Selects: Dr. Seuss: The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW

hi everybody I hope you're having a. great weekend Chuck Bryant here co-host. of the stuff you should know podcast of. what you are listening to this select's. episode comes from December 2018 and. it's all about old Dr Seuss theator geel. uh Dr Seuss colon The Good the Bad and. the Ugly because if you talk about Dr. Seuss you got to talk about it all uh. the the the books the great stuff and. some of the not so great stuff so check.

it out now if you'd like Dr Seuss colon. The Good the Bad and the. Ugly welcome to stuff you should know a. production of iHeart. [Music]. Radio hey and welcome to the podcast I'm. Josh Clark there's Charles W Chuck. Bryant there's Jerry over there and this. is the Dr so cast our final episode of.

this year. 2018 so long in the. books Dr soy Dr soy that's right you. know what's funny well we'll get to that. all right everything that's funny can. wait yep we're GNA talk serious Dr Seuss. was an author of children's books he was. so great and also kind of racist Chuck. there's a lot of stuff in here I wish I. didn't. know I know I think we're about to ruin.

Dr Seuss at the end of the year right. right after the holidays. right uh yeah but well let's just talk. about the man okay so um we are talking. we keep saying Dr so everybody knows him. as Dr Seuss but apparently the correct. pronunciation is soy yeah and and the. guy would know because soy is actually. his middle name his name was Theodore so. Gil or geel is it geil or G it would be.

geil in German you go with the second. vowel so Theodore so geil yeah and uh it. sort of when I saw that everyone. basically was like Seuss until he. eventually was like fine like I can't. fight this fight any long well they're. like we'll spell it differently then uh. but they're reminded me of Joe. thean oh yeah the very famous story of. the quarterback Joe theeman who changed. his spelling or his pronunciation to. thyman to rhy with Heisman right which I.

think is the story I think that's true. no no I think that's true oh really yeah. what' you think that was just like an. old football tail no i' never heard I. thought you were just being funny oh no. that that really happened and that. really came back to bite him in the rump. when his thigh bone broke open God he's. like I guess my knee would have busted. if he had just kept at thasan oh is that. not okay too soon I don't. know so we're obviously once we get into. Joe thyman leg breaking talk we're.

talking about Dr Seuss that's right like. I said Theodore so Gil um who is I can't. really think of a children's book author. that is more widely known maybe Charles. Schultz maybe I think a more is like. comic strip guy children's book sure. sure children's book yeah like Judy. Bloom sure but I don't know if I'd call. her children's book young adult TW ya. like children's book I guess the baron.

stain bears not the baron stein bears. yeah I I would say that Teddy geel uhhuh. holds that distinction for sure at the. very least his work his drawing is just. immediately recognizable his style yeah. I mean that font we you we use that font. for our live uh Christmas show shirts X. on the opyright k no it's not his okay. in fact I looked it up I was kind of. curious I was like what is that great. font that he uses for his book titles.

and I don't know what he used he. probably just handrew it I imagine but. um now there are fonts called uh soy do. s oos font or grinched uh that you can. you know gotcha you can gank that sure. like we did for our Christmas shirts I. haven't heard that word in Forever gank. I think I was wearing like huge jenos. the last time I heard the word gank he. ganked my milk off my tray.

yeah I'm bringing it back that was the. last time I used it too so should we go. back to the beginning yes back to. Springfield Massachusetts in 1904 that's. right March 2 as a matter of fact fellow. Pisces uh Dr soy was born uh Teddy geel. and his Grand poops had come from. Germany in the mid- 1800s bought a. brewery because they were good Germans. they they knew all about beer and. originally get this the name of the.

brewery was comach and Gil and they. locally called it comeback and guzzle I. love that isn't that awesome in German n. less yeah whatever that would be I think. it'd be Comack and. gisel uh so he moved here and it would. end up becoming the Springfield. breweries company which his father then. ran um and this is really like we did. even did a show on prohibition and it. never really hit home to me some of the. repercussions of that I was just like. people can't drink right but I never.

thought about a family business just. being shut down that was a good episode. it was uh but that's what happened that. you know prohibition came along they had. this successful Brewery in their family. that was it they're like sorry you're no. longer in business go find another job. these guys yeah yeah who were secretly. drinking right you know so um the the. job that his his father did get was. eventually became the supervisor of the. town's Parks yeah yeah kind of cool and.

um there's a a myth an incorrect myth. from what I understand one of the parks. had a zoo in it and so a lot of people. say that drawings of the animals were. some of the first at the zoo were some. of the first drawings that little Ted. came up with not true no his father. became superintendent of the Parks when. he was already a grown man oh but did he. well not a grown man he was definitely. not a little kid at the zoo did he go to. the zoo and draw animals or is that all. false I think it may be all false but I. making that part up I just from what I.

