Selects: How Miniature Golf Works | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW

Hey everyone, I thought it would be nice. to ring in the new year with an easy. select filled with Chuck and me. reminiscing about our childhood memories. of putt-putt and slush puppies. So for. this week's select, I give you our. August 2020 episode a miniature golf. And I want to take a moment to wish my. dear wife Yumi a happy birthday. So. happy birthday Yumi and to you dear. listeners, happy New Year. Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a.

production of I Heart Radio. >> [music]. >> Hey and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh. Clark and there's Charles W. Chuck. Bryant over there and there's Jerry. there. figuring out all the new contrivances of. modern life. Yeah, I mean we should tell people. what's going on I think it's. interesting, right? No. Well, I'm going to tell them. Fine. So Jerry has figured out now how. to operate the studio.

Macintosh recording system Sure. and not. be in the office. It's pretty great. It's it's COVID-rific. actually. And so she was just up on our Skype on. video and she's still there but when she. switched it to mute it went to that. distressing picture. Do you see that thing? No, I just see JR. Like the letter J and. the letter R. Oh, see oh there she is. She's back. Okay, yeah. >> When she turned it off though it was I. get a a photograph of Jerry that looks.

like she's. like sick in bed or something. It's. weird. This is [laughter] uh well, that's just Jerry's look. Maybe so, I. don't know. >> That's that's a diet of nothing but miso. for 15-20 years will do for you. The. weirdest thing is this is close as we've. come to normal in 4 months. I know not only is it like normal, it's. almost like a throwback. Remember when. we had the studio where we would look. out the window when she was there? Yeah. Yeah, that was great. This kind of like. this again. >> She's a window creeper.

Yep. [laughter]. Professionally and in her personal life, too. That's right. So this is Stuff You Should Know. everybody. I don't know if I said it. There are probably a few people who are. confused and aren't anymore. Um but we. haven't gotten started yet. So prepare. to be confused again when we explain. something. In particular Chuck miniature. golf. I got to ask. Are you a fan? Uh this made me want to play again. Like. I grew up playing putt-putt Sure. and.

have very fond memories of all the. different colored golf balls and you. know, all like the water trap that was. really just a stagnant little puddle. Yeah. of concrete, you know? But. putt-putt was wonderful and great and. there were arcades and birthday parties. there that featured heavily with GI Joe. action figures and stuff like that. The. good kind of 3 and 3/4 inch ones. >> Mhm. Um and yeah, I have I I am a fan if. not just nostalgically um. in general, yes. And which style and as.

you as a listener will see soon there. are a couple of different things but did. you grow up playing. just sort of the bare-bones putt-putt or. the more miniature golf clown's mouth, windmill, volcano? Well, Chuck, if you ask me if I had a. rich childhood, I will always tell you. yes, sir. Yes, I did. And the reason why. is because I grew up having putt-putt. close by in Toledo and we played that a. lot. And then when my family would.

vacation in the summers on Catawba. Island on Lake Erie. and this is like pre-cleaned up Lake. Erie. there was a like a run-down little like. mini golf with like clown's mouths and. windmills and all that stuff right by. the place where we used to stay like. walking distance. And so we'd play there. a lot, too. So I had the best of both. worlds. A really great just top-notch. childhood. So I grew up playing. putt-putt at Stone Mountain Park which. we went to a lot uh because it was near.

our church and the youth group would go. and do putt-putt nights and stuff. Mhm. So that was a lot of fun uh and I was. sort of partial to those. that were like, you know, the real. putt-putt where it requires a little bit. of skill. Mhm. Uh but I am also a sucker. for the beach town. uh. volcano waterfall. uh. go-kart. bumper boat.

arcade scene. >> [snorts]. >> Yep. Don't forget laser tag. I never really did laser tag. The I. think that came around a little after I. was. you know, in my prime years for this. kind of thing. Got you. Yeah, it wasn't. it same here but I I was looking up now. they have laser tag at putt-putt places. But I still love those go-carts, man. We. when we go to Isle of Palms last year. I found a place nearby. I was like we. got to go and everyone was kind of like. oh, I don't know and the kids were sort. of like yeah, I'll guess I'll do it and.

I was like guys, we got to go. Right. [laughter] Like what is wrong with all. of you? Who are you vacationing with, Chuck? Ah man, it was so much fun. >> monoxide leak at the house you're in? No, those go-carts I could do that all. day long. Yeah, for sure. And of course. I got the guy, you know, the teenager. squeaky [clears throat] voice teenager. Mhm. and I said hey man, what which one. which which is the the fast one? And he. was like number eight. Really? Oh yeah and sure enough it was. really fast. You just ran circles around. everybody.

