Salsa: NOT THE DANCE | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW

[Music]. welcome to stuff you should know a. production of iHeart. Radio hey and welcome to the salsa cast. this is Josh I'm Chuck I'm tomato he's. onion Jerry's the chili here and you put. us together chop us up put us in a. blender squish us under your armpit let. us drip down the side of your chest into. a bowl and you've got stuff you should. know just two guys trying to recapture.

the. magic that's that's been irretrievably. lost. forever uh so anyway salsa right yeah. people like to say. salsa I'm glad somebody said that to get. it out of the way I feel like we would. have gotten in trouble had we not. actually said it yeah now we can just. move on yeah let's move on uh because. salsa of course what we're talking about. is the stuff that comes in a jar at the. grocery store that's loaded with high. fructose corn syrup that you put on to.

tortillas and shovel in your mouth M and. just as Mexicans have done for thousands. of years yes uh not always if you. there's plenty out there that aren't. loaded with uh high fruit GES corn syrup. but you know a lot of the big jar stuff. that you find in a little uh silver. caddy beside right beside the chips yes. a lot of that stuff is so yeah a lot of. the stuff in the jar has gotten good in. recent years and you can actually thank. the the I don't want to say cheap stuff.

the the more generic super American. versions yes for laying the groundwork. for those better versions to come sure. but what we're doing is just talking. about that that thing that you dip your. chip in that that we love that had a. that's still very popular but that got. very very famous in the late 80s and. 90s uh as sort of America's new favorite. condiment out selling ketchup very.

famously in. 1991 and then it overtook catsup in 1992. that's right and we're going to talk all. about salsa uh this is a a Dave ruse. joint and Dave helped us out with this. and he found. somebody I don't even know who this was. he just describes him as a Mexican. college student who who said watch. allegedly watching someone shovel salsa. with a tortilla chip is strange to. Mexicans like how an American would feel.

watching someone drink salad dressing. out of a bottle uh I do take issue a. little bit I get the point but I think. that would be an appropriate um thing to. say if we were just eating it out of the. jar like shoveling it like directly like. a drink into our. mouth you know what I mean I do but the. the point this guy's making and I was. being a troll earlier when I was saying. that it was authentic just like Mexicans. do.

you eating salsa with chips is. Thoroughly American yeah and if you go. to Mexico They don't serve chips and. salsa because maybe a better analogy. would be like if um you went to Mexico. and they. served. uh uh well chips and ketchup how about. that it's a very direct. analogy uh although I will say I have. been to some super great authentic. places in Mexico City that would give.

you the the house specialty salsa with. the large. handmade uh. tostadas MH and you know they're. handmade cuz they're all they're weird. irregularly shaped and you know they put. like five or six of those in a big. wooden bowl and you can kind of break. those apart and eat them with your salsa. I've seen that plenty of times yes had. you looked around at that restaurant in. Mexico City you would have noticed that. you were the only only one who was.

served that and it was because you were. wearing your American flag tank top not. true my friend it's on the menu Mexico. City is pretty great huh it's the best I. think we talked about it recently right. yeah we talked about it when I got home. and then since I went on that trip you. went on a trip and you had already been. there before anyway but yeah we got to. you know reminisce a bit together I. remember it was the brutalism episode. that we talked about my trip too yeah. probably it was great anyway yes Mexico.

City is wonderful if you can make it. down there or over there or up there you. should but should we talk about the. origins of salsa yeah because again. let's just let's just spell this out. salsa in Mexico is a condiment okay okay. I think that's pretty clear I just. wanted to make sure yes let's go on to. the origins that is the stuff you should. know away though what overstating. something five times just to get out the. hammer beat people over the head with it. I feel like that's the Josh from you. should know way at least well people are.

busy when they're listening so uh you. never know it might take that that third. or fourth mention they' be like well I. was washing dishes and I didn't even. hear until that last one you know thanks. Chuck that's very supportive of you I. was thinking you know something we could. do yeah is if we wanted to make sure. that somebody got the point we're trying. to make to make sure they're paying. attention we could just say something. like beep and then insert the the fact. that we're trying to get across so. really pay attention yeah that's a good.

