Selects: Blacksmiths? You got that right! | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW

Hi guys, it's Josh and for this week's. select I'm going with our 2020 episode. on blacksmiths. Uh, growing up there wasn't a lot of. smithing going on around me. [music]. Pretty much zero smithing actually. So, I wasn't very familiar with this topic, but I found very quickly that I really. enjoyed researching it and talking about. it too. And I came to admire all the. blacksmiths on the videos that I. watched. It's just kind of mesmerizing.

And if you think about it, there aren't. many things that people do today that. are essentially unchanged over the last. few thousand years, which is pretty. cool. So, I [music] hope you like. listening to this one as much as I liked. researching it. Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a. production of iHeart Radio. >> [music].

>> Hey and welcome to the podcast. I'm. [music] Josh Clark and there's Charles. W. Chuck Bryan over there and Jerry's. out there somewhere and this is [music]. stuff you should know. >> Did I tell you about my new hobby that. started yesterday? >> I'll bet I can guess. >> Watching blacksmithing videos. >> Yeah, I was going to say the same thing, man. Like um I don't have any desire to. blacksmith myself. >> Nope. >> I just like watching these videos. There's something really amazing about. them. >> Yeah, there's one uh I don't know if you. watched it. It's on YouTube. It's called.

Blacksmithing: Forging a Bearded Axe. >> No, I didn't see that one. >> Oh god. >> What? >> It just reminds me of the uh the sort of. the lulling of that show, how it's made. But I watched this video and and most of. them have some sped up stuff too cuz. blacksmithing takes so long. >> Yeah. >> That a 30 minute video, I mean half of. it is in fast motion. So, it just goes. to show you and it's edited. >> and they always do they always put it to. yakity sex. [laughter].

>> But it's just crazy though when you see. how long it takes. >> to make this one axe and then you think. about. >> outfitting armies. >> Yeah. >> It it just feels like was every other. person a blacksmith and did they just do. that 247? >> Yeah. I get the impression there was a. Walt Whitman poem about blacksmiths and. he was basically like they were the most. important people in any community. Everybody loved them. They owed no one. anything because they never had any.

debts because they were so vital that. anything they did probably was worth 10. times what anybody else could do for. them. Um and they seem to have been. pretty amazing people on the whole. >> Yeah. I mean, and we'll talk about this. more, but when you think about just. nails. >> Yeah. and how many nails built this. country and the world, >> right? >> Those nails had to be forged. >> Yeah. When you watch some of these. blacksmith videos and like you're. saying, when you do see how long it. takes to just make an average thing that.

you would like buy in a second these. days, it really gives you an. appreciation for just what a sea change. the industrial revolution was. >> Yeah. Amazing. >> To where this was automated and and made. like converted to mass production. And. it just could have never happened. before. And it didn't happen before, but. it was up to the lone blacksmith to to. equip their entire com communities with. all this stuff. It's pretty cool. >> So, are we going to do. blacksmith history first or the metal.

history first? >> Um, we'll do blacksmith history first, I. think. >> Okay. I guess we got to look at the. name. Uh because if you uh if you look. at other smiths, >> they were all a little more specific. They were called bronze smiths. Um. blacksmiths are not called iron smiths. >> No. >> Even though they work with iron and most. of the other smiths were named for the. metal that they work with. >> Silver smith. That's a good one. >> Yeah. Oh god. Good silver smith. >> Sure. >> It's worth their weight. And it's gold. >> Silver. [laughter] Don't bring up gold.

to those guys. >> Oh no. No. Uh but black comes from well. we're not positive but uh one. explanation is blacksmith comes from the. hammer scale or these scales. If you're. watching these videos you'll see when. they're hammering this stuff these. little tiny chunky uh thin not chunky. actually just little chunks of thin. scales are falling off. Yeah. >> every time they hammer it. That's the. hammer scale. >> And it is black and your hands get all. black and your face gets black or it. might have just been because iron is. black. >> typically. Yeah. It's it's pretty dark.

gets dark enough, especially rowd iron, it's it tends to be black. So, that's. why they think one of those two reasons. is where um blacksmith came from. And. the the name Smith itself, we actually. talk about this in our book that's. coming out, you know, um in the episode. on keeping up with the Joneses. >> Oh, that's right. >> We talked about um. >> You mean the chapter? >> Yeah. Yeah. The chapter [laughter]. keeping um in our book, we talk about. how Keeping Up with the Joneses could. have very easily been keeping up with. the Smiths. um because the two names are.

so prevalent and in fact Smith is the. most prevalent name in the United States. and it's all derived from blacksmiths. and just how many blacksmiths there were. because every community needed one. Um. and then if you were in a large enough. community, you had multiple blacksmiths. all working because one blacksmith had. to do all this work to supply this one. community with all this stuff. Um and. they could only keep up with a certain. size community, you know. >> Yeah. And uh if you had a on-site thing.

that you were doing, you had a. blacksmith with you. If you were out at. war in battle, you had blacksmiths there. because not only do they uh create these. weapons and the armor, but they have to. fix stuff, you know, after a big long. day of battle, you go in and trade in. your sword and say, "Fix this thing.". >> Yeah. >> And those smithies got to be working. round the clock. >> Yeah. And they have like apprentices and. help and all that kind of stuff. But but. yeah, I mean like the you get the. impression that the the community could.

come to a standstill when the the. blacksmith was sick for a week or. something. >> Yeah. And there were blacksmiths doing. all kinds of work all over the place. So. many that they eventually um and this. makes sense would become a little more. specialized. >> And horses were a big deal back then. We. still love horses today, but back then. they did a lot more for humanity. They. just look pretty and run around in. fields now, >> right? Uh, so they had to make. horseshoes and it was a very specialized. set of equipment for making horseshoes. as opposed to just regular. blacksmithing. So that was a very busy.

job. They were called friers. >> Mhm. >> And even when blacksmithing as a whole. kind of went away, there were still. friers working because it's not like a. shoe store where one size fits all. Well, shoe stores aren't one size fits. all, but Right. >> It's very specific to your foot size or. your hoof size as a horse. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So, you can't just throw any old shoe. that's close enough on there. You got to. make them uh all cart basically made to. order. I think in the fashion world, what's that called? Uh.

