Selects: How Publicists Work | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW

Hi everyone. We're going to jump back in. podcast time to September 15th, 2015 for. this week's Select Selection: How. Publicists Work. Uh we've never had a. publicist. You know why? Cuz nobody. cares that much about us. So, it's. really not a job that would get a lot of. uh billable hours, if you know what I. mean. But anyway, it's pretty. fascinating, weird job. And uh we heard. from a few publicists I believe uh when. we recorded this. So maybe we'll hear. from some again. How.

publicist publicists publicists. work. Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeart Radio. Hey and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh. Clark. There's Charles W. Chuck Bryant. There's Jerry. So stuff you should. know. This is it. Boy, that sounded like you're.

introducing the final episode. My voice. This is it. Feels like it's the final. episode. You won't be able to talk. anymore. No, I'm getting there. It's not. true. You don't know that. Uh, how's it going? It's going pretty. well, man. How about with you? Uh, I. think both of us had a bit of a dark. time researching this article. Why? Well, because and we're going to get. Well, we're going to get flak. That's a.

teaser from publicists because what I. learned is that publicists are. professional liars. I I would say that. depends on the circumstance. Well, what do you mean? Well, you saying. there are publicists who don't lie? No, I'm saying it it depends on um whether. the publicist is going to the media or. the media is coming to the publicist. depending on the circumstance. What I am saying is no matter what who.

you work. for, if you are a publicist then a. percentage of your job will be lying. Right. Okay. Depending on the. circumstance. Yeah. So, so Billy Ray lie. about something good. Billy Ray Cyrus is. like, I am going to donate a bunch of. time and money to a local homeless. shelter. Yeah, you don't have to lie. about that. The publicist gets on the. horn, starts letting everybody know, you. guys should come cover this. Billy Ray. Cyrus goes and does that and.

everything's good. Then on the way home, Billy Ray Cyrus decides to celebrate by. drinking a bucket of tequila and runs. his car into a. uh whatever. Okay. The publicist then. starts getting calls and says he didn't. drink a bucket of tequila. That wasn't. even him. That's overstated. What really. happened was this. So, the circumstances. depend on the the whether the publicist. is fibbing or not. Oh, yeah. I'm not.

saying that all publicists do is lie, but I'm saying if you work as a. publicist, part of your job is to cover. tracks and to lie. Gotcha. Um, and you know that don't hate the. publicist, hate the system is what I. say. Yeah, they're definitely a part of. a larger system. Yeah, a larger system. which includes all of us who digest. news. Yeah, especially say like. entertainment news. Yeah, that kind of. thing. Um, there's like a there's a.

whole there's two from my understanding. there's two routes a person can take as. a celebrity. You can either just go off. and be a normal person and depending on. your level, you might have paparazzi. following you or that kind of stuff. There's once you get to a certain level, it doesn't matter what your decision is. Or you can hire a publicist and feed. yourself right into that machine to get. as much publicity and as much press as. you possibly can. Yeah. Well, I think. any celebrity is going to have a.

publicist, but it's really a matter of. your directive and your goal, right? I. think some of those people like to be. like that the old adage there's no such. thing as bad publicity. Yeah, I I ran. into that that that's more of a PR term. where like so if you're into PR you're. probably representing a comp company or. an organization or something like that. Yeah. A publicist is somebody who. typically represents a single person, an. artist, an author, uh a musician, um. something like that. That's really the.

the only definition I can find for a. publicist. And the the job the goal of. the publicist is to. um help maintain and promote the public. image of that person that they. represent. That's right. By um having a. good relationship with the media. Yes, that's where it starts. That's the. publicist. Uh and by the way, that no. such thing as bad publicity, I tried to. find the origin of that and the closest. thing I could find was PT.

Barnum, but I don't know if that's true. I don't think that's verified. Well, then say Mark Twain. Yeah, PT Barnamer. Mark Twain. Everybody says, "Oh, it was. a Mark Twain saying." Uh, and I don't. think that's even true anyway. I think. maybe that used to be true. What? That. it was a Mark Twain saying? No, that no. such thing as bad publicity. I think at. one point that may have been sort of. true, but these days there's clearly bad. publicity. Sure. Uh, so you said the. word flack earlier as a teaser. Uh. apparently um two flack or a flacc is a.

term originating from gene flack early. publicist. Yeah. In Hollywood. And. that's with a CK. That's right. F LA AK. to take flack is named after a type of. German gun in World War II. A German. anti-aircraft gun. Two different things. But in this case, it is a porative term. uh for publicist. Uh they don't like it. A PR flak. Yeah. You shouldn't say that. to someone that works in PR. No. Or call.