>> I did such that I even laid off on the. gas a little bit just to catch up and. let people, you know, act like they did. outrace me. >> What a what a sportsman. >> [laughter]. >> Oh my goodness. Well, we'll talk about. go-carts one day more in depth but today. we're just going to focus on the. miniature golf, okay? Yeah, this has a. pretty interesting history, I think. Yeah, I had no idea how far back it went. until we started researching this and. actually it goes all the way back to the. 19th century. And this is one of those. rare things that's been around a while. but you can actually pinpoint like the.

first one and the first miniature golf. course in the world as far as anybody. knows is at St. Andrews. It's at the. Ladies Putting Club of St. Andrews. um and it was built in 1867. strictly for the women members of the. Ladies Putting Club. Yeah, there's a. couple of things at play here. Actually. really just one thing which is. uh [clears throat and snorts]. not letting women do things. >> [laughter]. >> Yeah. Uh cuz there was a a decree.

basically that women shall not take the. club back past their shoulder. Um The 11th commandment. >> Yeah, like a real golf swing in other. words was I guess improper for a for a. lady to do. The Victorian era was just so stupid. when it came to social constraints. I'm. trying to figure out why does that. I don't know. Does. >> Patriarchy, I would guess. Well, I just. wonder why a full golf swing would it. make their. their dress rate rise a little above the.

ankle or like I just wonder why. I think also women were expected to not. overexert themselves physically. especially in public, too. So you could. kind of construe that as overexertion. Well, and then there's this which is. from an 1890 book. by uh Scottish Baron Lord Wellwood. talking about women and when they should. golf and when they shouldn't golf. Mhm. If they choose I was going to do a. Scottish accent but I'm just not feeling. it. Uh if they choose to play at times. when male golfers are feeding or resting.

no one can object but at other times. must we say it? They are in the way. It was kind of snarky to add even the. the must we say it. Like do I even need. to to write this next sentence it's so. just drippingly obvious. >> [laughter]. >> So but the long the upshot of this is. that's why they created the Ladies. Putting Club is just to sort of get rid. of them. Yeah, to get them out of the way of the. men. But the joke was on the men because.

this putting green, this first miniature. golf course in the world is still around. and it's still considered one of the. finest. It's actually nicknamed the. Himalayas because it has all these kind. of mountains and hills and hillocks all. built into it. Um. >> [clears throat]. >> and they really kind of stand out from. what I understand against like the. Scottish seascape. Um and it's a really. revered miniature golf course but it is. exactly what it sounds like. It is a. golf course in miniature. Like just like. you take a classic golf course of the.

variety that was born in Scotland and. you just kind of hit it with a shrink. ray. and then you have a genuine bonafide. miniature golf course. And that's how. the whole thing started out. >> Yeah, I mean it's it's what we would. call like a par three today, right? >> [clears throat]. >> Kind of. It seems like par three courses. are um a little different. So this is. like. Yes, I think you. it does require more than just a putter. Right.

>> A par three would require more than a. putter but there seems to be a few. different other kinds of golf courses. aside from the miniature golf course. There's the par three, the pitch and. putt and executive courses all kind of. qualify technically as miniature golf. courses in different ways. Yeah, the. executive course they got the name. because evidently an executive could go. play a quick round during lunch. Uh a lot of par threes you might have a. like one par five and a couple of par. fours.

Is that right? On a par three? On an. executive course. Oh, okay. Yeah, that's. what that's really the only thing from. what I can tell that differentiates it. from a par three course. Yeah, it's it's. it's a golf course that's just shorter. and therefore doesn't take as long. Yeah, and it's not like the whole is. smaller and the ball is smaller and the. clubs [laughter] are smaller. Like just. just get out of your fantasy land there. Instead, it's just the the distance from. the tee to the hole is shorter, there's. fewer bends and and stuff like that. So,

the actual experience takes less time. and less energy and you can just kind of. fit it in in a shorter amount of time. And I think that's the popularity of. those things generally. Although pitch. and putt courses I also saw, they're um. they usually consist of a wedge and iron. and a putter what you need to play on. those. Um and they're all about the. focus on the short game. Uh and as a result um men and women, just average men and women who play. golf, can kind of compete pretty evenly.

because it's all about the short game. It's all about finesse rather than, you. know, just sheer power of driving as far. as you can on like a traditional golf. course. Yeah, I mean I I'd love golf. I. just don't play anymore. Like I grew up. playing golf and. was not good, but I wasn't terrible. Uh-huh. uh for as much as I played. And. I still like it. I just don't, you know, have the time or the inclination. anymore. But um. I like [clears throat] the big boy. courses with the big par fives, but I. also love a fun little par three like uh. Florida has a lot of these beautiful.

par threes including some you can play. at night that are all lit up. Um and. that's always a lot of fun, too. Yeah, I I tried to get acquainted with. golf as a youngster. Um my family had. weirdly enough cuz this is not like my. family at all, had a um. membership at Heather Downs Country Club. in Toledo. >> well. [laughter]. Yeah. And I loved the pool because they had. like, you know, tons of slush puppies. and the best like nasty hot dogs you can. imagine. Um and there was a pool and all.

that. I think I told you the story about. swim league, the swim team where I was. the worst swimmer on it. >> [laughter]. >> But I also tried to golf for a couple of. summers and I just didn't didn't take it. up. But I was back in Toledo like a. couple of years ago, I think right. before our Cleveland show, and I visited. the country club. Well, I just drove by. Uh-huh. And [clears throat] I looked and. the pool is now just like a green field. It's been filled in. Wow. The little the. little um. snack shop has been torn down. I'm like, something really bad must have happened.

