Selects: History's Greatest Traitors | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW

hello everybody it's Josh and for this. week's select I've chosen our 2013. episode on History's Greatest traitors. turns out history is Rife with. treacherous people and if there's any. lesson to learn from this episode it's. be careful who you cross because once. your name is associated with treachery. it turns out that that stays pretty. sticky it's tough to get rid of. enjoy welcome to stuff you should know a. production of iHeart.

[Music]. radio hey and welcome to the podcast I'm. Josh Clark there's Charles W Chuck. Bryant um so Chuck yeah I have a story. for you all right let's hear it come. back with me Wayback. machine sure. okay.

[Music]. couple hours ago yeah so here we are. it's December 22nd 1972 oh yeah. something really bad is about to happen. sit down in front of this TV okay our. good friend and hero Peter Brady is. trying out for the school play yeah it's. a story of the American Revolution I. remember that he tries out for George. Washington but he doesn't get it and in. fact the name of this episode that we're. sitting here watching on this ni Brown.

and orange shag carpeting MH is called. everybody can't be George Washington. Peter doesn't get the part of George. Washington but he does get another very. important part the part of Benedict. Arnold o well at first he's like hey. it's a part it's a speaking part I'm. pretty happy I'm going to do my best I. was a tree in my last six plays right. this is a huge step up for him um until. his classmates point out that Benedict. Arnold was a traitor and since Peter's. playing a traitor yeah he must be some.

sort of Traitor too so basically the. whole school turns on him because he's. playing Benedict Arnold which is really. kind of silly it is very silly and of. course Peter tries to get out of uh the. the play again and again yeah um. affecting laryngitis pretending he has a. limp um all of this stuff for saying he. forgets his lines yeah I think I. remember that and finally is successful. and then his dad points out that he has. turned into a traitor now Peter against.

the whole CL the whole cast don't tell. me he had a lesson for him and he sat. him down and had a talking to it was a. good one yeah it was a good one um and. so Peter goes in and plays Benedict. darnold and knocks it out of the park. and learned a lesson in the process but. the the the whole premise of this. episode of Brady Bunch is that Peter was. suffering from a smear campaign started. 200 years before by George Washington. and it was so successful that even today. you can get a rise out of Somebody by.

calling them Benedict Arnold if they've. done something traitorous yeah and we've. learned there are quite a few uh. synonyms with traiter that were in fact. notorious traitors like if you call. someone a Judas right or uh a Benedict. Arnold or or what a quizzing yeah that's. might be popular in some parts of the. world but right but this is the USA sure. so we call people Benedict Arnolds. that's right um well let's talk about. this let's talk about Benedict Arnold to. start okay well you know first of all we. should point out that this is a uh.

curated show yeah from our buddy Sam. Teagarden this is the Summer of Sam then. yeah we're continuing into our second. Summer of Sam and for those of you that. don't know uh Sam is a local fan of ours. Y and uh a good kid and he's he's. actually on our TV show he was in an. episode The Make It Rain episode yeah is. one of our softball teammates Y and uh. Sam's a good guy and he sends in great. ideas so we like to highlight them when. we uh do them yeah yeah all right so.

summer Sam hey Sam hope you're doing. well buddy. um talking about Benedict Arnold and why. there was such a smear campaign against. him and it turns out rightfully so. although possibly I think a lot of uh. Arnold's side of the story has been lost. to history well yeah and coincidentally. or not coincidentally some of these. traders that we're going to mention. today history is born out that they may. not have been traditor yeah but Benedict. Arnold definitely was no he was a. documented traitor yeah as as traitorous.

and treasonous as you can get as as far. as the in the context of War yeah so uh. early on in life things started out. pretty well he was born into some wealth. um but his family um specifically his. father squandered their Fortune with. some bad business dealings apparently he. was quite a drinker oh he turned into. the town drunk yeah well that'll do it. they lost their family estate because of. them they lost their dough uh three of. his sisters or sorry siblings died from. yellow fever he had to drop out of.

school yeah he became an apothecary yeah. so things weren't like Rosie for the guy. although he did quite well later on in. the military well he did quite well even. before that as a merchant and actually. by the age of 22 was able to buy back. his family's estate oh really which he. then turned around and sold it a profit. well good for him so I guess he wasn't. the sentimental type flip this estate. yeah I think it wasn't that he wanted. his his family's estate back he just. didn't want to lose out on the potential. profit from it I yes yeah and he seemed.

like he may have been like uh add before. there was add Yeah Yeah from the sounds. of reading his thing I was just like man. he this kid had add he was like always. in trouble he's getting kicked out of. school but it was just cuz he was like. busy yeah he wasn't like a bad kid it. seemed like but he was just always had. something going on he finally I guess. found his Niche and he did become quite. a businessman um and fabulously wealthy. but he wasn't wealthy enough in his. opinion and in fact joined the Sons of.