>> prede. >> Bespoke. >> Oh, yeah. That's the opposite of. predaporte. [laughter]. >> And so, friers continued to work for. years and years and years. And I think. there are people that still do frier. work today, aren't they? >> Sure. Sure. Just to show off, I'm sure. But that I guess you kind of spoiled the. ending. Blacksmiths aren't really around. much today because of of. industrialization, but they were. >> They're around though. They're in. Brooklyn, New York. I guarantee it. >> Yeah, they are. For about 2,000 years, they were extraordinarily important to.

society. Um, but, you know, society was. around for for a very long time before. blacksmiths came around. So, there's. this this really important window in the. historical development of of human. society that blacksmiths, you know, existed in. Um, prior to that, you know, we had tools, but they were mostly made. of stone. Uh, and then at some point. somebody said, "Hey, if you put tin and. copper together, you can come up with a. stuff called bronze." Boom. >> And it's pretty great. You can make some.

pretty neat things with it. And one of. the things about bronze is that it has a. fairly low melting point. something like. um 1742. degrees Fahrenheit, 950 degrees C, which. you could get a a hot campfire to that. that temperature to melt melt into. molten liquid, uh bronze, which means. that you can create casts and molds and. you can pour that molten bronze into it. and as it cools, you've got a handy.

sword that you can make over and over. and over again. So bronze fulfilled this. purpose for tools for many thousands of. years. So much so that um and and these. metals were so important that we go back. and and call these historical ages by. the name of the metal tools that were. being produced. So you got the bronze. age and then that was eventually. followed by the Iron Age. And one thing. that stuck out to me, Chuck, I hadn't. realized before. >> is that um you think of history as. progressing, you know, constantly. Yeah.

But the Bronze Age, even though it was. followed by the Iron Age, the Iron Age. marked a period of cultural decline. where the Bronze Age, which had come. previously, was a a a period of cultural. blossoming. But for the first several. centuries of the Iron Age, it was a step. backwards. A lot of the classical or. antiquity societies kind of crumbled at. about the same time. They think possibly. because of um climate change or mass. droughts and starvation. Kind of like. the Maya. Yeah. So, it's not like the.

iron caused that, but iron, like really. good bronze is probably superior to iron. in a lot of ways. I think iron is a. little softer. Um, it might rust a. little quicker. >> It depends on what kind of iron you have. for sure, >> right? But the iron that they were using. basically they started using and you. know there's not like a demarcation line. then there is some overlap and no one. knows exactly when the big switch. happened but. >> it was cheaper and it was more readily. available than bronze was so they just.

started using iron basically and it. surpassed bronze. >> Yeah. The Greeks pin a a semi- mythical. group called the Chalabes who supposedly. were absorbed by the Hittites in. Anatolia and Turkey and that they were. the ones who figured out how to mine. iron because originally there was iron. stuff like King Tut was found with a. dagger made of iron and it would have. been even more highly prized than. anything made of gold in his entire tomb.

because iron was so rare at that time. Yeah. >> So you had to find a meteorite above. ground. >> to find your deposit of iron. So making. a dagger out of that would have been. that would have been a very special. dagger. And then eventually they say the. calabes figured out no there's actually. iron like in rock in the earth. And. people started figuring out that you. could take that rock and heat it to some.

pretty high temperatures considering and. then hammer it and you can hammer the. the other stuff out, the ore out or. hammer the iron from the ore and you. have something approaching what what you. would consider iron, something called. bloom. >> Yeah. So they they just couldn't get the. fire hot enough basically at first to. get to the iron point, >> right? But they could make it hot enough. to get to the bloom and they would put. it in an oven known as a bloomer and it. would kind of just roast out those. impurities. >> Um, it had iron, it had slag, which is. sort of a glass-like byproduct that you.

you know, it's so funny that you can. just hammer this stuff out. >> Uh, but Bloom would eventually, [clears throat]. >> uh, when they, I mean, it worked okay. You could heat it up, you could hammer. it, and it would get a lot of the slag. out. And it was it was useful enough for. tools. But when the blast furnace came. around, when you really got larger. furnaces and hotter fires that. incorporated bellows to really get that. oxygen in there. >> and get it super super hot, that. eventually allowed them to uh get that.

ore to pig iron. And pig iron was a. pretty big advancement because from pig. iron you could hammer that slag out to. eventually get to rot iron, >> right? Um, I want to give a shout out to. Harold the Smith, H A R A L D. Uh, he. wrote an intro to iron smelting that. talks all about making bloom himself. with pictures. It's pretty cool. It's. worth checking out for sure. >> And the Grabster helped us with this. one, right? >> Yeah, big time. Thank you, Grabster. Um. but with pig iron that was like a it was.

like you said like a pretty big change. in that like you could suddenly make. much pure iron because we had a much. hotter um furnace that we were working. with. And the thing about pig iron is in. in very much the same way as bloom, you've got to hammer out those. impurities. And so to make pig iron uh. into rod iron, you would take this pig. iron, which is pretty impure, heat it up. and hammer it with a sledgehammer over. and over again. heat it, hammer it, heat. it, hammer it. Very much the same.

