Ruth Lyons: TV Pioneer | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW

[music]. >> Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a. production of iHeart Radio. >> [music]. >> Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm. Josh and there's Chuck and this is Stuff. You Should Know. Hats off tribute, even white [music]. gloves off tribute. to a true. unsung, I would say, pioneer [music] in. a lot of ways. Certainly sung in certain. areas and certain age groups, but as far. as history's concerned, I'm going to go.

ahead and say that Ruth Lyons is a an. unsung pioneer in the history of. television. >> Agreed. Uh and this is. >> Okay. >> a listener recommendation. >> Mhm. >> from I think I think I've been sitting. on this one for a while. >> Yes. >> So, for all I know, Nick Bauer gave up. on the show and won't even hear this. >> It's possible. It happens. >> [laughter]. >> Uh I also should mention that my dogs. are over here today and they usually are. put away,

but they can't be because of uh. of work people. So, they're laying down now and they're. being quiet. >> Okay. >> But we'll see what happens. >> Hey, Momo's appeared on the show at. least once, so I I can feel your pain. It's all right. >> we should have a um policy moving. forward that anytime Mo speaks in the. background, Jerry just leaves that in. >> Okay. I'm fine with that. As long as. Yeah, I'm fine with that. No qualifiers. needed. >> It makes you feel like a real person.

like Ruth Lyons strove to be. >> Oh, I don't I don't like that then. >> [laughter]. >> I strive to do the opposite and seem. robotic and wooden. >> No. Uh but I'm glad you introduced this. as an unsung hero story because I had. never heard of Ruth Lyons, but as it. turns out, uh Ruth Lyons was quite a. pioneer and in fact, I mean, unless somebody corrects us, I would. be pretty I feel pretty good about. saying that Ruth Lyons invented the.

format of the TV talk show. >> Yeah, which really flies in the face of. essentially everything you will find in. research which credits Joe Franklin who. hosted the Joe Franklin show as not only. being the first daytime television host. talk show host but have having also. invented the format. >> Yeah. >> And his show was on from 1951 get this. till 1993. >> Are you [laughter] serious? >> I am dead serious. He recorded 28,000.

plus episodes and he never missed a. show. >> So no shade at Joe Franklin. >> No, not at all. Not at all but you will. not find if you look up who invented the. daytime talk show it's Joe Franklin. across the board but we have clear. evidence here that our hero of the story. Ruth Lyons. definitely invented the talk show at. least two years before Joe Franklin. So. >> Yeah. >> Let's let's get into this, shall we? Because even aside from that that.

whether she invented it or not she was. clearly a early pioneer in daytime talk. and TV in general. It was also a pretty. interesting person. >> Yeah, like everything I read about her. it was just like could she get any. better? Like every time I read a new thing I was. like she was super rad lady. through and through but she like you. said she arrived at the beginnings of TV. because as we'll see she started out on. radio and then transferred to TV. but it was you know there were no you.

know she kind of invented the formula. because there were no formulas to follow. >> Right. >> she was like. I mean not only a pioneer and just sort. of being the first to do things and. certainly the first woman to do these. things but just like all these great. ideas like every time she had a new idea. for something for the show. it was just like a super cool idea. >> Yeah, for sure. And she not only was a. TV pioneer, she was a she was at the the. onset essentially of radio, too. So, she.

was there for the the proliferation of. radio as a mass medium, and the same for. TV, too. So, just that in and of itself. is pretty remarkable. But, yeah, the. fact that she was doing this as a woman, and then also not like "I'll go out. there and host all male colleagues tell. me what to do." Like, she was calling. the shots. >> And she did it by by building up her her. professional career just by being. reliable, trustworthy, charming, um interesting, but also like, this is.

kind of how it's going to be. Although, I never saw anything. So, she was described as brash here or. there. Um I'd never got the impression that she. was one of those people who was just. pushy and like, this is the way it is. I. never got that impression. And then similarly, she talks a lot. I. read her. Well, skimmed her memoirs. Highly. readable, by the way. And she talks a lot about herself, obviously. It's her memoir. But, she.

never quite crosses the line into like. boasting. So, it's really That's a tough. like a tough tightrope to walk, and she. manages to do it. So, yeah, she's just. pretty great all all across the board. >> Yeah, and and I think brash is a word. that was used and is still used to. describe women in the workplace who. you know, call their own shots and. behave essentially like men might. >> Yeah, and take no McGuffins. >> Take no McGuffin. Oh, man, why do you. have to say that word again?