there for them to do that to the pool, you know. Yeah, there's uh the and I. didn't get to go here much cuz it was. private, but Hidden Hills was a big. neighborhood near. my house that had a country club. That's. still around, isn't it? >> Well, the neighborhood's there, but, you. know, the neighborhood has seen its. better days and the the country club and. golf course is completely just shut down. and grown over. It's really it looks. well, it is an abandoned place. That's so cool. It is kind of cool and. uh and then I had the idea of a movie.

like a old school type thing where a. bunch of old a bunch of like middle-aged. men that grew up there. go back and raise some money and try and. like clean the place up and get it going. again. >> [laughter]. >> Yeah? To hilarity. There has to be like a greedy developer. that they're battling, right? Oh, yeah. So, is that the neighborhood that we got. kicked out of when we tried to go shoot. like without a license once around that. area? Remember the security guard came. up and was like, "Stop what you're. doing." I don't remember that. Yeah, happened one day. Was it on the TV.

show or a short? >> No, it was like when we were shooting. shorts, I think. Yeah, I don't remember. that. Yeah. I'm pretty sure that was the one. Should we take a break already? Sure. >> [laughter]. >> Okay. All right, we'll get back and we'll talk. about where mini golf went from here. right after this. >> [music]. [music].

[music]. [music]. >> All right, so we're back. Nothing we've. talked about right now constitutes. miniature golf in the mind of anybody. who hears the words miniature golf, right? Sure. Like what what comes to. mind are things like putt-putt or goofy. golf or windmills or clowns or Happy. Gilmore or something like that, right? Yeah. So, um that all started.

Actually, that didn't quite start yet. I. was really leading up to that and then I. realized we had to keep going with. regular miniature golf [laughter] one. more time because it has to spread to. America and it did and we can actually. trace that, too, um to the house of a. guy named James Barber who was an. immigrant from England who was familiar. with the course, the Ladies Putting Club. at St. Andrews. Um and he was rich. enough that he said, "You know, I want a. miniature golf course built on my estate.

um at Pinehurst, North Carolina." And he. did. He had like an 18-hole miniature. course built right there in his his. formal gardens and it's just absolutely. beautiful. It is nice and uh this was. the first one in the United States. And as it's called Thistle Dhu, uh t h i. s t l e d h u, and supposedly, as legend. goes, he when he first saw it, he said, "This will do." Mhm. I guess he was uh. uh he was not blown away maybe. I don't. know. Sounds a little underwhelming.

>> one of those spoiled brat, you know, robber barons and instead was like, "This will do. This will do quite. nicely." And they just left off the the. second part, you know. Yeah, but it's. called Thistle Dhu and uh they started. hosting competitions a couple years. later. Mhm. And I think this is the first time. miniature golf was ever used like those. words were ever used to describe the. Pinehurst Outlook. Uh was that the. newspaper, I guess? Yeah, it's their one claim to fame.

>> [laughter]. >> Aw. You know it's true, though. It's. probably true. Yeah. But they they were. the one in that in a account of the. competition they coined the term. miniature golf. Up to that point a lot. of people had called it Lilliputian golf. Sure. after the. the little people in Gulliver's Travels. And that actually that name actually. stuck for quite a while. Um So, we've got James Barber who hosted. or. built the first miniature golf course in.

America. But still, this thing is like. directly connected to the Ladies Putting. Club of St. Andrews. It's a golf course. in miniature. We still haven't quite. reached what we would consider miniature. golf. And that wouldn't happen until. 1926, which turned out to be a really. big year for miniature golf in America. It was like there was something in the. air and a few different people kind of. tapped into it around the same time and. it suddenly just took off like a rocket. Yeah, two of the guys were some.

entrepreneurs named Drake Del. uh Delano, I guess. Great name. >> John Ledbetter, another good name. >> [clears throat]. >> It's okay. He sounds like he'll he'll. shoot you. Oh, Ledbetter? Yeah. Yeah, I. could see that. Uh they did a pretty cool thing which is. they opened up a course on top of a. rooftop in the financial district in New. York. And that kicked off a trend. There were, I think, about a hundred of those.

on top of roofs. I guess it's before the. big uh. rooftop bar hotel scene. They had golf. courses up there. Yeah, miniature golf. courses. But again, though, those were. like miniature golf courses. So, that I. mean that was a big deal. In New York just a hundred rooftop golf. miniature golf courses alone in the. '20s. That's that's a tremendous amount. Um and I don't think there's a single. one left actually. Um There should be. But there's there's So, that kind of. makes the whole, you know, there's one. on on top of Ponce City Market where the.

House of Works office is. Um Is there golf up there? There's a. miniature golf course up there and it. makes a lot more sense now. Yeah, it's. kind of like a whole mini Coney Island. up there. Yeah, I mean I think I've only. been up there when we had it work events. and the only thing I did was the slide. Uh I didn't know there was a slide. Yeah, there's like a, you know, you sit. in a potato sack and go down this big. slide. >> Yeah, yeah. I did that. That was fun. >> a there's a miniature golf course up. there. We'll have to play sometime when. the whole pandemic passes. [laughter].

