Selects: How Bras Work | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW

Hey everybody, it's Josh and yeah, we. did an episode on bras. What of it? Yeah, we're two dudes, but we're. carrying on a long-standing tradition, we found out, because it turns out that. just about every bra in history, [music]. and they go back pretty far, was. invented by a man. And that includes the. guy who filed the patent for the first. modern bra. [music] This also explains. why until very recently, bras were. profoundly uncomfortable and usually had. some sort of lace or something and maybe. were see-through.

That's neither [clears throat] here nor. there, though, because in this episode, we cover everything there is to know. about bras, and I feel like we came out. of it as better people. I'll leave it to. you to decide how we did. Either way, enjoy this episode from [music] 2020 on. Bras. >> Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a. production of iHeart Radio. >> [music]. >> Hey and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh.

Clark and there's Charles W. Chuck. Bryant and um it's just us again. >> Just us. >> We've lost Jerry. >> I'm in [music] the studio uh like I was. on the last one, but it's still a ghost. studio. There's no one here. >> Sure. Except for Tommy Chong and the. radio or the record player, right? Sure. >> Good. We'll just leave it at that. >> We said that um we have a a somebody.

poised to like scratch the needle off. the record several episodes ago. >> Yeah, I remember that. >> And that it was Tommy Chong who whose. job it was to do that now. >> That's right. Good call back. >> Thank you. >> Should we talk bras? >> Yeah, we're talking bras, man. which I. appreciate it when we do stuff like. this, episodes like this, because we. have to try harder because we're men, you know. >> Sure. >> The usual. >> It's the only time we have to try harder. in life,

>> sadly. That is kind of true. Um, but we. we've haven't shied away from topics. that have very little to do with us, like um corsets. We did one on how. corsets work. >> Do you remember that? >> We totally did a whole episode on. corsets. Jeez. >> Uh we did one on female puberty. >> Yeah. Footbinding. >> Yeah. We've done a lot of them. So this. is just. >> done three. >> One and the same. A three is a lot when.

it comes to this kind of stuff. >> Yeah. No, I'm just kidding. And and uh. we we did mention doing one on. ministration not too long ago, and we. got a bunch of supportive emails saying. like, "Yes, guys, please do that. Like. there's no reason why you shouldn't. >> Please. I've been ministrating for 50. years, and I still don't understand it. Please explain. >> Yeah, exactly. [laughter]. >> So, actually, we have not gotten that. email. Although, we wouldn't know if we. had, you know. >> Uh, yeah, because our email server's. down. Sorry if you've been bounced, everyone. >> Yeah, we're working on it.

>> Yep. >> So, we're talking bras, uh, which is. short for Brisier, which doesn't have a. a definite origin as far as we know. We. think that it came about in the 20th. century, early 20th century. I think it. first appeared in print in 1907 or. something like that. And that in French. it means one of two things. It means. either arm covering which is I think. derived from like medieval armor, French. medieval armor. Don't know. And then the. other thing I saw was a child's vest,

which that to me is just lovely. If. that's what they're trying to say with. the bra that it's like a child-siz vest. that you wear around your over your. breasts. I love that idea. [laughter]. >> You want to know something funny? >> Yes. >> For the first 10 minutes researching. this, this was put together by our pal. Dave Ruse. >> I kept thinking, why is Ruse Why does he. keep talking about brasseries? Why does. he keep talking about. >> That's funny. >> Quaint little French restaurant.

>> That's funny. >> It's very close. It looks like Brazier. >> It does. Well, yeah. Yeah. Um Yeah, it. does. I think if that I was just a. little further toward the end, we would. be talking about casual French. restaurants, [laughter] the TGI Fridays. of France. Well, that's that's better. than my experience. For the first 30. minutes, I was researching nothing but. car bras. >> Oh [laughter] god, the LeBra. Remember. those? >> No.

I think there was a LeBra, which was one. of the big uh popular models at the time. for like Porsches and stuff like that. >> I don't remember that at all. >> You know, my dad very stupidly bought a. Porsche when I was in high school. >> Oh, no. With that um food truck money, >> with that big big public school teacher. money, [laughter]. he went out uh he went out and bought a. Porsche. Wow. and and surprised my mom. and the rest of the family. >> Oh my god. >> With a a sweet Porsche 911, >> like a new one.

>> that no one was allowed to like breathe. on. Uh no, it wasn't new. >> Doesn't matter. >> But uh he he very quickly went out and. uh this is very my dad. And like the. next week he had like the Porsche. Isizod, the Porsche glasses, the Porsche. hat. And uh we didn't have that for very. long. I think I drove it one time like. around the block and he was like and and. it was they were not fun cars to drive. They were very difficult to drive. >> Yeah. Yeah. They're all about being in. as one with the road and if the road's.

not so great then it's not not very fun. >> Yeah. But I will say piggybacking on. this story um I've been watching the TV. show Red Oaks. Have you ever seen it? >> I have never even heard of it. >> I hadn't either. It's uh it was an. Amazon show that ran for three seasons. about sort of like Catty Shacky. It's a. kid who works at a tennis club in the. >> 80s. >> And um very very 80s show and the the. the drug dealer drives this really sweet. Porsche 928. >> Mhm.