So, uh Ruth was born Ruth Lyons in 1905. in Cincinnati. And as you will see, this. is a very Cincinnati. um centric story uh as long along with. some other markets in the area. But, that was really her home, and uh and as. you will see, she was a big Reds fan. >> Yeah. >> Even to the point of like getting people. to stuff the ballot box for the Reds on. the All-Star team which is pretty cool. >> Yeah. Um and we should also say one more. thing. about the pioneer thing. I noticed some.

things. I certainly wouldn't call us. pioneers in podcasting and people have. been doing it before us. Um but we were there at generally like. the the beginning of it kind of and. certainly the the spread and. proliferation of it becoming a popular. form of media. So I kind of can. commiserate here or there with some of. the some of the points throughout her. career too. I thought that was kind of. neat. >> Oh yeah? >> Yeah, I'll point them out as we go. along. How about that?

>> All right, so she was born in. Cincinnati. She had a sister. Her. parents were you know you know seemed. like sort of middle class family. Her. dad was a railroad clerk and her mother. was a homemaker. Had a very close family. Seems like she was probably influenced. some by her paternal grandmother who was. involved in the. Women's Christian Temperance Union. because Ruth would never drink alcohol. throughout her whole life. >> Mhm. >> But even from a kid she was you know she.

was like little Eddie Murphy. She was. always putting on a show for the family. and if she like got on stage and did. something and messed up like she wasn't. the kind of kid to run off stage crying. She just kind of rolled with it and that. seems to be sort of a formative thing. for her throughout her career. >> Yeah and speaking of formative her like. how she was during her formative age. kind of set the stage for the rest of. her life wherein she was a feminist in. in many many ways but at the same time. she was also totally comfortable with.

fulfilling traditional women's roles. What's cool is they don't seem to have. ever particularly contradicted each. other in her. >> Yeah and it also seems like um. it certainly wasn't stick but it seems. like something that she was like hey I'm. just like you you. know she she was a an every woman and. she she even sort of. pooh-poohed sometimes like you know the. movie stars with their fur coats and. like they're basically unrelatable and.

she I don't I don't think she wanted to. be relatable I think she just was. relatable. >> Yeah, I think that's well put man. So. getting back to her bio. she started dating a guy named Johnny. Lyons who lived down the street. >> I knew a guy named Johnny Lyons by the. way. >> Do you really? Is this the same guy? >> No, >> [laughter]. >> I knew him a long time ago but when I. read that I was like oh yeah Johnny. Lyons whatever happened to that dude. >> It's a good name good solid name. >> Yeah. >> He lived down the street and they ended. up getting married about eight years. after high school.

And. as we'll see it didn't last very long. but in the meantime she went to the. University of Cincinnati. I think the. Bearcats. >> Go Bearcats. >> Cats. >> Bearcats. >> Bearcats thank you. And she was just there for one year. She. made quite a splash while she was there. the first year she was the humor editor. for the yearbook and she wrote music for. the school musical and I think she. became a Tri Delt even. She was the one who coined the phrase. Delta Delta Delta can I help you help.

[laughter] you help you. >> I saw that coming a mile away. >> So. but she stopped she she dropped out. after the first year her father became. ill he apparently lost decent amount of. money in the depression and so her. family was kind of hard up and she's. like I'm really like nothing I'm doing. here is actually going to further my. career down the road I might as well. drop out and go. find work and help support the family. rather than being a drain on the family. finances. >> Yeah for sure she was also a musician.

and a songwriter. something she did kind of throughout her. career even though that was definitely. like a a side gig that like clearly. something she loved doing. Um but when she was young, right after. she dropped out of school, she got a job. playing sheet music at the Willis Music. Company, which was downtown Cincinnati. And she kind of got hip to the, you. know, the local music scene and the. radio scene and did other side jobs. along the way, obviously, to make some. money, but she was writing songs this. whole time. Uh and in fact wrote a song.

that I wouldn't call it a hit, but her. most popular song in 1946. uh was called Let's Light the Christmas. Tree. So, she wrote a. you know, probably in the area as well, sort of a classic Christmas song. >> I got I mean, she took every every thing. in the kitchen including the sink that's. even remotely Christmasy and threw it at. that one. There's bells that are peeling. along with the with the choir. There's. children's parts. All of the the lyrics are real schmaltzy. like like Christmasy stuff.

It's a I mean, it's a Christmas song. through and through. It's not great, but. it is a Christmas song. >> Josh's review, it's a Christmas song. >> Yeah. Period. >> So, uh Ruth Reeves got on the radio for the. first time in 1925 um just playing piano. along with the singer. Uh but then in. 1929 uh fate came a-knocking and she got. a full-time gig at uh WKRC in.