Totally. Uh and then later that same year, you. said it was kind of a boom year for mini. golf, uh Lookout Mountain, Tennessee in. Chattanooga, which is a place where I. think everybody should go to see Ruby. Falls and Rock City. Oh, yes. It is a. tourist trap, but it's actually kind of. neat. I mean, the greatest of the great. tourist traps and it still holds up, too. Yeah. Get a a pecan log. Oh my god. Those are so good. They are. so good. They're so That's what That.

also supports my theory that candy was. perfected in the 19th century. I. >> [laughter]. >> never heard that theory. >> honeycomb, >> Sure. pecan logs. >> [laughter]. >> Was that a I didn't know pecan logs were. from way back then, but I believe it. Yeah, for sure. They're definitely. old-timey. So, these people. uh. Garnet and Frieda Carter, they built a. resort called Fairyland Club. and it was part of that whole sort of.

interconnected scene there with Rock. City and Ruby Falls and they built a. miniature golf course. And they said, "You know what? If you like golf, uh maybe you should. try mini golf because it doesn't take. very long. It'll kind of scratch that. itch if you're not able to play a real. round.". And that's sort of how they marketed it. at first and they uh they were the first. people I think to start adding the. obstacles, right? They did. Yeah, and um they used as they. were building like the inn and the. resort complex, they used some of the.

construction materials like drain pipes. and, you know, barrels and things like. that and used. built them as hazards. And then because. they had this whole like fairy tale. theme going up there, they also built. Rock City. They were the ones who built. Rock City and that has like a cool. little weird weird, but also very neat. fairy tale theme kind of hidden. throughout. [laughter]. Um they they added that to their. miniature golf course. So, they they had. these stationary obstacles and hazards.

that they added. And then they also. added the statuary of cute little, you. know, Mother Goose type stuff. And they. actually called the whole thing Tom. Thumb Golf. Tom Thumb, from what I. understand, is the earliest recorded. English fairy tale character from back. in 1621. And he was a little tiny guy, the size of his father's thumb, which is. where he got his name. So, it was a. pretty appropriate name. They they must. have really like been pretty pleased. with themselves when they decided to.

call it Tom Thumb Golf cuz it really it. checked all the boxes. Yeah, and we should mention too, we keep. saying Rock City, and if you're not from. the Southeast, you might think it's just. some like redneck. area with a bunch of rocks. It's. actually a very sweet natural wonder. It's it's caves that you walk through. Caves, it's huge boulders being held up. by much, much smaller boulders that have. been that way for probably tens of. thousands of years that you walk under. There's like yeah, there there's little.

cave areas that you kind of duck into, and they have little fairy tale scenes. with fluorescent day or fluorescent. Yeah, I guess kind of day glow. >> like glow in the dark. Weird like gnomes. and and fairy tale scenes. >> Like that's the weird part. It's like if. Carlsbad Caverns had, you know, some corny. fairy theme. Mhm. And then Ruby Falls is. really neat, too. Yeah. It's a very cool. like natural attraction that they've. done a good job of like underground.

waterfall. >> making it easy to to make your way to. But yeah, it's the whole thing is. definitely worth going to. And then of. course they have this the very famous. like See Rock City. barn sides that everybody's heard of. And barn sides. >> was that was Garnet Carter who painted. one man or paid one man to go around and. offer to to give a fresh coat of paint. to barns all throughout the Southeast. >> It's great. in exchange for letting them. paint See Rock City on the side. Yeah, it's if you've ever driven around the.

North Carolina, South Carolina area and. south of the border, you know what I'm talking about? Mhm. South of the Mason-Dixon line? No, South of the Border is the name of this. sort of highway tourist trap Oh no, I. haven't heard of that. >> Yeah, it's it's it's the same deal. I. think it's I want to say it's North. Carolina, but it's basically like a. glorified rest stop with that's has a. Mexican theme. Uh-huh. Where you can go like, I don't. know, see mariachi band and eat good. food and. >> [laughter]. >> buy cheap chachkies. The only mariachi band in all of North.

Carolina. But what made me think about. it, it might be, was that. they had the same thing for like. hundreds of miles in any direction for. South of the Border and Rock City. They're very famous for these billboards. that tell you like, "Oh, it's coming. You're getting closer. You're getting. closer." I that's really strange that. I've never heard of that, man. Yeah, South of the Border. Check it out. >> have been paying attention. So so, the Carters built like this Tom. Thumb Golf course. And again, originally. they just did this as kind of an amenity. at their Fairyland Inn and Fairyland.

club. Uh but it was such a smash hit. And. Garnet Carter was such a like born. businessman that. they they they were like, "I think there. might be something to this.". And they saw either they sought out or. he sought them out. I'm not quite sure. how it happened, but there was another. guy who really factors bigly into this. whole story. But he's very frequently overlooked, and. his name is Thomas McCulloch Fairbairn.

McCulla Fairbairn. Yeah. Um and he invented a really cheap. and easy technique for creating. artificial putting greens that could be. used for miniature golf courses. Yeah, it was a crushed cotton seed hulls, oil. You would dye it green, and they would. come in these big rolls, and you just. roll it over this foundation of sand. And. boom, you've got a easy way basically to. sort of franchise these things with. these prefab kits that they they had.