process as bloom, but just at higher. temperatures and producing a much pure. iron. And then eventually you would have. raw iron. Um, and they say that um they. they figured out how to use water. hammers, like water powered hammers. >> Yeah. >> In part um because of the plague of the. 13th century, it killed so many people. that they didn't have the human power. any longer that they needed to hammer. pig iron. So it it made people devise um. water hammers. >> Yeah. Water hammers, steam hammers. Um.

you know, if you look at these videos. today, these these people in their in. their shops and their sheds that they. have behind their house. >> Mhm. >> have uh it looks like hydraulics, I. guess. >> Sure. >> That are pounding this stuff. And at. first when I saw that, I was. disappointed. I was like, "Oh, man." But. that's just the big initial work. Like. there's still tons of hammer work by. hand. Um because there are many many. there's a lot more to it than that. initial hammering. >> right. >> to get to the rod iron stage. But I was.

at first I was kind of like, "Oh man, what they don't use they don't like. swing a hammer anymore, >> right?" No, no, no. There there's. >> smart. They don't need to swing a. hammer, >> right? It's called work smarter, not. harder. But there are traditionalists. who are like, "No, you I want to use a. hammer." Um, but so the the different. types of irons that that humans have. come up with over the over the ages, and. this is a really important point I think. we should point out here, Chuck, like. the blacksmithing. um, and all of the information and.

knowledge and like ways of working with. different types of iron, different. techniques, and actually coming up with. different types of iron. All of that. started with those people who figured. out that you could take rock from the. earth and hammer the iron out of it. >> Yeah. and just more and more people over. the ages as it spread and and continued. to be around for hundreds and then. thousands of years um all the people. working with with metal contributed to. that body of knowledge. And so that's I. think one of the things that's so. appealing about blacksmithing is that it.

is a genuine human technology. >> that was created by humanity. you know, not just like a couple of. people who had a really good idea. It. was this this group of humans, countless. humans, all working together over. thousands of years contributing to to. one another's knowledge to create this. body of knowledge that I think that's. what makes it so neat to me. >> So cool. And and like such a brute. >> uh way of doing it, you know, those the.

finesse comes in for sure. And maybe. that's what I like about it is both like. it's swinging the heavy hammer, but it's. also doing this really beautiful finesse. work later on in the project, >> right? >> Really cool. >> Yeah. >> So, uh, if we're going to Well, maybe. let's take a break and then talk about. the types of iron. How about that? >> Let's. [music].

All. >> [music]. [music]. [singing]. >> right, we promise you talk of iron. types. There's iron maiden. >> Sure. There's um take your iron. supplement. >> That's right. >> Uh what else? There's really just iron.

maiden. >> Yeah, I guess so. >> That's all. That's all you need to know. Uh iron types, they're based on the. carbon content of the iron. So, if you. hear rod iron, you might just think. that's like the the cool thing that your. your stair uh case spindles are made out. of. >> They are not made of rod iron. >> They aren't made out of rod iron. anymore. At least they used to be back. in the day. >> Yeah. >> But this is also called bar iron. It's. about 8 I'm sorry. 08% or less uh. carbon. And this is sort of from what I.

saw um back in the day just the main. iron that they would mainly use for the. most part. >> The row iron. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Um, and the difference, the big. difference between row iron and steel is. that rod iron has um silicates in it. that kind of ends up as like these. fibrous filaments that get hammered into. order basically by the blacksmith um.

from pig iron which which gives it a. certain structure. With steel, steel um. like you said all types of iron are. basically based on their carbon content. Steel has a much higher carbon content. than raw iron does and so it doesn't. need to be hammered like raw iron does. because it doesn't have these iron. silicates that need to be arranged just. so or else it'll make it brittle. Um. instead because of this carbon um in it. forms this kind of crystalline structure. in the iron that makes it hard and.

durable um way way harder and more. durable than raw iron. The problem is is. because of that that durability and the. strength and hardness um it makes it. more difficult for a blacksmith to work. with down the line than it does row. iron. But it's also a much more. effective say battle axe than a row iron. battle axe. >> Yeah. And like you said, it's not what. we use on our staircase isn't rot iron. these days. It's not rot iron and the. production of that in like a big way. went out in you know the 20 20th century.

pretty much altogether. >> went out with disco. Oh gosh, I wish it. late lasted until the 70s. >> So, one thing we should say also to. Chuck is we tend to think of steel as. like a modern invention. Steel was. perfected in in the modern times. It was. like basically the thing that kicked off. the industrial revolution if I remember. from our Robert Barons episode. >> But that's not to say that people. weren't experimenting with steel long. before that. It it was just the. scientific understanding of it was.

lacking. Instead, that was replaced by. an intuitive understanding among. blacksmiths of, you know, what fuel did. what to steel, what to iron to make it. stronger. They weren't saying like, "Oh, if I use charcoal or coke, it's going to. make this a um a better steel than say, you know, um coal or something like. that.". >> That's right. Uh then you've also got. cast iron. If you have a a nice cast. iron collection in your kitchen, it's. going to be 2% carbon or more. Uh it's.

very brittle, so you're not going to. hammer cast iron. No. >> Uh it is formed into shape by casting. it. That's why it's called cast iron. And use a mold while it's molten and. poured in there. And it's a great thing. to cook with. >> Yeah. And we would have never been able. to make anything out of cast iron until. those those bellows were introduced to. the forge to to really bring that. temperature up because iron has a very. high melting point. >> Yeah. If you're going to pour it, it's. got to be super super hot. And we'll get. to these temperatures and the different. kinds of hot later on, which is very. interesting stuff. >> Yeah. So, we've got like the blacksmiths.