Cincinnati. >> Cincinnati. >> And she was uh assistant to the musical. director there and she was basically um. you know, she organized the music. She. played piano whenever they needed. someone live in studio. And then uh uh another fateful thing. would happen when the host of a show. called The Woman's Hour got sick. She. filled in and started ad-libbing kind of. right away kind of Robin Williams style. in uh in Good Morning, Vietnam. She. threw the script out the window, did her own thing, and afterward got.

called into the manager's office, where. is like something out of a movie. She. thought she was going to get in trouble, and they were like, "You're a hit.". >> That's right. Uh and sadly, so this apparently this. woman she replaced or filled in for was. out for 1 day, and she came back in and lost her job. the next day because Ruth had made such. a splash. So, she she inadvertently took. this poor woman's job, um and went on to. not only uh host Woman's Hour, she added.

another one called Open House, and then. another one. So, she's hosting three. different radio programs. Third one's. called The Woman's View on the News. And she was not only hosting those, she. was also still working with the musical. director, and um very like quickly. made a a name for herself. Um and again, this is where Johnny Lyons comes back in. and exits almost as quickly uh because. they got married in 1932,

and shortly after that, um Johnny was. transferred to Cleveland, and Ruth was. like, "My, I'm just starting my career. here, and it's going really well. I'm. going to stay in Cincinnati. Let's try. this long-distance." And anyone who's. familiar with Ohio geography, the drive. from Cincinnati to Cleveland is not a. short drive. >> Uh-huh. >> It's just long enough to be like a long. drive, you know? >> Okay. >> So, I can imagine in the 1930s it was. even harder. >> Yeah. >> Um and. sad to say, it didn't quite work out, and they ended up staying married for.

about 7 years, but I have the distinct. impression that they they were basically. consciously uncoupled long before then. >> Yeah, it seems like it. Uh very sadly, um she kept that name, obviously Ruth. Lyons was the name she started her radio. career with. So, I think she kept it for name. recognition from that point forward, uh. even after getting remarried, as we'll. see later. Uh and she didn't really talk about that. first marriage a lot. Uh it's not in her. memoir. Um she did say in uh you know,

when she was talking about her second. marriage, I think in interviews later. on, that she didn't think she would ever. marry because she thought men would hate. her success. So, I don't know if that had anything to. do with her marriage or if it was just. the long-distance thing, but at any. rate, they got divorced, and maybe. that is a decent time for a break. >> I'd say Ruth Lyons would approve. >> All right. We'll be right back with more. Ruth Lyons. >> [music].

[music]. >> Learning stuff with Joshua [music]. and Charles. [singing]. Stuff you should know. >> Okay, Chuck. So, we're back. Uh we um. held the seance in the break, and may we. did verify that Ruth Lyons thought it. was a great time for us to take a break. So, that was great.

>> Yeah. >> And I said that um she had made a name. for herself pretty quickly on Cincinnati. radio. And one of the things that came along. that really helped her with that, um. which I guess if you can ever be helped. by a flood, she was. There was a huge. flood in 1937. I saw that it was described as up to the. street lights, which is a pretty. decent-size flood. And it was a catastrophe for Cincinnati. And at the time, again, radio's like. really just kind of starting out, and. this is one of the ways that it proved.

itself as a a medium where you could. help people thoroughly. She stayed on. the air essentially for 48 hours um. reading um. uh. bulletins, I think, from the local um. authorities on where to go for help or. how to donate to the Red Cross or where. to go get sandbags, that kind of stuff. And just that that right there kind of. showed Cincinnati that she was a. trustworthy voice to to be listened to. >> Yeah, and I don't know if it was that or. just her overall butt-kicking at the.

job, but she I got a promotion. She got. promoted to program director. This is a. in the woman in the 1930s, so she's. already sort of, you know, breaking new. ground and breaking glass ceilings all. over the place. >> Yeah, just to point out she had by this. time Venus Flytraps job, Johnny Fever's. job, and Andy's job as well. >> That's right. So, she was. she didn't have Loni Anderson's job. That's the key there. >> Right. She had Loni Anderson and about.

17 other other people working for her. >> That's right. One of the other great. things she did was work with with kids. She started a Christmas fund. It's kind. of like a sort of an early version of. Toys for Tots. It was in 1939 she put on a show at. Cincinnati Children's Hospital. It was. like, these kids need more than this. And so, she founded what was called the. Christmas Fund and raised about a. thousand bucks from listeners in that. first year. And that is a fund that is. still going strong today. long after she has passed. And I think.

they. they do it every year on her birthday. They started up on October 4th. >> Yeah, and that was something she had a. talent for was getting people to donate. money to causes that she thought were. important. Um, you said they raised a. thousand dollars that first year in. 1939. Four years later they were up to. raising $54,000. and this is 1940s money, so it was. pretty substantial. They helped they. spread out very quickly after that to. include children's homes and other. hospitals and other areas that the.

broadcast reached like as far as I think. Indianapolis. So, it was a big deal right off the off the. bat. And um, she so I think 1942 she'd been. doing this for about 10 years, a little. less. Um, no, about 10 years. And she made a. move to a different radio station. They. offered the plum. can't turn it down deal of an extra $10. a week over what she was making at her. original station, and she said, "Sold.".