point um so if you want to go back to. the origins of salsa uh you would have. to go back thousands of years in meso. Amer because in Central and South. America they really loved to grow. chilies and tomatoes and you put chilies. and tomatoes together you're going to. have some kind of a. salsa yeah I mean that's essentially the. basic ingredients for salsa you could. make those you can make a salsa with. just those two things you really could.

and people do some people do yeah. although over the years people have. added to it more and more but yeah as. far back as um about 9 10,000 years ago. people were making something similar to. salsa like we would recognize it as. salsa today um and it just kept getting. more and more and more advanced um and. more expansive right at a few thousand. years of tinkering something's going to. get a little more advanced and salsa is. no different yeah for sure um the first.

person that we found that has kind of. written about this was a Franciscan. priest named Bernardino D. sahagun I have no idea how to pronounce. that sahagan sahagan sa ha g n uh there. was a record uh he he wrote a lot about. the Aztec culture and uh specifically in. his Florentine codecs uh wrote about a. sauce in a food market or different. kinds of sauces in a food market and uh.

toian is probably not right either but. I'll just read through some of this as a. quote uh hot sauces sauces with juices. shredded food with chili with squash. seeds with tomatoes with smoked chili. with hot chili with yellow chili with. mild red chili sauce yellow chili sauce. hot chili sauce bird excrement sauce. sauce of smoked chili heated sauces bean. sauce toasted beans cooked beans. mushroom sauce you get the idea uh keep. going you have to finish okay why not. sauce of small squash sauce of large.

Tomatoes sauce of ordinary Tomatoes. sauce of various kinds of sour herbs. avocado sauce end quote shrimp creole. shrimp gumbo ex shrim sandwich what I. was thinking that's about that yeah so. he's talking about salsa. there yeah yeah very clearly um and. again this stuff had been around for. thousands of years and they they were. just selling it like it was nothing. because it was nothing because in Mexico. salsa is a condiment that's right right.

uh traditionally prepared um the Aztec. and still you'll see these today and in. fact I have one in my kitchen I think. you do too right yeah I also have a Masa. maker that you got me as well oh that's. right uh a Mah is a lava rock mortar and. pestle uh they're very very heavy if you. get like a real deal one um I can. recommend this as a as a gift like a. house warming gift to someone apartment. warming gift like sure you can spend.

like 50 to 70 bucks on like a really. really nice heavy duty real deal mochete. and it's a great gift for someone. because when you pull this thing out at. a dinner party and you're grinding the. either uh salsa uh together tableside or. if you're making some guacamole. tableside it's it's a really kind of. fancy fun thing to do not fancy but fun. it really warms whatever structure. you're trying to warm. agreed so uh the chili so.

tomato we need to make sure everybody. knows this the tomato is indigenous to. meso America right I think you kind of. intimated that earlier correct um same. with chilies and uh when the Colombian. Exchange began specifically when. Christopher Columbus tried chilies for. the first time he compared them to black. pepper because that was probably the. spiciest thing he'd ever tasted in his. life and in Spanish you call that.

pimento and so that's why in English we. call Chili's Peppers but really Chile is. a nola word I think CH Chile yeah and. then they switched the I to an E and. here we go yeah I mean I've never heard. the word pepper said by uh people from. Mexico maybe they do but I've always. just heard them called chilies sure uh. because you know Christopher Columbus. got wrong got another thing wrong that's.

crazy who' have. thought the word salsa was already a. word in Spanish it was a generic word. for sa um and I think it was a Spanish. priest in a dictionary published in. 1571 that actually put that in the. dictionary an Aztec style tomato chili. condiment listed as salsa in that 16th. century. dictionary case closed I think that's. that's taking a break time if you ask me.

oh sure let's do it you want to okay. [Music].

so um it's not like salsa was an. immediate hit over in Europe first of. all Christopher Columbus had misdirected. everybody and they thought it was. basically like black pepper um the. chilies I should say were um but the the. bigger problem was that people in Europe. and I swear we've talked about this. before people in Europe initially. thought Tomatoes were a deadly part of. the nightshade family yeah you did not. want to eat a tomato it was toxic at the. very Le potentially deadly combined with.

something that was kind of like black. pepper why would you ever want to eat. something like that but slowly but. surely about six almost seven the. 1700s a guy named Antonio latini became. the first person to write down a recipe. for what you would recognize as salsa. even though he called it Spanish style. tomato sauce yeah I guess he was Italian. and so they were just liking it to like. regular tomato sauce maybe I I think so.

