Selects: How Famines Work | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW

good morning everybody it's Saturday. here in the world I'm Chuck I'm your. co-host of stuff you should know and it. is my charge my duty to pick out this. week's Saturday select selection I'm. going with how famines work from. February 13th. 2017 pretty interesting stuff and also a. little bit. sad welcome to stuff you should know a. production of iHeart Radio.

[Music]. hey and welcome to the podcast I'm Josh. Clark with Charles W Chuck Bryant and. Jerry the. Jer that should we say what just. happened weird where Focus yeah like oh. what is this 9 probably 20 something 30. something episodes let getting up there. and for the first time ever right before. we went go Jerry said Focus what does.

that mean usually she goes huh what I. don't get it is this me so bothering you. guys right exactly does this smell this. me so bothering that's so Jerry Focus. all right I feel pressure now I do I'm. I'm a little off now Jerry thanks so. yeah that. worked all right let's concentrate all. right so we're talking Chuck about is. your eye okay yeah I got something large. in it we're talking about famine today.

yes which uh goes with our super sad uh. horrific geopolitical catastrophe sweets. yeah this probably will not be chalk. full of humor no I triy to think of a. way to insert some jokes there's not. unless we go on a tangent do you. remember though ' 80s standup comedians. like they would make just the worst. jokes that just would not fly like they. get chased off stage by people with like. like just the jokes they would make AIDS. jokes and and famine jokes oh yeah yeah.

you mean as far as sure just like the. material they would make jokes about and. they like they weren't even remotely. funny you know yeah like it was not not. Nuance or smarts or anything it yeah I. think Sam Kennison made like starving. Ethiopian kid jokes right like give him. a sandwich cameraman wasn't that. him was that him I think so like you. just people can't do that today it's. different world yeah so yeah probably.

won't be any jokes in this one no uh. what there will be is tons of. information and hopefully everybody who. will understand fam after this can come. together and prevent them for the rest. of Eternity unless climate change gets. us as we'll see at the end yes I just. spoiled it though didn't I yeah that's. I'm glad you sent that though that was. relevant yeah yeah so everybody has a. pretty good idea of what famine is it's. when you run out of food and a bunch of. people start dying that's actually.

pretty close to the real definition but. there's this guy who's a scholar of. famine his name is Cormac grada and he. um has written several books on famines. and studied famines and he's a pretty. sharp Tac so people kind of look to him. to say what's the actual definition of a. famine and he says in his best Irish. accent uh it's a lot like malnutrition. yeah but it's a lot worse there's a lot. more crisis there's a lot more death.

yeah specifically he says it's a. shortage of food or purchasing power. that leads directly to excess mortality. from starvation or hunger induced. diseases and um that's an important add. addition because it's not just hunger. starvation related but uh all the. disease that comes along with that that. can kill people right very much more. easily because you are so undernourished. right and we'll find out too it's a if a.

bit of a vicious cycle like as people. start to uh get hungry and start to. starve and start to suffer from disease. uh they have an even harder time say. working in a field to produce crops and. so the whole thing just keeps getting. worse and worse and worse once it passes. a a Breaking Point it really starts to. spiral out of control yeah it's a it's a. three-pronged uh Terror of poverty. hunger and disease right all. contributing to one another right so.

coraco gr's definition of a famine is a. daily death rate um of above one per. 10,000 people is that. 10,000 yeah all right it had a period. and not a comma that's um that's. European and I didn't uh is it it's got. to be because that didn't that's like. Point 0000 one% of the population per. day was that right yeah I think that is.

10,000 okay because just off the top of. my head like the normal American death. rate is like 823 per 100,000 people so. that is significantly more a daily death. rate that's the first characteristic. yeah number two is the proportion of. wasted children is above. 20% and wasted means they're their. muscle mass is withering away due to. starvation yeah technically it means. they weigh two standard deviation.

or more below average and just that term. itself is like the most heartbreaking. thing you can imagine wasted children. yeah man in any sense it's not a good. thing but especially when it has to do. with famine uh and then finally the. prevalence of what's called uh quaser. cor which is um it's basically an. extreme malnutrition due to protein. deficiency yeah and those pictures. everybody who grew up in the 80s yeah. and saw the pictures of The Starving. Children in Africa that were just little.