are are working with this. They're. figuring out that if you add like carbon. or if you do this, like if you if you um. heat the the iron to a certain. temperature, um it's and and then take. it off and hammer it and then let it. cool on its own, it's going to form one. type of of finished product. If you um. do something was called quenching it, which is cooling it down in a bucket of. water and usually mineral oil these. days, it's going to cool differently. So, its structure is going to form. differently. Um and again, they didn't.

they were passing this knowledge on, but. they weren't using terms necessarily. that we were using. What's interesting. to me is we use terms that they came up. with like quenching and slag and scale. and that kind of stuff. Like those are. all still very much around and and make. sense still even after having made the. transition to industrialization. They. still use words very much like that if. not those same words. >> Now do you mean quenching as in uh how a. human might quench their own thirst? >> Um kind of kind of but rather than.

turning up a bucket of water and mineral. oil, you would plunge the iron the hot. iron into that bucket of mineral oil and. water. >> That's right. Very cool stuff. Should we. talk? >> Were you making a a joke that I just. missed a reference? >> No. >> Okay. >> No, I didn't know. I didn't know if you. were saying the etmology of the word. quench was from smithing. >> Oh, maybe. >> And that when we quench our thirst, it's. taken from that. >> Maybe. It's possible. >> All right. No, I mean smite. They think.

that the word smite and smith are from. the same word, >> right? Because smite means very biblical. meaning or not meaning but they use a. lot in Bible uh times to to hit. something, right? >> Or Yeah. to strike it to to to smite. something. >> That's right. That's what a smith does. >> Should we talk about tools? >> I think so. One of the cool things about. blacksmiths is that they when you get. good, you just start making your own. tools. >> Oh man, >> isn't that neat? >> Tools to make tools. >> Yep. >> You got to start somewhere though, though.

>> Event. >> Yeah. You got to lay down a little bit. of money first. But I saw I saw this one. blog post by a blacksmith who's like, "Look, if you're just starting out, just. you, you know, get the bare minimum. stuff, get some used things, see if you. like it first, and then eventually when. you get good, you can invest a little. money, then you can just start making. your own stuff, >> right?" Which is very cool. I did see. there was one YouTube video that was. like how to how to get going for less. than 100 bucks. >> Oh, I'll bet. Yeah. >> Some very basic stuff. >> Yep. >> So, uh, if you're going to be a smithy, you're going to need some things. It. might be less than $100 to start. You're.

going to need a forge, uh, which is the. heat. Um, there are different kinds. You. know, the the one that I saw the axe, this was sort of a, um, I don't know if. it's old timey, but it was actually. using coal, and that's very appealing to. the eye if you're watching on YouTube. It seems like the backyard smithy these. days uses a a gas powered uh, oven, a. gas powered forge. >> Were they using coal or charcoal? Cuz. there's a big difference. >> It was coal. >> Okay. I didn't know much about charcoal.

until this. We'll talk about it later. >> But the it seems like these days the gas. powered Yeah. >> uh forge is kind of what you use. They're not very big. It's sort of like. um a a double size of a bread box. because when you're making something, you're not making. >> you're not building a car out of iron. You're making a tool. You're making a a. dagger or an axe head. Like they're all. kind of small. >> Something you can just sort of stick in. there. >> Um you're going to have your anvil. very. key, very key piece.

>> Yeah. >> Uh you're going to have a lot of other. tools um for like the the more finesse. work um grinders and files and stuff. like that. And you're going to have a. nice collection of hammers, of course. >> Yeah, you definitely there's different. hammers for different things. And like. we said, you know, hammering pig iron. into rod iron, people don't do that. these days. So, you're not using a. sledgehammer. And so, you're using like. a little more finesse and precision to. um to kind of strike what's called the. workpiece. whatever you're working on is. called the workpiece. Um, that's one. thing that really stood out to me.

watching some of these blacksmith videos. is like these guys do not miss. At least. if you're at the level where you're. doing close-ups of your work um on video. and posting them to YouTube, you don't. your your hammer is not missing. It's. going exactly where you want it to every. time, which is pretty cool, too. >> It is. But I also, and this is not to. knock the smithies, it seems like a bit. of a forgiving craft and art. >> Sure. um to where you can sort of like if. something didn't if you did strike and. it and it kind of did something you.

didn't quite like, you can change that, >> right? >> You can restrike it, you can reheat it. Um but I'm sure there's a lot of trial. and error involved when you're first. getting started, you know? >> For sure. Yeah, I'm I'm sure too. And. then, you know, as you keep advancing, you're figuring out new techniques and. all that kind of thing. But like you. were saying, the anvil is it's um it's. pretty neat. Like I didn't realize all. the different parts to it. Like anybody. who's seen a Wy Coyote cartoon can. recognize an anvil and tell you probably. draw one from memory and you'd probably. be pretty close and that's a pretty. accurate image of what an anvil does.