>> Remember those? >> Is that the pointy one that looks kind. of like a Lotus Aspree? >> Yeah. Well, it's Yeah. The Risky. Business car. >> Okay. I never saw that movie. >> Oh, really? >> Yeah. >> Oh, dude. You need to see Risky. Business. Great movie. I I've got a a. list going. >> It's really It's really good. But. anyway, the 920 like the 911 gets all. the, you know, all the headlines, but. that 928 was so sweet and I was like, man, I wonder what you could get an 80s. 928 for. I bet it's not that much.

>> Oh, and I looked it up. >> How much? [laughter]. >> Well, there was a range like you can get. one that's in not great a shape for like. $12,000. or up to 60 grand for a cherry low. mileage one, >> right? I think that's pretty much the. same with all vintage cars. I was. looking at Pinto station wagons. >> Man, we're at different ends of the. spectrum. >> There's about four or five mint. condition Pinto station wagons in. existence that are really expensive.

The rest are exactly what you would. expect. >> That's funny. >> So, we're talking bras today. Obviously, we just wanted to uh get rid of anybody. who might benefit from listening to. this. So, we talked about Porsches and. stuff. >> Yeah. So, the bras, the modern bra has. only been around for about 150 years. And Dave makes a really good point of. the fact that this thing that's only. been around for 150 years, has been one. of the most complicated garments in the. history of the world, I think.

>> Yeah. Not necessarily in its design or. manufacturer, but in its relation to. society as a whole. Right. >> Yeah. >> Totally. Right. So, you've got um. apparently a complete and utter lack of. bras, but as women started to play. sports a little more, it was okay for. them to wear bras. I think in the 20th. century, um and in fact, it was a woman. who invented the sports bra. Um two.

women actually, I think in 1977, um they invented what was called the jog. bra from two jock straps that they put. together. But what's, you know, it's. kind of a funny cute little origin. story, but they ended up like. revolutionizing sports. Like women. were allowed to play sports. I think. Title Nine had been passed a couple. years before this, but the fact is you. couldn't play sports because there. wasn't much support out there for you.

So to invent the sports bra was. tantamount to introducing women in. practice into sports. It's pretty huge. Yeah, it is. And the history of the bra. also incorporates. um fashion. Um it incorporates societal. norms and how they changed. So did the. bra. >> Uh how women changed over the years and. uh and their own rights over their own. comfort and their own fashion, >> right? >> Um taking that back. Um and it it really.

kind of everything in between. The bra. is a very complicated un garment and. undergarment. It is it is very. complicated. Um what I was heartened to. see though is that today apparently and. for the last several years it's been. [clears throat]. all about comfort and realness and. finding like a bra that fits. And. apparently, I was very surprised to to. find this, that that has not been the. norm. That especially [clears throat] in. America at least,

>> bra makers have made like x number of. sizes and if your breasts didn't happen. to fit that bra, >> that was on you. There's something wrong. with your body because these are the. standard sizes and this is what we're. selling. And so women have for a very. long time had a lot of women have had. bras that just do not fit them because. they just can't find them in America. And that's kind of led to this. revolution in bra making and and also. bra sizing that has um allowed for women.

to have much better much more. comfortable fits uh with bras and I'm. just glad for that. [clears throat]. >> Yeah, me too. Uh the average American. woman supposedly owns six bras. >> Okay. Um, there are officially there are. 20 different styles of bras that you can. buy. And there's this great quote here. Uh, it's from a from a book called. Uplift Colon, the bra in America by Jane. Frell Beck and Colleen Gal. And this.

sort of really pinpoints the um what. you're trying to do with a bra and why. it's so tough to get a great fit and one. that really works for everybody. Uh. brasseries. Oh, wait. [laughter]. Brazers must do more than fit a. multitude of bodies. They must. accommodate the same body as it changes. through the monthly cycle and the life. cycle. They must provide for movement of. the torso and arms in many directions. without chafing or binding, without. slipping out of position. And as if that.

were not enough, uh, brazers must retain. their own structure throughout multiple. wearings and launderings, must not araid. in contact with clothing, must remain, as a rule, inconspicuous beneath the. outer clothing while harmonizing with. the desired silhouette, and must be. priced to sell to many customers. It's. no wonder that hundreds of attempts have. been made to design the ideal breast. supporter over the past 140 years. >> Yeah, >> that says it all. >> It really does. It is a lot more.

complicated than say boxer shorts. >> Yeah, those are easy. >> So, um there's also a lot of money to be. made in it. Um just I saw just the. sports bra industry alone is worth like. 7 billion dollars a year. There's a lot. of money made from bras. And so, as a. result, about 600 million of them are. made every year. Um there's about 26,000. different bra patterns in existence. When you said 20 different styles, that's like racer back or demi cup, that.

like large category of bra. As far as. like different patterns and types of. bras, there's tens of thousands of them. Um Oh, sure. >> And each one has a lot of different. moving parts. I saw 40 different parts. from straps, clasps, underwire, all that. stuff. um and that it takes months and. months of dozens of people working. together to to create a new bra. It's. not just like a new thing. So, there's a. lot of thought and time and effort and.

money going into bra production. And. then from what I've seen, there's. virtually an equal amount of time and. effort and thought going into bra. purchasing, too. From what I'm seeing, it's like not the easiest thing in the. world to buy a bra if you want the bra. to be one that is your new favorite. >> Yeah. Did you uh did you have any. flashbacks of young Josh while you were. researching this of like Sears catalog. type of stuff? >> Sure. Practicing [laughter].

practicing unhooking bras by wearing. them myself. >> or simply, you know, the 80s was a. generally more uh naive moment in time. before the internet like. >> Oh, yeah. See seeing a lady in a bra. leaning against a tree was a pretty big. deal. >> Yes, it really. Yeah. Well, should we. should we take a break and then dive. into the history? >> Yeah, let's let's I think it's a good. idea. >> Okay, we'll be right back with the. history of the brasserie right after. this.

