, and. he hired two other jazz musicians, Grady. Tate and Blossom Dearie. Great name. Grady Tate sang Naughty Number Nine, and. Blossom Dearie sang Figure Eight. But. all the rest of them, the other uh 11, uh Bob Dorough sang, and he wrote all of. them. So. >> Yeah. Yeah, they really struck gold with.

that guy. Yeah, I mean, he was he was. that initial genius behind this whole. thing. >> Yeah. And this is another cool thing. about uh Schoolhouse Rock that I. noticed. Um the people involved stayed. on for basically the whole run, the. initial run from '73 to '85. Yeah, it. seemed like a. project that everyone enjoyed working. on, and that was highly collaborative. And it just seemed like a good. experience. I don't think there's like. the VH1 special like the dark side of. the Schoolhouse Rock years, you know?

Uh so they move on to I don't know which. one is my favorite, Grammar Rock or. History. Um but they moved on to Grammar Rock. next. Yeah, that was season two. Yeah, '73 to '74. And and we should say I. don't think that these were um like I. don't think there were breaks in the. season. I get the impression that from. 1973. till 1985 when they had enough episodes, they were just running them like every. Saturday morning during cartoons. >> Yeah, I certainly don't remember like.

breaks. Yeah. Like it just seems like. every week they were there. Right. Um. so '73 and '74 you have Grammar Rock. which um. debuted. some people will probably say the. biggest of all time, Conjunction. Junction. Yeah. That's the one everybody. knows. >> It's great great song. Uh sung. as he sang many others including my. all-time favorite which I'll get to. later. Okay. >> to. But I know what it is. I bet you don't. Um he was Merv Merv Griffin's uh trumpet.

player, Jack Sheldon. who just had this voice that's just like. It's the Conjunction Junction voice. >> Yeah, it's unbelievable. Yeah. Very unique guy and. he kind of looked like Will Ferrell to. me. Like he should play him if they did. a movie about. They should do a movie about the whole. thing if you ask me. About Schoolhouse. Rock. Yeah, I think that would be. >> Well, there's no controversy or. conflict. It's just 2 hours of everybody. getting along doing great stuff. Who. wants to see that? Right. Um. so Jack Sheldon came along uh.

sang Conjunction Junction. And did you. go back and listen to that like for. this? Oh, yeah. I listened to a lot of. these. So that is a sophisticated song. If you listen to like that we remember. our poetry episode. Yeah. If you listen. to like the meter and the um the rhyming. pattern the rhyme scheme and the slant. rhymes they use. >> Yeah. Like for something that's made for. kids, it is not just rhyme rhyme rhyme. rhyme rhyme rhyme. Rhyme rhyme rhyme. You know, like it's a sophisticated. song. Um and it's pretty pretty cool.

Yeah, I think that's I mean I think. that's why it worked. That was the. secret. Is um It I guess it's that not. not talking down to kids. Yeah, and like. the music was was good. >> Right. Like if you listen to um. I mean those are a little sing-songy but. like. some of them were like pop music at the. time. Like the Verb song. That's one of. the funkiest songs I've ever heard. Mhm. Verb, that's what's happening. Yeah. And. especially that one like I I read this. great blog post by this uh.

African-American guy that was talking. about how Verb like meant so much to him. because at the time, you know, they. didn't have a lot of like cartoons and. stuff that that addressed the black. community at all. >> Mhm. And so all of a sudden you get this. cartoon that's got this super funky. music and this kid uh that looked like. him Right. having this great adventure. uh in the city and uh it just kind of. it's pretty pretty neat thing, I think. Yeah. And that was season 2 was Grammar, right? >> Yes. So apparently in that same season.

uh lady named Lynn Ahrens um was a she. was a copy. copy department secretary? Yeah, this is. where it reminded me of Mad Men. It's. like basically took uh. Peggy's. journey. Okay. >> From like secretary to superstar. I've. never seen Mad Men. Yeah, it's good. I'm rewatching it right. now. >> Oh, really? Yeah. It's that good? Yeah. So um. Lynn was a she was a secretary at the. advertising agency and apparently she.

was playing her guitar on lunch break. Another reason the '70s were great. Exactly. And um. uh who was it that found her, Newell? Yeah. >> creative director guy? Yeah, like in the. movie he's just walking down the hall. and hears this beautiful music and. stops. He's like, "What in the world's. going on in there?" Right. I mean it was Lynn Ahrens. And so they. took her and put her on I guess. part-time on the project. Um. and they. I I guess eventually made her a. full-time Oh, yeah.