But all the little different details. from like the point on the front to the. feet of it. Um all of those serve this. um this kind of group of purposes that. uh come up pretty frequently in. blacksmithing. >> Yeah. So the anvil is super heavy. Uh it. is very hard. Obviously, you don't want. the anvil itself to be dented or start. falling apart when you're swinging this. heavy hammer on metal on this thing or. on iron. >> And uh so you also want it so it doesn't.

like just absorb the hammer blows too. So it's got to be the right amount of. hardness. Can't be breaking, can't be. shattering. >> Um you've got a horn on the front. You. talked about the pointy thing. >> Yeah, >> that's what's on the front of it. And. usually in all the anvils I saw when I. looked them up to buy one just to have, although they were way too expensive, um, it's got a little dip right before. the horn where the horn juts out. So the. horn is Yeah, the horn isn't exactly. level with the regular base of the.

anvil. It's down just a bit. And that. and it's not by accident. That's very. much uh. >> one of the big uses of the horn is that. little step down. Yeah, that's that's. one of the neat things about anvils is. like each little detail has a purpose, a. larger purpose that's hidden until you. understand what you're looking at or. what it does. >> What about those holes? >> There's like two holes in every anvil. pretty much. One's round and one's. square. And the round one is called a. pritchell hole and it is basically a. hole so that you can punch holes into um.

whatever workpiece you're working on. Um, I saw that if you're punching a. hole, you actually want to punch it on. the face of the anvil, which is the top. You punch it on one side almost all the. way through, flip it over, punch it on. the other side, almost all the way. through, and then you move it to the. pritchell hole, and then that's when you. you widen it to the shape you want. So, it just allows you to punch a hole all. the way through without harming the face. of your anvil. Really? >> Yeah. Um, >> that was one of my favorite parts of the. video I saw because that was where the.

axe head hole went where you would, you. know, put the axe handle. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. >> So, I was like, how you going to do. that? And just to see it happen in front. of your eyes. It was, it was pretty. awesome. >> And then what's the other hole? The. Hardy hole. >> Yeah. The Hardy hole is actually square. >> with the D. >> Yes. H A R D Y. >> Yeah. >> Uh, yes. It's It's not Harty because. it's very tough. Although it is very. tough. >> Sure. But it is a square hole, which. sounds counterintuitive, but it's not. And you can put tools in there that.

allow you like you might stick uh. something in there and then use that to. then bend the hot iron around to make. different bends and cuts and shapes and. things. >> Yeah. I saw this one tool in a couple of. different videos that fit into the Hardy. hole. The Hardy hole is almost like a. Dremel tool, right? So like there's all. these different things you can put in. that that square. >> Yeah. Yeah. hole that hold it in place. Um, but the difference between them is. what what tool is attached to that. square peg. >> That's right. >> Square peg. Square square peg.

>> That's [laughter] right. >> Um, and one of the ones that I saw. looked like a tuning fork. It's like two. rods that are very close together. And. you could put like um a a hot um. workpiece in between them and then, you. know, bend it so you can make like an S. hook. It's used for like very tight. creating very tight curves in the. workpiece. >> Yes. Very very cool. >> Yeah. >> Uh you got to have your tongs. Oh, and I. think we should have mentioned too, the. anvil. Um it's not it doesn't have a. sharp edge like the edge all the way. around the the main workbase of the.

anvil is a little bit round. >> Mhm. >> Uh because, you know, if you got. something super sharp and you're. hammering away, it's going to make. little creases in the iron. You don't. want that. >> I think the step is the sharpest edge of. the whole thing between the horn and the. face, the top of it. >> Yeah, I think that's where you need it. to be sharp. One other thing I saw that. um that I thought was really interesting. is um when you buy an anvil, you want to. actually fit it to a block of wood. And. traditionally people will use like a. good tree stump of wood that doesn't.

split very easily. And like, man, you. you fasten it to that wood, that tree. stump, and then you bury the tree stump. whenever you can about three feet into. the ground so that um the the anvil. becomes part of the tree stump becomes. part of the ground. Yeah. >> So, it distributes that extra energy. that that gets lost rather than back up. at you down into the ground where it's. absorbed, which I just find absolutely. fascinating. But you you make it so well. fastened to the stump that the stump and.

the anvil become basically one. >> Yeah. It's like the anvil is essentially. connected to the earth at that point. >> So nice. [laughter] This just man I just. keep thinking of Thor and Led Zeppelin. >> I know. All the things. >> JR Tolken. [laughter]. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Um the smithy you got to have those. tongs and these are not like grill tongs. that you have on your back porch. These. are those big thick metal uh iron. They. look like uh like like gussied up nail.

clippers almost. >> Mhm. >> And that's what you're going to use to. put stuff in the in the forge in that. fire and pull it out. Um it's funny here. Ed Ed says that pretty much no one wears. gloves. I didn't see that. I saw plenty. of videos with people wearing gloves. >> I saw both. >> and I saw some where they didn't. I. guess sometimes if you're working really. near the heat, you might want your. gloves on, but you might also want to. have the hand feel uh during that. finesse work. >> Yeah, because and I think it's worth. saying one more time that that that um.

forge where the fire is, it's I mean it. is very small. I saw as little as like a. 6x6 inch um like little area of. extraordinarily intense heat. So, it's a. small area of heat, but the heat that is. there is so hot, it can turn iron white. hot. So, yeah, you want to not get too. close to it. And even when you're. wearing tongs, it's smart to wear gloves. from what I saw. >> Yeah, we we never really talked much. about the fuel. Um I said these days. they they power it with gas mainly. Um. back in the day, back in the day, they.

would use charcoal. That was the first. thing. and charcoal. Apparently, if. you're, you know, going to be a Brooklyn. hipster, you want to work with charcoal. because that is the superior product and. the superior uh superior fuel. But it's. really messy. It's. >> very wasteful. >> It's very wasteful. It's expensive. A. lot of It takes a lot of wood to make uh. charcoal. >> So then coal comes rolling around and. there was a lot of coal and it was super. cheap. >> and they had to kind of rebuild their. forges. But coal, even though it has.