Liberty revolutionary group in New. England um because he was mad that his. riches were being taxed by England yeah. he liked the dough he did and uh he did. have a pretty remarkable military career. and uh Jefferson and and Washington were. big supporters of him for a while yeah. but he also suffered um apparently there. are a lot of petty jealousies that they. don't talk about among the founding. fathers in the second and third echelon. of all these guys um and apparently.

Benedict darn frequently suffered um yes. he slided a lot a lot yeah he missed out. on honors and stuff like that and he. doesn't seem like the type to let things. go nor was he the type to air his his. feelings so he just kind of sat there. and stewed right yeah I saw most of the. times he was slighted he like fought. really hard to get either reassigned or. reappointed to the position he was going. for and so you're right he couldn't let. it go he needed therapy but instead he.

was appointed to run uh West Point not. the military academy the fort right yeah. this is pretty I guess they probably. named it after that though didn't they I. think it turned into the military. academy okay but I think this was before. it was an academy yeah it was definitely. yeah um and so he you know went Benedict. Arnold on everyone and little did he. know he was being a Benedict Arnold but. he sold secrets to uh to the British um. like plans War Secrets uh Armament. locations.

uh for about 3 million bucks I think it. was 10,000 at the time yeah so he. um he the reason he did this ostensibly. was a because he'd been slided yeah but. also and this is what it's been lost to. history is that he he came to believe. that the revolution had lost steam that. the people running the show didn't. really know what they were doing and. probably wouldn't form a very good. postrevolutionary government if. successful so did he genuinely think the. Brits were were going to do a better job.

supposedly that's what historians say. but again he didn't really he he may. have been the type to just kind of say. that's what he was right thinking too. and that's what what somebody wrote down. at some point but he ultimately said. this the colonies are better back in the. hands of England again gotcha so not. only am I going to try to sell the the. the map to West Point I'm going to join. the British army which he did and led at. least two raids against American. revolutionary forces so he really.

switched sides oh yeah yeah in uh in. 1780 I can't believe whoever wrote this. article put that uh when the plot was. intercepted he went from zero hero to. zero I know I know I was all of a sudden. I was in like an Us magazine or. something or like a Springer. Show but that's what happened uh he was. convicted of treason and um his name was. erased from the the record books and. England promised him they're like hey if. you effect over here we're going to give.

you land in Canada yeah we're not going. to give you land here we'll give you. land in Canada some money and we'll. promise your family pensions and you're. going to be a British provincial. Brigadier General and uh he's like that. sounds pretty great but um as it turned. out he didn't get that many great. assignments in the military in in. England he was even sort of I don't. think anyone likes a traiter no that's. even in England they were like yeah that. comes up again and again like even the. side that you're tra.

or whatever um they yeah they're like. you're a traitor well I think it's cuz. basically you're just a big liar yeah. but you're treacherous yeah and so. people are like how I'm not going to. trust you thanks for doing that but can. you go live in Canada but it does pop up. again and again anybody who's ever. turned traitor and expected some sort of. Glory has been sorely disappointed yeah. so in England he was sort of poo pooed. then he moved to Canada they didn't like. him yeah and then he moved back to. England and died there without ever like. making a whole lot of money or getting. any important military action right so.

sort of a sad ending it really is and. today if you go to West Point there's I. guess 12 plaques of some of like the. head revolutionary generals oh yeah and. his name is literally wiped from the. record it has the year of his birth and. um I think his the town of his birth but. his name is not on the plaque any longer. just. says it's smeared or there's a Sharpie. through it. right um all right so that's Benedict.