[music]. >> [music]. >> Well, now when you're on the road. driving in your truck, why not learn a. thing or two from Josh and Chuck? It's. [music] stuff you should know. >> You should know. >> All right.

>> Okay. So, as everybody knows, there was. a uh battle between Ottovon Titling and. Phipe Brazier over who invented the bra. And as um uh the great B Midler. instructed all of us, we know who won. that battle because we all you wear a. breazier, not a tizzling. >> Was that a B Midler bit? >> It was from Beaches. >> Oh, I saw that in the 80s when it came. out and not since then. I don't think I've seen it since the 80s.

either, but I guess stuck with you. >> That little part really really stuck. with me. Yeah. >> So, the real first patent for the bra. was filed in 1863. >> Mhm. >> Um, Brazier, the the word it wasn't. coined till the 20th century, but that. wasn't the first bra. Um, Dave sent us. even a photo with this research, which. is pretty great, of a Sicilian mosaic. called Bikini Girls. Mhm. And if you. look up bikini girls, well, you're going. to get a lot of results, but if you look.

up Sicilian mosaic bikini girls, you. will see a mosaic from about uh 400 to. 300 B.CE that shows these young athletic. women uh wearing bikinis, clearly. wearing a what looks like a bra or. bikini top. >> But it's basically exactly what pro. beach volleyball players wear today. Like no joke, it looks exactly like it, >> but strapless, >> right? Yeah. I think a lot of them wear. strapless stuff, too. And also very. short shorts. Like even with a butterfly.

cut, if you look closely, they have a. like a that cuta on the side. Um I mean. like they look exactly like pro. volleyball players. And this is 2400. years ago. So, it seems like they were. wearing what's called an uh epidemi or. strophium depending on whether you speak. the Greek or the Latin, but it's. basically like um like a cloth wrapped. around and then knotted in front to. provide support during athletics.

>> That's right. >> Boom. >> So, medieval times come along. There. were European physicians who were. writing about something called breast. bags. Uh, and there was a medical text. from 1300. The royal surgeon in France, uh, Henri de Mondville said, "Some women. insert two bags in their dresses, >> adjusted to the breasts fitting tight, and they put them into them every. morning and fasten them when possible.

with a matching band, >> not a marching band.". >> No, that's uh that's sort of a bra, a. built-in bra. >> Sure. Or breast bag. So right. So. >> don't say that ever again. [laughter]. >> Okay, agreed. So that's from 1300, right? >> And then you would think, okay, well the. things kind of started hard and fast. from that point on. And as far as. history's concerned, no. Like about a. hundred years later, the the like all.

bra technology was abandoned in favor of. the corset. And that's what we thought. for a very long time until there was a. discovery in 2008, but it wasn't. publicized until I think 2012 or 15 that. an archaeologist from the University of. Ensrook, Betrix Nes, um. I guarantee that's how her name is. spelled or said. She was uh excavating. an Austrian castle, Langberg Castle, and. she found four medieval bras that were.

600 to 700 years old, made of linen. And. do you remember when this like this was. news? This made the rounds. >> I do. >> When you looked at this this garment, you're like, "That is a bra." Like it. doesn't matter what context you have. It. doesn't matter. You just show somebody a. picture of this without any prep or. anything like that and say, "What is. this?" They would say, "Well, that's a. bra." You'd say, "That's right. It's a. 700-year-old bra that we didn't know. existed." like that whole design, we had. no idea that it existed because we.

thought everything had gone just. basically from I'm sorry to say this one. more time, breast bags to corsets and. that that there was no transition, but. in fact there was a transition to the. modern bra that was abandoned in favor. of the corset. Um quite unfortunately. really. >> Yeah. And there was even they even found. a picture there of a 13-year-old boy. with a bra on his head saying he was. Mickey Mouse. >> That's right. >> So that was proof. [laughter]. So, we covered the corset, like you. said, in our full length episode, so you.

can go listen to that. But, um, very. briefly, corset, uh, the word means, uh, corpus in Latin for body. And, uh, women. would wear these corsets that were, um, they had wood or bone later on that had. steel. >> And it would basically shape their. torso. It would cinch that waist in, and. it would flatten their breast. And they. were very restrictive. They were very. painful. And they did actual real damage. to their bodies at times. >> Oh yeah. Like they had trouble.

digesting, had trouble breathing. Um you. would remember you could train your. waist to be to stay that small. We. talked a lot about this in the corset. episode, but but the the big problem. with corsets, aside from all that, is. that they supported the breast from the. bottom up. >> Yes. >> And the thing that really differentiated. bras from everything else up to that. point was that they went the other way. They use the they harness the power of. the shoulder. Yeah. >> To hold the breasts up from beneath. Not.

push them up, but hold them, suspend. them. >> Um almost like a pair of breast bags. hanging down over your shoulder. >> There you go again. >> I can't help myself now. I've been told. not to do [laughter] something. These are the great episodes where I. just sometimes like to sit back and. watch you dig into a a big giant hole. >> turn into a 13-year-old boy with the. Sears catalog. [gasps]. >> So, this was going on. The corsets were. terrible. Women hated them. And by the.