>> songwriter which is pretty cool. Like. that was her gig. >> 15 of the songs. Right. Including some. of the biggest ones. A noun is a person, place, or thing. Great song. Interplanet. Janet, Interjections. >> It's a good one. A Victim of Gravity. about Isaac Newton. Interplanet Janet. sounds like Rocky Horror. If you go back and listen to it. >> Yeah, it kind of does. There's a a real. resemblance to it. Or Rocky Horror. sounded like Interplanet Janet. I went. and looked. Rocky Horror was 3 years. before Interplanet Janet. The movie or. the play? The movie. Okay, so the play. was even before that. Was it a play.

first? Oh, yeah. Oh, okay. Uh Meat Loaf was even in the play. Oh, yeah? >> Before the movie. Or I I'm not a play, I guess, musical. Sure. Which is a play with songs. >> play with songs and dancing. Uh. so the next one to come along was. America Rock or History Rock which. kind of vies for the best to me with. Grammar Rock. And that one tied into the. Bicentennial. Yeah, that was big deal. which you don't remember but I I.

remember being a little kid being 5. years old and uh it it took over the. country for you know, that entire year. >> Yeah, I know. There's like a. resurgence in colonial emblems and stuff. like that. You know that if you ever. walk past like um. a very very old person's house today, you might see like a flag holder that's. a black metal eagle Yeah. >> holding like some arrows maybe or. something like that. That is from 1976. Still there. Like a resurgence in Betsy.

Ross and colonial like knickknacks and. stuff. Yeah. I was I was just born but. it was there was a it created like a. high water mark that I was able to see. even you know, 4 or 5 6 years later. So uh. History Rock or America Rock um. featured some of the best songs, Mother. Necessity. Shot Heard Round the World. uh and No More Kings which is. maybe my second all-time favorite. >> Yeah.

Yeah, and that's the one that um. there was an album that came out in like. '95 '96 called Schoolhouse Rocks. Rocks. I think so. >> Schoolhouse Rock Rocks where they got. contemporary artists to cover. uh these songs. Mhm. And did you ever. listen to that? I I listened to the. Pavement one today. Oh, man. So I. emailed Bob Nastanovich today from. Pavement. Because as I said in the. previous episode, I tricked him into. being my email friend. Right. Um and I said, "Hey dude, uh would love.

to hear if you have any thoughts on No. More Kings. how you guys were approached, if there. any stories. what it meant to you, what it didn't. mean, whatever, let me know." Crickets. No, no, no. He emailed back. uh and then I said, "I'll call you on my. way to work." Called on the way to work. Crickets. Yeah, got his voicemail. And then as I. was coming in the studio, he called and. left a voicemail saying he was in his. minivan rocking out and he didn't hear. the phone ring. Oh, that's funny. Which. is very funny to me. But um.

I told him I'd like to hear what he has. to say cuz he said he has a a tale to. tell about that experience. >> Man, we're going to have to record it. after this. Well, yeah or. if. >> Maybe it can be like listener mail. Yeah, like if I can get him on tape then. we'll tag it at the end. Okay. If not, if it ends up being an email version or. something, I'll just maybe recount it in. my own dumb words. Or you could ask him if we could read. the email and make it listener mail. Oh,

for real? Yeah. Like a real listener. mail? All right, it's not a bad idea. So. anyway, uh so listen up for the end for Bob. Nastanovich's story about No More Kings. Cuz if you listen to that CD, it's like. the Lemonheads and uh Ween It's a super. '90s CD. Moby? Moby and they're all most. of them are pretty straight-ahead until. you get to the Pavement song. And it's just all Pavement. Like Malkmus. changes words. He There's like laser. guns at the end and it's just.

wonderfully Pavement. Like. quintessentially Pavement. Yeah. Like leave it to them to just kind of. throw it all out the window and do their. own thing. Yeah. I liked it a lot. Um Three-Ring Government. I didn't. really know that one. That one was good. And apparently they um. so it basically talks about the. different branches of the government. >> Yeah. but puts it in the context of a. three-ring circus. And it's um. really I mean aside from the fact that. it compares the government to a. three-ring circus.

it's not at all offensive but apparently. they sat on that one for years and. didn't release it until like 1979. because they were worried about. offending the government. Which is a strange thing to worry about. Yeah, uh through today's lens. Yeah, but. even still I mean this is like. post-Watergate. It's not like everybody. was like no. Right, right. You know, we. we couldn't possibly call the government. a three-ring circus. Yeah, that's true. That is weird. It seems like that would. have been a good time to do it. Yeah, I think so. Uh but the most famous.

song um from that year uh. by far. was Sheldon's I'm Just a Bill. Is that your favorite? No. Okay. Um that. was uh composed not by Mr. Dorough but. by a man named Dave Frishberg. And um. I mean that one was just a a mega hit. Sure. >> straight to number one on the Billboard. charts. It it's it's like as far as Schoolhouse. Rock goes, that's the.

that's the um. that's the cultural icon that signifies. the whole thing, I think. Close close. second would be Conjunction Junction. Maybe they're tied, I don't know. But I. just feel like I I'm I'm Just a Bill is. the most readily recognizable one. Yeah, and and it's just amazing when you look. back though like. the learning that was going on and the. teaching that was happening. Yeah. These. kids us, we were learning how a bill. becomes a law. Right. In the in the best. way possible. Like better than any well,

not any teacher. There were great. teachers back then. I would say like any. dumb teacher that's boring their kids. But it it definitely struck a chord with. me. Sure. You know? Yeah. And that's how. I remember a lot of this stuff. And. apparently too, adults were also. noticing Schoolhouse Rock at the time. Supposedly, there were plenty of orders. This was. before video cassettes. Yeah. Before. they were widely available. I guess in the home. I'm trying to think of how they would. have played them if they didn't have.