because the the basis of it is pretty. much Tomatoes but there it has. everything else like you would want. chili peppers onions thyme which is I. guess a traditional ingredient found. outside of Mexico for salsa yeah but. combining the the hot chilies with the. Tomato I think he also threw in there. salt oil and. vinegar uh and at the very end of this. recipe a little gross but says it is a. very tasty sauce both for boiled dishes.

or anything. else right boiled dishes boiled bacon oh. God I love bacon do you remember that in. Better Off Dead uh no I don't remember. that his mom boiled boil the mom and. John QX mom boiled everything and at one. point she's serving bacon and it's. boiled in like this kind of weird light. green whitish color it's it's really. good part I remember her making a was a. weird part of that movie that everything.

she made was strange mhm french fries. yeah this good stuff so the other way. that the Columbian Exchange worked. obviously was uh things in Europe were. introduced to the new world and um all. of a sudden things like. um uh onion would come along or although. they did have Wild Onion which is. indigenous to North America but um. garlic cilantro believe it or not not. indigenous to North America cumin nuts. uh all these kind of unique vegetable.

oils and animal fats that comes Mexico's. way and they're like oh we know just how. to use this uh so thank you for. introducing us to it yeah it was weird. if you look around the internet you'll. see that that some people claim that. animal fats and vegetable oils are not. indigenous to meso America and of course. they are because there's animals walking. around that have fat and there's. vegetables there that have fat but. apparently did not make great use of.

this stuff like they didn't use fats. very often they usually charred stuff or. grilled it um or boiled it um they and. then they would add like salsa fat free. salsa as like the condiment to it um but. yeah I found that kind of mind-blowing. because if you stop and think about it. there's a lot of Mexican food like. actual authentic Mexican food that does. isn't fatty at all it's just kind of. charred with a sauce that has no fat to. it it's interes. I I just never thought about that yeah.

and you you said a key thing there too. which we should mention which is. fat-free that's one of the reasons salsa. became so big in the 80s and 90s because. that was during the the Golden Age of. everything must be fat free so salsa was. like you know it wasn't some uh some. some fatty condiment there there were no. fatty condiments really or were or were. there now that I'm thinking about it. chunky style fatty. cond oh. God so so uh now we're going to talk.

about a couple of other. sauces in uh that sounds like something. from like a future movie or something it. does um remember like the beer that just. it's white it's just all white can it. just says beer in like a thick black. font oh yeah they they had that in LA on. my first visit years ago yeah you got me. a can of it did I really did I send you. a can of that yeah so uh that's exactly. what that label would look like you're. exactly right generic uh we're going to. talk about a couple of things now that. are close to salsa but not um and that.

is mle and hot sauce uh we're not going. to spend too much time on this because I. think most people kind of know the. difference but I do the line can kind of. be blurred um I would say the main. difference in mole is that mole is um. it's it's basically always pure AIDS uh. it's not going to be it's never going to. be chunky uh kind of the same with hot. sauce but mole also usually has like I. mean if you got a good mole going you're. talking 15 20 up to 30 or more.

ingredients that's kind of what makes. mole a. mole yeah so you have a really. sophisticated layered tastes with mole. um that can be like it can be Tangy it. can also be kind of like weirdly raisiny. or mushroomy or something like that it's. it's it's it's different but as far as a. a a person walking around Mexico is. concerned that'd be like. um uh comparing um ketchup to gravy.

they're just different yes they both go. on your food but in different ways in. different contexts and different amounts. and gravy is probably not even a good. example but it's the best I can come up. with but salsa means sauce but mole is. sauce because as everyone who's listened. to this episode up to this point knows. salsa is a condiment not a sauce yeah so. you you would add it to the top of a. taco or a tostada whereas the mole it. would be like you know chicken mole.

typically has like the chicken. completely drenched in the sauce when it. hits the table right like the very. famous joke in Mexico you want some. chicken with that mle but then they say. that in. Spanish uh and the other thing is hot. sauce of course also different um hot. sauce meant to be um although there are. some super hot saas hot sauce is. generally only hot and meant to be you. know dabbed on a few drops at a time uh. and also not chunky and also uh usually.