mid-9th century, like you said, they. said, "You got these strong shoulders. Why don't we use those?" [snorts] Uh, >> that's right. Um, and the first modern. bra patent was filed in 1863 by a guy. named uh Lumen Chapman. >> And he was from or he was living at. least in Camden, New Jersey. And he had. this very first over-the-shoulder. designed. uh and it was tightened in the back like. a corset, but it was softer. It was made. of stretchy fabric and it had these.

cups. Uh they were called breast puffs. in the in the patent uh for the extra. support and comfort. I think. >> that is radically better than breast. bags. >> You said it again. >> So, Lumen Chapman, strangely enough, his. design did not take off, although he. does have the first patent. Um, but a. woman named Herman Kadol, it's great. name. She created something um that was. basically like a corset, but it was a. corset cut in two, and [snorts] the top.

half very strongly resembled a modern. bra. and she called it the Lebianetra or. well-being. Um, and her stuff still. didn't quite take off, I think, because. she was married to the corset still or. the the general corset design, which. made sense because at the time up until. the early 20th century, if you didn't. wear a corset, you were basically. advertising that you were you had loose. morals. So, the corset was just it. whether you hated corsets with all of. your your might and a lot of women did,

you still had to wear them just to be. socially acceptable. So, it would take, as far as legend goes, uh a very um. freespirited, very wealthy socialite. named Mary Phelps Jacobs to basically. say, "Nuts to that. I'm tired of these. corsets. They're they're those whale. bone stays are protruding through this. kind of sheer dress that I want to wear. to this dance. let me try something. else. And she apparently instructed one.

of her maids, because again she was a. wealthy socialite, to um to make what we. would consider the first modern bra out. of some silk handkerchiefs and ribbon. >> Yeah. She was only 19. Um we should. point out she moved to Paris later on. and changed her name to uh is it Caressa. Crosby? >> I think so. >> Or Caress. I'm not sure if you pronounce. that last e. >> I'm not sure either. >> Uh but that was her her final name. So. Crosby had this idea when she was 19 and. it was before a uh an event that she was.

going to a debutant ball. >> and she called it the backless brazier. and people at the party loved it. I. imagine women uh especially loved it and. she got a patent for this thing in 1914. and very unwisely sold the idea for a. mere 1,500 bucks to Warner Brothers. Corset Company. >> Yeah. who turned around in the next 30. years made 10,000 times that amount from. that patent. >> Oh yeah. >> So it's a about 38 grand that she was.

paid today for the patent and they made. about $225 million in today's money off. of it. >> But she was rich anyway, right? >> In bet. Yeah, she was rich anyway and. she was a super interesting person from. what I saw. She basically any um famous. author today that was writing in the 20s. she was like real good friends with and. she herself wrote too. I think she had a. publishing house called Black Sun. Um. but she wrote for a while pornography on.

commission from a Oklahoma oil man who. couldn't get enough of her stuff. [laughter]. >> Like another sexy story. >> That was one of the many things that she. she did in her life. She wrote. pornography. >> Amazing. >> Yeah. >> So, World War I turns out to be a good. thing uh if you're a woman because steel. is in short supply. Uh the US joins the. war and says, "You know what? We got to. have all the steel uh in this country go. toward war munitions and battleships and.

stuff." And American women said, "Oh, great. Cuz you know what has steel? My. corset. Let's get rid of it and ditch. these things for good.". >> And elastic fabric started coming into. the market. uh latex came into the. market and so all of a sudden American. women could finally get rid of the. corset uh in favor of this new uh this. new invention called the the breazier. and of course we don't want you to be. too comfortable ladies you might want to. at least put a girdle on just to keep. everything nice and cinched in.

>> which is basically like uh Hermony. Cadell's um two-piece corset but. whatever patriotism. freed them from that that um social. expectation of having to wear a corset, which is pretty great. But I saw that. the steel that the corsets freed up uh. equaled 28,000 tons, enough to make two. battleships in World War I. >> That's awesome. That's. >> a a lot of corset steel. >> Yeah. >> So, this led to like a complete.

revolution in undergarments for women, right? So in the 20s um the the the one. of the first bras was basically there. was a company called BCH form which. held the breasts down it and back back. and to the left. >> Wait, what was it called? >> Boy form. B O Y form. And from what I.

can tell, they were basically saying. boyish form. >> Okay, that's what I was about to say. They they shortened it by removing the I. and changed it to boyish form. >> like they'll never know, [laughter]. >> right? No one will ever get this. trickery. But it was because of that. flapper style was very much slight and. boyish. But then along came a company in. the late 20s called Maiden Form and they. named themselves Maiden Form to kind of. contradict Boyish form because one of. their big things was, "Hey man, let's.

let's uh not be ashamed of these boobs. and try to hide them. Let's accentuate. these things. And boy, did they ever. >> Yeah. I mean, in the World War II, in. the age of the big Buxom Hollywood. bombshell era, people like Jane Russell, uh, then in the 50s with Marilyn Monroe, and it's all this, you know, sort of. male ideal at the time is is what we're. getting at is the bras sort of followed. suit. Um, but when these women came on. the scene, that's when if you look at TV. shows from back then or advertisements, you see these bras that were very pointy.

and uh I think they even called them. bullet bras or torpedo bras. >> Yeah. And that was sort of all the rage. just because the uh the sort of I mean. Hollywood's always sort of driving. fashion in that way and it certainly did. back then. >> because Twiggy coming along in the '60s. with her very sort of slim androgynous. look um all of a sudden in the 60s bras. were being thrown in the trash can. They're like we don't need bras at all. >> Yeah. And then um there was a guy a.

designer who's an avantgard designer. named Rudy Gernich and he came up with. um the no bra in 1964 which is basically. like what you would consider a bra. today. It's it's meant to just kind of. be there and be supportive but also kind. of fade into the background which. huh. >> like a quiet friend. >> Exactly. Um, but that's like the. antithesis of the torpedo or bullet. brawl, which was would take your eye. clean out if you got too close to it.