video cassettes. But anyway, apparently. lobbyists and legislators would get in. touch with ABC and be like, "You got to. get me a copy of that I'm a bill thing.". >> Give me a Betamax. Because I want to. show it to my staff to train them on. this kind of stuff. Well, I think they. asked for cassettes at least at the very. least so they could play in the music. I. see. Maybe that's what they meant. Probably. Okay. An eight-track. Yeah. Um. and then there was science rock was the. year after that. That was '78 and '79.

Which was pretty good. Interplanet Janet, Victim of Gravity. >> that one. It was so weird. What, Interplanet Janet? >> Yeah. Yeah, it's a good one. And then. the Telegraph Line song, which um. I think that was written by uh. Miss Arnes too, I think. Oh, yeah. And. that one was really like. I mean, it was. you literally learned about the nervous. system and how the body communicates uh. to the brain by listening to that song. That's the one that they wanted to play. for med students. Yeah, and they did.

Amazing. Some of them. All right. Well, let's take another. break. And um. jeez, we'll we'll cover the the sad last. season of Schoolhouse Rock after this. [Music].

So, Chuck, Schoolhouse Rock for the. first four seasons was the epitome of. creativity. Even their process was. creative. Yeah. Like the songwriters. would I guess they would say, "This. season our theme is, you know, going to. be science or going to be grammar, whatever. So, go go forth and figure.

this out." And the songwriters would. come up with songs and they'd pitch them. to the creative team. And so, there was this process of. creativity and it started with the. creatives. That's the key here, right? >> Yeah. That's what made it just so legitimate. and so. wonderfully creative this whole time. It. started with the creatives, right? Yeah, and they would pretty cool, they would. get them vetted by that Bank Street. School of Education. Yeah. So, they. would get make sure everything was like, you know, was right.

>> Yeah. And then ABC would be like, "Oh, let me see it." And then they'd say, "Oh, I guess it's fine." And then they'd. start to storyboard it once they had the. the lyrics set in stone, right? That was. the first four seasons. The fifth season. they said, "Die creativity, die!" And. they reversed the process and they said, "Hey, songwriters, here are your. assignments now. We're we we think kids. should know more about computers. So, we're going to just screw this whole. thing up, okay?" Yeah, this is a part I. don't get. It says the ABC program exec.

Squire Rushnell. commissioned this because. there was the idea that children were. afraid of computers. I guess. I don't remember anything but. there being like excitement about. computers. I don't remember any kids being like, "I. don't want to go near that.". >> Yeah. I remember kids being like, "Oh, that's cool. Let me sit down and". >> Usually it was the parents that were. afraid of computers. >> Well, I think therein lies the problem. Yeah. With season five. So, we should. say season five too. If you notice, we. jumped quite a bit from 1979 to 1985.

Schoolhouse Rock was running all those. years on Saturday mornings. They just. weren't any new ones. They were the same. ones that they were rerunning. >> Yeah, the classics. >> 1985, Squire Rushnell says, "Give me give me four episodes or six Is. it four or six? On computers." Yeah, and. we're going to call the season Scooter. Computer and Mr. Chips. What do you. think of that? >> So, it's what? Like a computer with a. bag of chips? It's like, "No, Mr. Chips. is a computer." Well, what's Scooter. Computer? "It's a kid.". And there you have it. And they said,

"Well, what about the Goodbye Mr. Chips, a great book?" And he went, "Ah, no. one's ever read that.". >> So, uh. It was a little confusing. We have. disdain for him. It's a little weird. I. know. I feel bad if that's not really. how it went down, but it sounds kind of. like that classic story, you know? Sure. Like an executive takes over the. creative and it just goes downhill. It's. usually how it happens. Um and I do feel. a little bit bad because, you know, the. originals were still involved. They got. Mr. Dorr back on board. >> Yeah.

And I think they did the best they. could, but I think one of the issues is. um. all the other seasons, you know, math. and science and history, it's all. civics, it's all baked in. Like that. stuff is classic and didn't change. When. you're writing songs about uh. data processing and basic. computer language, Right. a couple years later, like no it's not. relevant anymore. Right. You know? Yeah. So, it's sort of that's why no one's. ever heard of it. Plus again, they they. were like, "So, wait, Scooter Computer. is the boy or the computer he's hanging.

out with?" Right. And why is the. computer on roller skates? Yeah. Just. stuff like that, you know? It was a it. was a undignified end to something. really great. >> Agreed. And so, they pulled the plug on. the whole thing in 1985. They said, "Hey, this Mary Lou Retton lady, Yeah. we like her. She's got gumption. She's got apple pie coming out of her. ears. >> Gross. Um we love her and we want to put. her on TV." So, they put her. interstitials on. Yeah, ABC Fun Fit.