some impurities like sulfur and stuff in. there, they basically kind of made the. big switch to coal at a certain point in. time. >> Yeah. And and even better is if you can. get your hands on coke, um which is a. derivative of coal, just like charcoal. is a derivative of wood. It's just wood. with the sap and the water burned out. So, it's a really energy dense form of. it. Coke is the same thing with coal. It's got the impurities generally burned. out. So, it's an pure energy dense form. of of coal. Um, but both of them play a.

really important role in that they. produce really high temperatures, but. they also introduce a lot of that carbon. that gets absorbed into the iron at. those high temperatures, which produces. better, harder, stronger steel. >> Can you cook with that stuff? Can you. cook with coke? >> Cook with coke? I don't know. >> Like in a in a kamada like egg type. cooker. >> I don't know. That's one thing that I. saw in one of these blog posts about. different types of fuel. I think it was. like the no BS, but they spell out the. word BS, which I'm not going to say.

here. Got because they're they're. blacksmiths. Um they uh the the no BS. guide to different kinds of fuel. They. said one of the things to consider is. what kind of environmental impact is. your fuel having, >> right? >> So, that's a good question. If you're. like, I'm not sure I should be cooking. with this. Don't forget, you're going to. be in a small enclosed room that's your. blacksmith shop with that same stuff. And you probably have a pretty high. efficiency chimney, but some of it's. still coming back. So, that's definitely. a consideration to think of your own. health and the health of Mother Earth.

who is absorbing the blows from your. anvil. >> That's right. Uh you do need good. ventilation in your workshop. Uh eye. protection. Uh sometimes if you really. want to kick it old school, you might. have one of those leather aprons, like a. leather face. >> And then your quench. You know, we. talked about um quenching. It's called a. quench or a quench bucket. And that is. the bucket with the water and like you. said, sometimes mineral oil these days. where you'll plunge it in there just. like on TV and in movies when it makes. that great steamy sound and and the.

steam rises everywhere and they pull out. a beautiful battle axe or long sword. >> Yeah. Apparently the the So it's not. that surprising when you consider. samurai, but the Japanese were really. really good at creating highcarbon steel. blades. >> Yeah. >> And there was one guy named Goro Gro who. is like well widely considered the. greatest Japanese swordsmith of all time. from back in the 13th century. >> So he can throw together a katana. No. problem. >> No problem. [laughter].

>> Should we take a break? >> Yeah. >> All right. We're going to take a break. and talk a little bit about uh and get. quite a bit wrong probably about. techniques right after this. [music]. >> [music].

>> No. [music]. [singing]. [music]. >> All right, let let the parade of. misinformation begin. You know, the. these worry me more than other episodes. that we do when it's something very. technical and very specific. >> because these guys make battle axes. >> Yeah. And it's anytime it's a very. specific craft or something that you. haven't done, like we haven't done, >> right? >> You can research it and watch videos and.

do your best, but until you've actually. done it, you you can't get it 100%. right. So, >> I will say though, the videos help. tremendously. >> Oh, for sure. If like this is even. remotely interesting to you, and. hopefully it is if you're, you know, this many minutes, 33 minutes or so into. this podcast that that it is, go watch. some videos. There's a bunch of them on. there and I think you're going to be. like, "Oh, okay. I get what they were. saying now. Oh, that makes sense.". >> Forging a bearded battle uh forging a. bearded axe. That's the one. >> I've got one Black Bear Forge.

>> Oh, boy. >> This giant man with a giant beard and a. tiny little leather cap. >> And his name is Black Bear Forge. adorable. Yeah, [laughter] he he um the. video I watched is called Scarf theory. and Making Chain, which we'll talk about. that in a minute, but it's just amazing. >> So cool. And like you said, I don't want. to do it. >> I want to have a friend that does it. I. want to come over. >> to their house. >> Yep. >> And watch them do it. >> Like, let's see if we can get John. Hodgejman into it.

>> Yeah, Hodgman. >> Although he's got he's got very strong. forearms. He does freakishly like. Popeye. [laughter]. Uh, all right. So, here's some of the. techniques. What you're doing if you're. a smithy is you are shaping hot metal. That's what it comes down to. And this. is where the temperature of the metal. comes uh becomes really important um. because certain metals have to be at. certain temperatures to do certain. things. These days, like I said, if. you've got your your gas powered forge,

you can set that baby on whatever temp. exact temperature you want, and it's not. quite as um it's still very impressive, but back in the day when they were using. coal and charcoal, there was I feel like. much more intuition and trial and error. and actually looking at the color the. color temperature because the metal will. turn different colors at different. temperatures, >> right? So there's white hot, orange hot, yellow hot, red hot. Different kinds of. gradients of orange and yellow and white.

too. There's glowing white which is the. hottest. >> Those just those aren't just expressions. people say. >> No. And that's again that's the. animology etmology. >> of of um of blacksmith lingo basically. that has made it into. >> white. >> Yeah. Like. those abs of yours are white hot. [laughter and gasps]. >> Oh. Oh, wait. That was a different. different episode. >> Yeah, that's right. >> So, um, and but apparently blue white. hot is the the hottest of all, but you.

don't typically see that in. blacksmithing. White hot is is about as. hot as you get. >> And how hot is white hot? >> White hot, from what I saw, is 2550°. Fahrenheit, which is super high in. Celsius. >> Okay. Uh, yellow, I think, is just below. that. >> Yeah. >> And then you've got orange, >> right? And then you've got lameo red hot. which is. >> so lame. >> which is only 1,400 degrees. >> 760 C. >> You can't do anything with red hot.