read he was grown enough that he wasn't. a little boy drawing pictures of animals. at the zoo like people think interesting. yeah I thought it was as well I love. busting myths I'm gonna wear a beret. from now on yeah you should do a show uh. so World War I comes along which I've. been I've been doing a lot of World War. I reading lately with the really. anniversary of the armist armosis yeah. you got it uh really interesting I. didn't know much about it it's a pretty. serious. man brutal everything I know about it is.

from the Wonder Woman movie. yeah I kid uh so they were German uh the. the geil were like we said and so in the. United States during World War I there. was a lot of anti in fact for a long. time actually there was a lot of. anti-german sentiment in the US right. they're like we're not German we just. like beer a lot right we all beer and. her name is Gul right uh so everyone it. was clear that they were German and so.

uh you know there was there was uh I get. the feeling that he you know felt like. he was like picked on and laughed at and. teased because he was German right so if. you can't beat him join him turn that. same kind of bigotry on to others we'll. find right so he starts at a very early. age in high school um drawing cartoons. uh writing essays uh funny essays. satirical essays and he started using a. pin name very early on U maybe because. he was German. and he just reversed his last name and.

he became Theo Las yeah actually one of. my favorite books um Hooper Humper dink. not him is written by Theo Le oh really. yeah interesting always was like I. always thought this was a Dr Seuss book. and then I saw this and I'm like it was. a Dr Seuss book wow all right do you. ever read that one I don't think so. what's it called Hooper Humper dink not. him it's about this kid who's thrown a. birthday party and everybody's invited. to the greatest birthday party you've. ever seen in your life except for poor.

Hooper humperdink and I think he gets. invited finally at the end where your. parents like we should probably get Josh. this and go ahead and get him ready. right pretty much there actually was a. birthday party I wasn't invited to and I. was like I'm Hooper Humper dink oh well. you know my deal was I wasn't allowed to. go to boy girl parties for a while so. but you were still invited right yeah. but that was even worse cuz I was. invited and I was like I had to say no I. can't go cuz there's girls there right. got you I mean how humiliating is that.

especially in college yeah and they were. like uh what's wrong with girls I'm like. I don't know ask my parents they seem. great to me they've not told me they. smell nice um all right so he reversed. his name became Las uh went to Dartmouth. College and like many many famous um. humorists I guess you could call them. yeah for sure he wrote for the his. College Humor Magazine it was called The. Jackal Lantern obviously and it was just. like. really solidifies that College Humor.

magazines really have produced some of. the brightest comedic Minds that in this. country over the years you know um. yeah Letterman I think he worked at. National Lampoons didn't he I don't know. if Letterman Conan certainly did the. Harvard Lampoon I'm pretty sure um. Letterman did as well all right at the. very least a lot of his writers did sure. okay fine okay we'll settle on that that. version of the truth okay uh but he got.

kicked off of the magazine staff when he. was caught drinking on campus during. prohibition which is kind of awesome. yeah I bet it wasn't for him what do you. mean I bet he was like well I want to be. on the magazine staff this is terrible. this is an unjust law oh yeah not. awesome for him right yeah yeah I. thought you meant he wasn't doing the. drinking or something right this did. nothing to cut his career off though no. no no he just adopted a new pseudonym. yeah soy right. SE USS again but he pronounced it soy.

right but he was the only person who did. um so he did graduate from Dartmouth in. I think 1926 which also further goes to. show that he was so if he graduated. college in. 1926 then his father's Brewery wouldn't. have been shut down until I don't. remember when prohibition started but he. would he was obviously not a young kid. necessarily gotcha okay drawing dumb. animals at the zoo at the zoo um but he.

uh he went on to Oxford to I guess. pursue a higher degree yeah um I think. he was going to be a teacher was his. original intent and he didn't like. Oxford but Oxford brought him to his. wife uh Helen Palmer yeah his first wife. his first wife and um they met and she. actually had a really great influence on. him by saying uh I think you are maybe. going to be a better artist than a. teacher and kind of pushed him toward.

that yeah and he ended up pursuing a. career in art largely because of her. influence yeah and he sort of did the. the student thing uh he he worked on a. novel and he traveled around Europe and. was sort of uh doing and he was with. Helen of course this whole time they. eventually get married and then he went. to work for a magazine called judge. drawing once again like uh political. cartoons humor cartoons acted uh this is. where he added the doctor to his name as.

sort of a joke cuz he I guess did not. get that doctorate degree or whatever he. was pursuing no he didn't but later on. in life Dartmouth did bestow an honorary. degree to make him an official doctor. when are we going to get one of those. I've been waiting a long time Chuck and. are they as worthless as I think they. are totally yeah I mean sure you'll get. like the discount at Wendy's that they. offer but that's that's really the only. perk aside from saying like I'm a doctor. can you really call yourself that though. sure like only Chumps do that right like.

you have to call me doctor now dude you. you will see me telling people to call. me doctor Clark okay I'll just I'll be. more personable I'll be Dr Josh like a. chiropractor I could see you going off. and getting your PhD one day nah nah nah. I I want the the. honor from Bowling Green State. University in Ohio the back door version. pretty much the free version um all. right so he got the doctor on the name. became Dr soy and from then on he he.