them a liar. They don't like that. either. Yeah. Um Yeah, I looked it up. Apparently, it means that like you can't. be trusted. You you'll do anything for. money. Uh that's what a flack is to. them. That's like they one article I. read said that's like calling a personal. injury attorney an ambulance chaser. Yeah. Just not a nice term. Gotcha. So. there you have it. Uh, so a publicist, like you said, works. for their client to make them to get.

their good deeds out and to if they. don't have good deeds to spin things to. make it look like they do, right? You. know, here, hold this baby lamb. Yeah. While we take your picture. Exactly. And. then they get photographed later eating. euros down the block. The two events. were totally not connected. No. So the. uh what they do is they pitch uh ideas. to the media and they probably have to. be good writers themselves because a. press release oftentimes is a starting.

point but press releases as we know uh. can get lost in the shuffle and never. see the light of day. Yeah, it seems. like a huge waste of time. It can be. But uh if you have a good publicist um. they will be well connected to the. media, right? to ensure that that uh. publicity blast is not lost. Right. Exactly. So there's um there's direction. one which is from the publicist to the. media and the the publicist is going to.

have all these contacts with different. entertainment reporters and business. reporters and anybody that could. possibly run a story. Yeah. Anybody that. could possibly run a story on um their. client. Right. That's right. and they'll. say, um, Billy Ray is going to donate. some money. Why are we picking on him? Uh, he just seems like the type who. would donate a bunch of money to a. homeless shelter. Okay. And go down. there himself and help out. Great. So, Billy Ray is going to be down there. Plus, it's it's it rolls off the tongue.

Billy Ray. Sure. Um, so why don't you. send one of your Cub reporters down and. and let's get some coverage for this. Right. And since they're friends, since. the these people have worked together. for decades now, this reporter and this. your your publicist, the reporter. actually might respond. Yeah. And show. up or the editor or the news producer, whoever the contact is. That's great. Like that's you hired a good publicist. and now this story is going to make it. out there. That's right. because they.

didn't just write up a press release. with a bunch of exclamation points in. the headline and fax it to every media. outlet they could find and get zero. response. Yes. A good a publicist is. only as good as their relationships, I. think. Mhm. Um the other way on that. street that you were talking about is. from the journalist back to the. publicist. If they hear, "I heard Billy. Ray Cyrus drank a bucket of tequila.". Yeah. And ran over a prostitute with his. car. They will then get in touch with. the publicist and then they go, "Jack,

buddy. Hey, we go back a long way. Would. I lie to you? Would I lie to. you?" Uh, so that's how that goes. And. they want they will be uh more. forthcoming with people who have it's a. scratch your back, you scratch mine type. of scenario. Yeah. Like that reporter. that actually showed up at the homeless. shelter and covered it and made a nice. piece and everything. I'll give you the. scoop. When that guy calls, he's he's. gonna get the better treatment from the. publicist than somebody who ignored the. the the pitch before. That's right. Um a.

lot of back scratching. A lot of back. scratching. Feeding the machine. I've. seen a lot more women as publicists than. men. And I've always wondered why that. is true. I don't know that that is true. In researching this, I saw about an. equal amount. I used to think that as. well. Um but it seems like there's an. equal amount these days. It seems like. every publicist I've ever known has been. a woman. And I just figured it's because. women may be more level-headed and uh. more able to like smooth out a. situation. Oh yeah. Than some big dumb.

guy. Yeah. Um but I guess the guys who. are publicists aren't big dumb guys like. me. I'd be a bad publicist. Oh yeah. So. what would your response be if somebody. called to to find out what stupid thing. your your client did or why they did. some stupid thing? I'd say, you know. what, it's really none none of your. business. Stop bothering me. bad publicist. Yeah. Well, that was. something I ran across was, you know, saying something like, "My client needs. their privacy respected right now.".