And people loved it. because it was, you know, when it was, they called it. golf for a little while, not a. term we would use today, [clears throat]. but it's what they called it in the. 1920s. Right. >> And this factors in to a lot of stuff. we've been talking about the 1920s. lately. Just these weird fads that would pop up, and Tom Thumb Golf was one of them. It was. And part of the reason that it. got out from Lookout Mountain is because. the Carters and Fairbairn kind of joined.

forces and used his technique for making. these greens very cheaply and used their. kind of like. touch of whimsy, packaged it together, and started selling it prepackaged sets. or prefabricated sets. that could be franchised out to anybody. who wanted to start their own Tom Thumb. Golf course. And so, they spread really, really quickly. And like you were. saying, like the '20s, they were just. looking for whatever craze could come. along. Crossword puzzles, dance. marathons, flag pole sitting. Well,

apparently, miniature golf was the king. of them all as far as the '20s crazes. went. Yeah, this is a pretty startling. statistic. Uh. in August of 1930, the Commerce. Department said that there were, and. apparently this could be low by even as. much as half, 25,000. 25,000 mini golf courses in the US, half of which were built in that. previous six or eight months of the. year. Yeah. [laughter]. That's a boom right there.

>> Can you imagine like in eight months. like 12 to 15,000 mini golf courses. being built in the US? Mhm. It's crazy. >> just imagine Garnet and Frieda Carter. just rolling around on a bed of money. in their suite at the Fairyland Inn. Yeah, and I mean in a legit like job. boosting market. Yeah, no. Well, that's that's another. thing, too, right? I mean like there was. um uh. like flag pole sitting didn't make the. transition into the Depression, and. dance marathons did, but they got kind.

of grim. Apparently, miniature golf, and I've. seen both, but but miniature golf seems. to have made the transition from '20s. craze to, you know, kind of national. pastime that that made sense in the. Depression because you could take your. whole family out to play miniature golf. for pretty cheap. Um So, that was like a. nickel or something. That that was a big. attraction. Um and then also, if you were like a. golf junkie, but all of a sudden you. didn't have the money to afford greens.

fees any longer, at the very least you. could go play some miniature golf. somewhere. So, it kind of scratched that. itch to a certain a certain degree. So, there was like a lot of popularity that. even after the craze kind of crested and. waned a little bit, um it still carried on pretty pretty. thoroughly through the 1930s. And as a. matter of fact, Chuck, some for some. people were like, "That Tom Thumb Golf, the official franchise Tom Thumb Golf, it's a little rich for my blood. What. else you got for me?".

>> Yeah, like why can't we just do this? Uh. yeah, exactly. Local entrepreneurs were. like, "I've got exactly the thing, buddy. You want to play half half-priced. miniature golf? Come on in." Like I've. got a bunch of PVC pipe laying around. Yeah. Or yeah, so just basically. whatever found objects you could find, you you could you could come across what. were called rinky-dink miniature golf. courses that were basically knock-off. Tom Thumb. courses that used whatever found objects. the the person who built it had lying.

around. Yeah, New York had about 150 of. them. Washington, D.C. had 30. One of those is. still around, the East Potomac Park. course. Yep. And. yeah, the whole family could get. involved, and I think one of the. the keys then and now to mini golf being. popular, and then putt-putt, which we'll. see here in a minute, is that you don't. even have to like golf at all. You can hate golf and still go. do putt-putt and probably have a good.

time. Yeah. As long as you don't take it. too seriously. Don't take it too. seriously. >> No, please don't. Just relax. Don't be that guy. That's what it's for. Um you want to take a break and then. talk putt-putt? >> Yes. Okay. Let's do that, everybody. >> [music].

>> Are we there? Who, me? Are we there? Are we at. putt-putt? >> Oh, I thought you said, "Are you there?". I'm like, "Yeah, I'm here.". We are there, Chuck, because. let me set the set the table here. You. ready? Yes, I'm hungry. >> Uh. America got a little burned out on. miniature golf, especially the Tom Thumb. and rinky-dink varieties. Um and so, a lot of it died out, but.

some remained, some hopped along, some. are still around today, actually. And by. the 1950s, um. there was a guy who was playing at one. of these courses in Fayetteville, North. Carolina, which remember is the home of. miniature golf in the United States, North Carolina is. Mhm. And. he happened to have just gotten a. prescription from his doctor saying, "You're about to have a nervous. breakdown. I prescribe you a month's. rest from work." And this guy, Don.

Clayton, said, "Can do." And he started. playing miniature golf, but he wasn't. quite satisfied with it. Yeah, I imagine. if you were. on the verge of a nervous breakdown, then Tom Thumb Golf is a nice salve for. that kind of. kind of experience. Sure, if if you're charmed by all the. whimsical stuff. >> And you don't take it too seriously. Right. From what I understand though, Don Clayton was like, "This whimsy. sucks. We need something better than. this, and I think I'm just the person to. build it." Yeah, so he had the idea to.

to basically make miniature golf, but. without all the garbage. Um no clown's mouths, no windmills, and. have a little like. have have a little skill involved. Like, you can go out there, and if you're like. a good putter, you can actually com-. compete and have a good time, and it's. still for fun, but it's just not a silly. kids game anymore. Yeah, like anybody who's been to an. actual putt-putt course can tell you.