never wrote under his given name again. he was always Dr soy from that point. forth right should we take a break you. can see me getting a PhD yeah this late. in my career yeah this mid in my career. sure huh am I like Natalie Portman or. something yes all right let's take a. [Music]. break. stuff with.

josua and. Char stuff you. should all right. Natalie. Nat uh I wish right I'll bet Natalie. Portman hates being called nat you think. she seems like the type of Natalie who. would hate being called nat she let's. find out Dr Portman Natalie Portman will. you please get in touch with us and let. us know whether you're cool with being. called n or not well hey since we're on.

that uh big shout out to Mr Mark Ruffalo. who's basically the male Natalie Portman. yeah he he tweeted out our Navajo code. talkers episode which means that he's. aware of this podcast and we're huge. fans so if you're listening man thanks. yeah thanks a lot L not just aware he. liked it he encouraged people to listen. to it he wasn't like steer clear of this. piece of poop right this is a good. podcast is what he was saying man I I. remember when I saw you can count on me. for the first time oh my God that movie.

Wrecked me it was such a good movie yeah. not just the first time like just every. time you watch that movie it's wonderful. it's really great so uh I have another. show called movie Crush Mr Ruffalo would. love to have you on hint we'll just. leave it there okay uh all right so. um all right here's what happens okay. Teddy geel starts doing. ads yeah and does quite well yeah I mean. if you're an ad illustrator you're you. basically do what you're told the client.

says this is what we want mhm he was the. kind of artist who because of his. distinctive style his style is what the. clients wanted right so as an ad. illustrator he became nationally famous. yeah which is crazy to think of now it. really is his first Big Break was for. something called flit it was a bug spray. and if you look at the flit ads they. have a picture of the flit and it was. that old timey Tom and Jerry pump can.

that's like couldn't be more poisonous. yeah post out like a cloud of noxious. smoke that formed like a skull and. crossbones in the air basically right um. that's what he was drawing stuff for and. he came up with a catchphrase because he. wasn't just illustrating he was also. copyrighting in these ads and he came up. with quick Henry the flit and that just. became a national catchphrase yeah like. where's the beef right like somebody's. pestering you just like to somebody else. quick Henry the flit that's how I. probably would have used it but um so he. became known for that and then a second.

egg campaign made him even bigger uh oh. right so he did flit for 17 years dude. right which is like I thought yeah sure. he did that for a couple of years right. I mean those almost two decades of doing. those ads made a lot of money uh kept. them you know uh nice and employed. through the through the Great Depression. and then this one's even weirder uh he. went to work for Standard Oil who Hado. uh oil Ando gas right and this waso.

Marine which was their boat oil yeah in. 1934 he has this PR idea to create a a. fake. Navy the Seuss Navy the Seuss Navy which. is nothing he just made it up out of. nowhere to promote Theo marine oil yeah. and it worked yeah because he he. basically drafted people into his Navy. he would draw like famous figures um. like say Elanor Roosevelt or something. like that dressed up in the S the Seuss. Navy uniform or whatever and it became a.

thing like people wanted to be in it so. they would apply to be in it and I guess. ESO would hold a party every year and. just pull out all the stops and there. would be this lavish Seuss Seuss navy. party you know it's called what the. Seuss Navy luncheon and Frolic that. sounds so like 30s uh they had 2,000. Admirals and they included among them uh. Vincent Aster and Guy Lombardo famous. band leader MH and as uh this is a. grabster article as Ed put it they were.

what you would call like tast makers. today like wealthy influential Americans. right wanted to be in this fake Navy to. go to this uh luncheon and Frolic right. and he wrote these little Navy story. booklets and it astonishingly it was a. big deal and it actually worked and when. you look at them they they look like Dr. Seuss books like right it's not like he. changed his style no no no that is the. thing like he became famous for famous. and sought after for his style yeah yeah. exactly and weirdly enough he said that.

the the only reason he went into. children's books initially was because. his Standard Oil contract didn't forbid. it huh like that was some of the work. that he was allowed to do on the side oh. gotcha he never he was like it's not. like I had a great thing for kids well. he even said very famously multiple. times um that he didn't write for kids. he wrote for people re and he also. famously said you have kids I'll. entertain them right yeah he didn't want. kids did not want kids no and he never. had him so his wish came.

true so um he he was already pretty. famous by the time World War II came. around um and he actually volunteered to. become a soldier but he was sent to. Hollywood to work at what was called. Fort Fox yeah this was strange I mean I. had heard of the signal core. um well the signal core is everything. from code. like code and code Breakers really all.

the way to psychological operations Oh I. thought the signal core was just like. the people that made documentaries and. stuff this was a division within the. signal core gotcha and so he was. basically in this this um this division. with Frank kapra yeah and some other. like. screenwriters actors like basically. anybody who had anything to do with. visual entertainment was put into this. group in Hollywood on the fox lot at was. called Fort Fox and he um that's where.