Sure. Would just immediately shut down a. relationship that you've cultivated over. the years. Yeah. That you have to give. as a publicist. You are like you there. has to be something that you give. So, you better have something that will. plate the reporter, Mhm. but will also. is probably not the truth because that. reporter will go off and write the truth. about your client and your client will. have just gotten horrible publicity. because of you. So, it's a balancing. act. Yeah. Or they'll just say, "Let me.

send you over a gift bag from Fred. Seagull." You like the last one, right? Uh, but public may also, and it depends, people that have a staff of people. working for them. Sometimes the lines. are blurred on who does what, but a. publicist can arrange uh interview. requests and set all that stuff up. If. you have like a book tour or you're a. politician or you're a band with a new. album coming out, they might arrange all. those interviews. In which case, they.

are prepping two things. they are. prepping the interviewer saying you. can't ask about the bucket of tequila. right if you want this interview I'll. give it to you but this is off limits. all these things and then uh as we've. learned um when we've had people work. with us in publicity uh they'll be. prepping you um on as the interviewe. like if they ask this this is how you. should probably deal with it don't. answer that yeah bridge back to what you. were saying before and uh my favorite.

thing ever are videos where celebrities. walk out of interviews because the. interviewer has asked something they. weren't supposed to ask. Yeah, those are. great. Yeah, I to sit around and watch. those all day. Yeah, you could probably. find a pretty good super cut of them. Yeah, probably. So, uh, all right. Well, let's take a break and, uh, when we come. back, we will talk a little bit about. the skills you need as a publicist. [Music].

All right, we've mentioned. lying. And you know, I joke, but for. real, if you want to be a publicist, you. better have a certain comfort level with. with stretching the truth and lying. Yeah. Because you're going to have to do. that. If you're not comfortable with. that, you shouldn't go into that line of. work. Yeah. Is that safe to say? I think.

very. You need to be good with people. and cultivate those relationships. Need. to be a good writer. Well, not only do. you have to be a good writer, you have. to be a good journalist. And a lot of um. publicists. uh have a background in journalism. because I kept running into this in this. article and another article you sent. The number one rule of being a publicist. is to think like a journalist. Even better than that is to not only. think like a journalist, but be able to.

write like a journalist, too. Because as. we kind of demonstrated, the the. publicist media relationship is a. two-way street. The the publicist needs. the media to publicize in a flattering. manner their client. Sure. But the media. needs the publicist because they've got. deadlines and they need to come up with. story ideas and if something is brought. to them, Yeah. that's great. That's. good. But that that media professional. has a reputation to protect. It can't be.

like, you know, Billy Ray Cyrus got off. of his couch and mailed a check for $500. to a local homeless shelter. Yeah. Boring. Yeah. And it came in a press. release in a fax machine. Yeah. That. reporter is not going to have a very. good reputation. But if a publicist. comes to this reporter with a great. headline, creative pitch, a good story. that's tailored to that reporter and. their beat, and even more than that, tailored to that reporter's audience, yes, there's a good likelihood that.

reporter will say, "I'm listening.". Right. And that's just music to a. publicist's ears. Sure. Just to be. listened to. Yeah. That's when you throw. it into fifth gear. Uh you can't be. afraid of uh rejection. Um, you've got. to be outgoing and you've got to take. your licks because a lot of your. attempts are going to fail just by. nature of the job. So, you can't get. your feelings all hurt. Yeah, you guess. you could, but you don't want to show. that cuz then the journalist will be. like, "Geez, Chuck's such a baby. You. are going to be eaten alive. I didn't.

run the story and he's complaining, crying, a little wimp. I saw him choking. up in the bathroom." While they may get. a good laugh out of that, they probably. won't want to work with you as much, right? Um, you got to be very patient. and you have to be very flexible because. if you're working for celebrities, it is. a very tough job. That's another thing. too. So, you are um your hours are. basically all hours whenever you're. needed, right? So, not only does your.

publicist frequently also have to do. other stuff or people associated with. the publicist um have to do things like. pick up things for the the client. Yeah. Like dry cleaning or stuff. Yeah. Sure. Um, in addition to that, like the higher. up you go on the food chain, which we'll. talk about in a minute, um, the the more. that that client feels aokay with. emailing you at 3 in the morning saying. like, um, I I need to be reassured about. my celebrity status or whatever. Yeah.

Um, and the publicist needs to respond. You're basically on call all the time. Also, at 3 in the morning, your client. may have done something really. horrifically stupid. Yes. and some. paparazzi caught it and now word's. starting to spread and you're fielding. calls from reporters at three in the. morning to get a a statement on what. your client did. Yeah. I mean uh when. when Twitter came out, I remember. thinking at the time like publicists. aren't going to be around anymore. because people are doing this. themselves. Well, they've actually.