skin and bone kids but they had these. huge bloated Pot Bellies That's a. classic Hallmark of quash cor yeah very. sad yeah uh and then he went on to. qualify it further with severe famine. and means a daily death rate above five. out of 10,000 uh proportion of wasted. children above 40% and then that same. quaser core prevalence right so if. quaser is around you got a famine on. your hands that's not a norm thing that.

happens in a normal food secure. population yeah and that's that's the. main distinguishing factor between. famine and just uh what you would. consider malnutrition and this is all. tied into what we call Food security. right and we we we talked about food. security before I think maybe in. desertification or something like that. yeah I know we have at some point uh but. we've talked a lot about the food the. Green Revolution too which factors in. but um food security is that means you.

have you have food available you can get. to that food or that food can get to you. readily and you can use that food to. meet your health needs you can leverage. it to make your population healthy yeah. like if it's if your entire country's. food supply is Twinkies you do not have. food security there's an abundance of it. people can get to it very easily it's. probably affordable for everybody but. it's not nutritious or if your country. has nothing but like the finest fruits.

and vegetables and proteins but only the. very wealthy have access to it because. it's too expensive well you don't have. food security so according to the UN if. you have food Security in a nation all. people at all times have physical social. and economic access to sufficient safe. and nutritious food that meets their. dietary needs and get this food. preferences yeah for an active and. healthy life yeah which I mean we'll. talk about Ethiopia some later but at.

one point the goal was which they you. know never met was that not only would. they have food one day readily available. but be able to choose what they wanted. to eat right like there something you. don't think about you really take that. for granted here in the United States. and elsewhere yeah um it's not just. having food but like oh I might like to. eat this or that right you. know uh all right so a lot of things can. affect this food security um and we're. going to talk about all these as. throughout the show as they relate to. fam but.

obviously you think of natural disasters. first and probably drought first yeah. that's a that's a big one it is a big. one undeniably if you don't have water. and Rain you can't grow crops usually no. uh crop blight uh which we'll talk a. little bit about the Potato Famine in. Ireland uh later on um but any kind of. disease pest even like a overabundance. of weeds could conceivably ruin a crop. flooding uh extraordinarily cold weather. extraordinarily hot weather we'll just.

say weather patterns in general yeah. severe weather uh and then a big one. which a lot of people a lot of people I. think mainly think of natural disasters. or natural factors and uh political. conflict is one of the big big big. contributors so here see this is what. we're coming to though eventually is. there's a big debate on what causes. famine and for many many years everyone. said well don't be dumb droughts cause. famine right but.

studies much more recent Studies have. found that actually if you kind of peak. behind the curtain a little bit yeah. there was a drought and it started the. famine but what actually caused the. famine yeah or caused it to be horrible. is usually government either government. that uh has bungled something or um just. isn't moved to actually care to do. anything to alleviate the famine as. we'll see yeah what I gathered from. reading this was. most famine throughout all of history is.

has been caused by Natural Factors but. modern famine like from the 19th century. on has largely been that plus government. factors yeah does that sound about right. yeah all right I think the very presence. of famine in the globalized. era. is just because of government's screwing. things up yes because there is enough.

food to feed everyone at this point. right and enough of a trade supply lines. and government Aid agencies and NOS who. are working to to get that food to those. people in crisis that a lot of times. there's people standing in their way yes. another big uh it it it can be sort of a. domino effect too so when you have food. Security in one place start to uh. crumble or Wayne Uh then you have. another country nearby maybe may start. stockpiling uh for them M elves uh fewer.

exports and protecting their own. population and then that drives up Pro. uh prices right for people that were. depending on importing that food and it. just starts this big vicious cycle right. exactly um back in. 2008 there were food riots in Bangladesh. and Haiti and Egypt do you remember that. because of rice right it was because of. rice but the global food price had like. when they look at food prices they look. at baskets of of foods around the World.

um put them together and say this is how. much food costs these days it Rose. between 2002 and8 food prices Rose 140%. globally and a lot of people got priced. out of the market yeah and when they. looked at uh what happened apparently. 75% of that price increase was due to. using food for biofuels like using crops. that normally would have gone to food. were being used to create energy like. biofuels right yeah and so that drove.

grain prices up through the roof because. speculators got involved and food was. being diverted from the food supply into. the energy Supply and then crop land was. being increasingly diverted to produce. the stuff for the energy Supply as well. and it had a huge effect that just drove. food prices up around the world one of. the big problems that can contribute to. famines as we'll see in a lot of famines. there are people still producing food.