he spent most of the war although there. was a fascinating story about a time. when he went to Europe because he had to. go get approvals for a documentary he. had worked on yeah from all the high. ranking Generals in Europe so he went. from headquarters to headquarters. throughout Europe and while he was in. Luxembourg he visited some of his. friends and he um basically got the. skinny they think on the ghost Army you. know the ghost Army where they had. inflatable tanks. like it was meant to make America's.

military look way bigger than it was and. these guys were running psychological. operations well Dr Seuss was friends. with some of the higher ups in the the. ghost Army and they think that they. showed him on a map like where to go to. go see some of these well in between the. time he left and the time he got there. that was suddenly Behind Enemy Lines. yeah the Battle of the Bulge literally. started around him around him while he. was yeah and he's like I was just. driving around thinking like it was just.

hard to find friendly troops like as. part of combat Belgium sure is pretty. but he ended up inadvertently spending 3. days 10 miles Behind Enemy Lines during. the Battle of the Bulge and just barely. made it out with his life yeah he was. rescued by the Brits um but he would. eventually become a lieutenant colonel. yeah uh in his short stint as a late. 30-year-old he was I think 38 when he. first went in right uh which a really. kind of interesting piece of backstory. well he he was we left out a pretty.

pretty big part of his formative years. early on in his career was he wanted to. become he wanted to have a a say in the. direction America took in World War II. and he was very much in favor of going. to war against the Nazis and Japan in. Italy and um one of the reasons why he. was in favor was because he was. extremely. anti-fascist he hated Fascism and he got. a job at a liberal magazine I think a. newspaper actually called PM that was.

founded in New York and it was founded. with the eye to to basically call people. out who are pushing other people around. yeah it's very liberal very anti-fascist. very Pro um World War II although they. didn't call it that at the time and it. was very anti- isolationist too and Dr. Seuss was drawing editorial cartoons. very political edit editorial cartoons. about seven days a week for this.

magazine um and he did some really good. work in it actually well yeah and then. in the uh in the Army he actually made. films he was he was making documentaries. right alongside Frank cpra uh he had won. series of training videos called private. snafu that were animated um but they. were the work of Chuck Jones actually. yeah it's just so crazy about all this. Talent that's like in the Army producing. these things at the time uh but he he. went on to make live action. documentaries um one called your job in.

Germany another called our job in Japan. um MacArthur stopped the release of our. job in Japan uh and apparently um. General Patton stormed out of a. screening of one of the other ones and I. couldn't find the word but it said he. uttered one loud curse word oh you. couldn't find it no do you did you it. was BS oh okay I was trying to think of. what it would be sure yeah I was like. but one word so it wasn't the f word. unless it was just a very just long.

drawn. out I don't have time for this you know. uh all right BS that makes sense yeah. which I don't understand I don't know. what the problem was but they were both. the the our job in Japan or your job in. Germany yeah was about occupation post. post occupation um life in Germany or. Japan and what yeah you can watch your. job in Germany on YouTube yeah and and. our job in Jaan hand too yeah so he he. uh recut those basically kind of rewrote.

and recut those later on and retitled. them uh Hitler lives and designed for. death no he didn't they were recut. around him without his say oh no no no. he and his wife later got those films. and recut them and won an Academy Award. oh okay yeah I had read that a producer. went and and did some recutting against. their wishes and made it way worse than. than they originally intended oh well. that may have happened and then maybe. they then later on recut it got the. Oscar for their version right I don't.

know okay but we left out a lot actually. because he um he was actually had. previous to the Army had already written. children's books like he went fully into. this because of a ship trip that he took. okay in 1936 let's let's walk it back a. little bit they uh they went on a. transatlantic Voyage aboard the MS uh. kung's home and apparently the ship's. engine had this beat this hyp IC. throbbing sound that just really stuck.

with him and it got into his head and so. he started composing rhyming couplets. that match with this Rhythm kind of like. uhuh uhuh uh uh that's my SS kung's home. impression all right well it ended up. being uh what's called anapestic. tetrameter which is what he would make. his career on this uh poetic meter you. know what that made me think of Chuck um. that like I've never heard those words. together in my life but no one ever.

taught me how to read a Dr Seuss book. it's almost like we have some ingrain. thing in our brain to read things in. that kind of Rhythm or rhyme you know. what I mean or is it just that my. parents read that to me and that's where. I picked it up from but who taught them. I who ever taught anybody how to read. something in Rhymes it's just like you. just know pretty intuitive and even when. you when you when you're not reading it. in the right rhythm your brain realizes. it and corrects you and you go back and.

reread it the right way right like when. you get to the next line you're like oh. wait that's out of beat or whatever like. you figure it out naturally and I wonder. why we're geared toward that yeah it's. funny too cuz I obviously read a lot of. kids books every night now and some of. them are great and some of them just. like they'll do a word that doesn't. quite rhyme and I'm always like come on. come on or they'll stuff too much in a. line and it's not like graceful in the. read I'm like man this is lame do better. orange and door hinge hey that's not bad.

well that's Eminem oh okay he very. famously can rhyme something with orange. which I found out because I think I said. nothing rhymes with orange and. everybody's like well everyone's always. said that because that's true well I. meant it door hinge that's funny uh so. he created a children's book uh on that. uh anapestic tetrameter called and this. is a story no one can beat uh that was. later changed uh and published in 1937. as and to think that I saw it on mulbury.

street because he had an old friend that. he ran into from Dartmouth that turned. out to be a children's book editor at. Vanguard press so I read a a an account. of the story and the person saying. telling the story said had he been. walking on the other side of the street. that day he may have never become a. children's author yeah like it was that. fateful um he his friend from Dartmouth. was a new children's book editor at. Vanguard you said yeah and and it was so. new that he was looking for material and.