figured out ways to use uh Twitter to. their benefit. ways to use Twitter, but. Twitter is also their biggest security. blanket as well because because of. Twitter, more and more celebrities are. saying really stupid things that the. publicist is then going to have to cover. their tracks. Yeah, that's a good point. So, they'll take down the tweet and then. try and spin that or just uh you know, the the apology is always very funny to. me. Like the awkward Well, it's never. like Did you hear about Chris Carter, the NFL guy? He's a former NFL player,

wide receiver. Sure. For the Vikings, right? Yeah. He. um is in hot water this week because he. spoke was hired by the NFL to come in. and speak to the rookies. They often do. that for guys that had been in trouble. to come in and say, "Don't do what I. did." It's scared straight. Yeah. Sort. of. And um he said in his talk to the. rookie symposium said something about, you know, if you get caught with, you. know, D. He went, "Just make sure you. have a fall guy on your team." like the.

guy in the car that's like it's my weed. basically and he got in big trouble for. that and his. apology his apology was was like that. that's not the the kind of advice I. would ever give young people. It's like. but that's the advice you exactly gave. young people. Yeah. Like how can you say. that days later? It's just so obvious. It's a. forced insincere apology. So he either. had a bad publicist or didn't listen to. his publicist because part of the. publicist's job is when you're going to.

make the statement, the public. statement, the public apology or. whatever. Sure. The the reasoning behind. it, the rationale, the um the wording of. it, the just the logic behind the. apology. Yeah. Is probably going to be. crafted by your publicist at least. Help. there. They're going to help you with. it. Yeah. At the very least, they're. going to want to help you with it, right? Because they're probably scared, stupid, that you're going to make it. worse, right? And it sounds like there's.

a lot of crisis management and that is a. part of it, but publicists also are just. trying to cook up opportunities. Um I. think that that's way more the. dayto-day. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Uh. depending on the client, of course. Sure. Um, but I remember our former boss. Connell was in a band years ago and that. I read online somewhere that his band. was uh went to Elton John's Do you. remember this story? No. Went to Elton. John's house and spelled out their band.

name and fire on his tennis court. No, I. hadn't heard that. To try and get on his. label or something. That's a great way. to do it. I know. And I went and asked. him. I was like, "Dude, I can't believe. you guys did that." And he went, "We. didn't do that." I was like, "No." And. he was like, "No, he's our publicist. made that up." He's like, "Nothing true. about it." He's like, "No, they. completely fabricated that story as a. publicity stunt that never happened.". Huh. Yeah. So, why even go to the. trouble of it when you can just release. a story that says that you did that? Yeah. Isn't that amazing when something.

like that could so easily be uh fact. checked like by calling Elton John? Well, that's the other thing like call. Elton John, you know? Well, I don't. know. So, I'm curious. I wonder how many. media stories are just totally. fabricated. Matter of fact, I'd be you. out there in podcast land. Let us know. if you know a media story that was just. totally fabricated that everybody takes. as fact, right? We want to hear it. I. love stuff like that. I do too. All. right. Uh we mentioned earlier that you.

might end up getting the laundry or dry. cleaning as a publicist if you're the. publicist intern. Yeah, that's probably. what's going to happen is you might get. asked to go get the laundry and then you. will say, "Sure, I'll take care of that. for you." And then you will go down the. chain until you find the underling who. was trying to be a publicist who still. does things like that. Right? This. person may or may not be in college, but. is probably college age. That's. something that I ran across. If you want. a career in as a publicist, you do not. need to spend a single penny on higher.

education. No. The entire career of. publicists begins as as a hands-on. experience. You need to be you need to. be literate. You need to probably have a. knack for writing um in a journalistic. way. Sure. And crafting good headlines. and uh by proxy good email subject. lines. But you don't if you have that. already before college, you don't need. to go to college. No. Like you can go.

and major in journalism or. communications or PR, but it's not like. you get that diploma, that PR diploma. and you're going to get like some entry. level job as a a publicist. No, you're. still going to have to work your way up. See, it says right here, I have a PR. degree. So, where's my job? Right. Um, my advice is to skip college and go. straight into the. workforce as early as you can if this is. what you want to do. You know, I feel. and I hope that there is becoming a. bigger understanding that there are. certain fields out there, there are. careers out there where you don't have.

to go to college. No. And there are. careers out there where like you should. go to a vocational school to learn that. trade. Yes. That college is not. necessarily this end all be all that you. have to spend money after money after. money to get a degree that might even. not be used in your field. But I mean, I. didn't need a degree to do what I'm. doing. No one ever has to see it, right? And this is a this is a perfect example. of that, Chuck. Like, to be a publicist, you do not need a degree. You need.