has vinegar which you're not going to. find in a lot of salsa no not at all and. apparently um hot sauce itself is it. traces itself back to Massachusetts the. very beginning of the 19th century um. and that was where it came from but it. got pretty popular South of the Border. as well because it does involve chilies. of some in some former fashion usually. it's chili vinegar and salt are the. three. ingredients and there's some good stuff. out there but yeah it's not really salsa.

although as we'll see is it chips and. salsa time we're going to have some I. would love some after researching all. this which by the way hat tip to Dave. big thanks for helping us out with this. one big hat tip um no I say we hold off. on the chips and. salsa that was surprising because we. have to go uh we have to I mean chips. and salsa is an American thing like you. said so we got to go back to kind of. when this hit the states in a big way. mhm and anyone who knows the history of.

North America knows that uh a lot of the. United States used to be Mexican. territory uh Texas Arizona New Mexico. Utah Nevada California a lot of Colorado. uh was Mexico but once that uh was no. longer Mexico there were still a lot of. people living there uh Mexican. communities um Mexican culture Mexican. foods and so it should come as no. surprise that Texas and California and. New Mexico and Arizona places like that.

have always had and still continue to. have a thriving uh Mexican food scene. there and this was true back in the. 1920s and 30s when salsa kind of came on. the scene yeah and so the collision. between um often Anglo or other kind of. European. settlers um in this area colliding with. former Spanish settlers and Indigenous. people in the area um it it they kind of. came together to form like kind of a.

hybrid between Mexican and what would be. American Cuisine so things like texme or. Cali Mech or Southwest Mech was born. which is was originally at least. authentic Mexican dishes but kind of. toned down a little bit made a little. blander made a little more Yorkshire. pudding you know what I. mean yeah not as hot made for the. American palette uh I think Dave dug up. this recipe from 1934 in the LA times. for chil. salsa uh the name of the article was.

Delicacies from Mexico and even though. it said in the article the salsa is used. in many Spanish dishes I think it was. just a time when they were like Mexico. Spain what's the difference right when. iny much there's a pretty big difference. including an an ocean in between them. yeah and also the recipe included. parsley and flour yeah you just don't. see that in in many salsa dishes so it. was kind of Tex mexy for sure I think. even before TexMex really was a thing um.

but going back to salsa and the idea. that salsa I think I said the good stuff. in jars today was built on the shoulders. of the less good stuff of yester year. and you can kind of Trace that no shade. also by the way I hope I'm not coming. off that way I'm not throwing shade at. anybody like David Pace who innovated um. and really kind of introduced America to. salsa uh but at the same time made it uh. more palatable to his Market he took.

salsa and took it from a condiment which. it is in Mexico and made it into kind of. like a snack or an appetizer so a dip I. guess is a better way to put it yeah. David Pace was uh a Louisiana guy born. and raised uh his family was in the. Molasses business bottling molasses so. he had a background in in bottling and. jarring a food product uh went to World. War II settled down in San Antonio Texas. eventually where the Mexican food scene. is and. was and is robust uh you've been there.

right you've talked about the food there. with me I believe privately yeah oh yeah. definitely it's good stuff never been. there I got to do it um but he loved. that chili salsa uh that he would get. locally at different Mexican restaurants. MH and he like you said he he settled. down the taste a little bit uh made his. own um his own variety called called. Pace pante yeah pante is an adjective. meaning spicy or pungent if you notice.

if you look at the jar it doesn't say. Salu on there no uh it says picante. sauce mhm and the Tomato was the star. the Chile took a little bit of the back. seat and he had a goal to be what he. said was the hindes of salsa and. although he did well uh it would be his. son-in-law uh kit goldsbury who would. really kind of Kick That Brand to the. next. level yeah I mean think that's pretty. ambitious I want to be the the high sign. of salsa and it actually turned out that.

way but just yeah not under his watch uh. he retired and kit took over I think. about the late 70s sometime in the 70s. and at that same time there was a health. craze going through America that. translated like I think you said earlier. by the 80s into everything has to be fat. free yeah and salsa again is basically. by definition fat free so it was ready. made to step up and kind of take the. spotlight and Pace was very lucky that.

kit goldsbury was in charge because he I. guess knew a great opportunity when he. saw it and just pushed Pace into the. mainstream through a really clever um. ear wormy kind of advertising campaign. that people still say today you make me. say it sometimes when you say New York. City I mean you stopped and been like. you're not going to say it and that's. from like the like 1989 was when that. first ad came out yeah that's right and. in 1993 we got the famous line get a.