Uh and. >> Oh, I'll bet that was the same time when. Reagan made Arnold Schwarzenegger his. like fitness czar. Remember that? >> Bet. Totally remember that. The. presidential fitness test, right? Yeah. Man, I failed that so many times. Yeah, I think I was always sick that. day. It's like, I got to climb a rope? Yeah. Still to this day I've never climbed a. rope in my life. No. Made it this far. Yeah. I mean, I'm I'm going to be chased. by a tiger on the way home. Yeah, I was. going to say. That's how you're going to. meet your demise one day. You're going.

to be in like a burning building and a. rope's just going to fall from the. ceiling like a cartoon. [Music]. Uh. in the late '80s, um there was a student. at UConn, go Huskies, that said, "I want to bring Schoolhouse. Rock back." They started a petition. I. could not find this person's name for. the life of me. I couldn't either. Sorry, person. But ABC said, "You know. what? People want this.". Um and I guess it took them a little. while to get around to it. But in 1993, they brought it back. uh rerunning um all those classic tunes.

and and cartoons. And added some new stuff. Yeah. By Bob. Dorr and the gang. Yeah, they brought. back the originals. Mhm. And this this. season was called um Money Rock. And they they did a substantial number. of new episodes, but again, written and. performed by all the original people, but a good. starting at 20 years later. >> Yeah. Um and they had things like um. 750 Once a Week, which is about.

maintaining your budget. >> Yeah. Tyrannosaurus Debt, which is about. the national debt. >> Uh-huh. Um. and plenty of others. I remember The. Tale of Mr. Morton. That was another. Lynn Ahrens offering. >> What was that one about? I can't remember exactly. I didn't go. back and rewatch it, but I remember He's. like lost all his money on scratch-offs. or something. I don't think so. [Laughter]. Um. but you know, again, the reason why this was that it. worked so well is cuz these were. men and women who were used to selling. products for a living. And it was just.

sort of a natural. uh a natural thing for them to do as an. ad agency. It seems weird at first when. you're like, "An ad agency came up with. Schoolhouse Rock?" But it kind of makes. perfect sense when you think about it. >> Yeah. Yeah, I mean, they. they were selling this these ideas to. children. in ways that were. comprehensible to children, that were. approachable by children. Um. And they just kind of took the kids'. points of views and and packaged it for. them. I think is a good way to put it.

Yeah. So, besides the Schoolhouse Rock Rocks. CD, which I still have, actually. Yeah, that. '90s thing created a bit of a resurgence. of it. Yeah. >> in popularity, for sure. Boy, that Blind. Melon Three Is a Magic Number was great. >> Yeah. Yeah, Shannon Hoon. >> that one. Did you like them? Yeah. I think Soup, their second album, is one. of the great underrated records of the. '90s. I don't recall that one. Man, it was. good. >> I only heard their first album. But they. I They were.

>> They I think they made like the pop. charts right out of the gate and just. kind of were unfairly labeled as a pop. group even though they really weren't. They were Because. >> more to them. >> No Rain song and the catchy video with. the little girl and everything. Yeah, Soup was good, man. You should check. that out. I will. >> good. Very sad what happened to him. He OD'd. and they didn't find him for a while, right? Uh I don't remember that part, but maybe. I think I think that no. nobody missed him for a little while or. something like that. What a waste. Yeah.

Um. in 1993 though, there was another. resurgence. I guess that was before the. the CD. when they took it to the stage with. Schoolhouse Rock Live, >> Mhm. uh which kind of started out as. most uh great theater like this in a in. a. sort of a basement black box theater in. Chicago and it just grew from there to. eventually an off-Broadway run. Yeah, not just that. It started in the. basement theater of a vegetarian. restaurant in Chicago.

Just to add that extra little dose to. it. >> Yeah, why not? But yeah, it made it onto. off-Broadway. Yeah, it ran for four. solid years and then they had a touring. version. Um I remember wanting to see it, but. and I think I was living in. New Jersey at the time. I should have. gone. and seen it. I think I had no money at. the time. I think it still might You. still might be able to catch it. There's. a group called the Theater Bomb Theater. Bam Chicago. Theater Bam. Chicago. And they're still doing shows? They're still touring.

As far as I know. I need to do my. Free to Be You and Me live show. That's. one of my dreams. I've talked about that. before. The Isn't that Rosie Grier one? Yeah. Yeah. Man, the. >> Did he do the whole album or just that. one song? >> Just the one. It was conceived by Marlo Thomas. That's. pretty great. But um yeah, that was. another like that one hits me square in. the face still. Yeah. From childhood. Right in the breadbasket. >> Right in the breadbasket. Uh in '97 they had a 25th anniversary uh. package of VHS tapes. Yeah, so think.

about this. Like it goes off the air in. 1985 uh 1985 then all of a sudden '93. '94 '96 '97 there's like Schoolhouse. Rock everywhere. It will never die. No, and I think like this was one of the. first instances cuz dude. admittedly Generation X is extremely. nostalgic as far as generations go. Yeah. Very nostalgic. I would propose. that Schoolhouse Rock was the thing that.

kicked it off. Oh yeah? As far as Gen X. nostalgia goes. Yep. Well, it definitely was something that. was so drilled into our consciousness. Like it's a touchstone. Right. But I mean this resurgence of it. I think Oh yeah. is the is the first. example of just how nostalgic as a. generation Generation X is. Yeah. For. sure. That's that's mine. You got. Sharknado. I'm predicting that that will be rooted. out by historians in years to come. You. can dig that one out of the vault.