hands-on experience. You need basically. what amounts to an apprenticeship. That's right. Yeah. Good way to say it. So, go in and get that job in the mail. room or as an assistant or as an intern. Uh, and it would be great if you still. live at your parents house at this point. because you're going to get paid like. next to nothing. Yes. and you're going. to be doing all the grunt work. Yes. But. if you are if you go in there with your. mindset to I'm going to learn this, I. want to learn this and move up, you're. you're going to be in the right. environment for that. Absolutely. Uh.

like we said, you might be picking up. dry cleaning. You're going to be. uh returning a lot of phone calls, drafting a lot of um probably not so fun. uh press releases. Um that that is. graduated from the intern. Yeah. Well, well, I'm talking about being like a. junior assistant, right? What? After you. get hired on. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And. press releases that aren't like the sexy. ones, you know? Right. Um, you're not. going to be writing like the press. releases for Billy Ray Cyrus, in other. words. No, those are sexy. You'll be.

writing them for his dog. Okay. You. know, sure. Uh, Freddy Freddy Cyrus. Freddy Freddy. Cyrus. Yeah. Okay. you are going to be uh handling your. publicist that you work for uh their. schedule, um their contacts. You're. going to be uh putting together press. kits and EPKs, electronic press kits, and blasting those out. Yeah. Basically, all of the. um nuts and bolts of the job you're.

going to be doing as a junior uh staff. publicist or an assistant, right? Not a. bad gig if that's what you want to do. and and if you stick to it and you're. good at it, you're going to end up being. a publicist, right? Not only are you. getting the experience you need on the. job, you're also in a place where you're. networking, too, because that is. probably tied for first as far as like. thinking like a journalist goes. You. need to be a pretty good networker. That's right. And you know what? Let's. take a break and we will talk more about.

uh networking and some of the uh skills. you still need. [Music]. Ch, can I make a confession? Yes. I'm. possibly the worst networker on the.

planet. Uh, you didn't have to tell me that. I'm. really bad at it. Yeah. It's not your. bag. It isn't. Some people are good at. networking. I'm pretty good at it. You're good at networking. Yeah. Because. I enjoy it. Yeah. And I don't consider. it. um networking sounds like just doing. something to serve you in the end. I. don't look at it that way. I look at it. as like I enjoy making professional. colleague uh enjoy meeting and and.

getting to know professional colleagues. Yeah. And then later on if I can hit. them up for something or if they hit me. up that's great. But if not it's just uh. something I like. Gotcha. You know. So. so the proper response to somebody when. they come and ask you for something. you're like oh I saw this coming. Yeah. That's not the way to respond. Probably. not. I I'm trying to put myself out. there a little more. Oh yeah. Yeah. Why. is that? Just just I think that's a. skill that everybody should have. Yeah.

All right. instead of being like a. misanthropic recluse, you know, put. yourself out there. I agree. Um, well, one of the skills that, uh, I don't. think we pinpointed was networking. without seeming like you're networking, which is sort of that is the key what I. was just talking about. And I think. maybe that is it too, like I feel like. networking is a task. Whereas if I just. relaxed and enjoyed it and like just, you know, communing with a fellow human. being. Yeah. Isn't that what it's all. about? That's all it is. Not so scary.

If I just took it like that, then I'm. sure it would be much more relaxing. Um, I read a. uh blog and I sent it to you. Yeah. And. I want to shout them out because they uh. Sonic Bids, S O N I C B I Ds. Mhm. It's. a blog where they did an interview that. was pretty insightful actually. Uh they. did a a double interview, a dual. interview with uh Julie Likenstein of 37. Media and Lily Gallightly of Glightly.

Media and I think they work with bands. uh and musical artists mainly. Yeah. But. uh it was super insightful and they said. um just some little tidbits here like I. was always curious how they get paid. Um. and I think if you're a publicist for a. person and like you are on retainer then. you just get a salary. um or if you're. part of a firm that just works with that. person, right? But you can also just be. hired for a campaign, right? So, if. you're a band and you've gone to the.

trouble of like going in and and hiring. a producer to produce your album and. like you've made a studio quality album. that you're proud of, you might want to. hit everybody up or gather around. another two grand to hire a publicist. for a month to release that album. correctly. Not a bad idea. No. And like. just hiring a publicist isn't going to. automatically make it great. No. Like. you need to say like, "Can we see some. of the other campaigns you've run?". Sure. What are your ideas for this.

campaign? Um who have some of your. clients been in the past? Um what are. what are what's some of the press that. you've gotten? Yeah. Your successes. Yeah. You don't want to just be like. throw a dart at a phone book, right? do. your research because it's two grand and. you're an upand cominging band and. that's just that's not chump change. But. if you if you look at it as a wise. investment and you do invest it wisely. in a good publicist, it could make a. huge difference for you. Agreed. Um this.