rope uh you go look this thing up on. YouTube it was this ad ran for 10 years. from 93 to 2003 mhm when they are uh one. of the camp Cowboy Camp guys is. chastising cookie the cook because he's. using salsa from New York City and they. all go New York City and an actor named. Ralph bonso bear Stedman uttered those. famous three words get a rope even.

though Dave did you notice he put get. the rope in here I did get the Rope I. got so mad at Dave did you send him an. email no but he's he's listening so I. just wanted to tell him this way jeez uh. but yeah Ralph bonso bear stemman was I. just want to shout him out because it's. an iconic commercial line it's kind of. up there with where's the beef yeah and. uh he's a guy where beef oh she passed. away too no no instead of where's the. beef beef where's a.

beef where's a beef where's a beef quote. I love it sorry Dave uh but Ralph was. from the Pacific Northwest seemed like a. really good guy did lots of local acting. and voice acting and uh he passed away. in 2014 and and left a very sweet family. behind so big shout out to uh Bonzo bear. so yeah so this this ad campaign New. York City it just it came at a perfect. time the product was perfect not only. were people trying to get like more.

fat-free and salsa was a great um great. alternative to everything else like. ketchup and stuff. um there people were also like trying. new tastes exotic ethnic tastes like. sure Mexican salsa chunky style oh yeah. was just. really you were really sophisticated if. you ate salsa not ketchup at a time in. like the late 80s yeah so it really it. just it everything just came came. together and so all of a sudden America.

just falls in love with salsa and still. today like even in hindsight I know this. sounds kind of. unnecessarily hysterical but I can't. believe that salsa ever outsold ketchup. it's it's mindboggling to me yeah like. that it was that popular and it stayed. pretty popular and like I was saying it. just kept getting better and better and. better to where the stuff that you buy. in jars of the grocery store today is. often pretty good really good yeah and. chances are uh your local grocery store. may even have like a like a housemade.

version that they sell in in like the. little plastic containers oh yeah that. has a you know a sell bu date on it that. kind of thing sure you usually see those. my favorites are the uh well we'll save. that um but again uh chips and Salsas is. a pretty American thing uh they do have. the tostada in Mexico but a toata is. used to sort of like an open face Taco. to put stuff on top of and then you'll. put your salsa on top of that. right uh but we do have a few competing.

origin stories for the origin of. tortilla chips which is pretty fun I. think yeah as told in the stuff you. should know book The incomplete. compendium um we talk about the. invention of Fritos specifically by a. guy named El Duan I wonder where I heard. that before remember we talked about. Fredo feet how dogs get Frito smell on. their feet and that chapter features an. illustration of momo wearing a long. haircut that's right if you don't have. her book you should get it just to see.

Momo in there and as a it's a good. illustration too it is it's great um and. as a matter of fact we're not even going. to tell you that story you have to go. read it in the book that's oh you want. to do that yeah all right you want to. hear about Elmer Duan go drop uh you can. probably get that thing for like six. bucks now go to your library even yeah. get it for free go crack a. book all right let's move on to Story. number two then Josh I like that all. right uh Rebecca web Karan. uh she's married to a guy named Mario.

and they own the El zarapa Tortilla. Factory in LA in the 1940s mhm and they. made corn tortillas kind of straight up. but when they had U misshapen tortillas. that they couldn't you know that didn't. look like the rest um they couldn't sell. those or thought they couldn't and they. would cut them into triangles and fry. them up and sell them as Tor chips and. apparently it was a pretty big seller in. the 1940s and 50s um regionally and then. then eventually I think Nationwide even. yeah I mean imagine you like you had.

tortilla chips that you could buy in the. ' 40s of course you'd be crazy for that. like wasn't a lot of competition at the. time you know what I mean snackwise yeah. and I think this number three though is. probably the leading candidate though. don't you think it's got to be because. number one he predates Everybody by a. few decades exactly and number two he. was known as The Corn king of San. Antonio was name was Jose barol Martinez. he looked like a um well Hispanic Teddy. Roosevelt. he kind of does and he wasn't called The.