>> Yeah, I think this had more to do with. uh getting out to more voices because. Crosley Broadcasting. uh was broadcasting in in several more. markets than just local Cincinnati. radio. So, the station uh definitely like. publicized on her notoriety at that. point. And they said, "Let's have a. contest where we have uh listeners write. in to name her new show." Uh. the name wasn't great. They came back. with the the winning one was a Petticoat. Party Line. Uh she added more shows that cuz that's.

what Ruth Lyons does. She added a. morning show called the WLW Consumers. Foundation. And this one was like. gangbusters with the company because it. was great for advertisers in that they. had a couple of hundred women test out. products and then come back on the air. and report what they found out. So, advertisers always loved her. Um they added they kind of gussied it. up. She added music and then games and. eventually changed that terrible name to. Morning Matinee, much, much better name. And also had a game show called Collect.

Calls from Lowenthal's, which was a fur. store. >> Right. And if you kind of go back and. look at that um the Morning Matinee, in. addition to, you know, having uh women. test products and then come in and say. like, "Well, this is what I thought of. this." Um adding music and games, that. kind of stuff, like all of a sudden it's. starting to take like a morning show. format. You know? >> sure. >> You can start to see the contours of it. just kind of coming into view a here or. there. Um and she one of the things she.

did was she We'll we'll talk about this. a little more later, but she was really. good at. just understanding that you need ad. revenue. to survive. and that you're going to make more ad. revenue and also keep your viewership if. you are forthright and honest about your. advertisers. And so one of the things. she did was she would turn down she she. negotiated the ability to say no not.

them. I don't believe in their product. because like her ads were all. endorsement. So for her as a very. ethical person, she didn't do any. endorsements that she didn't personally. believe in which was a big deal. especially at the time. And also led her to tons of. disagreements and head-butting with the. ad sales department but she would. typically win because that's how. powerful she had become again as a woman. in broadcasting in the 40s.

>> Yeah, absolutely. Um, she you know, I. mentioned earlier she got married again. She married a guy named Herman Newman. this time who was a semantics professor. And he was a big liberal guy, progressive guy which meant that he. didn't mind her having a lot of career. success. He was very supportive of her. >> Yeah. >> And which was awesome and I think. aligned with her political values as. well as we'll see you know, with some of. the things that she did. Um, they had one kid in 1944.

Uh, it was a little bit of a unusual. situation in that they announced the. birth of young Candace who they called. Candy. Uh, later on people found out that she. very sadly suffered a stillbirth at 6. months. and adopted an orphan newborn. at the time that she had lost her her. own baby. So Um, she didn't you know, she didn't cover it up or anything but. she didn't come right out and say it but. everyone knew the timeline of her. pregnancy. So you know,

you could probably figure it out if you. were paying attention. >> Right. Right. So yes, and Candy became their beloved. child. Like I I like she was just the. her parents absolutely adored her and. she would go on to kind of make. appearances here or there on the radio. show and then later on the TV show. And. I guess she made her first appearance at. 6 weeks old on the mic. >> Very cute. >> morning matinee. Yeah, her quote was. goo. >> Goo goo. >> So, she came up with another program,

Ruth did. She said, "Hey guys, I got a. great idea. There is a There are a lot of women out. there who haven't and may never have the. chance to have a really fancy luncheon. at a nice hotel downtown. So, we're not. only going to give them that. opportunity, we're going to make a show. out of it." And she called this the 50. Club because there was room for 50. paying customers. You paid a dollar. each, it was about $18 today to have a. smashing lunch at the Gibson Hotel. And.

after lunch, you were treated to her. radio show. You were part of the studio. audience and it was a smash hit right. out of the gate. They ended up selling. tickets to the thing. They would sell. them in three and four-year chunks at a. time. >> Yeah, and so big that they had to double. the audience and get a new venue. And. so, that's why her show ended up being. called the 50-50 Club. Uh pretty smart to to keep that 50 in. there instead of calling it the 100 Club. or the 700 Club.

>> That's right. That's a lot of studio. audience. >> Yeah, so in 1949, um they said, "You. know what? The 50 Club is going great. 50-50 Club is even better. So, let's. make this thing a TV show." Uh because. that radio station also had a TV. counterpart. And she was like, "I don't. know about this. Like I'm a radio. person. I don't like these studio. lights. They get really hot. I don't. like you know, I feel like I can be more. myself without this camera in my face, especially with these interviews I'm.

doing with people. And you know, she was. flying off, you know, flying by the seat. of her pants and sort of off the cuff on. the radio and wanted to do that on TV, but that's a bigger problem for TV. because of lighting and blocking and. stuff like that. So, it was all a bit of. a challenge. Um but you know, she got on. TV and of course immediately executives. started saying like you need to lose. weight, lady. >> She said in her memoirs that she had. gained a bunch of weight from all the. delicious pies and cakes she ate at.

lunch at the Gibson every day. >> Sure. >> So, yeah. So, there was one other thing. that she had to complain about with them. being on television. She said that um. the engineers are in complete control, which was a reversal of what she was. used to in the radio studio. She said. one even wore a beret with an. exclamation point and everything. >> So, she ends up because she's a. overachiever, clearly, we've established. this at this point. Um she was program. director at WLW.