Arnold let's go a little further back. okay let's go way back okay I'm talking. like maybe. 44. BCE cassus and Brutus yeah uh Marcus. Junius Brutus the younger I'm glad you. looked that up yeah I was I'm sure he. had a fuller name yeah Brutus it's like. it's like a whole country of share or.

something uh and here's the thing with. these guys they were definitely Traders. as well but they're also singled out. clearly they killed Caesar we all know. in the IDS of March which Caesar the. senator and dfl yeah dictator for life. which self-. declared um but there were like 60 dudes. that took part in this yeah and see. Caesar was self- declared Caesar fought. a Civil War One informed to trium. with the people that he vanquished yeah.

so he wasn't entirely dictatorial. although as like popular opinion started. to swell around him he's like maybe I. will just be leader for life let's let's. save the all those voting days and I'll. just be leader for the rest of the time. I'm alive and cassus and uh Brutus had. both fought against Caesar in the Civil. War yeah and despite that Caesar um. pardoned both of them and gave them.

positions of power in his new government. and brand new knives and they. commemorate the and they said still not. enough well casassus especially. apparently he was very envious of Caesar. and his power he was the Rabel Rouser. and that that was ultimately his motive. although he he used the concept of the. Republic of Rome turning into a. dictatorship to lead the um the. assassination against Caesar yeah and. even cooked up evidence and like letters. of support to show Brutus cuz was much. friendlier with Caesar they were buds.

right and uh but he was swayed by cus. and said you know what this is going to. be good for our country or our kingdom. or whatever they were calling it at the. time and um took part but they weren't. like the the lead I mean maybe they. cooked it up but they weren't the. initial aggressors um I thought Brutus. was the first one to stab caesar no this. dude uh tius simber came out and like. pulled down his tunic first of all did.

he really yeah I guess he they said. pulled it down but I don't know what. that means if he I imagined he was. pulling it like a hockey jersey either. pantsed him or no tunic's like a shirt. thing so I thought he pulled it over his. head like a hockey player might in a. fight it's like reverse pantsed it. reverse pantsed him and Caesar was like. you know what is this. violence going on and then another dude. um Casa he came at him with a knife M. and Caesar blocked him away and uh. defended himself and was like basically.

what's going on here and then that's. when everyone like 60 guys descended. upon Him wow among you know Brutus might. have been the lead of of that pack. though yeah okay okay and they stabbed. the crap out of him so I knew I thought. Brutus was the first one to stab him I. knew that some other guy was the first. one to strike him and it may have been. the guy who reverse panted him simber. yeah Yi and I were at Pompei we actually. walked around Pompei and there's a table. there and it belonged to that guy oh. really and I guess somebody in Pompei.

like bought the table of the first guy. to strike Caesar and like had it in. their via and it's still there today and. did you eat at it no we stared at it oh. okay we looked at it from like 3 meters. away oh gotcha you have to say meters. because it's in Italy that's. obnoxious um and apparently only one of. the stabs he was stabbed 23 times and. like continued to be stabbed even after. he was on the floor dead M but uh only. one of them was a fatal blow um he was. that like the second stab I think went.

through his heart and the rest were just. you know but before that insult to. injury when Brutus stabbed him yeah. Caesar very famously saidu brute yeah. which literally means and You Brutus or. what the hell Brutus yeah you two and. supposedly he kind of gave up at that. point like it killed a spirit when he. saw Brutus was involved yeah but um I. don't know true supposedly he didn't. want to live in a uh brusless world. World in a world where even Brutus could.

assassinate him so he resigned himself. to dying and hence became a hero it's. very sad was on my. birthday I thought your birthday was is. it the 15th M the 15th too but not of. March that's right uh so oh also too. apparently that was the first autopsy. report oh really first postmortem death. report was made on Caesar God the Greeks. man if that's true I've heard or the. Romans whoops whatever I'm really glad I.

caught that. one. yeah deleted their. email you got anything else want to save. it on uh these two traitors um no oh yes. uh Dante had a special hatred for um. Brutus and Casas and in his Inferno he. says that uh they are being perpetually. eaten by two of Lucifer First's three. mouths wow and the third mouth is.

reserved for the next guy we'll talk. about a little guy named Judas escarate. oh really yeah Satan's thirdd mouth so. Lucifer's three mouths are eating cases. Brutus and. Judas wow all right Judas is one of. these that um recent evidence has. emerged where he may not have been such. a traitor but we'll get into that but. but then that was refuted as. well um everyone obviously knows the.