That's actually not true. >> Some very like very limited stuff but at. that point the iron is is I mean it'll. probably bend a little bit. I saw um. good old Black Bear Forge was making. some chain with what looked to be red. hot um iron at the time. Okay. And he. was bending it pretty good. But I I mean. I'm not the best judge of color. He was. making chain. >> Yes. I'm just gonna I'm not gonna wait. any longer. This guy made a chain a. length of chain. >> Perfect. Each length was exactly the.

size of the last. >> Oh god. >> He was making them like in threes and. then connecting those threes to other. threes. And he was using the Chuck. Are. you Are you about to. >> So satisfying. >> climax or something? [laughter]. >> No, it's just so satisfying. It It. touches these uh parts of my body, you. know. It's not sexual at all. Right. >> You know what I'm saying? >> Oh, I know what you're saying. It's um. it's it's I know exactly what you mean. >> Although I haven't seen it. You never. know what might happen. >> Right. But this guy, so you know the. horn of the anvil, right?

>> Oh, do I? >> He would make like he would he would. bend the chain initially on kind of like. a thick about the middle part of the. horn and then he would bend it even. further moving it a little up the horn. And this guy just so expertly put it. exactly where he needed it to be. Um, I. think one of the things I like about. Black Bear Forge guy is that he doesn't. seem the least bit pretentious. >> I'm pretty sure he lives in Minnesota. Uh, he's he's not wearing his little. leather cap, ironically. Like he just he. seems very helpful making these videos. to help. Yeah, I think you might be.

right. And with a white beard. >> I think he [laughter] was born with a. white beard as well. Well, when you. watch this uh bearded axe thing, what. this guy does is he starts with a block. >> of iron and then eventually makes an axe. head. But he's hammering this thing out. He's using this little rolling tool and. hammering that as he's kind of rolling. it forward. And it's almost like it kind. of reminded me of baking, like the way. you would use a rolling pin to smooth. out dough. And then when it came time to.

actually make the the sharp part, I. guess what he was doing was forge. welding. And we're kind of jumping. around, but this is one of the. techniques. And it's also called fire. welding. And that's when you combine. different grades of iron and steel and. you're joining these things together and. multiple shapes together. I think that's. what was going on because what he did, he had this axe head and the the sharp. part he split. And I was like, well, dude, what kind of an axe is that? It's. crazy looking. I thought he messed up.

>> But then he put some other kind of metal. in between. >> and would use this. And from what I. gathered, it's uh. >> where is it? Flux. Is that what it is? >> Flux? Yeah, like sand. Did it look like. sand? >> Well, it was in a bottle and it looked. like a little sandy chemical. So, I. guess that's what it was. And he would. heat it up and then spray this stuff on. it and hammer it together. Heat it up. Spray some of this and hammer it until. that metal becomes one. And the really, >> you know, the super specific metal that. he needed for the sharp axe blade was.

melded with the rest of that iron. >> to where you couldn't even tell. It was. just like they became one with one. another. >> He was probably re reinforcing the axe. head with a stronger. um a stronger type of iron. So there's. slightly different carbon content. And. then the outside was a harder kind. So. it resisted surface um deformities, but. the interior stuff was was strength was. strong, so it resisted breaking. probably. But he was making these two.

One I saw Black Bear Forge do the same. thing with the chains. He was he was. using a scarf weld where you make um one. end angled and then you make the other. end that it's going to join to angled in. the opposite direction so they kind of. fit tightly together. and then he would. heat it up and hammer it together and it. just became one. But he used um flux as. well. And from what I could tell when. you use flux like sand or borax I think. is is something you can use um it.

prevents that joint from oxidizing which. makes it a stronger a stronger joint, a. stronger seam rather than kind of a. compromised seam. >> Yeah. Yeah. And it it was also. interesting to see how uh this guy would. >> sometimes that block was out for quite a. long time of hammering and shaping and. hammering and shaping. >> And then it looked like when he got into. the little more detailed work as it. became an axe head, >> he would he would put it in the fire. >> and he would turn around very quickly. and start hammering. You could tell he. wanted to do it very fast and he would.

hammer it for like 10 seconds and then. put it right back in the fire. >> Yeah. >> And then pull it out and hammer it. really fast for 10 seconds. So whatever. he was doing at that point required a. super super super hot piece of uh what. do you call it? Ground piece. >> Work piece. >> Work piece. [laughter]. >> Yeah. But I mean so most most. blacksmiths you'll notice in their shops. they set the forge and the anvil up. within just twisting distance. Oh yeah. Like you're standing in one place moving. from one to the other so that you can. lose as little heat as possible when you. transfer it out of the fire.

>> You don't walk across your shop. >> No. You don't stop and like make a. sandwich or anything. Uh there's also. drawing, which is uh drawing that metal. out into a longer, thinner shape. >> Uh you might be shaping something into a. rod or a block into a blade like I saw. And that's sort of um it's sort of. lengthening it without flattening it. out, >> right? >> Because you can also flatten it. That's. another thing that's called peeening. >> Yeah. Um there's also upsetting which is. the opposite of drawing where you.

shorten the length of iron or steel. right by hammering it. And that's what. happens when you make a nail. What you. want to talk about making nails here? >> Yeah. I mean we kind of mentioned. earlier, you know, the the foundation I. mean there were things that were built. with dovetail joints and corn cobs to. keep log logs together and. >> there were technologies like that. But. if you really want to talk about the. building of of the world, you got to.

talk about iron nails and how many. millions and tens and millions of iron. nails that were made in the world by. hand by people. >> Yeah. I mean, before industrialization, they were all made by hand. And it's. apparently harder to make them than you. would think. I watched a video by a. blacksmith named Nick Kimble on. Instructables. And I guess his brother. writes for Instructibles and interviewed. him and he's like a blacksmith at one of. the colonial model farms. Yeah,

>> I think maybe Mount Vernon. They didn't. say. Um, >> so he looks like it too. He looks like a. cool dude. Um, >> but he he showed how to make a nail and. he says he can make one a minute. And. this guy is an advanced blacksmith. Like. he has a job as a blacksmith. That's how. advanced this guy is in the 21st. century. and he can make he can make one. a minute. Apparently blacksmiths of your. could make 10 to a dozen of them a. minute.