And so, all of a sudden she has. authority on television as well after. she had already sort of asserted herself. on the radio for, you know, quite a. while at this point. Um but you know, like I said earlier, she was inventing. the model. She She couldn't look to. other shows to see what people were. doing. Also, not a lot of people were. watching. This was a. you know, very early in the days of TV. I think uh the the whole station in 1946. was a bit of an experiment. So, not a. lot of families had TV sets in the early.

1950s. Which was kind of good. It was. kind of like us in a way starting out. with podcasting. Like we weren't very. good for a while, but not a lot of. people were listening to podcasts. So, you had a lot of room to sort of grow. and learn the craft uh just like she. did. >> Exactly. That was definitely one of the. things that came up that that I was. like, yeah, I can totally identify with. that. That's certainly how we managed to. kind of get along at the beginning, right? >> Yeah. >> One other thing I noticed at the time, TVs were so new, this is the early 50s.

that she was making these um TV shows, um that a lot of people had to stand. around. um often outside furniture stores, just. like you see in movies, to like watch a. TV show from one of the models on. display in the front window. >> Mhm. >> And that's just like podcasting. People. used to stand outside of furniture. stores to listen to podcast. I You can. make a really good case that Rooms To Go. is at least as important uh as in. podcasting as Apple is. >> So, she's crushing it on regional uh TV.

now, so much so that NBC is like, "Hey, uh we want to take you national. Uh it would be the first national. daytime talk show hosted by a woman, obviously, cuz it's 1951 at this point.". And they did. They put it uh it was. literally less than a year. They put it. on the um. across the country for 11 months, I. think. And it it seems like it basically. stopped because she didn't want to move. to New York. They said, "Hey, why don't. you come to New York, give it more of a. sort of a national appeal uh because. you're there in Cincinnati and nobody.

cares in 1951 about a show out of. Cincinnati across the country." So, uh. they said she said no. She said, "I want. to stay here." And so, she went back to. the Crosley market, which was I think uh. Indianapolis, Columbus, Dayton, and of. course Cincinnati. >> Yes. And so, there's something really. important to know about that. So, she. stayed true to her roots, but she didn't. say like, "I I don't really want to make. it big time. I just want to go stay in. Cincinnati. New York scares me." Despite.

going back to being a local or regional. talk show, she was she had the. highest-rated daytime program in the. country, right? From 1952 to 1964. Even national. nationally broadcast talk shows could. not beat her ratings in basically four. markets. >> Yeah. I mean, she had 7 million viewers. uh over that time span. That that's an. incredible amount like in the early days. of TV especially. I mean, that's a lot.

now. Um but you know, her audience was. growing cuz it was also broadcast on the. radio. So, she had even more people. listening there. And they were reaching sort of across. the Midwest with the radio by that. point. And she was like I said, she was. always a sort of a beloved uh figure for. advertisers. So, she was making a ton of. money for the company and tickets were. selling out 4 years in advance to come. to the studio audience. >> Right, yeah. Um one other thing I saw is. that um she mentioned that it was kind.

of common for school kids to go home. during lunch and watch the show with. their mother in the middle of the day. And um it turns out one of those little. kids, and this is totally genuine, I'm. not making a joke here, was David. Letterman who credits Ruth Lyons as. introducing him to the entire concept of. a talk show. Um and yeah, she was one of. his inspirations. >> That's awesome. >> I thought so, too. >> She also inspired a lot of people to get. color TVs because in 1957.

it was one of the first shows in the. region to air in color. And people. wanted to see everything in color. They. want to see Ruth Lyons in color. So, they bought up so many color TV sets in. Cincinnati that it became known as Color. Town USA for a while. >> Mhm. >> And she didn't love the switch to color. They hired a makeup artist to um you. know, to kind of help her through that. transition and she didn't like that. She. didn't like the foundation they put on. her. So, in a very Ruth Lyons way, she.

turned that into a bit and had uh the. artist do makeover for her like in front. of the audience and then have the. audience vote about like which look they. like better. >> Yeah. And they sided with her, of course. So, let's talk a little bit about the. show format. You want to? >> Yeah, I mean it was a straight-up talk. show. >> It was. Um there were some So again, this is not like she's like, "I want to. be I want to do what Kathie Lee and Hoda. do." Or I want to do what Kathie Lee and. Regis did.