Judas kiss uh very famously Judas. betrayed Jesus his uh he was one of the. disciples he betrayed Jesus with a kiss. yeah and it was actually a signal to the. guards to come and grab him I guess he. was identifying him yeah apparently the. the Romans didn't know who this Jesus. was at least by sight and Judas went and. said hey you guys want this Jesus what. do you give me and the signal was like. well you kiss the guy that's Jesus in. we'll come get them and we'll give you. 30 pieces of silver 30 pieces of silver.

I mean the West Egg inflation calculator. doesn't go back to you know that that. date but uh I can imagine it still. probably wasn't that much 30 pieces of. silver I have no idea well apparently it. was used later on to buy a field to turn. into a Potter's field to bury uh. unclaimed dead oh really but I mean it's. field how much it couldn't have been. that much like how much was land going. for back then in the Middle East they. had tons of land um okay so Judas.

betrays Jesus he was um we didn't know. much about his life at the time but. recently there has been I think in. 2000 uh one of the Gospel a new gospel. was was revealed the Gospel of Judas. supposedly colon My Story my side of. things yeah uh and it was a of course a. papyrus docu. dating to the 2nd Century ad and it was.

written about in a book called The Lost. gospel and it portrays this uh Judas is. more of a facilitator of what Jesus. wanted basically Jesus was like hey turn. me in because this is my destiny yeah um. like sacrifice yourself I sacrifice. myself right and we all go on to live in. heaven and you know fulfill our. Destinies yeah which a lot of people. were like okay I kind of like this. different view of Judas you know know. and it makes Jesus even more pre than he.

appears in the Bible sure because you. know he's betrayed by some someone he. thought was his friend in this he um is. commanding Judas he's asking him to to. to do this so it's just an all around. like great view of the story when when. but unfortunately um apparently there's. some problems that a lot of Scholars um. Gnostic Scholars have with the the. translation and that if you just tweak a. few things to the way that the Gnostic.

Scholars think it should be translated. yeah that all just goes right out the. window and actually Judas is not only a. horrible treacherous traitor he's. actually a demon from the 13th level of. being yeah so quite two different. stories yeah all by changing a few words. in this uh Coptic text which isn't the. easiest stuff to translate like it's. tough you know it's not like and even. the person that poed the original uh. translation was like this is a very hard.

job you know I'm not saying they. necessarily did it on purpose but um. that's not what I think it says right. and so and that was uh April deconic a. professor of biblical studies at Rice. University and I don't know did other. people come out and support that I. couldn't really find. much uh I don't know and apparently. actually in the Bible it's hinted at. that Jesus could have known about it but. um well doesn't he say like one of you. will betray me I mean at least Heely in.

The Last Temptation Of Christ who Harvey. kelda is a pretty good Jesus or Judas. yeah yeah you know William def foe yeah. that was that was a good movie but um. yeah that was how I when I like anything. I'd ever heard I always thought like. Jesus knew it was just never as explicit. as this Gospel of Judas put it right and. in Gospel of Judas they even claim that. Jesus even asked Judas like hey Will you. do this for me right do me a solid so um.

kiss me put one right here right so. Judas uh realizes what he's done feels. horribly guilty tries to give the silver. back uh the high priests that he's sold. Jesus out to um won't take the money um. and so he throws it on the temple floor. they end up figuring out that it can be. used for a Potter's field and they use. that 30 pieces of silver for that um and. then Judas goes off and hangs himself. yeah and I don't think we said Jesus was. crucified. I thought that went without saying yeah.

but in case there's like one person out. there was like what happened to Jesus. right whatever became of Jesus that's. what happened um so and then Judas. supposedly fell. headlong and his body opened up and. there if you go back and read some. scholarly translations they think that. um his body opened up means that he was. left his body was left hanging for a. while oh wow out in the Heat and when it. finally fell uh like a branch broke or. whatever and it fell it kind of ruptured.

gross where'd you find that out I don't. remember somewhere online wow yeah it. was um yeah they were talking about how. he went headlong he became headlong and. they were saying like if you just switch. out like a couple of letters headlong. becomes. swollen and then that would explain why. his body opened up wow yeah uh and now. Judas and Judas kiss are both part of. the Lexicon and you know terms of. betrayals. man you know treacherous episode I know.