Dr Seuss happened to be walking around. with the manuscript on him and just. happened to be down there and they ran. into each other and this book got. published and that was the one where he. first made his name as a children's book. writer you're right and shout out to. stepen Bar book agent that's right yeah. uh so this this uh anapestic tetramer is. what he basically stuck with the rest of. his career he would alter it here and. there there use other meters here and. there but this is where he you know as.

Ed said that was his bread and butter. and it's very walike uh you can count it. off in three four time and it just was. sort of perfect for kids books right and. with that first kids book um and I think. I saw it on mberry Street apparently. it's about a kid named Marco who sees a. horse and cart on the street and as he's. retelling it it just becomes this bigger. and bigger and more like bizarre and. Grand thing that he saw um and this will. come back later on in the episode yeah.

so he's writing these books he's doing. okay uh he his fourth book was called. Horton Hatches the Egg I think that's. where we first meet Horton um but but he. wasn't like lighting the world on fire. and then that's when he goes in the Army. right let me tell you the story about. getting caught in the Battle of the. Bulge. again here we go so he makes it through. World War II he escapes with his life. from the Battle of the Bulge and when he. comes out of World War II he goes um. right back to writing books and he he.

wrote a few more in the' 40s um I. believe he wrote urle the turtle which I. know is an allegory for Hitler he was on. record say yeah apparently the early. drafts of it he had drawn a Hitler. mustache on urle the turtle it's about. anti- authorit about authoritarian is. that Hitler or Michael. Jordan does he have a Hitler mustache he. did very famously in in that this one. hannes TV commercial and everyone was. like uh has someone not told him I don't.

I didn't see that oh yeah I'll have to. show you pictures I had my head in the. sand like I was Charles Lindberg or. something oh that's a nice circular ref. that was just for you and me um so he. was writing some more and he was I mean. he was selling like thousands of copies. every every time he released a book he. was a known children's author he'd. already established his his style as. something that was pretty recognizable. around the un States but it wasn't until. the.

mid-50s that things really changed for. him yeah oh wow that is a Hitler. mustache there's no mistak in that it's. a it's a decision um so I think in. 1955 there was a book written called why. can't Johnny re right okay and a guy. named Rudolph flesh and I realize what. we've jumped over we'll get back to it. sure I'm not ready for it yet all right. um a guy named Rudolph flesh it this.

Rudolph flesh yeah fle was he a porn. actor that'd be a good one though yeah. Rudy flesh um yeah you'd have to call. yourself Rudy too would you yeah anyway. Rudolph flesh um he wrote why can't. Johnny Reed and it was basically like an. indictment of the American public school. system the education system and how we. taught kids to read and it was equally. an indictment of like Dick and Jane and. the that kids used to read or be taught. to read was just basically hear our.

words on a page memorize them this is a. red ball this is the word red don't be. an idiot red ball say it yeah it's kind. of the worst way to teach kids stuff it. is and the guy in the article said um he. wrote an article in life later on too he. said you know who' be a great children's. book author to teach kids how to read is. Dr Seuss hat kids he's already writing. books for kids why but if he just. directed that toward actually teaching. teaching them how to read that' be that. kids would definitely want that and it.

turns out that um an editor I think at. hotton Mifflin or somebody wherever. wherever Dr Seuss was writing at the. time Thunder Mifflin Thunder Mifflin oh. wait you got me um he said that's. actually a pretty good idea and that's. where we got the cat and the hat that's. right it was it was originally meant as. a reading. primer uh I think there were 225 225. words and and very famously his editor. bet him after after that that he could. not write a book with only 50 words and.

he went take this book green eggs and. ham and shove it and shove it and give. me my $50 right and that is supposedly. true his editor bet him that he could. not do so and that's where Green Eggs. and Ham came from yeah and it's 50 words. exactly that's right um so he at this. point he went from Ed says he went from. being a well-known children's author to. probably the best known children's. author in the world yeah he'd shown not. only could he write fun Whimsical um.

stories with the disguised moral lesson. in the middle of it too um with great. illustrations and handdrawn fonts and. all that he could actually teach the. world's children how to read English at. least yeah and then from that success he. he wrote uh that same year uh How the. Grinch Stole Christmas that's a big year. man very big year so so Cat in the Hat. and the Grinch of the same year right. yeah okay yeah which is just amazing and. then in 196 6 of course we get the very. famous uh TV cartoon adaptation which uh.