yeah for export because they can't. afford it that are starving but their. country starving to death yeah but they. can't afford it because they they don't. have the money so TS but the rest of us. do have the money so keep growing that. food yeah it's pretty devastating effect. yeah uh and it's obviously most. devastating for um and you always hear. about this the two groups the elderly. and the young um I don't know about the. total number of children but the stat. that I have from the UN the most recent.

stat I have is that. 21,000 children die of hunger every day. day yep geez every four. seconds oh that's awful yeah it's. sobering to say the least so uh you know. what happens is especially if you're. young or you're old uh that disease sets. in and little kids and old people can't. fight it like um you know the parents.

can and then you know the parents are in. bad shape too it's not like anyone's. doing great when you're malnourished. your immune system starts to decline and. when your immune system starts to. decline that's then disease comes in. especially if um a group starts to. migrate in search of food yeah because. then you could be living in um. unsanitary conditions and everybody has. lower immune systems and you're. basically in a herd now move like moving. to a different place to get food. and so a disease can just rip through a.

population well yeah and and uh the. article points out that refugees are not. often resettled in you know the most. hospitable areas either so uh moving. doesn't necessarily help the cause Y in. a lot of cases um all right well let's. take a break and we're going to come. back and talk a little bit about some of. the more uh noteworthy famines. throughout history. [Music].

you all right so I said we're were going. to talk about historical famines. I lied that's coming.

later is that all right yeah that's fine. all right so we're going to talk you. sent this great article um what was the. name of it the history of humanity is a. history of hunger it was written by a. guy named Mark Joseph Stern on slate. this is a good one yeah yeah he's. basically ringing the belly saying hey. guys uh there seems to be this movement. toward looking at famines as the result. of dictatorships yeah which which we'll. get into Super interesting um but let's.

not forget something else and it's a. little something called global climate. change yeah because I think from Stern's. perspective he doesn't put this. explicitly but he basically. says yes dictatorships can have this. effect and have had this effect it's. proven but really honestly that's fairly. localized from a globalized perspective. yeah right e even if it just happens in. China that's still technically local. as far as the globe is concerned and.

that means that there's other people. around the globe that can help the. people in China or Ethiopia or Ireland. or wherever famine happens again yeah so. we've got stuff in place but if the. entire Global food supply starts to. become threatened by climate change then. we're all toast I think is ultimately. the message of what he's saying yeah and. he he was kind of saying like he kind of. set it up really well throughout history. and then said but nowadays you know. things have never been better there's. more food than ever supply chain is more.

robust right so like we shouldn't have. anything to worry about right like on a. global scale and that's when he said you. know you might want to look at some of. these studies right and uh one of them. there was a report from the UN. intergovernmental panel on climate. change and they said that uh Rising. temperatures around the globe are. cutting into Global food supply um I. think to the point now where if it. continues at current levels there could. be a 2% cut in crop Harvest Each decade. moving forward yeah and it might not.

sound like a lot 2% a decade though but. when you couple that with a rising. population that's a problem um. especially like in the short term you. might think oh well you can grow more. food more places if if it's warmer if. things are melting that's true in a lot. of cases yeah and certainly more CO2. will increase yields in the short term. but um in the long term warming Trends. will make crops Wilt especially near the. tropics I saw one stat that said 3% I'm. sorry 3° Celsius increase in temperature.

at the tropics could uh cut corn crops. by 20% wow so it's you know it's a real. threat yeah well even without a massive. temperature change like that or an. increase in CO2 one of the trademarks of. um climate change is severe weather. which we're seeing more and more it. seems yeah too much rain severe weather. is not good for crops yeah or either one. over. like a couple year period you're not.

going to be able to grow crops or your. growing season's going to be shortened. or it the the whole crop will just be. wiped out right there at the end who. knows well and then the other thing you. need to think about which he points out. is well we can invent our way out of. this right like technology will take. care of it always yeah and uh the study. from NASA there's a more dire one from. NASA than even the UN one um that. basically says we're screwed um and the. NASA one says technological change tends. to raise both per capita resource.

consumption and the scale of resource. extraction basically. meaning it just is sort of a net net. like we can't invent our way out of it. right like it's net net up till the. point where we run out of resources yes. then we're toast yes so there is a big. threat from climate change but what. Stern's saying is actually kind of retro. to tell you the truth because up until. the last couple decades. everybody looked at famine as strictly.

a a natural disaster yeah and it it. started to become increasingly apparent. of what kind of a man-made disaster. famine can be um especially when people. started to look at China's Great Famine. yeah back as part of the MA's cultural. revolution so Chuck China I didn't. really realize this I don't think I. didn't know a lot about it either there. was there's a um something called when.