She they based their stuff on her. So. one of the things that she did that um. that definitely became a thing, especially in the next couple decades, '70s, '80s, her the the studio, the set. looked like a living room. It was meant. to be comfortable, like she was inviting. the viewers and the people she was. interviewing into her home just to kind. of make it that much more casual and. laid-back, right? Um. And she also one of some This is. different that never got picked up, but. the her interview seat and the seat she.

normally sat in was a love seat that was. also a rocking chair. >> Love those rockers. >> A rocker love seat though, you don't see. that very often. Even Rooms To Go only. has a few of them. >> We have uh outdoor versions of those. They're called gliders. >> Okay, yes. Sure, maybe that's why I was. having trouble conceiving of what it. was. It's a glider. >> Yeah, I love those gliders. But uh if. you've ever seen a picture of Ruth uh uh. you know, there's not a a ton of stuff. out there, sadly, but a lot of times you.

might see her holding on stage a bouquet. of flowers. >> Mhm. >> and with a guest and you might think, "Well, that's a odd thing to do." Or. maybe she's just giving flowers. She. actually had her microphone inside the. bouquet of flowers. That was her thing. Which I think is just a very sort of. lovely thing to have on television. >> It is. It's pretty cool. I actually um did see some pictures of. her and there's one from I think she was. about 30 years of age, something like. that. And she is the spitting image of a cross. between 1980s peak cute Meg Ryan.

and uh the bride from the new Maggie. Gyllenhaal movie, but without the ink. blot on her face. >> Wow, okay. >> I mean just like if you put those two. together 50% and 50% you would have Ruth. Lyons at age 30. >> All right. We'll we'll let the public. decide. >> Okay. >> So she stayed you know with her sort of. off-the-cuff thing that was just what. she was known for. in her career and you know it was she.

played it very loose which for TV. now would be sort of a nightmare but at. the time like said no one knew what they. were really doing so they just kind of. rolled with it but. >> Right. >> They would put you know various male. sidekicks alongside her over the years. It was always her show though. and she had some real heavy hitters. It. was even though it was regional like we. said she had a ton of viewers so I mean. she had Sammy on the show. She had Duke. Ellington, Bob Hope, Phyllis Diller, the. Smothers Brothers, Carol Channing. She had a horse on.

stage. She had Roy Rogers and Trigger at. one point. >> Yeah. Peter, Paul and get this Mary. >> Yeah. >> came and performed. Um Clarabell from. Howdy Doody who I didn't know this but. the first person who played Clarabell. the Clown was Captain Kangaroo. >> Yeah. >> So yes that's just like a slight list of. it. If you read her memoirs like the. entire middle part is just story after. story about the different like. celebrities she met and like interviewed.

and what they were like and. she's got some pretty pretty interesting. stories. I would encourage anybody to go read her. memoir Remember With Me from 1969 and on. the cover it's got a cute little like a. bouquet with a microphone sticking out. of it. So we're not going to get into that. much. I would just say read the read the. book. Okay. >> Yeah. Get out there. I think you can. just get it online right? >> Like read it online. >> Yes there's like a PDF out there of. scanned I mean I don't know who does.

this people who literally change page. after page and scan entire books and you. can tell it's a person too because every. like third or fourth page is like kind. of diagonal cuz it wasn't flat. [laughter] enough for the scanner. So God bless people who do that. >> Oh, for sure. So you know, we talked about her show. being financially successful because of. the advertisers but she had a odd way of. dealing with advertisers that people. seem to love. She didn't love just. regular sort of boring ad copy. She like.

to kind of make things up and ad-lib. And I don't know I mean the sponsors. kept coming back even though at times. she was even bagging on the sponsors. So. it must have worked just to get. attention. There was one example where. she was talking about a food product. that they said was big, brawny, bold and brave. It would make kids big, brawny, bold and. brave and she said, "Yeah, the next B. word that comes to mind is baloney." So. she would definitely give guff to like.

the people that were paying her money, which is interesting. >> Sure. Yeah. A lot like some podcasts. read their stuff today. >> Yeah, other shows do that. We. We've been told we can't do that. >> No. No. >> It's interesting though. I hear it all. the time. I'm like, "Well, how do they. do it?" But whatever. >> Yeah, it's kind of it's kind of a thing. We're one of the rare ones that don't do. it like that, you know. >> Yeah. All right. >> There's another great anecdote about the. cloud that she had as far as advertisers. go. She. There was a.

a can or a brand of canned vegetables. that bought a 10-week ad buy on her show. and went from number seven to number. one. And I looked into the brand. It was. black brand canned broccoli clouds and. botulism squeezings. I mean she took that from number seven. to number one. >> It's crazy. I think we'll it's time for a late break. and then we'll come back and finish up. with Ruth Lyons.