people still love and enjoy today. including me m oh yeah uh and he ended. up being so successful that they gave. him his own imprint at random house um. with his wife uh Helen Palmer geel who. was um kind of by all accounts the woman. behind the man she yeah she was an. author herself uh she wrote quite a few. a few books one called do you know do. you know what I'm going to do next. Saturday to. you one called I know what she did last.

summer right. [Laughter]. um man it's funny adding those two words. just makes it threatening it's a horror. novel uh one called why I built the. boole house and one called I was kissed. by a seal at the zoo that sounds great. uh so I didn't want to just kind of wash. over her because she she was an author. and uh very sadly she ended up. committing suicide very late in life. yeah a couple years of an affair that he. had yeah um and he'd apparently had.

multiple Affairs and her um her suicide. note supposedly referenced this this. feeling that she'd kind of been. overshadowed by him in his career yeah. and like you said she was very much the. woman behind the man and I think. expected to support him and all that. thing and she did she put her own career. away so that she could handle his. correspondence and business Affairs she. was in charge of Correspondence to like. sick kids that wrote her entire classes. and um she was she was he all he he was.

the artistic genius who just needed to. be left alone so he could make these. books every year and she handled. everything else right and to ask. somebody to put their career away so. that you can have yours it's a big thing. to ask somebody yeah I mean she was 69. when she uh and I believe I said. committed suicide earlier I apologize I. know we don't use that term anymore yeah. so we say now that she died by Suicide. right right yeah because committed makes. it sound like oh my God she committed a.

sin yeah and we people have written in. about that and I was I was we were both. glad to be made aware of that so she was. 69 years old and apparently also. suffered from uh gilam bear G bar. syndrome yeah we got corrected on that. some other time that's how I remember. how to pronounce it yeah uh so I mean. who who knows why someone eventually. takes that path and life could be a lot. of factors yeah uh but yeah October 23rd.

1967 she overdosed on medication after. they've been married for 40 years too. yeah man um and so uh shortly after that. he married uh Audrey Diamond yes geel. who's his uh Widow who uh is I believe. still alive and in basically running his. estate still yeah her name was Audrey. stone diamond but it was d m o n d no a. oh yeah which is interesting I wonder if. it's efficient but yes she became.

soy and he went just go ahead and get. used to it it's Seuss she's like really. I've always said so he's like I love you. uh and she had two daughters uh and he. said I bet you they'd love boarding. school yeah and she went okay and she. later on even said uh this is a direct. quote she said they wouldn't have been. happy with Ted and Ted wouldn't have. been happy with them yeah he really did. not want kids or kids to be around he. just liked doing the books that he liked.

to do it's pretty interesting so he um. that 1957 year that was a big breakout. year for him and um that was kind of the. year that he became the Dr Seuss that we. we see but he kept writing for many many. years I mean up until his death in 1991. he apparently cranked out like a book a. year yeah um. some of the some of them over time kind.

of took on much more Progressive tones. until he became the Dr Seuss that we see. today so prior to that though um in. recent years some people have kind of. said hey you know Dr stuss had some. really racist bigoted stuff in his early. work and it's become kind of. this National conversation to kind of. figure out how to do this because. everyone loves Dr Seuss loves Dr Seuss.

there's nobody who doesn't like Dr Seuss. but if you or his work I should say sure. but if you if you start digging into. especially some of his early work it. becomes problematic um you want you want. to take a break uh okay all right all. right let's take a break and we will. take part in that National conversation. right after. [Music]. this. learning Stu with.

josua and. Char. St all right Chuck so it's National. conversation time so Dr Seuss uh. especially in his earliest work as. Jackal Lantern and judge writer The. Humor Magazine writer a lot of his stuff. was extremely racist yes uh as Ed puts. it not just racist for the time but but. monstrously racist stuff yeah like uh.

full-on blackface caricatures um it. depicted uh African-American characters. as uh lazy as Savages uh have too many. kids he made jokes about slavery there's. one we can't even read on this show yeah. uh but it's awful yeah right um he also. especially as uh after Pearl Harbor. directed A a lot of his Creative Energy. toward uh making ugly caricatures of.

Japan and depicting Japanese and. Japanese Americans in really. unflattering light too yeah and. apparently supported. internment uh and this isn't you. know you don't want to drag somebody. through the mud right but if we're going. to give a picture of the man this is who. he was earlier in his life right so Ed. makes a really good point I think Ed's a. great American for the way that he kind. of kind of handled this too um he's. saying that uh that if you look at his.

early stuff he was a younger man at the. time and I think it was we should also. say egg qualifies as like none of this. excuses anything sure but but you know. look at the whole the whole picture of. the person um if you look at his earlier. stuff or his his worst most racist stuff. is when he was youngest yeah and his. most Progressive stuff that everybody. knows and loves is Dr Seuss is when the. world was kind of changing too not like. in 1989 he was like I'm going to deliver. I'm going to serve up a good old racist.

cartoon right exactly it's not like he. invented sea monkeys or something like. that right um so he kind of progressed. with the world and not only did he. progress with the world and kind of. change his views to to take on much more. Progressive stuff um themes like um like. uh bigotry with the snitches yeah is. about discriminating against people and. just how ridiculous that is how people. are actually people um a lot of people. point to Horton here's a Who as a bit of. a mopa for uh his treatment of the.