Mao took over when the Communists took. over China in. 1949 um one of the things that Mao set. his sights on Chairman Mao ma zun was. that he wanted to show the West just how. great communism was it was the same. dream of Stalin um but he also wanted to. be the top guy in the Communist world. too so he was very ambitious and one of. the ways to do that was one of the same. path that Stalin had followed which was.

well we've got a lot of Agriculture here. let's use our agriculture to fund and. finance industrialization yeah so we're. going to shock the system we're going to. take these old agrarian backwards ways. we're going to put them together in this. great communist way and we're going to. squeeze as much productivity out of them. as we can we're going to funnel that. money into the workers in the cities. we're going to make China the Glorious. leader of the world and we're going to. catch up to productivity. uh to the productivity of the UK or the.

US within 10 years 5 years which is. insane yeah it's called the Great Leap. Forward uh and it was a 5-year plan. which you're right it was it was I mean. to call it ambitious it was what it was. was a disaster in the making right uh. because what happened was especially. when you live under uh someone like mous. Tong you're going to have people that. are afraid to tell the truth about. what's going on yeah so what happened. from the very beginning is uh officials. either driven by fear or just because.

they were so caught up in the movement. started um exaggerating reports of uh. crop success like they were literally. reporting like three to five times what. they were really bringing in with their. crops right uh and then the authorities. came along and basically took those. crops to the urban centers killed off. anyone who had any opposition to this. well I think they were also killed off. locally too like if you were going to. say no this guy's lying about crop. yields yeah by the local people would.

would take care of you yeah yeah you. would just disappear uh and so what. happened in 1958 this is an actual quote. uh mous Tong said to distribute. resources evenly will only ruin the. Great Leap Forward uh when there is not. enough to eat people starve to death it. is better to let half the people die so. that the others can eat their fill so. this there you have it right it was very. clearly a man-made famine like they were. aware of it um and you you wonder like. why were they coming to grab the grain. well grain had turned from something.

that people produced locally for. basically local consumption yeah into a. national commodity that was used to feed. these workers and then to sell on the. global market to finance the Glorious. Revolution right so when grain was. turned into a commodity and people were. giv quotas to meat uh if you wanted to. get ahead you could just say oh we had. this great great yield this this year. yeah so we've got all this green and. there were cases where the Chinese. government would come and requisition.

more grain than the the the than they. had than they'd even grown that year. based on these false reports right so. people started to starve clearly Mao had. no problem with it because it was the. people out in the in it was the farmers. not the workers who were starving and in. three years the lowest number anyone's. willing to say of the total number of. people who died in 3 years from this. famine is 15 million people. yeah that's the lowest that's what the.

Chinese government itself officially. says yeah I've seen numbers I've seen a. total population loss and that means 35. million deaths and 40 million people. that weren't born because of all this oh. yeah so a total population loss of 75. million um and it's still apparently. like I looked into it today it's very. taboo to even talk about it today in. China right and they don't they don't. even call it a famine they call it uh. three years of natural disaster or three.

years of difficulties right that's what. they call it capitalized yeah yeah like. that's the official name yeah it's. amazing yeah and apparently the um yeah. they don't talk about it it's not. obviously not taught in schools. certainly not taught as the the result. of a. calamitous um government policy because. that same government the Communist part. is still in charge there but yeah that. was a huge enormous famine and I guess. scholarship on that started to open.

people's eyes about how human. intervention could make a a famine much. much worse same thing with Ethiopia as. well um Ethiopia's Almost Famous in a. weird way for for famines yeah they were. especially like you said if you grew up. in the 80s it was sort of the face of. famine and drought uh was. Ethiopia um and if you go back you know. back in time prime minister uh melis.

zenawi um this was what more than 20. years ago at this point that when I. mentioned earlier what his vision for. the country he said you know I hope in. 10 years that Ethiopians will eat three. times a day and after 20 years not only. going to have enough food but they're. going to have the luxury of choosing. what they eat uh he was in office for 21. years before he died in power and uh. things these days aren't a whole lot. better no so um. like I I I remember learning about.