Uh. maybe at the place of your death like a. plaque next to that rope. that you couldn't climb. It'll be a memorial. It'll be like rope, jeez. You already. forgot? Right. Uh in 2013 Kennedy Center. had a a singalong for their 40th. anniversary uh 2,000 people in. attendance. Um pretty amazing. I would have done. anything to have gone to that. Um and then it's been. parodied and homaged over the years and.

everything from The Simpsons to Saturday. Night Live. >> Did you see Conspiracy Rock? No. >> Conspiracy theory dude. That was a TV. Funhouse bit, right? Yeah, by Robert. Smigel. It's one of the all-time greats, man. He nails nails the conspiracy. theory or nails Schoolhouse Rock. >> Yeah. But it's all about how these major. corporations like GE and Westinghouse. own the media. They own like ABC, NBC, all these. media outlets and how they can use it to. shape opinion and squash.

opinions that disagree with them or. their products and. choose what to report on. It is so good. Go watch it right now. It's on YouTube. But apparently there's a bit of a. conspiracy theory around it as well cuz. it aired on the actual Saturday Night. Live episode, but then when they reran. it and I think released that episode on. DVD, it wasn't there. They they edited. it out. And um. supposedly it was just because Lorne.

Michaels didn't think it was funny. Uh there's just no way Yeah. that that's. all it was. It was so I'm thinking no. Uh. it was such a smack in the face to NBC. and like all the other ones that. yeah. Well, and they just had one. couple years ago on that. uh was an homage to I'm Just a Bill that. was pretty great, too. Yeah. This was better. You got to see it, man. Yeah, I have a. feeling I have and I just don't know it. He nailed it. >> I'll let you know. I'll text you and.

say, I have seen it. And you'll say, Who's this? I don't have your number. So. the I I I actually ran across a little. bit as great as Schoolhouse Rock is, I. actually ran across criticism of it. What? Yeah. Oh boy. Are you going to. Should I just leave the room? Maybe. >> to get angry. >> You might want to. >> All right. So. they were teaching. very broad concepts to kids Okay. in. ways that kids could understand. Awesome.

ways. >> And when you're when you're coming when. you're coming at them with. multiplication Mhm. or grammar. whatever. Sure. But apparently. especially with the History Rocks or. America Rocks season depending on what. you want to call it. >> Uh-huh. that's where the criticism tends. to come out. So there's one called Elbow. Room. Did you remember that one? Got to. got to get you some elbow room. Right. Where it's about there's so many white. settlers that we just got to spread. westward. Oh, okay. I see where this is. going. Not a single Native American is.

shown in this west westward spread. They. actually mention that it's God's will. manifest destiny. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So. the whole thing kind of I don't want to. say it came under fire because it's not. like everybody's like, Oh yeah, Elbow. Room. Forget Schoolhouse Rock. Yeah. Very few people are, but there is. criticism of Schoolhouse Rock in that it. really kind of fed American children. this. the the popular line on things. >> Yeah. And it was just exactly the kind. of stuff where when you grow up you're.

like, Wow, I was really misled when this. was first explained to me as a child. Yeah. >> So Well, we talk about that a lot, too, about how. schools especially in like the '70s and. '80s uh. whitewashed a lot of stuff. Yeah. So this was part of that. I can. see that. I mean it was. and I'm not justifying it, but it was. definitely of the times. For sure. You know. Which is why yeah, I. think that they that these creatives. were like, We can't say this to kids. You know, I think that there's.

definitely been more of an awakening in. the in recent years, but I want to know. >> of Tears song in other words. Right, yeah. And this is another name for what. they were talking about like forced. removal was turned into get got to get. you some elbow room. So catchy though. I want to know um. Chuck because I'm not in school and I. don't have a child in school. I don't. have a child at all. Well, I have a. four-legged child. But. are they still misleading kids like they. did when we were young? Do we just.

assume now that we know the deal. that they don't do that any longer or. are they still doing it? So any history. teachers out there that are like fifth, sixth, seventh, eighth grade? Cuz that's when I remember really being. just overtly lied to. And then as we got. a little past that they started to be. like, Well, maybe the Native Americans. didn't really want to leave. And then it just got a little more. legitimate. So I I want to know. Teachers out there, let us know. I bet. the answer we'll get is that we've come.

a long way. and it probably depends on your. district. Oh, yeah. And maybe even your teacher. Yeah, I could see that. Um. I bet there's not like a one sweeping. answer for that one. But there's definitely been progress, you know. I would guess. You know who. would let us know is Tyler Murphy. Yeah, Murph. Let us know. Well, I know what. he's doing. He's doing all the right. things. Oh yeah, he's up on the desk. Yeah, yeah. Opening minds. It's great stuff. Uh so you ready for my. favorite? Yes, please. Uh Rufus Xavier.