But this is you can kind of see like. we've gone from 20s where boy form was. or boy form was all the rage and to the. exact opposite to back to the 20s and. then it kind of swung back toward you. know um a large busty popping out kind. of thing even more than before whereas. because now it's not covered by a. sweater or torpedoes. It was all about. accentuating the boobs upward and to the. left. Um, and then the WonderBraw kind.

of really helped move that along. And. what was really interesting is I. remember when the WonderBraw came out in. America. It was in the '9s. >> But it turns out that in the far off. land of Canada, it had been invented 30. years before. It just took 30 years to. get down to America and become popular. >> That's pretty funny. >> Isn't that weird? >> Yeah, that is totally weird. >> Yeah. >> And Canadians are too nice to insist. like, "By the way, >> we have a better bra up here.".

>> Right. And then now things have swung. back again to where they're like, "Do. you even need a bra?" And a lot of. people are like, "I don't think you do.". It's kind of a personal preference. >> Yeah, it certainly can be, but I also. think there's still very much a stigma. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. It's true. There's just no arguing that right now. >> No. No, I mean, if you go if you're a. woman and you go walssing into a a. conference meeting. >> Mhm. >> at your business and you're and you're.

not wearing a bra, then someone's going. to say something. I guarantee you. >> Exactly. Yes. But I think also even if. you even if somebody didn't say. something or it was okay with everybody. else, from what I can tell, there's a. certain psychological. um security blanket aspect to wearing a. bra. If that's what you've been raised. to do, to wear a bra. >> Oh, for sure. >> And to not do that would take a real. psychological shift in how you feel and. how how secure you feel without it. And.

I was reading about training bras. because I didn't feel like I was enough. of a creep as it is. >> You're [laughter] lying. Oh boy. But. from what I was reading about training. bras, they even if the the girl doesn't. need a bra yet for any real purpose, it. provides like some kind of psychological. thing that they're like, "Okay, I'm. keeping up with my peers who actually do. need a bra or I'm going to like the. eighth grade dance or probably say sixth.

grade dance or something and I want to. wear this dress, but it's going to look. weird if I'm not wearing a bra. So, I. need a bra." So, so and I think that. kind of psychology continues on well. into adulthood, too. So, that it would. be weird or feel weird to not wear a bra. if that's what you've done your whole. life. >> Yeah. And I think it also has to do with. your comfort level with your uh with. your breast size. >> Sure. Um, you know, not to get too. personal, but like if I had a dime for.

every time Emily was like, "You got to. go get the the delivery food at the door. cuz I'm not wearing a bra.". >> Sure. >> Um, and you know, Emily has bigger. boobs. So, there I said it. [laughter]. She might be more comfortable if she had. smaller breasts. Um, but I don't know. I'm going to go home and ask her, though. >> Okay. I feel like we should um sit in. silence for five minutes. [laughter]. So, you mentioned Maiden Form. Uh, we.

we'll get to this later, but they were. um they were founded in 1929 by William. and Ida Rosenthal, >> who invented or introduced at least the. letterbased cup sizing system. >> Yeah. >> But, um, we'll get to that weird bit of, uh, voodoo in a minute because I still. have no idea what's going on there. But. in uh actually it wasn't in a year. From. 1949 to 1963 they had a very very. successful print ad campaign called I.

Dream uh which you can go look up. online. And these ads which were very. racy at the time of course were women. doing things uh topless with just their. bra on. They would have on like a. regular uh skirt that you would wear in. that era but no top, >> no blouse. And then they were dreaming. Uh, one lady was dreaming of being a. firefighter and she was fighting a fire. with with no shirt on. Or, um, I dreamed. I went back to school in my maiden form. bra and it's a woman uh in her bra at a.

grammar school desk. >> Or I dreamed I won the election in my. maiden form bra. >> Man, that's face palm. >> She's taking the stage on election. night. And beyond these being and old. advertisements are all funny and awful. in every way, but beyond this being. funny and awful, it it truly is kind of. gross that what they're showing are. things that are dreams for these women, like having a regular job and things. that they may not have been allowed to. do at the time.