that it's I mean, there's a lot of. obstacles, and it's interesting and fun, and there's some neat stuff, but it does. it just does not have all of like the. the moving bells and whistles that. you're going to see on like other kinds. of miniature golf, like goofy golf. No, like the obstacles are usually just like. some blocks in the way and stuff like. that. Yeah. Yeah, or. >> That you have to hit around or bank it. around. >> elevated elevated rhombuses or things. like that, or like a labyrinth, you. know, built into it. Um it's not like a. a clown's mouth or anything like that,

which is kind of like the go-to. description for goofy golf, isn't it, really? Yeah, and I think like the the craziest. thing you'll see on a putt-putt course. is where you those that are like two. levels, and you can hit it into three. different holes at the top. Mhm. And. you're like, you kind of take a little. bit of a gamble as to where it's going. to come out on the bottom. Uh. it'll either come out close to the hole, so you can get that par two, and I think. they're all par twos on a real putt-putt. course. >> Right. Or it'll spit you out way far.

away, but you still have a chance to hit. that long putt for the for the two. Sure. There's always a chance for you a. second chance at putt-putt. >> [laughter]. >> I think that was the motto. So, um yeah, but so this was Don. Clayton's vision. He was like, "I I want. to make this a little less goofy. I want. to make it a little more interesting and. and skillful.". >> Less goofy, more golfy. Yeah. Yeah, Chuck. Man, he just sat up from his. grave going, "I wish I'd thought of. that." Is he dead? Yeah, he died in. 1996.

>> Oh, okay. But he had a good run. I mean, this is 1954 when he was a 28-year-old. man that he decided to try this. So, uh. he went to his dad and said, "Hey, I've. got this I've got this idea. Rather than. basically, as a New York Times obituary. put it, um rather than basic basically. making a a human-size pinball machine. for golf, we're going to make this a. little more interesting. How about we. cobble together 5,200 bucks, and we're. going to build our own little miniature. golf course." And he did in like a a. shaded little um lot,

and with that $5,200, they opened for. business, and within 29 days, he and his. father had made 100% of their investment. back. And Don Clayton said, "I think. there might be something to this whole. thing.". Yeah, so he uh. he was initially going to call it he. went to the bank to open a business. account, and he had to fill out the. paperwork, and he was going to call it. the Shady Vale Golf Course, but Yeah, this [laughter] is hilarious. as the. story goes, he didn't know how to spell.

vale. I guess if it was v a i l or v a l. e. So, he just. said, uh. putt-putt. >> [laughter]. >> And wrote down putt-putt. It wasn't. something he brainstormed. Apparently, it was just sort of on a whim. Yeah. And. it's a name that really really stuck. It's kind of brilliant in its. simplicity, I think. Divine inspiration, it almost feels like um did that it just. kind of happened on a whim. That's. That's absolutely great. But um he.

started to kind of build the whole thing. into like this enormous industry pretty. quickly, cuz he was right, you know, there's I did the math. If they made. their $5,200 back in 29 days, that means. that over that month, they had 20,800. paying customers. >> Okay, well, it was a quarter a game? Like 25 cents a game, yeah. >> Man, that's a lot of people. >> when they really got together and and. started putt-putt like they they he was. right. He was on to something, and it. started to take off pretty quickly. Apparently, at its peak, um.

when you and I were going to putt-putt, Yes. they were they they had something. like 256 courses throughout the world. Um mostly in the US and Canada, but also. in Australia and South Africa and New. Zealand. Um and it was uh it was. definitely a thing. Like you said, all. of the holes were par twos, right? Yeah, and this was just to be clear, 256. doesn't sound like a lot compared to the. 50,000.

that uh they had in the 1930s, but this. was his his own Putt-Putt Golf and Games. franchise. Right. >> There was plenty of more putt-putt going. on in the United States than that. Right. Right. Right. Yeah, like knockoff. putt-putt, right? Yeah, like the one at. Stone Mountain Park wasn't a Putt-Putt. Golf and Games. It was just putt-putt, but it was it was great. It's called. tap-tap. >> [laughter]. >> They also had trail skate across from. the putt-putt, which was a.

roller skating trail through the woods. What? Yeah, it was like this 2-mile. paved you know, just basically like a. big paved sidewalk through the woods, and they rented roller skates, and you. would just skate through the woods. It. was really cool. Man, that's awesome. Country folk just. have some of the best ideas [laughter]. for businesses, you know what I mean? I didn't think of us as country folk, but I guess it kind of was. Uh roller skating through the woods is. country. [laughter] I guess it is. That's like Dolly Parton level country.

So, yeah, they're all par twos, um and. it is it is tough. It's challenging. Apparently, in the 65-year history of. putt-putt, there have only been three. perfect games where you walk away with a. score of 18, which is. that's that's really tough to do. I mean, like of the millions and. millions of games that of putt-putt that. people have played, only three people. have ever ever gotten a perfect game, which kind of shows you how like. deceptively hard a putt-putt course is,

you know? Like each one of those each. one of those courses is made of um I. think they have something like 108. uh trademarked holes. >> Right. Or like uh lanes, I think is what. they're called in miniature golf. Um to. where you can just kind of take them and. and reconfigure them into different. different configurations, but they have. 108 total, and I guess each one of them. is. it it very very difficult. I don't ever. remember getting a perfect game or even. imagining that I was going to get a.