thanks. [Music]. Sam you. know you. [Music]. know how about Chuck I know you've seen. this movie I love this movie uh the. assassination of Jesse James by the.

coward coward Robert Ford yeah we've. talked about it God that is a good movie. very good movie written directed by uh. Andrew Dominic and uh has Paul Schneider. in our buddy Paul Schneider. yeah Schneids right he listens oh. hey what's he he's in it yeah he's he's. one of the gang and uh he he's he's a. great actor he's we've since become like. email Pals NE yeah so uh that was an.

excellent movie I'm sure Schnider did. fantastic in it he did great schneid. schneid um and it seems to me I don't. know a lot about the whole Saga of Jesse. James especially his demise yeah but it. seemed to be pretty true to everything. I've ever heard about it yeah I think. the movie was pretty accurate yeah and. it was great like gorgeous to look at. beautifully filmed yeah uh and not just. cuz Brad Pit was in. it uh but Casey Fleck as Robert Ford was. amazing he really so anyway if you.

haven't seen that movie go out and see. it in the meantime we'll spoil it for. you I think he was nominated for an. Academy I can't imagine how he wasn't he. was so creepy so what's the deal with. Jesse James well Jesse James was uh. member of the James gang yeah the leader. full partner well I think he and his. brother Frank were kind of co-leaders oh. really that's the impression I have like. Frank Stallone yeah and um they uh were. very successful at robbing trains. robbing people robbing banks robbing.

everything and they became Outlaw folk. Heroes everybody loved to hate but they. also still loved well they didn't kill. people no not until the second to last. robbery by Jesse James uh they botched. it and a couple of people died most of. the James gang was caught and Jesse and. Frank went off and assembled a new gang. that included Robert Ford yeah he was. pretty new um he had long tried to get. in the James gang mhm and um was sort of.

shunned as uh I don't know weirdo little. weird and like not the most skilled. robber and gunman and wasn't taken very. seriously which always bothered him. right so um Jesse James pulls off one. last train robbery in 1870 and decides. to retire Frank James retires and Robert. Ford kind of tangs along with Jesse. James the rest of his life and um the. governor of Missouri put a bounty on. Jesse James head of I believe.

$10,000 which is pretty substantial for. 1870 sure and in. 1882 uh Robert Ford took the governor of. Missouri up on this apparently met with. him yeah and not only said I'm going to. do this I want this reward I'm going to. split it with my brother here yeah but I. I I also want to be I want immunity from. my crimes yeah well he was supposedly. just supposed to capture him oh okay and. um did shooting on his own. volition and and there's a wood cutting.

in this article of Jesse James dropping. a feather duster just like he does in. the um movie oh yeah he he stands on a. chair in his own home to dust a picture. MH and Robert Ford shoots him in the. back of the head yeah and kills him just. right there very like uh lowkey and. anticlimactic with his wife home and. everything yeah and then they leave and. so Robert Ford kind of like I think. Benedict darnold expected to be. considered something of a hero yeah and.

he was considered a coward a. zero yeah yeah he was actually he and. his brother were both indicted found. guilty sentenced to hang and pardoned in. a single day W that's a heck of a day. yeah pretty like emotional roller. coaster going on there and they became. uh ostracized socially um Robert Ford. just became the butt of many jokes and. then finally um one day he was. confronted by a man who sought him out.

because he wanted to kill Robert Ford. for to gain his own Acclaim yeah Edward. o Kelly uh brought a shotgun into he was. uh a bar owner I think at the time. Robert Ford was and after by the way. they toured in a touring production oh. yeah like recreating the murders yeah. Sam Rockwell yeah and um so Edward o'. Kelly goes in the bar with a shotgun. says hello Bob he turns around shoots. him in the throat and he gets a sentence. commuted at after a petition and is. pardoned for killing Robert Ford yeah.

back then the prce mob rule definitely. had like. a a ground hold yeah I don't know what. that is but I think I got my point. across yeah they were like he was a. coward and you shot him so that makes. you a good guy. exactly uh so that's Robert Ford do you. got anything else nope should we move on. to mahati yeah I knew next to nothing. about Mahari yeah same here she turned. out to be a pretty fascinating woman.

yeah possibly not a traitor at all yeah. actually probably not a traitor at all. yeah let's let's talk about her well um. she was a very sexual being she was very. close to her father apparently who doted. on her and she has been described as um. sex as being her driving force and she. was said to have an insatiable longing. for male attention right her entire life. and for the time period early 1900s she.

really really slept around yeah and she. didn't just like the sex with the men. she' like them to buy her stuff oh yeah. well she used it as a means for sure. yeah she um she blew through a lot of. guys money right yeah and um just loved. to live lavishly racked up tons of debt. and um became something of a toast among. perisian Society European Society. actually yeah she was Dutch we should. point out yeah her real name was um.