Ethiopia and their famines and I just. was thinking like wow they must have. just the worst weather they've got the. worst luck with weather yeah turns out. no they had the worst luck with. governments yeah um so they had a a. famine in. 1973 that the government basically just. covered up yeah the wallow famine yeah. and in that 300,000 people died uh and. even though there were there was. actually plenty of food the reason the.

famine had come along was because food. prices had increased just a little bit. but the people in the wallow region were. so poor they couldn't afford the food. that was even available to them yeah and. this is 1973 the same year that uh. Emperor Hy salassi spent $35 million on. his 80th birthday celebration right so. yeah it's starting to kind of become. clear what's going on and then the very. famous famine famous here in the west.

the 1983 to 85 famine um everyone who is. funding that that was when Banda a came. out they had that do they know it's. Christmas song yeah um they had the live. a concerts Phil Collins flew in the. Concord from London to Philadelphia to. play two shows at the same night do you. remember live a how old were you you. this is 84 yeah I was eight do you. remember it happening like did you watch. it I remember the Phil Collins thing of.

course you do yeah cuz he Love Phil. Collins sure no I totally remember I was. babysitting at a summer gig a regular. summer gig where I would babysit these. kids like for half days like you know. Monday through Friday right and I was. babysitting these kids and we watched. Live Aid and I remember seeing of course. Phil Collins sure and uh I remember. seeing the amazing performance by Queen. like it's still like one of their like. Hall Mark performances was their Live.

Aid um but yeah it was like it was all. over the place USA for Africa it was one. of the big causes because of this famine. right and it was great like there was. all these great pictures of or not great. pictur but there were pictures spread. far and why that were waking up the West. like guys there's a huge problem you got. to give and band-aid and live a raised. 150 million dollar in 1984 for famine. relief in e in Ethiopia they had a. significant impact yeah but what no one.

realized because the reporters were too. lazy to report and the government was. doing a good job covering up this famine. was not the direct result of a drought. or a crop failure the government was. actually fighting a civil war secretly. against the um what the group that now. makes up arria the arrian um ethnic. group uh and the government was like. Napal ing the crop lands there blowing.

up uh cargo. transports um blowing up farmers markets. to affect the food supply and to create. a famine it was a man-made famine yeah. and not only that you know I talked. about frivolous spending by the. government they spent that year in uh I. think 1983 they spent between 100. million and $200 million to celebrate. the 10th anniversary of the. revolution almost like up to $200. million so here's here's the thing I'm.

reading this article from spin I think. it was written in 1986 called the. terrible truth about band-aid uhhuh and. so at the time there were a lot of um. Aid groups working in Ethiopia and if. you said anything about how the. government was taking this um the like. Aid money and using it for themselves. and not Distributing it correctly they. were trying to put tariffs and uh taxes. on Aid shipments into the country just.

to make money off of it if you said. anything your your group would get. kicked out right and apparently medicine. SS Frontiers Doctors Without Borders um. had raised the alarms and they got. kicked out of Ethiopia and they went to. Bob gof and said hey um we know you have. $150 million that you're about to give. to Ethiopia let us tell you what's. really going on there yeah and then you. just wait until there's a stable. government to give it to. and he was like nah it's fine it'll be.

fine I'd rather I'd rather work with. these devils and help these people out a. little bit than than just not right and. a lot of people say that he um he was. extremely Reckless and basically just. gave $150 million to an autocratic. government that was creating a famine in. its own country W is that a new article. no it it's from 1986 oh wow all right I. need to check that out yeah it's called. the terrible truth about live or about. Band-Aid about Band-Aid yeah uh well. there's a great great book in this same. article uh that's referenced that you.

sent um a Nobel prize winning Economist. named Maria sin wrote a book called. development is freedom and basically. kind of backs up what we're talking. about uh sin says that you know authorit. authoritarian systems are the the ones. who have famines yeah uh and they went. back and did a historical investigation. and these are 20th Century famines 30. major famines that happen were all in. countries led by autocratic rule or that. were under armed conflict at the time. yeah and the the um this article from I.

don't I wish I knew who wrote it I feel. terrible but it was in huffpo so there. you go um the the author said there's a. country right next to Ethiopia that that. has a lot of the same weather a lot of. the same soil conditions growing. conditions crop land batswana they said. batswana is a um democracy yeah mids. yeah it has been since the 60s and since. it's been a democracy it's never had a. famine and it's right next door to.