Corn King for nothing he set up the. first industrial scale Mill for grinding. corn in the United States and he. apparently had four different Mills. around San Antonio at one point and was. pumping out 60,000 PBS of tortilla chips. a day all the way back in the. 191s that's amazing he probably was the. guy who created the tortilla chip yeah I. think so and um you know it's impossible.

to find out like hey what was the first. restaurant that started just throwing. that stuff on the table kind of for free. although it's not for free usually. anymore usually you get like a you can. get like the chips with a trio of Salsas. and like a cheese dip for you know seven. or eight bucks uh but there probably. still some places that you know maybe. some of the chains throw it on the table. for free like like Olive Garden does. with that bread and salad yeah a lot of. people think that it's kind of. sacrilegious to to start charging for it. even if that you're upgrading the salsa.

it it's just it's it's a tradition that. should be honored and restaurants are. like uh actually costs us a lot of money. people say I care not I mean even if you. pay something they're going to keep. giving you basket refills of chips I. guess it just feels off paying for chips. and salsa I'm fine with paying for queso. paying for guacamole yeah yeah and if. they are like we have like a higher end. salsa that we're not going to give you. for for free paying for that that's fine.

but there should be some basic level. salsa with chips at a Mexican restaurant. in the United States that's. complimentary even work it into your. price structure but don't charge for it. there's something just off about it I. think so like a fancy sa like made with. cold schogger that would cost something. right they set it on fire table side um. all right to each their own nice okay. but one more thing before we move on he. said it was impossible to trace where.

the first restaurant that started. serving chips and salsa came from and. that seems to be true but there was a an. historian on Reddit their um ask ask. historians subreddit somebody asked like. what the first restaurant was that. started serving chips and salsa and this. historian dug up um something kind of. close it's potentially a chain called. moo or ELO that apparently they. apparently were by the same person in. Phoenix that by the early to mid '70s.

was already serving chips and then. transferred over from hot sauce people. used to put hot sauce on their chips to. salsa uh serving salsa with chips so. it's possible that was the first. restaurant to do it but what even more. interesting is that apparently before. then people put hot sauce on their chips. much like that analogy I was talking. about earlier of putting ketchup on your. chips it's not that that far. off I love that you said that was much.

more interesting than. the the Reddit historian well no the. redit historian found all that so kudos. to them yeah yeah I got you uh all right. so let's should we just go over a few. sauces here or should we take a break. and do that I think we should take a. break and come back and tell people how. to make their own all right we'll be. right back and we're g to tell you how. to uh get that mocha he out and get busy. right after this. [Music].

all right uh the first salsa we should. talk about is just the Classic it's my. favorite kind of salsa overall the Pico.

Deo um I love a salsa that's that's. almost nothing but chunks which is. basically what Pico de is extremely. fresh yeah not a lot of um Saucy tomato. in there even just you know diced up. tomato um onion chilies cilantro lime. juice a little bit of salt Bing Bang. Boom I throw a little black pepper on. top but that's just me oh Christopher. Columbus would be proud he sure would he. was like. see but I really love just a good.

standard I love a lot of kinds of sauces. but I love a standard picota gu for. especially uh well for both for eating. with chips and with just putting on. tacos and stuff you know something I. learned from researching this um episode. I just had never occurred to me to ask. but Pico Deo actually means beak of the. rooster or Rooster's beak did you know. that uh I didn't know that I I always. just thought it was it. it never occurred to me cuz gu you know.

that's like a kind of beer in Guatemala. and right all right that's what I'm. thinking of cuz it's got a rooster on. the bottle yeah so they called it Bea. the rooster apparently is because people. used to eat Pico Deo with their their. index finger middle finger and thumb. they would just scoop it into their. mouths like and that resembles kind of a. a a chicken or a rooster beak diving. into that bold Pico Deo infecting it. with all manner of communicable diseases. for the next person to to take to which.

is actually kind of a problem with the. fresh. Salsas yeah I mean you know anytime it's. a. fresh fresh produce like that there. could be the danger of some sort of. salmonella or something but mhm uh lime. juice will kill that away you hope can. we talk about Chipotle well real quick. have you had the salsa. sneek I have not I haven't either but it. sounds good it's it's basically Pico Deo. with some stuff swapped out but the.