>> Yeah. So, but in at the time, like yes, they were trying to sell their bras and. yes, the there was like a certain amount. of sex appeal to the whole campaign, but. in in their defense, like this was a. very like progressive liberating ad. campaign. It was conceived by three. women. on one hand, and also it's not like they. were like, "Haha, you couldn't possibly. hold public office because you're a. woman." It was like like it was showing. that women dream of this kind of stuff. that they want to do this kind of thing.

and that at least in their dreams. they're capable of doing this rather. than we can't even talk about that. It's. so preposterous we couldn't even. possibly create an ad campaign. So it. was kind of like progressive in that. sense. It's in retrospect that it's. really cringy, but really what you're. cringing is not like maiden form was. making fun of women for not being able. to to do these things. It's more an. indictment of society for them being. restricted from these things at the. time. >> Yeah, that's this is one of these.

definitely where you could come at it. from a lot of angles. >> Sure. >> And have opinions about it. Um but we. should read they had a contest in 1955. uh with the public about new dream. ideas. >> And the winner from 1957 and Dave, God. bless you for finding this was I dreamed. I danced the hornpipe with Sinbad the. sailor. >> [gasps]. >> Don't even know what that means. >> That's another thing you can approach. from a bunch of different angles. [laughter]. >> I think we should approach a message. break and then we'll talk about uh the.

the wacky world of bra sizing right. after this. [music]. >> [music]. >> Well, now when you're on the road. driving in your truck, why not learn a. thing or two from Josh and Chuck?

[music]. It's stuff you should know. >> Stuff you should know. >> All right. All right, Chuck. So, one thing that. I've read is that American bras don't. fit. Um, and that there's a reason for. that. Something like there's a statistic. that 80% of women, uh, American women at. least, are wearing bras that don't fit. And supposedly that's kind of made up. and based on anecdotal evidence, but. it's been bandied about for so long that.

people take it as gospel. But regardless. of whatever the statistic may or may not. be, American bras are known for not. fitting. And it's because American bra. manufacturers have basically said, "We've created this standard measuring. scale. >> and it just is economically efficient. for us to massroduce, you know, this. size to this size. And if you happen to. fall outside of that size, you're so and. it's your fault. there's something wrong.

with your body for not adhering to the. standard. norm, body size norm. This is largely. becoming a relic of the past, but it's. still, from what I can tell, very much. present when you go bra shopping. >> Yeah. And, you know, I've I've heard. this complaint from Emily over the years. and uh and a lot of women that Yeah, it's tough to find a bra that really. fits well and feels good and does. everything it's supposed to do. Uh then. that's why when you find one, you know,

you order like six of them. >> Yeah. >> Uh but there are these days, before we. get into the sizing, um that is changing. some now with these more bespoke. companies um that have more custom. custommade tailored to your size kind of. things. And I wonder why it took that. long for someone to think outside the. box. >> and challenge challenge big breazier and. say, "Hey, you're doing it wrong. I bet. there's a lot of money to be made from. bespoke breazeers.

>> Yeah, from what I understand there is. And although it's just now happening in. the US, apparently it happened, I. believe, back in the 90s in the UK with. um a movement called bra fitting, one. word, where it's basically like, look, two measurements is not enough to to. create a perfect bra. You need a bunch. of different measurements under. different conditions. You need to take. your shirt and bra all the way off. we. need to get in there and um but when. we're done, you're going to have a. well-fitting bra. And it's just now.

catching on in the United States. And. the what's surprising is that, you know, it's just now catching on. But this this. technique and the sizing standard that. we use here in the United States goes. back to the the I think the 20s, if not. the 30s. >> Yeah. Yeah. 1929 is when they founded. Maiden Form and introduced this cup. sizing. And [clears throat] I'm not. going to pretend to fully understand. this, >> but I can read. Oh, you got it. >> Yeah. Yeah. You go ahead, though. I want.

to hear your attempt. >> No, no, no. Cuz that when what'll happen. is I'll read and then you'll do it again. in your own words [laughter]. and then this episode is 15 minutes. longer than it should be. >> All right. [laughter]. You got my number and my number happens. to be 34 C. [laughter]. So, the cup system is what it's called. It consists of two measurements and the. difference between them. So the first. measurement is the uh overbust which is.

the circumference of your uh chest ac. all the way around your body across the. nipples. That's your overbust. measurement right? Okay. Now if you'll. also measure right below the breasts all. the way around your body that's your. underbust. And if you subtract those. two, you're going to come up with a. difference in inches or centimeters. depending on where you are in the world. And you can use that I as part of a. handy table to say, "Oh, there's a 3-in. difference. That means that I'm a CC.

cup, right?" Because. >> that's where the lettering comes from, >> right? The difference between your. underbust and your overbust. generates some knowledge about the. volume that your breasts are going to. take up, which is your cup size. Got it. >> It generates It generates knowledge. >> Yeah. Exactly. So that underbust measurement is also. used and that that's the number that. comes before it. So if you're a 34 C. that means your chest is 34 in around at. the rib cage under your u breast. And.

then if you're a C that means that. there's a 3-in difference. That means. that you are 37 in around your chest at. the nipples. And so you'd be a 34 C. and. that those two measurements are. supposedly like. all you need to come up with a fitting. bra, but apparently that's just not. true. >> Yeah, I mean that all makes sense. Um I. think the thing that confused me is the. sister sizing. >> I understand that too. >> thing. Uh so if you have a 36 C and a 34.