Ethiopia well yeah and the whole idea. there is that if resources were not. being allocated properly the people. would have a voice and change the people. in power but when you're under. autocratic rule you're either completely. squashed or so disregarded that they. don't care if you are dying basically. you're in power so and they can't do. anything to change it right they don't. need your Vote or your support because. they got a barrel of a gun at you. that's how they stay in power yeah a.

group called Human Rights Watch which is. great I know we've talked about them. before uh in 2010 they did a report. called development without Freedom how. Aid underwrites repression in Ethiopia. and it just completely confirms all of. this yeah that it's just it's. suppression of a people and watching. them die and not caring and it's still. going on so let's take another break and. then we'll talk about Ireland and then. we'll talk about how to combat famines. [Music].

stop you should know. so Chuck um I think when most people.

think of famine they think if not of. Ethiopia then of Ireland because Ireland. had one heck of a famous famine back in. the 19th century that actually created. Ireland and the Irish as we know him. today yeah the Irish Potato Famine um. our cohorts our colleagues Tracy and. holot stuff you miss in history class. did they do one on it yeah did a great. episode just on this so I recommend. listening to that but um here's our. knuckleheaded.

overview uh this was uh also called the. Great Irish famine and their Famine of. 1845 to 49 because that's when it. happened um this was one of the ones. that initially was caused by uh disease. it it's called late blight and it. basically. destroyed kind of every part of the. potato yeah the leaves the roots which I. mean if you're eating a potato The Roots. is what you're after sure um they had a.

a I guess a cold rainy spring yeah it's. kind of a perfect storm of bad luck. right and this this microbe showed up. from North America accidentally from. what we understand yeah and so there. were three successive years of dead. crops and one of the reasons why this. had such an impact is that by this time. by the middle of the 19th century in. Ireland there were a lot of um Irish. farmers who were basic subsistence. Farmers a lot of farmers in Ireland were.

small small land farmers who were tenant. Farmers which means they they they work. the land and they had to give up a. substantial amount of their crop yield. in this case to Great Britain which uh. held Ireland under colonial rule at the. time yes and they could keep a little. bit for themselves to keep their family. alive so they could come out and work. the fields for another day right yeah. most of those people depended almost. exclusively on potatoes. yeah not only for income but like what.

they ate on a daily basis exactly so for. their nutrition and not only that but. they they had whittel it down to just a. couple of varieties of potato it's like. the problem with Kimo yeah it's like. that's bad news if uh disease strikes or. or blight or something like that if. you've got just a couple of varieties. and you're dependent on that as a nation. and they're both susceptible to that. blight yeah then you're you're screwed. right and that's exactly what happened. yeah um said in the early 1840s almost. half the Irish uh population depended.

almost exclusively on the potato for. diet right and especially the rural poor. farmers and um in 1845 that uh that. strain it was called phto uh phyo. Thora I think so I think there's got to. be some silent letters in there there's. a there's a lot of consonant Jo together. phop. Thora and um like you said that came. from North America and everything just. rotted and uh this was the natural part.

of it so then you have England the the. controlling body MH um like needs to. step in and do something and. they kind of did but not enough chin up. yeah keep keep that grain coming our way. yeah there was a prime minister named. Sir Robert Peele and he he provide a. little bit of relief he authorized. import of corn from the United States uh. helped avoid a little bit of starvation. but it was certainly not a problem.

solver no and again they really did say. uh we're sorry you're having these. troubles we'll see what we can do but. keep those grain Imports coming yeah cuz. just like in that wallow uh famine in. Ethiopia there were plenty of places in. Ireland where the there was grain in. abundance but the people growing the. grain couldn't afford it yes and so. because the people elsewhere were having. problems with potato crop the price of. food was going through the roof because.

there was less food overall and the. people back in Great Britain still. typically had money to pay for this food. so they were exporting the stuff out of. Ireland during a famine for their own. consumption including livestock which. must be fed that grain so to add insul. to injury they were saying you guys are. starving over there keep exporting that. grain but feed some of it to your. livestock and then export the livestock. to us to eat yeah and not only that it.

was just so compounded it's just like so. frustrating to look it like through a. modern lens of like things that they. could have done differently but um the. these poor Farmers like you said that. they were farming a lot of time on farms. owned by British absentee land owners. they couldn't Farm all of a sudden so. they weren't getting paid so then they. in turn couldn't pay rent back to the. landowners right and so they were. basically evicted hundred hundreds of. thousands of tenant farmers were evicted.