>> [music]. >> Learning stuff with Joshua [music]. [singing] and Charles. Stuff you should know. >> All right. So, finishing up with Ruth. Lyons, you know, we talked about the fact that. she always said that you know, in her. words, she was just a housewife with a. radio program. Um all in an effort to be.

relatable to people that were watching. her. Um the audience uh called her. mother. Her staff and the and everyone. there called her mother, which I think. is like super kind of cool. And she would, you know, she would get. on the air and talk about housekeeping. and stuff like that, which sponsors. obviously loved. Uh and then sometimes. she would turn that into a bit. Um like. when her housekeeper quit, uh she. brought in her husband's laundry and had. an ironing contest for the audience, uh which of course incorporated uh spray.

starch as an advertiser. >> Yeah, she did what you would call um. integrated advertising today. Like where. people just suddenly realize they're. talking about a product and it's not. actually part of the show. She kind of. did stuff like that, which we don't do. >> No. I mean, people I think people. accused us of that when I talked about. KFC recently. I was like, I just like KFC. >> Or the whole Pepsi ad that we did that. we said at the beginning was an ad. seemed to have confused people a lot, too. So, we still don't do integrated.

advertising, everybody. >> That's right. Uh So, she wasn't without. her detractors, uh of course, because. she was a woman on the air. Um. just like today, you're going to have. people that are going to be picking. apart her appearance. Um in 1960 Ladies'. Home Journal of all places, uh there was a reporter named Betty. Hannah Hoffman. who said that she has a bad slouch and a. sandpaper voice. And someone from that story, it was an. anonymous source, said she was a very.

dominating kind of woman. Uh she needles. and browbeats the men on her program, and this delights the housewives. Uh it, you know, again, I think this is. all just coded language for somebody. having fun on the air. And maybe if she. was poking fun of men on the air to the. delight of housewives, uh you know, I'm. sure that was a thing she did because. that's funny. It's comedy. >> Sure. Yeah, I think that's kind of what I was. talking about at the beginning that some. people were like, she's a little brash. or whatever, but they didn't know what. they were talking about. They were just.

being catty. >> That's right. >> And you had said earlier, too, that she. was one of those people where the more. you found out about her, the better she. kept go getting. And I'm sure that this. is one of the things that struck you cuz. it did me as well, but um I think in. 1952, two. She had a a singer on, a black singer. named Arthur Lee Simpkins, who was. performing in town. She'd seen him. perform the night before with her. husband. And um. he she invited him to be on the show the. next day, and she noticed that while he.

was um singing his first number, that he. looked very nervous. So, she went over. to him and started dancing with him. And. uh they danced for a couple of minutes, and then he did some more performances. and loosened up, and everything was. great. Well, that caused quite a scandal. because a white woman danced on. television with a black man. And this. again was 1952. And it Apparently, while she was doing. this, it didn't even occur to her that. this is going to be a thing. That was. kind of how she was as a person, but she. got a lot of pushback about it. And then.

simultaneously, she got a lot of like. kudos and thanks for just basically I. saw one woman wrote that um that she. demonstrated heartfelt love for another. human being without being hampered one. bit by the color of his skin. And she didn't shrink from that. controversy at all, Chuck. She came on. the next day and spent 15 minutes. talking about how there was nothing. wrong with what she had done. >> Yeah, it was pretty great. Like very. publicly. Um she was also very. supportive and uh tried to advance the. careers of other women on her staff. And.

uh we definitely should mention uh Elsa. Sul who was the executive director for. her show from 1944 until she retired. from the show. So, uh it was one of. those things where she was sort of like. our Jerry. She wasn't on camera, but. like she talked to her off camera, so. everyone knew who Elsa was. >> Mhm. >> And uh you know, she ran the contest. She even wrote some of the songs, some. of the parody songs that Ruth Lyons. performed. Uh and she uh kept working.

there after Lyons retired. She worked as. associate producer for the Bob Braun. show uh because Bob Braun would take. over. He was one of the sort of. sidekicks that they used. He would take. over after she uh retired. >> Yeah, and one more thing about her, she. she was pro-union, too, right? >> Yeah, she you know, the musicians went. on strike at a certain point and she was. like, "Oh, wait a minute. I'm a. musician. I've always thought of myself. as a musician as well. So, I'm going to. go on strike with these people." And the. station immediately was pulled back and. was like, "Oh, oh, oh, well, we can't.

have that." So, they gave in. >> Right. All right. So, you said that she um. retired. She ended up retiring, I think. in 1967, but that was after a few really hard. years that began in 1964, starting with. the death of her sister Rose Reese. Lupton, who also who was a co-worker of. hers also at WLWT. Um and she had been living with cancer. for 10 years and uh succumbed to it. eventually, again in 1964, and that was.

kind of the beginning of a a bunch of. hardships that she faced. >> Yeah, it was it was really tough. Uh she. had a stroke herself, a very minor. stroke, but it was enough that she felt. like she needed to take a break for a. little while. Um and just a few weeks after that, and. this is just brutal. Her daughter Candy, at 20 years old, was diagnosed with. breast cancer. Had a mastectomy, and she. thought about retiring at the time. Ruth. Lyons did. She was like, I just don't, you know, this is just too much. But.