perfect game. No, I mean, you get a two. or three holes in one, and you that's a. that's a good day. For sure. So, 18. There's actually a. short, I think 7 and 1/2-minute. Grantland documentary on the most recent. perfect putt-putt game by a guy named. Rick Baird, who had his perfect game in. 2011. Can you imagine the tension on. hole 18? They capture it really well in this in. this documentary. It's really well done. They've got like like a cartoon version. of him putting, and he's got like.

cartoon sweat just running down his. face. Oh, man. Really great. >> yeah, it was very nervous, and he did. it. And he's actually a a miniature golf. pro um in his spare time, which we'll. talk about later. But there's So, he's. from Charlotte. Um Don uh Clayton was. from Fayetteville, and then um. Joseph Barber was from Pinehurst. So, it seems pretty clear that North. Carolina is the ancestral home of.

miniature golf, or at least the. spiritual home of miniature golf in the. world, frankly. I'm just going to say it. in the world. Yeah, and if you're looking for the. creators of the uh kind of mechanized. courses, uh you can go to Grant in 1955 in Grant. in PA with Ralph and Al Loma. Um previous to this, you know, you had. the putt-putt, which just had the sort. of regular obstacles. You had the Tom. Thumb, which had kind of more outrageous. whimsy, but still things weren't moving. And that these are the guys that brought.

in these rotating windmill blades or. ramps that move back and forth, and they. really kind of kicked that to the next. level. And uh. they you know, they went into business. big time. They started mass-producing. these things, like the actual. components, and sold a ton of them all over the. world. Yeah, I think like 5,000 courses. Yeah. Which is pretty impressive. They're the. ones who came up with what we think of. now as like miniature golf and goofy. golf with the moving stuff. >> Not a fan. >> The clown mouth. Don't forget the clown.

mouth that opens and closes, or yeah, like you say, a windmill. Um so, it's. kind of interesting that Don Clayton. brought miniature golf back to its. roots of being a lot more like regular. golf, and then very shortly after that, branched off the Lomas, who brought it. back to their that Tom Thumb roots. So, that whole thing the evolution of. miniature golf happened twice. in just the same way. Isn't that.

interesting? Yeah, and it also came back full circle. in the '90s. with the return to the sort of that. original miniature golf, Mhm. because. real golfers, people like Jack Nicklaus, started to get involved. Uh I'm sure. there were dollar signs, you know, in. his eyes. >> [laughter]. >> Sure. But he also probably loved it. I don't. want to be cynical, but I'm sure he made. some money. >> [laughter]. >> Uh but they have competitions, you know, there are actual um prize purses. There. is a US Pro Mini Golf Association. They.

have their own little US Open. I don't. think they call it the Little US Open. Uh They should though. They totally. should. There's the World Mini Golf. Sports Federation in Germany, Uh-huh. and they sort of are the the body that. standardizes the obstacles and stuff. like that on I guess what you can have. and what you can't have. Yeah. Which is kind of funny when you. think about it. It is, but it's a pretty interesting. list. You're like, "Ooh, that'd be. tough. Oh, that's hard." The sloped. circle with a V obstacle. Yeah. That's.

just plain difficult. Um and I I think. they should call it the Teenie Weenie US. Open. >> [laughter]. >> Welcome back to the Teenie Weenie US. Open. >> [laughter]. >> I was looking at the um the uh. US Pro Mini Golf Association's website. and um there was a Tennessee State Open. And man, the picture that they have of. that course, it looks serious, dude. Yeah. So like if you if you go to. putt-putt and you always were like, "I. love this. This is so challenging. I can.

score like a 16 or I guess not a 16.". [laughter]. I just don't play the last two holes. when I'm on a streak. Um you know, like. a a 20 or a 22 or something like that. You might actually have fun being a. miniature golf pro. And there are some. serious courses out there for you to. play that are. a couple of notches above your average. putt-putt course. I'd like to play one. of those. Would you I don't know if I would have. fun with my club.

Should we talk about some of these uh. famous courses? Yeah. So um from what I can tell the. United States is the home of miniature. golf. It's the capital of miniature. golf. I don't believe there's any. country like I was looking I was like, "Maybe Thailand is like even more into. it than the United States." I don't. think so. I think the United States is. the place that has the most miniature. golf courses and has probably the most. paying customers for miniature golf. courses. I can see Japan.

I could too. >> Cuz they invented golf. I didn't see. anything like that. Yeah. I didn't see. anything like it. So the United States. is the home of miniature golf and the. world capital of miniature golf then is. Myrtle Beach, South Carolina. Yes. It's not North Carolina, but it's not. everybody. I'm sorry. Yeah, I mean Myrtle Beach is sort of one. of those classic old school beach towns. that has. all of the the go-karts and the bumper. boats and the mini golf and they have. one called Molten Mountain. uh. that's pretty cool. Like you should go. check out pictures of some of these.

places. They're a lot of fun. Uh that. that has a volcano, a working volcano. that erupts every half hour. And it's sort of an inside and an out. thing. Like I think it's. both indoors and outdoors, right? It is, yeah. It's a pretty It's a pretty. great one. And the the whole volcano. thing, they're not the only one. That's. how nuts so Myrtle Beach is. There's. another one called Hawaiian Rumble that. also has a functioning volcano, too. In. fact, on Highway 17, there's a 30-mile. stretch of it that goes through Myrtle.