thing I find most interesting is rather. than lime juice sour orange juice I'll. bet that's good stuff man I bet it is. okay yeah let's go on to Chipotle yes. Chipotle are Smoky uh they're a little. Tangier uh a lot of this stuff is. usually roasted mhm uh Tomatoes garlic. onion those Chipotle you roast those. things up get a little little uh fire. Char on them M and then grind them or. blend them into a paste and you got a. pretty good Chipotle working uh then. there's salsa verde which is made from.

tomatillos which have a green cast to. them they're like little tiny Green. Tomatoes love it but tastes much better. I'm not sure what's going on with. tomatillos but they're pretty awesome. and um that one's just pretty straight. up like you you kind of want the. tomatillo to stand out uh taste-wise but. it can also be kind of hot it's garlicky. oniony there's some cilantro and all. that but the point is the tomatillos are. really it's a really P forward. salsa it's green sure that's why they.

call it salsa ver day yeah but I I have. to say I just have to shout this out if. you want a good Jarred salsa ver day you. could do a lot worse than Trader Joe's I. don't know that I've ever had a jar. salsa ver day actually it's really good. and that's it's actually hard to find a. good one I think Matos makes a good. salsa verde in the jar that you can get. nationally and Trader Joe's is your best. bet for sure do they ever uh do they get. rid of the whole Trader Jose.

thing I don't know I haven't looked. closely but I have seen that fairly. recently but maybe it was a Out ofate. product that I bought yeah I don't go to. Trader Jo I did when I lived in LA. because it was convenient but uh MH I. haven't been in yours um salsa matcha is. something that I was introduced to on my. Mexico City trip that I never had before. and my good friend PJ who is a. outstanding uh uh cook in especially. outstanding Mexican Chef his parents.

owned a Mexican restaurant legendary. Mexican restaurant in New Jersey for. decades M uh that recently closed but um. Mexican food factory shout them out nice. I guarantee you there's some listeners. that have been there uh but PJ was like. you got to have the salsa matcha you. just you won't believe it and just just. try it it sounds awesome it's great it's. not like a traditional salsa you'd see. it's like an oil um so you've got your. your dried chilies of course but you. also have like uh ground peanuts garlic. sesame seeds olive oil and vinegar so no.

tomato in this guy um it's really really. great I'm surprised you didn't run. across it in Mexico City but next time. you have the opportunity I urge you to. try it I will it sounds really awesome. for sure and that one comes from verac. Cruz which also gave us pescato verac. Cruz which is the best way to have fish. yeah I thought it was wwen for some. reason but I guess uh I got bad. information that's all right as long. long as you enjoyed it yeah and I love.

all I mean that's the wonderful thing. about going to uh well I mean now in the. United States Mexican restaurants have. gotten so varied now yeah you can find. especially in the last decade so many. more options besides like TexMex and. Mexicali which I still love that sort of. Americanized version uh but you can find. some great authentic places and W hawen. places and places that are more Seafood. forward and it's just they're really. representing all the flavors of Mexico. here in the states and it's not a bad. thing no it's not at all it's a great.

thing as a matter of fact you don't ever. have to leave the US everybody just. comes to. us uh do you want to go over some of. these other non-mexican versions yeah. the one that stuck out to me was uh AO. Creo Creo that's right it's like Creole. sauce and in Peru they make it with um. like sour cream or Mayo some garlic and. then AI Peppers which are orange. and it sounds really good but there's.

also a confusing Ecuadorian version that. is not like that at. all uh yeah that one has yeah it's got. the same exact name so it is very. confusing MH uh it's got the same. Chili's the AI I guess Aji chilies um. but they don't have dairy products it's. not creamy they use vinegar instead yes. which is pretty much the antithesis of a. creamy dairy product vinegar think is. yeah and Dave said it's pretty. ubiquitous it's like ketchup on the.

table yeah because it's a condiment uh. he also threw in chimy Chuy in here from. Uruguay. Argentina I don't know I don't know if. chimmy Chuy belongs anywhere near this. list it just seems like such its own. thing well there's not a single pepper. or onion in it I don't think or um. Pepper or. tomato yeah is there there's I don't. think there's peppers and chimy Chuy is. there I think it's all like parsley and. uh garlic cilantro garlic a lot of oil I.

don't think there's. Peppers yeah it's good but I don't think. it's salsa I agree should we just cut. this part out no we need to leave it in. as a lesson to everybody never to call. chimmy cherry salsa or else they have to. answer to us well Dave put it in there. so you know what I have to say to Dave. is get the. Rope Where's the Beef Dave um there was. one other thing I wanted to mention too. oh it was a shout out uh the greatest.