Sarsaparilla. What was that one about? I'm not familiar. >> Oh, yeah? I have a hard time expressing how much. joy the song brings me Mhm. still. Yeah. I listen to it a lot. Yeah. If I'm ever. down, that's the song. That's pretty. great. It's amazing. It's the wordplay is. unbelievable. And it's another Sheldon. song. Right. Uh like how it's it's very. fast. So how he like every. uh I looked up to see if people did it.

live and stuff and everyone always slows. it down cuz nobody can always that fast? Well, it's just very. complex. And the whole idea of the song. is. is the complexity of all these nouns. that you can replace with pronouns. I. got you. I got a friend named Rufus. Xavier Sarsaparilla and you know, they. go to the zoo and there's an aardvark. and an armadillo and all these big. words. He's like, I could say that or I. could say he did this and we did that. and she said this. Nice. Uh. yeah. It's a word that takes the place.

of a noun. Like kangaroo. Can we play it? >> You know what? We wouldn't because of. law. Uh-huh. They should make a actually. one about copyright infringement. Right. It was started out as a bill. Yeah, so. we probably can't play enough of it to. do it justice. So I'd just say go and. listen to that song in full. cuz it's delightful. All right, I'll do. that. Man, they go to the zoo. There's. animals. They all pile on a bus. They. Yeah, this girl and Rufus Xavier.

Sarsaparilla. They Yeah, exactly. It. takes the place of a noun. Uh you got. anything else? No, but uh there there. probably will be a tag on this one with. Mr. Anastas or or with me just. recounting his tale. Got you. Of No More. Kings. So. uh if you want to know more about. Schoolhouse Rock, go read this article. on howstuffworks.com. And since I said. that, it may be time for listener mail. with Bob Nastanovich. All right, so uh now as promised or as. hopefully promised, we have.

uh via telephone in the studio Mr. Bob. Nastanovich who um. is actually a member of two of my. favorite bands of all time, both. Pavement and uh Silver Jews. And um it's a real treat to have you. here, Bob. We did a show on Schoolhouse. Rock. and talked kind of at length about. Pavement's efforts toward that uh. I guess late '90s. uh CD. and got in touch with you and you said.

you had a couple of stories to tell. It. was a uh we were in Memphis. We were. supposed to be making a Silver Jews. record. And um the singer of Silver Jews, David. Berman, decided he did not want to make. the record and he went home. And we'd already booked a week of studio. time. Silver Jews had. And. then subsequently we were. Stephen and myself and Steve West were. unceremoniously fired from Silver Jews. That's beside the point.

We were kind of like at all the studio. time. that um. [Music]. David was supposed to pay for. Sort of. bail him out, Pavement sort of took that. and. I made a record. So Stephen. Stephen thankfully had three songs and. we made Pacific Trim EP but. I guess most significantly. in regards to this project, Jackie. Farry, a dear friend of ours, was. supervising the Schoolhouse Rock Ah.

compilation. And she gave us our choice. of songs and it was. fairly obvious to us that. No More Kings, you know, um had a lot of appeal. It was always. our favorite one when we were kids. Boston Tea Party theme. Kind of. We were able to use the vocal stylings. of Steve West to our advantage, I. believe, for the first time in band. history. What did he do for that song?

And it all turned out to be We were very. pleased with it. Pavement were very. pleased with. all of it but um. And I I think that it's an outstanding. compilation and I I It's one of those. things in in Pavement's time that. I feel like we actually did a good job. on. Now, what what did. Steve West do for that one? He played drums and then um. all the deep voice rambling in the. background Ah. mostly him. He's got an incredible.

voice. Speaking voice. He's one of those people. you can hear. from 150 ft away even with a wind. He's got a beautiful deep voice so. we um. He's doing all like the. ranting and raving. Um. It was all pretty jubilant. We had a. good time. It's the only time the three. of us ever recorded together. as Pavement and um. But um.

I feel like we made a good choice and we. just love that song. We It was one take. Oh, really? >> overdubbed. Yeah, one take on the instrumental and. just um. some vocal dubbing. Probably took 8 minutes. Wow, and it was just the three of you? Oh, yeah. Yeah, just the three of us. We were the. only ones there because we thought it. was going to be Silver Jews and that's. that's the reason Silver Jews. So Kannberg and um. Ibold. were at home.

And um I don't even know if they were. contacted. We made that Pacific Trim EP, that song Give It a Day. were in the same session and. a couple other songs are on the B side. of that thing but. um. Now, Schoolhouse Rock was uh. It's kind of thing that popped in my. mind like, well, we have anything to do. and seems like I got this one song. It's. like, well, we have to do this thing for. Jackie. We have to do this thing for. Jackie. We were probably sort of. planning on doing it anyways but. Jackie at the time was a VJ on MTV. >> Uh-huh.