uh Julie said that uh they try and get. out for for a major artist uh three or. four months ahead of the release of the. album is when they want to start their. job. Yeah. So it's not like hey it drops. next week let's think of some good. ideas, right? you know, they want some. good lead time. Uh, and they said that. they like to work around goals. Um, if they're if it's like a tour, like. for us going on our tour, right? Uh, we. don't have a publicist. No. But we have. promoters working with venues, right,

that sort of do the job of a publicist. as far as trying to sell tickets, right? Um, but if you are booking a tour and. you have a publicist, they're going to. be the ones that are getting you on the. local radio stations, uh, morning TV, getting you in the local, uh, newspaper. or, uh, alternative newspaper to get you. some press. Yep. And this is I mean, if. you have um, like this is stuff you can. do yourself, but one of the things that. you are hiring when you hire a publicist.

is their contacts, too. Absolutely. like. you don't have the context, you're just. the band. One of the problems is you are. it's going to be tough for you to think. objectively. Like you're not going to. understand why every journalist you talk. to doesn't want to automatically do a. long form piece on how great your band. is, right? Publicist is going to be. dispassionate enough and removed enough. that they can see it objectively through. a journalist's eyes and and then pitch. it in a way that's probably going to get. better um more more bites. Yeah, that's.

a good way to put it because the artist. we've even experienced this is the ones. who gets their feelings hurt saying. like, "Oh man, they, you know, they they. interviewed us last time. Why didn't. they do it this time?" And they're. always great about massaging the ego a. little bit and saying like, "It's okay, guys. It's no big deal." Yeah, cuz um. that doesn't do much for us anyway. Lie. Right. We got this other thing that's. better. Lie. Right. Um, the other thing. they're going to be doing if uh they. work for you is they're going to be. sending you uh weekly or bi-weekly.

reports on what's lined up, who passed. on stuff, who who bit um stuff like. that. Like they're keeping you informed. Yeah. You're not just like in a black. hole. And some artists like to be well. in touch on that stuff and some probably. don't care about being bothered, right? You know, they just want to be on Conan, man. Conan shot in Atlanta, 15 minutes. from our house. Yeah. Where we live. Yeah. And we couldn't get on Conan. I.

know. And it was while our TV show was. debuting. I know. You don't have to remind me. Let's talk. Penny C. Sansancy Vieri. Yeah. From. Huffpo. She uh is the author and CEO of. Marketing Experts, Inc. And she listed. out nine things that a good publicist. does. What's number one, Chuck? Can you. guess? Think like a journalist. That's. right. You already said that and you. were right. That's the number one rule. Number two rule is know the rules.

Right. Got to play within the game. If. you start I mean you can bend rules, but. if you start breaking them, people have. a long memory. Well, here Yeah. If you. go on and and read um just type the the. phrase rules of pitching and publicity. into your favorite search engine and it. will bring up apparently one of the. journalist things journalists like to do. in their downtime is write lengthy blog. posts mocking PR and publicists who. don't follow the rules of pitching. So.

um one of the rules is no phone calls. You you just don't use the phone. All. email. Yeah. Especially if you're cold. calling people. Like I guess if you have. a relationship with somebody, you can. pick up the phone and call them, but you. you don't send a email blast and then a. day later follow up on the email by. phone. Apparently, that's the worst. thing you can do. Yeah. You don't want. to bug people. No. And it's very easy to.

to come off as like pestering a reporter. as a publicist. I bet. So, you you need. to know the rules or your publicist. needs to know the rules. Uh here's a. good one that I didn't think about. Reading outside of your market. I'm sure. it's pretty easy to just think uh New. York and LA, like what else do I need to. know about? Well, not even that. It's. like um if you're a band, outside of. your industry. Yeah. Yeah. you know, and. just start to think of like, oh, well, we actually sing this song about uh the. oil industry and oil prices are going.

through the roof, so maybe maybe the. Today Show would want to talk to us. about our song. Didn't think about that. I'd be a great publicist. Well, you'd be. a great songwriter. I'm terrible at. networking. Um, Google alerts. That's kind of a. no-brainer, I would think. Um, understanding the importance of local. media. That's a good one. Um because. while your artist is not going to be. super stoked about appearing on uh Good. Morning Toledo, hey, if there's a tie, like you're from Toledo, like you Yeah.