C. >> Brazier, that's not the same cup size. because a 34 C is the only true C. >> Yeah. So if if you want to go up a band. size but not the cup size, you buy a 36B. or a 38A. So the volume of the cup size. is relative to the circumference of the. band. >> Yeah. I mean, it's as simple as that. I. think the problem, the breakdown is is. that this sister sizing thing has not. been widely publicized to women and so. that they think like, well, if the band.

is a little tight and I'm a 36 C, then I. need to go up to a 38 C. And that's just. not the case. >> Yeah. In music you want a tight band. In. Brazers you don't. >> Well, supposedly part of that bra. fitting trend that started in the UK is. that um suggests that that a tight band. is the key to a good fitting bra. That. that's where most of your support comes. and that most women opt for a band size. that's a little too loose. But the point.

is is your cup volume does not go up. when you go up a band size. It doesn't. have to. So that means that a 34 C, if. you go down in band size, you would go. up in cup size and your cup size would. stay the same. So a 34 C is the same as. a 32D. And then the other way, a 34 C is. the same as a 36B. And once you. understand the sister sizing thing, then. you can actually use this two. measurement standard to find a bra that. actually fits better.

>> That's right. And if you're wondering. how this all works, it works with uh. with bra fitting models. There are women. that uh get paid money to go in and get. fit for thousands and thousands of bras. and to give feedback. >> And this all start well, it didn't. completely start there, but in the. 1970s, >> there was a singer named Dorothy uh. Gallagghan from New York answered an ad. for a bra faming model and they said, "You know what? I know this sounds.

sexist and we probably even though it's. the 70s shouldn't be saying this in an. office, but you have the perfect 34BS. and that's the standard size which we're. designing our bras on. >> So for almost 20 years, Dorothy. Gallagghan was the model in New York in. the lingerie district that would work. 10, 11, 12 hour days trying on thousands. and thousands of bras and giving her. feedback so they could go back to the. sewing machine and redo it. Yeah, because that's the other part of the.

problem with bras that don't necessarily. fit. In addition to not making larger. sizes and cup volumes and smaller sizes. and cup volumes, like they're based. around one woman's pair of breasts and. her breasts became the standard for the. bra industry in the 20th century. So. that if you have if you could create a. bra that fit Dorothy Gallagan correctly. as a 34B, you could use that to. basically grow out from either way. That's right. So, that's a that's a real. problem for women who have different.

shapes and sizes. And it's really sad to. me to think that they were told for. decades that, you know, if your bra. doesn't fit, it's something something's. wrong with your body. Not that. >> you must have quit. >> Exactly. [laughter]. >> Well, here's the thing, too. It's not. just breast size. It's that, you know, how how big your back is and how like. the bra it it holds the breast. the cups. do, but you know, it has to do with your. shoulders and your back and your armpits. and everything else. Like, there's so.

many nuances to everybody's body, men. and women, that. >> I mean, I I think until recently they. were trying to do the best they could, but it was pretty narrow uh the options. that women had. >> Yeah, I get the impression that they. were not trying to do the best that they. could, that they basically said, "When. we release a new bra, it comes in these. sizes." well doing the best they could. for a huge industry that had to satisfy, >> you know, tens of millions of different. kind of bodies. Like they they were kind. of hamstrung. You you can't have 450 bra.

sizes and manufacture on that scale. >> Yeah. [snorts] You can't mass. manufacture. But I think that's what's. being proven like you're saying by this. new bespoke revolution and that you just. you can't get that big. Although now you. can get that big because it's bespoke. and because you can say, "Hey, uh, download our app and take these. measurements using your phone and upload. it and then we'll just custom make some. bras for you." And I also read that um, Poland. >> uh, makes really really good fitting. bras as well. I read a I think it was a.

New York Times article about and the. author traveled to Poland to verify this. herself and she said she didn't find the. perfect bra, but she came away with like. four or five bras that were awfully. close, way closer than she'd ever had. before. >> It's funny after all these years, I. still remember to not put a bra in a. dryer because of uh the movie Headvig in. the Angry Inch. >> I don't remember that part. No, I never. saw it. That's why I don't remember that. part. >> It's great. uh John Cameron Mitchell who.

also friend of Movie Crush. He's a. friend of Nolles. >> He played Headvig and you know created. the character and directed the film. >> But uh there's a scene where he's uh. he's screaming do not put a bra in a. dryer. It warps. [laughter]. >> And I guess that's true because ever. since then I've been like I know if I'm. doing laundry I should not put a bra in. a dryer. >> It does do some weird things to it. Although you can also put it in a. laundry bag and I think that keeps it. from like wrapping around stuff which.

makes it a lot it lasts longer. You can. put it in a dryer. >> Oh, right. Yeah. Like when a bra like. collects everything else in its wake. >> Exactly. >> Yeah. >> So, um I don't think we can not talk. about Victoria's Secret. >> Man, if I had a dime for every time you. said that to me. Or as many dum dum guys. call it, Victoria Secrets. Yeah, you. dummies. So, Victoria's Secret actually. started out a husband and wife um.

founded it in the 70s in the San. Francisco area because the husband had. gone to like the department store to buy. lingerie for his wife and was treated. like a a scale for it. Right. >> Even in San Francisco in the 70s, >> I guess so. >> All right. >> Department stores have always been a. certain way, no matter where you are, [laughter] I think. >> Right. So he said, "Well, we need to. create like a lingerie store that's made. for men to go buy for women." And that's. what they created was Victoria's Secret. And um it was semisuccessful. And then.

they sold to a guy named uh Leslie. Wexman, I believe it was Wexman, who had. founded the limited. And um he turned he. took it, I think he bought it for a. million dollars and within two decades. it was worth $2 billion. And um the uh. guy who founded it with his wife, they. ended up getting divorced and he he um. died broke and jumped from the Golden. Gate Bridge sadly enough. >> Oh wow. >> But Victoria's Secret dominated.