free tableside salsa in any restaurant. in the United States is to be found at a. chain in Atlanta called. leonda they are doing something to their. salsa that is unparallel it's the most. sophisticated free salsa you've ever. seen and it's not small batch they have. literal Vats of it sitting around in the. restaurant waiting to be served but it. is so good it's it's worth traveling to. Atlanta just to try that salsa which.

gives it a Michelin star too in my. opinion well uh you'll be glad to know. then my friend there is a leonda that. opened up right down the street for. me all right let's do dinner last year. and uh if you go to the the East Lake. leonda everyone I uh can encourage you. to go uh across the street on Second. Avenue if you go walk by um the other. restaurants here mixed up Burgers you. will see the Eastlake Garden mhm and.

that is a community garden that Emily. and I uh Run Emily Emily like runs that. thing if you go there and uh it looks. beautiful and there are all kinds of. herbs planted and flowers and stuff. planted in beds that is Emily's hard. work because she's basically a full-time. Gardener now that's awesome man what a. great way to spend time yeah and the. East Side Garden is just open for the. public to use and enjoy uh after you've. had some leonda and she just recently. put up a new uh Instagram page for the.

garden so if you want to doesn't have a. lot on there yet but uh it's you know if. you want to follow the story you can go. to. eastor. lore garden and check it out yeah you. just get stuffed on leonda and walk. around the community gardens in East. Lake that sounds like a pleasant evening. man yeah all right so uh yeah we'll do. that and I can finally give you your. birthday present from like six months. ago great oh and you'll know it's the. Eastlake Garden because because there's. a sign that says East Lake Garden uh.

painted by uh local Legend artists are. land is that the one with the praying. hands yeah and the cat the praying hands. and lost cat and uh uh pray for Atlanta. when uh during Co so Ronnie's a very uh. longtime Atlanta resident and very. popular local artist and we've. commissioned Ronnie to do lots of things. including the sign for the eastle garden. and his unique amazing. style and this is this has been hot L. talk Josh and Chuck yeah that's it for.

salsa go out and eat salsa every day yes. go eat salsa go learn how to make mes. and just enjoy life how about that yes. uh Chuck said yes that means it's. listener mail time I tricked him into. it uh this is a good one um this is from. Tamara and Tamara included a post uh. script pronunciation I'm looking up real. quick okay got it hey guys listening to. the widowhood episode reminded me of one. of my favorite stories about my great.

grandmother uh judita when my. grandmother was little 1930s. Pennsylvania her father supported the. family as a coal miner and her mother. judita stayed at home raising six. children uh she was an immigrant from. Italy didn't speak a word of English my. great-grandfather was in a mining. accident and sent to a hospital hours. away with an injury he could not recover. from keeping him bedridden you mentioned. that children of widows were considered. orphans well brother I'm here to tell. you you so were children of those whose. fathers were in the hospital even wow uh.

there was an actual court hearing for. the children where presumably they would. be sent into the Foster system uh my. great-grandmother got a lawyer no idea. how that happened uh but the judge was. entering the courtroom my. great-grandmother was holding a. conversation in Italian with her lawyer. that went something like this are they. going to take my children yes it's very. likely and it will cost the money to. feed house and clothe my children right. yes that's right then why don't they. give me the money and I'll take care of. my own children uh just so happened that.

judge was fluent and Italian understood. the pleas and logic of my. great-grandmother and that's exactly the. arrangement they came to awesome uh my. grandmother recalls that her oldest. brother was in charge of accounting for. all the money they received from the. state documenting exactly how it was. spent they were lucky there was a little. bit left over at the end of the month. they got some Penny Candy and whenever I. think life of is rough I recall judita. and knowing that her blood is in me and. seeing the line of women I come from. gives me the confidence I need to tackle.

whatever comes my way very nice what a. great email great email that's from. Tamara and she was thrilled to know that. she would be on and everyone will be. happy to know that uh her grandmother is. still alive at 97 years old and is going. to hear this email so hello Grandma. hello Grandma and thanks a lot Tamara if. you want to be like Tamara and send us. an awesome email we're always up for. that all you have to do is send it off. off to stuff podcast iheartradio.com.

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