Japanese prior to World War II and. during World War II um The Lorax is. obviously pro- environmentalism yeah um. he fully changed one of his books. altogether an earlier version of uh and. I and I think I saw it on mberry Street. yeah it had the word in there. it was worse than chinan and he he. changed that to Chinese person right. like in the publication of the book for. future printings right um so he he.

definitely um evolved his his Works. evolved he never came out and publicly. said hey I'm really sorry about all the. racist stuff that I did earlier yeah. um by the time he died in 1990 I think. that that really wasn't the way that the. the world was turning at the time but he. he does seem to have evolved and changed. with the times and and did go back and. revive by some stuff that had crept into. his his uh work yeah and this has um.

come to light uh more prominently in the. past few years because uh there have. been like some uh book festivals and. children's literature festivals that. have either been boycotted or where. they've sort of tried to uh make him a. little less prominent right uh The Cat. in the Hat uh I think was used um wasn't. it like an an official read Across. America right he was the mascot for it. yeah and did they they officially remov. The Cat in the Hat I think they've. backed a little bit away from from The.

Cat in the Hat as a mascot if not. entirely and I think that they've kind. of like Dr Seuss's books are not like. the focal point of the read Across. America campaign like they were right uh. and then last year uh melenia Trump made. the news when she gifted a library some. Dr Seuss books and the librarian refused. that gift and said they are steeped in. racist propaganda caricatures and. harmful stereotypes I I don't know that. that all is necessarily true is it yeah. you know I I I think that might have.

been a little too harsh well I mean it. if it's if I'm wrong I want to know the. only thing that I've seen that could be. pointed to in his work like his books. was the was the reference and and. drawing of the Chinese guy yeah um in. his first book and I think I saw it on. mberry street I didn't see anything else. I saw some reference that maybe the Cat. in the Hat was supposed to be blackf but. I I saw that one place right and nowhere. else it seemed to be his earlier work.

not his children's books and I didn't. see any racist propaganda that had that. was hidden in the books if anything the. books that you would give a library I. didn't know I don't know what title she. gave would have been the more. Progressive stuff yes she didn't go. there and say here look here's the old. Jackal Lantern here's the really dirty. stuff College Humor racist cartoons um. and yeah to say that his work was. steeped in racist propaganda when. talking about the children's books is I.

I agree it's not accurate right what I'm. what I'm trying to figure out is is that. librarian hip to something we don't know. about right or or not I'm very curious. to know like if we didn't dig quite deep. enough I'm a little surprised because. you know us yeah but um I want to know. if we're missing something there yeah. for sure um I found an article where. they were just asking a lot of. professionals um in children's. literature what they thought about all. this cuz I'm a dummy you know I don't. know how to figure this stuff out on my. own uh and an Neely she's a professor of.

children's lit at Vanderbilt uh said. this uh just as every author illustrator. is I think Theodore geel was a product. of his time and we should not judge him. by today's standards but we must. evaluate his books that we decide to. share with children using today's. standards that is a really great Point. yeah we cannot wallow in our own. Nostalgia when we make choices for the. books we share with young children. there's simply too many outstanding. books available well especially also if. the books that we're raising our kids on. it's new to them if it's if it is. steeped in racist propaganda that we're.

not realizing we're sharing or. perpetuating then yeah that shouldn't be. the case and Ed makes the great point. that in the 1920s and 30s it was the. exceptional American who broke out of. that mold right and was very. Progressive uh and I wish he would have. been one of those but he wasn't yeah and. I think that's one of the reasons why. it's there's such a cognitive dissonance. when you find the stuff out is because. that's what you think of Dr Seuss based. on his work yeah that like he would be.

that kind of guy but he was human his. work is larger than him right is I think. what it is and that's the case with just. about everything it seems like yeah I. mean I don't want this to Tain your. reading of How the Grinch Stole. Christmas this year although um another. thing that he was called out on once was. his um there was no female protagonists. in any of his books either again a. product of the time yeah he was a man. writing about little male characters but. he went and created a daisy headed Maisy.

after that right so um he so again his. books became more Progressive further on. in his career and he handled things like. um segregation and discrimination like. with the SNES um the butter battle book. was a clear like glaring allegory for. the Cold War in the mutual assured. destruction arms race a kind of a. haunting book that ends without any. resolution with both sides the ukes and. the zukes I think um with their bombs.

pointed at one another and it doesn't. it's not like and they lived happily. ever after it's like what's going to. happen yeah and then uh his last book. that he wrote and published while he was. alive was oh the Places You'll Go Right. which I had no idea was published in. 1990 did you I didn't know anything. about it so it it was not it was his. last book that was published while he's. alive M it's also his top selling book. so some of these other books have been. around for decades longer than other the.