Beach where there's 50 more than 50. miniature golf courses in a 30-mile. stretch Yeah. And I'm sure a lot of. opinions on which ones are good and. which ones stink. Yep. >> [snorts]. >> Um there's one I want to go to in. Palatine, Illinois. I think I saw a. couple of these from Travel and Leisure, maybe. Um. this one's called Algrem Acres, A L G H. R I M Acres. It's in Palatine, Illinois. Illinois. And it's a funeral home, like. for real in real life. Yeah, like you know, uh uh.

they they take care of dead bodies. Yeah. And you can also play nine holes. on their death-themed course in the. basement. In the basement. First of all, the basement of a funeral home is just. creepy on its own. But a death-themed. miniature golf course in a funeral home. that actually functions, that's that's. just downright interesting. Yeah, there's this one in Las Vegas, too, the. KISS-themed one, which. I checked out on YouTube. I would I.

would play this even though it goes. against two things for me, which is not. into indoor miniature golf, really would. like to be outside. Uh and I think KISS sucks. What? I thought you were a KISS fan. No. Oh, man, I thought you were a KISS fan. No, not a KISS fan. Never I mean, you. know, I get it and I think it's kind of. fun and funny. Sure. >> But I never thought KISS was like played. good rock and roll songs, really. That's. very surprising. I know KISS fans are. going to be so mad at me for saying. their music is not good, but I mean,

there's a reason they they dressed up. and spit blood and stuff. So there's a but it still it'd be worth. playing. I I agree. No, it looked fun. The one that I would actually travel to. go play um is called Par-King. It's in. uh Lincolnshire, Illinois. So I probably. go there and then I dip down or dip up, I'm not sure, to Palatine to play Algrem. Acres. Okay. But Par-King is like. exactly what It is It's the pinnacle of. a miniature golf course, if you ask me.

It's got it all. It's difficult and it. has all of the amazing obstacles and. weird traps and um functioning problems. to figure out that that a miniature golf. course should have. It looked pretty. cool. I mean, I'm a putt-putt guy, but I. was checking out pictures and stuff. I. would I would go I would go to Par-King. with you, for sure. Okay, we'll go. It's going to be a. summer trip in 2022 or three. >> Fantastic. >> [snorts]. >> Um and then if you want to play so I. think Chuck, this one would be up your.

alley. It's called Golf Gardens in Cat. on Catalina Island in in SoCal. >> Yeah, right up my alley. This one is like considered the hardest. miniature golf course in the United. States. Um not just because it uh it's. difficultly laid out, but also because. it's been played so much that it's got. all sorts of weird notches and stuff. that's not supposed to be there Yeah. in. the playing surface. So that makes it. all the more difficult, which is kind of. neat. >> I love that. And then if you want to go. retro, I think that one's been around a. while. Um you can go down to Florida and.

they have a historic mini golf trail. that takes you from uh miniature golf. course to miniature golf course, all of. which have been around for at least 50. years. Amazing. Uh and if you like weird old stuff. that's not in use anymore, look up. abandoned miniature golf courses. That's. [music] a fun thing to do. And since I said it's a fun thing to do, everybody, that means it's time for. listener mail. All right, I'm going to call this dad. mail. Got this very sweet email. I love. it when the family's listening, you.

know. Mhm, sure. Especially when they're not I. mean, I like families with young kids. that listen, but I also like it when the. it's [music] adults and then older. parents that are listening. >> [laughter]. >> Hey guys, hope you're hanging in there. These are such tricky times. I know. you're I'm not the only listener that. turns to your show for a distraction or. a soundtrack to washing dishes or. background noise while trying to run or. just something that feels normal during. these abnormal times. A couple of years. ago, my now husband and I took a road. trip with my parents to stay with my now. in-laws. As we pulled out of the.

driveway, we put on Stuff You Should. Know and spent the entire journey. [music]. sharing your catalog with them and they. were immediately hooked. My parents. continue to love your podcast, but every. time my dad refers to it, he mixes up. the name. I love this stuff. Mhm. So far, he's called you Guys You. Should Know, Sure. Stuff You Ought to Know, Yeah. Things You Need to Know, >> [snorts]. >> and Stuff Guys. >> [laughter]. >> Stuff Guys is That's a good nickname. Uh. lately, he's just been referring to you. as the guys podcast, which is close.

enough for me. Eventually, we're just. going to get to the Yeah. >> [laughter]. >> Uh thanks for all the amazing work and. the thoughtful approach you have to. podcasting. So grateful to have multiple. episodes to listen to every week. That. is from Marabeth and she says, "P.S. I. should add that the episode on fractals. is now infamously nap-inducing in my. family, but I blame the long stretch of highway. on that.". Thank you. That was very kind of you. >> Yeah, nice save. Really pulled it out at.

the end there. Um who is that, Marabeth? Yep. Uh well, if you want to be like Marabeth. and get in touch with us, um we would. appreciate that. Right now, you can send. it to us via email. That's the best way. to reach us at [music]. stuffpodcast@iheartradio.com. Stuff You Should Know is a production of. iHeartRadio. >> [music]. >> For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple. Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your. favorite shows.