Margarita zeli yeah but she looked like. Indian and she tried to remake herself. as this uh Indian exotic Indian dancer I. read Indonesian oh Indonesian yeah. because Mahari is um Malaysian for eye. of the Dawn which means Sunrise gotcha. so her name was sunrise the stripping. dancer well and she she didn't just. dance like this was at a time when the. Mulan Rouge was like they were like. pulling their skirts up a little bit and. showing some ankle and some knickers and.

she was like taking it to you know. another level apparently in people's. living rooms you private dances like. traveling dancing um like really erotic. and exotic stuff for the time so from. what I understand she was also a. sometime prostitute um when things were. really bad sure um and then she But. ultimately she just kind of went through. success session of of lovers around. Europe and uh at one point she found.

herself in um I guess in Amsterdam oh. and was approached by a German officer. and said hey we want you to spy for us. here's 20,000 Franks and some invisible. ink and um you're now a German spy right. and she's like whatever mine Heir right. thanks for the money sucker and threw. away the invisible ink supposedly and. never spied for Germany but she still. had a code name. h21 and as far as Germany was concerned.

she was a spy for them even though she. didn't take it seriously apparently and. never carried out any spying activities. right so she had a reputation as a. German spy yeah without actually spying. yet right and uh she was as uh this one. writer puts it she was traveling alone. she was wealthy she was an excellent. linguist and very foreign and very. educated and admitted to having lovers. and like all of this stuff for the time. just meant we don't trust you even if we.

don't have evidence right this makes you. untrustworthy right so um at some point. the French decided that they were going. to recruit her to become a French spy. this is during World War I yeah even. though they already suspected she was a. German spy she was sent around um to try. to get to I don't remember what country. they were trying to get her into uh uh. vatel oh well the town of vatel when she. was trying to go there she went to. Russia yeah she ended up going there for. a little while in exchange for becoming.

a French spy agreeing to spy for the. French exactly she ended up in Spain and. came across this German officer and. apparently he suspected her of being a. spy so when she started asking him. questions he gave her old information. yeah well they went to bed together as. well sure we should mention this thing. is just Rife with sex right and um he. gave her some old information this the. Frenchman who the French intelligence. officer who recruited her as a spy but. still suspected her as a German spy.

finally said you know what I think that. what you were really doing was giving. French secrets to the German you're a. double agent and we're going to arrest. you and she was arrested in France again. no evidence no evidence whatsoever and. tried for treason and convicted yeah and. um basically Thunder knows that the. whole experience and was. like I'm going to hold my head high I'm. going to blow you a kiss right before. you shoot me and the firing squad well. supposedly it wasn't the firing squad it. was two nuns that she became friends.

with and her lawyer who also she had. slept with that's who she blew kisses to. but she refused a blind thought she blew. okay that's what it said in this article. but I saw elsewhere it's like to the. nuns she also slept with her Headmaster. when she was 16 yeah and got kicked out. of school for it yeah so she refuses a. blindfold in the end she's all dressed. up and everything for her execution. she's standing ankle deep in mud on a. cold octob day in 1917 yeah she refuses. to be tied to the pole behind her she.

refuses to blindfold and is executed by. firing squad so the the weird thing is. is about 30 years later one of the. prosecutors in France admitted quote. they didn't have sorry here's the quote. there was. quote not enough evidence to flog a cat. yeah that she very very likely did not. ever spy for Germany yeah May made that. one half-hearted attempt in France just.

buy for France to make some money and. was executed and still didn't protest I. wonder if there's been a good movie on. her surely there has I don't know if. there's been a recent one she was tall. too she was like almost six feet tall. yeah she looks very long yeah look at. her it's hard to like sometimes it's. tough to look at pictures from back then. and see the attraction you know yeah. it's just a different time period. yeah I think it was the fact that she. took off her clothes and was real sexy.