>> Um, and it's very involved like it's you. would you actually have to make the tool. first to make to make the nails. So you. take an iron bar, flatten that, punch a. hole in it using your pitch hole and a. punch. And then you take um nail rod, little strips of of the iron that's. going to be nails. um it heat it up, um. hammer a shoulder into it on the edge of. the anvil so that there's like a it's. it's narrower at the in the for the bulk. of it and then up top it just kind of is.

a little wider and boxy and then you put. it into the hole of the tool that you. made and then you heat it up and you. hammer the head a bunch of times to. flatten it. That's all you have to do to. make one single nail. Yeah. And some. blacksmiths in the days of Y could make. a dozen of those in a minute. That's how. good they were at it. >> Unbelievable. >> I would have charged so much for nails. It would have been astronomical. [laughter]. I would have been like, "No, I will you. like let's make you some chain mail.

instead. What do you need nails for? Let's do something cool." And they'd. say, "You know, I need to build a second. story on my house." I'd be like, "All. right, it's going to cost you. >> the Josh nail.". >> Yeah. >> The Josh Clark special. >> because it would not be fun to make. nails for sure. >> No, but boy, they made a lot of them. Uh, they did. >> There are also some other techniques. There's bending. We've kind of already. talked about when you're creating uh. curves and things. If you've uh I. mentioned the the staircase. >> uh irons, how they're how they're.

twisted around. That is done with a. square bar, >> which is a bar with a square hole in it. And that's placed over a square rod of. hot iron. And then you turn that square. You basically sort of like that Dremel. you were talking about. You stick that. hot thing into the hole and you twist it. around and you create those little. twists. >> Yeah. And then every time it's a. blacksmith tradition, you say a voila. [laughter]. >> You got anything else? >> I don't have anything else. It's uh just.

I know we got stuff not quite right, but. hopefully the smithies hopefully our. enthusiasm won them over. >> Yeah, let's hope so. Um they're coming. our ignorance. >> Uh the and also there's like a ton that. we didn't talk about. It's a really I. mean this is a countless human thousands. of year long body of knowledge that we. just tried to do in 45 minutes. >> uh and failed at that. But um there. there's a lot to it. So, if you're. interested in it, go go check [music] it.

out. At the very least, go watch some. videos. And since I said go watch some. videos, everybody, it's time for. listener mail. All right, I'm going to call this. Olympic torture bearer. Okay. Hey guys, I was a torchbearer. for the Winter Olympics, and it was a. lot of fun. The amount of logistical. [music] coordination that went into it. was incredible. I was told 4 months in. advance when down to the minute I'd be. carrying the lit torch, and it wasn't. off by more than a few. Actually, a guy. came to our hotel with a bunch of toys, uh, vehicles, and action figures, and.

modeled exactly what would happen. That's so cool. Uh, I had to be reminded. by my handlers to ensure that I kept it. very [music] high. Um, high enough so as. to not light my hat on fire. Uh, the. torch is pretty light, but fairly. topheavy. I'm sure we were wearing. mittens to make it impossible for any of. us to make any finger gestures, even. accidentally, that could be seen by the. world on the live feed. Didn't even. think about that. >> Yeah. Uh, one term you didn't use that I. thought you'd appreciate, when one torch. bearer passes the flame to another, it's.

called [music] the torch kiss. Uh, we. went through training and practiced just. this part. Uh, on the street, we did a. little dance after we kissed and then I. and whoever just finished got back on. the bus. Uh, as you mentioned, a guy. took my torch and extinguished it right. afterward. And since it was still hot, [music] they stored it in a rack on the. bus. When we got back to the starting. point, they removed the fuel cell and. gave it back to me. >> and broke it in half. >> And that is from Matt Jones. We had a a. quite a nice little exchange about this. He said he did get it through work, but. he was not a sea level executive. Uh he.

won it through a drawing at his work. >> Oh, that's that's totally great. >> Yeah, >> that's great. He might as well have. gotten it from contributing to society, as [laughter] great as that is, man. I. got to thanks for that, Matt. Also, I. knew it was called The Kiss. I thought I. said it was the [music] kiss. And if I. left that out, that drives me crazy, man. when there's a fact that I know. that I failed to put into the [music]. podcast that somebody then comes and. says, "You left out this really awesome. fact." And I just drop to my knees like. the Liberty Mutual guy in the elevator.

and go, "No.". >> You know how much that bothers me when. that happens to me? >> How much? >> None. >> Man, it's like it'll ruin my week. My. week's just toast now thanks to Matt. >> There's the difference between you and. I. Well, if you want to ruin my week and. have a neutral effect on Chuck's [music]. week, maybe even make it more positive, um, you can email us, go ahead and, uh, type it out. After that, wrap it up. [music] After that, spank it on the. bottom and then send it off to. stuffodcast@ iheartradio.com.

Stuff you should know is a production of. iHeart Radio. For more podcasts, iHeart. Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, [music] Apple Podcasts, or wherever you. listen to your favorite shows.