then that's probably a smart thing to do. because the local media loves people. that were from there that moved away, right? Maybe they still live there. Plus, um. Mrs. Sans Civieri makes this point or. Miss Sansancy, sorry, um makes this. point that um you never know where a. local contact is going to end up. Sure. Might hit the big time, they might work. for USA Today in a couple of months. Yeah. It doesn't get bigger than that. Uh and if they if they hit the big time. on their end and they have you as like a.

contact, it could help you out big time. That's right. Uh and then earlier you. mentioned something about subject lines. for emails. I never really thought about. this, but um Penny says, "Can I call her. Penny?" You can. Are we on a firstn name. basis? I call her Miss Sansieri. Okay. Well, she says that crafting a subject. line is one of the most important things. that you can do as a publicist and that. they agonize over this and it makes. total sense with the glut of emails that.

people receive, especially journalists. Uh you want to grab their attention. otherwise it's just going to be bye-bye. time. Yeah. So but you also have. crafting, reddrafting, editing, tweaking. She says it's just like. maddening how much you have to do that. Yeah. That would drive me crazy. Yeah. Because it's the minutia. So much. importance on the minutia. Yeah. But. it's true. And and you have to you have. to put a lot of thought into it, but you. also probably can't come off as having. put too much thought into it or else it.

seems desperate, which you'll turn. somebody off, man. Journalist publicists. want to kill journalists and vice versa. Yeah. It sounds like a a weird. relationship for sure. Yeah. You know, and then also, did you look up media. leads? No. So basically there's services. out there where journalists say I need a. quote on uh I'm doing a piece on nuclear. fusion and I don't even know what that. is so I need a source and then this this. this um service that the the journalist.

calls puts out like a a daily or you. know maybe even more than once a day. newsletter blast to PR people who pay. for the service and then they they go. through and say oh I've actually got a. nuclear physicist on my payroll. role. Yeah. And I'm I'm going to connect him. We've been uh connected that way before. How who uh when we had different PR. firms working for with us at times um. they've gotten in touch and say said so. and so at SpaceX.

um wants to know if you want to come on. and talk about this or when we did that. stuff on ABC about when the housing. crisis hit. Yeah. Cuz we're financial. experts. Yeah. So stuff like that. It. used to come across our desk every now. and then. Well, there's there's. subscription services that connect. people through leads. From what I'm. seeing is Twitter is now um filling that. void a lot where you can just search. Twitter for the hashtag ho, help a. reporter out. Yeah. The reporters um and.

then also I guess there's a lot of PR. taste makers out there. Sure. Um that. are just super connected and will. basically tweet a lead and you don't. have to pay $1,000 a month for that. subscription service. You just follow. certain people on Twitter and as a PR. person, you might have somebody that's a. client that you connect. Yeah. The whole. that whole new job of being an. aggregator, a a curator. Yeah. Like. that. Yeah. Like people do that and. that's all they do. But we also live in. an age where people are famous for being.

famous. I know, man. I need to take back. a little bit my tiraate about liars. I think that what I'm talking about are. people publicists for like big. celebrities and stuff like that. Okay. Like we've had publicists work with us. and I bet 80% of the clients that they. work with are like people like us where. you don't have to like lie and spin. Yeah. We're always on our best behavior. Yeah. It's just, you know, regular stuff. like let me find a good opportunity for. you and connect you and Yeah. So it's I.

was overstating it and I think that's. just the far edge of the celebrity end. of things. Gotcha. Because I just got to thinking about. what if they're listening. I don't want. them to think I didn't think they were. doing a good job. You did a great job. Way to back off of that one, Chuck. I. got one more little thing on Jim. Moran. Moran. You just said M O R. I think. Moran. Well, not the way the French say. Uh he is was known as the master.

of the publicity stunt uh back in the. day. like he did things what his big. thing was was to take a saying and try. and disprove it like for a company. So. he literally went to Alaska on behalf of. GE to sell a refrigerator to uh well it. says an Eskimo but I guess an Inuit is. what you would say today. Yeah. Um he. walked a bull through a china shop in. New York City. How'd that go? Is a. stunt. I think they broke some things. Oh, he got on a horse for a politician.

and changed directions mid-stream on the. horse like rode it through a river and. changed directions. Yeah. Like you can. do this. Uh and then in 1959 for the. premiere of The Mouse That Roared, the. great Peter Sers movie. Uh he opened an. embassy. Remember the movie was about a. small country that declared war on a big. country because they wanted to declare. war on the US and then surrender and. then get financial aid from around the. world because their their economy was in. trouble. But they ended up winning or.