And she later became our. um. Well, she she was the nanny for. Courtney and Kurt for Frances Bean. Cobain. Oh, wow. And then she was a tour. manager for. Pavement. In fact, she has she's um been. battling cancer for. over a decade. Um. But one interesting artifact that she. owns is the actual. cardigan cardigans um.

button-up cardigan sweater that Kurt. Cobain wore in the famous MTV Unplugged. um performance. >> Oh, wow. Holy cow. >> Yeah. So. Yeah, she's quite a character um but. It It was her It was her project. and um. You know, she was a good friend and and. um. we wanted to do the best we could for. her and. didn't really care about anything else. We didn't even realize We We didn't know.

whether it was a good. tiny thing like a limited edition of. like 200 or whatever but. >> Yeah. Funnily enough, my wife, that was. the first Pavement song she ever heard. cuz her sister Oh, really? Yeah, my her sister bought the. Schoolhouse Rock thing when her sister. was like 14 and. my wife would have been about 10. And. she heard that as first time she ever. heard Pavement. That's pretty funny. >> And. Yeah, she likes it. >> We were talking a little bit about.

just your take and kind of just the. different takes of all the artists on. that compilation and a lot of them were. pretty straightforward and. I think I really like the Pavement one. the most because it was uh. it was kind of the perfect mix of very. straightforward at times and then just. totally Pavement Pavement-ized at times. Yeah, it's very We don't I mean we. Straightforward I don't think we're kind. of good enough to do things. straightforward like.

Like I think it's like you think of like. a band like Nickel Creek covering our. song Spinning on a Stranger. They can. and they kind of Americana'd it or. whatever but. >> Sure. Like in order to do like straight. things, you got to be. you got to be good or else you're going. to kind of humiliate yourself. Like For. example, like. R.E.M. doing like Pylon's Crazy. They. could do that pretty straight. >> Right. Cuz they have that sound. They just. you know, but I think like I've heard a. lot of cover songs where. it's like a great song and and like a.

somebody with a great voice, you know, usually like a female. will will sing it pretty straight and. just the fact that it's a. somebody with a gorgeous voice, you. know, covering a classic it sort of. works but. Now, we're None of us are None of us are. good enough to do that. We had to We had. to devise our own take on it, you know. Well, I thought it totally worked. Was. the Schoolhouse Rock um. I mean, was that something that you guys. were into or was there much decision I. mean, besides the fact that it was your. friend asking, was it something that you.

thought was kind of cool or uh. did you feel like you should do it. because it was your friend? >> idea. At the time we thought it was a. great idea and and at at that point in. our lives. um I. I'm guessing it was like '96, '97, somewhere in there. Yeah, yeah. Um we'd. forgotten. You know, you like that point where. you know, that. we hadn't heard seen or heard any of. that. The only one that I could really. remember off the top of my head at the.

time was like Conjunction Junction, you. know, >> Yeah, of course. What's your function? But like you know, those were some of the some of the first. songs when we were little kids, like. under 10 years old, that got stuck in. our head. Yeah. So yeah, I just thought it was I mean, if. anything I. the only negative I thought it might be. a little bit childish and corny. Um. But but you know, then it just came. together and. um it just seemed like a. very worthwhile. project to me and um.

You know, she was pretty earnest, Jackie. And uh. I'm happy it all worked out. It kind of. I think it's actually become like sort. of a. one of the more significant things that. Pavement ever did sort of outside the. realm of Pavement. Yeah, for sure. Um. while still being Pavement like. You know, I don't I don't even know. I'm. the kind of person in regards to that. band that would find out about things. the last so. Cuz I lived in Louisville and I was. always at the racetrack and. and um.

You know, people would say, "Hey, you. know what? You're going to be making a. new album in like 2 months." I wouldn't. know anything about it or like, "You. know, you're going on tour or you're. starting in London." I would like. You know, I I just wouldn't even know. And like so anything that rolled through. the door there like requests to do stuff. I never knew about them, you know, unless we were going to. do them, you know, so Right. Uh. You can see where I was on the Pavement. the Pavement totem pole. Well, man, I always call you Pavement. Pavement's secret weapon.

Uh Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think there was something about. your addition to the band that really. just sort of mixed everything up uh. whether it was, you know, the percussive. elements or just you coming in uh with. your your unique take on backing vocals. Yeah, I know. I just um. I think I presented the element. of really not entirely knowing what I. was doing and that was true. And the. funny thing about it is like. even at this point in my life when.

people who are completely unaware of. Pavement. um mostly from this industry, the horse. racing industry, like. heard I was I was in a band, even a. successful band, they can't even They. just It doesn't make any sense to them. and that Right. They'll also. um you know, they'll have to like look. it up on Google or whatever to realize. that. you know, we were actually like a band. that made records and stuff in course. And then um. And then. the funny thing is they'll always.