Places You'll Go but all the Places. You'll Go is his top selling book. because it's given to grads uh Every. Spring there's a new batch of graduates. yeah who get all the Places You'll Go as. a gift and like 10 million copies have. been sold CU it's about like uh your. your future and what awaits you is that. deal yeah just like doing things and. taking risks and like trying stuff and. you can do it and it'll be hard and. you're going to run into to problems but. you know you you're you're a good person. and you're going to make good choices.

and I have a story about this oh yeah so. last night um I was talking to Yumi and. I was like just out of nowhere I was. like did you know that oh the place. you'll go was only published in 1990 but. it's Dr Seuss's greatest selling book. and she just looked at me kind of like a. little flabbergasted like why would you. say that I was like oh we're doing a Dr. Seuss episode tomorrow and she's like. that's really weird I'll be right back. and she went into our bedroom and came. came back out with a copy of all the. Places You'll Go and said this has been. under your pillow she said I was going.

to give this to you tomorrow for the. last episode of the end of the world oh. wow but I just happened to bring it up. the day before Isn't that cool crazy. yeah I thought that was really. surprising man how things work out but I. read it as recently as last night I'm. like this is an amazing even for Seuss. it's an amazing book like an article I. read said that somebody some somebody. said like you can tell that he knew this. was the last book that that was going to. be published while he was alive that he. wanted this to be his his swan song. interesting yeah I uh I would not be.

surprised talking about his a more. Progressive views and sort of catching. up with the time if either Helen Andor. Audrey as the women behind the man were. weren't helping him along in that. respect sure and saying like hey get. with it oh oh uh like for changing his. views maybe I thought that as well I. could totally see that yeah because if. you think about it Helen Palmer came in. into his life um yeah yeah I I could see.

her having that influence on him yeah. mhm he passed away uh finally of cancer. in September 24th 1991 87 and I remember. this because that was a rough week uh I. was in college and he and Miles Davis. died about five or six days apart oh. really and I just remember being like. man this is this is one of those tough. ones yeah for dudes my age yep who were. Bop and children's book readers at the. same time I've got one last thing for.

you about Dr Seuss do you have anything. else I got one more thing too you first. okay I'll go first he was a voracious. chain smoker oh interesting so much so. that even back in like the 50s and 60s. he knew he needed to lay off sometimes. so when he needed to lay off of smoking. he would um take up he would take up a. corn cob pipe that he kept turnup seeds. in oh and anytime he wanted to smoke. rather than light it he would put a. water dropper in there and then when the. turnup seeds started to sprout he would. gr go back to.

cigarettes what yes I don't fully. understand that he would start a little. seed pod corn Cod pipe with turnup seeds. and then rather than light it he would. just put a seed dropper in puff on it. but nothing was going on it was all just. mental oral fixation and then after. about 3 days of doing this the seeds. would would Sprout germinate and he'd be. like okay I can go back to cigarettes. now huh so he' take about three days off. of cigarettes and he used the crop of. turnup greens as his his indicator I.

thought you going to say that that went. on to feed like the children in poor. neighborhoods or. something who hate turnips kids don't. eat turnips turnup are great uh I agree. I'm a I'm a root vegetable man myself. so my last thing in 2007 the federal. judge uh received a hard-boiled egg in. the mail from an inmate in prison. protesting his diet in prison and the. federal uh the federal judge rendered a.

decision and apparently it was worked up. the ladder I can't remember even what it. was about but he rendered a decision. thusly I do not like eggs in the file. this is Judge James Mirad I do not like. them in any style I will not take them. fried or boiled I will not take them. poached or broiled I will not take them. soft or scrambled despite an argument. well rambled no fan I am of the egg at. hand destroy that egg today today today. I say without delay huh and they threw.

him out of court and fired him right. because he was drunk yeah no I don't. know um wow I wonder what came out of. that I don't know and it and it gave. very little information about what the. case was even on I know like the guy's. like no really this is a serious. complaint please you're focusing on the. wrong thing someone help me oh goodness. uh if you want to know more about Dr SU. go research it make your own decisions. about the man the work all that stuff.

okay agreed uh and since I said that. it's time for listener mail no this is. our last show of the year so no listener. mail it's just our time of the year to. thank everyone here in year is this the. end of 10 years yes or it's sort of in. the middle April is the beginning and. end of a year right but the end of our. calendar year and we just thank everyone. for hanging in for this long with us. yeah it's amazing that we're still. allowed to do this job yeah hang in. there it'll pay off eventually and uh.

we're going to keep at it forever. forever and on a personal note a very. happy birthday to my dear sweet wife. Yumi happy birthday Yumi happy birthday. Yumi uh and thank you guys for being. with us for yet another year and we'll. see you next year. everybody stuff you should know is a. production of iHeart radio for more. podcasts ihart radio visit the iHeart. Radio app Apple podcast or wherever you. listen to your favorite. [Music].

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