something. I don't remember. Wasn't that. it? Uh he opened an embassy in. Washington for a mythical country. Yeah. Nice. Speaking of, by the way, I finally. saw Doctor Strange Love. Oh, really? Great movie. One of the best. It's up. there for sure. Oh, man. One of the best. satires, let's say. It's a great movie. Great movie. And Peter Sellers, man, just he did great. But also, I mean, like George C. Scott was amazing as. well. He was amazing. And the guy, I. can't remember his name that played the. uh the Colonel or whatever, the one who.

lost his marbles. Yeah. Yeah. He was. good. He was so good. Everybody was uh. Slim Slim Chills or Slim Pickins. Slim. Pickgin. Slim Chills. Yeah. Yeah, there's Chili Chill Wills was another. like what country western actor. Chill Wills, I think is his name. Chill. Wills. You'd recognize him if you saw. his face. Okay. Chill Wills. All right. Of course, Chill Wills makes an. appearance in the How Publicist Works. episode. You got anything else? No, I.

got nothing else. Thank goodness. If you. want to know more about publicists, you. can type this word in the search bar at. howstuffworks.com. And I said search. parts was time for listener mail. I did have one more thing. What was it? That movie America's Sweethearts. Did. you ever see that with John Cusack and. uh I know you're talking about Billy. Crystal was played a publicist to a pain. in the butt Hollywood couple. Oh, best. best portrayal of a publicist was on.

Seinfeld. The mom from that 70s show. Remember she played Seinfeld's. publicist? Oh, she was? Yeah. She tried. to get the airline pilot kicked out of. Jerry's show and ended up getting him. kicked off with a I think it's the one. where Kramer's at JFK or LaGuardia. He's. making bets on arrivals and he ends up. using the son of Sam mailbag as. collateral, right? Great episode. But. the mom from that 70s show played. Jerry's publicist, Kitty. Yeah. Who was. also on Friends. What was she on.

Friends? She played uh Phoe's halfb. brotherther. Giovani Rabisi played his. girlfriend or wife. Oh yeah. Which is a. weird like mismatched couple. That's. odd. And I think they. were they got her to be a surrogate for. them. Okay. When Lisa Kudro got pregnant in. real life. I think that's how they. handled it. We have watched a lot of TV. All right. I'm going to call this one uh. uh we were actually right and this lady.

was nice at a dinner party. How's that. for a subject line? Okay. Hey guys, I. have a little story. I was at a small. dinner party where the host was making. his own sea. [Music]. salt. The topic about it's one of those. dinner parties. Uh the topic of kosher. salt came up. So I dropped the fact from. your salt episode that kosher salt is. actually just salt used for drawing. blood out of meat to make it kosher, not. salt blessed by a rabbi. And a fellow. guest disagreed. To which I responded, "I'm quite sure about this." The host. then said, "Raise your hand if you're.

Jewish." And the guy that disputed me. raised his hand. Felt rather embarrassed. uh while he explained to me what kosher. means and that salt also goes through. the same kosher process. Though I never. explained how I backed down and didn't. uh try to defend the fact that I just. told. It's not that I doubted you guys, though I jokingly said I'd write an. email to complain, but it's because. appeal is disrespectful to correct. someone on their own heritage. Good. move. Yeah. I also didn't want to start. any petty debate uh with someone at. someone else's dinner party. Also a good.

move. Uh, so I decided to take in the. embarrassment while he was explaining. what kosher is at the same time eating. his plate of pasta. with. Hope you find this amusing. Uh, please keep up the good work. If you. read on the show, please give a shout. out to my friend Amber who introduced me. to the show. And that is from Chloe. Uh, say so. Wait a minute, Chuck. Were we. right and the the guy was wrong? We were. right. The Jewish guy was wrong cuz I. looked it up today just to be sure. Yeah. And apparently kosher salt is. kosher because in fact they said it.

should be called koshering salt. Yeah. because it's used to make things kosher. It is not the salt itself that's kosher. It would have kept Chloe out of that. kind of situation. Chloe, it sounds like. you have a lot of tact and dignity. Yes. And it sounds congratulations on that. It sounds like the other guy's a bit of. a blowhard. I'm not ruining the dinner. party. So that is uh from Chloe in uh. Sydney, Australia. Thank you. Uh, if you want to get in. touch with us, we want to hear about all. of your misadventures out there based on. stuff you should know. You can send us.

an email to. stuffodcast@ousstuffworks.com. And as. always, join us at our home on the web, stuff you should know.com. Stuff You Should Know is a production of. iHeart Radio. For more podcasts, iMheart. Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple. Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your. favorite shows. [Music].