Candy wouldn't have it. She was like, no, you got to keep doing the show. This. is your life. She started coming in more and more on. the show. as a regular guest, and as she got. worse, it was pretty clear that she, you. know, it was a terminal case. So, in. 1966, they took a trip, a family trip to. Italy, and that was sort of, you know, the last trip they would take. I think. they knew that going in. And very sadly, Candy passed away just at 21 years old. in June of that year.

>> Yeah, on the trip, on the ship they were. taking. And it was very sad, and the public. grieved with her because, you know, just. like other parts of her life, she shared. that whole. tragedy with Candy with them as it as it. played out. And. that was that was pretty much it. Like, she came back, and she was she tried to. kind of keep going, but she'd miss a lot. of shows, and when she was there, she. had trouble. just doing what she wasn't herself any. longer after Candy died. And so, the.

writing was on the wall to her, and she. she um retired officially the next year. after Candy died. She was 60. She'd been. doing this for decades by then. And she couldn't bring herself to tell. the public that she was retiring. So, she had the station's vice president. announce it, and apparently even the. crew hadn't hadn't been informed before. then. >> Yeah, super super sad for the for the. audience, for sure. But she wrote that. book that you talked about. She also. wrote a songbook.

called Sing a Song in 1969. But she never got on TV again. She was. asked a lot. Of course, everyone wanted. her to come on TV and be on their show, but she never did it again. Uh she was. the honorary chairman in 1972 for the. Save the Terminal campaign, which uh. rescued the Art Deco, the beautiful Art. Deco Union Terminal in Cincinnati, uh because they're going to tear that. down. So, that was kind of one of her, you know, uh. big public final acts, but she would go.

on to live for a while. She passed away. at the age of 81 in 1988. >> Yeah. And one last footnote, the 1957 Major. League Baseball All-Star game. is heavily stacked with Cincinnati Reds. players who were outmatched by plenty of. other players around the league, but. they had gotten more votes cuz this is. when the public voted, I think, for the. first time, and that was because, like. you said, Ruth Lyons had led a stuff the. ballot box drive to get as many Reds. players on the All-Star team as possible.

cuz she was a huge fan. >> That's right. Go Reds. I've always liked. the Reds. >> Sure. Remember Eric Davis? He was. awesome. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Uh okay. Well, uh that's it for Ruth. Lyons. Again, hats off to you, white. gloves off, uh and I think, Chuck, it's. time for listener mail. >> Yeah, this is a one of those cool things. that happen sometimes where somebody we. reference on the show, maybe someone. who's written a book or something, writes in. >> Mhm.

>> uh because they heard it, and this is. great. This is from uh Steven Kurze, he. wrote the nonfiction book The Quiet. Zone, and he listened to our episode on the. National Radio Quiet Zone and had a uh. had a correction. He said, uh "The National Security. Agency remains very much active at Sugar. Grove Station, guys, which means the NSA. Defense Department remains a major. unseen force and influence behind the. National Radio Quiet Zone. Uh. you guys cited an old news story about. uh Sugar Grove being partly sold off,

which is accurate. Uh the US Navy had. ended most of, but not all of its. operations in Sugar Grove, and much of. the military housing community was put. up for auction in 2016. but I don't know if it actually sold. In. any case, the government retained. ownership and usage of the highly. secretive classified radio antennas at. Sugar Grove which are up. a guarded mountain holler that is out of. public view. However, you can see the. facility if you go up another mountain. road as I've [music] done. That's Steven talking. You can also see.

the facility. and it's half dozen antennas on Google. Maps. The Intercept did an excellent. piece on Sugar Grove in 2017. I still have contacts at the Green Bank. Observatory. and they'd know if the NSA was no longer. active in Sugar Grove and nobody has. said they're not. So hope this has shed. some light on this for you guys and that. again is from Steven Kersey author of. The Quiet Zone. >> Very cool. I wrote him back too and said. it's always neat to hear from the person.

who literally wrote the book on whatever. it is we're talking about, you know? >> Always great. >> Thanks a lot, Steven. I'm not sure how. that how we missed that that the NSA. actually hadn't cleared out although now. I think about it, it's probably easy to. do. >> Yeah. >> I think we were manipulated by the. [music] NSA. >> Probably. >> If you want to be like Steven Kersey and. write to us, you don't have to be an. expert. That's okay. You can send your. email to stuffpodcast@iheartradio.com. >> Stuff You Should Know is a production of.

iHeart Radio. For more podcasts my. iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio. app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you. listen to your favorite shows. [music].