ask me to, you know, if it's. muso types or something I'm like a One. thing I'm really sort of unaware of. in. the human race. um I have no feel for are people that. like kind of collect. musical gear and take music really. really seriously and like playing music. really seriously and like jam and like. or just really like have this incredibly. dry approach to like. like gear heads who like really really. serious and like Yeah. People ask me to.

jam. And I don't I mean. my idea of. I don't jam. I mean I can't imagine. jamming like. What does that even mean? Like Right. Um. No, I'm the I'm the same way. >> awkward like it's always awkward like. people ask me to do something and then. I'll be like. Oh man, like uh. you know, like I got to figure out a way. to get out of this, you know, cuz like. >> Right. A my skills like they're not going to. really not going to believe I'm in a. band what like once I show up with like.

whatever I have two drums or whatever. and start hitting them they're going to. be like there's no way this guy was in a. band. Like this is a fake, you know, like. So, it's very strange very strange. Well, you just got to say no, man. I'm. the secret weapon and the secret weapon. doesn't jam. Yeah, like the like the spice and like. some sort of. bowl of burgu or something. I don't even. know. But I was just like I'm the whole. experience was. pretty magical. Um. it still doesn't really make that much.

sense to me, you know, I just uh. I really enjoyed it for sure, but. in regards to that that specific. project, that's something that went like. really smoothly. Like it never got to. the point. I mean it was literally like Steven I'm. sure probably worked on it. that morning or something, but when when. they press record on that School House. Rock thing, that thing was a humdinger. It was in and out the door Doug easy is. like that's good, you know, like Yeah, that's probably a good approach for. something like that cuz you don't want.

to overthink it and then it becomes a. thing and it's stressful perhaps. So, I. think that approach to just get in there. and like knock it out was probably the. way to go. It certainly worked out in. this case. Yeah, and it's a song that has no. history within the context of the band. Like you know, it's not like something. that we'd been working on or something. that been sitting there or something. that I've been played live or Yeah. You know, I mean I think that we had to. you know, pay pavementize it and give it. a bit of an original spin because.

that's the only way we can really do it. I mean like Yeah. >> like we were talking about with the. straight thing, you know, you can't. you got to have significance. Um you know, not that like you know, Steven and Steve West aren't talented. I'm not going to like those guys are. great, but like. in fact the fact that they're able to. like throw improvise Right. >> Um something like that's pretty cool. So, but I. I remember being really really happy. that. Steve West. who'd never really been used um.

in pavement outside of just playing. drums um that he was. that he sort of fit fantastically on. that Yeah. >> that recording. So, I sort of love that. about No More Kings. I love hearing him. in there. Nice. All right. Well, thanks. Bob. I appreciate your. >> Thank you, Chuck. telling us these. stories and um I'm going to think of. about a hundred more reasons to have you. on in the future. Yeah, anytime. Uh I'm going to call this one.

sad yet happy. email. Uh hey guys, my name is Sam. I wanted to. send you an email thanking you for your. show. Uh the podcast is actually a. rediscovery for me. My dad used to play. it uh back in 2009 when we would drive. up to the mountain to go skiing. I have. very fond memories of laughing and. nerding out with my dad and brothers. after a great day on the slopes. Can't. believe you guys are still going strong. after eight plus years. There is a. little more to my rediscovery of your. show though that I wanted to share. It's. been four and a half years since one of.

my brothers who was an amazing skier. uh died tragically to suicide. Uh since. I was in college at the time, I didn't. have enough time to properly grieve. Uh. recently I've been mulling through many. painful memories that I ignored in those. first three years. However, your show. unexpectedly brought back really happy. ones. Uh it has reminded me the fun. adventure and learning our family. enjoyed while listening to your show. when we were skiing. I remember laughing. hysterically with my family at your. jokes, rolling my eyes when my brothers. and dad would try to comment on your. show to sound smart cuz it was so creepy.

one of your favorite episodes. uh of ours was the one on cannibalism. Uh being a high schooler at the time, I. also really liked the show on flirting. cuz I thought I could put it into. practice. Needless to say it didn't. really work. The what? This month I went home for a week to. visit my parents and I went skiing with. my mom and dad for the first time since. my brother died. It was very painful, but also unimaginably special. Uh when. my family and I are on the mountain, I. feel like I can encounter my brother as. he was when he was healthy and full of.

life. I could picture him diving down a. slope that was way too steep with the. most enormous grin on his eager face. All in all, it was a great day. So, I. just want to say thank you for the hard. work in providing interesting topics to. fill my time, making me laugh, but also. inadvertently helping me cherish a. special time in my life. Man. That was heavy. That is from Sam and she. sends hugs. Sam, that is fantastic. Thank you very much for letting us know. We appreciate that. Uh and uh our best.

to your whole family. Absolutely. If you. want to get in touch with us like Sam. did and just lay one on us, we. appreciate it. Um lay it on us. Send us. an email to. stuffpodcast@iheartradio.com. [Music]. Stuff You Should Know is a production of. iHeartRadio. For more podcasts. myheartradio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen. to your favorite shows. [Music].