uh under these years and uh there was in. 1834 there was something called the. British poor law enacted in 1838 in. Ireland that said uh able-bodied. indigents uh were sent to a workhouse uh. rather than given relief so now you're. sent to a workhouse you're not even like. farming the land that you lived on to. provide for your family right which is a. terrible terrible move in any famine. part of the Spiral that spiral out of. control of famine is something called. livelihood shock when farmers who can.

still conceivably grow um food get. priced out of their own uh crop land. yeah and they can't afford to work any. longer you you're food supply is taking. a a further hit which you should not. allow to happen but the British. government definitely did allow it to. happen um the guy who came after John. Peele uh or Robert Peele not John Peele. yeah um the guy who came after Robert. Peele uh Lord John Russell he did even.

less than um Peele did and basically. kicked it back to Ireland to deal with. but still give us your your export that. grain to us and we'll just leave it to. the free markets if you ever leave. dealing with the famine to the markets. to hammer out you have abdicated all. responsibility for dealing with that. famine yeah that's not okay the F the. markets aren't equipped to deal with a. famine. right the famine happens when the. markets break down right and it you need.

assistance to correct that right it. doesn't just work itself out uh so you. know Ireland already is not so happy to. be under the thumb of uh the British MH. um this got even worse when there was. this sort of attitude among sort of the. elite uh of of England that um you know. what this is this is really just a sort. of a correction because you know those. Irish all they do is have children and. there are far too many of them anyway.

these poor Irish people have 10 kids so. this is sort of a necessary correction. um in the long run yeah apparently at. the time that was a bit of the mentality. of the intellectuals of England yeah so. that's not going to do yourself any. favors as far as getting along no and. and one of the other things that. happened was a consolidation of wealth. like all of those small farms that were. that people were getting kicked off of. because they couldn't pay their rent the. their landlords couldn't afford the.

Farms any longer either cuz they weren't. able to collect rent and so wealthier. land owners said I'll buy your farming. you're farming you're farming you're. farming you're farming here go buy some. corn you can get it from the soup. kitchen over here and then they put it. together so these small farms that form. these communities now were single large. Farms owned by single wealthy land. owners as a result it's kind of like. that saying if there's blood in the. streets bu real estate right that's what. those guys were doing yeah not cool so.

in the end this had a a huge effect on. the uh I mean the way they put in this. article the demographic history of. Ireland um directly caed from the famine. their population of about 8.4 million in. 188 uh sorry. 1844 fell to 6.6 million uh just seven. years later and uh about a million. people died literally just died from. starvation and by the time Ireland. achieved independence in 1921 in 1921.

the population was barely half of what. it was in the early 1840s yeah because. and that's not supposed to happen death. and. immigration yeah how many like people uh. another two I think a million died and. another two million immigrated as a. result yeah New York City baby yeah. that's how New York got to be New York. yep so we've got um we've got a pretty. good idea of what famin are how they. happen there is still that struggle. between how much of it is manmade how.

much of it is natural I think it's a. combination of the two at this time sure. but how do you prevent something like a. famine Chuck well um there's a lot of. controversy and. um there's a lot of controversy. surrounding it and a lot of people. rightfully are saying that even Aid. groups like what we're doing is putting. a Band-Aid on something and they're not. like getting to the root of some of. these problems and is great you know.

it's keeping people alive right they're. not saying don't do that no but it's not. addressing the real problems right and. apparently the real problems are. autocratic rule well one of them for. sure yeah yeah uh another one is you. know just food. education um there are food for work. programs which apparently are working. out pretty good so they'll have you know. I think they will deliver some food Aid. to get people able-bodied enough to work. and then um try and get people working. on uh infrastructure jobs in the country.

um in exchange for food yeah in exchange. for food yeah and I would imagine money. I don't know that for sure but I don't. think it's straight up food I wonder if. like uh yeah I wonder maybe it seems. like it'd be a combination of the two. sure or maybe not I don't know yeah. another one um. is hashing out early warning signs. apparently they have different um scales. now of food security to kind of gauge. where a country is as far as it's spiral.

towards famine yeah like don't wait till. you're seeing the UNICEF commercial. right before you act but not only that. you government of this this this the. people that are about to enter into a. famine you need to do certain things. like there's a famine that um is I. believe Ethiopia is on the verge of. another one again right now and part of. the problem is the government denied. that this was that this was happening. happening that there was going to be a. famine they said we have food security.