the um the bra industry in the United. States for many many decades until very. recently when it was overthrown by women. who said enough. >> Yeah. Well, it's funny. You know, Roy. Raymond said, "You know what we need is. a store where men can go in and buy sexy. lingerie for their wives." And what he. failed to hear was the sound of tens of. millions of women across the country. saying, "No, you don't." Right. [laughter] Well, that's what that's what. um Leslie, I think it's Wexman, that's.

what he figured out was that this this. thing was a good idea, but they had. missed the mark and that they were. marketing toward men and they were. completely isolating women cuz he said. like these Victoria Secret stores were. lit with like, you know, weird kind of. reddish lighting and there were velvet. couches and oriental rugs and he said it. wasn't. >> Well, I've walked by them in the mall. very slowly. >> This was like in the in the early 70s. and or late '7s and early 80s. Yeah, that's what I'm talking. >> Okay. All right. So, he said, man, I. would have loved to have seen this. He. said they weren't they were Victorian,

not like a Victorian um uh foyer. They. were like a Victorian brothel, basically. And it was like just chasing. women away, attracting men, but women. buy, you know, underwear for themselves. way more than their husbands do. And so, he kind of revamped it a little bit and. turned it into something that women felt. comfortable and actually wanted to go. into. >> Yeah. It's interesting. Uh according to. that book Uplift that we mentioned. earlier uh despite Victoria's Secret and. its history uh women have really been.

key to the development of bras in the. United States. Uh I think over 1,200 US. patents have been awarded for uh bras. between 1863 and 1969 and half of those. have been held by women. And in the. industry uh they have always held pretty. important uh positions and been well. regarded uh designers and uh managers um. specialists, merchandising um. promotional product managers. It it is.

one industry where it seems that has not. been here's a product for women run. entirely by men. >> Right. And rightfully so, I would say. >> Yeah. Absolutely. So, um, there is also. a very famous legend as far as bras go, which is the burning of bras at a 1968. demonstration. >> Yeah, I apparently. Uhhuh. >> No, it's a myth. There was a there was. in fact a demonstration outside of Miss. America pageant in Atlantic City in. 1968. It was the brainchild of Carol.

Hannish, um, who helped basically at. this moment give birth to second-wave. feminism. And they actually had a trash. can that said freedom trash can and. women threw stuff into it that they. considered like shackles of the. patriarchy like false eyelashes, bras, lingerie, that kind of stuff. But there. was no burning. That came from a a. reporter who suggested that they burn it. as a nod to the burning of draft cards,

but no one actually burned this stuff. But it became kind of uh set in stone as. as true, even though it really wasn't. >> That's right. Big fat lie. >> And then lastly, Chuck, I've got one. extra thing. You ready? >> Ready. >> Do you have anything else? >> I don't. >> Do you need to wear a bra? It's a. long-standing question. And apparently. the answer is no. At least as far as a. study in France, a 15-year study of 300.

women. I think they were aged 18 to 35. And this study found that women who did. not wear bras developed more muscle. muscle tissue in their breasts. ostensibly to provide support that the. the bra wasn't there to provide. And. that by proxy, if you did wear a bra, your muscles or the muscles in your. breasts were less prone to develop and. thus you would have um more likely to. have breasts that sag or pendular.

breasts than you would have if you. didn't wear a bra. Kind of like you're. making your breast sink or swim by not. wearing a bra. So, it's just one study, but it is pretty pretty um surprising. that they found basically the opposite. of conventional wisdom because most. people say, "Oh, if you don't wear a. bra, your breasts will get saggy." And. that's apparently not true. >> Interesting. >> And I also ran across a weird question. on Google. You know, it has like. suggested searches. What happens if we squeeze breast?

>> Uh, I don't know. >> I didn't even bother to look. Just the. question itself was good enough. [laughter]. >> Oh man. >> You got anything else? >> I got nothing else. >> What about the bro or the man's ear? >> Oh yeah. Can't forget the bro. >> Uh well since we said bro, it's time for. listener mail, everybody. >> Uh I'm going to call this more on beday. Hey guys, love the show. Thanks for all.

you do. It's especially meaningful in. these crazy times. I'm currently hanging. out in northern Japan on a trip that. changed from a between job snowboarding. sbatical in December to well I guess I. live here for now. So you're buy that's. not a bad place to be I would imagine. So good for you Adam. Uh I'm sure you. guys get a t got a ton of similar emails. to this but in the beday episode you. mentioned a type of toilet with a sink. sprayer attachment nearby. In my. experience, this is a super common thing. in households [music] and many lower. budget hotel accommodations in the.

Philippines and other Southeast Asian. countries. It is awesome and commonly. referred to as the bum gun. >> by foreign travelers and expats. I don't. know the etmology of bum gun. Uh so I'm. not sure if that term has been adopted. domestically in various bum gun. enthusiast countries, [snorts] but like. one ring or Spidey's abilities, [music]. it has great power and must be wielded. carefully. So, bum gun wisely, my. friends. That is from Adam. >> Thanks a lot, Adam. Uh, and best of luck.

to you in your new home. Uh, hang tight, buddy. Things will pass [music]. eventually. Uh, if you want to get in. touch with us like Adam did and talk. about bum guns or bras or what have you, you can email, send us an email to stuff. podcast at iheartradio.com. >> Stuff You Should Know is a production of. iHeart Radio. For [music] more podcasts, iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio. app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you. listen to your favorite shows. [music].