and Tall yeah slept with. [Music]. everybody so. Mahari probably was not a traitor and.

they really had a lot of uh trouble. trying to prove that another famous. traitor was actually a traitor and that. woman was Iva toguri toino yeah yeah. Toyo. Rose yeah she was uh in fact I'm just. going to go ahead and say it she was not. a spy and she was not a treasonous. Trader um because it was proven so and. she was pardoned by Gerald Ford right so.

she was born uh so I'm just going to. take her off the list okay we'll finish. the story though yeah it's a it's a. worthwhile story yeah I have a togu she. was born in uh America in Los Angeles um. and had a degree in Zoology from UCLA. yeah and in 1941 she traveled to Tokyo. to take care of an aien aunt her family. center over there yeah despite the fact. that she didn't really speak Japanese. she hadn't been raised in Japanese. culture apparently yeah it was a lot of. culture shock but she still went over to.

take care of her aunt nonetheless and. while she was there she got uh two jobs. one she was typing for uh one new. service and she got a second job as a. typist for um the one of the radio. stations yeah and they're like hey. you're American uh ja Japanese American. and you have a great voice and you're. perfect for this new thing uh that we're. going to do it's um American rock and. roll music and we're going to play for. the uh morale of the troops and well to.

deteriorate the morale well but she they. told her a different story at first. though oh okay they told her it was to. boost the morale really yeah like I. don't think she knew what she was. getting into that's crazy why would the. Japanese boost the morale of the. American troops in the Pacific well it. it was later said that it did in fact. boost the morale they said Americans. love the music and thought the Tokyo. Rose banter was funny and it lifted. their Spirits that's funny yeah okay so. if they were really trying to do that it. did a pretty poor job of it okay but.

nonetheless she was reporting on things. like um ships being sunk is that correct. yeah she called well that's what she was. eventually the one thing that they. pinned on her okay well then that didn't. actually happen oh really yeah okay so. well let's get back to the story World. War II goes along yeah she um right it. ends and she tries to get back to. America and as she's doing that. apparently the Japanese government. identified her as Tokyo Rose yeah she. was orphan an was her radio name and.

Tokyo Rose was just sort of the name of. the operation as a whole right and not a. single person even though they tied her. to that name which led to some great. confusion apparently yeah because they. were trying to get her as Tokyo Rose. even though her she called herself. orphan Anne and there were like 12 women. including her that were all Tokyo Rose. collectively yeah okay um so the. Japanese government says that's Tokyo. Rose and uh she said I'm orphan an the. American uh intelligence Services of the. army investigated her and could find no.

evidence that she committed any form of. treason and they were going to let her. in the country back in her their place. of birth um because she traveled without. a passport yeah and now that she's. trying to get back in she needed a. passport um apparently a lot of veterans. groups are like you can't let Tokyo Rose. into the the US yeah it was this one guy. kind of started the charge and was. successful the the reporter Harry. bundridge yeah well apparently he got a. couple of Japanese guys to to commit.

perjury and and present false evidence. against um Tokyo Rose yeah the two most. damaging Witnesses actually like just. completely lied right the FBI put him up. to it coached them yeah and said you're. going to get tried for treason if you. don't do this so she ended up being. tried and convicted for treason um and. sentenced to 10 years and she got out in. 1956 and they tried to deport her and um. she successfully battled deportation and. moved to Chicago Died In 2006 I think.

she worked at a retail store until 2006. her father's store 2006 she was working. in a retail store yeah at 90 years old. and nobody even people didn't like come. in there to see Tokyo Rose like she was. just a worker yeah isn't that weird it. is like such a prominent figure in. history it just a ringing people up yeah. like you said uh Ford. pardoner yeah Gerald. and then he fell down so let's talk.

about the quizzing just briefly yeah the. quizzing is uh we mentioned earlier is. another name if you live in uh perhaps. Norway or maybe other parts of Europe. you might be called a quizzing if you're. a traitor because of vidkun quizzing. yeah he was uh he basically tried to. seize power after buddying up with. Hitler in 1940 and said you know what. I'm I'm going to I'm going to use this. as an opportunity to make Norway my own.