yeah and they so the the author of that. huffpo article pointed out no there's. plenty of food but it's too expensive in. a lot of places so that's not food. security yeah and they didn't do enough. like they didn't tell um cattle herders. to move their their um herds closer to. like reliable water sources they didn't. there's steps and actions that. governments that that care about their. people or care at least about the food. supply um can take. and there are early warning signs and. apparently they are born out of famine.

codes from 19th century India oh really. India had a string of famines in the. 19th century that killed like 17 million. people so they really started to pay. attention to what made up the warning. signs or fam of famine well there is. something it was created in 1985 and it. may have been based on what you're. talking about called the famine early. Warning Systems Network and they monitor. these Trends in food. prices uh food security basically you. can compare it to other years other. areas and right now because I want to.

see like kind of what the current state. of the world was uh there is a global. alert um emergency food assistant needs. un uh needs are unprecedented in these. four areas right now Nigeria Yemen South. Sudan and Somalia are the most uh the. areas of the highest concern and it has. the reasons of concern right here. Nigeria the boo uh Haram conflict so.

there you have it right yeah it doesn't. have to be a a dictatorship being lazy. you can be in the middle of a war torn. country and people aren't growing crops. like they normally do when a war is not. on so there's one and Yemen uh extensive. conflict has reduced incomes and food. prices remain elevated uh South Sudan. conflict uh severely disrupted trade. humanitarian access and livelihoods then. finally. Somalia Somalia was the only one of the. four that uh seemed like it was uh.

weather related huh and it said that um. the December I don't know how it's. pronounced the r season they're two. rainy Seasons the the goo season and the. D or de dur season and apparently. they've both been below average huh so. it looks like in Somalia it's due to. rainfall but elsewhere it's you know. conflict conflict conflict so if you. care if you want to help if you want to. uh make a difference look around do your. research find an aid group that you feel.

good about and uh give money give time. do something don't just sit back and eat. your Big Mac and forget about the whole. thing agreed if you want to know more. about famine you can type that word in. the search bar at howstuffworks.com. since I said search bar it's time for. listen or. mail I think this one trumps. homelessness surely we won't get an. email saying that people. deserve children deser deserve to die. every 4 seconds I don't know. if we do we'll get they'll all start. with I believe in a vengeful.

God all right I'm going to call this one. uh whatever happened to Super Fan Sarah. remember that mm Sarah Sparrow the. amazing 12-year-old fan right yeah so I. listen do uh several podcasts per day. guys uh to learn something and to drown. out the buzz of the office I work in I. was going through so many that I had uh. caught up to the present forcing me to. dig way back to the archive instead of. waiting for the newest one so he's. saying swiching right that's smart it's. the way to do it at the end of the.

podcast in 2010 about grandfather's. diets shortening Our Lives um. fascinating by the way MH this was June. 2010 you got the email from uh Sarah who. had been listening to the show uh since. she was 11 at the time she was 13 you. mention you should go to her high school. graduation and be the keyn note speaker. you were still doing this well 2017 my. math is right then uh Sarah is 20 years. old it's crazy and halfway through. college it's so crazy so uh I hope you.

guys don't feel too old but I think is. an exceptional accomplishment you're. still doing the show they more popular. than ever keep up the good work Josh. Taylor and Josh you know he asked about. Sarah sadly we haven't heard from Sarah. in years we're like The Giving Tree we. got ditched she ditched us and um or she. just you know still listens and doesn't. right in right she's playing it cool. maybe so well she is you know 20 years. old it's not super cool cool to still be. the Sarah the amazing seven-year-old or.

11-year-old man your smelly old pseudo. uncles but Sarah if you are out. there hit us up yeah say hi send us an. email we would love love love to hear. from you yeah we'll even guaranteed read. it on the on the air and you know what. that goes for you too Sam who is in. College summer of Sam Sam so uh all of. our younger listeners like they grow up. and they forget about us it's true it's. so sad but then they turn like 40 50 and. they'll come back they'll be.

back well if you want to get in touch. with this for a while make us feel. pretty good and then forget about us you. can send us an email to stuff podcast. howstuffworks.com and as always join us. at our home on the web stuff you should. know.com. stuff you should know is a production of. iHeart radio for more podcasts ihart. radio visit the iHeart Radio app Apple. podcasts or wherever you listen to your. favorite shows. [Music].