yeah and he did so for a very very short. time yeah he invited the Nazis to come. invade Norway they did he um made a. power grab and said I'm now the ruler of. Norway and the Nazis let that slide for. about a week they're like sure sure. you're a ruler then they installed their. own guy as the uh head of Norway and. demoted quizzing to uh pres Minister. President yeah and uh apparently he went. to work sentencing uh Norwegian Jews to.

concentration camps yeah uh he really. bad guy yeah he was um very much. anti-union he was a fascist and he was. trying to make Norway fascists and he. did so he became the first person to. ever announce a coupet t on uh. television that's how he made his power. grab oh really yeah I think it was. television although it seems early so. maybe it was radio but I guess he became. the first one to announce it over a. broadcast. all right so um after the Nazis were.

defeated he was like oh no yeah I have a. feeling this is going to end up bad for. me yeah and he was uh convicted of. treason sentenced to death and executed. by firing squad Y and you are a quizzler. I'm sorry. quizzing if you collude yeah if you're. in Norway and you're a traitor you're a. quizzing y it's like the Benedict Arnold. of Norway so Chuck you got anything else. no and as per usual uh this is a top 10. that we do about six of and encourage.

people to go read the rest including uh. Robert Hansen who we've talked about. yeah um Ezra pound who we talked about. in the insanity defense Y and uh the. Cambridge 5 y not the Seattle 7 or the. Jackson 5 or the Jackson 5 yeah and did. we skip another one or was that it uh I. don't remember oh the intro we didn't. mention. um the Cleveland Cavaliers ire LeBron. against LeBron which I just think that's. weird well I think Cleveland went. berserk that sort of has passed and.

there's rumors of him going back to. Cleveland anyway next year no way really. maybe his contract's up and they think. that he might love nothing more than to. go back there and win a championship huh. well we'll see yeah we'll see what. happens uh if you want to learn more. about Traders you can type that word. into the search bar at houseof works.com. and it'll bring up this article and uh. since I said search bar it means it's. time for listener. mail uh this is capg grass hey guys. thanks so much for doing the cap grass. syndrome episode it was amazing timing.

came out right around Father's Day and. my father suffers from the syndrome it's. been very painful to watch no yeah wow. uh during my marriage we have never. lived very close to my parents but just. under three years ago we moved close. enough for day trips about the same time. my dad had a fairly significant stroke. and it made the slow progress of. vascular dementia Alzheimer's that he. also suffers from significantly worse I. started visiting my dad on a weekly. basis I would spend the day with him. while my mom and brother would get the. Monday Rush orders out uh apparently Dad.

ran a mail order business uh when I. first started these visits dad knew who. I was and we talked and I shared photos. and stories of my kids but within just 6. months the cap grass really took effect. we had to work our way through who this. strange lady was who lived there now my. mom and why did Linda my mom leave him. and uh watched his absolute fear when. she would walk into the room uh he. eventually forgot who my brother and I. were as well as well as our spouse. houses and kids although I had to giggle. a little bit during the small amount of.

time when my husband was the only one of. us he knew because cap grass affects. those closest to you and then works his. way out so the husband wasn't around him. as much right so at one point he was the. only person that he recognized wow the. wife thought that was kind of funny uh. now the dementia and Alzheimer's have. progressed to a point of living in the. past and not even remembering moment to. moment let alone day today he still. doesn't know why his family has. abandoned him even though we're all. around him all the time man tough I know. he lives a very fear-filled and lonely. life among strangers I liken it to.

living in a nightmare every moment of. the day um and it sounds really sad but. she she was fairly upbeat in the email. like that we corresponded with just to. like people out there crying and stuff. thanks for doing the podcast when I talk. about how dad is doing it's tough to. explain what he's going through and now. I can just send people to the podcast to. learn more about it so it's really. helped yeah that's cool uh that is Jill. overturf in Republic Missouri well. thanks a lot Jill we appreciate you uh. sharing that yeah and I you know I hope. things improve for your father yeah for.

sure um if you have a story about. something we've talked. about ever uh we want to hear it. especially if um we've helped you. explain it to other people we like that. kind of thing um you can tweet to us at. sysk podcast you can join us on. facebook.com/ stuff you should know and. you can send us an email to stuff. podcast at iheartradio.com.

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